Mike Williams runs 4.61 40

[Avery]

On his first run.

Second run to come...

[WoodysGirl]

Changed his mind at the last minute...

unofficially 4.61

[Q_the_man]

bp and jj were really on him

[WoodysGirl]

On his first run.

Second run to come...
dang you beat me to it...:) .. cool tho... luv the combine stuff...

[Avery]

LOL.

Barely beat you. :D

I'll close my thread just as a sign of respect.

[The30YardSlant]

Im telling ya, he is SLOW

[Eskimo]

Usually the unofficial times are a bit fast so expect this one to come in 4.65-4.70 when all is said and done.

This increases the chances of him falling to us so I'm pleased.

[Q_the_man]

bp and jj were really on him
Troy williamson ran 4.38 but runs funny to me

[Dyluke]

WOOO! Keep that 4.6 time Mike! Does he fall to 11 with that time? I hope so

[Jimmie]

I could care less about 40 times. I look at what the player does on the field more than what he runs in pair of shorts and track shoes. :beer2:

[Cajuncowboy]

Changed his mind at the last minute...

unofficially 4.61

Hey that's Michael Irvin Speed. I'll take it. The guy is a playmaker.

[Avery]

This Mathis dude is scorching.

[MichaelWinicki]

You guys want a "burner".

4.61 ain't it.

I'm officially off the Mike Williams band wagon.

He's just another "Key".

[Cajuncowboy]

You guys want a "burner".

4.61 ain't it.

I'm officially off the Mike Williams band wagon.

He's just another "Key".

He's another Irvin my friend.

[Duane]

You guys want a "burner".

4.61 ain't it.

I'm officially off the Mike Williams band wagon.

He's just another "Key".
I'll take another Key in a heartbeat.

[JackMagist]

That's about the same as he was running last year which is why his stock was falling before he was declaired inelligable. As I recall he was projected at around #15 last year but of course Roy Williams was there and last year was deep at WR.

We're talking Keyshawn Johnson clone here with this kid. I like him but I want someone faster to stretch the field since Glenn needs replacing more than Keyshawn does.

[Champsheart]

bp and jj were really on him

What do you mean?

[MichaelWinicki]

I'll take another Key in a heartbeat.


But he isn't going to help our offense much.

Bledsoe plays a "deep" game.

[Eskimo]

You guys want a "burner".

4.61 ain't it.

I'm officially off the Mike Williams band wagon.

He's just another "Key".

Let's not make the Suggs mistake again this year when we pass on the better player because of a borderline 40-yard dash time. Another thing to consider is Williams depends on his size, strength, hands, leaping ability and ball adjustment to make plays - he doesn't beat guys by running fast straight down the field.

[WoodysGirl]

You guys want a "burner".

4.61 ain't it.

I'm officially off the Mike Williams band wagon.

He's just another "Key".
People have been saying that that he was another Key since last year. That's why he was falling in the last draft. Doesn't mean he won't be a good WR or even a great one, but as for him being in that Terrell Owens model (big AND fast) he's not.

[Duane]

But he isn't going to help our offense much.

Bledsoe plays a "deep" game.
Not while Key is here but how many more years does Johnson have? One or two? We have Glenn to stretch defenses while Key and MW could go underneath.

[Hollywood Henderson]

Good points Esk!

I am for who theye feel is the best available IMPACT player...

[Fan Since 77]

I think a receivers quickness is more important than straight up speed.

I mean, let's be honest, he's not going out there and running fly patterns every play.

[Q_the_man]

What do you mean?As far as the camera was on JJ and BP and I was trying to read BP lips and he thought it was about a 4.55. I think us and Gibbs are looking at MW, I also think we trade up for him

[MichaelWinicki]

Not while Key is here but how many more years does Johnson have? One or two? We have Glenn to stretch defenses while Key and MW could go underneath.


But from that standpoint draft us a player that can help us right now... who can start from day 1. Even if Williams were drafted by us as long as Glenn and Key are here then he ain't startin.

[Duane]

As far as the camera was on JJ and BP and I was trying to read BP lips and he thought it was about a 4.55. I think us and Gibbs are looking at MW, I also think we trade up for him
I thought he said 4.59. Anyway, Jerry and Bill were watching the WRs pretty hard.

[Fan Since 77]

I thought he said 4.59. Anyway, Jerry and Bill were watching the WRs pretty hard.

maybe an indication we won't go after a WR in free agency.

[Avery]

I don't think that is going to hurt him too much to be honest.

[Duane]

maybe an indication we won't go after a WR in free agency.
Maybe. I can see us drafting a WR late in the 1st round if MW doesn't fall to us.

[lkelly]

You could see Parcells mouthing "4.59" when he ran the first time. He's a 4.6 guy hand-timed, a little slower electronically timed. He probably won't have a good shuttle time either since he's so big.

Doesn't mean he's not a good WR, just not going to be elusive. It was interesting to see him have several rolling starts (false starts) in the 40. You'd think that since he's had over a year to focus on just that type of test that he'd be more polished.

Matt Jones, the gangly former QB ran with the QBs for the 40. He calmly got into an impromptu stance and busted off two runs in the 4.35-4.40 hand-timed range. Wow. Won't have a good shuttle either, but that IS some deep speed. He's raw as hell, but if you want a poor man's Mike Williams, he could be interesting. He certainly surprised me, as I pegged him as more of a 4.5 guy at best.

[speedkilz88]

People have been saying that that he was another Key since last year. That's why he was falling in the last draft. Doesn't mean he won't be a good WR or even a great one, but as for him being in that Terrell Owens model (big AND fast) he's not.Terrell Owens ran a 4.63 and had a 33" vj in 1996.

[MichaelWinicki]

Let's not make the Suggs mistake again this year when we pass on the better player because of a borderline 40-yard dash time. Another thing to consider is Williams depends on his size, strength, hands, leaping ability and ball adjustment to make plays - he doesn't beat guys by running fast straight down the field.


Oh come'on Eskimo let's not make every guy that doesn't have good measurables the second coming of Suggs. Believe it or not most of the time the measurables ARE a good way to judge someone. Perfect? No. But not bad either.

[noletime1995]

I'd like to get a WR early in the draft. First 2 rounds and rd 1 is fine. I think the draft is the way to go, cause that's a position where we need to get younger.

[Wolverine]

So what if Williams only ran a 4.61. Everyone would be ratin him higher if he ran a 4.59 but what so many people dont think about is there is only a .02 dif between 4.59 and 4.61.

If this hurts where he will go in the draft then fine. Ill be glad if he is there at #11 and we get him. The man is 6'5" 230 lbs. He will create size mismatches and when we get in the Red Zone his size will make a real big dif for us.

He has already proven he can make things hap on the field even with this 4.61 speed. He gets in the endzone he moves the chains and he is very very strong.

Do you realize how much he will wear down secondaries if we get him the ball 8 to 10 times a game. Cuz of his size and strength he can wear defensive players down.

40 times are overrated. Look what he has done on the field. Not on the clock. I see some have jumped off the Mike Williams bandwagon but Im still on it and will be real happy if I hear --- with the 11th pick of the draft the Cowboys take WR Mike Williams.

Think about this. He has already proven he can play and be a playmaker with just average speed so I think he has a good chance at makin it in the NFL.

Here is one last thing for all of you to think about. The great 40 times you are seein are bein run in shirts and shorts. But are they this fast in full gear. That is the big question. There are some guys out there cuz they are so big and strong they can run just as fast in their gear as they do in shorts. It sounds strange but its true. I bet some of these faster guys you see arent as fast when the gear is on but when the gear is on Williams I bet he doesnt lose a step.

Count me as still bein on the Williams bandwagon big time.

[scottsp]

Of course forty times don't define the player. We've seen that to be the case when referencing such wideouts as Michael Irvin, Jerry Rice, Keyshawn Johnson, Anquan Boldin, et al. These guys were not impressive running for scouts, pre-draft.

If Williams does turn in a sub-4.5 time, we would not be concerning ourselves with it anyway because we would never sniff him at eleven. With wideouts, especially one like him, I'm far more concerned with how he runs routes, how he snaps them off. Does he round his breaks? How does he catch the ball off a pro arm, turning and catching when the ball is right on him after he turns into it. Lots of good college wideouts have trouble with that. How does he go after the ball? And what does he do after the catch?

All those things are items I am far more concerned with more than a friggin forty time. Doesn't mean he's the only player I want there, but Mike Williams is certainly one guy I really like. But please, please, please don't become overly enamored with what the clock says on this kid. It's not the tell all.

[Champsheart]

So what if Williams only ran a 4.61. Everyone would be ratin him higher if he ran a 4.59 but what so many people dont think about is there is only a .02 dif between 4.59 and 4.61.

If this hurts where he will go in the draft then fine. Ill be glad if he is there at #11 and we get him. The man is 6'5" 230 lbs. He will create size mismatches and when we get in the Red Zone his size will make a real big dif for us.

He has already proven he can make things hap on the field even with this 4.61 speed. He gets in the endzone he moves the chains and he is very very strong.

Do you realize how much he will wear down secondaries if we get him the ball 8 to 10 times a game. Cuz of his size and strength he can wear defensive players down.

40 times are overrated. Look what he has done on the field. Not on the clock. I see some have jumped off the Mike Williams bandwagon but Im still on it and will be real happy if I hear --- with the 11th pick of the draft the Cowboys take WR Mike Williams.

Think about this. He has already proven he can play and be a playmaker with just average speed so I think he has a good chance at makin it in the NFL.

Here is one last thing for all of you to think about. The great 40 times you are seein are bein run in shirts and shorts. But are they this fast in full gear. That is the big question. There are some guys out there cuz they are so big and strong they can run just as fast in their gear as they do in shorts. It sounds strange but its true. I bet some of these faster guys you see arent as fast when the gear is on but when the gear is on Williams I bet he doesnt lose a step.

Count me as still bein on the Williams bandwagon big time.

Well golly be darn! :)

This is probably the first post I have ever read of yours I actually agree with, at least most of it.

Mike Williams would look awesome with the STAR on his helmet. I do not care what time he ran, he is a playmaker.
The thing about Williams is he does not have to outrun anybody. He is so strong, and positions him self so well, has such great hands, that he just wins the battle.

[scottsp]

Now I would certainly refer to prospects' times when I want to differentiate between two similar players or those who might otherwise grade out fairly close to each other. But there are many other criteria to consider, measureables and otherwise.

The underwear olympics only tell you so much.

[Hostile]

Of course forty times don't define the player. We've seen that to be the case when referencing such wideouts as Michael Irvin, Jerry Rice, Keyshawn Johnson, Anquan Boldin, et al. These guys were not impressive running for scouts, pre-draft.

If Williams does turn in a sub-4.5 time, we would not be concerning ourselves with it anyway because we would never sniff him at eleven. With wideouts, especially one like him, I'm far more concerned with how he runs routes, how he snaps them off. Does he round his breaks? How does he catch the ball off a pro arm, turning and catching when the ball is right on him after he turns into it. Lots of good college wideouts have trouble with that. How does he go after the ball? And what does he do after the catch?

All those things are items I am far more concerned with more than a friggin forty time. Doesn't mean he's the only player I want there, but Mike Williams is certainly one guy I really like. But please, please, please don't become overly enamored with what the clock says on this kid. It's not the tell all.Great post. Right on the money. How fast was your 40 time at Mizzou? Just curious.

[Eskimo]

Oh come'on Eskimo let's not make every guy that doesn't have good measurables the second coming of Suggs. Believe it or not most of the time the measurables ARE a good way to judge someone. Perfect? No. But not bad either.

Yeah he's no speedster, but this guy dominated college ball as a true Freshman and then followed it up with an equally impressive Soph campaign demonstrating elite WR skills.

The 40 is more useful when you are trying to evaluate some of these small conference guys who may have gotten by with speed but are only 4.5 guys on the clock - that should throw up a flag. I think it's also more important with a small guy than it is with a big guy whose game isn't so speed-dependent.

In all honesty, 4.61 ain't that bad for a guy with his size and strength. I don't know if it is enough to drop him to #11 but we will regret it if we don't take him.

Any similarities to 1988 when Irvin was our concensus #1 and dropped all the way down to #11?

[dbair1967]

Im telling ya, he is SLOW

aint as slow as Maurice Clarett though...

4.6 with his height and size isnt that bad IMO...I think he's probably pretty pleased and if he chooses to re-time at USC he'll probably be in the high 4.5's

Jerry Rice ran 4.6 something too...Michael Irvin in his prime was prob never much better than 4.55...Steve Largent didnt break any speed records...Keyshawn Johnson certainly isnt a burner

look at the film of his games, he makes plays downfield...MW's gonna be a really good player

David

[scottsp]

Haaaah. You bastid. I could always run okay. My fastest time was a 4.52-4-55, but that was never my problem. I had a slight problem with tackling. How should I put this? I was terrible. Now I could play in space just fine, but please God, don't ask me to bring someone to the ground.

Not an issue you want to have as a DB in a conference with OU, Nebraska, and Colorado (it was the Big Eight back then). And no, we were not very good. And as you already know, Hos, I saw the field about as often as Aaron Gibson hit the salad bar.

[Hostile]

Yeah he's no speedster, but this guy dominated college ball as a true Freshman and then followed it up with an equally impressive Soph campaign demonstrating elite WR skills.

The 40 is more useful when you are trying to evaluate some of these small conference guys who may have gotten by with speed but are only 4.5 guys on the clock - that should throw up a flag. I think it's also more important with a small guy than it is with a big guy whose game isn't so speed-dependent.

In all honesty, 4.61 ain't that bad for a guy with his size and strength. I don't know if it is enough to drop him to #11 but we will regret it if we don't take him.

Any similarities to 1988 when Irvin was our concensus #1 and dropped all the way down to #11?Eskimo, that was a clinic right there. Aces man.

[dbair1967]

Matt Jones, the gangly former QB ran with the QBs for the 40. He calmly got into an impromptu stance and busted off two runs in the 4.35-4.40 hand-timed range. Wow. Won't have a good shuttle either, but that IS some deep speed. He's raw as hell, but if you want a poor man's Mike Williams, he could be interesting. He certainly surprised me, as I pegged him as more of a 4.5 guy at best.

some names for ya...Alex Wright, Ed Hervey, Stepfret Williams

Mike Williams is gonna be good...he may not have straight line speed but I constantly saw highlights of him getting deep on people...more importantly I saw him gaining alot of yards after catch...nobody runs the fly or the deep post every play

Michael Irvin and Jerry Rice both made more than their share of long plays in their prime...niether was much faster (if any) than 4.6

David

[dbair1967]

Terrell Owens ran a 4.63 and had a 33" vj in 1996.

I am pretty sure he was in the 97 draft...we passed on owens and took Stepfret Williams for that very reason...Switzer and Jones both later said they wanted the burner

David

[jimmy40]

But he isn't going to help our offense much.

Bledsoe plays a "deep" game.No problems, Bledsoe holds the ball long enough for me to get deep.

[Hostile]

Haaaah. You bastid. I could always run okay. My fastest time was a 4.52-4-55, but that was never my problem. I had a slight problem with tackling. How should I put this? I was terrible. Now I could play in space just fine, but please God, don't ask me to bring someone to the ground.

Not an issue you want to have as a DB in a conference with OU, Nebraska, and Colorado (it was the Big Eight back then). And no, we were not very good. And as you already know, Hos, I saw the field about as often as Aaron Gibson hit the salad bar.Mizzou is a slow track so I find that a very respectable time.

Deion couldn't tackle either. You just aren't as pretty as he is. :D.

I actually asked for a reason. In my opinion speed can be neutralized, heart cannot.

His 40 time doesn't bug me much at all just like Suggs didn't and you remember how high I was on that bandwagon preaching.

[jterrell]

MW will rank between the 2 and 5th best WR on different teams boards now which means picks 10-35 or so.
That 4.61 is a slow time and many TEs will better it.

But I give the kid props for running here against his peers.

The weight is down below 230 which honestly is a bigger issue to me.

I have been touting Matt Jones for a while. He is a playmaker who can help at TE/WR if given a chance to develop. I didnt know he was a sub 4.5 guy tho.

MW will have a very good chance of being there for us but it will be interesting to see what Wash and Minn think as they both need WRs.

He'll get another chance at his pro day and his hands need to be top notch, but they seem to be.

Michael Irvin comparisons seem pretty accurate when you allow for the gradual size increase at WR.

[jterrell]

Haaaah. You bastid. I could always run okay. My fastest time was a 4.52-4-55, but that was never my problem. I had a slight problem with tackling. How should I put this? I was terrible. Now I could play in space just fine, but please God, don't ask me to bring someone to the ground.

Not an issue you want to have as a DB in a conference with OU, Nebraska, and Colorado (it was the Big Eight back then). And no, we were not very good. And as you already know, Hos, I saw the field about as often as Aaron Gibson hit the salad bar.
Well I could tackle quite well but couldn't cover a blanket and that was in the SWC when Houston was using the friggin run and shoot. Go Figure.

I ran a 4.65 to 4.69 in the 8 or 9 times I was officially times. Of course I ran a 4.5 with high school hand-timing.

Do you remember a guy named Kenneth that played for a year or so in 1990-91? I cant remember his last name now which is a shame because it means I am old and forgetful but he went to Missou. He was a legit 4.3 guy but kept getting shoulder injuries. He was a CB/kick returner. Started for our high school as a freshman and literally no one ever did that.

Ok the oxygen finally reached my brain: His lane name is Huggins. Kenneth Huggins.

[ghettogandhi]

No one is questioning whether Mike Williams will be a good wide receiver or not - what we are questioning is whether he will be a great or dominating wide reciever that you would expect from a top 10 pick-

I for one like him- of course I would prefer someone with good deep speed also but if not the guy with the great hands and good play making ability is a close second-

I would take Mike Williams if he is there at 11- will he be there- no way-

the skins, the bears and the jaguars all are in the market for a wide receiver-

If we come away with mike williams at 11 and shawn merriman at 20 I will shed a tear of joy- will it happen probably not but I can dream cant I-

the more likely scenario will have us taking merriman at 11 and troy williamson at 20- I would be almost as excited under that scenario- either way I love having two first round picks

[scottsp]

Had a good friend who played and graduated from UNT in 1992. He was in the Niners camp for about a month before getting cut. He was a fleet corner. I mean really fast. He was also strong and covered very nicely, just a tad undersized at 5'9".

Now Greg was the man the first four days when they were in shorts and all that was being run by the offense was seven-on-seven. Skeleton stuff is nice when you have the wheels like that. You look reallllll pretty.

The the first Friday comes and the pads go on. He works out pretty good still, handling their younger wideouts well and all is good. Trust me, none of them would ever outrun him. Life was good. Friday afternoon workout comes calling. Greg gets the call to step in at corner, working against the first team Niner O.

Greg, meet Jerry Rice - up close and personal.

The practice situation was third down, ten to go. And understand, my friend is a rather confident fella. He plays up and tight. Yeah, on Jerry Rice. After all, he wasn't going to get taken deep. Ball is snapped, gets a decent jam. He's step-for-step with absolutely no separation for about nine yards. At the fifteen-yard mark, Greg is still going strong - still not getting beat deep. There's just one small problem. Ol' Jerry's out broke at at twelve yards.

Greg finally turned to find the ball, man....anything. Whattaya know? Jerry Rice is right in front of him with the ball. He then figures that he will simply force the receiver out of bounds. They're faced up along the sideline. It's not that hard. Well, it wouldn't have been had it not been for a little shoulder dip and headslap that left my friend's face down eating grass.

Greg said he looked up and just watched for a few seconds while #80 trotted about twenty yards until the whistle blew. Funniest thing about it, as he tells it, Rice never ever in that little exchange reached top-end speed. He said he ran about three-quarters the entire route and there was absolutely nothing he could do about it.

That "gear" is rarely used before the ball is in hand. Unless a receiver is running old number nine, precision and squaring off are far more important. Staying low in and out of cuts is key. Speed is a wonderful device to possess, but it's merely one tool. The really good ones know this all too well.

[speedkilz88]

I am pretty sure he was in the 97 draft...we passed on owens and took Stepfret Williams for that very reason...Switzer and Jones both later said they wanted the burner

DavidI have a 1996 draft book in my hand!(I win :p: ) Terrell Owens was the 89th pick in the third round. Stepfret Williams and Mike Ulafale were comp picks for the Cowboys at 94 and 95 respectively. We didn't have a chance for Owens with those picks. He was from UT-Chatanooga which hurt his evaluation. Dallas did take Kavika Pittman(Rnd 2, 37), Randall Godfrey(2, 49), and Clay Shiver(3, 67) ahead of TO.

[scottsp]

Well I could tackle quite well but couldn't cover a blanket and that was in the SWC when Houston was using the friggin run and shoot. Go Figure.

I ran a 4.65 to 4.69 in the 8 or 9 times I was officially times. Of course I ran a 4.5 with high school hand-timing.

Do you remember a guy named Kenneth that played for a year or so in 1990-91? I cant remember his last name now which is a shame because it means I am old and forgetful but he went to Missou. He was a legit 4.3 guy but kept getting shoulder injuries. He was a CB/kick returner. Started for our high school as a freshman and literally no one ever did that.

Ok the oxygen finally reached my brain: His lane name is Huggins. Kenneth Huggins.

Sorry, jt. Don't recall him, which isn't saying much for me. A guy named Mo Benson basically returned all kicks/punts and was our best corner three years I was there. We also dressed a dozen DBs and had another six or so at practice. Do you know if Kenneth was shirted at all?