Do You Think McNabb is a top 5 QB in the League?

[AJM1613]

I know, this sounds like I'm trolling for a fight, in some ways I am (Trickblue, that Eagle's troll picture probably will come up). If you don't want to post on it you don't have too. I am just getting so annoyed with all these people saying that he isn't that good.

Best record in the league the last 4 years.

Look at these all time stats:
4th in TD-Interception Ratio (1.87)
3rd in Interception Percentage (2.31)

Now the last 10 games of last year:
184-288 (63.9%) for 2362 14 TD, 5 Int. 97.2 QB rating.

Best QB rating over that period of time in the NFL.

In 2002 he was on pace to beat Mike Vick in rushing yards by a QB until he got hurt.

107 yards rushing vs. Green Bay in the playoffs (record).

Please only well thought out posts. No smack talk.

[trickblue]

Thanks for saving me the trouble... http://chad.hendrix.net/images/smileys/wink.gif

[blindzebra]

I know, this sounds like I'm trolling for a fight, in some ways I am (Trickblue, that Eagle's troll picture probably will come up). If you don't want to post on it you don't have too. I am just getting so annoyed with all these people saying that he isn't that good.

Best record in the league the last 4 years.

Look at these all time stats:
4th in TD-Interception Ratio (1.87)
3rd in Interception Percentage (2.31)

Now the last 10 games of last year:
184-288 (63.9%) for 2362 14 TD, 5 Int. 97.2 QB rating.

Best QB rating over that period of time in the NFL.

In 2002 he was on pace to beat Mike Vick in rushing yards by a QB until he got hurt.

107 yards rushing vs. Green Bay in the playoffs (record).

Please only well thought out posts. No smack talk.

Maybe he should become a RB, his INTs are low because of the offensive system. He is also a 57% passer in a WCO which is REALLY low.

McNabb is top 10, but no way he is top 5.

[TruBlueCowboy]

The Randall Cunningham debate went over 10 pages, I'm predicting 20 for this baby. :eek:

[Az Lurker]

Manning, Brady, Favre, McNair, Pennington, Cullpepper and Trent Green all better QB's then McNabb

[dbair1967]

I know, this sounds like I'm trolling for a fight, in some ways I am (Trickblue, that Eagle's troll picture probably will come up). If you don't want to post on it you don't have too. I am just getting so annoyed with all these people saying that he isn't that good.

Best record in the league the last 4 years.

Look at these all time stats:
4th in TD-Interception Ratio (1.87)
3rd in Interception Percentage (2.31)

Now the last 10 games of last year:
184-288 (63.9%) for 2362 14 TD, 5 Int. 97.2 QB rating.

Best QB rating over that period of time in the NFL.

In 2002 he was on pace to beat Mike Vick in rushing yards by a QB until he got hurt.

107 yards rushing vs. Green Bay in the playoffs (record).

Please only well thought out posts. No smack talk.

sorry but McNabb is a good player, but he isnt a great QB. Until he improves his ability to throw the ball down field with accuracy he'll always be limited. He is good at the underneath stuff but his downfield passing game is pretty lousy. He's also been mediocre at best in the postseason and when he was out for an extended period of time a no talent QB like AJ Feeley was able to guide the team just as well

I'd put McNabb in the middle of the pack somewhere when it comes to overall QB skills...

David

[AJM1613]

Manning, Brady, Favre, McNair, Pennington, Cullpepper and Trent Green all better QB's then McNabb
Okay...

Manning: Yes.
Brady: No not nearly as good, a Trent Dilfer, average.
McNair: Yes.
Farve: Yes.
Pennington: No way!
Cullpepper: About the same stats as McNabb, more Ints. Great offense.
Trent Green: Pass me some of that s***.

How can you put Green on that list and not Hasselback?

[chicago JK]

I have been a fan of McNabb since college and last offseason I was a strong supporter that he was one of the top 5 qb's in the league. I was wrong last year. He really struggled most of the year. So as of now, I don't rank him in the top 5. This is a big year for him. If he struggles again and doesn't play to his potential than things could get real interesting.

[AJM1613]

I have been a fan of McNabb since college and last offseason I was a strong supporter that he was one of the top 5 qb's in the league. I was wrong last year. He really struggled most of the year. So as of now, I don't rank him in the top 5. This is a big year for him. If he struggles again and doesn't play to his potential than things could get real interesting.
His struggles were do to injury, just like Farve's. You don't write off Farve as one of the best QBs ever because of an injury do you?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, if he's not, he's pretty close IMO. If it were me, I'd probably say my top 5 were something like:

Manning
Brady
McNair
Favre

and then I think McNabb, Culpepper and Arron Brooks are all right there. JMO

[AJM1613]

sorry but McNabb is a good player, but he isnt a great QB. Until he improves his ability to throw the ball down field with accuracy he'll always be limited. He is good at the underneath stuff but his downfield passing game is pretty lousy. He's also been mediocre at best in the postseason and when he was out for an extended period of time a no talent QB like AJ Feeley was able to guide the team just as well

I'd put McNabb in the middle of the pack somewhere when it comes to overall QB skills...

David
AJ Feeley got us a 2nd rounder, you only gave a 3rd for Henson.
A no talent QB?

McNabb has a good deep ball, just awful WRs (before now) to throw the ball to last year.

Mediocre at best in the postseason?? He had 2 bad games (due to injury), and 5 good games.

Feeley's games were won by the defense. I like the guy but he really wasn't too efficent when he did play. Koy ran the offense well.

[AJM1613]

Well, if he's not, he's pretty close IMO. If it were me, I'd probably say my top 5 were something like:

Manning
Brady
McNair
Favre

and then I think McNabb, Culpepper and Arron Brooks are all right there. JMO
Brady shouldn't be on that list.

[TheSkaven]

I know, this sounds like I'm trolling for a fight, in some ways I am (Trickblue, that Eagle's troll picture probably will come up). If you don't want to post on it you don't have too. I am just getting so annoyed with all these people saying that he isn't that good.

Best record in the league the last 4 years.


Best record in the league, you can thank your defense for that AJM.

Did you know that Quincy Carter threw more touchdowns last year than Donovan McNabb? Carter also threw for more yards and had a better completion percentage. This, against a quarterback who runs the WCO.

Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you either, but we're talking about the quarterback who made the term "worm balls" famous. There is no questioning his athleticism, but his accuracy is a big question mark.

While his reluctance to throw the ball down the field may mean he has a great career TD-INT ratio, it also means he misses open receivers and his teams do not score points.

On top of all that, he seems to now be injury prone. He's not very outspoken, not a good leader in the locker room.

I'll give you 10 quarterbacks better than him, in no particular order. You tell me which ones that you think he is better than. They are Manning, Favre, Vick, Culpepper, Brady, Hassleback, Trent Green, McNair, Bulger, and Bledsoe.

And to be honest, I'd say maybe to: Quincy Carter, Brad Johnson, Kerry Collins and A.J. Feely.

[blindzebra]

Okay...

Manning: Yes.
Brady: No not nearly as good, a Trent Dilfer, average.
McNair: Yes.
Farve: Yes.
Pennington: No way!
Cullpepper: About the same stats as McNabb, more Ints. Great offense.
Trent Green: Pass me some of that s***.

How can you put Green on that list and not Hasselback?

Man, you are such a HOMER.

Brady has a better QB rating and has won 2 Super Bowls, Dilfer...average, not even close. Comparing Brady to Dilfer is like compaing McNabb to Carter.

Every QB on that list has better numbers than McNabb, so that makes them better.

If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question.

[Q_the_man]

I know, this sounds like I'm trolling for a fight, in some ways I am (Trickblue, that Eagle's troll picture probably will come up). If you don't want to post on it you don't have too. I am just getting so annoyed with all these people saying that he isn't that good.

Best record in the league the last 4 years.

Look at these all time stats:
4th in TD-Interception Ratio (1.87)
3rd in Interception Percentage (2.31)

Now the last 10 games of last year:
184-288 (63.9%) for 2362 14 TD, 5 Int. 97.2 QB rating.

Best QB rating over that period of time in the NFL.

In 2002 he was on pace to beat Mike Vick in rushing yards by a QB until he got hurt.

107 yards rushing vs. Green Bay in the playoffs (record).

Please only well thought out posts. No smack talk.Yep, he is a top 5 QB, though I hate to say it. Now he has TO, but still has no running game.

I would take Mcnabb over every QB in the league except for Maybe Manning, Vick and Mcnair....

[TheSkaven]

McNabb has a good deep ball, just awful WRs (before now) to throw the ball to last year.

LOL sorry, I live in Philadelphia and that's all I hear. Well I tell you, this season all bets are off. He isn't a top 5 QB, but he does have a top 3 WR this year. If McNabb puts up a 57% completion percentage with less than 20 TDs this year, birds fans will not be able to use the WR card this year.

All that I have to say is I will be in Texas Stadium in November for the MNF game. I can't wait. :D

[JR HELFRICK]

If he ever loses his mobility, then what do you have? Pocket passer? NIMO

[AJM1613]

Best record in the league, you can thank your defense for that AJM.
Defense didn't play too well last season after all of the injuries.

Did you know that Quincy Carter threw more touchdowns last year than Donovan McNabb? Carter also threw for more yards and had a better completion percentage. This, against a quarterback who runs the WCO.
[/quote]
He also had less interceptions than Carter. Our offense also scored more points. Cater had a better completion percentage than him, by .3 percent!! 57.5 to 57.8. He had a 63.9 completion percentage the last 10 games.

While his reluctance to throw the ball down the field may mean he has a great career TD-INT ratio, it also means he misses open receivers and his teams do not score points.

you don't watch too many Eagles games do you? 2nd in the NFC 2 years ago in points scored. Last 10 games last year we averaged 28 points a year.

On top of all that, he seems to now be injury prone. He's not very outspoken, not a good leader in the locker room.

He isn't injury prone, did you see the two plays he got hurt on? One was a sack from Arizona, he was bent over backwards and his leg snaped (yes he played the rest of the game, 4TD passes). The other time he hit his thumb on another player's helmet. In the NFCCG he was hit late in the ribs. Any QB would be hurt with that happening to them.

I'll give you 10 quarterbacks better than him, in no particular order. You tell me which ones that you think he is better than. They are Manning, Favre, Vick, Culpepper, Brady, Hassleback, Trent Green, McNair, Bulger, and Bledsoe.

And to be honest, I'd say maybe to: Quincy Carter, Brad Johnson, Kerry Collins and A.J. Feely.
Manning: Yes.
Farve: Yes.
Vick: No.
Culpepper: No.
Brady: No.
Hassleback: Maybe.
Green: No.
McNair: Yes.
Bulger: No.
Bledsoe: :eek: No.

Carter: No.
Johnson: No.
Collins: no.
Feeley: No :eek:

[AJM1613]

If he ever loses his mobility, then what do you have? Pocket passer? NIMO
How did Cunningham do in Minnesota??

[JR HELFRICK]

How did Cunningham do in Minnesota??

1 year wonder? Did not do it very long.

[AJM1613]

LOL sorry, I live in Philadelphia and that's all I hear. Well I tell you, this season all bets are off. He isn't a top 5 QB, but he does have a top 3 WR this year. If McNabb puts up a 57% completion percentage with less than 20 TDs this year, birds fans will not be able to use the WR card this year.

All that I have to say is I will be in Texas Stadium in November for the MNF game. I can't wait. :D
Fair enough. But TD passes don't mean anything, its how many TD his team scores. Get to the one and the team runs it, it is the same as throwing for a TD.

[peacockaja]

I fail to see how you could say Brady isn't a better QB. When it comes down to it, most people will judge a QB on the number of superbowls he's won.

[AJM1613]

1 year wonder? Did not do it very long.
Only because Minnesota wanted a younger QB to take over the next year, to go with Moss.

How did McNabb do Vs. Arizona??

[AJM1613]

I fail to see how you could say Brady isn't a better QB. When it comes down to it, most people will judge a QB on the number of superbowls he's won.
Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino??

[Verdict]

McNabb is all hype, little substance.

[AJM1613]

Yep, he is a top 5 QB, though I hate to say it. Now he has TO, but still has no running game.

I would take Mcnabb over every QB in the league except for Maybe Manning, Vick and Mcnair....
6th best rushing game in the league last year. I Like the rest of your points.

[AJM1613]

Man, you are such a HOMER.

Brady has a better QB rating and has won 2 Super Bowls, Dilfer...average, not even close. Comparing Brady to Dilfer is like compaing McNabb to Carter.

Every QB on that list has better numbers than McNabb, so that makes them better.

If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question.
So, Kurt Warner is the best QB of all time? If stats are everything.

[JR HELFRICK]

Lets ask Rush L. Just kidding....

[peacockaja]

Marino was a great QB, so was Jim Kelly.They never won the big one. This is how a lot of people will remember them jmo. :D

[AJM1613]

Marino was a great QB, so was Jim Kelly.They never won the big one. This is how a lot of people will remember them jmo. :D
I will bet everything I own that McNabb will win the superbowl in his career. Maybe not this year, but eventually.

[Bizwah]

I voted yes.......

But I'm not sure if it means the same today, as it did ten years ago.

I see two elite QBs in pro-football right now.

Payton Manning and Steve McNair No other young QBs can match them right now.

Favre is getting older, but still putting up good numbers. I put him just a notch below Manning and McNair.

Tom Brady isn't flashy, but he wins. He doesn't have the strongest arm, or the best feet.....but he wins. He has that little something extra. I feel he has a lot of Aikman qualities.

I feel McNabb is a few steps below the other four. I think we're seeing McNabb begin to plateau, although he could surprise us with a real threat at WR. He clearly is the most dangerous runner.

Just my opinions......

[chicago JK]

This is beyond comical..


Don't bring up Super bowls to Philly fans in debates. The superbowl is a mystical, fairy tale place to most of their fans. Some believe that the Super Bowl does exist, but can't really be sure until they see one themselves. Most have been waiting a lifetime and have all but given up. LOL.

[peacockaja]

Maybe they have all the parts to do it this year. Injuries, luck, etc. all play a part

[TheSkaven]

you don't watch too many Eagles games do you? 2nd in the NFC 2 years ago in points scored. Last 10 games last year we averaged 28 points a year.

I do watch the Eagles (and other NFC East teams), but only when the game doesn't conflict with the Cowboys. I will concede that the Eagles ended the regular season great last year. Was it 9 straight wins? But how much of that was Brian Westbrook? That kid is really good.

A better question might be, what were McNabb's numbers like once Westbrook went down? I'll tell you, a 50.8% completion rate, 2 TDs, 3 INTs, and a 58.6 quarterback rating.

My only point was that he's a West Coast offense QB and has a 57% completion percentage, which is not very good. And yes, it's only a percentage point below Quincy Carter, but I never said Quincy was a top 5 quarterback. :)

I'm sorry, unless McNabb can improve his accuracy (maybe if he works out with his teammates instead of training in Arizona) he'll never be a top 5 quarterback in this league.

Tell you what, let's wait and see how McNabb does this season. I think having Owens at WR and Westbrook at RB should eliminate any ambiguity.

[trickblue]

I will bet everything I own that McNabb will win the superbowl in his career. Maybe not this year, but eventually.

Just for my own "need to know"... just what all do you own? http://chad.hendrix.net/images/smileys/wink.gif

[dbair1967]

QB's I'd take right now before McNubb if I were putting together a team, in no particular order:

AFC East- Tom Brady, C. Pennington
AFC North- Carson Palmer...yeah I know he hasnt played a single game yet, but the guy is an extremely talented passer and is replacing Kitna with no contest, and Kitna had a great yr last yr
AFC South- McNair, Manning, Leftwich...again, Leftwich based mroe on potential, but he is a much better passer than McNubb and has a good group of skill people around him
AFC West- Trent Green
NFC East-today I would say McNabb over any of the other NFC East guys, but Drew Henson may change that opinion sooner rather than later...far more talented pure passer
NFC South- nobody
NFC North- maybe Favre and Culpepper
NFC West- Hasselback

thats 10 guys I'd definitely take before McNabb, and maybe 11 or 12 by the time mid season rolls around

David

[JR HELFRICK]

I would like to thank Trickblue and AJM, they have kept it interesting all day. Good job !!!! I still say, take away his legs and you have a Q. Carter. Well.. mabey not that bad. He is a for sure top 15.

[AJM1613]

I voted yes.......

But I'm not sure if it means the same today, as it did ten years ago.

I see two elite QBs in pro-football right now.

Payton Manning and Steve McNair No other young QBs can match them right now.

Favre is getting older, but still putting up good numbers. I put him just a notch below Manning and McNair.

Tom Brady isn't flashy, but he wins. He doesn't have the strongest arm, or the best feet.....but he wins. He has that little something extra. I feel he has a lot of Aikman qualities.

I feel McNabb is a few steps below the other four. I think we're seeing McNabb begin to plateau, although he could surprise us with a real threat at WR. He clearly is the most dangerous runner.

Just my opinions......
I agree with Farve, Manning, and McNair. I don't think Brady is that good, that is just not how I measure player greatness. Just because the Patriots won the Superbowl last year, does that mean that Tyrone Pool is better than Champ Bailey, or Christan Fauria is better than Tony Gonzalaz, or Eugene Wilson better than Dawkins and Williams, or Antowain Smith better than Tomlinson.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Brady shouldn't be on that list.


LOL, don't embarrass yourself.

In three years, he has thrown for an average of 3409 yards per season. His completion percentage is right at 62%. His TD to Int ration is 23 TDs vs 12.6 Ints on average. He's the best big game QB since Troy Aikman. He doesn't choke in big games. If anything, he gets better.

On the other hand, McNabb has thrown for an average of 2914 yards per season. A average completion percentage of about 58%. His TD/INT totals over the same time frame read as follows, 19.3 TDs vs 9.6 Ints. He is not consistantly accurate and he has fallen short on 3 (or is it 4 now) NFC title games.

Brady has posted superior numbers in vertually every catogory with the exception of TD to INT ratio and in all honesty, Brady will probably be better there as well. Inlcude in those numbers for McNabb is a single season with only 6 INTs. This is not the norm for McNabb. He's certainly show far better results then McNabb. All this with basically two fewer years starting experience.

If your going to say that McNabb is a top 5 QB, then by any measurable standard, you have to say that Brady is thus far the superior QB. How can he not belong on this list?

[AJM1613]

QB's I'd take right now before McNubb if I were putting together a team, in no particular order:

AFC East- Tom Brady, C. Pennington
AFC North- Carson Palmer...yeah I know he hasnt played a single game yet, but the guy is an extremely talented passer and is replacing Kitna with no contest, and Kitna had a great yr last yr
AFC South- McNair, Manning, Leftwich...again, Leftwich based mroe on potential, but he is a much better passer than McNubb and has a good group of skill people around him
AFC West- Trent Green
NFC East-today I would say McNabb over any of the other NFC East guys, but Drew Henson may change that opinion sooner rather than later...far more talented pure passer
NFC South- nobody
NFC North- maybe Favre and Culpepper
NFC West- Hasselback

thats 10 guys I'd definitely take before McNabb, and maybe 11 or 12 by the time mid season rolls around

David

Even you, a Cowboys fan, will think/admitt that McNabb is a top 4 QB by midseason.

[RatisBeast]

Simply No.

[BillsFan]

I respect McNabb but no I don't think he's one of the top 5 in the league.

1)Brady - nobody even close

2)Manning

3)McNair

4)Pennington - Doesn't get the respect yet but i'm pleased some of you guys list him.

5)Brett Favre - Not sure he's still top 5 but I like him better than the next guy.

You also could say Michael Vick, Trent Green, Hasslebeck could be considered ahead of Donavan. I'd like to say my buddy Bledsoe should be there as well but I can be unbiased in these things and agree he's probably slipped outta the top 10.


BillsFan

[AJM1613]

LOL, don't embarrass yourself.

In three years, he has thrown for an average of 3409 yards per season. His completion percentage is right at 62%. His TD to Int ration is 23 TDs vs 12.6 Ints on average. He's the best big game QB since Troy Aikman. He doesn't choke in big games. If anything, he gets better.

On the other hand, McNabb has thrown for an average of 2914 yards per season. A average completion percentage of about 58%. His TD/INT totals over the same time frame read as follows, 19.3 TDs vs 9.6 Ints. He is not consistantly accurate and he has fallen short on 3 (or is it 4 now) NFC title games.

Brady has posted superior numbers in vertually every catogory with the exception of TD to INT ratio and in all honesty, Brady will probably be better there as well. Inlcude in those numbers for McNabb is a single season with only 6 INTs. This is not the norm for McNabb. He's certainly show far better results then McNabb. All this with basically two fewer years starting experience.

If your going to say that McNabb is a top 5 QB, then by any measurable standard, you have to say that Brady is thus far the superior QB. How can he not belong on this list?
I repeat. Do you think Kurt Warner is the greatest QB of all time? I have seen every Patriots game and I have seen Brady play, he isn't that good. I watched them all two years ago, the 9-7 year, and he looked awful.

McNabb has been starting for 4 years (4 Probowl, 3 division titles, 3 playoffs).

[AJM1613]

Just for my own "need to know"... just what all do you own? http://chad.hendrix.net/images/smileys/wink.gif
Enough....

[Az Lurker]

Okay...

Manning: Yes.
Brady: No not nearly as good, a Trent Dilfer, average.
McNair: Yes.
Farve: Yes.
Pennington: No way!
Cullpepper: About the same stats as McNabb, more Ints. Great offense.
Trent Green: Pass me some of that s***.

How can you put Green on that list and not Hasselback?

sorry, just forgot Hasselback, and as for Trent Green...look at some of the numbers he put up in games, how many games over 300 yards did he have last season, and aside from Gonzales his recieving core is quite ordinary.

[AJM1613]

I respect McNabb but no I don't think he's one of the top 5 in the league.

1)Brady - nobody even close

2)Manning

3)McNair

4)Pennington - Doesn't get the respect yet but i'm pleased some of you guys list him.

5)Brett Favre - Not sure he's still top 5 but I like him better than the next guy.

You also could say Michael Vick, Trent Green, Hasslebeck could be considered ahead of Donavan. I'd like to say my buddy Bledsoe should be there as well but I can be unbiased in these things and agree he's probably slipped outta the top 10.


BillsFan
He is the 4th best. Take Pennington and Brady off the list and you will be good. You could not say Trent Green, Bledsoe, or Vick(maybe next year, but not now).

[JR HELFRICK]

Enough....


lol !!!! . Now this is entertainment

[BillsFan]

He is the 4th best. Take Pennington and Brady off the list and you will be good. You could not say Trent Green, Bledsoe, or Vick(maybe next year, but not now).


It's kinda funny how you break down every response you get.

No my list is fine and THAT is my opinion whether you like it or not.

Mcnabb is a good QB but he can't carry Tom Brady's jock strap. McNabb hasn't lead the Eagles to anything. It's about achievements on the football field and until McNabb leads Philly to a championship he'll just be another guy running around out there throwing balls in the dirt.

BillsFan

[Az Lurker]

Brady is absolutly one of the best QB's right now, to argue otherwise is pretty silly. Pennington is also the most accurate passer since Aikman, possibly since Montana, when he's running the show the Jets are contenders, when he's out, they can't win.

McNabb is good, top 10 when healthy, but he's still overrated (though less so then Vick), and chokes in the big games whe he's needed most

[Hostile]

He is the 4th best. Take Pennington and Brady off the list and you will be good. You could not say Trent Green, Bledsoe, or Vick(maybe next year, but not now).
Can I ask you a question? Why do you feel that your opinions are valid and no one else's are. I'll take Brady over McNabb any day. Does that make me wrong? No, it means that is my opinion. How do you get to vote yourself judge of right and wrong opinions? Does it come with a little stamp like a Notary Public? Shouldn't you put that in your sig line if you have it? I mean, how else will we know?

[blindzebra]

I repeat. Do you think Kurt Warner is the greatest QB of all time? I have seen every Patriots game and I have seen Brady play, he isn't that good. I watched them all two years ago, the 9-7 year, and he looked awful.

McNabb has been starting for 4 years (4 Probowl, 3 division titles, 3 playoffs).

In 2002 Brady completed 62%, had 3700 yards, 28 TDs and only 14 INTs. I'd take that kind of awful.

You are a freakin troll, now go away!

[TheSkaven]

On the other hand, McNabb has thrown for an average of 2914 yards per season. A average completion percentage of about 58%. His TD/INT totals over the same time frame read as follows, 19.3 TDs vs 9.6 Ints. He is not consistantly accurate and he has fallen short on 3 (or is it 4 now) NFC title games.


Excellent response. AJM, he's showing some homerism and that's fine, we've all done that ourselves. But the number do not lie.

A 57% completion percentage in the west coast offense, worse than Carter's last year?? Well that's because he has no receivers, you see. :)

Only 16 TDs last year, 17 the year before! Well, that's because of INJURIES, you see.

But Tom Brady, who arguably plays in the best division in football, leads his team on a 14 game winning stream, possesses 2 superbowl titles, threw for more yards, has more touchdowns, a better completion percentage by 6% and he's not top 5? That's a joke.

And, by the way, who are Brady's receivers? Deion Branch? Troy Brown? WHO? And Antowain Smith is sure as heck no Brian Westbrook.

OK /endrant

[ABQCOWBOY]

I repeat. Do you think Kurt Warner is the greatest QB of all time? I have seen every Patriots game and I have seen Brady play, he isn't that good. I watched them all two years ago, the 9-7 year, and he looked awful.

McNabb has been starting for 4 years (4 Probowl, 3 division titles, 3 playoffs).

I believe the best QB I've ever seen is Montana. Do you know why? Montana meet the challange. The bigger the game, the better he was. I could put his numbers up against anybodies and they would compare but really, you play this game to win championships, not to go to Probowls, win division titles or get to the playoffs. That's the problem with Philly, they miss the big picture.

For the record, you can take games played and match stats with Brady or you can go off the last three years or really any way you want to look at it and he's still a more productive player then McNabb.

When you get right down to it, the only stat that matters is SuperBowl wins. Brady 2, McNabb 0

EOS

[BillsFan]

Excellent response. AJM, he's showing some homerism and that's fine, we've all done that ourselves. But the number do not lie.

A 57% completion percentage in the west coast offense, worse than Carter's last year?? Well that's because he has no receivers, you see. :)

Only 16 TDs last year, 17 the year before! Well, that's because of INJURIES, you see.

But Tom Brady, who arguably plays in the best division in football, leads his team on a 14 game winning stream, possesses 2 superbowl titles, threw for more yards, has more touchdowns, a better completion percentage by 6% and he's not top 5? That's a joke.

And, by the way, who are Brady's receivers? Deion Branch? Troy Brown? WHO? And Antowain Smith is sure as heck no Brian Westbrook.

OK /endrant


Excellent Post.


You know I wish I could somehow stick Brady and New England in the NFC EAST and i'll take McNabb and the Eagles over here in the AFC EAST.

sigh..

[JR HELFRICK]

Can I ask you a question? Why do you feel that your opinions are valid and no one else's are. I'll take Brady over McNabb any day. Does that make me wrong? No, it means that is my opinion. How do you get to vote yourself judge of right and wrong opinions? Does it come with a little stamp like a Notary Public? Shouldn't you put that in your sig line if you have it? I mean, how else will we know?

Very well said. I, myself do not like a scrambling QB, so my opion is not going to be very high. Not becouse he is an Eagle, just becouse I like pocket passers. He is very effective in his playing style. Just not my type QB. Does not make me wrong.

[Sarge]

This has quickly become a Cowboys/Eagles board and it sucks quite frankly.

[JR HELFRICK]

10 years from now... Marino, Kelly, Mcnabb,.... All great QB'S, but NO Superbowl wins.

[trickblue]

10 years from now... Marino, Kelly, Mcnabb,.... All great QB'S, but NO Superbowl wins.

How do you really feel Junior...

[Derinyar]

Manning, McNair, Farve(past accomplishments and ability to dominate a game), Brady, Pennington, Vick, and Hassleback. Right now I would take any of those above McNabb. I would also consider Eli Manning, Big Ben, and Ramsey. The primary purpose of a QB is to distribute the ball via the pass, McNabbs weak spot as a QB. McNabb is a good QB, would love to have him here as opposed to QC, but not at that contract.

McNabb is a better passer than when he came into the league, but when his legs leave him, hes going to go quickly to being one of the worst QB's in the league. Accuracy isn't up to snuff.

[Hostile]

This has quickly become a Cowboys/Eagles board and it sucks quite frankly.
I tend to agree. I think that maybe this belongs in the other forum.

[BigDPlayer]

So, Kurt Warner is the best QB of all time? If stats are everything.

OK Man, how do you judge the position?

Obviously not by stats as evidenced by your response above.
Obviously not by SuperBowls as evidenced by your response when pressed on your (insane) stance that Brady isn't better based on his SB rings (you said something like Trent Dilfer being better than Marino).

So, if SuperBowl rings aren't the criteria, and stats aren't the criteria, what exactly are the criteria?

[MichaelWinicki]

Brady shouldn't be on that list.


Brady shouldn't be on that list?

What are you smokin?

[MichaelWinicki]

OK Man, how do you judge the position?

Obviously not by stats as evidenced by your response above.
Obviously not by SuperBowls as evidenced by your response when pressed on your (insane) stance that Brady isn't better based on his SB rings (you said something like Trent Dilfer being better than Marino).

So, if SuperBowl rings aren't the criteria, and stats aren't the criteria, what exactly are the criteria?


We when know the answer he'll change the question.

[MichaelWinicki]

Can I ask you a question? Why do you feel that your opinions are valid and no one else's are. I'll take Brady over McNabb any day. Does that make me wrong? No, it means that is my opinion. How do you get to vote yourself judge of right and wrong opinions? Does it come with a little stamp like a Notary Public? Shouldn't you put that in your sig line if you have it? I mean, how else will we know?

You know Hos, this makes me realize the quarterbacking situation right now in the NFL is really ****ty if we're even considering McNabb as a top 5.

[BigDPlayer]

Man you are blind, literally simply have some sort of personal grudge or something against Tom Brady, if you think he's not a better QB than McNabb.

I mean dude virtually EVERY statistic he's over your boy. And the only stat that REALLY COUNTS: 2 SuperBowl wins. And that last one he LED that team to victory in the final seconds of the SuperBowl! I mean... man that is clutch. I was watching that game breathless, and Brady was making clutch throws on the money to win it all.

Man, he has the rings, and he has the stats that PROVE him the better QB. In all seriousness, if you cannot admit that Tom Brady is a better QB, based on the numbers AND rings, and refuse to admit it because you "watched him play" and didn't get that certain special man-crush you have on McNabb... dude if you can't admit Brady the better QB you have like ZERO credibility.

[AJM1613]

OK Man, how do you judge the position?

Obviously not by stats as evidenced by your response above.
Obviously not by SuperBowls as evidenced by your response when pressed on your (insane) stance that Brady isn't better based on his SB rings (you said something like Trent Dilfer being better than Marino).

So, if SuperBowl rings aren't the criteria, and stats aren't the criteria, what exactly are the criteria?
Highest QB rating of all time.

[blindzebra]

Highest QB rating of all time.

So I guess you just put Warner ahead of McNabb, too.

[MichaelWinicki]

So I guess you just put Warner ahead of McNabb, too.


Of course... you have too.

[RedskinsFanInTX]

I will bet everything I own that McNabb will win the superbowl in his career. Maybe not this year, but eventually.You might be right...............
















If he goes to another team!http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/043.gif

[AJM1613]

So I guess you just put Warner ahead of McNabb, too.
And Montana, Aikman, Young, Farve, Marino, Elway ect...

[Captain Hoagie]

I think so..... his accuracy is suspect. But it's dead on when he needs it to be... (i.e 4th and 26) This was also his worst year. If not Top 5... certainly Top 7.

[drp07644]

<------- Haha

[BrAinPaiNt]

<------- Haha


Are you laughing at your name?

[drp07644]

no im laughing at this.


Your avatar has been deleted.

I found it funny how right after I speak about eagles trolls on the board you have to try and push it a tad.

Once again do not think it will be tolerated on the forum.

Next time will be your last time.

If you want to post on the dallas forum then show a little respect to the forum....this is NOT an eagles forum....you are a guest and you should remember that.

Thank You.
__________________

/\
llll
llll
llll
Haha!!! btw, cowboys suck. bunch of jailbirds that arent goin anywhere. this forum is like a dictatorship. anything anti-cowboy pro another team is banned. thank god the eagle board aint like that. and i forgot, this board aint even their official board LOL. and u act this was made up by the NFL. losers. BTW eagles MB won 2 awards for having the best content and the best overall website. EAGLES OWN THE NFL AND THE DALLAS COWGIRLS FOREVER!!!!

[drp07644]

brianpaint PMed me that. lol.

[blindzebra]

brianpaint PMed me that. lol.

I guess you don't grasp the meaning of PRIVATE. Maybe I should rephrase that, you being a fan of brotherly love and all, that sounds too much like grasping privates.

[drp07644]

I guess you don't grasp the meaning of PRIVATE. Maybe I should rephrase that, you being a fan of brotherly love and all, that sounds too much like grasping privates.


lol, actually i live in New York and am ONLY a fan of the eagles. hate the 76ers. dont care about hockey or baseball. KNICKS 4 LIFE!!!! so y dont u go back to being a fan of that texas team. texas is known for being a queer state, like san antonio. maybe u r one of them???

[blindzebra]

lol, actually i live in New York and am ONLY a fan of the eagles. hate the 76ers. dont care about hockey or baseball. KNICKS 4 LIFE!!!! so y dont u go back to being a fan of that texas team. texas is known for being a queer state, like san antonio. maybe u r one of them???

Nice snappy comeback. Not unlike such classics as, "I'm rubber and you're glue," or, "I know you are, but what am I."

[drp07644]

Nice snappy comeback. Not unlike such classics as, "I'm rubber and you're glue," or, "I know you are, but what am I."


hmmm, never heard im rubber and you are glue. makes no sense either, but coming from a cowboy fan, thats expected.

[BrAinPaiNt]

hmmm, never heard im rubber and you are glue. makes no sense either, but coming from a cowboy fan, thats expected.


How old are you?
This is not a slam at all....but the I am rubber you are glue line is an OLD line so maybe you have not heard of it.

I am rubber you are glue...what you say bounces of me and sticks to you....it was dumb and lame then just as it is now...which was kind of the posters intent to say the smack talk was dumb.

Either way it IS an older saying that you may never have heard of...and in the long run you are not missing much by not knowing it.

[drp07644]

im 18 and have never heard it.

[Az Lurker]

wait, are all the eagles trolls 18? this could explain an awful lot...

[AJM1613]

wait, are all the eagles trolls 18? this could explain an awful lot...
I'm not a troll and I'm not 18. So no it doesn't explain anything.

[Az Lurker]

I'm not a troll and I'm not 18. So no it doesn't explain anything.

You're a homer, not a troll, you weren't included in that statement

[AJM1613]

You're a homer, not a troll, you weren't included in that statement
I'm not a homer, I just tell it like it is and it upsetts you because it doesn't have the birds crashing for the 4th time this year.

[Az Lurker]

I'm not a homer, I just tell it like it is and it upsetts you because it doesn't have the birds crashing for the 4th time this year.

No, not quite, I think the Eagles are the best team in the NFC East untill proven otherwise. That being said, I do however think that they have a big hole a CB, their linebackers are subpar, they lost their only power back, and McNabb is over-rated and inaccurate.

All things said and done, I think the Eagles fall from grace this year will not be a result of them getting worse (since I think the additions of TO and Kearse, who were both injured last year, keep them at least as good), but from everyone else getting better, particularly the Cowboys improving on the D last year (which was ranked #1 overall, and #2 in scoring), improvement along the Oline, RB, and WR possitions. Last year the Cowboys and Eagles were a closer match then you give them credit for being; they did split the games 1-1, both got knocked out of the playoffs by Carolina, and going into week 17 Cowboys were still in the race for the division. The Eagles won the division last year, but they didn't dominate it like they had previously.

Your continued assertions that everything is sunshide, daydreams, and domination in Philly is what makes you a homer.

[AJM1613]

No, not quite, I think the Eagles are the best team in the NFC East untill proven otherwise. That being said, I do however think that they have a big hole a CB, their linebackers are subpar, they lost their only power back, and McNabb is over-rated and inaccurate.

All things said and done, I think the Eagles fall from grace this year will not be a result of them getting worse (since I think the additions of TO and Kearse, who were both injured last year, keep them at least as good), but from everyone else getting better, particularly the Cowboys improving on the D last year (which was ranked #1 overall, and #2 in scoring), improvement along the Oline, RB, and WR possitions. Last year the Cowboys and Eagles were a closer match then you give them credit for being; they did split the games 1-1, both got knocked out of the playoffs by Carolina, and going into week 17 Cowboys were still in the race for the division. The Eagles won the division last year, but they didn't dominate it like they had previously.

Your continued assertions that everything is sunshide, daydreams, and domination in Philly is what makes you a homer.
Our two starting CBs (Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown) played very well last year. They were 2-0 when playing together and held their oposition to a 72.29 QB rating. They also went 7-3 with one of them starting and held their oposition to a 80.84 QB rating. From watching the games from last season, I can tell that Sheppard will turn out to be a very good #1 CB, and Brown should turn out to be a decent #2. I think that Brown is a little bit of a question mark, but Sheppard will turn out fine as the #1. If we do get McKenzie, truthfully I think that there will be a little competition between Sheppard and McKenzie for the #1 CB spot, and McKenzie is a very good CB. If we don't improve on this position in FA I think that Ware will take over the starting CB spot in 2005 from Brown. Ware has shown in college that he is extremely similar to Bobby Taylor (who I believe was a product of the system) and I think that he will turn out to be just as good.

Our line backers are average, I agree, but I don't think that they are any worse than they were in 2003. Our MLB (Mark Simoneau) is good and our WLB (Nate Wayne) is a very good LB, he just never learned the system last year and he looked confused. Our new SLB (Dhani Jones) should be fine, he is quicker and more athletic than Emmons but he lacks the cover skills Emmons had on the TEs. If we lost anything at this position it wasn't much and the healthy defensive line should make them look better.

Duce Staley was our third HB last year and wasn't a powerback. Buckhalter is just as good as him at power running and Westbrook is a better receiver. Duce very rarely ran the ball much last year. I don't think that we will lose anything here. I don't know if you have been following NFLE but our 3rd/4th HB lead the league in all purpose and rushing yards. I watched him play last week and he really looked good. He should be fine to get a couple carries a game. Our grind it our HB this year is FB/HB Thomas Tapeh, our 5th round pick. I don't know how good he will do this year but he looks good on film.

McNabb is not overrated, and may be inaccurate but he still brought us to 3 straight NFC Division Championships and 4 straight play off seasons.

Philadelphia will dominate this division again. Our offense did well against you when McNabb was healthy. 19-35 248 yards and 3 TD. Also Buckhalter had 115 yards on 13 attempts. That is a 8.8 ypa.

I just don't seeing you catching up this year, if we (meaning McNabb) are healthy. Just look at the games where he was healthy and the games he wasn't, now imagine that for a season (64% completion rate, 5 int in 10 games and a 97.2 QB rating). If he can play like that for a season, then yes we will dominate the division again.

[blindzebra]

Our two starting CBs (Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown) played very well last year. They were 2-0 when playing together and held their oposition to a 72.29 QB rating. They also went 7-3 with one of them starting and held their oposition to a 80.84 QB rating. From watching the games from last season, I can tell that Sheppard will turn out to be a very good #1 CB, and Brown should turn out to be a decent #2. I think that Brown is a little bit of a question mark, but Sheppard will turn out fine as the #1. If we do get McKenzie, truthfully I think that there will be a little competition between Sheppard and McKenzie for the #1 CB spot, and McKenzie is a very good CB. If we don't improve on this position in FA I think that Ware will take over the starting CB spot in 2005 from Brown. Ware has shown in college that he is extremely similar to Bobby Taylor (who I believe was a product of the system) and I think that he will turn out to be just as good.

Our line backers are average, I agree, but I don't think that they are any worse than they were in 2003. Our MLB (Mark Simoneau) is good and our WLB (Nate Wayne) is a very good LB, he just never learned the system last year and he looked confused. Our new SLB (Dhani Jones) should be fine, he is quicker and more athletic than Emmons but he lacks the cover skills Emmons had on the TEs. If we lost anything at this position it wasn't much and the healthy defensive line should make them look better.

Duce Staley was our third HB last year and wasn't a powerback. Buckhalter is just as good as him at power running and Westbrook is a better receiver. Duce very rarely ran the ball much last year. I don't think that we will lose anything here. I don't know if you have been following NFLE but our 3rd/4th HB lead the league in all purpose and rushing yards. I watched him play last week and he really looked good. He should be fine to get a couple carries a game. Our grind it our HB this year is FB/HB Thomas Tapeh, our 5th round pick. I don't know how good he will do this year but he looks good on film.

McNabb is not overrated, and may be inaccurate but he still brought us to 3 straight NFC Division Championships and 4 straight play off seasons.

Philadelphia will dominate this division again. Our offense did well against you when McNabb was healthy. 19-35 248 yards and 3 TD. Also Buckhalter had 115 yards on 13 attempts. That is a 8.8 ypa.

I just don't seeing you catching up this year, if we (meaning McNabb) are healthy. Just look at the games where he was healthy and the games he wasn't, now imagine that for a season (64% completion rate, 5 int in 10 games and a 97.2 QB rating). If he can play like that for a season, then yes we will dominate the division again.

Very BIG if. You keep forgetting the Owens factor. McNabb's overall rating will go down with Owens.

Philly has been throwing to their backs and TEs a lot, that keeps comp% up and INTs down. Even throwing short a lot McNabb still has a sub par comp %.

With Owens demanding the ball, McNabb will be forced to throw the ball outside and deeper than normal. The results with McNabb's accuracy problems a lower comp% and more INTs.

My prediction for McNabb:

54%, 7.01 YPA, 19 TDs and 14 INTs.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I guess you don't grasp the meaning of PRIVATE. Maybe I should rephrase that, you being a fan of brotherly love and all, that sounds too much like grasping privates.

I do not know how I missed this earlier.

I guess maybe because most of this thread has been boring :D

However He will no longer worry about posting what was PMed to him from a mod.

He just doesn't get it and I will not put up with trolls for very long....and that goes double for eagle trolls.

He has been banned.

[Tio]

nananana nananana hey, hey, hey...goodbye....

[AJM1613]

Very BIG if. You keep forgetting the Owens factor. McNabb's overall rating will go down with Owens.

Philly has been throwing to their backs and TEs a lot, that keeps comp% up and INTs down. Even throwing short a lot McNabb still has a sub par comp %.

With Owens demanding the ball, McNabb will be forced to throw the ball outside and deeper than normal. The results with McNabb's accuracy problems a lower comp% and more INTs.

My prediction for McNabb:

54%, 7.01 YPA, 19 TDs and 14 INTs.
Personally I think that it will be the exact opposite. I think that because of having a good reciever, McNabb's ratings will go up. Owens is a west coast offense type of reciever, he doesn't go long too often (Pinkston had more long catches than him last year), Pinkston does. I don't know if you have watched every Eagle game last season from Week 7+, but Thrash and Pinkston couldn't get open, causing McNabb to throw it in the dirt more than he would if he had decent reciever. Actually, almost all of McNabb's "dirt balls" were before he got his cast off his thumb or when he was obviously throwing it away.

McNabb's five primary recievers last year were Thrash (49), Westbrook (37), Staley (36), Pinkston (36), Mitchell (35), and our TEs had a combined 50 catches (Smith (27) and Lewis (23)).

He did spread the ball around a lot, it wasn't like he kept on throwing to his HBs, they were just his two best recievers, so those high lights were the ones you saw on SC.

Last year McNabb only had 11 interceptions, 6 in the first 6 games and 5 in the last 11. I can remember all five of those interceptions:

1 ball that he threw away, bouched off of his own player's foot (Smith) and into Aaron Beasley's hands.

1 was a ball that hit Ritchie in the hands, bounced off of Ritchie's hands, and landed in Mike Rucker's hands.

The other three were his fault. 1 by Zach Thomas (great catch) and 2 by Tony Parrish.

McNabb has stated repeatedly that he wouldn't force the ball to TO, and I believe him because he very rarely forces balls to anyone.

My Prediction for McNabb
64% 26 TDs and 11 interceptions.

[Armageden Eagle]

I know, this sounds like I'm trolling for a fight, in some ways I am (Trickblue, that Eagle's troll picture probably will come up). If you don't want to post on it you don't have too. I am just getting so annoyed with all these people saying that he isn't that good.

Best record in the league the last 4 years.

Look at these all time stats:
4th in TD-Interception Ratio (1.87)
3rd in Interception Percentage (2.31)

Now the last 10 games of last year:
184-288 (63.9%) for 2362 14 TD, 5 Int. 97.2 QB rating.

Best QB rating over that period of time in the NFL.

In 2002 he was on pace to beat Mike Vick in rushing yards by a QB until he got hurt.

107 yards rushing vs. Green Bay in the playoffs (record).

Please only well thought out posts. No smack talk.

I can honestly say that I don't think you are trolling in the least bit. You are merely quoting facts about DM that are true and accurate. I applaud you!

Keeping it real is what Eagles fans do best (no smack talk intended)!

Good post!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got your back

[Hip]

His struggles were do to injury, just like Farve's. You don't write off Farve as one of the best QBs ever because of an injury do you?

Please rethink your comment.
You are comparing McNob to Farve!

[Hip]

Okay so the thing that burns me is that people seem to believe that seeing a talented WR in some seasons makes them a great WR.
I understand that to become a great WR that you need that talent but there is so much more to being a legendary talent.
Owens, with no argument from me is a great talent but what about his contribution to the Niners of late.
Get me the damn ball is not productive.
Tell me what you think?

[JR HELFRICK]

I can honestly say that I don't think you are trolling in the least bit. You are merely quoting facts about DM that are true and accurate. I applaud you!

Keeping it real is what Eagles fans do best (no smack talk intended)!

Good post!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got your back

No, your laying across his back.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

No, your laying across his back.

Hel (may I call you Hel?),

Your sage advice will not go unobserved :cool: ?

[JR HELFRICK]

Hel (may I call you Hel?),

Your sage advice will not go unobserved :cool: ?

Just kidding Eagle... I know nothing about you or your friend, I just know you are Eagles Fans and thats not enough for me to hate on you...PEACE...
Oh Yea, you can call me Hel.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Is McNabb in the top five of any good statistical QB categories?

(by good I mean not the INT, fumbles or sacks...whether it be his fault or others).

I ask this I really do not know and do not have the time right now to look it up as I am busy at work and just checking in.

I think he has been a decent QB...I do not think he is as good as some want to hype him up to be...yet I think he is far better then some would make out to be.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Here's I'm talking about (in case you're asking)! Throughout this post, I've been seeing pass ratio and percentages, comments like "he's got a strongs arm," the "lhe can throw the long pass," etc. But none of that will gage/define a complete quarterrback. With the exception of maybe one or two of you -- you're all describing the top passers in the NFL!

Someone, probably a Dallas fan (because this post is predominantly Cowboy),
gave the following top-5 list -- my picks underneath in bold letters...

1). Manning - No major problem, however he should be #2 (great year)
1) Brady - should be #1 (he did win the AFC/S-Bowl Championship)

2). Brady - should be #1 in my book
2). Manning in his prime -- I'll expect a repeat performance

3). Favre - No! Great QB back in the day, getting old, will retire soon!
3). McNabb - McNabb is still a young QB! He hasn't reach his potential

4). McNair - He's good! But scramble ability is limited. You know I'm right!
4). Culpepper - A strong arm and a great receiver is a great combo!

5). Pennington
5). I'll Let you pick this one (wouldn't rule out the two Dallas QBs) :rolleyes:


Here's my point ...McNabb is a young QB. His name is mentioned along with top-five QBs in the NFL (IMHO). Everyone of you may not like McNabb because he's an Eagle, but you cannot deny that ...

He is physical; because he can block, and not afraid to stay in the pocket to wait on a receiver to get in the open (you can't buy that kind of patience).

He's smart - he can read a defense, and he Knows his way around the clock (timeouts, 2-minute drill etc), and he will call an audible in a heart beat; that's why we're so good on the road.

He's getting stronger each year; along with his experience. Last, but not the least, he's a multiple threat with his scrambling, blocking, running, and pAssing abilities -- oh, and he's dayam fast!

So when you make your rebuttals, and I know you shall, keep this in mind -- A QB is not just a passer, he's much more -- that spells McNabb! No diggity -- No doubt, he's in the top 5! :cool:

[BrAinPaiNt]

I just asked a question about stats.

It is a team game most of the time...so sometimes individual stats may be telling for an individual.

Now this is not always the case as it may depend on the system...the surrounding players...and there are always other intangibles that can not be measured in stats.

Of course you could have always used one of the stats like he is the starting QB for a team that has an excellent win/loss record over the last few years...that would surely put him in the top five of QBs.

However to me I will still say that he is better then many give him credit for...and also not as good as others give him credit for being.

I think he is a heck of a leader...however I do think he has issues with accuracy and field vision.
Sure he has been surrounded by terrible WRs and a limited game plan...but there have been times I have seen his WRs running down the field and wide open...yet he does not see them or does not deliver the ball dead on.

Now that is not something that I see on an average basis...I would problably say it was just the opposite...however I have seen it.

I do not know if I would put him top 5....but if not he would be damn close IMO.

[AJM1613]

If McNabb finishes the season with over 16 interceptions, under 18 TD (if he plays in all the games, combined R/P) or lower than a 58% compeltion percentage than I will concede that McNabb isn't top 5.

I predict a 63.9% completion percentage, 22 TD, and 8 interceptions because he has proven he can do it with Pinkston and Thrash, so I would hope he can do it with Owens.

[BillsFan]

If McNabb finishes the season with over 16 interceptions, under 18 TD (if he plays in all the games, combined R/P) or lower than a 58% compeltion percentage than I will concede that McNabb isn't top 5.

I predict a 63.9% completion percentage, 22 TD, and 8 interceptions because he has proven he can do it with Pinkston and Thrash, so I would hope he can do it with Owens.


Wasn't his completion percentage 57.5 last year? Has he even been close to 60 in his career? Prepare to be letdown on that 64% completion percentage.

[BillsFan]

Here's I'm talking about (in case you're asking)! Throughout this post, I've been seeing pass ratio and percentages, comments like "he's got a strongs arm," the "lhe can throw the long pass," etc. But none of that will gage/define a complete quarterrback. With the exception of maybe one or two of you -- you're all describing the top passers in the NFL!

Someone, probably a Dallas fan (because this post is predominantly Cowboy),
gave the following top-5 list -- my picks underneath in bold letters...

1). Manning - No major problem, however he should be #2 (great year)
1) Brady - should be #1 (he did win the AFC/S-Bowl Championship)

2). Brady - should be #1 in my book
2). Manning in his prime -- I'll expect a repeat performance

3). Favre - No! Great QB back in the day, getting old, will retire soon!
3). McNabb - McNabb is still a young QB! He hasn't reach his potential

4). McNair - He's good! But scramble ability is limited. You know I'm right!
4). Culpepper - A strong arm and a great receiver is a great combo!

5). Pennington
5). I'll Let you pick this one (wouldn't rule out the two Dallas QBs) :rolleyes:


Here's my point ...McNabb is a young QB. His name is mentioned along with top-five QBs in the NFL (IMHO). Everyone of you may not like McNabb because he's an Eagle, but you cannot deny that ...

He is physical; because he can block, and not afraid to stay in the pocket to wait on a receiver to get in the open (you can't buy that kind of patience).

He's smart - he can read a defense, and he Knows his way around the clock (timeouts, 2-minute drill etc), and he will call an audible in a heart beat; that's why we're so good on the road.

He's getting stronger each year; along with his experience. Last, but not the least, he's a multiple threat with his scrambling, blocking, running, and pAssing abilities -- oh, and he's dayam fast!

So when you make your rebuttals, and I know you shall, keep this in mind -- A QB is not just a passer, he's much more -- that spells McNabb! No diggity -- No doubt, he's in the top 5! :cool:


No McNair in your top 5? Sheesh poor Steve can't get any respect.

You wanna dig up Mcnairs and McNabbs stats from last year? It's pretty funny to compare. Take a look.

Donavan hasn't reached McNairs level.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

No McNair in your top 5? Sheesh poor Steve can't get any respect.

You wanna dig up Mcnairs and McNabbs stats from last year? It's pretty funny to compare. Take a look.

Donavan hasn't reached McNairs level.

You either didn't read my post carefully, or you're just ignoring my comments. Let me say It in another way. Here's how I explained the choice to my next door neighbors son -- he's 10 yrs old -- he understood ...

one guy is getting older and he doesn't move around very well anymore, because he's been beaten up through the years.

but the other guy is young and getting stronger, and moves around better than most people that does the same job.

Which one do you want to be on your team?

I'm Not being facious, but I just want you to understand that my decision wasn't only based on your stats, or who threw the ball successfully, or whose receiver made the most completions.

I'm talking baout reality man! Listen, if it makes you feel better, stay with your own list--see you in the playoffs -- or not! :rolleyes:

[Tio]

You either didn't read my post carefully, or you're just ignoring my comments. Let me say It in another way. Here's how I explained the choice to my next door neighbors son -- he's 10 yrs old -- he understood ...

one guy is getting older and he doesn't move around very well anymore, because he's been beaten up through the years.

but the other guy is young and getting stronger, and moves around better than most people that does the same job.

Which one do you want to be on your team?

I'm Not being facious, but I just want you to understand that my decision wasn't only based on your stats, or who threw the ball successfully, or whose receiver made the most completions.

I'm talking baout reality man! Listen, if it makes you feel better, stay with your own list--see you in the playoffs -- or not! :rolleyes:
First of all mcnabb can't hold mcnair's jock without bursting into ashes.

And secondly, Mcnair is still above average in movement.

Thirdly Eagles act like mobility is half the part of being a qaurter back. Its more like one fifth. If it was as important as eagles fans make it out to be, Mike Vick would be the no.1 qaurterback in the game...

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

First of all mcnabb can't hold mcnair's jock without bursting into ashes

Since I didn't see a "smiley face" in your post, I'll assume you're serious! Let's put the jock straps down just for a minute and discuss this out maturely. McNair is probably going into the Hall at some point in time in the future. It would be unfair to compare McNabb to McNair (obviously you are). "Alright, lunger" I'll be your huckleberry ...

Steve McNair LaTreal McNair ...is 31 years old, he was drafted into the NFL in 1995. He's 6'2" tall, and weighs 235lbs; he's got 10 years experience in the NFL. McNair made the pro bowl in 2000, to the Pro Bowl to replace Brian Griese (shoulder surgery) but was sidelined for the game due to his own shoulder injury.

Donovan Jamal McNabb ...is 27 years old, he was draft into the NFL in 1999.
He's 6' 2" tall, and weighs 235lbs; he's got 5 years experience in the NFL. McNabb has been selected to his 4th straight Pro Bowl; he has 6 years experience in the NFL.

Here's what the NFL had to say about McNair ...

No Pro Bowler

Rare is the veteran player who commands much recognition laboring for a first-year expansion franchise and even rarer, NFL history has indicated, is one who is selected for the Pro Bowl.

"I'm quite sure a lot of players on this team deserved it, but that's how it works,'' quarterback Steve McNair said after the AFC South leaders were ignored in Pro Bowl balloting announced Thursday

Within the league, McNair has set lofty standards for some of today’s younger “mobile quarterbacks.” One such protégé, Donovan McNabb, has said of McNair, “Steve has defined how a quarterback can suffer through adversity and overcome it. He’s a great role model and a guy I’ve talked to plenty of times about his improvement in the league, the things he worked on and how he asserted himself as one of the top quarterbacks in this league.” McNair leads NFL QBs in rushing yards since 1995 (3,034), and only McNabb (1,884) has more than McNair’s 1,594 yards since 1999. He became the first quarterback since the 1970 NFL merger to rush for eight touchdowns in a season on two occasions (1997 and 1999), and his 1997 rushing total of 674 yards was, at the time, the third-highest rushing total by a quarterback in NFL history behind Randall Cunningham; an Eagle (942 yards in 1990) and Bobby Douglas (968 yards in 1972).

But you know what RW. This dosen't prove a thing. I actually agree with you if you're sayIng that Steve is a top rated Qb (on his way out); McNabb is a Top-rated QB on His way in!

So let's just compromise by sayIng, you have your Opinion, while I have my opinion! :cool:

[ChrisFul]

McNair took a while to amass the stats needed for probowl consideration due to the offense that the Titans ran all the way up until 2000/2001. Before then, McNair was sorta like Aikman but without the pinpoint accuracy: it wasn't a given he was going to break 3000 yards or threaten the 20 TD passing barrier. When the Titans stopped handing the ball to George on every other play, McNair took off.

And until McNabb stops choking in Conference Title games, no, he cannot hold McNair's jock.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

...And until McNabb stops choking in Conference Title games, no, he cannot hold McNair's jock.

What a surprise response! McNabb's not choking in NFC East Division Games; is he? Besides who wants to hold McNair's jock anyway :eek: !

[Tio]

Since I didn't see a "smiley face" in your post, I'll assume you're serious! Let's put the jock straps down just for a minute and discuss this out maturely. McNair is probably going into the Hall at some point in time in the future. It would be unfair to compare McNabb to McNair (obviously you are). "Alright, lunger" I'll be your huckleberry ...

Steve McNair LaTreal McNair ...is 31 years old, he was drafted into the NFL in 1995. He's 6'2" tall, and weighs 235lbs; he's got 10 years experience in the NFL. McNair made the pro bowl in 2000, to the Pro Bowl to replace Brian Griese (shoulder surgery) but was sidelined for the game due to his own shoulder injury.
Mcnair was brought along much slower because the titans wanted to still contend. Besides we are looking at the better recent qaurterback and Mcnair was an MVP, while mcnabb got the 3rd selection off of name alone.
Donovan Jamal McNabb ...is 27 years old, he was draft into the NFL in 1999.
He's 6' 2" tall, and weighs 235lbs; he's got 5 years experience in the NFL. McNabb has been selected to his 4th straight Pro Bowl; he has 6 years experience in the NFL.
Which is it 5 or 6??? And i already told you, the last one was off name alone


Here's what the NFL had to say about McNair ...

No Pro Bowler

Rare is the veteran player who commands much recognition laboring for a first-year expansion franchise and even rarer, NFL history has indicated, is one who is selected for the Pro Bowl.

"I'm quite sure a lot of players on this team deserved it, but that's how it works,'' quarterback Steve McNair said after the AFC South leaders were ignored in Pro Bowl balloting announced Thursdayso he wasn't selected in the probowl that year, so what???

Within the league, McNair has set lofty standards for some of today’s younger “mobile quarterbacks.” One such protégé, Donovan McNabb, has said of McNair, “Steve has defined how a quarterback can suffer through adversity and overcome it. He’s a great role model and a guy I’ve talked to plenty of times about his improvement in the league, the things he worked on and how he asserted himself as one of the top quarterbacks in this league.” McNair leads NFL QBs in rushing yards since 1995 (3,034), and only McNabb (1,884) has more than McNair’s 1,594 yards since 1999. He became the first quarterback since the 1970 NFL merger to rush for eight touchdowns in a season on two occasions (1997 and 1999), and his 1997 rushing total of 674 yards was, at the time, the third-highest rushing total by a quarterback in NFL history behind Randall Cunningham; an Eagle (942 yards in 1990) and Bobby Douglas (968 yards in 1972).[quote]again so what? I conceded Mcnabb is a better rusher, but mcnair is better at everything else. If all your argument is based on rushing, lets anount Vick as the greatest player of all time.
[quote]

But you know what RW. This dosen't prove a thing. I actually agree with you if you're sayIng that Steve is a top rated Qb (on his way out); McNabb is a Top-rated QB on His way in!

So let's just compromise by sayIng, you have your Opinion, while I have my opinion! :cool:
Steve isn't on his way out. He will be here another few years because unlike mcnabb, his game doesn't rely on his rushing...

Mcnair>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mcnabb

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Steve isn't on his way out...

Mcnair>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mcnabb

You are a shrewed arbitrator RW; with that kind of argument, I'm persuaded to see things your way :rolleyes:

It's clear now that McNair should be in the top 5 ;)

[BrAinPaiNt]

Take this with a grain of salt....however I have a friend that knew McNabb (he was a student at Syracuse while McNabb was there)....he says McNabb was a really nice guy but that he smelled like old bologna left out in the sun...and a strong smell of aqua velva/old spice mix to try and cover up the bologna smell.

Now Like I said take that with a grain of salt. :p

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Take this with a grain of salt....however I have a friend that knew McNabb (he was a student at Syracuse while McNabb was there)....he says McNabb was a really nice guy but that he smelled like old bologna left out in the sun...and a strong smell of aqua velva/old spice mix to try and cover up the bologna smell.

Now Like I said take that with a grain of salt. :p

Thanks Brain! You've just given away the strategy he used in college to avoid rushing linebackers. He's cleaned-up his act! :rolleyes:

[blindzebra]

If McNabb finishes the season with over 16 interceptions, under 18 TD (if he plays in all the games, combined R/P) or lower than a 58% compeltion percentage than I will concede that McNabb isn't top 5.

I predict a 63.9% completion percentage, 22 TD, and 8 interceptions because he has proven he can do it with Pinkston and Thrash, so I would hope he can do it with Owens.


My Prediction for McNabb
64% 26 TDs and 11 interceptions.

Which is it?

[AJM1613]

My Prediction for McNabb
64% 26 TDs and 11 interceptions.

Which is it?
Those numbers I pulled out of my a**, but the 63.9% completion percentage, 22 TD, and 8 interceptions I got from what he did last year.

[blindzebra]

Those numbers I pulled out of my a**, but the 63.9% completion percentage, 22 TD, and 8 interceptions I got from what he did last year.

You might want to check out Pasquarelli's look at Owens in the ESPN overview.

Your attack has been geared to a running/short passing game and that has worked. Owens will demand an altering of your offense that IMO will actually hurt McNabbs comp.% and INTs. He probably will approach 20 TDs, but he won't complete anywhere near 64% and I'd bet 12-14 INTs.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Every QB on that list has better numbers than McNabb, so that makes them better ...

Blind,

You've got some dynamite barometer for determining the quality of QBs :eek:
How many times do people have to tell you that you just cannot judge the quality of any player by their stats (rhetorical question)?

Don't give the answer, if you don't know the question :rolleyes:

[blindzebra]

Blind,

You've got some dynamite barometer for determining the quality of QBs :eek:
How many times do people have to tell you that you just cannot judge the quality of any player by their stats (rhetorical question)?

Don't give the answer, if you don't know the question :rolleyes:

You are right we should judge it by winning championship gam...oops, never mind.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

You are right we should judge it by winning championship gam...oops, never mind.

I'll give it to you Blind ...you're getting warmer if you're talking about the three consecutive NFC East Divisional Champoinship games. Oops, you're talking about Donovan McNabb and the Eagles. :rolleyes:

[blindzebra]

I'll give it to you Blind ...you're getting warmer if you're talking about the three consecutive NFC East Divisional Champoinship games. Oops, you're talking about Donovan McNabb and the Eagles. :rolleyes:

You play 6 DIVISIONAL games and 10 non-division games; they all add up to a divisional championship. There is no Divisional Championship GAME.

The division may come down to a head-to-head game, but that is a game FOR the division, not a divisional championship game.

Leave it to an Eagle fan to make up a championship. :rolleyes:

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

There is no Divisional Championship GAME. Leave it to an Eagle fan to make up a championship. :rolleyes:

Have it your way blind ...click your heels together and repeat "the Eagles are not the NFC East Divisional Champs ... :rolleyes:

BTW ...http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2003/12/07eaglescontrolnf.html

[Tio]

Have it your way blind ...click your heels together and repeat "the Eagles are not the NFC East Divisional Champs ... :rolleyes:

BTW ...http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/sports/2003/12/07eaglescontrolnf.htmlHow high are you??? I'm serious. There is no division championship game, just a division champ. Even if there was one, what good will it be?


BTW How do you judge a quarterback? It seems like a crazy way since you have Mcnabb over mcnair...

[TheSkaven]

I'll give it to you Blind ...you're getting warmer if you're talking about the three consecutive NFC East Divisional Champoinship games. Oops, you're talking about Donovan McNabb and the Eagles. :rolleyes:

Look, in Philadelphia you just don't hold your quarterbacks to a higher standard like we do in Dallas. That's understandable. Danny White is the Cowboys version of McNabb, a very good player but never able to get the team over the championship game hump. Of course, that Cowboys team was beaten in the championship game by several good teams while this Eagles team was beaten by the likes of the Carolina Panthers. But I digress...

McNabb is not going to get any respect from Cowboys fans until he wins the big game. It's as simple as that. You and I could spin statistics any way that you'd like. You can tell me he has a great TD-INT ratio. I can tell you that Quincy Carter had a higher completion percentage and threw more touchdowns.

All excuses are out the window this year. If McNabb gets hurt again, it's not an excuse, it proves he is a liability. And if the Eagles don't go to the big game this year with a top 3 receiver, the blame will fall at McNabb's feet.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

How high are you??? [B]There is no division championship game, just a division champ. Even if there was one, what good will it be? BTW How do you judge a quarterback? It seems like a crazy way since you have Mcnabb over mcnair...

RW,

I'm not intoxicated, but even if I was, your comment would have been just as contradictive to me then as it is now! ...

There is no division championship game, just a division champ.

Listen RW, I'm not trying to get into it with you by insulting you; besides, you know we see things differently from time-to-time -- especially when it comes down to things that apply to our respective teams. But you've got to know that a champ requires a contest/or struggle of sort (e.g., game, championship fight, championship match, etc), to determine the best in that particular component (e.g., lightweight/heavy weight champ, division champ, etc).

Having said that, I will compromise with you by saying, the Philadelphia Eagles did not win the NFC East Division ChampionsHip because theri is no such game -- but, the Eagles have been the NFC East Division Champs for 4 years :rolleyes:


[/QUOTE]Read my posts if you want to know why I chose McNabb over McNair.[/QUOTE]

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Look, in Philadelphia you just don't hold your quarterbacks to a higher standard like we do in Dallas. That's understandable. Danny White is the Cowboys version of McNabb, a very good player but never able to get the team over the championship game hump. Of course, that Cowboys team was beaten in the championship game by several good teams while this Eagles team was beaten by the likes of the Carolina Panthers. But I digress...

McNabb is not going to get any respect from Cowboys fans until he wins the big game. It's as simple as that. You and I could spin statistics any way that you'd like. You can tell me he has a great TD-INT ratio. I can tell you that Quincy Carter had a higher completion percentage and threw more touchdowns.

All excuses are out the window this year. If McNabb gets hurt again, it's not an excuse, it proves he is a liability. And if the Eagles don't go to the big game this year with a top 3 receiver, the blame will fall at McNabb's feet.


Understand.

[Anthrax]

Yous Are All ****in Idiots!

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Yous Are All ****in Idiots!

Don't hold back Anthrax, tell them how you really feel :rolleyes:

[Tio]

Yous Are All ****in Idiots!Lmao. What a stupid little egirl fan...

[blindzebra]

Yous Are All ****in Idiots!

No an idiot is someone that makes up a championship game in order to save face of their, NOT TOP 5 QB!

The even bigger idiot is someone who calls those, who called him on it, idiots. ;)

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

No an idiot is someone that makes up a championship game in order to save face of their, NOT TOP 5 QB!

The even bigger idiot is someone who calls those, who called him on it, idiots. ;)

Are you making this personal Blind? Just remember, we're not enemies; even if you are a Dallas Cowboys fan. :D

[Sarge]

Okay...

Manning: Yes.
Brady: No not nearly as good, a Trent Dilfer, average.
McNair: Yes.
Farve: Yes.
Pennington: No way!
Cullpepper: About the same stats as McNabb, more Ints. Great offense.
Trent Green: Pass me some of that s***.

How can you put Green on that list and not Hasselback?

Ask 100 NFL fans who thy'd rather have at QB, Brady or McNabb.

I guarantee you Brady gets the nod, easily.

[MichaelWinicki]

Ask 100 NFL fans who thy'd rather have at QB, Brady or McNabb.

I guarantee you Brady gets the nod, easily.


It wouldn't even be close.

[LaTunaNostra]

AJM, I've been avoiding this thread and will admit I only read the first page of it.

I think McNabb is one of the three QB playing today who can be expected to carry his offense if needed. Not carry the entire team, no player can consistently do that, altho Dan Marino and Joe Namath after 1970 in NY gave it a good shot. But this is a QB who can give you a purty good chance to win when a system breaks down or supporting personnel is lacking.

Three QBs who can "carry" their offense, and I don't mean in the Darren Woodson quote sense of a QB who can keep an O competitive enough to stay in a playoff hunt when a run game busts. I mean game breaking talent, talent which you don't necessarily want to utilize to its full risk , but it's there. And I don't mean just hot hands like that wonderful second half Jake Delhomme had in the SB. I mean the ultimate "it".

Favre, McNabb, and Vick.

Favre gave Holmgren many a conniption back in the day, with his free lancing ways. But Mike was wise enough to recognize where Brett's greatness lay. I know Andy Reid doesn't necessarily want to rely on McNabbs ability to make things happen, but he never missed a beat last season when Donovan had those early season woes. You don't bench a Donovan McNabb. I don't care what system Vick gets played in, wco or vertical attack, the center of your game planning is about what that kid can do.

Are the above three the current "best" QBs in the league? Consensus says that honor goes to Manning, McNabb, and Brady, and I will not argue it. For my money, tho, I'd take the other three. It's just the style of play, and the anticipation of all hell breaking loose, when these guys have got it on.

[BrAinPaiNt]

AJM, I've been avoiding this thread and will admit I only read the first page of it.

I think McNabb is one of the three QB playing today who can be expected to carry his offense if needed. Not carry the entire team, no player can consistently do that, altho Dan Marino and Joe Namath after 1970 in NY gave it a good shot. But this is a QB who can give you a purty good chance to win when a system breaks down or supporting personnel is lacking.

Three QBs who can "carry" their offense, and I don't mean in the Darren Woodson quote sense of a QB who can keep an O competitive enough to stay in a playoff hunt when a run game busts. I mean game breaking talent, talent which you don't necessarily want to utilize to its full risk , but it's there. And I don't mean just hot hands like that wonderful second half Jake Delhomme had in the SB. I mean the ultimate "it".

Favre, McNabb, and Vick.

Favre gave Holmgren many a conniption back in the day, with his free lancing ways. But Mike was wise enough to recognize where Brett's greatness lay. I know Andy Reid doesn't necessarily want to rely on McNabbs ability to make things happen, but he never missed a beat last season when Donovan had those early season woes. You don't bench a Donovan McNabb. I don't care what system Vick gets played in, wco or vertical attack, the center of your game planning is about what that kid can do.

Are the above three the current "best" QBs in the league? Consensus says that honor goes to Manning, McNabb, and Brady, and I will not argue it. For my money, tho, I'd take the other three. It's just the style of play, and the anticipation of all hell breaking loose, when these guys have got it on.

Scary thing is that for the last few years McNabb has had to play a role similar to what Randall Cunningham had to go through back in his Eagle days....Stong D and basically The QB being the offense.

Maybe that will change this year with TO.

[LaTunaNostra]

Scary thing is that for the last few years McNabb has had to play a role similar to what Randall Cunningham had to go through back in his Eagle days....Stong D and basically The QB being the offense.

Maybe that will change this year with TO.
BP what I'm hoping is that instead of TO bustin things wide open, his 'tude busts thing wide apart.

But yeah, McNabb with that kind of weapon ain't good.

[BrAinPaiNt]

BP what I'm hoping is that instead of TO bustin things wide open, his 'tude busts thing wide apart.

But yeah, McNabb with that kind of weapon ain't good.


He may indeed mess things up.

Now let's make no mistake that McNabb has a strong arm...which was in part one of the things that was said to be a weakness of Garcia.

HOWEVER we have also heard that McNabb did not have WRs that could get open therefore he hit the underneath routes with TEs and RBs more.

Well that may be the case most of the time...but even McNabb will say he will go through his progressions and it seems his progressions tend to be short to long...I think that is just what his system calls for.

I will also say that there have been multiple occasions where I seen one of his WRs running about wide open as you can get in this NFL day and age...and he does not even look that way...instead he throws the underneath stuff.

[AJM1613]

Ask 100 NFL fans who thy'd rather have at QB, Brady or McNabb.

I guarantee you Brady gets the nod, easily.
I changed my view on this situation. I think that you have to put Brady in front of McNabb at this point of his career because of what he has done, no matter what system he plays in. Warner was considered the best QB in the NFL from 1999-2001. Right now I would have to have my list like this:

1. McNair (best stats in the NFL and he wins more than Peyton, he doesn't have a ring but he at least got their).
2. Brady/Manning (not sure, Wins/Stats)
3. Brady/Manning
4. Favre
5. McNabb

You need to give Brady credit for his Super Bowl MVPs, even if I am not too impressed by his play.

If McNabb wins the Super Bowl this year I think that you have to move him up to 2 or 3 depending on his stats.

If Manning wins the Super Bowl I think that you have to move him up to 1.

If Brady wins the Super Bowl I think that you have to move him up to 1.

If Favre wins the Super Bowl than I think he will retire so we won't have to worry about ranking him any more. :)

JMO

[AJM1613]

He may indeed mess things up.

Now let's make no mistake that McNabb has a strong arm...which was in part one of the things that was said to be a weakness of Garcia.

HOWEVER we have also heard that McNabb did not have WRs that could get open therefore he hit the underneath routes with TEs and RBs more.

Well that may be the case most of the time...but even McNabb will say he will go through his progressions and it seems his progressions tend to be short to long...I think that is just what his system calls for.

I will also say that there have been multiple occasions where I seen one of his WRs running about wide open as you can get in this NFL day and age...and he does not even look that way...instead he throws the underneath stuff.
I don't think that McNabb trusted his starting wide receivers last year which can never be good. Pinkston caught a perfect 48 yard pass against the 49ers last season and fumbled it in the end zone. I can easily see why he wouldn't trust them. Believe me I wish the best for Pinkston this season but he really isn't that good, I hope Mitchell (who McNabb seems to trust) and McMullen (who really needs to mature) can fill Pinkston's spot if he struggles.

McNabb and Owens are in Arizona right now working on this. Will they conect? Maybe, but if they do than we should have a great offense.

Owens won't have a problem with this type of play because he will still get his yards. For Owens to get 100 catches he needs 6.25 receptions a game. With about 30 pass attempts and a 60% completion percentage, McNabb should have about 18 pass completions a game. Lets say Pinkston, Mitchell and Westbrook get about 35 catches a piece, and our TEs get a total of 50. That is 155. I think that Buckhalter, Ritchie, and McMullen should get less than 45 total catches (they only had 28 total last season).

This spread it around style of play can have a 100 catch player, Thrash had 48 last season and Staley had 37. Go from 9 receivers a game to 7.

I am not really sure if that answered your post, I was babling at the end. :D

[Tio]

I changed my view on this situation. I think that you have to put Brady in front of McNabb at this point of his career because of what he has done, no matter what system he plays in. Warner was considered the best QB in the NFL from 1999-2001. Right now I would have to have my list like this:

1. McNair (best stats in the NFL and he wins more than Peyton, he doesn't have a ring but he at least got their).
2. Brady/Manning (not sure, Wins/Stats)
3. Brady/Manning
4. Favre
5. McNabb

You need to give Brady credit for his Super Bowl MVPs, even if I am not too impressed by his play.

If McNabb wins the Super Bowl this year I think that you have to move him up to 2 or 3 depending on his stats.

If Manning wins the Super Bowl I think that you have to move him up to 1.

If Brady wins the Super Bowl I think that you have to move him up to 1.

If Favre wins the Super Bowl than I think he will retire so we won't have to worry about ranking him any more. :)

JMOYou forgot hassleback and culpepper, and by the time farvre and mcnair are gone, i suspect leftwich, palmer and vick will take over the reigns...

[AJM1613]

You forgot hassleback and culpepper, and by the time farvre and mcnair are gone, i suspect leftwich, palmer and vick will take over the reigns...
I didn't forget Hasselbeck or Culpepper and how can you say that about Palmer? :confused:

Leftwich will be great and top 5 but Vick is a question mark.

[Tio]

I didn't forget Hasselbeck or Culpepper and how can you say that about Palmer? :confused:

Leftwich will be great and top 5 but Vick is a question mark.Culpepper is absolutely the better qb. Ask any non eagle and they will tell you the same. Hassleback still needs another year too be top 5, but his last season was better than any mcnabb has had.

Palmer is a bit of a reach I guess, but vick is better than mcnabb in every aspect of the game.

[AJM1613]

Culpepper is absolutely the better qb. Ask any non eagle and they will tell you the same. Hassleback still needs another year too be top 5, but his last season was better than any mcnabb has had.

Palmer is a bit of a reach I guess, but vick is better than mcnabb in every aspect of the game.
Ask La Tuna Nostra or BP.

So Vicks 50% completion percentage (or 52.2 career) is better than McNabb's? Not quite buddy. He also has better receivers.

What about his 69.0 QB rating last season?
What about his career 76.3 QB rating?

So Vick's winning percentage is better than McNabb's?

So Vick's playoff winning percentage is better than McNabb's?

With a much better offense Vick's passing numbers are a lot worse than McNabb's. Actually McNabb was on pace to set the single season rushing record for a QB in 2002 before he got hurt, he had more yards than Vick.

[blindzebra]

Ask La Tuna Nostra or BP.

So Vicks 50% completion percentage (or 52.2 career) is better than McNabb's? Not quite buddy. He also has better receivers.

What about his 69.0 QB rating last season?
What about his career 76.3 QB rating?

So Vick's winning percentage is better than McNabb's?

So Vick's playoff winning percentage is better than McNabb's?

With a much better offense Vick's passing numbers are a lot worse than McNabb's. Actually McNabb was on pace to set the single season rushing record for a QB in 2002 before he got hurt, he had more yards than Vick.

Philly's offense has been MUCH better than Atlanta's. Their running game two years ago was about 50% Vick and their main receiver was a TE. They added Price last season, but Vick got hurt.

Although he is at this point below McNabb, Vick has more upside. I'd still take Culpepper and Green over McNabb, and Hasselbeck is close.

At best McNabb is 7th. Culpepper, Manning, McNair, Brady, Green, and Favre are better.

[AJM1613]

Philly's offense has been MUCH better than Atlanta's. Their running game two years ago was about 50% Vick and their main receiver was a TE. They added Price last season, but Vick got hurt.

Although he is at this point below McNabb, Vick has more upside. I'd still take Culpepper and Green over McNabb, and Hasselbeck is close.

At best McNabb is 7th. Culpepper, Manning, McNair, Brady, Green, and Favre are better.
I'm sorry but Dunn/Duckett are better than Staley.
Crumpler is better than Lewis.
Finneran and who ever else they had are about equal with Pinkston and Thrash.

Last season Vick had a 50% completion percentage with Price/Finneran...

[blindzebra]

I'm sorry but Dunn/Duckett are better than Staley.
Crumpler is better than Lewis.
Finneran and who ever else they had are about equal with Pinkston and Thrash.

Last season Vick had a 50% completion percentage with Price/Finneran...

Is their RB by committee better than yours was with Staley? Nope.

Crumpler is better than Lewis, and I said he was their MAIN receiver two years ago.

Vick missed most of the season, so you are basing your argument on what?

Was Atlanta's offense in 2002 better than yours? It's not even close, Vick did it with less in 2002.

p.s. Vick is NOT in my top 8, so what was your point?

[AJM1613]

Is their RB by committee better than yours was with Staley? Nope.

Crumpler is better than Lewis, and I said he was their MAIN receiver two years ago.

Vick missed most of the season, so you are basing your argument on what?

Was Atlanta's offense in 2002 better than yours? It's not even close, Vick did it with less in 2002.

p.s. Vick is NOT in my top 8, so what was your point?
Dunn had 230 attempts for 927 yards (4.0 average) and 7 TD.
Duckett had 130 attemtps for 507 yards (3.9 average) and 11 TD.
Staley had 269 attempts for 1029 yards (3.8 average) and 5 TD.

Yes I would say that Atlanta had the better rushing game and better receivers (both TE and WR).

Explain to me how we had the better offense again?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Dunn had 230 attempts for 927 yards (4.0 average) and 7 TD.
Duckett had 130 attemtps for 507 yards (3.9 average) and 11 TD.
Staley had 269 attempts for 1029 yards (3.8 average) and 5 TD.

Yes I would say that Atlanta had the better rushing game and better receivers (both TE and WR).

Explain to me how we had the better offense again?


Read a little better...he said your RB by COM WITH staley...not staley by himself.

[AJM1613]

Read a little better...he said your RB by COM WITH staley...not staley by himself.
I was comparing the offenses in 2002, and they clearly had the better players without their quarterback.

[Verdict]

In a nutshell.........NO!

[blindzebra]

Dunn had 230 attempts for 927 yards (4.0 average) and 7 TD.
Duckett had 130 attemtps for 507 yards (3.9 average) and 11 TD.
Staley had 269 attempts for 1029 yards (3.8 average) and 5 TD.

Yes I would say that Atlanta had the better rushing game and better receivers (both TE and WR).

Explain to me how we had the better offense again?

You got Ducketts' stats wrong.


Atlanta: 2002


Dunn 230, 927, 4.0, 7 TDs Receiving 50, 377, 2 TDs

Duckett 130, 507, 4 TDs 9, 61, 0


Finneran 56, 838, 6 TDs

Gaylor 36, 455, 3 TDs

Crumpler 36, 455, 5 TDs


Philly: 2002

Staley 269, 1029, 3.8, 5 TDs REC 51, 541, 3 TDs

Levens 75, 411, 5.5, 1 TD 19, 124, 1 TD


Pinkston 60, 798, 7 TDs

Thrash 52, 635, 6 TDs

Lewis 42, 398, 3 TDs


Combined yards at RB:

Atlanta 419, 1872, 4.5, 13 TDs

Philly 414, 2105, 5.08, 10 TDs


Top 2 WRs and TE:

Atlanta 128, 1748, 13.7, 14 TDs

Philly 154, 1831, 11.9, 16 TDs

Want to back off the Atlanta had a better offense now, or is this where you say stats don't matter. ;)


Atlanta: 2003

Top 3 backs 429, 2171, 18 TDs

Top 3 WRs 99, 1327, 5 TDs

Crumpler 44, 552, 3 TDs


Philly: 2003

Backs 422, 2465, 5.84, 27 TDs

WRs 120, 1631, 5 TDs

Smith 27, 321, 1 TD

Vick did not have a better offense around him.

[AJM1613]

Maybe he should become a RB, his INTs are low because of the offensive system. He is also a 57% passer in a WCO which is REALLY low.

McNabb is top 10, but no way he is top 5.

Eat your crow... :)

[Hostile]

Eat your crow... :)
Judas Priest. The thread was 3 months old. You couldn't find the link and PM him?

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Eat your crow... :)

Actually I remember when you kept telling everyone about McNabb's abilities -- but of course, most blew it off. So that's why I believe this post is most deserving.

I've got a mint condition of McNabb's rookie card and a hollogram card of McNabb about to throw a touchdown pass!

Good post AJM. :cool:

[KINGBRICE_28]

I've got a mint condition of McNabb's rookie card and a hollogram card of McNabb about to throw a touchdown pass!



Well just because he's gonna throw a pass doesn't make it valuable

:p I'd have a million in common cards then.......

Back on topic, With a top#1 WR on his team YES, with just a normal #1 like ehh....dare I say Keyshawn or maybe price he would be middle of the pack.....

If I had to pick right now It would be: ( not based on FANTASY STATS, But the ability to make your team win:

Brady
manning
culpepper
favre
pennington

Brees & harrington are coming up......finally.....lol

STATS wise:

Manning
culpepper
favre

then who ever else is doing hot like.....Big ben or even McNabb

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

If I had to pick right now It would be: ( not based on FANTASY STATS, But the ability to make your team win:

Brady
manning
culpepper
favre
pennington
then who ever else is doing hot like.....Big ben or even McNabb

Honestly, you've got "bias" written all over your post King "B!" Granted, I agree with your picks, but how can you sit there and type in those outstanding QBs without including McNabb in the mix -- not as in an "then whoever else..." recognition.

I'm not certain if you're trying to be insulting? :confused:

[Tio]

Don't you just love it when fans say other fans have a bias, but they're too blind to see they have one theirselves?

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Don't you just love it when fans say other fans have a bias, but they're too blind to see they have one theirselves?

Well, you do make an cInteresting point RW! :mad:

I still think that other fan should read a copy of ...

http://www.countrybookshop.co.uk/images/jackets/1999/0764539361.jpg :D

[TLW47]

Tom Brady is the best QB in the business right now.

[blindzebra]

Eat your crow... :)

You can eat something else, TROLL.

How's Culpepper doing by the way?

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

You can eat something else, TROLL. How's Culpepper doing by the way?

Lol! Never heard of someone eating a troll. bahhahahahaha :D Nice one AJM! ;)

[blindzebra]

Lol! Never heard of someone eating a troll. bahhahahahaha :D Nice one AJM! ;)

Notice the comma, that seperates the eat something else from the TROLL. It figures lack of IQ and Eagles fans have a link.

[Tio]

Notice the comma, that seperates the eat something else from the TROLL. It figures lack of IQ and Eagles fans have a link.isn't it amazing how frequently these iggle fans need to be taught grammar?

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Notice the comma, that seperates the eat something else from the TROLL. It figures lack of IQ and Eagles fans have a link.

For you to try and explain grammar to me is hilarious! Stop it ...bah,ha,ha,ha,ha,lol! :D

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

isn't it amazing how frequently these iggle fans need to be taught grammar?

Just as amazing as that blowout game last week! :o

[blindzebra]

For you to try and explain grammar to me is hilarious! Stop it ...bah,ha,ha,ha,ha,lol! :D

I know, you're an Eagles' fan so you will never understand.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

I know, you're an Eagles' fan so you will never understand.


I understand the math ...6 wins + 0 losses = 1st place :rolleyes:

http://img81.exs.cx/img81/6177/tobo.gif

[Tio]

I understand the math ...6 wins + 0 losses = 1st place :rolleyes:

http://img81.exs.cx/img81/6177/tobo.gifWhat math? We were never talking about math. It is very pathetic how you try to wiggle yourself out of these situations...

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

What math? We were never talking about math. It is very pathetic how you try to wiggle yourself out of these situations...

RWthree-one

I was just about ready to think you had an inkling of hope ...until I saw your post in the "Cowboys Zone Thread" called CHAT "Do as you're told????????????? ? Are you chanting for your team to win this week, or are you talking to yourself -- because nobody wants to touch that post!

So don't come spewing your nonsense to me about math :eek:

[blindzebra]

I understand the math ...6 wins + 0 losses = 1st place :rolleyes:

http://img81.exs.cx/img81/6177/tobo.gif

The only numbers that matter 5 wins 3 losses, 0 wins 1 loss. ;)

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

The only numbers that matter 5 wins 3 losses, 0 wins 1 loss. ;)

Can we get thrugh the regular season befor we start reflecting upon Yesteryears in the SB. But wait, you're right -- your boys have established a place in history that demands respect. However, your SB record does Not have anything to do with the year 2004! :rolleyes:

[Tio]

RWthree-one

I was just about ready to think you had an inkling of hope ...until I saw your post in the "Cowboys Zone Thread" called CHAT "Do as you're told????????????? ? Are you chanting for your team to win this week, or are you talking to yourself -- because nobody wants to touch that post!

So don't come spewing your nonsense to me about math !:eek:Very sad. You obviously haven't an "inkling" sense of sarcasm or humor. BTW, you wan't to ahve a math discussion? How about 5 superbowls to a donut?

[blindzebra]

Can we get thrugh the regular season befor we start reflecting upon Yesteryears in the SB. But wait, you're right -- your boys have established a place in history that demands respect. However, your SB record does Not have anything to do with the year 2004! :rolleyes:

Just like being 6-0 against an awfully easy schedule won't matter when you once again CHOKE and don't even reach the Super Bowl.

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

Very sad. You obviously haven't an "inkling" sense of sarcasm or humor. BTW, you wan't to ahve a math discussion? How about 5 superbowls to a donut?


My sense of humor is running on all cyclinders -- that is, when something is humorous! Yours borderlined a history lesson; vis-a-vis a math discussion. But I enjoyed your quick wittedness anyway. ;)

[AJM1613]

Just like being 6-0 against an awfully easy schedule won't matter when you once again CHOKE and don't even reach the Super Bowl.

The schedule hasn't been easy. :rolleyes:

Yes I was wrong about Culpepper...for the first 6 games he is the best QB in the league...same as last season. Lets see if that holds up. I like the guy, but he did look pretty bad the other day.

It is remarkable though how right I have been. :)

Dawkins vs Williams? Right.
McNabb Top 5? Right.
Eagles THAT good? Right.
Cowboys average? Right.
Owens won't be a problem? Right so far.
Kearse won't get injured? Right so far.

Wrong about Smith vs Witten, and Culpepper/Brady top 5.

I apologize for being such a homer thinking Smith was equal with Witten. Your turn.

[Tio]

The schedule hasn't been easy. :rolleyes:

Yes I was wrong about Culpepper...for the first 6 games he is the best QB in the league...same as last season. Lets see if that holds up. I like the guy, but he did look pretty bad the other day.

It is remarkable though how right I have been. :)

Dawkins vs Williams? Right. Why so?
McNabb Top 5? Right. He is borderline top 5
Eagles THAT good? Right. Yep (dammit) although they will never win a super bowl...I find an extreme comfort in that
Cowboys average? Right. F U!!!
Owens won't be a problem? Right so far. He has been a big distraction all season. They were talking about this...
Kearse won't get injured? Right so far. "so far" beign the key word

Wrong about Smith vs Witten, and Culpepper/Brady top 5.

I apologize for being such a homer thinking Smith was equal with Witten. Your turn.I was sorry about thinking Mcnabb was barely top 10.

[mr.jameswoods]

I have been defending McNabb for three years. He may not be a top 5 passer but he is a top 5 QB. I may not like him but I'm not going to deny reality just because I'm a Cowboy fan. For years, he has never had any decent wideout to throw to and he still put Pro Bowl numbers. The knock on him is that he couldn't throw deep. Well, he is throwing deep this season. Now, he has one of the best receivers in the NFL and he can suddenly throw deep. Go figure. Those who were putting him down in the past are eating a lot of crow including Rush Limbaugh. McNabb is a winner and he finds a way to win in each contest.

This bashing of McNabb is becoming a joke. How many Pro Bowls does he have to go to earn respect? What if they win a Superbowl, are you still going to say diss him? Let's look at the common excuses

1. The Joe Montana excuse-: "He played with great surrounding talent"
-what weapons on offense did McNabb have in the past? He didn't have an Emmitt Smith. He didn't have a Michael Irvin. Heck he didn't even have a Jay Novacek.

2. The Jeff Garcia excuse: "He can't throw down the field."
-Look at this season. He was given a receiver who get open and he is completing deep passes. He could throw deep in the past as well. In fact he complete a 4th and 20+ yard pass in the playoffs

3. The Michael Vick excuse: "He is just a runningback and he can't pass well."
101 TD's to just 52 INT's for his career. He is on pace to throw for 32 TD's and 4000 yards this seasons. Those are stats indicative of a man who can pass.

Is he a top 5 QB, yes he is:

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Culpepper
4. McNabb
5. Trent Green

[ARMAGEDDON EAGLE]

[QUOTE=mr.jameswoods]I have been defending McNabb for three years. He may not be a top 5 passer but he is a top 5 QB. I may not like him but I'm not going to deny reality just because I'm a Cowboy fan. This bashing of McNabb is becoming a joke. How many Pro Bowls does he have to go to earn respect? What if they win a Superbowl, are you still going to say diss him? Let's look at the common excuses

Likewise, I've never bashed V'TestaVerde; don't like him, but I think he is a quality Qb that already comes equipped with a topline receiver -- K'Shawn!

I think well for a C'boys fan. :rolleyes: (you know how it is...) ;)

[AJM1613]

Just like being 6-0 against an awfully easy schedule won't matter when you once again CHOKE and don't even reach the Super Bowl.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/smilies/diabolical.gif

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/smilies/diabolical.gif


Although you proved him wrong....it might be wise until Monday Morning before gloating....might be bad karma towards your team this weekend....and if they lose I am going to all eagles message boards and saying the reason they lost is because of you jinxing them. :eek: :p ;)

[TLW47]

I would take Vick over McNabb.

I would also include Pennington somewhere in the top mix.

McNabb is very good though. Can't stand the guy but he's a very nice QB. :iggles:

[AJM1613]

Although you proved him wrong....it might be wise until Monday Morning before gloating....might be bad karma towards your team this weekend....and if they lose I am going to all eagles message boards and saying the reason they lost is because of you jinxing them. :eek: :p ;)

I was just bored so I looked at the threads I created...this was in the top five so I clicked on it. "WHEN" the Eagles win, on Monday I won't be bored or be on this board.

[Phoenix-Talon]

When the Eagles beat the Pats, a Lot of people will eat crow.:D

[The30YardSlant]

1: Manning
2: Brady
3: Farve
4: Culpepper
5: Green
6: Pennington

Then you can start talking about McNabb. TO has proven that McNabb is not a top 5 QB because he proved McNabb is only as good as his receivers, while the truly great ones elevate the talent they have. Look at Brady: average receivers, great players. Same with Green and Pennington. Culpepper and Manning ahve great targets but they are just obviously better than McNabb.

Bottom line, TO made McNabb better, not the other way around.

[Phoenix-Talon]

Look Heavy, no disrespect intended ok? But your list is a mess! I'll try to place it in some logical order that you'll see where I'm comiong from. Your List reflects your bias as it stands. Check this out ..

HeavyHitta31 approves the following QB
1: ManningPeyton Manning is a good solid choice; broke a recoord or two this season and probably should have been an AFC contender for the SB -- I agree (but not necessarily with the #1 position -- yes, the #1 is fine with me!)

HeavyHitta31 approves the following QB
2: BradyHel no --Brady should not be #2! He's a very good leader and QB; But not the 2nd best in the NFL this year. A few field goals gone bad and he may not even have been in the SB. I'm starting to lean on Him being over-rated. The right defensive squad will show you how to control Brady and force mistakes. Watch the SB carefully and then let's chat again about your #2. I disagree -- perhaps #4

HeavyHitta31 approves the following QB
3: Farve This one is slightly difficult, because Favre is Hall-of-fame bound. Was he #3 this season -- yes! I agree -- but keep it in mind that he's on the hub of making that dreaded "R-word" decision. That will be based on the assessment of his own performance this season. I'd still agree with you; he's a classic in a category of his own. When he's on -- it all the way live!

HeavyHitta31 approves the following QB
4: CulpepperI like Culpepper -- but not that much. When Moss is on; Culpepper is on -- but when Moss is out they stop winning. McNabb can and has won games without T.O. The Point is I disagree with the rating you've given him, but he is among the to QBs this season.

HeavyHitta31 approves the following QB
5: GreenI think this is where you inserted some form of bias, because I can't see Green fitting into a category just below Favre -- huh?! Extract Green; disagree with you on this pick

HeavyHitta31 approves the following QB
6: PenningtonPennington is Carter's colleague (or vis-versa). Anyway, I didn't think Pennington had the supporting cast around him to make the type of impact you imply. I could go either way on this one.

Then you can start talking about McNabb. When the pigskin is launched into the heavens, there's no pulling it back. T.O. must be at the designated location to obtain said Pigskin and make the completion and any coincidental extra yardage that he can obtain.

Keep this in your mind, McNabb ensures the ball gets to LJ SMith, Lewis, Freddie, Westbrook, Pinkston, as well as T.O. -- it's not the other way around. Now there's something to be said about "getting into the open," but Mcnabb still has had several other options all season. Now In the dawning of the SB, he stiill has several healthy options and a pAir of very fresh legs of his own (perhaps an X-factor). I strongly disagree with your bias to withohold McNabb from the top-five QB ratings.

Ok, so now you know how I feel about some of your choices -- not bad if you toss out some ingrained feelings you subtly express in your list. Here's my un-biased (as un-biased as I can be -- realizing that I have biases going into this ...)

Manning
Pennington
McNabb
Favre/Culpepper
Brady/Green (maybe Green/Brady)

Don't forget to watch Brady show himself (like he did in the Pittsburgh game) when confronted with a strong defensive squad looking at him. We'll talk about htis again.

Be well. ;)

[Tio]

When the Eagles beat the Pats, a Lot of people will eat crow.:DYou better be here on Sunday...

[Tio]

I must stop that infernal reek that is the vile clump of poop that is your list.

hel no --Brady should not be #2! He's a very good leader and QB; But not the 2nd best in the NFL this year. A few field goals gone bad and he may not even have been in the SB. I'm starting to lean on Him being over-rated. The right defensive squad will show you how to control Brady and force mistakes. Watch the SB carefully and then let's chat again about your #2. I disagree -- perhaps #4
There is no way you can deny brady of number 2. He has routinely been the guy to rise above all the other qbs. He is number one or two on anyone's list.

This one is slightly difficult, because Favre is Hall-of-fame bound. Was he #3 this season -- yes! I agree -- but keep it in mind that he's on the hub of making that dreaded "R-word" decision. That will be based on the assessment of his own performance this season. I'd still agree with you; he's a classic in a category of his own. When he's on -- it all the way live! No way is he number 3. Culpepper is probably 3. Farvre is a gun slinger that is starting to miss with his shots.


I like Culpepper -- but not that much. When Moss is on; Culpepper is on -- but when Moss is out they stop winning. McNabb can and has won games without T.O. The Point is I disagree with the rating you've given him, but he is among the to QBs this season. Do you know how many games moss missed this year? Have you seen Culpepper's numbers?

I think this is where you inserted some form of bias, because I can't see Green fitting into a category just below Favre -- huh?! Extract Green; disagree with you on this pick Green is top 10 at best.

Pennington is Carter's colleague (or vis-versa). Anyway, I didn't think Pennington had the supporting cast around him to make the type of impact you imply. I could go either way on this one. I agree, pennington was always a favorite of mine. He seems to will that jets team to victory.


Manning
Pennington
McNabb
Favre/Culpepper
Brady/Green (maybe Green/Brady)

. ;)
Here is the real list...

1.Manning
2.Brady
3.Culpepper
4.Mcnabb
5.Pennington/brees

[AJM1613]

1: Manning
2: Brady
3: Farve
4: Culpepper
5: Green
6: Pennington

Then you can start talking about McNabb. TO has proven that McNabb is not a top 5 QB because he proved McNabb is only as good as his receivers, while the truly great ones elevate the talent they have. Look at Brady: average receivers, great players. Same with Green and Pennington. Culpepper and Manning ahve great targets but they are just obviously better than McNabb.

Bottom line, TO made McNabb better, not the other way around.

I hope you're fishing.

There is no way Green, Favre and Pennington are better than McNabb, they all have better targets and worse stats.

[Tio]

I hope you're fishing.

There is no way Green, Favre and Pennington are better than McNabb, they all have better targets and worse stats.Pennington and green have better targets than mcnabb?

[Fletch]

Brady shouldn't be on that list.

That right there proves how idiotic Fecal fans are. You take the cake my friend. You're a IDIOT!

[AJM1613]

That right there proves how idiotic Fecal fans are. You take the cake my friend. You're a IDIOT!

If you read the rest of my posts on this thread, I said I "changed" my opinion (a.k.a. "fishing" when I originally wrote it). Actually, I think he's the best in the league, until he losses tomorrow, then it will be McNabb.

R-E-A-D.

Pennington and green have better targets than mcnabb?

Sorry, worded it wrong. Better offensive supporting casts.

[Tio]

If you read the rest of my posts on this thread, I said I "changed" my opinion (a.k.a. "fishing" when I originally wrote it). Actually, I think he's the best in the league, until he losses tomorrow, then it will be McNabb.

R-E-A-D.



Sorry, worded it wrong. Better offensive supporting casts.You seriously don't think you're gonna win right?

ANyway, I think the eagles have a better OL, WRs, and TE than the jets. And they don't get completely blown out of the water at rb either...

[AJM1613]

You seriously don't think you're gonna win right?

ANyway, I think the eagles have a better OL, WRs, and TE than the jets. And they don't get completely blown out of the water at rb either...

Win what? The game tomorrow?

Yeah I think we're going to win, the only way the Patriots win tomorrow is if the Eagles "stay in St. Augustine".

For a team that doesn't get overconfident, the Patriots are extremely overconfident.

[Phoenix-Talon]

AJM1613] For a team that doesn't get overconfident, the Patriots are extremely overconfident ...
The following caption indicates the Hammer (the Eagles) stopping the nail (the Pats) in its tracks from bypassing the Cowboys as a dynasty. Thought this site might appreciate that effort, but some of their comments indicats otherwise -- interesting.
:hammer:


I agree. I think they believe all the media hype about a "dynasty." But the hammer of Thor is going to come down on those Pediatrics today!

Eagles will get that Lombardi trophy today!:D

[Tio]

Win what? The game tomorrow?

Yeah I think we're going to win, the only way the Patriots win tomorrow is if the Eagles "stay in St. Augustine".

For a team that doesn't get overconfident, the Patriots are extremely overconfident.Funny, all week it seems the eagles have had their mind on TO and TO on their mind.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Although you proved him wrong....it might be wise until Monday Morning before gloating....might be bad karma towards your team this weekend....and if they lose I am going to all eagles message boards and saying the reason they lost is because of you jinxing them. :eek: :p ;)


Karma....funny thing sometimes.

YOU jinxed your team. :D

[CowboyFan74]

Gets rattled early in the game, granted his o-line left him out to die in the big one, I expect him to bounce back and be a good one....