Help: Give me the low down - Von Miller

[GloryDaysRBack]

I see a lot of people around here want Quinn..Von Miller is basically projected slightly lower than Quinn..what are the differences between the two? Pros and cons for Miller? Would you guys be happy with Miller at 9? I will be honest, I know almost nothing about this guy..surprised he's rated so high..

[cowboyjoe]

I see a lot of people around here want Quinn..Von Miller is basically projected slightly lower than Quinn..what are the differences between the two? Pros and cons for Miller? Would you guys be happy with Miller at 9? I will be honest, I know almost nothing about this guy..surprised he's rated so high..

Nope Quinn, bigger, faster, possibly another monster at Outside linebacker like Ware.

Miller is ok, but smaller alittle

QUINN Robert
North Carolina
6- 5.0...265...4.67 -------- 465.24
Tremendous Test Numbers -Heck of pass rusher -A low lethal power burst.. Brain Surgery as a prep.. 11 Sacks in 09,,

--MILLER Von

6- 3.0...248...4.62 -------- 475.76
Successful College pass rusher, Real Athlete, in a search and destroy position Run ??

Now, look at Ware's size, and remember Quinn missed this year due to suspension, could be a steal at 9th to 15th pick. Not sure if could play outside linebacker, but I think he can, could push the dog out of spencer too.

94 WARE Demarcus . 6- 4.0 259 4.62 867.93

[CATCH17]

He is one demensional. We already have Victor Butler so no thanks.

[GloryDaysRBack]

Thanks Joe...I don't think Quinn is available at 9...he could but my gut is saying he won't be. Very early though.

[GloryDaysRBack]

He is one demensional. We already have Victor Butler so no thanks.

I am praying Von = Bey-bey and Quinn = Dez...If you catch my drift

[Idgit]

Thanks Joe...I don't think Quinn is available at 9...he could but my gut is saying he won't be. Very early though.

There are already a dozen players who won't be available at 9. I'm guessing when it's all said and done, one or more of them are.

[cowboyjoe]

Thanks Joe...I don't think Quinn is available at 9...he could but my gut is saying he won't be. Very early though.

i think he will glorydays, why 2 main reasons

didnt play last year at college, with suspension, big red flag
2nd, had brain surgery, another red flag

most players fall due to things like this, remember, that dez didnt have some issues like him, to a degree and dez just like randy moss fell in the draft

now i do think that quinn will go somewhere around the 15th to 20th pick, to much talent to pass up, but not before the 12th pick or so in 1st round

[GloryDaysRBack]

There are already a dozen players who won't be available at 9. I'm guessing when it's all said and done, one or more of them are.

Depends who you ask. I have Quinn as a top 5 player..guys like Dareus and Prince could fall to us.

[cowboyjoe]

I am praying Von = Bey-bey and Quinn = Dez...If you catch my drift

understand you buddy, von has potential to be a really good linebacker, but i think Quinn could be a monster at DE and in 3-4 outside like charles haley was that put fear in opposing offenses

[GloryDaysRBack]

i think he will glorydays, why 2 main reasons

didnt play last year at college, with suspension, big red flag
2nd, had brain surgery, another red flag

most players fall due to things like this, remember, that dez didnt have some issues like him, to a degree and dez just like randy moss fell in the draft

now i do think that quinn will go somewhere around the 15th to 20th pick, to much talent to pass up, but not before the 12th pick or so in 1st round

I'll be pissed if we don't take Quinn at 9, if he's available.

[cowboyjoe]

Depends who you ask. I have Quinn as a top 5 player..guys like Dareus and Prince could fall to us.

i think dareus, prince, possibly peterson and quinn will be there at 9th pick, just a hunch

i think some teams will really focus on QB
--LOCKER Jake
U of Washington
6- 2.0...225...4.48 -------- 461.91
14 tD/15 Int in 07, RS-06, Running QB, with a Decent deep Arm- Tough, Winning Athlete- Drags his release -Accuracy ?? ,Mike Vick makes Jake Millions Signed with Angels MLB- Thumb 09/27/2008, Neck 07- 1 TD/0 INTs...180 y/3 TDs Rushing in 084
2 --MALLETT Ryan
Arkansas
6- 6.2...237...4.89 -------- 459.51
Michigan Transfer, What a Arm- Moves well in the pocket... Ryan + Flacco paved his way- Bone in foot broken 02/19/2010+ Healing 07/05/2010 ?? 30 TD/9 int in 09
3 --NEWTON Cameron
Auburn
6- 4.4...242...4.67 -------- 443.84
Needs to make a offense his, and has,, Power Runner, Passing a work in progress.. ,Dude can play Reciever,,, Good Tools. Wildcat QB, who can pass some... Suspend 11/22/2008 0 TD/0 INTs...10 y/1 TDs Rushing in 08
4 --GABBERT Blaine
MISSOURI
6- 4.2...236...4.73 -------- 440.98
Talented, Accurate Short,,, long release, decent runner,,


i think because some nfl teams have need at QB,
Bills, 49ers, vikings, redskins
possibly panthers, they will jump at QB

this will push players down to us

[Idgit]

Depends who you ask. I have Quinn as a top 5 player..guys like Dareus and Prince could fall to us.

Somebody good will. We've got the luxury of having more than one spot to fill. We'll get a top player at a position of need.

My guess is that, as of right now, Quinn will be there, and we might not take him anyway. Quinn does seem to be a 'riser,' though. He might well end up top-five before it's all said and done.

[Gaede]

Haven't watched a whole lot of Von Miller, but from what little I've seen, he's incredibly quick and just tries to run around the OT every single play.

So, one trick pony

[ninja]

von Miller didn't look like 248 pounds when I saw him play in the bowl game. He looked small. Played well but looked small for a LB.

[cowboyjoe]

von Miller didn't look like 248 pounds when I saw him play in the bowl game. He looked small. Played well but looked small for a LB.

i know, thats another reason why i would like quinn better than von. :)

[Cowboyslife]

Von Miller actually compares pretty well to Elvis Dummervil. Both are/were considered too-small, hybrid DE/OLBs.

[TheCount]

I like Miller, and I like him even more cause everyone says he's too small. :)

[joseephuss]

von Miller didn't look like 248 pounds when I saw him play in the bowl game. He looked small. Played well but looked small for a LB.

248 is small for a OLB. I think he is a legit 248 and I don't think he has room to grow. Miller would be a good addition for Dallas, but not at the #9 pick.

[Cowboyslife]

248 is small for a OLB. I think he is a legit 248 and I don't think he has room to grow. Miller would be a good addition for Dallas, but not at the #9 pick.

He's 6'3". He has a lot of room to pack on more pounds.

[jblaze2004]

Nope Quinn, bigger, faster, possibly another monster at Outside linebacker like Ware.

Miller is ok, but smaller alittle

QUINN Robert
North Carolina
6- 5.0...265...4.67 -------- 465.24
Tremendous Test Numbers -Heck of pass rusher -A low lethal power burst.. Brain Surgery as a prep.. 11 Sacks in 09,,

--MILLER Von

6- 3.0...248...4.62 -------- 475.76
Successful College pass rusher, Real Athlete, in a search and destroy position Run ??

Now, look at Ware's size, and remember Quinn missed this year due to suspension, could be a steal at 9th to 15th pick. Not sure if could play outside linebacker, but I think he can, could push the dog out of spencer too.

94 WARE Demarcus . 6- 4.0 259 4.62 867.93

so is von miller rated higher than quin.....Is demarcus ware rating really 867.93 when he came out:eek: ......who is the best players (top 20) in this draft going by the ratings and where did you find those ratings?

[joseephuss]

He's 6'3". He has a lot of room to pack on more pounds.

He has a small frame.

[TheCoolFan]

He's great...just an absolute playmaker. I don't know if he's big enough to play SOLB though. He could be a dominant rusher like Clay Matthews though, given the right scheme. If a DC moves him around and blitzes like Capers does with Matthews, he could be a force

[Chocolate Lab]

I have been saying what some of the others said, that he looks small to me. I've seen him listed at 243 to 248, and I would lean to the low end of that.

I love how he plays, but I just don't know if he'll be able to hold up against the run.

[TheFinisher]

The Aggies lined him up all over the place, he can play any of our linebacker positions, even inside. He's a very fluid athlete for his size and Rob Ryan would probably salivate over the different blitz packages he could use him in. Miller's a playmaker, I'd take him at 9 and wouldn't look back.

[BAT]

If Quinn is not there, then I like Miller too. But I like Paea just as much.

[dwmyers]

understand you buddy, von has potential to be a really good linebacker, but i think Quinn could be a monster at DE and in 3-4 outside like charles haley was that put fear in opposing offenses

And if ya'll remember, Charles Haley was a 4th round draft choice.

[dbair1967]

von Miller didn't look like 248 pounds when I saw him play in the bowl game. He looked small. Played well but looked small for a LB.

Looked closer to 228 than 248 in the two games I watched him play (Texas, LSU)

Looked alot more like a big safety than a 3-4 OLB to me

[texbumthelife]

Von Miller actually compares pretty well to Elvis Dummervil. Both are/were considered too-small, hybrid DE/OLBs.

Except their college positions and skill sets are completely different and Dummervil is a heavy set, stocky guy. Von Miller is built like an NBA power forward. Miller will get eatin' alive by NFL OT's.

With that said, some of the more creative, attacking defenses in the NFL (NYJ, NE, Batl, Pitt) could really wreak havoc with this kid. I can also see him being a smaller Derrick Brooks on the right team (TB, Indy). He would have to greatly improve his coverage skills though.

[UnoDallas]

I'll be pissed if we don't take Quinn at 9, if he's available.

I be pissed if we don't trade #9 away an get Sherrod

[TheCount]

Looked closer to 228 than 248 in the two games I watched him play (Texas, LSU)

Looked alot more like a big safety than a 3-4 OLB to me

lol, 6'3" is way too short for an NBA power forward. ;)

[BAT]

Except their college positions and skill sets are completely different and Dummervil is a heavy set, stocky guy. Von Miller is built like an NBA power forward. Miller will get eatin' alive by NFL OT's.

With that said, some of the more creative, attacking defenses in the NFL (NYJ, NE, Batl, Pitt) could really wreak havoc with this kid. I can also see him being a smaller Derrick Brooks on the right team (TB, Indy). He would have to greatly improve his coverage skills though.

Derrick Thomas was also said to be too small to hold up in the running game. Never became his strong suite, but Thomas was an absolute beast rushing the passer. Miller has that same tenacity and is supposed to run a 4.5 40 so both are similar in athleticism too.

[Cowboyslife]

Except their college positions and skill sets are completely different and Dummervil is a heavy set, stocky guy. Von Miller is built like an NBA power forward. Miller will get eatin' alive by NFL OT's.

With that said, some of the more creative, attacking defenses in the NFL (NYJ, NE, Batl, Pitt) could really wreak havoc with this kid. I can also see him being a smaller Derrick Brooks on the right team (TB, Indy). He would have to greatly improve his coverage skills though.

True, Dummervil only stands 5'11", but still, the fact remains, he too was thought to be undersized and a player without a position, and now he's playing ILB for the Broncos. Or at least was for the early portion of his career in Denver. He's kind of fallen out of my radar.

[TheCount]

True, Dummervil only stands 5'11", but still, the fact remains, he too was thought to be undersized and a player without a position, and now he's playing ILB for the Broncos. Or at least was for the early portion of his career in Denver. He's kind of fallen out of my radar.

He plays OLB for them and just signed a huge new deal. He got hurt way back in august and went on IR.

Dummervil is just yet another example of people ignoring production for fear of size, which kind of bolsters the pro-Miller argument, actually. Elvis was dynamite in college but dropped to the second day because he wasn't 6'5 270, and yet he has continued to play at a high level in the NFL. Oops.

Going just on college production, Miller has been more consistent and more productive than Quinn has and probably against better competition too. Of course if Quinn hadn't gotten himself suspended, he might have had a season for the ages... or maybe not.

[Cowboyslife]

He plays OLB for them and just signed a huge new deal. He got hurt way back in august and went on IR.

Dummervil is just yet another example of people ignoring production for fear of size, which kind of bolsters the pro-Miller argument, actually. Elvis was dynamite in college but dropped to the second day because he wasn't 6'5 270, and yet he has continued to play at a high level in the NFL. Oops.

Oh, because I know he started out with them at ILB. Guess he switched. I think Rob Ryan can do any number of things with Von. Bring him as an OLB to rush the passer. Blitz him from the ILB position, and even put him on the edge when he goes to 4 down linemen.

Kid has Dwight Freeney type of explosion off the snap. It's scary.

[TheCount]

Oh, because I know he started out with them at ILB. Guess he switched. I think Rob Ryan can do any number of things with Von. Bring him as an OLB to rush the passer. Blitz him from the ILB position, and even put him on the edge when he goes to 4 down linemen.

Kid has Dwight Freeney type of explosion off the snap. It's scary.

Yeah cause they were running the 4-3 before McDaniels showed up, I don't know if they have committed to keeping it.

[joseephuss]

He plays OLB for them and just signed a huge new deal. He got hurt way back in august and went on IR.

Dummervil is just yet another example of people ignoring production for fear of size, which kind of bolsters the pro-Miller argument, actually. Elvis was dynamite in college but dropped to the second day because he wasn't 6'5 270, and yet he has continued to play at a high level in the NFL. Oops.

Going just on college production, Miller has been more consistent and more productive than Quinn has and probably against better competition too. Of course if Quinn hadn't gotten himself suspended, he might have had a season for the ages... or maybe not.

I think you are giving Dumervil a little too much credit. He has played well, but I would not say he continues to play at a high level. Especially when he didn't play at all this season. Plus he was drafted in the 4th round. We are talking about the #9 overall pick. I think most people would be disappointed if the #9 overall pick wasn't producing at a higher level than Dumervil has done so far in his career.

[TheCount]

I think you are giving Dumervil a little too much credit. He has played well, but I would not say he continues to play at a high level. Especially when he didn't play at all this season. Plus he was drafted in the 4th round. We are talking about the #9 overall pick. I think most people would be disappointed if the #9 overall pick wasn't producing at a higher level than Dumervil has done so far in his career.

He didn't play because he was on IR, you make it sound like he was benched.

Dumervil has flourished in the 3-4, we'll see how he does going forward. I've got no stake in the guy and I didn't bring his name up.

You mean to tell me you wouldn't be satisfied with 43 sacks in 4 years from a #9 overall pick? I'm not sure what kind of production you're expecting out of whomever we draft then.

My whole point is people read into physical stats way too much.

[CanuckCowboysFan]

This dude has one of the fastest first steps I have ever seen ever. It's unbelievable.

Ryan would have lots of fun with him in this defense, thats for sure.

BTW, yeah, he's a one trick pony and lacks technique. I will say this. You can teach technique. Clay Mathews had horrid technique coming out of school and look at him now. One thing you can't teach is speed. This guy will roast NFL OT's.

[joseephuss]

He didn't play because he was on IR, you make it sound like he was benched.

Dumervil has flourished in the 3-4, we'll see how he does going forward. I've got no stake in the guy and I didn't bring his name up.

You mean to tell me you wouldn't be satisfied with 43 sacks in 4 years from a #9 overall pick? I'm not sure what kind of production you're expecting out of whomever we draft then.

My whole point is people read into physical stats way too much.

I want a guy to be an all around player at the #9 pick. Sacks are nice, but that is not all to the game. Dumervil averages less than 2 tackles per game for 106 total. He is not good against the run. He is a very one dimensional player. Look at Ware. He had 53.5 sacks and 225 tackles in 4 years. That is production and he was able to play in his 5th year and add to those totals. That is what I want in the #9 pick. Dumveril is fine for a guy not picked in the 1st round. So Dallas can find someone of that caliber later in the draft.

I know he was on IR. He needs to be on the field in order to earn the statement, "he continues to play at a high level". Maybe it was due to his physical stats that he was not able to stay healthy.

Perhaps people do read too much into physical stats, but you can't go the other direction and ignore them,either. I think Miller would be a nice addition to the Cowboys, but I don't like him at the #9 spot.

[TheCount]

I want a guy to be an all around player at the #9 pick. Sacks are nice, but that is not all to the game. Dumervil averages less than 2 tackles per game for 106 total. He is not good against the run. He is a very one dimensional player. Look at Ware. He had 53.5 sacks and 225 tackles in 4 years. That is production and he was able to play in his 5th year and add to those totals. That is what I want in the #9 pick. Dumveril is fine for a guy not picked in the 1st round. So Dallas can find someone of that caliber later in the draft.

I know he was on IR. He needs to be on the field in order to earn the statement, "he continues to play at a high level". Maybe it was due to his physical stats that he was not able to stay healthy.

Perhaps people do read too much into physical stats, but you can't go the other direction and ignore them,either. I think Miller would be a nice addition to the Cowboys, but I don't like him at the #9 spot.

For the final time, I'm not arguing Dumervil, I am arguing the folly of overlooking a player based solely on his height and weight.

Looking at Ware to determine who you're going to draft would be a mistake, how many Wares are there in the league? If that's the production you expect from a successful draft pick, you are being extremely unrealistic.

[Cowboyslife]

Joseephus, we need pass rush help in a big way and have a chance to add potentially one of the best in the business. I only compared Miller to Dummervill because of the weight and pro position issues. Miller is a much more explosive player than Dummervill is, and which is why he's still rated in the top 10 even with his issues.

And about getting pass rushers later in the draft. Just like we did with Victor Butler and Brandon Williams? They'd each have to average 20 sacks a year to get 43.5 sacks in a 4 year span.

[UnoDallas]

Von Miller, OLB, Texas A&M - Scouting Report (http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2011vmiller.php)
Height: 6-2. Weight: 240

he looks like the old RW's

just faster - he looks like a Safety

[joseephuss]

Joseephus, we need pass rush help in a big way and have a chance to add potentially one of the best in the business. I only compared Miller to Dummervill because of the weight and pro position issues. Miller is a much more explosive player than Dummervill is, and which is why he's still rated in the top 10 even with his issues.

And about getting pass rushers later in the draft. Just like we did with Victor Butler and Brandon Williams? They'd each have to average 20 sacks a year to get 43.5 sacks in a 4 year span.

No, Dallas needs better defensive players. A pass rush is only part of that.

[dwmyers]

Joseephus, we need pass rush help in a big way and have a chance to add potentially one of the best in the business. I only compared Miller to Dummervill because of the weight and pro position issues. Miller is a much more explosive player than Dummervill is, and which is why he's still rated in the top 10 even with his issues.

And about getting pass rushers later in the draft. Just like we did with Victor Butler and Brandon Williams? They'd each have to average 20 sacks a year to get 43.5 sacks in a 4 year span.

One of the sad facts of life is that even first round draft choices have a 50% bust rate. Later rounds, even higher. But when a Charley Haley or James Harrison pans out, the payoff is that much greater.

I always thought the value of the 3-4 was getting very good players out of undervalued tweeners, LB/DE hybrids. If you're going to make tweeners your focus, doesn't that miss the boat?

Eh, Stephen Jones is right. Pick BPA at #9 .. even if its a tweener.

[jblaze2004]

dummervil is 260lbs but i think von miller will do okay in the nfl. He has insane speed and the production is there folks..lol

[TheCount]

dummervil is 260lbs but i think von miller will do okay in the nfl. He has insane speed and the production is there folks..lol

You heard that where?

[Cowboyslife]

No, Dallas needs better defensive players. A pass rush is only part of that.

We need a pass rush. Big time.