Henson on the ticket Monday [Archive] - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Doomsday101

02-21-2005, 08:23 AM

Is he going to anoint himself as starting QB, if not what can he say of interest?

Let’s see, “I’m so good that secretly BP and Jerry can’t talk about my progress in public, got to keep those cowboys fans off balance!” or “I’m so bad that BP and Jerry can’t talk about my progress in public or my trade value will drop!”

Just adding more garbage to the already large trash pile.

I hope Henson does step up and anoint himself, that is what I would expect out of a leader. Don't ask Parcells what your role is go out and take it, show it everytime you take the field be it mini camp or training camp. Leaders don't ask to lead they just do it.

blindzebra

02-21-2005, 09:34 AM

I hope Henson does step up and anoint himself, that is what I would expect out of a leader. Don't ask Parcells what your role is go out and take it, show it everytime you take the field be it mini camp or training camp. Leaders don't ask to lead they just do it.

Worked real well for Carter. Wasn't his I'm the leader/starter speech all of 3 days before he got cut? :D

Doomsday101

02-21-2005, 09:46 AM

Worked real well for Carter. Wasn't his I'm the leader/starter speech all of 3 days before he got cut? :D

Your right but why? Evidently Carter either has a drug problem or a bi-polar problem or both, either way your not going to lead others when you can't control your own life. I think a lot has to do with how a player conducts himself add to that a bit of a swagger, if you have doubts about your own ability to lead others, the others will see right through it.

Chocolate Lab

02-21-2005, 09:48 AM

Can anyone recap? I just caught the very end where he said he wanted to play ASAP and was happy he wasn't going to Europe. But that's it. I have trouble with the new Ticket popup player... I used to click on that "alternate streaming link", but they've gotten rid of that... :(

Zaxor

02-21-2005, 09:48 AM

Okay the recap

this of course is Zaxor's words of what was said and not actual quotes..

Said as far as competition "Bring it on"

Said he feels he is ready

Said Bill has been great to him

Has no clue what the Cowboys plan to do as far as the QB position

Said that he and some guys get together and workout but was told to take it easy this month

Zaxor

RCowboyFan

02-21-2005, 09:51 AM

Okay the recap

this of course is Zaxor's words of what was said and not actual quotes..

Zaxor

You are watching too man athletes talk buddy? REfering to yourself in third person
:p:

Thanks for the recap. I definetly expected Henson to say that about competition. He was there before with Brady, nothing new to him.

Zaxor

02-21-2005, 09:52 AM

You are watching too man athletes talk buddy? REfering to yourself in third person
:p:

Thanks for the recap. I definetly expected Henson to say that about competition. He was there before with Brady, nothing new to him.
LOL

I thought some would get a kixk out of that I know Zaxor did ;)

blindzebra

02-21-2005, 09:53 AM

Your right but why? Evidently Carter either has a drug problem or a bi-polar problem or both, either way your not going to lead others when you can't control your own life. I think a lot has to do with how a player conducts himself add to that a bit of a swagger, if you have doubts about your own ability to lead others, the others will see right through it.

Real leaders LEAD, they don't say, "I'm the leader."

Henson's best course of action is to say he's working hard and doing what is asked of him, and is READY to play whenever that time comes.

Saying I'm the starter will only piss Parcells off. I quarantee Quincy's little interview was the final nail in his coffin.

dbair1967

02-21-2005, 09:58 AM

Doomsday101

02-21-2005, 09:59 AM

Real leaders LEAD, they don't say, "I'm the leader."

Henson's best course of action is to say he's working hard and doing what is asked of him, and is READY to play whenever that time comes.

Saying I'm the starter will only piss Parcells off. I quarantee Quincy's little interview was the final nail in his coffin.

I don't think Parcells wants a weak minded player. Phil Simms sure made it known he was going to be the starting QB even after being benched the year before under Parcells and Phil never back down from a Parcells tirade. I'm not saying Henson needs to walk around talking about being the leader of the team but yes he should take the burden on to his own shoulders and do what he needs to do to convince his teammates that yes he is the leader on this team. I think Parcells is waiting for this to happen, just as it was in Parcells 1st year in Dallas he got upset and called off practice because neither Carter nor Hutch was taking control of the practice session.

Zaxor

02-21-2005, 10:00 AM

thanks for the recap Zax

David You of course are more than welcome my old friend

Zaxor

blindzebra

02-21-2005, 10:49 AM

I don't think Parcells wants a weak minded player. Phil Simms sure made it known he was going to be the starting QB even after being benched the year before under Parcells and Phil never back down from a Parcells tirade. I'm not saying Henson needs to walk around talking about being the leader of the team but yes he should take the burden on to his own shoulders and do what he needs to do to convince his teammates that yes he is the leader on this team. I think Parcells is waiting for this to happen, just as it was in Parcells 1st year in Dallas he got upset and called off practice because neither Carter nor Hutch was taking control of the practice session.

Then why say, "I hope he annoints himself the starter?"

Is that not walking around saying I'm the leader?

Key and Witten have both said that Henson takes charge of the huddle. He's calm and in control.

Leaders lead by example. They lead by doing it in meetings and on the field.

That's where he needs to show Parcells and his teammates. NOTHING he says to the media, about being the leader, is going to make him a leader in Parcells or the team's eyes. ;)

Doomsday101

02-21-2005, 10:55 AM

Then why say, "I hope he annoints himself the starter?"

Is that not walking around saying I'm the leader?

Key and Witten have both said that Henson takes charge of the huddle. He's calm and in control.

Leaders lead by example. They lead by doing it in meetings and on the field.

That's where he needs to show Parcells and his teammates. NOTHING he says to the media, about being the leader, is going to make him a leader in Parcells or the team's eyes. ;)

Granted but you don't shy away from it either. Sorry but Carter was not cut by what he said Carter was cut by what he was doing. I have yet to see a quality QB that did not have some swagger about him. As a QB your not just one of the guys you are the one they look to. I clearly do not want to see a meek personality at that position and I don't think Henson will be.

Charles

02-21-2005, 10:55 AM

Said that he and some guys get together and workout but was told to take it easy this month
Take it easy..............why???? Could Henson be involved in a possible trade scenario ;)

Zaxor

02-21-2005, 10:58 AM

[/b]
Take it easy..............why???? Could Henson be involved in a possible trade scenario ;)
LOL I guess I should have added that he said because they get started back on the offseason work

Zaxor

blindzebra

02-21-2005, 10:59 AM

[/b]
Take it easy..............why???? Could Henson be involved in a possible trade scenario ;)

You wish.

Could it be that he will be taking most of the snaps in mini-camps and training camp because he's gonna start, and they don't want his arm to fall off? ;)

Juke99

02-21-2005, 10:59 AM

LOL I guess I should have added that he said because they get started back on the offseason work

Zaxor

Well done, Mr Zax....thanks mucho...

Btw, did you get any feel for how Henson "sounded"?

Zaxor

02-21-2005, 11:04 AM

Well done, Mr Zax....thanks mucho...

Btw, did you get any feel for how Henson "sounded"?
You are quite welcome

From me he sounded pumped and ready...

Ya got to love the youthful enthusiasm

When asked how Bill is because he is brutal on QB's..Henson said they get along well and that he can be hard but they both want the same thing I think he really buys into what Bill is doing

Zaxor

CowboyManDan

02-21-2005, 11:08 AM

I caught it too. Henson sounded pretty calm and relaxed. Said they're not doing a real lot right now, because training starts next month or something. Said the offseason break is/was good for him, and namely his body, since it was his first nfl season. Mentioned he lives in Dallas full time.

Said he learned a little from Brady (Brady was 3 years ahead of him) in college and Testaverde here on how to prepare and carry oneself properly.

Said he feels he is ready, but when he was asked if any talk with Parcells or Jerry mentioned his role, he said there hasn't been any talk like that. But that he expects them to bring in another QB, obviously.

I'll add more if I remember more he said.

Oh, he said that he naturally feels more comfortable now that he has been here a year. Comfortable with all the faces, the complex, etc. And something like that he expects things in term of practice to come a little easier since it will be his second time around.

D41lasCowboys31

02-21-2005, 11:25 AM

[/b]
Take it easy..............why???? Could Henson be involved in a possible trade scenario ;)

Why in the h*ll would BP take Heath Miller with the 11th pick in the draft, Witten is one of the best TEs in the league and will be better than Miller.

Charles

02-21-2005, 12:29 PM

Why in the h*ll would BP take Heath Miller with the 11th pick in the draft, Witten is one of the best TEs in the league and will be better than Miller.
If Miller is the best collegiate prospect when the Cowboys pick I'd hope they select him. If there ever was a "draft for need" definition it would be DallasCowboys draft selections 1995 thru. 2002.

The NewEngland Patriots front office under Scott Pioli have made the following 1st rd. picks since 2001 when the won 1st won the SuperBowl

2001 - DT
2002 - TE
2003 - DT
2004 - DT and TE in 1st Rd.

They have always selected the best player on the board even though most draft gurus would assume the Patriots wouldn't draft players at position of strenght.

Doomsday101

02-21-2005, 12:36 PM

If Miller is the best collegiate prospect when the Cowboys pick I'd hope they select him. If there ever was a "draft for need" definition it would be DallasCowboys draft selections 1995 thru. 2002.

The NewEngland Patriots front office under Scott Pioli have made the following 1st rd. picks since 2001 when the won 1st won the SuperBowl

2001 - DT
2002 - TE
2003 - DT
2004 - DT and TE in 1st Rd.

They have always selected the best player on the board even though most draft gurus would assume the Patriots wouldn't draft players at position of strenght.

True but you need 3 or 4 good DT on the team Dallas currently has 2 very good TE.

Rack Bauer

02-21-2005, 12:40 PM

We aren't drafting Miller. Period. We had a bigger need for a TE when Witten was available in the 2nd round and we didn't draft him then. We certainly won't draft a TE in the second if we have an even LESSER need for that position now.

Not gonna happen.

Juke99

02-21-2005, 12:53 PM

You are quite welcome

From me he sounded pumped and ready...

Ya got to love the youthful enthusiasm

When asked how Bill is because he is brutal on QB's..Henson said they get along well and that he can be hard but they both want the same thing I think he really buys into what Bill is doing

Zaxor

Best news I've heard in a while...

Everything the guy (Henson) says is "correct"...he's always handled the media well...

Cbz40

02-21-2005, 12:53 PM

Thanks very much Zax

Charles

02-21-2005, 01:00 PM

True but you need 3 or 4 good DT on the team
Dallas currently has 2 very good TE.
I would also suggest that you need 2 good TEs on a Bill Parcells type offense.

The Cowboys have one very good TE (Witten) and the rest are solid.

The presence of Vrabel and Daniel Graham didn't stop the Patriots from selecting the best player on the board Ben Watson TE (during the draft).

If a RB was the best player at the 11th pick I'd hope the Cowboys select him. I have witnessed the drafting for need see.....1995 thru. 2002. I hope the Cowboys select the best player left even I'd rather have 2 very good TEs than have an above average DE just because it was a position of need.

blindzebra

02-21-2005, 01:15 PM

I would also suggest that you need 2 good TEs on a Bill Parcells type offense.

The Cowboys have one very good TE (Witten) and the rest are solid.

The presence of Vrabel and Daniel Graham didn't stop the Patriots from selecting the best player on the board Ben Watson TE (during the draft).

If a RB was the best player at the 11th pick I'd hope the Cowboys select him. I have witnessed the drafting for need see.....1995 thru. 2002. I hope the Cowboys select the best player left even I'd rather have 2 very good TEs than have an above average DE just because it was a position of need.

Oh, please.

Graham is not close to Witten, and Vrabel is a freakin LB.

Witten and Campbell are light years better than what NE had at TE.

You don't reach for need. Reach as in this player is the 35th best player and you take him at #11 because you need a DT.

If you are picking at #11 in the top 5 guys on Dallas' board are QB, RB, TE, LB, DE it would be BEYOND STUPID to draft the first 3. You can't stockpile talent in the salary cap age.

You draft for need with VALUE. That means you trade down a couple of spots or bite the bullet and draft a guy a couple of spots early, but you don't draft a position of strength just to take the highest rated player on your board.

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 01:23 PM

I would also suggest that you need 2 good TEs on a Bill Parcells type offense.

The Cowboys have one very good TE (Witten) and the rest are solid.

The presence of Vrabel and Daniel Graham didn't stop the Patriots from selecting the best player on the board Ben Watson TE (during the draft).

If a RB was the best player at the 11th pick I'd hope the Cowboys select him. I have witnessed the drafting for need see.....1995 thru. 2002. I hope the Cowboys select the best player left even I'd rather have 2 very good TEs than have an above average DE just because it was a position of need.

Are you refering to the New England Patriots who have won three of the last four Super Bowls? The team who have veteran players at almost every position? The New England Patriots of 2004? Sure, they can afford to do this. When there 6-10, lets see how many 1st round picks they make that sit for a whole year.

Charles

02-21-2005, 01:48 PM

Are you refering to the New England Patriots who have won three of the last four Super Bowls? The team who have veteran players at almost every position? The New England Patriots of 2004? Sure, they can afford to do this. When there 6-10, lets see how many 1st round picks they make that sit for a whole year.
What makes you think Miller would sit for a whole year?

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 02:14 PM

[/b]
What makes you think Miller would sit for a whole year?

I suppose, the same thing that makes you think we can afford to think like New England does in the upcoming draft.

Doomsday101

02-21-2005, 02:15 PM

I would also suggest that you need 2 good TEs on a Bill Parcells type offense.

The Cowboys have one very good TE (Witten) and the rest are solid.

The presence of Vrabel and Daniel Graham didn't stop the Patriots from selecting the best player on the board Ben Watson TE (during the draft).

If a RB was the best player at the 11th pick I'd hope the Cowboys select him. I have witnessed the drafting for need see.....1995 thru. 2002. I hope the Cowboys select the best player left even I'd rather have 2 very good TEs than have an above average DE just because it was a position of need.

Dallas has 2 good ones in Witten and Campbell using a 1st rd pick on yet another TE would be nothing but a waste for a team that has other needs and TE is not one of them. BPA may sound good but all teams look to address needs as well on draft day. Which brings me to drafting BPA that addresses a need and if that is not there when your turn comes up that is when you see teams trying to trade out of that pick.

Charles

02-21-2005, 02:22 PM

I suppose, the same thing that makes you think we can afford to think like New England does in the upcoming draft.
Why can't we afford think like NewEngland does in the upcoming draft? (or like they did in any draft since 1993)

Champsheart

02-21-2005, 02:30 PM

When asked how Bill is because he is brutal on QB's..Henson said they get along well and that he can be hard but they both want the same thing I think he really buys into what Bill is doing

Zaxor

Thanks Zaxor!

That is exactly what I wanted to hear, and Great News!

I know many people feel different, but I think Parcells is doing everything he can to develop Henson. He is just doing it the way he thinks is best. Good to hear Henson and Parcells seem to be on the same page.
It is in everybodys best interest.

Charles

02-21-2005, 02:33 PM

Dallas has 2 good ones in Witten and Campbell using a 1st rd pick on yet another TE would be nothing but a waste for a team that has other needs and TE is not one of them. BPA may sound good but all teams look to address needs as well on draft day. Which brings me to drafting BPA that addresses a need and if that is not there when your turn comes up that is when you see teams trying to trade out of that pick.
The good TE on the roster is Witten. The rest are solid to average IMO.

If Miller is the best collegiate player on the board when the Cowboys pick 11th I'd hope the presence of an average one dimensional TEs would stop the possibility of drafting a possible blue-chip prospect.

Doomsday101

02-21-2005, 02:36 PM

The good TE on the roster is Witten. The rest are solid to average IMO.

If Miller is the best collegiate player on the board when the Cowboys pick 11th I'd hope the presence of an average one dimensional TEs would stop the possibility of drafting a possible blue-chip prospect.

If Miller is the only value on the board at that time then I hope we look to move out of that spot. This team has needs and again while BPA sounds nice the fact is this is not an area of need on a club that has many other needs. You also have to be wise at where are you spending your money, paying 3 TE's a good pay check while other position are in dire need is not money well spent.

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 02:40 PM

Why can't we afford think like NewEngland does in the upcoming draft? (or like they did in any draft since 1993)

Because the value there is not to take a guy in the first round who likely will not start for a good three seasons. The value is to trade out and pick up players or future draft picks, something New England would probably do if it were them. I find it interesting that you suggest New England would take this player if they were in our situation. I, for one, highly doubt they would. I really doubt you would know for sure but I guess it really doesn't matter. Miller will not be there, even if you call him Smith, he will not be there. If he is, we will see who is correct. It's not something that is going to keep me up nights.

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 02:48 PM

The good TE on the roster is Witten. The rest are solid to average IMO.

If Miller is the best collegiate player on the board when the Cowboys pick 11th I'd hope the presence of an average one dimensional TEs would stop the possibility of drafting a possible blue-chip prospect.

I sometime wonder if you even watched our offense while Campbell was healthy. The first rule for TEs in a Parcells offense is that you must be able to block. Witten didn't start his rookie year because he couldn't do this effectively enough. He didn't start at the beginning of this year because Campbell blocked better. BTW, Campbell is not the 11th best player available in this draft. Your logic here is damaged. Campbell is a 1st round talent but not 11th best.

If your in favor of signing Bledsoe, you had better hope we get as many of those blocking TEs as we can and then spend #11 on a dominating pass blocker. If not, we are doomed.

Charles

02-21-2005, 03:06 PM

If Miller is the only value on the board at that time then I hope we look to move out of that spot. This team has needs and again while BPA sounds nice the fact is this is not an area of need on a club that has many other needs. You also have to be wise at where are you spending your money, paying 3 TE's a good pay check while other position are in dire need is not money well spent.
We can agree to disagree on drafting strategies. It isn't a perfect science. Either strategy could yield a blue-chip or bust.

Money isn't an issue when it comes to the TE position. Witten contract is carrying a 3rd RD. value. I doubt his earned incentives could stop the Cowboys from pursuing a 1st RD. TE. Campbell and Robinson are a dime a dozen.

Doomsday101

02-21-2005, 03:12 PM

We can agree to disagree on drafting strategies. It isn't a perfect science. Either strategy could yield a blue-chip or bust.

Money isn't an issue when it comes to the TE position. Witten contract is carrying a 3rd RD. value. I doubt his earned incentives could stop the Cowboys from pursuing a 1st RD. TE. Campbell and Robinson are a dime a dozen.

All I'm saying is BPA is not going to help this or any other team, drafting the BPA that fits a need is what team do. If you look at the grading system in the draft and say Miller is 8.6 grade but the next guy is 8.5 and a DT well we need the DT a lot more than a TE. I'm not suggesting that you draft for need totally but yes need plays a part, you don't see teams draft a QB in round 1 last year looking to draft another QB with the 1st pick just because he is the BPA.

Charles

02-21-2005, 03:20 PM

Because the value there is not to take a guy in the first round who likely will not start for a good three seasons. The value is to trade out and pick up players or future draft picks, something New England would probably do if it were them. I find it interesting that you suggest New England would take this player if they were in our situation. I, for one, highly doubt they would. I really doubt you would know for sure but I guess it really doesn't matter. Miller will not be there, even if you call him Smith, he will not be there. If he is, we will see who is correct. It's not something that is going to keep me up nights.
Witten didn't start his rookie year but he made a bigger impact than Campbell.

It's laughable to think a team shouldn't draft a player because he likely won't start. Vince Wolfork isn't starting, Ben Watson isn't starting. The Eagles had 2 Pro Bowl CBs when they drafted the 3 CBs early in the draft.

Miller might not be there, he might be. I agree, I don't know for sure. If he's there we'll see who guessed right. :D

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 03:39 PM

Witten didn't start his rookie year but he made a bigger impact than Campbell.

It's laughable to think a team shouldn't draft a player because he likely won't start. Vince Wolfork isn't starting, Ben Watson isn't starting. The Eagles had 2 Pro Bowl CBs when they drafted the 3 CBs early in the draft.

Miller might not be there, he might be. I agree, I don't know for sure. If he's there we'll see who guessed right. :D

Man, at least do your homework. To say that Witten had a bigger impact is suposition at best. Campbell's impact is difficult to gage because we didn't have a good running back in 2003 but still, he was clearly one of the best players we had on the offensive side of the ball. These are not my words but Parcells'. He also said, when asked what Campbells injury ment to the club, "You can't replace a Dan Campbell." When Shocky was drafted by NY, he caught 78 balls his rookie year. The next year, Campbell signed with us. this changed Shockey's role. He had to do more pass/run blocking. The next year he was injured, missing 7 games as a result of the more physical role. He caught 48 balls. Last year 61. When asked why the decline, Shockey stated that the departure of Campbell was the single biggest factor. His words. I think you seriouisly under estimate the worth of Dan Campbell.

As for the starting thing, you miss my point entirely. We are in pretty good shape at TE. We can not afford the luxury of drafting a TE who won't have an immediate impact at 11. If Miller is there at 11, we won't draft him. That is my opinoin. If New England were at 11 instead of us, do you think that they would draft him?

At some point, commen scense has to come into play.

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 04:00 PM

It's laughable to think a team shouldn't draft a player because he likely won't start. Vince Wolfork isn't starting, Ben Watson isn't starting. The Eagles had 2 Pro Bowl CBs when they drafted the 3 CBs early in the draft.

Miller might not be there, he might be. I agree, I don't know for sure. If he's there we'll see who guessed right. :D

Really, the thing I find humoris is the fact that you look at NE and you somehow equate there situation to ours. News falsh, they have won 3 or of 4. They are talented at every position. They are in the very enviable position of drafting for the future.

We are not. We have not won the SuperBowl in 10 years. We are not even a playoff team. We need to make our drafts count, if for no other reason then the fact that we have pretty much screwed the draft up for 10 years.

The 11th pick in the draft, on a team like ours, should be a guy who makes a difference. NE, picked Watson, with the 32nd pick, not 11th. They took Wilfork (21st pick, not 11th) as the eventual replacement for Traylor, who is an FA this year. Wilfork will likely start this year. The point can be made that Wilfork was a draft for need.

Philly took Sheppard, Lewis and Brown, in 2002, because they new they couldn't hope to keep Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent after 2003.

Good foresight? Absolutly but very definatly a case of drafting for need. Really no question here.

JBell523

02-21-2005, 04:08 PM

Enough discussion already, we'd be freakin idiots if we took Heath Miller at #11

Jersey

02-21-2005, 04:14 PM

How did this go from talking about our starting QB to us retardedly taking an avereage TE in the upcoming draft? Someone must have a poster of the guy with his shirt off and can't get get him out of his mind.

Charles

02-21-2005, 04:16 PM

Man, at least do your homework. To say that Witten had a bigger impact is suposition at best. Campbell's impact is difficult to gage because we didn't have a good running back in 2003 but still, he was clearly one of the best players we had on the offensive side of the ball. These are not my words but Parcells'. He also said, when asked what Campbells injury ment to the club, "You can't replace a Dan Campbell." When Shocky was drafted by NY, he caught 78 balls his rookie year. The next year, Campbell signed with us. this changed Shockey's role. He had to do more pass/run blocking. The next year he was injured, missing 7 games as a result of the more physical role. He caught 48 balls. Last year 61. When asked why the decline, Shockey stated that the departure of Campbell was the single biggest factor. His words. I think you seriouisly under estimate the worth of Dan Campbell.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand Campbell worth. He is like many BIll Parcells type players....average players that excel because Parcells puts them in a great situations to succeed. Campbell is an above average blocking TE, but I have watched other players who have done a similar duty of past Parcells teams and quite frankly I doubt Dan Campbells name will come when we discuss blocking TEs on Parcell teams. Even in his best year Campbell won't make the ProBowl. He's a very good leader but he's an average football player. Those type of players are a dime dozen, Campbell will get more hype because he can play for Parcells.

Witten presence on the passing offense 2003 and 2004 offense with QBs (we all know you love Vinny and Quincy). Witten is a match-up nightmare. He lines up at every spot were a offensive player can be considered a receiver and blocker as opposed to Campbell who is one dimensional.

As for the starting thing, you miss my point entirely. We are in pretty good shape at TE. We can not afford the luxury of drafting a TE who won't have an immediate impact at 11.
Well I can't argue this point because noone knows who will be an impact. Whose to say the DT or DE everyone wants the Cowboys to draft will be an impact?

If Miller is there at 11, we won't draft him. That is my opinoin.
We are entitled ;)

If New England were at 11 instead of us, do you think that they would draft him?
No because they have Graham, Watson (2 very good young players) and average to solid veteran depth at TE.

But they has Graham in 2003, but that didn't stop the Patriots from drafting Ben Watson. The presence of Seymour didn't stop the patriots from drafting Ty Warren. The presence of Seymour, Warren and Keith Traylor didn't stop Patriots from drafting Vince Wolfork.

At some point, commen scense has to come into play.
I agree. Sadly it's not so common.

jimmy40

02-21-2005, 04:27 PM

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand Campbell worth. He is like many BIll Parcells type players....average players that excel because Parcells puts them in a great situations to succeed. Campbell is an above average blocking TE, but I have watched other players who have done a similar duty of past Parcells teams and quite frankly I doubt Dan Campbells name will come when we discuss blocking TEs on Parcell teams. Even in his best year Campbell won't make the ProBowl. He's a very good leader but he's an average football player. Those type of players are a dime dozen, Campbell will get more hype because he can play for Parcells.

Witten presence on the passing offense 2003 and 2004 offense with QBs (we all know you love Vinny and Quincy). Witten is a match-up nightmare. He lines up at every spot were a offensive player can be considered a receiver and blocker as opposed to Campbell who is one dimensional.

Well I can't argue this point because noone knows who will be an impact. Whose to say the DT or DE everyone wants the Cowboys to draft will be an impact?

We are entitled ;)

No because they have Graham, Watson (2 very good young players) and average to solid veteran depth at TE.

But they has Graham in 2003, but that didn't stop the Patriots from drafting Ben Watson. The presence of Seymour didn't stop the patriots from drafting Ty Warren. The presence of Seymour, Warren and Keith Traylor didn't stop Patriots from drafting Vince Wolfork.

I agree. Sadly it's not so common.The way the refs call illegal use of hands now a bottom of the first round tight end two years ago is a top 10 prospect this year. I don't want to draft a tight end that high this year but the value of a pass catching tight end shouldn't be under estimated.

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 04:31 PM

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand Campbell worth. He is like many BIll Parcells type players....average players that excel because Parcells puts them in a great situations to succeed. Campbell is an above average blocking TE, but I have watched other players who have done a similar duty of past Parcells teams and quite frankly I doubt Dan Campbells name will come when we discuss blocking TEs on Parcell teams. Even in his best year Campbell won't make the ProBowl. He's a very good leader but he's an average football player. Those type of players are a dime dozen, Campbell will get more hype because he can play for Parcells.

Witten presence on the passing offense 2003 and 2004 offense with QBs (we all know you love Vinny and Quincy). Witten is a match-up nightmare. He lines up at every spot were a offensive player can be considered a receiver and blocker as opposed to Campbell who is one dimensional.

Well I can't argue this point because noone knows who will be an impact. Whose to say the DT or DE everyone wants the Cowboys to draft will be an impact?

We are entitled ;)

No because they have Graham, Watson (2 very good young players) and average to solid veteran depth at TE.

But they has Graham in 2003, but that didn't stop the Patriots from drafting Ben Watson. The presence of Seymour didn't stop the patriots from drafting Ty Warren. The presence of Seymour, Warren and Keith Traylor didn't stop Patriots from drafting Vince Wolfork.

I agree. Sadly it's not so common.

Two pass catching TEs will never be the starters in a Parcells offense. This is what your suggesting. Question, will Miller start over Campbell or Witten in a year or two? If the answer is no, then how can you hope to justify taking him at 11? I agree, Campbell will never be a HOF player. Having said that, NE is made up of a bunch of guys just like Campbell. What's the moral here? You gotta have those kind of guys to win.

I agree, Witten is a match up nightmare but you gotta be able to block as well. This game is about balance, not just pass catching.

I don't understand what Warren has to do with anything. Warren is a DE. They needed a DE. Traylor is gone this year. Why wouldn't you draft a guy like Wilfork if you know Traylor was getting old and would be an expensive FA in 2005? This is that commen sense stuff we've been talking about.

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 04:36 PM

The way the refs call illegal use of hands now a bottom of the first round tight end two years ago is a top 10 prospect this year. I don't want to draft a tight end that high this year but the value of a pass catching tight end shouldn't be under estimated.

Let me first say that you will not find a bigger fan of pass catching TEs then me, ever. I absolutly believe in them. Having said that, I think the point your making pertains more to WRs then TEs. I have absolutly noticed the close play calling of DBs against WRs but not so much TEs. I think the trend is still to be more physical with TEs then WRs. I could be way off base but I just haven't notice that play calling being extended near as much to TEs.

Charles

02-21-2005, 04:47 PM

Really, the thing I find humoris is the fact that you look at NE and you somehow equate there situation to ours.
Those who laugh the loudest usually missed the joke. I am suggesting the Cowboys should use the NewEngland Patriots draft philosophy.

News falsh, they have won 3 or of 4. They are talented at every position. They are in the very enviable position of drafting for the future.
No one needs a news falsh to know that the cowboys aren't talented in every positions, therefore drafting the best player available is important.

We are not. We have not won the SuperBowl in 10 years. We are not even a playoff team. We need to make our drafts count, if for no other reason then the fact that we have pretty much screwed the draft up for 10 years.
I am still trying to figure out who stated that the Cowboys are in the same situation as the Patriots.

If we need to make our draft picks count shouldn't we be using the philosophy of the successful teams.

Why have the Cowboys screwed up the draft for 10 years? Because they were drafting players for need. They weren't selecting the best player available.

jimmy40

02-21-2005, 05:13 PM

Let me first say that you will not find a bigger fan of pass catching TEs then me, ever. I absolutly believe in them. Having said that, I think the point your making pertains more to WRs then TEs. I have absolutly noticed the close play calling of DBs against WRs but not so much TEs. I think the trend is still to be more physical with TEs then WRs. I could be way off base but I just haven't notice that play calling being extended near as much to TEs. There's a reason nobody was within five yards of Witten on damn near every pass he caught this year and it's not because he's the best tight end ever. Nobody can cover tight ends anymore because linebackers can't hold on and safeties aren't big enough. But you didn't notice this? Tight ends will always be played more physical because conerbacks aren't covering them. This is not a trend.

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 05:15 PM

Those who laugh the loudest usually missed the joke. I am suggesting the Cowboys should use the NewEngland Patriots draft philosophy.

No one needs a news falsh to know that the cowboys aren't talented in every positions, therefore drafting the best player available is important.

I am still trying to figure out who stated that the Cowboys are in the same situation as the Patriots.

If we need to make our draft picks count shouldn't we be using the philosophy of the successful teams.

Why have the Cowboys screwed up the draft for 10 years? Because they were drafting players for need. They weren't selecting the best player available.

We do use that philosophy. It's Bill Parcells model. You can almost hear that laughter fadding away huh?

Drafting on BPA is a nice way to look at things but it's not very realistic. You yourself said that NE would not draft this guy if he was on the board at there pick. Are you in favor of NE drafting Smith if he's on the board at QB? Would you be in favor of us drafting Davis at Safety at 11, if he's the best player there? If Miller is on the board at 11, there are several teams that need a TE in this draft. If he's worth all you believe him to be, then it should not be a problem to find a trade partner or simply take a better player. That would be the best move and I suspect it would be the move that NE would make in a simular situation.

In a round about way, you did. You have said, we should draft like NE does right now. This would imply that situations are simular, IE, same draft approach exactly. If, however, you are saying that we are not in the same situations, then how can using the exact same draft approach work for us? When you really think about it, it all comes down to Quantum Mechanics. By definition, we can not afford to draft the same way a team like NE would.

Yes, to a certain extent, we should be using simular draft stratigies but, we should look at those stratigies at simular points in developmental stages. To do this, we need to go back to a time when Parcells was coaching NE. In those days, they were drafting immediate starters. Guys like Terry Glenn, Tye Law, Willie McGinst, Drew Bledsoe. They weren't drafting 3rd TEs with 1st round picks.

I agree that for 10 odd years, we have been reaching for players rather then looking at best available but there is a balance as well. Too much of anything isn't a good thing. There needs to be a balance in this approach and there also has to be flexability. No always and no never. Remember that one, my grandma taught me that one. LOL

ABQCOWBOY

02-21-2005, 05:23 PM

There's a reason nobody was within five yards of Witten on damn near every pass he caught this year and it's not because he's the best tight end ever. Nobody can cover tight ends anymore because linebackers can't hold on and safeties aren't big enough. But you didn't notice this? Tight ends will always be played more physical because conerbacks aren't covering them. This is not a trend.

I think it's an over exaduration (sp?) to say that nobody was within 5 yards of Witten this year. I also think your selling the job Witten did this year a bit short but hey, I will not contest as I said earlier, I did not notice much of what you contend. I think I've said that I believe in the TE so basically, I think I agree with you. I also think I said that the rule is being called much closer on the WRs so again, regardless of the reasoning, I think I still agree with you. Basically, I believe I agree with you on the more physical play of TEs in the NFL. Can you believe? We're in agree ment with the whole none trend thing.

I basically agree with you, for the most part. I just don't think that the value of a TE, where the closer play calling is concerned, will be more advantages then a big physical WR pressence.

Charles

02-21-2005, 05:46 PM

Two pass catching TEs will never be the starters in a Parcells offense. This is what your suggesting. Question, will Miller start over Campbell or Witten in a year or two? If the answer is no, then how can you hope to justify taking him at 11? I agree, Campbell will never be a HOF player. Having said that, NE is made up of a bunch of guys just like Campbell. What's the moral here? You gotta have those kind of guys to win.
Who really cares about who starting?

Since when did starting have to do with a players impact. Miller is an all around TE. What makes you think he's a pass catching TE. It appears you don't even know the player your discussing. Witten is also an all round TE.

I agree, Witten is a match up nightmare but you gotta be able to block as well. This game is about balance, not just pass catching.
What makes you think Witten is not a blocker.....oops this is coming from the same guy who thinks Henson didn't play poorly because you rewatched the Thanksgiving game AGAIN

I don't understand what Warren has to do with anything. Warren is a DE. They needed a DE.
Actually Ty Warren was a DT and a DE at Texas A&M. He's a 300lb DT moved to DE because the Patriots play 3-4 . They didn't need a DE after the 2002 season. They had Anthony Plesant, Bobby Hamilton, Jarvis Green and Richard Seymour. Hamilton left via free agency and the emergence of Ty Warren and Tully Banta-Cain(sp) made Anthony Plesant expendable. Both had started in the SuperBowl in 2001. They added 3 draft picks in Ty Warren, Jarvis Green and Cain to a point of strenght that included a ProBowl player in Seymour.

If Warren was drafted as a DT then why keep Ted Washington during the 2003 season. Isn't Warren supposed to start ?;) .

If Vince Wolfork is expected to start then why keep or sign Keith Traylor

I thought this stuff was supposed to be common sense.

Traylor is gone this year. Why wouldn't you draft a guy like Wilfork if you know Traylor was getting old and would be an expensive FA in 2005? This is that commen sense stuff we've been talking about.

If so then why can't the Cowboys draft Miller if he's the best player available at the 11th pick with the thought that Dan Campbell isn't getting any younger. He's coming off a season ending injury.

I thought this stuff was supposed to be common sense.