Would You Be Mad if We Went D-Line With Our First Two Picks?

[Cover 2]

If we got Nick Fairley and JJ Watt with our first two picks what would you guys think? We could still get someone like Moffitt in the 3rd, and maybe O'Dowd in the 4th.

[sureletsrace]

I would only be mad if we passed on Amukamara or Peterson to take Fairley.

Our CB depth is atrocious and Newman's probably only got like 2-3 good years left.

[UnoDallas]

extremely

[jblaze2004]

I dont think its the corners. I mean yeah corners get beat but most of the time its the safties that was suppose to give the corner help and our safties just are not providing help to our corners. I dont know if its because our linebacker coverage is not good or what.
for ex: When Drew Bree threw the touchdown pass to lance moore who jenkins had pretty good coverage on. But guess who was the saftey that bit on the playaction when he was suppose to provide help in the middle of the field? no not Ball, Sensabaug did. Dree Brees saw sensabaugh cheating on a inside route and he threw it pass him on a perfect pass to Lance moore. Sensabaugh almost kinda set a pick on jenkins.
With a good saftey play, a good scheme and pass rush our secondary would look alot better. I think jenkins hit a wall and will be back to being good next year.

So personaly I think we need to get better in the trenches. The D-line and O-line and maybe a tough physical middle linebacker with good coverage skills and we will be back to top dawg.

Bring me Nick fairley and a saftey in the second round. In free agency pick up a good Guard, or move Gurode to guard and get a center in free agency and draft a Tackle (if Sam Young doesn't show he can handle the job).

[gmoney112]

Yeah just because it would be dumb.

I'm fine with a first round defense pick, whether its a corner or defensive lineman. Your defensive line can set a tone and we can get the best in the draft.

We will have a legitimate shot in the top 2nd to pick up an impact offensive lineman. None of the OL this year are top 10-15 picks so i'm sure there will be some that fall. Our offensive line is in shambles, we need to pick up the best guy in the 2nd with the high pick to help repair the damage.

[cowboy4life]

Yes I would. The Cowboys D-line with Marcus Spears in the lineup is excellent against the run. Go back and look at games before Spears was hurt. He is not a start by any means, but he is good against the run and better than Bowen or Hatcher overall. We need to target CB and OT in the first round, CB if we end up in the top ten and OT if we perhaps trade down. New England has two first round picks next year and we could perhaps kill two birds with one stone if Peterson and the DB from Nebraska are gone when we select.

[big dog cowboy]

Would You Be Mad if We Went D-Line With Our First Two Picks?

Very mad. I don't see any way that happens.

[Cover 2]

Yes I would. The Cowboys D-line with Marcus Spears in the lineup is excellent against the run. Go back and look at games before Spears was hurt. He is not a start by any means, but he is good against the run and better than Bowen or Hatcher overall. We need to target CB and OT in the first round, CB if we end up in the top ten and OT if we perhaps trade down. New England has two first round picks next year and we could perhaps kill two birds with one stone if Peterson and the DB from Nebraska are gone when we select.
I'm not sure Spears will be back though. There are many people who think he's played his last down as a Cowboy. I would like to keep him personally, but it will depend on how much he asks for in free agency.

I'm starting to think Peterson and Amukamara won't be there for our picks, so that would just leave Brandon Harris, and I'm not sure he's worth a 1st round pick that's as high as ours.

Also Sherrod would be the only 1st round tackle that should go when we pick, but he would probably be a slight reach. Then again he could shoot up after the Combine.

[junk]

Yes I would. The Cowboys D-line with Marcus Spears in the lineup is excellent against the run. Go back and look at games before Spears was hurt. He is not a start by any means, but he is good against the run and better than Bowen or Hatcher overall. We need to target CB and OT in the first round, CB if we end up in the top ten and OT if we perhaps trade down. New England has two first round picks next year and we could perhaps kill two birds with one stone if Peterson and the DB from Nebraska are gone when we select.

Spears, Hatcher and Bowen are all free agents next year. I'd be fine with bringing Spears back for a fair deal, but I'm almost expecting him to walk at this point.

I'm almost inclined to move Ratliff back out to end and let Price try his hand at NT.

[Cover 2]

I knew this idea would be unpopular when I suggested it, but here are my reasons for wanting to do so.

Fairley and Watt would help shore up our d-line for the next 10 years (hopefully, with the draft you never know). Then when Ratliff decides to hang 'em up, you have Brent or another draft pick waiting to take over. We would have a huge upgrade in talent on the d-line which would help our secondary out by getting more pressure. This would help our weak safeties.

There will be plenty of quality o-linemen in the middle rounds. Just because we don't get one within the first two rounds doesn't mean we won't find a good one. Many people really like Moffitt and O'Dowd, so if we could get them in the middle rounds that would be good. Moffitt has decent mobility for a big man. Also I think we have bigger problems with the interior o-line as opposed to the tackle position. I know some will disagree with me here.

We could even fix the kicker position if we're not satisfied with Buehler (I am, so I would prefer we stay with him). Alex Henery from Nebraska is an amazing college kicker. I've never seen a better one than him.

I will say though that this does nothing to shore up the safety position, but then again you can't always shore up all your holes in one offseason.

[RS12]

I wouldnt be mad at all. Particularly if they went back to a 4-3 which I would love. Fariley and Rat would give them two playmakers and a good pass rush would cover up sub par safeties and mediocre corners. And yes I'm well aware of the needs elsewhere.

[Manwiththeplan]

Our CBs will play much better with a better pass rush, so while I would be suprised, I wouldn't be upset with us picking d-linemen with our first 2 picks.

[UnoDallas]

I kinda like this kid Watt - in the second I could see us grabbing him

[Cover 2]

I kinda like this kid Watt - in the second I could see us grabbing him
If he declares and he's there when he picks in the 2nd I hope we take him. He would be a steal.

[SDogo]

flashback to the Odrick debate last year.

[UnoDallas]

flashback to the Odrick debate last year.

yea think SDogo

I was pretty impressed by him the other day

but why would he come out this year if he waits a year he might in the top ten

who knows

[Zaxor]

I am never mad at passing a position if the guy we take can play and play well

[SDogo]

I am never mad at passing a position if the guy we take can play and play well

Thank you

I'm so sick of the mentality that you pass on a good player because you already have a good player there. There is so much more involved in drafting then saying "Player A fits Need C" so that's who we choose but that's what people want to believe.

I said this in another thread and I'll say it again. I have spoken a lot of words on this board and never have I been so confident that I was right BUT I have never been around a Scout, scouting department or NFL team that is afraid to bring in the person they think is the best player available regardless of level of competition or position.

[nflandbooze]

The first 2 picks? Yeah, I probably would be disappointed. If it was only one of the first 2 picks, then no. I'd be fine with that.

[TheCount]

I don't think Watt is neccesarily a player we should be targetting so high in the 2nd round, but I think the dude has a pretty great first step and is virtually unblockable.

If he was there in the 3rd, I'd be more than happy to snap him up, just not sure about a high 2nd.

Now if we took someone else in the first other than Fairley, then Watt becomes more of a contender for that high 2nd. Wouldn't be upset with Marvin Austin there either.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Thank you

I'm so sick of the mentality that you pass on a good player because you already have a good player there. There is so much more involved in drafting then saying "Player A fits Need C" so that's who we choose but that's what people want to believe.

I said this in another thread and I'll say it again. I have spoken a lot of words on this board and never have I been so confident that I was right BUT I have never been around a Scout, scouting department or NFL team that is afraid to bring in the person they think is the best player available regardless of level of competition or position.

Some things to consider.

If we are moving back to a 4-3...I would have no problem with it. And I have no idea if that is what Jason would want to do next year...it might very well be as that is what he has been used to in the past when he was playing.

There seems to be a thing on this board where some people want BPA no matter what.

BPA no matter what is too closed minded for me and I think it is silly thinking to think that way.

At the same time drafting just for need is silly as well.

There are some exceptions to both of those.

If you have no needs whatsoever. If your team has good players across the board and you have no problems than by all means go BPA.

If you have needs at certain positions and you just draft for need often times you will reach in the draft and some times reach too far and wind up with players that are not that great (remember the three gloves aka cb draft, drafting QC and so on).

IMO you have to use a method of BPA that fits a need.

If the BPA on your board is a Dlineman but you really have needs elsewhere and are pretty much set in stone with your starters...no need to take the Dlineman. You can trade down and try to pick up extra picks. OR you can look at a player that is also in the same range of BPA that also fits a need.

For example...if you have Patrick Peterson sitting there and you also have a DT tackle that is about the same draft grade concerning BPA...you take the position of need because the difference is so slim.

This team is not in the position to take BPA no matter what at this time IMO. There are questions on the Oline, there are questions in the secondary, there might even be questions at RB as crazy as some may think that is. If you have similarly rated players at all of those positions but instead decide that you would rather take a dlineman because he is rated one draft slot higher (slot not round) on your BPA list...why take him over a position of need.

If you have a list that rates the players 1-10 (for the overall draft) of ratings...the number one is a player that you don't have a need as much as the player listed at number two...I say take the second player...or trade down.

A 3-4 defensive end is probably not going to make a huge difference in rushing the passer when they are more put in place to watch the run or engage blockers for the 3-4 OLB.


The only way I think we go Dline is one of the following scenarios play out...

If there is a stud there at NT that would allow Ratliff to move to DE and that player is considered far superior to any other player available.

If Garrett, with Jones giving the go ahead, wants to move back to a 4-3.

There is no other player close to BPA at another position and we can not trade down.

[TheCount]

There seems to be a thing on this board where some people want BPA no matter what.

BPA no matter what is too closed minded for me and I think it is silly thinking to think that way.

I don't think I've noticed anyone really saying they want the best player period around here.

The problem is that we happen to have a pretty high 1st round pick this year coming our way, and I think in that position you have an obligation to take a talented player, not necessarily a need player.

But my philosophy is in line with yours in that I wouldn't hesitate to spend a high pick on a top tier NT in the 3-4, than a DE.

I do find it interesting however that for years, when we were winning games, the idea of moving Ratliff to DE was considered a running joke and got you a sound mocking but now that we've got 3 wins and a whole bunch of loses, it doesn't seem so far fetched.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't think I've noticed anyone really saying they want the best player period around here.

The problem is that we happen to have a pretty high 1st round pick this year coming our way, and I think in that position you have an obligation to take a talented player, not necessarily a need player.

But my philosophy is in line with yours in that I wouldn't hesitate to spend a high pick on a top tier NT in the 3-4, than a DE.

I do find it interesting however that for years, when we were winning games, the idea of moving Ratliff to DE was considered a running joke and got you a sound mocking but now that we've got 3 wins and a whole bunch of loses, it doesn't seem so far fetched.

Well there are a couple of things at play here.

We got three of our 3-4 DEs who will be FAs.

Do we sign one, let two walk. Sign Two let one walk...sign none and let them all walk.

Do we get one or more via FA.

I think it would have to be someone they think is an exceptional NT player and them letting a couple of the current 3-4 DEs walk via FA.

On top of that I don't know if there is a NT in the top of the round that is worthy of the pick. Might be one later that they like.

Something to keep the offseason interesting along with If JG becomes the head coach and if so who will they get to be the other coaches.

[TheCount]

Well there are a couple of things at play here.

We got three of our 3-4 DEs who will be FAs.

Do we sign one, let two walk. Sign Two let one walk...sign none and let them all walk.

Do we get one or more via FA.

I think it would have to be someone they think is an exceptional NT player and them letting a couple of the current 3-4 DEs walk via FA.

On top of that I don't know if there is a NT in the top of the round that is worthy of the pick. Might be one later that they like.

Something to keep the offseason interesting along with If JG becomes the head coach and if so who will they get to be the other coaches.

I don't think there is, personally. Unfortunately.

I'm interested to see how things shake out as well.

[Manwiththeplan]

I think Stephen Paea (oregon state) will get a lot of looks from 3-4 teams. Even though he's only 312, at 6-1 he has a very good frame to anchor the nose. On top of that he's been pretty productive as a pass rusher

[SDogo]

Some things to consider.

If we are moving back to a 4-3...I would have no problem with it. And I have no idea if that is what Jason would want to do next year...it might very well be as that is what he has been used to in the past when he was playing.

There seems to be a thing on this board where some people want BPA no matter what.

BPA no matter what is too closed minded for me and I think it is silly thinking to think that way.

At the same time drafting just for need is silly as well.

There are some exceptions to both of those.

If you have no needs whatsoever. If your team has good players across the board and you have no problems than by all means go BPA.

If you have needs at certain positions and you just draft for need often times you will reach in the draft and some times reach too far and wind up with players that are not that great (remember the three gloves aka cb draft, drafting QC and so on).

IMO you have to use a method of BPA that fits a need.

If the BPA on your board is a Dlineman but you really have needs elsewhere and are pretty much set in stone with your starters...no need to take the Dlineman. You can trade down and try to pick up extra picks. OR you can look at a player that is also in the same range of BPA that also fits a need.

For example...if you have Patrick Peterson sitting there and you also have a DT tackle that is about the same draft grade concerning BPA...you take the position of need because the difference is so slim.

This team is not in the position to take BPA no matter what at this time IMO. There are questions on the Oline, there are questions in the secondary, there might even be questions at RB as crazy as some may think that is. If you have similarly rated players at all of those positions but instead decide that you would rather take a dlineman because he is rated one draft slot higher (slot not round) on your BPA list...why take him over a position of need.

If you have a list that rates the players 1-10 (for the overall draft) of ratings...the number one is a player that you don't have a need as much as the player listed at number two...I say take the second player...or trade down.

A 3-4 defensive end is probably not going to make a huge difference in rushing the passer when they are more put in place to watch the run or engage blockers for the 3-4 OLB.


The only way I think we go Dline is one of the following scenarios play out...

If there is a stud there at NT that would allow Ratliff to move to DE and that player is considered far superior to any other player available.

If Garrett, with Jones giving the go ahead, wants to move back to a 4-3.

There is no other player close to BPA at another position and we can not trade down.

Very well put and you hit on a key point. It comes down to grading.

Like you stated, if you have a player at a position of need graded out equal to or even a little below a player that is not considered a need you take the player of need.

Where people continue to get it wrong is and we will use this example. If you have a DL graded out 1-8/10 (1st round, 8/10 spot projected) that is not a immediate need and a FS graded out 1-15/20 it's a no brainier. You either take the DL or maneuver your pick to obtain better value but we all know that's not always easy.

I find this is going to be a very interesting year for the Cowboys. The obvious positions of need OL and Safety lack depth and that guaranteed top 10 player. It may very well be a 1st round that finds Dallas picking the legitimate BPA or force Jerry to do what Jerry loves to do best and pick up the phone.

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's been speculated that the Cowboys are interested in Stephen Paea DT out of Oregon St. Cowboys have scouted him multiple times this year.

[Bonecrusher#31]

We need to take Amukamara or Peterson 1st then Nate Solder
T/Colorado, Matt Reynolds T/BYU or someone similar 2nd...

[SDogo]

It's been speculated that the Cowboys are interested in Stephen Paea DT out of Oregon St. Cowboys have scouted him multiple times this year.

If we switched back to the 4-3 it would be a great pick.

[Chris in Arizona]

If we switched back to the 4-3 it would be a great pick.

Agreed. I do think he is nasty enough to play DE in a 3-4 but huge tackles (6'6" guys) will engulf him.

[SDogo]

Agreed. I do think he is nasty enough to play DE in a 3-4 but huge tackles (6'6" guys) will engulf him.

Think Russell Maryland with more athletic ability. Neither could stand up over time in a 3-4 and neither was built to play DE in a 3-4 but both are custom built to shoot gaps and occupy blocks in a 4-3.

[Manwiththeplan]

Agreed. I do think he is nasty enough to play DE in a 3-4 but huge tackles (6'6" guys) will engulf him.

If we drafted him, he would play the nose. As you imply, way to short to play end.

[Manwiththeplan]

If we switched back to the 4-3 it would be a great pick.

why do you think he would be a bad fit in a 3-4?

[TheCount]

It's been speculated that the Cowboys are interested in Stephen Paea DT out of Oregon St. Cowboys have scouted him multiple times this year.

Of course.

[AmishCowboy]

Of course. Hey, Count, Love your mock draft!

[casmith07]

I'd be furious.

[MegaMagick]

If we got Nick Fairley and JJ Watt with our first two picks what would you guys think? We could still get someone like Moffitt in the 3rd, and maybe O'Dowd in the 4th.

Our two biggest problems(not counting the coaching staff) are oline and the secondary, if we don't take one of the 3(peterson, prince, or Sherrod) big players at that position while we have a early draft year i'd be pissed.

[Cover 2]

Our two biggest problems(not counting the coaching staff) are oline and the secondary, if we don't take one of the 3(peterson, prince, or Sherrod) big players at that position while we have a early draft year i'd be pissed.
I would say dline is a bigger current need than db, although db's are more valuable. Dline would improve the pass rush if it were Fairley and Watt, so the db's wouldn't be in coverage as long.

If we could still get Moffitt and O'Dowd that would give us 2 quality interior line prospects which is the weakness of our oline IMO.

[Eskimo]

I think our CBs as a group are above average. The problem is that the ILBs and Safeties are so horrendous in coverage that they make them look bad. This problem is compounded by a DL that has only one good passrusher and LBs who are not good passrushers when we send the blitz.

I think given the way the draft board is shaping up (Peterson off the board) we are best off spending the pick on a 3-4 DE with passrushing ability or a dynamic 3-4 OLB to compliment Ware. I would like Fairley - big, fast, physical, aggressive, great motor, good passrushing ability as interior DL. Line him up next to Ware and Ratliff and watch them create havoc.

The other option would be to trade down later in the first and gain a second rounder. Then try to grab an OL and a safety.

[TheCoolFan]

At this point, we actually need to get DLine help in the 1st round now, preferably Spencer's replacement.

[Doomsday101]

If we got Nick Fairley and JJ Watt with our first two picks what would you guys think? We could still get someone like Moffitt in the 3rd, and maybe O'Dowd in the 4th.

Depends on who is on the board. I would hate to pass up a top OL player or a DB. Main thing is to bring in top talent no matter what position.

[TheCount]

Hey, Count, Love your mock draft!

Thanks man. Of course I reserve the right to change my mind at a moments notice and take 3 TE's ;)

[Double Trouble]

Fairley is a dramatically better player than Odrick ever was at PSU. He was the most dominant defensive player in the conference that easily has the best defensive talent in the country.

Our front 3 is weak overall. I'd much rather have jags the level of Olshansky and Bowen and Hatcher in the secondary than on the DL.

If OL isn't there, you can't force it.