Michael Irvin Discussion

[Gunter504]

OK Guys, I am the youngest of a long line of Cowboys fans in my family. I have been watching them as long as I can remember. That being said-I'm still only 19 years old. So my knowledge is pretty limited. I really only know about the modern Cowboys and what I've read of the glory days. Can someone give me some insight on Michael Irvin? I watched him as a kid, but I don't have many memories of him. What kind of player was he? What were his best attributes? Do any of you have any great memories or stories on him? I would love to hear anything and everything you can tell me. Discuss.
Also, I am setting up a poll

[Maikeru-sama]

If I had to have one of those receivers here is the order I would choose (remember, you not only get the player but the baggage as well):

Jerry Rice
Michael Irvin
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss

- Mike G.

[Roughneck]

If I had to have one of those receivers here is the order I would choose (remember, you not only get the player but the baggage as well):

Jerry Rice
Michael Irvin
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss

- Mike G.That's the correct order right there.

[Yeagermeister]

If I had to have one of those receivers here is the order I would choose (remember, you not only get the player but the baggage as well):

Jerry Rice
Michael Irvin
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss

- Mike G.
Rice has his baggage also.

[Roughneck]

Rice has his baggage also.He has less than the other three.

[Maikeru-sama]

Oh as far as Michael Irvin the player, very emotional player that definitely wore his emotions on his sleeves. He was the guy that got everybody fired up and was definitely the one with the best personality of the guys we call "the tripplets".

He could be seen on occassion going after the offensive coordinator on the sidelines and he readily admits it. He was a player that always gave 100% on the field and he always wanted the ball in his hands.

Besides a lack of speed, I just cant really think of any weakness Michael Irvin had on the field. He had great hands, had decent elusiveness and always brought 100%.

Also, people forget, the year he got her in Philadelphia,he was really having a down year and people were already begining to question whether he had lost it.

- Mike G.

[Maikeru-sama]

Rice has his baggage also.

Yeah, I know. Where do you think Terrell Owens got his tantrum throwing lesson.

There is nobody in the history of football I would take over Jerry Rice at the wide receiver position.

He could be a very big crybaby at times and is known for being very selfish, but what you get out of em on Sundays and Mondays overshadows all that.

I dont think Jerry Rice has any weaknesses....

- Mike G.

[blindzebra]

Oh as far as Michael Irvin the player, very emotional player that definitely wore his emotions on his sleeves. He was the guy that got everybody fired up and was definitely the one with the best personality of the guys we call "the tripplets".

He could be seen on occassion going after the offensive coordinator on the sidelines and he readily admits it. He was a player that always gave 100% on the field and he always wanted the ball in his hands.

Besides a lack of speed, I just cant really think of any weakness Michael Irvin had on the field. He had great hands, had decent elusiveness and always brought 100%.

Also, people forget, the year he got her in Philadelphia,he was really having a down year and people were already begining to question whether he had lost it.

- Mike G.

He was averaging 16.7 YPC with 3 TDs in 3 + games, not really a down year he just did not have a lot of catches. ;)

[Maikeru-sama]

He was averaging 16.7 YPC with 3 TDs in 3 + games, not really a down year he just did not have a lot of catches. ;)

When I watched the games at Texas Stadium and listened to what the guys here locally were saying, I remember them saying he was having a down year and questions arose whether or not he had lost a step.

Irvin never really had great touchdown production, but he was always a guy that got a lot of receptions.

10 Receptions in 4 games is a down year for a future hall of famer, just my opinion...

- Mike G.

[scottsp]

Michael Irvin STILL refers to Jerry Rice as " in cleats."

[jem88]

When I watched the games at Texas Stadium and listened to what the guys here locally were saying, I remember them saying he was having a down year and questions arose whether or not he had lost a step.

Irvin never really had great touchdown production, but he was always a guy that got a lot of receptions.

10 Receptions in 4 games is a down year for a future hall of famer, just my opinion...

- Mike G. The problem was that we had the biggest idiot in football history coaching us. Chan Gailey and his ridiculous formations were the reason for Irvin's numbers going down. God I couldn't stand Gailey!

[Maikeru-sama]

The problem was that we had the biggest idiot in football history coaching us. Chan Gailey and his ridiculous formations were the reason for Irvin's numbers going down. God I couldn't stand Gailey!

Yeah, there were many factors. I never go by numbers, I always go by experience....

Irvin was having a little trouble that year, I dont care what stats say, I remember seeing it and the local guys writing about him struggling...

Ray Lewis had 146 tackles this year, but when I visited the Ravens messageboard like I often did the week we played an opponent, they all were saying he was having an off year.

Sometimes a player has weak numbers but really had a great year.
Sometimes a player have seemingly above average numbers but really wasnt himself.

It goes both ways...

- Mike G.

[lurkercowboy]

Also, people forget, the year he got her in Philadelphia,he was really having a down year and people were already begining to question whether he had lost it.

- Mike G.

Yes, people forget it because it is not true. Irvin was not 'really having a down year."
He played only three full games in 99 and scored three touchdowns, including a crucial one against Washington in that opening day victory. The Dallas offense was really clicking in those three games also, scoring 41, 24 and 35 points. Gailey was spreading the ball around at that time, he ran more of an ensemble offense instead of featuring Irvin. Before the Eagle game, Clarence Hill was wondering how the presence of Ismail would affect Irvin's chances for a big FA payday following the 99 season.

[Chuck 54]

gee...talk about a bunch of homers....lol....anyone who wouldn't want Jerry Rice is loopy.

[Juke99]

C'mon fellas...Irvin over Rice?

Rice is not only the best receiver ever but it probably one of the top five players of all time...

And I loved the Playmaker...but Rice is the best WR the game has seen.

[TLW47]

I picked Michael because I'm a ridiculous homer but in reality I think Rice is a cut above. A small cut above but still better.

[Sarge]

Anyone who didn't pick Rice didn't see him play - period - end of story.

[lurkercowboy]

I'm not saying you did not hear the topic discussed, but ever since the last Super Bowl win, various media people discussed the "end of the line" for all three triplets on and off for years. For example, SI did a cover story with Emmitt's picture in 1997 with the caption, "Running on Empty." That kind of media speculation doesn't mean a thing. How many times did we hear that Aikman needed to retire because of the concussions?

For the first three games of 1999, Irvin was not holding the Cowboys back at all. It was the best three game span for offense that Dallas had seen in a while. His number of catches may have been lower than his usual standard, but defenses were keying on him leaving Ismail open. The main difference from years past is Ismail was better than Billy Davis, et al and Aikman had another viable option. Gailey's offense was all about throwing to the open man. With Ismail, Aikman did not have to force the ball to Irvin like before.

[ravidubey]

This is not an easy question, and I guess it stems from spanning different generations. Moss is a jerk, so that hurts his ranking regardless of era.

Jerry Rice was great in his time, but I wonder whether he would have had the same degree of success elsewhere than SF or in today's league. I think he would have excelled regardless, but I rarely remember him carrying his team on his back (beyond his breathtaking game in the 88/89 Superbowl). Ditto Michael Irvin. When did Irvin carry the Cowboys with his play on the field? Both were dominant workers, excellent talents, and huge factors in their respective teams' successes.

But what about when they played against the very best defenses? Dallas had Emmitt and SF had Montana. Yes both Irvin and Rice had their b_tches they would slap around like Arizona and Atlanta, but Terrell Owens has absolutely lit up every kind of competition in a very pass-happy NFL world.

When Rice went down in 1997 the 49ers barely skipped a beat because Terrell Owens was on that team.

Owens has it all, personality, work ethic, size, and unbelievable talent. Had he not been on average 49er teams with dinkanddunk passers most of his career, I believe he could have led a team to multiple Superbowl trophies. Yeah, he's a show-off, but not because Michael Irvin didn't show him the way!

My ranking goes:

1 Terrell Owens
2 Jerry Rice
3 Michael Irvin
4 Randy Moss

[Maikeru-sama]

I'm not saying you did not hear the topic discussed, but ever since the last Super Bowl win, various media people discussed the "end of the line" for all three triplets on and off for years. For example, SI did a cover story with Emmitt's picture in 1997 with the caption, "Running on Empty." That kind of media speculation doesn't mean a thing. How many times did we hear that Aikman needed to retire because of the concussions?

For the first three games of 1999, Irvin was not holding the Cowboys back at all. It was the best three game span for offense that Dallas had seen in a while. His number of catches may have been lower than his usual standard, but defenses were keying on him leaving Ismail open. The main difference from years past is Ismail was better than Billy Davis, et al and Aikman had another viable option. Gailey's offense was all about throwing to the open man. With Ismail, Aikman did not have to force the ball to Irvin like before.

Okay, how did saying Irvin was having a down year translate into me saying he "he was holding the team back"?

Beleive what you want, I attended 2 of those games and I remember that was the hot topic here in Dallas.

It's 10 till 5 in Dallas, to that means it's quiting time....

- Mike G.

[Hostile]

Jerry Rice is the best football player I have ever seen. Not just best WR, best player period.


Side note I think it would be highly appropriate if he and Emmitt hung them up in the same year and went into the HOF together. The All time RB and WR.

[Big D]

Side note I think it would be highly appropriate if he and Emmitt hung them up in the same year and went into the HOF together. The All time RB and WR.


I was thinking the same thing.. That would be sweet.

[Cajuncowboy]

I will take heart and soul and production over Production and whinning everyday. Give me the playmaker.

That's another thing. The nicknames.

Who would rather have?
Playmaker or Fifi?

[Tio]

This is not an easy question, and I guess it stems from spanning different generations. Moss is a jerk, so that hurts his ranking regardless of era.

Jerry Rice was great in his time, but I wonder whether he would have had the same degree of success elsewhere than SF or in today's league. I think he would have excelled regardless, but I rarely remember him carrying his team on his back (beyond his breathtaking game in the 88/89 Superbowl). Ditto Michael Irvin. When did Irvin carry the Cowboys with his play on the field? Both were dominant workers, excellent talents, and huge factors in their respective teams' successes.

But what about when they played against the very best defenses? Dallas had Emmitt and SF had Montana. Yes both Irvin and Rice had their b_tches they would slap around like Arizona and Atlanta, but Terrell Owens has absolutely lit up every kind of competition in a very pass-happy NFL world.

When Rice went down in 1997 the 49ers barely skipped a beat because Terrell Owens was on that team.

Owens has it all, personality, work ethic, size, and unbelievable talent. Had he not been on average 49er teams with dinkanddunk passers most of his career, I believe he could have led a team to multiple Superbowl trophies. Yeah, he's a show-off, but not because Michael Irvin didn't show him the way!

My ranking goes:

1 Terrell Owens
2 Jerry Rice
3 Michael Irvin
4 Randy MossWere you old enough to see Rice in his prime?

[Sarge]

I will take heart and soul and production over Production and whinning everyday. Give me the playmaker.

That's another thing. The nicknames.

Who would rather have?
Playmaker or Fifi?

Heart and soul?

Are you serious?

Jerry Rice had (and still has) the most vicious offseason workouts there is.

The guy has been playing since 1962 for cryin' out loud.

Michael may have been more outspoken, but when you say heart and soul, Jerry had it - big time.

This is coming from a guy who doesn't particularly like Jerry Rice.

I certainly respect him as a player though - he is the king when it comes to WR and like Hos said - he is one of the best players ever to suit up in the NFL and I mean no disrespect to Michael whatsoever, I love the guy.

Jerry was a sick WR.

[Hostile]

Heart and soul?

Are you serious?

Jerry Rice had (and still has) the most vicious offseason workouts there is.

The guy has been playing since 1962 for cryin' out loud.

Michael may have been more outspoken, but when you say heart and soul, Jerry had it - big time.

This is coming from a guy who doesn't particularly like Jerry Rice.

I certainly respect him as a player though - he is the king when it comes to WR and like Hos said - he is one of the best players ever to suit up in the NFL and I mean no disrespect to Michael whatsoever, I love the guy.

Jerry was a sick WR.Michael Irvin himself calls Jerry the greatest ever. I tend to think he would be a good source.

[Roughneck]

Jerry Rice had (and still has) the most vicious offseason workouts there is.Truer words may have never been spoken. I forget who it was but one of the Best/Top Conditioned players in the entire NFL a few years back decided to actually participate in Rice's workout program. If I recall correctly, dude didn't even make it through one whole workout.

[Sarge]

Truer words may have never been spoken. I forget who it was but one of the Best/Top Conditioned players in the entire NFL a few years back decided to actually participate in Rice's workout program. If I recall correctly, dude didn't even make it through one whole workout.

Jerry was a warrior, dedicated and true.

In fact, when I think 'heart and soul', I think Jerry Rice.

The best WR ever to play the game. Simple.

[Bizwah]

Jerry Rice.......easily.

But Irvin would be number two........easily.

I've heard folks compare Irvin and Owens and their antics on the field. But remember one thing. Owens does his "thing" to promote himself. Irvin did his "thing" to inspire his team.

As far as Irvin having a "down" year when he got hurt.......Well, it's tough to tell.

He had a HUGE game against Washington. That was the "Comeback" game. Irvin had two TDs, including the one that tied the game. He also had a thirty yard TD or so............

He had an ok game against the Falcons the next week. But Atlanta wasn't a slouch of a team. They were coming off a SB berth. The third week he had a TD catch against AZ in a blow-out win. He was hurt the next game.

So it's impossible to tell how good of a year he had had. He had two down years before that, but that was with Billy Davis and Anthony Miller as the number two guy. In Irvin's last year, he finally had a stud number two receiver.

We were the number one offense in the league at that point, I believe. I also remember Dallas being rated number one in several power rating polls.

ahhhh....I often wonder "What could've been" with that team. I think Irvin would've benefited a great deal with Ismail on the other side. We would never have made the Galloway trade..........

I'll have to stop there........too painful.

[Skip]

The thing about M. Irvin was he was the heart beat of the team. He was the driving force!

I know he had his faults, but he also inspired the team with his emotions. He was the Playmaker, the cheerleader, the pulse!
I am sure many think Rice was the better receiver,and by numbers maybe he was, but he was not the same as Irvin in that Irvin imposed his will on both sides of the ball. Irvin was more than a pass catcher.

[lurkercowboy]

Okay, how did saying Irvin was having a down year translate into me saying he "he was holding the team back"?

Beleive what you want, I attended 2 of those games and I remember that was the hot topic here in Dallas.

It's 10 till 5 in Dallas, to that means it's quiting time....

- Mike G.

How can an aging superstar "having a down year" be helping his team? Usually when that happens, it hurts the team. People had been saying "the end is near" about each of the triplets for a while at that point in time. Emmit's supposed decline was a 'hot topic" in Dallas two years prior.

How old are you by the way? I'm not trying to be unfriendly here after all you make some of the best observations on this board.

[lurkercowboy]

But what about when they played against the very best defenses? Dallas had Emmitt and SF had Montana. Yes both Irvin and Rice had their b_tches they would slap around like Arizona and Atlanta, but Terrell Owens has absolutely lit up every kind of competition in a very pass-happy NFL world.


Ravi, Irvin torched Daryl Green and Deion at times, I'm sure you recall. Irvin also dominated against top competition in big games. Sure he ran up numbers against Arizona like everyone else, but he also had big playoff numbers. I'm not saying he was better than Rice or Owens, but he was darn good overall.

[BlueStar22]

well, there have been a couple media guys on the radio that are in jacksonville and have been gauging the intent of voters. All media members don't feel good about Irvin's chances this year. The media members that i've heard said they felt good about Irvin's chances before they got to Jacksonville but after speaking with a few voters, they got the feeling that it'ls going to be a very divided room when voting time comes. One said she's heard talk of the off-the-field stuff being talked about.

[big dog cowboy]

The thing about M. Irvin was he was the heart beat of the team. He was the driving force!

I know he had his faults, but he also inspired the team with his emotions. He was the Playmaker, the cheerleader, the pulse!
I am sure many think Rice was the better receiver,and by numbers maybe he was, but he was not the same as Irvin in that Irvin imposed his will on both sides of the ball. Irvin was more than a pass catcher.
He did get excited didn't he. What we lost when he retired has NOT been replaced.

[Maikeru-sama]

How can an aging superstar "having a down year" be helping his team? Usually when that happens, it hurts the team. People had been saying "the end is near" about each of the triplets for a while at that point in time. Emmit's supposed decline was a 'hot topic" in Dallas two years prior.

How old are you by the way? I'm not trying to be unfriendly here after all you make some of the best observations on this board.

You make a great point. We would never know if Mike Irvin would have put up some of the same numbers he did in his prime if he had not got hurt. When I thought about 1999, I just reminder that was one of the biggest topics going on. I dont know if it was true, I just remember that was being discussed around these parts.

So I am going to back off the topic a little bit, must have been a little over-anxious because I was at work :).

I know Mike said his biggest regret was that he did not catch 1000 balls. But I dont even think it is worth putting Irvin and Rice in the same group, there is just no comparison, Rice is/was that good.

Also, if you guys remember, Irvin was the one that made Deion Sanders a household name in college. He use to talk about it all the time when he was playing and they still joke about it when they get together on television. I dont think there is a funnier pair of guys that get together on television than Dieon and Mike, the only ones that come close as far as making you laugh when they get together is Shannon Sharpe and his brother Sterling Sharpe.

Sterling btw, was one of the best receiver I have ever seen as well, but that is jmo.

Im 82 btw :cool: .

- Mike G.

[Maikeru-sama]

Ravi, Irvin torched Daryl Green and Deion at times, I'm sure you recall. Irvin also dominated against top competition in big games. Sure he ran up numbers against Arizona like everyone else, but he also had big playoff numbers. I'm not saying he was better than Rice or Owens, but he was darn good overall.

Yes sir.

Dont forget he use to own Bobby Taylor and Mr. Aeneas Williams as well. Both of those guys, especially Bobby Taylor gained alot of props for the battles they had against Irvin. I think Taylor had more success than Williams did though.

I forget the one game against Arizona where the Cards were winning pretty much the entire game and then the Boys started to come back and Irvin caught like 3 passes on the drive and then caught the winning touchdown and spiked the ball hard as hell. I think that was maybe in 98 or so and I think it may have been an overtime game, just cant remember.

- Mike G.

[Cajuncowboy]

Heart and soul?

Are you serious?

Jerry Rice had (and still has) the most vicious offseason workouts there is.

The guy has been playing since 1962 for cryin' out loud.

Michael may have been more outspoken, but when you say heart and soul, Jerry had it - big time.

This is coming from a guy who doesn't particularly like Jerry Rice.

I certainly respect him as a player though - he is the king when it comes to WR and like Hos said - he is one of the best players ever to suit up in the NFL and I mean no disrespect to Michael whatsoever, I love the guy.

Jerry was a sick WR.

The 49ers didn't miss a beat if Rice had a bad day or was hurt. When Michael was out the whole team was off. HE was the heart and soul of this team. Jerry was not that to the 9ers. Yes, he is probably the best Wr ever. But to be a complete football player there needs to be a bit more of a fire. No, even the great Jerry Rice had more fire than Michael.

I respect what he has done and, as I said, is one of if not the best ever. But when you are asking who would you rather have as a WR, I'll take the guy who proved that the team couldn't win without him. That is how important he was to the Cowboys.

[Maikeru-sama]

Just curious, when did the team win without Irvin?

I actually think the loss of Novacek could be just as equal as Mike's loss.

I personally think Emmitt was the engine behind big blue.

- Mike G.

[ravidubey]

Holy... guys I'm a HUGE Irvin fan and no one has to go over his or Jerry Rice's endless highlight reels and intangibles.

The question was knowing the skills and qualities of a player who do you choose to start a franchise with.

The WR position is hard to judge because WR's depend so much on their QB's. Rice and Irvin, being #1 draft choices, have always been in situations where they can demand the football and that helped them to grow as players, their successes (and pedigree) gained the confidence of their teammates, and so on from their.

Owens was a 4th round draft pick from a small school playing as a rookie in Rice's shadow the year after one of Rice's greatest seasons. Owens exceled, immediately passed the more highly touted JJ Stokes on the depth chart, and soon began getting the ball instead of Rice. When Rice got hurt, the 49ers offense didn't miss a beat-- they had Owens. In 2000, when the team was coming off an awful 1999 season with a new QB named Garcia, Owens responded with three consecutive dominant 90+ catch seasons and led the team to a new (albeit brief) resurgence.

Rice and Irvin are Hall of Famers, but I think Owens will be too one day. I start my team with TO.

[boysfanindc]

What A bunch of homers, get real anyone that would take Irvin (as great as he was for us) over Rice does not understand football.

[Cajuncowboy]

What A bunch of homers, get real anyone that would take Irvin (as great as he was for us) over Rice does not understand football.

And it is for the very reason that I would take him. Because without Irvin we struggled. I thought the question was would we have rather had Rice or Irvin. Rice was complemented in SF by John Taylor. Mike was complimented by, Kevin williams? Alvin Harper? C'mon, Mike ment more to this team than Jerry did to SF. That's the point. Mikes effectiveness was missed much more than Rices was in SF.

[boysfanindc]

And it is for the very reason that I would take him. Because without Irvin we struggled. I thought the question was would we have rather had Rice or Irvin. Rice was complemented in SF by John Taylor. Mike was complimented by, Kevin williams? Alvin Harper? C'mon, Mike ment more to this team than Jerry did to SF. That's the point. Mikes effectiveness was missed much more than Rices was in SF.

Mike was also complemented by Emmitt, Jay, Johnson etc. etc.

Is there any question that Jerry was the best receiver ever in the history of the NFL. I don't see how there good be, he was the best that ever was.

Both Jerry and Michael were complemented by very good teams. But Jerry was incredible while Michael was very very good.

[Danny White]

I'm sure Mike appreciates the loyalty... but it isn't even close. It's Rice by a good margin.

And honestly, look at the numbers Moss and Owens have put up thus far in their careers... it's ridiculous. I always will have a soft spot for the Playmaker, but he is likely the #4 reciever on this list. Those two punks (Moss and Owens) may go down as two of the greatest ever.

If they never win a championship, they'll never pass Rice, but when all is said and done, they will have posted some insane stats.

[Cajuncowboy]

I'm sure Mike appreciates the loyalty... but it isn't even close. It's Rice by a good margin.

And honestly, look at the numbers Moss and Owens have put up thus far in their careers... it's ridiculous. I always will have a soft spot for the Playmaker, but he is likely the #4 reciever on this list. Those two punks (Moss and Owens) may go down as two of the greatest ever.

If they never win a championship, they'll never pass Rice, but when all is said and done, they will have posted some insane stats.

If you take the time in which they played the majority of their careers, Moss and Owens have benefited from the new "No touchy" rule. It's like men playing with boys out there becasue they are not covered like Mike and Jerry were. And I didn't say Mike was a better wr. I said I would rather have him than Rice because he meant more to the team chemistry wise than Rice did to his team. Emmitt and troy were great but the team struggled when Mike went down.

[Maikeru-sama]

I'm sure Mike appreciates the loyalty... but it isn't even close. It's Rice by a good margin.

And honestly, look at the numbers Moss and Owens have put up thus far in their careers... it's ridiculous. I always will have a soft spot for the Playmaker, but he is likely the #4 reciever on this list. Those two punks (Moss and Owens) may go down as two of the greatest ever.

If they never win a championship, they'll never pass Rice, but when all is said and done, they will have posted some insane stats.

Yep!!!

And there is one guy on the list who I think is better or as good as three players on that list playing right now and that is Marvin Harrison. Physically, Moss may be the most gifted Receiver but remember, you get the baggage as well and Mike's baggage never leaked onto the field. That is why I would take Irvin over Moss, but 3-4 years from now, I would probably take T.O. over Irvin.

- Mike G.

[boysfanindc]

Marvin Harrison is a very good receiver, he may even put up better numbers then Irvin, but he has yet to prove he can come up with the big game in a big game.

He is yet to prove he can force his will on a game when it counts, until he does he will not be condsidered great.

Actually the same could be said about TO & Moss.

[TwoDeep3]

Kevin Smith intimidated the crap out of Rice in two NFC Championship games.

Sorry, call me a homer if you like.

I take Irvin over any WR that ever played the game.

[boysfanindc]

Kevin Smith intimidated the crap out of Rice in two NFC Championship games.

Sorry, call me a homer if you like.

I take Irvin over any WR that ever played the game.

You are definately a homer.

[The Curly One]

"I'm sure Mike appreciates the loyalty... but it isn't even close. It's Rice by a good margin.

And honestly, look at the numbers Moss and Owens have put up thus far in their careers... it's ridiculous. I always will have a soft spot for the Playmaker, but he is likely the #4 reciever on this list. Those two punks (Moss and Owens) may go down as two of the greatest ever.

If they never win a championship, they'll never pass Rice, but when all is said and done, they will have posted some insane stats."

1. Jerry Rice Duh!
2. Randy Moss
3. Terrel Owens (Moss and Owens could change in the next few years of their careees but they will never pass Rice)
4. Michael Irvin. He was good but not ever as good as Rice plus Owens and Moss still have many good years ahead.
I do not think Michael Irvin will get in the Hall of Fame either. Jerry Rice is a sure thing first ballot. Curly

[Sarge]

And it is for the very reason that I would take him. Because without Irvin we struggled. I thought the question was would we have rather had Rice or Irvin. Rice was complemented in SF by John Taylor. Mike was complimented by, Kevin williams? Alvin Harper? C'mon, Mike ment more to this team than Jerry did to SF. That's the point. Mikes effectiveness was missed much more than Rices was in SF.

That speaks more to the teams, not the Irvin vs. Rice.

Did Dallas struggle without Irvin?

Of course.

Was rice complimented by Taylor and TO?

Yes.

How that gets turned into "I'd rather have Irvin over Rice" to me, doesn't make sense.

Rice is not only better than Michael, he is the best ever.

Michael is not even in the top 5 WR's of all time.

I understand the homerism and I certainly respect everyone's opinion here, but for me - this is one of the easiest questions ever posed on this board.

I love Michael. He is on of my alltime favorite Cowboys...........

........but Jerry Rice is the king.