I Was At The Game..

[NYCowboy22]

Some obeservations:

- Julius Jones can cut on a dime and not lose any speed. He gets hit behind the line and still pushes for a positive gain. You can really tell he is going to be something special in person. He hits the holes quicker than I thought from watching on TV. If he has a little bit of room to run you can expect a big gain. Another thing I noticed is that he sheds tacklers and really churns after he is hit. I am definetly happy we picked him up in this draft over the other backs REGARDLESS of the Buffalo pick.

- Vinny did a pretty decent job of managing the game, but some of his decisions are just down right stupid. I watched him throw into double and triple coverage with other men open. He has no pocket presence and is a very easy target. That fumble cost us the game along with the pass interference call.

- A lot of New York fans are low lives.. They cheered when Keyshawn went down.

- Crayton did a decent job, I think he can turn into something. He is certaintly better than Randall.

- As much as I like Frazier, he gave up too many plays and penalties. I think we really need to address the corner position now that I got to watch in person. Bring in somebody like Lucas, no need to draft any more corners.

- Newman played well under the given circumstances. Needs to cut down on stupid penalties.

- If a few key holes were filled in on defense, they would be a lot more efficient.

- I lost my voice when Julius punched it into the end zone. Giants fans around me were not happy with my constant first down hand signals in their faces etc.. I also embarrassed my girlfriend by screaming so much.

- I am guilty of screaming at Vinny "don't get up, stay down!" after he got sacked with 10 seconds to throw.

Was an awesome game, just wish they could have held on.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Some obeservations:
- I lost my voice when Julius punched it into the end zone. Giants fans around me were not happy with my constant first down hand signals in their faces etc.. I also embarrassed my girlfriend by screaming so much.

-

Thanks for the recap. I think they might have shown you on tv, there was some guy in a jersey doing that when we got first downs. Maybe it was you.

[Irving Cowboy]

Better you than me...

I know if I had been there I would have been arrested for choking some poor sap thinking it was either Vinny or Zimmer... I know I just about did at the Seattle game and they WON that one...

To let a rookie tear through your D with a minute left to win the first game of his career is absolutely abhorrent... I am physically sick... those fans should be glad I wasn't there because I would have puked on someone.

[Hoods]

Thanks for the recap. I think they might have shown you on tv, there was some guy in a jersey doing that when we got first downs. Maybe it was you.Hahah, I was just about to post that!

I saw the dude and was cracking up, made me want to jump up off my coach and give my best Mike Irvin impression too! :yourock:

[Crown Royal]

Regarding Vinny's pocket presence...

I was at training camp for about a week this summer - took lots of notes that I am now re-reading.

One that jumps out at me a few times is very telling - here is an excerpt:

"On the first play of the day, Vinny looked very good in the pocket. His footwork was masterful as he sidestepped a rusher. However, by the afternoon he looked timid, seemed to lose concentration on his ability to move in the pocket. He looks Hutchinson-esque."

One more:

"Vinny holds the ball VERY long. He seems to think he has a lot longer in the pocket than he does - if they were hitting, I fear he would be scrambled. He must find the hole in the defense, the open receiver and get the ball out quicker."

I specifically remember one or 2 plays where he held the ball for more than 8 seconds.

I also remember a play tonight (1st or 2nd Q), where we picked up an 8 man blitz. The QB MUST find a receiver one his drop back in this situation - and throw as soon as he plants. Vinny tried to move forward and was sacked.

Big no no.

[Crown Royal]

To let a rookie tear through your D with a minute left to win the first game of his career is absolutely abhorrent
Tiki Barber isn't a rookie....

...oh - you meant Manning. No - he was tearing through us through the first 44 minutes. That last drive was all Tiki.

[Jack Burton]

Some obeservations:

- Julius Jones can cut on a dime and not lose any speed. He gets hit behind the line and still pushes for a positive gain. You can really tell he is going to be something special in person. He hits the holes quicker than I thought from watching on TV. If he has a little bit of room to run you can expect a big gain. Another thing I noticed is that he sheds tacklers and really churns after he is hit. I am definetly happy we picked him up in this draft over the other backs REGARDLESS of the Buffalo pick.

- Vinny did a pretty decent job of managing the game, but some of his decisions are just down right stupid. I watched him throw into double and triple coverage with other men open. He has no pocket presence and is a very easy target. That fumble cost us the game along with the pass interference call.

- A lot of New York fans are low lives.. They cheered when Keyshawn went down.

- Crayton did a decent job, I think he can turn into something. He is certaintly better than Randall.

- As much as I like Frazier, he gave up too many plays and penalties. I think we really need to address the corner position now that I got to watch in person. Bring in somebody like Lucas, no need to draft any more corners.

- Newman played well under the given circumstances. Needs to cut down on stupid penalties.

- If a few key holes were filled in on defense, they would be a lot more efficient.

- I lost my voice when Julius punched it into the end zone. Giants fans around me were not happy with my constant first down hand signals in their faces etc.. I also embarrassed my girlfriend by screaming so much.

- I am guilty of screaming at Vinny "don't get up, stay down!" after he got sacked with 10 seconds to throw.

Was an awesome game, just wish they could have held on.

Thanks for the first hand account of the game. It was an interesting read.

[Dale]

Tiki Barber isn't a rookie....

...oh - you meant Manning. No - he was tearing through us through the first 44 minutes. That last drive was all Tiki.

I agree. This is being built up as Manning's game, but in reality Barber was the one that killed us late.

Just like he did in the earlier meeting this year with his 58-yard run that put the nail in the coffin.

[Crown Royal]

I agree. This is being built up as Manning's game, but in reality Barber was the one that killed us late.

Just like he did in the earlier meeting this year with his 58-yard run that put the nail in the coffin.
I prefer to think that the bogus roughing the kicker penalty on Keith Davis immediately before that run was the nail in the coffin.

Or the sideline pass to Terry Glenn where he was ruled out of bounds, when he was obviously pushed out, but was called incomplete (per Theisman, the rule should be changed anyway.........that tool.)

But yeah - the Tiki play was the one thing the Giants did right to win that game.

[Hoods]

Regarding Vinny's pocket presence...

I was at training camp for about a week this summer - took lots of notes that I am now re-reading.

One that jumps out at me a few times is very telling - here is an excerpt:

"On the first play of the day, Vinny looked very good in the pocket. His footwork was masterful as he sidestepped a rusher. However, by the afternoon he looked timid, seemed to lose concentration on his ability to move in the pocket. He looks Hutchinson-esque."

One more:

"Vinny holds the ball VERY long. He seems to think he has a lot longer in the pocket than he does - if they were hitting, I fear he would be scrambled. He must find the hole in the defense, the open receiver and get the ball out quicker."

I specifically remember one or 2 plays where he held the ball for more than 8 seconds.

I also remember a play tonight (1st or 2nd Q), where we picked up an 8 man blitz. The QB MUST find a receiver one his drop back in this situation - and throw as soon as he plants. Vinny tried to move forward and was sacked.

Big no no.
Good post. I've been a Vinny fan for a while, not necessarily because he's played great (which he hasn't), but due to his class. He hasn't really killed us and I think having a veteran QB really allowed players such as Juice (JuJo), Witten, and Crayton; Copper develop. Not only that, but I think he really brought out the best in Keyshawn.

Some times people are such in a hurry to rush the development of a rookie, they forget entirely about the rest of the team.

"BUT BILLS GOTTA PLAYY THE YUNG GUYSS!!!". The way I see it, by playing Vinny, he improved a bunch of young guys careers for the better. Can you see Julius having the comeback year that he had if Henson was here struggling? On top of that, what if we were playing from behind and had to rely purely on passing? Not only does that make us one dimensional (making it even harder to pass for Henson), but it studs Julius' development. I won't even get into how bad our pass blocking is and how Henson would be dead by the end of the seasod. Of course, most of this is based on the assumption that Henson struggled (which I'm sure 90%+ of the rookie QBs do), but I hope this gives another perspective.

[Irving Cowboy]

I agree. This is being built up as Manning's game, but in reality Barber was the one that killed us late.
True, but WHY did Tiki have a great last minute?? Because the Dallas D knew that Eli wasn't afraid to throw on them so they could not play the run as tight as they should have...

[zagnut]

Good post. I've been a Vinny fan for a while, not necessarily because he's played great (which he hasn't), but due to his class. He hasn't really killed us and I think having a veteran QB really allowed players such as Juice (JuJo), Witten, and Crayton; Copper develop. Not only that, but I think he really brought out the best in Keyshawn.

Some times people are such in a hurry to rush the development of a rookie, they forget entirely about the rest of the team.

"BUT BILLS GOTTA PLAYY THE YUNG GUYSS!!!". The way I see it, by playing Vinny, he improved a bunch of young guys careers for the better. Can you see Julius having the comeback year that he had if Henson was here struggling? On top of that, what if we were playing from behind and had to rely purely on passing? Not only does that make us one dimensional (making it even harder to pass for Henson), but it studs Julius' development. I won't even get into how bad our pass blocking is and how Henson would be dead by the end of the seasod. Of course, most of this is based on the assumption that Henson struggled (which I'm sure 90%+ of the rookie QBs do), but I hope this gives another perspective.

Well said. You are on a roll tonight.

Parcells job is to develop the entire team. Henson's time will come when he's ready and not at the expense of everyone else. Vinny's not great, but it would have been nearly impossible for the team to assess or develop Tucker, Gurode, Al Johnson, Allen, Flo, Julius, Barnes, Bryant/Morgan, Crayton, Witten, etc., with Henson at the helm. Did Barnes blow the blocking assignment or did Henson not recognize the defense? Did Morgan make the right adjustment or did Henson miss him? Instead, we go into the offseason without any false impressions of what we have on offense.