Don't Buy the Hype #2

[Chuck 54]

Not that the first one was worth a damn or deserved a #2, but I didn't want to think of another title :).

Many are saying that CB's are losing value due to the new rules...this is totally false...GREAT CB's with recovery speed and cover skills are going to be more valuable than ever, and I think the salaries paid last offseason show that NFL men believe that as well.

Just because a great "shutdown" corner now gives up some TD's and draws some yellow flags doesn't suddenly mean he's not worth every penny.

These new rules make it more critical than ever to have legit guys at CB with legit skills, ability, and instinct. If the great CB gets occassionally abused by the new rules, the marginal or lesser CB is a definite liability to the entire defense.

Keep it simple...Would our own defense be better with two Newman's at CB or two Frazier's? It's a no brainer.

Great CB's like Bailey, Woodson, McCalister, and even Newman may never totally lock down their half of the field again due to the new rules, but they are invaluable to any defensive Coordinator....without them, he has no options but to try and cover for his weak secondary by playing off the receivers and never attacking the QB.

The CB is still the most important defensive player on the field, no matter what the rules are. When you're weak at CB, it's a very difficult weakness to hide.

[jimmy40]

Not that the first one was worth a damn or deserved a #2, but I didn't want to think of another title :).

Many are saying that CB's are losing value due to the new rules...this is totally false...GREAT CB's with recovery speed and cover skills are going to be more valuable than ever, and I think the salaries paid last offseason show that NFL men believe that as well.

Just because a great "shutdown" corner now gives up some TD's and draws some yellow flags doesn't suddenly mean he's not worth every penny.

These new rules make it more critical than ever to have legit guys at CB with legit skills, ability, and instinct. If the great CB gets occassionally abused by the new rules, the marginal or lesser CB is a definite liability to the entire defense.

Keep it simple...Would our own defense be better with two Newman's at CB or two Frazier's? It's a no brainer.

Great CB's like Bailey, Woodson, McCalister, and even Newman may never totally lock down their half of the field again due to the new rules, but they are invaluable to any defensive Coordinator....without them, he has no options but to try and cover for his weak secondary by playing off the receivers and never attacking the QB.

The CB is still the most important defensive player on the field, no matter what the rules are. When you're weak at CB, it's a very difficult weakness to hide.With the new rules the most important defensive position just might be whoever covers the tightend. If the new rule stays the way it is this won't just be the year of the tightend it will be the decade of the tightend.

[Phrozen Phil]

Not that the first one was worth a damn or deserved a #2, but I didn't want to think of another title :).

Many are saying that CB's are losing value due to the new rules...this is totally false...GREAT CB's with recovery speed and cover skills are going to be more valuable than ever, and I think the salaries paid last offseason show that NFL men believe that as well.

Just because a great "shutdown" corner now gives up some TD's and draws some yellow flags doesn't suddenly mean he's not worth every penny.

These new rules make it more critical than ever to have legit guys at CB with legit skills, ability, and instinct. If the great CB gets occassionally abused by the new rules, the marginal or lesser CB is a definite liability to the entire defense.

Keep it simple...Would our own defense be better with two Newman's at CB or two Frazier's? It's a no brainer.

Great CB's like Bailey, Woodson, McCalister, and even Newman may never totally lock down their half of the field again due to the new rules, but they are invaluable to any defensive Coordinator....without them, he has no options but to try and cover for his weak secondary by playing off the receivers and never attacking the QB.

The CB is still the most important defensive player on the field, no matter what the rules are. When you're weak at CB, it's a very difficult weakness to hide.

I couldn't agree more. THe more talent you have back there, the more choices you have. Dunta Robinson went quite a bit earlier than was predicted, and the value of good CB's is still solid. It is the toughest position to play and we need more talent. Whjile we obviously need a FS, we may be able to look past our first pick. Having said that, it is still imperative that the Dline be addressed in some fashion (FA or draft) in the off season.

[Mash]

Give me a DL that can pass rush and I will make average CB's into probowlers....

The Eagles proved it once again

I take a pass rush and two Fraziers and give you Prime time who takes up half the field and the likes of EK and Chad Hennings rushing the passer

Take the Eagles CB's who I think one made the pro-bowl this year and the other in Reid's own words....should of..... and put them both in our secondary.

How do you think they will fair?.....

[jimmy40]

Give me a DL that can pass rush and I will make average CB's into probowlers....

The Eagles proved it once again

I take a pass rush and two Fraziers and give you Prime time who takes up half the field and the likes of EK and Chad Hennings rushing the passer

Take the Eagles CB's who I think one made the pro-bowl this year and the other in Reid's own words....should of..... and put them both in our secondary.

How do you think they will fair?.....Probably pretty well.

[Mash]

really?

smoke another one.... :)

The previous pro-bowlers CB's that left .....look pretty average to me. One couldn't even crack the starting lineup on their new team.

[jimmy40]

really?

smoke another one.... :)

The previous pro-bowlers CB's that left .....look pretty average to me. One couldn't even crack the starting lineup on their new team.Some people just can't give other teams players their deserved props and that's fine. I just don't happen to be one of those people.

[Rack Bauer]

It has nothing to do with giving props. The Eagles CBs benefit from a great pass rush. That's just pure fact. If you don't have to cover for long periods of time on a regular basis then you're gonna look pretty good out there. If you have to cover as long as our CBs do, then even if you're great you're gonna get toasted.

Newman is better then any CB on their roster, he just doesn't have their pass rush.


And I'm sorry, I disagree with the original post. Due to the new rules CBs just aren't as valuable IMO. IF there were a Deion Sanders in the league today, then he'd be worth big money, but there are no Deions (other then Deion himself who isn't the "old" Deion anymore obviously).

The rules don't allow CBs to be as big a factor in the game as they used to be. And it's even riskier taking a CB high now cuz they are allowed to be "physical" in college. YOu can draft one of those guys with a high pick and then find out he can't play CB with his hands behind his back. Surprise surprise.

[Chuck 54]

Give me a DL that can pass rush and I will make average CB's into probowlers....

The Eagles proved it once again

I take a pass rush and two Fraziers and give you Prime time who takes up half the field and the likes of EK and Chad Hennings rushing the passer

Take the Eagles CB's who I think one made the pro-bowl this year and the other in Reid's own words....should of..... and put them both in our secondary.

How do you think they will fair?.....
close to how Newman faired, and 2-3 times better than Frazier faired, imo.

Last year, Newman played more consistantly than this year, but had Mario Edwards on the other side....not even an average starting NFL cb, but far superior to Frazier and company....no pass rush for years, but the secondary was much worse this year....was it all because of the new rules? I don't think so.

You take a great QB like Bret Favre...he's better with a great OL and great WR's, but even without great WR's or a great line, he's still great. And I'd rather have Favre with a suspect OL than a Quincy Carter with a great OL.

[Chuck 54]

It has nothing to do with giving props. The Eagles CBs benefit from a great pass rush. That's just pure fact. If you don't have to cover for long periods of time on a regular basis then you're gonna look pretty good out there. If you have to cover as long as our CBs do, then even if you're great you're gonna get toasted.

Newman is better then any CB on their roster, he just doesn't have their pass rush.


And I'm sorry, I disagree with the original post. Due to the new rules CBs just aren't as valuable IMO. IF there were a Deion Sanders in the league today, then he'd be worth big money, but there are no Deions (other then Deion himself who isn't the "old" Deion anymore obviously).

The rules don't allow CBs to be as big a factor in the game as they used to be. And it's even riskier taking a CB high now cuz they are allowed to be "physical" in college. YOu can draft one of those guys with a high pick and then find out he can't play CB with his hands behind his back. Surprise surprise.
If that's really how you feel, then I guess you'd trade Newman for Cory Simon and keep Frazier out there at CB with Reeves and make probowlers out of them because they have a pass rush suddenly???

[Nors]

Not that the first one was worth a damn or deserved a #2, but I didn't want to think of another title :).

Many are saying that CB's are losing value due to the new rules...this is totally false...GREAT CB's with recovery speed and cover skills are going to be more valuable than ever, and I think the salaries paid last offseason show that NFL men believe that as well.

Just because a great "shutdown" corner now gives up some TD's and draws some yellow flags doesn't suddenly mean he's not worth every penny.

These new rules make it more critical than ever to have legit guys at CB with legit skills, ability, and instinct. If the great CB gets occassionally abused by the new rules, the marginal or lesser CB is a definite liability to the entire defense.

Keep it simple...Would our own defense be better with two Newman's at CB or two Frazier's? It's a no brainer.

Great CB's like Bailey, Woodson, McCalister, and even Newman may never totally lock down their half of the field again due to the new rules, but they are invaluable to any defensive Coordinator....without them, he has no options but to try and cover for his weak secondary by playing off the receivers and never attacking the QB.

The CB is still the most important defensive player on the field, no matter what the rules are. When you're weak at CB, it's a very difficult weakness to hide.

Invaluable - now if we had two lockdowns I'd be Jammerin to "Breakin the Law"!

[Rack Bauer]

If that's really how you feel, then I guess you'd trade Newman for Cory Simon and keep Frazier out there at CB with Reeves and make probowlers out of them because they have a pass rush suddenly???


We'd take too big of a cap hit if we traded Newman. And I didn't say I wanted nothing but crappy CBs, I'm just saying you won't get your money's worth if you draft one high now.

It's ALWAYS been that you can have average CBs with a good pass rush, but you can't have good CBs with NO pass rush, if you want to have a successful pass defense. Even moreso now with the new rules.

[jimmy40]

It has nothing to do with giving props. The Eagles CBs benefit from a great pass rush. That's just pure fact. If you don't have to cover for long periods of time on a regular basis then you're gonna look pretty good out there. If you have to cover as long as our CBs do, then even if you're great you're gonna get toasted.

Newman is better then any CB on their roster, he just doesn't have their pass rush.


And I'm sorry, I disagree with the original post. Due to the new rules CBs just aren't as valuable IMO. IF there were a Deion Sanders in the league today, then he'd be worth big money, but there are no Deions (other then Deion himself who isn't the "old" Deion anymore obviously).

The rules don't allow CBs to be as big a factor in the game as they used to be. And it's even riskier taking a CB high now cuz they are allowed to be "physical" in college. YOu can draft one of those guys with a high pick and then find out he can't play CB with his hands behind his back. Surprise surprise.The Eagles don't sack the QB every play and their safeties are free to roam. Their conerbacks are pretty damn good.

[big dog cowboy]

It all starts up front. We need to seriously upgrade the line and not just the starters. God I miss Charles Haley & gang. Those kept bringing it. All game.

[Rack Bauer]

The Eagles don't sack the QB every play and their safeties are free to roam. Their conerbacks are pretty damn good.


Oh I'm not saying their CBs aren't good. I'm just saying they made the probowl cuz of their pass rush, not cuz of their own ability.

Put Newman in their secondary and he's an allpro, easily. Put their CBs in our secondary and none of them make the probowl.


And they don't sack the QB every play (duh) but the do have the best pass rush in the NFL. They get consistent pressure on the QB even when they aren't sacking him.

[Chuck 54]

We'd take too big of a cap hit if we traded Newman. And I didn't say I wanted nothing but crappy CBs, I'm just saying you won't get your money's worth if you draft one high now.

It's ALWAYS been that you can have average CBs with a good pass rush, but you can't have good CBs with NO pass rush, if you want to have a successful pass defense. Even moreso now with the new rules.

If they are average NFL CB's and not average Cowboys CB's, I might agree with you only if we had a Haley or a pass rush that was consistant with pressure every play....unfortunately, we haven't had two decent CB's at the same time since Deon and PUP, and even that didn't last after the injury to Pup.

I'd rather draft a WR than a CB with that first pick, but we have to bring in a fa starter at CB and put Frazier on the bench or we'll have to draft one with one of our top picks. No pass rush is going to help Frazier or Hunter, imo. Newman will do a good job, no matter what the situation, but you can't get by with today's rules with a CB like Frazier.

I believe if you have two very good CB's, you're going to bring more pressure via the blitz like Philly does instead of trying to protect them all the time.

[Rack Bauer]

If they are average NFL CB's and not average Cowboys CB's, I might agree with you only if we had a Haley or a pass rush that was consistant with pressure every play....unfortunately, we haven't had two decent CB's at the same time since Deon and PUP, and even that didn't last after the injury to Pup.

I'd rather draft a WR than a CB with that first pick, but we have to bring in a fa starter at CB and put Frazier on the bench or we'll have to draft one with one of our top picks. No pass rush is going to help Frazier or Hunter, imo. Newman will do a good job, no matter what the situation, but you can't get by with today's rules with a CB like Frazier.

I believe if you have two very good CB's, you're going to bring more pressure via the blitz like Philly does instead of trying to protect them all the time.


Hunter and Frazier are both better then Larry Brown was... we won a superbowl with Larry Brown. Larry Brown was a superbowl MVP.

Yes, we can go into the season with Hunter/Frazier as our starting CBs, if we drastically improve our pass rush. Our pass rush need drastic improvement no matter who starts at RCB.

[Chuck 54]

Hunter and Frazier are both better then Larry Brown was... we won a superbowl with Larry Brown. Larry Brown was a superbowl MVP.

Yes, we can go into the season with Hunter/Frazier as our starting CBs, if we drastically improve our pass rush. Our pass rush need drastic improvement no matter who starts at RCB.

You have a right to your opinion, but I think you're totally dreaming that Hunter or Frazier could hold Brown's jockstrap at CB.....Brown had a good career for a non star....Hunter and Frazier would be lucky to ever have the career he had...Brown was not a star, but he is definitely underappreciated by guys like you, imo....no offense.

Hunter will be out of the league or a career backup imo.
Frazier has a chance to become a decent nickle back, maybe....

[The30YardSlant]

Hunter and Frazier are both better then Larry Brown was... we won a superbowl with Larry Brown. Larry Brown was a superbowl MVP.

Yes, we can go into the season with Hunter/Frazier as our starting CBs, if we drastically improve our pass rush. Our pass rush need drastic improvement no matter who starts at RCB.

LB was a nickelback, our starters were Sanders and Kevin Smith.

[big dog cowboy]

LB was a nickelback, our starters were Sanders and Kevin Smith.
That would be correct. Non-Cowboys football fans who know or have even heard of Larry Brown only know of him because of one game and he can thank Neil O'Donnell for that. Cowboy fans know him as a pretty solid CB and fan favorite in his day.

[Rack Bauer]

LB was a nickelback, our starters were Sanders and Kevin Smith.


What? You call yourself a cowboys fan? Larry Brown was the starter in the 1995 superbowl season. Kevin Smith got hurt in week 1.


He was also the starter in the 1993 superbowl season (if I'm not mistaken).


That would be correct.


No, that would be incorrect.

[speedkilz88]

Yeah, Rack is right. Kevin Smith and Larry Brown were the starters the first Super Bowl season and two years later when Deion was signed, Kevin blew out his achilles early on and Larry Brown was the starter again.

Larry Brown's nickname by teammates his rookie season was "Snowball" for his chances of making the team.