Apple topples Microsoft's throne

[vta]

Link (http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/26/technology/apple_microsoft/index.htm?hpt=C1)

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Microsoft's dominance as the tech industry's most valuable player has ended.

On Wednesday, Apple's market capitalization edged past its longtime rival's as investors made official what consumers have long suggested: Microsoft is no longer the industry's alpha dog. Just last month, Microsoft's market cap exceeded Apple's by about $25 billion, but now Apple is in the lead by nearly $3 billion.

Microsoft's consumer products business is struggling to compete as Apple's hot new items like iPad and iPhone capture the attention of customers. Microsoft (MSFT, Fortune 500) fell 4% to close at $25.01 on Wednesday, while Apple (AAPL, Fortune 500) lost 0.45%, closing at $244.11.

Shares of Microsoft have dipped more than 15% in the past couple weeks, while Apple's stock is down just over 6%, despite recent market volatility. "What this really means is that Wall Street has more confidence in Apple's growth prospects than it does in Microsoft's growth prospects," said Matt Rosoff, lead analyst at Directions on Microsoft, an independent firm.

"Apple is showing high growth, with the launch of its iPad and its new iPhone coming out, and while Windows is a great competitor versus the Mac, Microsoft just hasn't come up with new areas of growth." Microsoft's reputation as a market leader took another hit Tuesday when the company announced that it plans to shake up its management structure.

...

[Kangaroo]

Link (http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/26/technology/apple_microsoft/index.htm?hpt=C1)

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Microsoft's dominance as the tech industry's most valuable player has ended.

On Wednesday, Apple's market capitalization edged past its longtime rival's as investors made official what consumers have long suggested: Microsoft is no longer the industry's alpha dog. Just last month, Microsoft's market cap exceeded Apple's by about $25 billion, but now Apple is in the lead by nearly $3 billion.

Microsoft's consumer products business is struggling to compete as Apple's hot new items like iPad and iPhone capture the attention of customers. Microsoft (MSFT, Fortune 500) fell 4% to close at $25.01 on Wednesday, while Apple (AAPL, Fortune 500) lost 0.45%, closing at $244.11.

Shares of Microsoft have dipped more than 15% in the past couple weeks, while Apple's stock is down just over 6%, despite recent market volatility. "What this really means is that Wall Street has more confidence in Apple's growth prospects than it does in Microsoft's growth prospects," said Matt Rosoff, lead analyst at Directions on Microsoft, an independent firm.

"Apple is showing high growth, with the launch of its iPad and its new iPhone coming out, and while Windows is a great competitor versus the Mac, Microsoft just hasn't come up with new areas of growth." Microsoft's reputation as a market leader took another hit Tuesday when the company announced that it plans to shake up its management structure.

...

Microsoft consumer products division has always sucked other than the xbox they put out crap. Windows Mobile sucks big balls Google Droid destroys it on so many levels, XP embedded etc why when people are taking Linux kernels and making them into mobile OS cheaper than the Microsoft licensing fee for any of the Microsoft embedded stuff. There phones are crap and their marketing in this side sucks as well.

On to apple I am not that impressed we have 5 of those pads and all acts like is a big Itouch. They are very limited in usefulness

[theogt]

Apple's current valuation seems a bit silly to me, but what do I know.

[Kangaroo]

Apple's current valuation seems a bit silly to me, but what do I know.

I have to agree but people are buying into the hype. I do not see it but more power to them if I had their stock i sell it for large profit to the idiots gobbling it up at that price

[trickblue]

This is REALLY gonna piss off nyc... ;)

[vta]

On to apple I am not that impressed we have 5 of those pads and all acts like is a big Itouch. They are very limited in usefulness

Where you work? I'm surprised a company would buy them, they don't seem very useful as business machines.

[Romo 2 Austin]

Where you work? I'm surprised a company would buy them, they don't seem very useful as business machines.

Put em in lunchroom to read email?

[Kangaroo]

Where you work? I'm surprised a company would buy them, they don't seem very useful as business machines.

Doctors which have no clue they are not very useful they see some neat gizmo and they want it. The only good thing to come out of it is now I can RDP into my workstation from my Droid Phone

[vta]

Put em in lunchroom to read email?

If anyone at my company suggested I read email while I'm on lunch, I'd break that iPad over someone's head.

[Kangaroo]

Put em in lunchroom to read email?

That is worse apples interface into Exchange is a pile of headaches. Then you have to lock them down to keep from having them walk off defeating the entire purpose of being portable.

Nope For email I put a citric client with a flat panel and publish from citrix. Now I have a lockdown environment that does what I need and has less of a footprint to be hacked in a place like a lunch room. There are about 5 ways to do it in this method you could also go go streaming desktop or VM that connect back to servers on the back end etc

Yea from a big picture thing bad idea and the support just got a lot eaiser with the dumb terminal

[Sam I Am]

The last stock I would own right now is Apple. That **** is so freaking overpriced it's stupid.

Apple is mainly a niche market and it has the biggest market cap? That is flat out ignorant.

[Maikeru-sama]

Oh, something tells me that Ol Bill Gates will be fine.

[big dog cowboy]

Oh, something tells me that Ol Bill Gates will be fine.
The kids don't have to worry about their inheritance do they.

[theogt]

The last stock I would own right now is Apple. That **** is so freaking overpriced it's stupid.

Apple is mainly a niche market and it has the biggest market cap? That is flat out ignorant.$14 billion in revenue and nearly $60 billion in assets for a niche market?

It has a higher P/E than Microsoft (20 vs. 12) because it's viewed as a growth stock. And given it's recent trends, that's logical.

[vta]

The last stock I would own right now is Apple. That **** is so freaking overpriced it's stupid.

Apple is mainly a niche market and it has the biggest market cap? That is flat out ignorant.

Right now? Yeah, that's why my cousin sold his. If I had been as shrewd as he, I would have also bought it $13.00 a share and made a bundle. :laugh2:

It's no worse really than Google, which doesn't even sell a tangible product. It amazes me that they can be so powerful, yet afford nothing substantial really. No hardware, not even industry standard softwares. Just a search engine, a browser and a mobile phone OS. Incredible.

[Doomsday]

Right now? Yeah, that's why my cousin sold his. If I had been as shrewd as he, I would have also bought it $13.00 a share and made a bundle. :laugh2:

It's no worse really than Google, which doesn't even sell a tangible product. It amazes me that they can be so powerful, yet afford nothing substantial really. No hardware, not even industry standard software. Just a search engine, a browser and a mobile phone OS. Incredible.

They are quite a bit more then that. Google Mail, maps, adwords and other apps are being used by millions. They have a lot of great tools for small businesses to use. Being able to share and collaborate on version controlled word / excel equivalent documents with co workers and clients is very powerful and useful. Just cause they generate revenue with out charging for their applications doesnt mean they dont have tangible products, their map api is incredible.

[vta]

They are quite a bit more then that. Google Mail, maps, adwords and other apps are being used by millions. They have a lot of great tools for small businesses to use. Being able to share and collaborate on version controlled word / excel equivalent documents with co workers and clients is very powerful and useful. Just cause they generate revenue with out charging for their applications doesnt mean they dont have tangible products, their map api is incredible.

All good practical software, I'm sure, but when compared to powerhouses that provide industry standard products, it's really nothing short of amazing that it is as valuable as it is: Adobe is an industry standard, no part of the digital visual world moves forward without it. It's value is understandable. Microsoft an entire platform, Apple actual hardware and a platform, etc. all provide things businesses would be crippled without at this point.

Really, without these things Google is a dead fish and has no real value. Without Google, all those things still serve a purpose.

Same goes for Facebook. It's not publicly traded, but it's value is ridiculous. That is niche market if I'd ever seen it.

[Sam I Am]

$14 billion in revenue and nearly $60 billion in assets for a niche market?

It has a higher P/E than Microsoft (20 vs. 12) because it's viewed as a growth stock. And given it's recent trends, that's logical.

Yes, niche. Apple only has 3.6% of the entire PC market share. iPod sales themselves will overall weaken being replaced by smartphones. Enter iPhone. It begin cannibalizing the generic iPod sales.

Apple has been a market sweetheart due to margins. Enter Android. Apple begins using cheaper hardware to increase margins due to the heavy competition from Android. Android now is outselling the iPhone (http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/News/MostRead/1004757/Android-sales-rising-faster-Apples/). Not only is it outselling the iPhone, the iPhone sales are actually declining percentage wise while Android is booming.

As you can see here, Android is actually stealing market share from everyone.

http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/files/2010/05/npd-mobile-os-.png


You know what happens now right? More money gets spent on development to try and keep up with the incredibly rapid development of Android, more money spent on advertising, money spent on lawyers to start attacking competitors with law suits (http://www.pcworld.com/article/190590/apple_sues_htc.html), money spent on lawyers due to getting law suits in return (1 (http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2010/05/12/nokia-sue-apple-in-new-rocket-docket-the-w-d-of-wisconsin/id=10443/), 2 (http://www.slashgear.com/htc-sue-apple-petition-itc-to-freeze-us-iphone-ipad-ipod-imports-1285396/), 3 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7588825/Adobe-to-sue-Apple-over-Flash-row.html)) a company starts doing "questionable things" to try and protect what it has, and then the goverment starts investigating for antitrust (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1650721/apple-investigated-antitrust-violations). Then we all know what happens. Margins size starts to slip due to declining sales and much higher spending, when margins slip, so does stock price.

If you want to hang on to that bloated stock, go right ahead.

[theogt]

Apple doesn't care about market share. They care about profit share. Google can gain market share, but isn't gaining profit share.

[Hoofbite]

I wonder how much of the dip in iPhone sales has to do with everyone in the world knowing that a new one is going to be announced in about 12 days.

[Sam I Am]

Apple doesn't care about market share. They care about profit share. Google can gain market share, but isn't gaining profit share.

:lmao2:

They do for the fact that it's cutting into their profits! Why do you think they are trying to sue HTC? Cause Google is starting to kick their *** and take their market share AND profits.

[Everlastingxxx]

I love macs. I love all things apple. I would never buy a PC (piece of crap). Sorry.

[Sam I Am]

I love macs. I love all things apple. I would never buy a PC (piece of crap). Sorry.

A Mac *IS* a PC. ;) I just prefer to run Linux on my PC.

PC stands for Personal Computer.

[Kangaroo]

I love macs. I love all things apple. I would never buy a PC (piece of crap). Sorry.

You do realize Mac nows use the same hardware as Dell, Hp etc they moved away from the RISC processor to the standard x86 chipset they oversell their hardware when the only difference now is the OS. They use to run a different hardware set they where off branch chipset similar to the highend solaris and sun systems use to run and still run on some of their systems. They went to x86 because they could still overcharge people for the same hardware make bigger margins by overpricing their hardware.

I understand people like their OS but I always find it funny when Mac user start spouting off about superior hardware when it is the same

[Hoofbite]

You do realize Mac nows use the same hardware as Dell, Hp etc they moved away from the RISC processor to the standard x86 chipset they oversell their hardware when the only difference now is the OS. They use to run a different hardware set they where off branch chipset similar to the highend solaris and sun systems use to run and still run on some of their systems. They went to x86 because they could still overcharge people for the same hardware make bigger margins by overpricing their hardware.

I understand people like their OS but I always find it funny when Mac user start spouting off about superior hardware when it is the same

I'm going on year 3 of my Mac. No problems at all.

I had a Dell before for this 3 years. Dell Laptop. Monitor, DVD Burner, Hard Drive all went out in that time span.

If the hardware is the same, I'll gladly pay Apple for it to not blow up.

[Bob Sacamano]

*backs out of nerd war*

[Sam I Am]

I'm going on year 3 of my Mac. No problems at all.

I had a Dell before for this 3 years. Dell Laptop. Monitor, DVD Burner, Hard Drive all went out in that time span.

If the hardware is the same, I'll gladly pay Apple for it to not blow up.

Buy the higher end Dell machines that are still far cheaper than a mac and you wont have that problem.

I find it funny when people tell me they bought a $499 laptop and wonder why it sucks. Spend a few extra dollars and get better quality hardware.

That doesn't mean you have to overpay like you do with apple's large margins to get quality.

[Hoofbite]

Buy the higher end Dell machines that are still far cheaper than a mac and you wont have that problem.

I find it funny when people tell me they bought a $499 laptop and wonder why it sucks. Spend a few extra dollars and get better quality hardware.

That doesn't mean you have to overpay like you do with apple's large margins to get quality.

I've said this before. I paid damn near the same price for both machines.

I actually think the Dell was more expensive.

My Dell was like 1500. Mac was around the same after upgrading the ram and purchasing the Apple Care plan.

[theogt]

Apple doesn't care about market share. They care about profit share. Google can gain market share, but isn't gaining profit share.

:lmao2:

They do for the fact that it's cutting into their profits! Why do you think they are trying to sue HTC? Cause Google is starting to kick their *** and take their market share AND profits.You don't read too well do you?

[burmafrd]

Apple will pop. Its just a matter of time. They never can go more then a coouple of years without doing something stupid. To try and claim Apple is more valuable then Microsoft is just another reason reality never is a factor in stocks. Who has 90% of the market? Who has the real clout?

[Sam I Am]

You don't read too well do you?

So you don't think market share has anything to do with profits? Their margin is already being eroded. Android is going to crush them because Apple has no way to keep up with how quickly Android is innovating because they are completely closed. That on top of the fact that they want to dictate what their customers can and can't have.

Have you seen the truth?

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KAOm04sFXhw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KAOm04sFXhw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Apple is going to follow the same exact path they took last time. They are going to crumble to the competition. The only way they survived last time was their hard core fanboys.

This is the mistake Steve Jobs can't seem to avoid. Rinse and repeat. Apples downfall has already begun.

Steve Jobs is an incredibly smart man, but he is also an extremely greedy man.

Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

Enter Steve Jobs.

[SultanOfSix]

Apple is going to follow the same exact path they took last time. They are going to crumble to the competition. The only way they survived last time was their hard core fanboys.

This is the mistake Steve Jobs can't seem to avoid. Rinse and repeat. Apples downfall has already begun.

Steve Jobs is an incredibly smart man, but he is also an extremely greedy man.

Enter Steve Jobs.

From http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2010/05/24/android-overtaking-iphone-os-jobs-says-%E2%80%9Cnot-a-chance-%E2%80%9D/

"There were earlier reports that Google’s Android operating system overtaking the iPhone OS, as reported by us (here); however apparently Apple Guru Steve Jobs thinks otherwise.

According to an article over on Jobs’ best loved website, the iPhone 4G leaking Gizmodo, the iPhone chief was contacted by a guy called Brian that brought attention to a certain article posted by Gizmodo titled “Google Is Leapfrogging Apple.”

Well apparently Brian received a reply from Mr. Jobs. I do have to say at this point for the top guy of such a massive company he does tend to push out a few emails to ordinary people, if they are to be believed of course.

Anyway back to what Steve apparently replied, his email response was short and to the point…”Not a chance.”

Now of course even if Mr Jobs says there’s no chance Android is besting the iPhone OS, it doesn’t make it so as according to the figures Android is indeed overtaking iPhone; however, with WWDC soon to be upon us and the expected iPhone 4G along with iPhone OS 4.0 that could soon change."

[theogt]

So you don't think market share has anything to do with profits? Their margin is already being eroded. Android is going to crush them because Apple has no way to keep up with how quickly Android is innovating because they are completely closed. That on top of the fact that they want to dictate what their customers can and can't have.

Have you seen the truth?

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KAOm04sFXhw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KAOm04sFXhw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Apple is going to follow the same exact path they took last time. They are going to crumble to the competition. The only way they survived last time was their hard core fanboys.

This is the mistake Steve Jobs can't seem to avoid. Rinse and repeat. Apples downfall has already begun.

Steve Jobs is an incredibly smart man, but he is also an extremely greedy man.



Enter Steve Jobs.:laugh2:

[Sam I Am]

Now of course even if Mr Jobs says there’s no chance Android is besting the iPhone OS, it doesn’t make it so as according to the figures Android is indeed overtaking iPhone; however, with WWDC soon to be upon us and the expected iPhone 4G along with iPhone OS 4.0 that could soon change."

Yep, and there are I believe at least 5 more Android phones coming out AND the Nexus One will soon be sold by phone companies rather than direct from Google therefore boosting Android sales even more.

As for what Jobs says, what is he going to say? "Yep, Android is kicking our ***. All the lawsuits to stop them is only because we like to sue people and get sued in return for every other technology company out there."

When the G4 comes out, sure there will be a boost in sales. Thats what happens. Sales don't drop on new releases, they always rise. Hell, even train wrecks like Windows Vista. Sales initially rose when it came out. They tailed off afterward due to it being a piss poor product. (not that Apple makes piss poor products)

[Everlastingxxx]

A Mac *IS* a PC. ;) I just prefer to run Linux on my PC.

PC stands for Personal Computer.

Yea, i know what PC stands for. Was a joke.


You do realize Mac nows use the same hardware as Dell, Hp etc they moved away from the RISC processor to the standard x86 chipset they oversell their hardware when the only difference now is the OS. They use to run a different hardware set they where off branch chipset similar to the highend solaris and sun systems use to run and still run on some of their systems. They went to x86 because they could still overcharge people for the same hardware make bigger margins by overpricing their hardware.

I understand people like their OS but I always find it funny when Mac user start spouting off about superior hardware when it is the same

I have no idea what you are talking about. I *work* on Macs. I don’t build them. I can update my ram, graphics card, drive...that’s about it. I have a $5 thousand dollar Mac Pro. I love it and it gets the job done for me. If you enjoy your PC, all the power to you.

[SultanOfSix]

Yep, and there are I believe at least 5 more Android phones coming out AND the Nexus One will soon be sold by phone companies rather than direct from Google therefore boosting Android sales even more.

As for what Jobs says, what is he going to say? "Yep, Android is kicking our ***. All the lawsuits to stop them is only because we like to sue people and get sued in return for every other technology company out there."

When the G4 comes out, sure there will be a boost in sales. Thats what happens. Sales don't drop on new releases, they always rise. Hell, even train wrecks like Windows Vista. Sales initially rose when it came out. They tailed off afterward due to it being a piss poor product. (not that Apple makes piss poor products)

If I remember correctly, though, Apple crumbled because they fired Steve Jobs, and they surged again because they rehired him. Steve was never the reason for its downfall.

I don't own any Apple products (I might purchase the IPad), but his track record speaks for himself.

[Sam I Am]

If I remember correctly, though, Apple crumbled because they fired Steve Jobs, and they surged again because they rehired him. Steve was never the reason for its downfall.

I don't own any Apple products (I might purchase the IPad), but his track record speaks for himself.

Actually, the board of directors force him out because of what he was doing to the company. He is known for "creating products that people love, but then alienating everyone and everything." When you do that, people don't buy your stuff.

While Jobs was a persuasive and charismatic director for Apple, some of his employees from that time had described him as an erratic and temperamental manager. An industry-wide sales slump towards the end of 1984 caused a deterioration in Jobs's working relationship with Sculley, and at the end of May 1985 – following an internal power struggle and an announcement of significant layoffs – Sculley relieved Jobs of his duties as head of the Macintosh division

Apple was in this position back in the 80s and the damage was done then as its happening now.

When he left Apple he created NeXT. That didn't fair to well either with him at the helm. The guy is talented, but an obsessive maniac.


Around the same time, Jobs founded another computer company, NeXT Computer. Like the Apple Lisa, the NeXT workstation was technologically advanced; however, it was largely dismissed by industry as cost-prohibitive. Among those who could afford it, however, the NeXT workstation garnered a strong following because of its technical strengths, chief among them its object-oriented software development system. Jobs marketed NeXT products to the scientific and academic fields because of the innovative, experimental new technologies it incorporated (such as the Mach kernel, the digital signal processor chip, and the built-in Ethernet port).

=======================

Jobs ran NeXT with an obsession for aesthetic perfection, as evidenced by such things as the NeXTcube's magnesium case. This put considerable strain on NeXT's hardware division, and in 1993, after having sold only 50,000 machines, NeXT transitioned fully to software development with the release of NeXTSTEP/Intel.

[Hoofbite]

Actually, the board of directors force him out because of what he was doing to the company. He is known for "creating products that people love, but then alienating everyone and everything." When you do that, people don't buy your stuff.



Apple was in this position back in the 80s and the damage was done then as its happening now.

When he left Apple he created NeXT. That didn't fair to well either with him at the helm. The guy is talented, but an obsessive maniac.

What is happening now?

[Sam I Am]

What is happening now?

You haven't been paying attention to the news.

He is alienating many of his users by telling them what they can and cannot have on their Apple products. He is alienating his developers telling them what they can and cannot do AND they spend tons of money making an app and Apple rejects it because it competes with their own app. They refuse to allow Flash on their platform, not because of the reason they give, but because it allows developers to create apps for their platform that they have no way to "reject". They are committing anti-trust against Amazon.com (the government is investigating them now for it (http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/biztech/05/27/cnet.itunes.apple/)) They are forcing everyone to pay more for eBooks (http://www.tuaw.com/2010/02/05/more-ebook-trouble-for-amazon/) to fatten their own pockets. (they told book makers to force Amazon sell the books at a higher cost or that Apple wouldn't sell their books) They are suing HTC (cause Google would crush them) to stop the Android, but it's backfiring as they are now being sued by several of the mobile phone maker community.

[BrAinPaiNt]

http://www.skinstep.com/product_images/obsession-eau-toilette-spray-01758484005.jpg

[SultanOfSix]

Actually, the board of directors force him out because of what he was doing to the company. He is known for "creating products that people love, but then alienating everyone and everything." When you do that, people don't buy your stuff.

So, they fired him and it resulted in Apple, the creator of the PC, pretty much losing out on the growing PC market during the mid 80s to mid 90s?

Internal disagreements and upheavals go on all of the time. Bill Gates was ranted and raved against for all of his so called "machinations" too.

The point is Steve Jobs successes seem to be a lot more than his failures.

[vta]

http://www.skinstep.com/product_images/obsession-eau-toilette-spray-01758484005.jpg

:muttley:

[Sam I Am]

So, they fired him and it resulted in Apple, the creator of the PC, pretty much losing out on the growing PC market during the mid 80s to mid 90s?

Internal disagreements and upheavals go on all of the time. Bill Gates was ranted and raved against for all of his so called "machinations" too.

The point is Steve Jobs successes seem to be a lot more than his failures.

Since this hasn't played out completely yet, I won't account for the "current" Apple status. So, he is 1-2 thus far. He failed with Apple the first time, he failed with NeXT, and he succeeded with Pixar.

So far he has succeeded with Apple in the second go around, but he is showing signs of trying to kill it like he did the first time with Apple and NeXT.

[Everlastingxxx]

Since this hasn't played out completely yet, I won't account for the "current" Apple status. So, he is 1-2 thus far. He failed with Apple the first time, he failed with NeXT, and he succeeded with Pixar.

So far he has succeeded with Apple in the second go around, but he is showing signs of trying to kill it like he did the first time with Apple and NeXT.

He has succeeded. Just by the ipod alone. It took the world by storm. It completely blind sided Gates and Microsoft. Apple has been the pioneer and continues to raise the bar. The rest of the world follows and copy-cats.

[arglebargle]

Apple's big strength is their user interface design, set up to be simple and ease to use. They do have some innovation there. Sadly, as a phone, the iPhone is not so good. But it was innovative. However, their desire to keep everything under their control (as in iTunes, iPhone, no-Flash, etc) pretty much kills my interest in their platforms.

On the other hand, I have a couple of friends who worked at Apple while Jobs was in charge, and they pretty much spit when his name is mentioned. He is apparantly a real jerk to work for.