Another Zimmer Bashing Thread . . .

[Midswat]

Seriously . . .

We played a lame duck team last night without their All-Pro TE, All-Pro WR, a rookie QB, and a below average offensive line . . .

Yet, we could not stop them to save our lives.

We couldn't get any pressure on the QB . . . we couldn't get any turn-overs, save for once instance when Eli threw the ball at his players helmet and our guys still did their best attempt to drop the ball.

I mean . . . when we scored that late TD . . . did anyone else really think the game wouldn't at least go into overtime?

I absolutely knew Zimmer wouldn't be able to stop them. He barely did all night.

Eli Manning looked like Peyton . . . and David Tyree looked like Jerry Rice.

It was sickening . . .

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I am just so sick to my stomach after last night and the previous 17 weeks . . .

Zimmer is a garbage defensive coordinator . . . and he needs to be removed.

George Warhop should be right behind him, too . . .

[boysfanindc]

It's funny when I look at this board I see two things over and over again.

Boy do we need some talent on defense, we need a DT, DE, CB, FS and a LB.

Man I hope we get 3 or 4 players on D that can play.

And Zimmer sucks it all his fault.

How do those two things jive?

I love this train of thought, if you believe you are what you are based on performance. We were the number one defense last year and we are the 16th rated defense this year.

We got better as the year went on with this train wreck of talent we tried to go into the season with.

We lost our captain and defensive QB in Woodson, never played a down. We replaced him with 3 different guys all of which could not start for most teams in the league. See what type of careers Dixon & Scott end up having even if they go some where else.

Roy having to play out of position.

We played 5 or 6 different guys at CB, 3 late round rookies, a practice squad guy and a guy that was out of the league for a year.

We brought in a guy at DE, Wiley who has averaged 4 sacks a year for the last 3 years! Prior to supposedly being shackled by this read and react defense.

Last year we had DT Blade who played pretty well, at least he could require a double team every now and then and keep people off of the LB's. But we did nothing, except let go this guy because he never worked out and also let guy the second teamer from last year Stewart who was supposedly looking all world over the summer go. Then we try and replace him with Carson (bad knee) and Chad freaking Eaton.

Singleton was bad last year and worse this year, have never seen a player live on his a** as much as Singleton.

You draft a bust in James and try and give him the job.

This defense was sunk in the off season, by bringing in zero talent and with all this we are statistically right in the middle of the road.

Then add on top of that we have a QB who throws 20 INT's and absolutely no running game for half the season.

Isn't amazing how much better the D played once a running game was established.

Am I happy with the Defense? NO WAY!

But to blame Zimmer solely is insane. If you remember he was complaining about the talent we had in camp. And BP told him he was an IE, Instant Talent Evaluator when he did not like what he had at DE and CB.

You saw us try and blitz last night, and Frazier gets burned and we can not even sniff the QB, even when overloading a side where the blitz is coming from.

I would like to see this D get a couple of play makers before I say the sole problem with this D is Zimmer.
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[Woods]

IMO,

IF (big IF) BP really does want to use more of a 3-4 defense - let's say about 25-40% of the snaps - it probably makes sense to get a DC who can best implement BOTH the 3-4 and 4-3 schemes.

I wouldn't necessarily think Zimmer is the best guy for that job.

[mr.jameswoods]

This is not a very difficult concept to understand. No defensive coordinator would look good if they had the talent we have on defense. We have no defensive ends capable of rushing the passer. Our linebackers are undersized. We have two players in the secondary who wouldn't start for any of the top 5 teams in college. Our best "DB" is terrible in coverage in Roy Williams and is playing out of position, yet the problem rests with Zimmer. Okay

Oh and let's remember these are our STARTERS. Don't get me started on our depth or lack thereof. Give Zimmer some talent and then let him fail.

[AsthmaField]

Yet our defense kept getting beaten the same ways... game after game.

To me (and I could be wrong) that says something wasn't right with our coaching.

Yes our talent wasn't on par with what it should be, but jeeze, don't let them make the same mistakes week-after-week.

[wileedog]

This is not a very difficult concept to understand. No defensive coordinator would look good if they had the talent we have on defense. We have no defensive ends capable of rushing the passer. Our linebackers are undersized. We have two players in the secondary who wouldn't start for any of the top 5 teams in college. Our best "DB" is terrible in coverage in Roy Williams and is playing out of position, yet the problem rests with Zimmer. Okay

I'm not a fan of Zimmer, and wouldn't mind seeing him replaced, however I do understand that the Woodson injury was a killer, RCB was a hole for most of the season (made worse by the play of Dixon for half the season), and our LBs got exposed this year (or perhaps late last year). Dat Bust was no help either.

But Zim, like Parcells, doesn't get a free pass. His system is simply not conducive to aggressive defense. Even with last year's #1 ranking we were mediocre at best at creating turnovers and pressure on the QB.

Zimmer believes in stopping the run at all costs, which cuts or D-Line's ability to attack as they need to read the play first. However with sub-par DT play next to Glover, and Wiley being a better pass rusher than run stopper (which speaks volumes) our LBs got exposed this year as a weakness, and as a result we couldn't stop the run or the pass.

When a player like Ekuban can suck here for multiple years then go to Cleveland and register 8 sacks, something is seriously wrong. Granted health issues may have played a role, but 8 sacks is quite a turnaround.

Zimms scheme is ok if we have the players to run it, but I personally and many others here I think would like something a little more aggressive, less passive. Even when Zim's scheme is running 100% how he likes it, good offensive teams can still beat it, and it doesn't create the necessary pressure and disruption that a true dominant defense does.

[boysfanindc]

How do you cover these weaknesses on D consistently.

You have to commit 8 guys to the box to stop the run. Because you don't have a DT who can consume O linemen, small LB's who get blown away if you don't keep guys off of them.

Your best playmaker RW who you have to put in coverage, because you try and play late round rookies and practive guys at CB and a FS's who have no coverage skills.

No pash rush to the point of even when you overload a side and risk being beat in the passing game can not get to the QB.

How do you design a D to cover these flaws up on a consistent basis.

Then your helps you because you have no running game half the year and a QB who hands the other team 20 INT's.

[Midswat]

Okay . . . so its not Zimmers fault :rolleyes:

Its because we lost players to injury . . .

Right . . .

Everyone in here with a fully functioning brain realizes that despite the #1 ranked defense last year . . . we were far from the best defense in the league.

We were near bottom in turn-overs, and again near bottom in sacks.

And whenever we played a quality opponent, they moved the ball at will against us.


Funny how its not Zimmers fault because we have some injuries . . . when I watched the Washington Redskins humiliate the Minnesota Vikings yesterday while they went without Fred Smoot, Matt Bowen, Lavar Arrington, Phillip Daniels, and ended up starting a host of virtual unknowns throughout that defense.

Spare me . . .

[boysfanindc]

I'm not a fan of Zimmer, and wouldn't mind seeing him replaced, however I do understand that the Woodson injury was a killer, RCB was a hole for most of the season (made worse by the play of Dixon for half the season), and our LBs got exposed this year (or perhaps late last year). Dat Bust was no help either.

But Zim, like Parcells, doesn't get a free pass. His system is simply not conducive to aggressive defense. Even with last year's #1 ranking we were mediocre at best at creating turnovers and pressure on the QB.

Zimmer believes in stopping the run at all costs, which cuts or D-Line's ability to attack as they need to read the play first. However with sub-par DT play next to Glover, and Wiley being a better pass rusher than run stopper (which speaks volumes) our LBs got exposed this year as a weakness, and as a result we couldn't stop the run or the pass.

When a player like Ekuban can suck here for multiple years then go to Cleveland and register 8 sacks, something is seriously wrong. Granted health issues may have played a role, but 8 sacks is quite a turnaround.

Zimms scheme is ok if we have the players to run it, but I personally and many others here I think would like something a little more aggressive, less passive. Even when Zim's scheme is running 100% how he likes it, good offensive teams can still beat it, and it doesn't create the necessary pressure and disruption that a true dominant defense does.

I agree 100%, Zimmer is the easy target, because you do not have to look at anything else that also may contribute to having the 16th ranked D in the league and lack of turnovers.

I am not defending Zimmer as much as saying there is more then one side to this story.

Is Zimmer the best DC in the league? No he is not, could he do a decent job with some talent, I would like to find out. If not then so be it.

If we can do better then Zimmer then let's take a look, but to soley blame this D's effectiveness on Zimmer over and over and over again, may stop you from seeing there are more problems with this D then Zimmer and some of them were on offense.

[AsthmaField]

How do you cover these weaknesses on D consistently.

You have to commit 8 guys to the box to stop the run. Because you don't have a DT who can consume O linemen, small LB's who get blown away if you don't keep guys off of them.

Your best playmaker RW who you have to put in coverage, because you try and play late round rookies and practive guys at CB and a FS's who have no coverage skills.

No pash rush to the point of even when you overload a side and risk being beat in the passing game can not get to the QB.

How do you design a D to cover these flaws up on a consistent basis.

Then your helps you because you have no running game half the year and a QB who hands the other team 20 INT's.

The answer to your question is, "I don't know".

Like I said, I could be wrong. But do something. If we're playing Randy Moss and Culpepper, I can understand how we simply might not be able to do anything to stop them, but we played some mediocre offensive teams who we simply couldn't keep from passing. When it came down to crunch time, you just knew we were going to let the other team score a TD.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, there is nothing any D. Coordinator could have done with the guys we had... but it just seems like something could've been done to stop the bleeding.

[boysfanindc]

Actually the D was ranked at 28 half way through the season and improved to 16 by the end of the year.

Again, I am not looking to give Zimmer a pass on how effective he was as a D coordinator. Let's take a look at it, but to only blame him over and over again, I think blinds you to making sure you look at the complete picture, D coordinator, talent, scheme and how the O contributed to the defensive problems.