Who is to blame for our poor drafting of offensive line or is it strategy thinking?

[cowboyjoe]

Ok we have drafted these linemen say since 2008 with Flozell Adams

98 2nd round Flozell Adams
# 5 Oliver Ross

99 # 2 Solomon Page

2001 # 5 Matt Lehr
2002 # 2 Andre Gurode
2003 # 2 Al Johnson
2004 # 2 Jacob Rogers
# Stephen Peterman
2007 # 3 James Marten
# 4 Doug Free
2009 # 3 Robert Brewster
2010 Sam Young (hasnt seen enough of him to make judgement)

Note: I posted ones that made the team, also keep in mind Jerry Jones didnt want to pay Flozell Adams extra money to be ROT or was his decision to let him walk without a goodbackup at backup OT in case something happened to Doug Free or Columbo.

So, whose fault is the poor drafting of offensive linemen? Houck for not being able to coach them up or Jerry Jones or coaches choices for picking the offensive linemen or is it the scouts that do the scouting and their reports on these offensive linemen.

also keep in mind, we know why jacob rogers didnt pan out, because the scouts stood up on the table during draft and warned parcells not to take Rogers because he was injury prone. So, basically in 12 years, we have drafted 12 offensive linemen from 2nd round to 5th round, with only 3 offensive linemen making the team. Thats poor drafting or whoever is in charge of scouting and drafting those players.

So, who should be made accountable zoners, so it doesnt happen again?

[cobra]

joe: I think it is lack of bluechip investment.

Olineman drafting is really hit or miss. There are hundreds of offensive lineman taken every draft. The vast majority end up stinking.

Taking proven, established blue chip o-line players early in the draft decreases the likelihood you are going to miss, but it does not eliminate it. There are plenty of busts out there.

Your list is 3 out of 12 on picking starters or about a 25% success rate. Drafting o-line earlier may bump up that rate to 50% or more. But we just haven't made the investment.

[TheCount]

It's gotta be terrible scouting at this point.

We've all seen some of the values we have placed on linemen in recent years, we'll put a 4th round grade on a guy that ends up going in the late 2nd round.

But then we draft guys like Marten and Brewster with 3rd round picks. Guys that for all intents and purposes should have gone later.

Who ever is/was putting our board together or making the final call is just throughly clueless when it comes to linemen.

[cowboyjoe]

good input cobra and thecount,

i think its a 3 step contribution
1. Scouts that do the offensive line evaluation
2. Jerry Jones/Parcells not listening to scouts or coaches
3. Not drafting the offensive linemen high enough

some scouts may for instance be good at evaluating cbs, rbs, wrs, dl etc, but stink at offensive linemen, but this needs to be looked into

I have read sometimes where media writers read some stuff we post, so maybe they can write up an article about it, and thats gets back to the cowboys, so they say, hey wait a minute, now we can put a finger on why we have been missing on offensive linemen

I am not trying to blame anyone person, i think its a combination of things, but whatever it is, get it fixed, dont keep having horse blinders on

[natesboys051]

Jerry's philosophical viewpoint is to SELL tickets and make money from Jersey sales of STAR players. Therefore, his FOCUS is on 'flashy' players that can make him MONEY!!! O-Lineman are GRUNTS with little or no SEX APPEAL. Jerry would DRAFT a pass rushing guy DE or OLB to get SACKS (and to sell the guy's Jersey) than invest in a top tier OL. DEZ's highlight reels receptions definitely SELLS tickets and jerseys for Jerry....need I say more?

[burmafrd]

Clearly our scouting has been off. We have guys sometimes rated 2 rds lower than just about everyone else. ANd if you notice during Parcells first 3 years we were spending a 2nd or 3rd every year on an O line guy. Once he left we have not used a 2nd since and only one 3rd that looks like a bust (Brewster). You show me any other team in the NFL who has NOT used a first or second rd pick for O line in the last 5 drafts.

[jimnabby]

The draft is much more of a crapshoot than people realize. The way to get good OL in the draft is to pick lots of OL in the draft. High, low and in between. The Cowboys have picked fewer OL in the draft than any other team in recent years. If you do that, you have to get really lucky for it to pan out. We didn't, and it hasn't.

I'm not sure why it's gone that way, but here are a couple thoughts:

1. Maybe it was a deliberate decision to upgrade the OL in free agency - Bigg, Kosier, Colombo. But we haven't done that in a while.

2. Maybe it's because OL tend to move up on draft day, and we've been sticking to our board. At some point, you have to adjust and be willing to "reach" a little.

3. Maybe we're just dumb, and really thought we could get through a few more years with four 32+-year-old linemen.

[AmarilloCowboyFan]

good input cobra and thecount,

i think its a 3 step contribution
1. Scouts that do the offensive line evaluation
2. Jerry Jones/Parcells not listening to scouts or coaches
3. Not drafting the offensive linemen high enough

some scouts may for instance be good at evaluating cbs, rbs, wrs, dl etc, but stink at offensive linemen, but this needs to be looked into

I have read sometimes where media writers read some stuff we post, so maybe they can write up an article about it, and thats gets back to the cowboys, so they say, hey wait a minute, now we can put a finger on why we have been missing on offensive linemen

I am not trying to blame anyone person, i think its a combination of things, but whatever it is, get it fixed, dont keep having horse blinders on
edit after reread

[Doomsday101]

These picks are made as an organization with coaches, scouts and yes Jerry. At the end of the day he is GM, he has to take the blunt of it but others had a say in it as well. BP got credit for the good picks when he was here does he then take blame for the poor OL choices?

[Patton]

Poor scouting, mainly. Whoever thought Robert Brewster could play tackle in the NFL is no better a scout than some people posting on this board.

And as stated earlier, we've seen first hand how the front office misappropriates value in regards to linemen on a pretty consistent basis. I have a feeling this goes right back to the scouting.

[burmafrd]

no one is saying he did not. BUT he has been gone for 4 years now; cannot blame him any longer for our O line problems and refusal to used high picks on them. No other team has used fewer high picks on Oline then the boys over the last 5 drafts.

[Sam I Am]

It was Jerry Jones. Insisting that OL talent could be found late in the draft.

I know Jerry was getting quite a large ego from finding late round or undrafted talent. Of course we saw what happen with the 2009 draft when he decided to keep trading back and accumulating more picks knowing he could land lots of late round talent. FAIL!

[Doomsday101]

It was Jerry Jones. Insisting that OL talent could be found late in the draft.

I know Jerry was getting quite a large ego from finding late round or undrafted talent. Of course we saw what happen with the 2009 draft when he decided to keep trading back and accumulating more picks knowing he could land lots of late round talent. FAIL!

When did 2nd and 3rd rd picks become late rd picks?

[bbailey423]

here is a SCARY thought...I believe we had a first round grade on Alex Barron

[Sam I Am]

When did 2nd and 3rd rd picks become late rd picks?

Where are you getting 2nd round pick? As for 3rd, that is day 2 in the draft. For me, that is a late round pick. If you want a player that can start as a rookie, he almost have to come day 1 of the draft.

The last offensive lineman that was drafted before the 3rd round was Jacob Rogers in 2004. That is seven drafts ago.

[Doomsday101]

here is a SCARY thought...I believe we had a first round grade on Alex Barron

So did other teams which is why he was selected with the 19th overall pick.

[TheCount]

Clearly our scouting has been off. We have guys sometimes rated 2 rds lower than just about everyone else. ANd if you notice during Parcells first 3 years we were spending a 2nd or 3rd every year on an O line guy. Once he left we have not used a 2nd since and only one 3rd that looks like a bust (Brewster). You show me any other team in the NFL who has NOT used a first or second rd pick for O line in the last 5 drafts.

You forgot the third we spent on James Marten.

[Idgit]

Anybody care to guess that the number of probowls/pick and the number of years on an nfl roster/pick are on that list? Compared to the average length of an NFL career, it's probably not that bad a list.

[TheFinisher]

Jerry's philosophy has always been to get his OLineman through Free Agency, that's why we don't spend many high picks on Lineman in the draft. He figures it's better to spend his money for lineman on proven veterans, and for the most part it has worked. That's why I think we'll get 2 solid Lineman in FA this year, it's what Jerry has always done.

[sonnyboy]

Jerry's philosophy has always been to get his OLineman through Free Agency, that's why we don't spend many high picks on Lineman in the draft. He figures it's better to spend his money for lineman on proven veterans, and for the most part it has worked. That's why I think we'll get 2 solid Lineman in FA this year, it's what Jerry has always done.


And with good reason.......college offensive lineman are perhaps the hardest position to grade. That's why you see more OL 1st rd busts and more later round finds than most any position.

I'm no expert here and I've certainly done no study backing up this claim. It's my own perception formed over follow many teams drafts over many years and what I've read.

One thing I read that's stuck with me over the years in relation to offensive lineman succeeding/failing in the NFL.
And that's that success for OL in the NFL has more to do with consistent effort than any other position. Will/desire and discipline to make that constant total effort is critical and measuring that in college lineman is difficult.

So with that said, I can understand why the Cowboys have chosen to spend dollars on know FA OL, and not premium picks on college OL.

[birminghambuckeyes]

Drafting offensive linemen has been a problem for Dallas since the early to mid-80s. Think of all of the good offensive linemen the Cowboys have drafted since the mid-80s. Nate and Tuinei were free agents (Landry), I believe Gogan was drafted by Landry, Mark Stepnoski and Erik Williams (both Jimmy), Larry Allen, Flozell Adams, Andre Gurode and Doug Free (Jerry - 4 good offensive linemen in 20 years!). I can't think of anyone else Dallas drafted that was an above average or better starter for Dallas. There have been a few guys who did not work out in Dallas that have played elsewhere, but they were not special.

[TheFinisher]

And with good reason.......college offensive lineman are perhaps the hardest position to grade. That's why you see more OL 1st rd busts and more later round finds than most any position.

I'm no expert here and I've certainly done no study backing up this claim. It's my own perception formed over follow many teams drafts over many years and what I've read.

One thing I read that's stuck with me over the years in relation to offensive lineman succeeding/failing in the NFL.
And that's that success for OL in the NFL has more to do with consistent effort than any other position. Will/desire and discipline to make that constant total effort is critical and measuring that in college lineman is difficult.

So with that said, I can understand why the Cowboys have chosen to spend dollars on know FA OL, and not premium picks on college OL.

:hammer:

[jnday]

Jerry's philosophy has always been to get his OLineman through Free Agency, that's why we don't spend many high picks on Lineman in the draft. He figures it's better to spend his money for lineman on proven veterans, and for the most part it has worked. That's why I think we'll get 2 solid Lineman in FA this year, it's what Jerry has always done.

I agree that this has been Jerry`s way of fiving the OL , but it has not worked out that great IMO. Going to FA is a quick way to overspend on average OL. Seems like the OL has been made up of cast-off reclamation projects with average production. With that being said, Jerry will go another year without drafting a decent OL. It wouldn`t surprise me to see a few more Alex Barron type of players picked up to plug-in.

[bbailey423]

So did other teams which is why he was selected with the 19th overall pick.
well 18 teams passed on him...and I don't think you can call the Rams body of work this decade anything to get excited about.

My point is...whomever is doing the scouting of OL...we stink. Heck, we could have done MUCH better in free agency that Alex Barron...that is how BAD we are at scouting OL. He is shaped like a woman...has the mean streak of a kitty kat...and literally gave a game away...and maybe a season. One can only wonder what our season would have been like had we not lost that first game.

[burmafrd]

And with good reason.......college offensive lineman are perhaps the hardest position to grade. That's why you see more OL 1st rd busts and more later round finds than most any position.

I'm no expert here and I've certainly done no study backing up this claim. It's my own perception formed over follow many teams drafts over many years and what I've read.

One thing I read that's stuck with me over the years in relation to offensive lineman succeeding/failing in the NFL.
And that's that success for OL in the NFL has more to do with consistent effort than any other position. Will/desire and discipline to make that constant total effort is critical and measuring that in college lineman is difficult.

So with that said, I can understand why the Cowboys have chosen to spend dollars on know FA OL, and not premium picks on college OL.



31 other teams used more and higher draft choices than the Boys have over the last 5 years on the O line. Given its performance, how in the world can you claim that Jerruh's way is even as good let alone better?

[Doomsday101]

well 18 teams passed on him...and I don't think you can call the Rams body of work this decade anything to get excited about.

My point is...whomever is doing the scouting of OL...we stink. Heck, we could have done MUCH better in free agency that Alex Barron...that is how BAD we are at scouting OL. He is shaped like a woman...has the mean streak of a kitty kat...and literally gave a game away...and maybe a season. One can only wonder what our season would have been like had we not lost that first game.

By most accounts Barron was projected as a top-15 pick, heck people are talking up Peterson as a top 5 well that does not tell you how they will pan out he may very well live up to the draft slot he is taken in he may not.

[ThreeandOut]

Jerry's philosophy has always been to get his OLineman through Free Agency, that's why we don't spend many high picks on Lineman in the draft. He figures it's better to spend his money for lineman on proven veterans, and for the most part it has worked. That's why I think we'll get 2 solid Lineman in FA this year, it's what Jerry has always done.

I think it is the other way around...Dallas has had to resort to free agency because the draft picks haven't panned out. Jerry has said as much in recent years. He had to spend an exhorbitant amount to get Davis because the two lineman drafted in 2004 (Rogers and Peterman) didn't work out. I think his preference would be to have more home grown lineman because they are relatively cheap, but they just haven't been successful doing this.

[sonnyboy]

31 other teams used more and higher draft choices than the Boys have over the last 5 years on the O line. Given its performance, how in the world can you claim that Jerruh's way is even as good let alone better?

Do you know this as fact. I don't. 31 teams is a little surprising. I would've guessed 20-25 at least.

Either way, a sound plan that doesn't work isn't definitive evidence the plan it's self sucks.

We just needed to make better signing and draft picks.

One consistent incorrect theme or thought hounded on time and again on this site is that Jerry neglects the OL. That he's only concerned with glamor positions and that's just not true.

If you look at the picks and the FA signings, I'd guess we've invested as much in the OL and most teams.