gbnreport:2011 senior bowl practice reports South

[cowboyjoe]

Best offensive lineman on the South team has been former Canadian hockey player Danny Watkins who has dominated while working at both OG positions this week. As a LT at Baylor, Watkins is a solid pass blocker who gets good arm extension and active feet, but he‘s also brings an attitude to his run blocking inside. Watkins can also pull and make a block in space, but needs to work on taking better angles off the snap.
http://www.gbnreport.com/seniorbowlreport.htm
South coach Chan Gailey also mentioned at his post practice preser that OTs Demarcus Love of Arkansas and Mississippi State’s Derek Sherrod are both talented, but still works in progress. And one could see that at practice. Love played too high at times and struggled to maintain his balance, although he battled and usually maintained arm contact throughout the play. Same for Sherrod, a wide body who can really lock on, but had some trouble staying with spin moves by smaller, quicker edge rushers.

Both of DEs Sam Acho of Texas and Brooks Reed of Arizona worked with OLBs during drills where both looked athletic enough working in space. Acho was the more consistent, while Reed ran around Alabama OT James Carpenter for a near sack in the 11-on-11 scrimmage. Acho then went to report at the post-practice presser that he was indeed prepared to stand up in the NFL at his size.

[realtick]

I really like what I've seen out of Watkins. It doesn't bother me at all that he's 26, as he'll likely be an early contributor to any team that drafts him. If you told me I could get seven or eight productive seasons out of him, I'd take it every time.

[BrAinPaiNt]

I really like what I've seen out of Watkins. It doesn't bother me at all that he's 26, as he'll likely be an early contributor to any team that drafts him. If you told me I could get seven or eight productive seasons out of him, I'd take it every time.

Yeah...that seems to be the only knock on him so far in the senior bowl.

Other than that he has been very impressive.

If they have the impression that he will be a day one starter...I would have no problem drafting him.

If they think he needs to work at being a starter...probably pass due to the age.

I think the age thing can help him in some ways. I think he has more maturity that normally comes with age so some of the things that occupy younger players minds might not be there for him. I also think it probably means he is the type of person who wants to prove that age is not an issue with him.

Again, if they think he is a day one starter...go for it. If not, pass.

[realtick]

Yeah...that seems to be the only knock on him so far in the senior bowl.

Other than that he has been very impressive.

If they have the impression that he will be a day one starter...I would have no problem drafting him.

If they think he needs to work at being a starter...probably pass due to the age.

I think the age thing can help him in some ways. I think he has more maturity that normally comes with age so some of the things that occupy younger players minds might not be there for him. I also think it probably means he is the type of person who wants to prove that age is not an issue with him.

Again, if they think he is a day one starter...go for it. If not, pass.

Right on point.

[Chocolate Lab]

I really like what I've seen out of Watkins. It doesn't bother me at all that he's 26, as he'll likely be an early contributor to any team that drafts him. If you told me I could get seven or eight productive seasons out of him, I'd take it every time.

Same here. The "overaged" argument is lame IMO, except *maybe* at the very top of the draft.

But how often in this day and age do you draft a guy expecting to keep him 10 years anyway? Hardly ever. If the guy is good enough to give a second deal to, he'll likely be cheaper because of his age anyway.

[jterrell]

I really like what I've seen out of Watkins. It doesn't bother me at all that he's 26, as he'll likely be an early contributor to any team that drafts him. If you told me I could get seven or eight productive seasons out of him, I'd take it every time.

then it is good you are not drafting for us.

watkins is impressive but 26 is 26. he has next to zero upside. 26 is old even by OL standards. he'll be drafted but not round 1 for certain and probably not even round 2.

see chris weinke.

[jterrell]

Same here. The "overaged" argument is lame IMO, except *maybe* at the very top of the draft.

But how often in this day and age do you draft a guy expecting to keep him 10 years anyway? Hardly ever. If the guy is good enough to give a second deal to, he'll likely be cheaper because of his age anyway.

could not disagree more.

age is a huge factor.

compare say jason witten versus terence newman.

1 guy came to us young and developed rapidly into a force and made the all pro team still THIS year.
the other came to us and was solid right off but has been declining already.

you absolutely do not draft guys in the first 3 rounds planning on not resigning them after a rookie deal.

why waste a draft pick when you could sign a known free agent to the same length deal? If you only need a guy for 4 years you are better off covering the spot with a proven, known commodity.

[CanuckCowboysFan]

then it is good you are not drafting for us.

watkins is impressive but 26 is 26. he has next to zero upside. 26 is old even by OL standards. he'll be drafted but not round 1 for certain and probably not even round 2.

see chris weinke.

I feel that way to.

He's basically Logan Mankins age.

[UnoDallas]

Watkins 26 can start day one

will be drafted in third round

Travis Bright fixing to be 29

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2011/01/mobile-diary-part-ii-wes-bunting.html#

Let's go to another guy you talked up who is impressing you here, that's Danny Watkins from Baylor...

WB: Yep, bring him up, bring him up!

CN: Okay, talk about him in general, but I'd also like you to compare him to a bigger school guy who has had a lot of air time on TV, John Moffitt from Wisconsin. How do those two compare?

WB: They're not the same caliber athlete. Danny Watkins is a better athlete. He anchors just as well as Moffitt, but Watkins has much better range. Moffitt is a little better through contact but Danny Watkins can just flat out, stone cold stonewall you because once he gets his hands on you and you try to slip him, he can mirror with you. His hand placement has been poor at times this week, but he's playing guard for the first time and that's to be expected.

Moffitt has a little more polish than Watkins but nowhere near the upside. I still think Watkins can come in as a guard and play for you on day one. You can get him in the 3rd-4th round and I've said it before, if he was three years younger, I think he goes in the 2nd round. He's had a really impressive week among the guys looking to play interior line.

[Idgit]

could not disagree more.

age is a huge factor.

compare say jason witten versus terence newman.

1 guy came to us young and developed rapidly into a force and made the all pro team still THIS year.
the other came to us and was solid right off but has been declining already.

you absolutely do not draft guys in the first 3 rounds planning on not resigning them after a rookie deal.

why waste a draft pick when you could sign a known free agent to the same length deal? If you only need a guy for 4 years you are better off covering the spot with a proven, known commodity.

Apart from disagreeing with your assessment of Newman's play, the differences between Neman and Witten have to do with a lot more than just 'age.' One's a legitimate HoF TE who we got at a very young age. The other is a borderline probowler. I think everyone would agree that we should draft underaged HoF players wherever we can find them.

But when it comes to regular player evaluation, if you can get a guy outside the early picks of the first round who you think could be a 7-8 year starter, you don't pass on him just because you're looking for a 9-10 year starter at the same slot. All things being equal, his age matters. But there are a lot more important questions like 'can the guy play?' that matter a lot more.

[realtick]

then it is good you are not drafting for us.

watkins is impressive but 26 is 26. he has next to zero upside. 26 is old even by OL standards. he'll be drafted but not round 1 for certain and probably not even round 2.

see chris weinke.

"26 is old even by OL standards..."

Lol, I've read about three of your posts and each one has been pure comedy relief.

And who was even claiming Watkins was going round 1 or 2?

"see chris weinke."

How about you "see" your posts before you read them, do some research, dwell on it and write something worthwhile and informed.

Watkins has no "upside?" Explain to me in detail how he has no upside?

[ykc]

Yeah...that seems to be the only knock on him so far in the senior bowl.

Other than that he has been very impressive.

If they have the impression that he will be a day one starter...I would have no problem drafting him.

If they think he needs to work at being a starter...probably pass due to the age.

I think the age thing can help him in some ways. I think he has more maturity that normally comes with age so some of the things that occupy younger players minds might not be there for him. I also think it probably means he is the type of person who wants to prove that age is not an issue with him.

Again, if they think he is a day one starter...go for it. If not, pass.

Also, the important thing to consider is whether at age 26, is he physcially more mature than 19-20 year old kids, is he using that advantage and dominating at the college level? In NFL, he won't have that edge

[CATCH17]

If I could get 5 solid years from a guy i'd take him in the 4th round.

[btcutter]

26 a problem???

He hasn't even been put into a NFL training program yet. He'll definitely get stronger.
Nothing wrong with him being more mature. Less off field issues.
Day 1 starter! give me that every time if I can get him in 3rd or 4th round. You draft some guy based on potential and often you get JAG.

OG play into their 30's anyway so if I get a 3rd or 4th rounder starting for 7-8 yrs that's a HIT in my opinion.

We are talking about 3rd or 4th round not top 10 pick. That's a HUGE difference.

[burmafrd]

O line can play longer before they start to go downhill than many positions. So 26 is not too bad. Now if they believe he can be ready to start in one year that is not too bad at all.

[realtick]

26 a problem???

He hasn't even been put into a NFL training program yet. He'll definitely get stronger.
Nothing wrong with him being more mature. Less off field issues.
Day 1 starter! give me that every time if I can get him in 3rd or 4th round. You draft some guy based on potential and often you get JAG.

OG play into their 30's anyway so if I get a 3rd or 4th rounder starting for 7-8 yrs that's a HIT in my opinion.

We are talking about 3rd or 4th round not top 10 pick. That's a HUGE difference.

Meh, but he doesn't have "upside." :rolleyes:

[jterrell]

Apart from disagreeing with your assessment of Newman's play, the differences between Neman and Witten have to do with a lot more than just 'age.' One's a legitimate HoF TE who we got at a very young age. The other is a borderline probowler. I think everyone would agree that we should draft underaged HoF players wherever we can find them.

But when it comes to regular player evaluation, if you can get a guy outside the early picks of the first round who you think could be a 7-8 year starter, you don't pass on him just because you're looking for a 9-10 year starter at the same slot. All things being equal, his age matters. But there are a lot more important questions like 'can the guy play?' that matter a lot more.

He is 26, not 22. That isn't a year or so difference. Most kids graduate high school at 17 or 18. He's 8 years beyond that.

Physical maturity is a real concern. A guy that is 26 should be dominating guys who are 22. That is a lot more years in a weight room. A 20 year old playing high school football would certainly be expected to dominate.

Witten was a hall of famer when we drafted him. But he was a good athlete with immense upside based largely on the fact he had room to mature physically. His age was a big boon that most noted.

Age is not the biggest factor but it does matter and ignoring it goes beyond foolhardy.

The posts about Watkins stated he had lost a round 2 based on age and that is certainly fair. I am not suggesting he isn't draftable but I would move other guards ahead of hm at 40 if they were 4 or more years younger.

[jterrell]

26 a problem???

He hasn't even been put into a NFL training program yet. He'll definitely get stronger.
Nothing wrong with him being more mature. Less off field issues.
Day 1 starter! give me that every time if I can get him in 3rd or 4th round. You draft some guy based on potential and often you get JAG.

OG play into their 30's anyway so if I get a 3rd or 4th rounder starting for 7-8 yrs that's a HIT in my opinion.

We are talking about 3rd or 4th round not top 10 pick. That's a HUGE difference.

What Baylor doesn't have a weight room now? Did someone tell Jason Smith that before he went top 5? Do they tell the recruits?

You ever been in a major collegiate weight room?

Arguing this guy is like Herschel Walker showing up at Georgie never having touched a weight is just silly.

At 26 you do not have the room for growth you do at 22 or even 24. The older you are the more limited you will be in basically all areas. At 22 you get in shape in 2 days, by 30 it's two weeks.

I'd be fine with him in r3 or later myself. The argument is over if you ignore age and even those saying they do apparently are not if they rate him r3 or lower.

[Chocolate Lab]

why waste a draft pick when you could sign a known free agent to the same length deal? If you only need a guy for 4 years you are better off covering the spot with a proven, known commodity.
Huh? Free agent? How is the comparable? The beauty of draft picks is that you can get players far cheaper than in FA.

It's not like draftees are signed for life. If they were, I'd see the point a lot more. But a third rounder is only going to have, what, a four-year deal anyway? So he'll be a free agent at that point and all those remaining years don't matter, unless you re-sign him.

Now if this were a first rounder with a seven year contract and you thought a guy would be rapidly declining by 33, I'd see the point a lot more.

Finally, I'd argue that Witten is a lot "older" than his chronological age would indicate. In a lot of cases it's not the years, it's the mileage.

[realtick]

Physical maturity is a real concern. A guy that is 26 should be dominating guys who are 22. That is a lot more years in a weight room. A 20 year old playing high school football would certainly be expected to dominate.



And who said he isn't dominating? If you've been watching the practices he's been stonewalling guys at POA.

You're simply stuck on his age and working out a story from there. He hasn't been playing football his entire life and so he's still got a lot of untapped potential to go along with his already strong foundation.

[realtick]

At 26 you do not have the room for growth you do at 22 or even 24. The older you are the more limited you will be in basically all areas. At 22 you get in shape in 2 days, by 30 it's two weeks.



You're completely full of it.

[TheCoolFan]

Watkins will be fine. If you're a good offensive guard, you can play well into your 30s. This is the same team that brought in starters like Kosier, Davis, and Colombo when they were 27/28/29 so I don't think age will factor into the Cowboys decision to draft Watkins if they're interested. Shoot, look at Doug Free, our best lineman, who finally got his chance to start at 26.

For a skill position player, sure, being 26 would be a negative but not for an OLineman

[jterrell]

Huh? Free agent? How is the comparable? The beauty of draft picks is that you can get players far cheaper than in FA.

It's not like draftees are signed for life. If they were, I'd see the point a lot more. But a third rounder is only going to have, what, a four-year deal anyway? So he'll be a free agent at that point and all those remaining years don't matter, unless you re-sign him.

Now if this were a first rounder with a seven year contract and you thought a guy would be rapidly declining by 33, I'd see the point a lot more.

Finally, I'd argue that Witten is a lot "older" than his chronological age would indicate. In a lot of cases it's not the years, it's the mileage.

Not at draft time was Witten older....

When we drafted him he was still 20 years old!!!!
He had plenty of room for athletic growth and muscle development. It isn't a shock he got bigger and stronger.

Witten made All Pro as an 8th year player.

TNew was 24 and showed up at 25., He was rated the top overall athlete in the entire draft. Problem is he never got faster and he may have gained some strength but it wasn't a huge gain.

I played Middle School football with a guy who averaged 200 yards rushing per game. No kidding. Found out he was 3 years older than everyone else when in 9th grade he was forced to play Varsity and was a scrub. He never developed into any type of high school football player. Two other players off that team made the pros but he never even made a small college team.

[realtick]

TNew was 24 and showed up at 25., He was rated the top overall athlete in the entire draft. Problem is he never got faster and he may have gained some strength but it wasn't a huge gain.

Pure comedy...

I don't know about you guys, but I sure rue the fact T-New never "got faster" after we drafted him.

[Chocolate Lab]

Not at draft time was Witten older....

When we drafted him he was still 20 years old!!!!
He had plenty of room for athletic growth and muscle development. It isn't a shock he got bigger and stronger.

Witten made All Pro as an 8th year player.

TNew was 24 and showed up at 25., He was rated the top overall athlete in the entire draft. Problem is he never got faster and he may have gained some strength but it wasn't a huge gain.

I played Middle School football with a guy who averaged 200 yards rushing per game. No kidding. Found out he was 3 years older than everyone else when in 9th grade he was forced to play Varsity and was a scrub. He never developed into any type of high school football player. Two other players off that team made the pros but he never even made a small college team.

I guess my point is that Witten is only, what, 28, but he plays like he's 33 or older. Years, not mileage.

And I don't know how to address Newman... Isn't it kind of arbitrary to pick those two guys? Charles Woodson is a few years older and still going strong, so maybe it's about his build more than anything. And what about Martellus Bennett?... He might have been better off if he had been 24 and not 20.

Eh, again I just don't see how this is that big a deal for a 3rd round or lower lineman. I'd think in the third, you'd be happy to get a good starter (or just solid contributor) for a few years no matter what... Then cross that re-signing bridge once you get to it.

[btcutter]

What Baylor doesn't have a weight room now? Did someone tell Jason Smith that before he went top 5? Do they tell the recruits?

You ever been in a major collegiate weight room?

Arguing this guy is like Herschel Walker showing up at Georgie never having touched a weight is just silly.

At 26 you do not have the room for growth you do at 22 or even 24. The older you are the more limited you will be in basically all areas. At 22 you get in shape in 2 days, by 30 it's two weeks.

I'd be fine with him in r3 or later myself. The argument is over if you ignore age and even those saying they do apparently are not if they rate him r3 or lower.

College weight program and student athlete are still not the same as full time weight training at the professional level year round. It just isn't. If you can't agree on that then there's no point discussing this.

Maybe at 26 you won't grow as much as when you are 22. So.....give me a player at age 26 then some guys who has "potential". NFL is full of guys with "potential" that becomes JAG. I want players.

Also, it's mileage not age that is the major issue. He hasn't had bad wear and tear and his position doesn't demand speed like WR/CB which often deteriorates faster as you age.

3rd or 4th rounders...easy choice.

[btcutter]

again I just don't see how this is that big a deal for a 3rd round or lower lineman. I'd think in the third, you'd be happy to get a good starter (or just solid contributor) for a few years no matter what... Then cross that re-signing bridge once you get to it.

That!!!!! Or you rather have Stephen Peterman

[TheCoolFan]

To get back on topic:

No such problems for Baylor DT Phil Taylor who was monster again at collapsing the offensive line with his size and almost shocking - at least for a near 340-pounder - quickness and athleticism. Coach Gailey said he is fascinated by Taylor and can't wait to see him in game action.

Baylor DT Phil Taylor continues to impress; he’s an immovable object at almost 340 pounds. They even triple teamed him in scrimmage on passing plays, but he was still throwing people around including undersized Florida State OG Rodney Hudson. Taylor shows surprising agility for his size and certainly isn‘t this year's Mount Cody; Taylor looks like he’ll be a full time player for some 4-3 scheme.

The beast!

Some other sleeper prospects I like for the DLine, although Ballard's stock is rising to maybe late 1st, early 2nd potential:


Iowa DT Christian Ballard looks like he can be special, although he may be better suited to play DE at the next level; he has the quickness plus he lacks bulk and strength inside where he gets swallowed up.

Another surprise was Southern Arkansas DT Cedric Thornton who was almost unblockable. He ate up Auburn OT Lee Ziemba who had moved inside to OG. Thornton looked quick and agile with great balance and speed in drill work.

[RCowboyFan]

I feel that way to.

He's basically Logan Mankins age.

No, Mankins is 29 or going to be 29 this year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7208