McQuistan/Berger - starting??

[DBOY3141]

Watched some of the Phins game last night and McQuistan and Berger were starting. Phins offense looked pretty good against the Jets D and only gave up 2 sacks.

Every scheme is different, but I think Houck may not be the right coach for our style of play in regards to O-Line play.

[HoosierCowboy]

or maybe Mc and Berger are not as good as the young guys we kept

[Doomsday101]

Hell I was shocked to see Carpenter playing for Miami and has started 2 of the 1st 3 games for them this season.

[Doctor32]

By the 4th quarter, the Dolphins has Procter, Berger, McQuistan, Polite, and Fasano on the field. Carpenter rotated in multiple packages and base defense on the other side of the ball.

[dest]

Carp got beat pretty good for a TD in the endzone.

[Doomsday101]

You would think BP and Sparano would know better than to take these guys. Jerry gets roasted for Barron and yet BP and Sparano have 3 rejects of Dallas and one guy in carpenter who was let go by Dallas and cut by the Rams. If getting Barron makes Jerry a bad GM what does this move by Miami say about their management? :laugh2:

[hornitosmonster]

Yup, and it looks like Miami lost. Good old Parcells is stuck in New York Giants mode circa 1986.

[dmq]

I saw McQuistan getting blown up more than once last night.

[DBOY3141]

So the Dolphins have our 1st and 2nd round draft picks from 2006. What a crappy draft that was.

[Yakuza Rich]

Berger looked alright, McQ was awful. The Fins have a pretty good O-Line, but I would say that Berger is their 4th best O-Lineman and McQ is well below him. Long and Carey were the real stars last nigh. Incognito can run block as well as anybody, but gets beat too much on pass protection. I’d still take Gurode over Berger though and I’m not big on Gurode. Holland, Davis and Kosier are far better than McQ. I think we made out well there in that trade, particularly since we were cutting McQ anyway.

I think Fasano is pretty darn good. Not a world beater, but a nice TE to have on your team. Made an awesome block last night as well.




YR

[Doomsday101]

Berger looked alright, McQ was awful. The Fins have a pretty good O-Line, but I would say that Berger is their 4th best O-Lineman and McQ is well below him. Long and Carey were the real stars last nigh. Incognito can run block as well as anybody, but gets beat too much on pass protection. I’d still take Gurode over Berger though and I’m not big on Gurode. Holland, Davis and Kosier are far better than McQ. I think we made out well there in that trade, particularly since we were cutting McQ anyway.

I think Fasano is pretty darn good. Not a world beater, but a nice TE to have on your team. Made an awesome block last night as well.




YR

What gets me is if BP and Sparano were being judge as critically as Jerry does people would be calling them out for getting McQ who has looked poor as has Carpenter. Jerry gets Barron and people say what is he doing on this team Jerry will not get rid of him because he will not admit he is wrong. So why is McQ still in Miami or Carpenter given their poor play? Is BP or Sparano afraid to admit they were wrong? :laugh2:

[JBell523]

the only one I miss is Polite.

[starchamber]

You would think BP and Sparano would know better than to take these guys. Jerry gets roasted for Barron and yet BP and Sparano have 3 rejects of Dallas and one guy in carpenter who was let go by Dallas and cut by the Rams. If getting Barron makes Jerry a bad GM what does this move by Miami say about their management? :laugh2:

If I am not mistaken,
Romo, Barber, Newman, Austin, Ware and Witten just to name a few were drafted under BP. This team is still thriving from the past decisions he made. I would take him as a GM over anyone name Jerry, let alone Jerry Jones. JJ is a good owner and promoter, and that is where the good ends in terms of football...:rolleyes:

[Doomsday101]

If I am not mistaken,
Romo, Barber, Newman, Austin, and Witten just to name a few were drafted under BP. This team is still thriving from the past decisions he made. I would take him as a GM over anyone name Jerry, let alone Jerry Jones. JJ is a good owner and promoter, and that is where the good ends in terms of football...:rolleyes:

I did not say that BP has not hit on good players he has he has also missed on some lousy players but since BP left, Dallas has also added other talent that BP had no say what so ever. BP has not been in Dallas since 06 season and look around at players who have came here and are a big part of the team. Has Jerry missed on guys sure he has so has BP and we have also hit on some guys. So roll your eyes all you want

[R0M0C0P]

If I am not mistaken,
Romo, Barber, Newman, Austin, Ware and Witten just to name a few were drafted under BP. This team is still thriving from the past decisions he made. I would take him as a GM over anyone name Jerry, let alone Jerry Jones. JJ is a good owner and promoter, and that is where the good ends in terms of football...:rolleyes:Romo was undrafted.

[starchamber]

I did not say that BP has not hit on good players he has he has also missed on some lousy players but since BP left, Dallas has also added other talent that BP had no say what so ever. BP has not been in Dallas since 06 season and look around at players who have came here and are a big part of the team. Has Jerry missed on guys sure he has so has BP and we have also hit on some guys. So roll your eyes all you want

What I am saying is I would take BP's picks over Jerry's 10 times out of TEN. Our offensive line would not be what it is if BP were here. Jerry does not know how to build a foootball team. Look at what he did after Jimmy left and before Bill came.. This team's success is due in large part to Bill being here. Period. That's all I am saying. Didn't mean to offend you. And I gurantee you if Bill were the GM, Wade would not be here nor would Jason be the OC. Bill has proven he can coach a team and effectively evaluate talent. Jerry does not know how to build a football team...

[wileedog]

Carp got beat pretty good for a TD in the endzone.

Eh, the coverage wasn't bad, the throw was perfect.

Certainly better than anything Brooking did in coverage yesterday.

[Doomsday101]

What I am saying is I would take BP's picks over Jerry's 10 times out of TEN. Our offensive line would not be what it is if BP were here. Jerry does not know how to build a foootball team. Look at what he did after Jimmy left and before Bill came.. This team's success is due in large part to Bill being here. Period. That's all I am saying. Didn't mean to offend you. And I gurantee you if Bill were the GM, Wade would not be here nor would Jason be the OC. Bill has proven he can coach a team and effectively evaluate talent. Jerry does not know how to build a football team...

Why most of the lineman we took under BP did not make it. BP has hit on some good players guess what Dallas has hit on some very good players without him. I respect BP what gets me is Jerry signes Barron and the peanut gallery gets upset yet BP grabs Carpenter, McQ and Beger and that is smart? :lmao:

[Doomsday101]

Eh, the coverage wasn't bad, the throw was perfect.

Certainly better than anything Brooking did in coverage yesterday.

Brooking also made plays that is the problem with Carpenter he does not make plays. All guys will get burned it comes with the territory but good players redeem themselves and actually make plays that help change the game. Brooking does that Carpenter has not.

[wileedog]

Brooking also made plays that is the problem with Carpenter he does not make plays. All guys will get burned it comes with the territory but good players redeem themselves and actually make plays that help change the game. Brooking does that Carpenter has not.

Brooking was awful in coverage yesterday, that was my only point. I'm certainly not implying Carpenter > Brooking.

Carpenter was a more than serviceable nickel LBer for us last year, and he didn't look as bad as mentioned on the TD last night. We are asking for trouble if one of the young kids doesn't grab that spot soon because I don't think Brooking is a 3 down LBer anymore.

[Patton]

Cory Procter played quite a bit too.

[starchamber]

Why most of the lineman we took under BP did not make it. BP has hit on some good players guess what Dallas has hit on some very good players without him. I respect BP what gets me is Jerry signes Barron and the peanut gallery gets upset yet BP grabs Carpenter, McQ and Beger and that is smart? :lmao:
BP acquired them to fill in gaps. And I would bet dollars to doughnuts Keith Brooking wishes Bobby Carpenter were here so he wouldn't have to play every down. Parcells brought in Kosier, Columbo on the O-line and Spears and Ware on the D-line. We have already seen what happens when Kosier and Columbo are out....It's not just Barron. Great Roy had a good game yesterday. But based on what you see from Dez, do you expect him to be on the team next year? I would trade Roy for more depth (or an improvement on the O line..) in a minute. We not only over paid for him, we gave up draft picks. Vinny Cerratto has made some decent picks while in Washington, but I wouldn't use those "FEW" examples to define his entire body of work. I really don't see how anyone could compare Jerry's ability to evaluate talent to BPs. BP is clearly superior. But you obviously do...Ok. :bow:

[casmith07]

Eh, the coverage wasn't bad, the throw was perfect.

Certainly better than anything Brooking did in coverage yesterday.

LOL @ Carpenter apologists.

[RS12]

Yep, Bills boys lost, and I saw McQuistan flagged at least once for holding.

[TD-33]

Carpenter looked absolutely horrible. He was getting blown out of the play almost every single time! Once he was man-handled all the way down the line by a tightend! He was pushed out over and over, I was almost embarrassed for the guy and I don't even like him. At least he was cheering and trying to get the crowd into the game though. :laugh2: Same ol' Barbie.
Good riddance.

[RS12]

Carpenter looked absolutely horrible. He was getting blown out of the play almost every single time! Once he was man-handled all the way down the line by a tightend! He was pushed out over and over, I was almost embarrassed for the guy and I don't even like him. At least he was cheering and trying to get the crowd into the game though. :laugh2: Same ol' Barbie.
Good riddance.

Yep, if there was a spot in the Pro Bowl for towel wavers, he'd make it every year.

[InmanRoshi]

You would think BP and Sparano would know better than to take these guys. Jerry gets roasted for Barron and yet BP and Sparano have 3 rejects of Dallas and one guy in carpenter who was let go by Dallas and cut by the Rams. If getting Barron makes Jerry a bad GM what does this move by Miami say about their management? :laugh2:

McQuistan looked like Anthony Munoz last night compared to Barron in Week 1.

[CCBoy]

Carp got beat pretty good for a TD in the endzone.

Actually, Carpenter had pretty tight coverage and the throw was a very good one. Moving, it is extremely hard to judge that tight of a window of opportunity to defense.

[chicago JK]

I have no problem with Sporano rolling the dice with a few Dallas rejects. Sporano was high on McQuistan while he was in dallas. The blessing Sporano and Parcells gave to McQ probably was one of the reason why he stayed around so long.

I didn't watch the game very closely last night. Although McQuistan looked like he played on Roller skates his past few years in Dallas and Proctor was always overmatched. Last night they actually looked like NFL caliber players who could play spot duty and not wreck a team.

I don't think you need to hit a homerun on every player you pick up. You churn the bottom of the roster throughout the year and will have misfires. If the Dolphins can find decent depth on the line for a year or two, then I certainly think that is a decent find.

[Yakuza Rich]

If I am not mistaken,
Romo, Barber, Newman, Austin, Ware and Witten just to name a few were drafted under BP. This team is still thriving from the past decisions he made. I would take him as a GM over anyone name Jerry, let alone Jerry Jones. JJ is a good owner and promoter, and that is where the good ends in terms of football...:rolleyes:

Austin wasn't drafted, neither was Romo.

BP wanted Spears at #11, Jerry wanted Ware. Had we drafted Spears, we don't get Ware.





YR

[CCBoy]

Austin wasn't drafted, neither was Romo.

BP wanted Spears at #11, Jerry wanted Ware. Had we drafted Spears, we don't get Ware.





YR

But he supposedly has a press clipping back when Jerry came in, and he didn't do as he and Tom Landry stated, make a home appearance at his house to inform him of the changes. Then it was in the press that Jerry stabbed Jimmy in the back, despite Jimmy trying to negotiate a deal with another team to be both headcoach AND GM the week prior to HIS last Super Bowl. Yea, No wonder Bill Parcells walks on water while in consideration with Jerry as well...

[Doomsday101]

Brooking was awful in coverage yesterday, that was my only point. I'm certainly not implying Carpenter > Brooking.

Carpenter was a more than serviceable nickel LBer for us last year, and he didn't look as bad as mentioned on the TD last night. We are asking for trouble if one of the young kids doesn't grab that spot soon because I don't think Brooking is a 3 down LBer anymore.

Brooking on Andrea Johnson is clearly a mismatch I don't know a LB in the league who if caught in coverage vs Johnson is going to win that battle.

[Doomsday101]

McQuistan looked like Anthony Munoz last night compared to Barron in Week 1.

Yeah right. McQ sucks you know it and I know it. If you want to praise BP for that be my guest. Fact is Jerry is held to a different standard while BP gets a pass on some of the dogs he has drafted.

[Everson24]

By the 4th quarter, the Dolphins has Procter, Berger, McQuistan, Polite, and Fasano on the field. Carpenter rotated in multiple packages and base defense on the other side of the ball.

I noticed that too. And today on Mike and Mike they were talking about what a great job the Dolphins offensive line did against the Jets pass rush. Sparano must be a much better line coach than Houck because they all looked terrible here.

[Angus]

If I am not mistaken,
Romo, Barber, Newman, Austin, Ware and Witten just to name a few were drafted under BP. This team is still thriving from the past decisions he made. I would take him as a GM over anyone name Jerry, let alone Jerry Jones. JJ is a good owner and promoter, and that is where the good ends in terms of football...:rolleyes:

You are mistaken. Romo was not drafted and he was in Dallas because of Payton, not Parcells. Parcells did draft Barber but wouldn't play him much because thought he fumbled too much. He didn't want Newman. He thought Newman was too old and he wanted someone else instead. Austin was not drafted. Parcells didn't even know he was around. Parcells wanted to draft Spears instead of Ware in Ware's spot. If Jones had let him, Ware would have been lost. He did draft Witten though, so he must be given props for that.

:)

[starchamber]

[quote=Yakuza Rich;3589317]Austin wasn't drafted, neither was Romo.

BP wanted Spears at #11, Jerry wanted Ware. Had we drafted Spears, we don't get Ware.

Correct..my error, I appologize. They were undrafted free agents (Austin and Romo). But they were brought in under Bill Parcells were they not? My original point was and is is that Jerry should stay away from the draft room. Period.

[dbair1967]

Watched some of the Phins game last night and McQuistan and Berger were starting. Phins offense looked pretty good against the Jets D and only gave up 2 sacks.

Every scheme is different, but I think Houck may not be the right coach for our style of play in regards to O-Line play.

The Dolphins offense was terrible vs Buffalo and Minny.

The Jets were missing 3 or 4 starters on defense last night as fyi. The 3 I know for sure were out were jenkins, Pace and Revis. Thats 3 of their best players.

[wileedog]

You are mistaken. Romo was not drafted and he was in Dallas because of Payton, not Parcells.

Parcells was talking about Romo in his 2nd year in pressers. He knew fully what he had and didn't have in Romo and Romo himself will tell you Bill had as much influence on his development as anyone.

Parcells did draft Barber but wouldn't play him much because thought he fumbled too much.
He didn't play him that much because he didn't view him as an every down RB. And quite frankly since Julius moved on and they gave him the starting job he hasn't been one.

He didn't want Newman. He thought Newman was too old and he wanted someone else instead.

Who? And where is that story coming from?

And Newman was old, he was 25 coming out of school. He was hitting 30 right around the time it was necessary to give him big bucks. Its definitely a reason to hesitate on a top 5 draft pick.

Austin was not drafted. Parcells didn't even know he was around.
Yeah because Parcells was known to ignore players from New Jersey.

And who didn't get Austin on the field for years until Roy got hurt?

Parcells wanted to draft Spears instead of Ware in Ware's spot. If Jones had let him, Ware would have been lost. He did draft Witten though, so he must be given props for that.

:)

And Ratliff. And brought in Kosier (a move that was highly knocked around here).

There are plenty of hits and misses to go around, but the bottom line is Bill changed the way the team approached scouting and personnel organizationally, and more than any one draft pick or FA signing that has had the biggest influence on who is on the team today.

[ejthedj]

If I am not mistaken,
Romo, Barber, Newman, Austin, Ware and Witten just to name a few were drafted under BP. This team is still thriving from the past decisions he made. I would take him as a GM over anyone name Jerry, let alone Jerry Jones. JJ is a good owner and promoter, and that is where the good ends in terms of football...:rolleyes:

BP had very little to do with most of those guys. Romo and Austin were undrafted. He didn't watch film and recruit them before they came. He wanted Spears over Ware. He waited till the 3rd round to take Witten so he could get Al Johnson. And Newman was his first draft and an obvious pick if one of the big fatties didn't fall (kevin williams and another guy, who i think was a bust). ANd let's not mention Julius over SJackson.

BP is pretty bad as a drafter. He is good at finding and coaching up gems, but sometimes because of that he reaches bad in drafts and he def lets his stereotypes of players get in the way.

[Chocolate Lab]

Carpenter looked absolutely horrible. He was getting blown out of the play almost every single time! Once he was man-handled all the way down the line by a tightend! He was pushed out over and over, I was almost embarrassed for the guy and I don't even like him. At least he was cheering and trying to get the crowd into the game though. :laugh2: Same ol' Barbie.I was in the car and listening to the game, and James Lofton was talking about a play where the WR motioned down the line and just worked Barbie... He was saying, "Come on, an NFL linebacker has to be more physical than that!" Yep, same old.

Oh well. It is interesting that Sparano can make these castoffs work. I haven't looked at them enough to know if their scheme is that different, but I do think Sparano is way better than Houck.

[Hostile]

I cannot believe a fan is jealous of the Dolphins for using our cast offs. I couldn't have read that.

[jay cee]

Berger looked alright, McQ was awful. The Fins have a pretty good O-Line, but I would say that Berger is their 4th best O-Lineman and McQ is well below him. Long and Carey were the real stars last nigh. Incognito can run block as well as anybody, but gets beat too much on pass protection. I’d still take Gurode over Berger though and I’m not big on Gurode. Holland, Davis and Kosier are far better than McQ. I think we made out well there in that trade, particularly since we were cutting McQ anyway.

I think Fasano is pretty darn good. Not a world beater, but a nice TE to have on your team. Made an awesome block last night as well.
YR

I have never understood why they would trade Fasano, for a 4th rd pick, and then use a 2nd on Bennett.

[InmanRoshi]

Yeah right. McQ sucks you know it and I know it. If you want to praise BP for that be my guest. Fact is Jerry is held to a different standard while BP gets a pass on some of the dogs he has drafted.

McQ does suck, and he was still miles better than Alex Barron in Week 1. Of course, he's getting much better OL coaching in Miami.

[Doomsday101]

McQ does suck, and he was still miles better than Alex Barron in Week 1. Of course, he's getting much better OL coaching in Miami.

So then BP is prone to pick up players who suck just as well then. :laugh2:

[InmanRoshi]

So then BP is prone to pick up players who suck just as well then. :laugh2:

The difference is Miami is taking sucky offensive lineman and turning them into servicable players because Sparano is a really great offensive line coach.

The opposite of Hudson Houck, who inherits Pro Bowl talents like Gurode and Leonard Davis and makes them worse under his tutelage.

McQuistan is the laughing stock of an internet messageboard. Alex Barron was the laughing stock of the entire league in Week 1.

[Doomsday101]

And apparently turns them into serviceable football players.

The opposite of Hudson Houck, who inherits guys like Gurode and Leonard Davis and makes them worse.

he did not service Carpenter when he was here did not do jack with some other OL guys when he was here. McQ is not a good player you want to compare ugly sisters fine ours look uglier but it does not change one thing.

[Yakuza Rich]

[quote=Yakuza Rich;3589317]
Correct..my error, I appologize. They were undrafted free agents (Austin and Romo). But they were brought in under Bill Parcells were they not? My original point was and is is that Jerry should stay away from the draft room. Period.

Really?

Choice
Felix
Free
Dez
Bennett
Phillips
Spencer
Jenkins
Ball
Scandrick
Buehler
Gurode


All Jerry picks.

And let's not forget that Parcells didn't work the draft in '03 because he wanted to see how the scouts worked. And we took Newman, Bradie and Witten that year.

And like I said, Parcells wanted Spears over Ware in '05, Jerry took Ware and then got Spears.

Jerry drafting with Ciskowski and following some of Parcells drafting 'tenets' is the least of my worries with Jerry.







YR

[dbair1967]

The difference is Miami is taking sucky offensive lineman and turning them into servicable players because Sparano is a really great offensive line coach.

The opposite of Hudson Houck, who inherits Pro Bowl talents like Gurode and Leonard Davis and makes them worse under his tutelage.

McQuistan is the laughing stock of an internet messageboard. Alex Barron was the laughing stock of the entire league in Week 1.

Houck's coached more guys into pro bowlers and Hall of Fame OL than Sparano ever will, so comments like the above are pretty laughable IMO.

Why didnt Sparano develop Jacon Rogers or Stephen Peterman? What about soem of those others we drafted?

Doug Free looks like a probowler in the making to me. Who's been coaching him? Kosier probably had his best season ever last yr, who coached the OL then?

[FLcowboy]

Hell I was shocked to see Carpenter playing for Miami and has started 2 of the 1st 3 games for them this season.

Cowboys haven't replaced Carpenter yet on defense.

[dbair1967]

Cowboys haven't replaced Carpenter yet on defense.

I'm guessing after last night, the Fish defensive coordinator is hoping to replace Carpenter pretty soon himself. Dude was pretty bad.

[Doomsday101]

Cowboys haven't replaced Carpenter yet on defense.

Really? Brooking does just as well in coverage but it also capable of making big plays when we send him on the rush as we did vs the Texans. Carp was not doing that and as for coverage both guys are at a disadvantage when put on a WR but then most LB are at a disadvantage with WR. Brooking has made plays vs TE be it pass defended and when the catch is made has been able to come up with the tackle to prevent yards after catch. Lee is the guy the Cowboys are hoping to put in nickle we will just see how that goes but Dallas is not missing Carpenter play right now.

[InmanRoshi]

Why didnt Sparano develop Jacon Rogers or Stephen Peterman?

Uhhh ....Because they were injured? Hard to develop players who can't stay healthy long enough to practice.



Houck may have been a good coach decades ago (or maybe he just had OJ Simpson, Eric Dickerson and Emmitt Smith with once in a lifetime talents who were just as good without him under other coaches), but his best days are long, long, long gone. The only thing he's done since coming to Dallas is inherit lines from Tony Wise and Tony Sparano and make them steadily worse. He's done a horrendous job since he returned, and guys like Gurode and Bigg have taken a noticable and significant step backwards since he came on board.

[burmafrd]

Uhhh ....Because they were injured? Hard to develop players who can't stay healthy long enough to practice.



Houck may have been a good coach decades ago (or maybe he just had OJ Simpson, Eric Dickerson and Emmitt Smith with once in a lifetime talents who were just as good without him under other coaches), but his best days are long, long, long gone. The only thing he's done since coming to Dallas is inherit lines from Tony Wise and Tony Sparano and make them steadily worse. He's done a horrendous job since he returned, and guys like Gurode and Bigg have taken a noticable and significant step backwards since he came on board.

Houck so far has developed ONE player in 3 years- Free.

Has any of the other players really improved since he got here?

For those desperate to deny that BP had anything to do with the rebuilding the Cowboys- grow up.