I Hate To Say It, But This Is The Start Of A Packers Dynasty

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

I mean look at how they won the superbowl. No Jermichael Finley who is an elite tight end, Grant a big time runningback, no Woodson for most of the game and with all those injuries they suffered they still won the championship. They have so many great young players. Aaron Rodgers, B.J. Raji, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley, Tramon Williams, and of course Clay Matthews. Green Bay has a huge championship window. I expect them to win at least 3 more championships in the Rodgers era. The Cowboys are gonna find it very tough to end the superbowl drought which right now is at 16 years with the Packers around. Whenever the Packers don't win Dallas better capitalize.

[Dash28]

Cool story.

[xout]

Dynasty's are damn near impossible but they should continue to dominate in the NFC North so that at least keeps their window open in the post season.

[Muhast]

I'll just put it this way...

In the last 10 years we have seen 8-9 different teams in the SB representing the NFC.

No dynasty.

[yimyammer]

While I wish I could disagree, the evidence leads me to concur

[kristie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ECSigWi3s

[ThreeSportStar80]

Not so fast there... I think Dallas and few other teams will have something to say about that.

[SacredStar]

That's what they said about the Saints too.

[numnuts23]

Salary Cap says hello...

[trickblue]

I mean look at how they won the superbowl. No Jermichael Finley who is an elite tight end, Grant a big time runningback, no Woodson for most of the game and with all those injuries they suffered they still won the championship. They have so many great young players. Aaron Rodgers, B.J. Raji, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley, Tramon Williams, and of course Clay Matthews. Green Bay has a huge championship window. I expect them to win at least 3 more championships in the Rodgers era. The Cowboys are gonna find it very tough to end the superbowl drought which right now is at 16 years with the Packers around. Whenever the Packers don't win Dallas better capitalize.

No it isn't... it's a 6th seed that got hot at the right time...

Nothing dynasty about this team. The defense depends on Woodson and at 13 years, he has few left. They fell apart on defense when he went down...

They are suspect at WR and age is catching up with the good one's they have. They have very little running game...

They have a great QB...

This year's Superbowl was a match between teams with many faults... almost any team in the NFL could occupy GB's role next year...

[kristie]

Not so fast there... I think Dallas and few other teams will have something to say about that.

absolutely.

[rash]

No it isn't... it's a 6th seed that got hot at the right time...

Nothing dynasty about this team. The defense depends on Woodson and at 13 years, he has few left. They fell apart on defense when he went down...

They are suspect at WR and age is catching up with the good one's they have. They have very little running game...

They have an elite QB...

This year's Superbowl was a match between teams with many faults... almost any team in the NFL could occupy GB's role next year...

Had to change it.
With Rodgers at helm, they will always be contenders.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

No it isn't... it's a 6th seed that got hot at the right time...

Nothing dynasty about this team. The defense depends on Woodson and at 13 years, he has few left. They fell apart on defense when he went down...

They are suspect at WR and age is catching up with the good one's they have. They have very little running game...

They have a great QB...

This year's Superbowl was a match between teams with many faults... almost any team in the NFL could occupy GB's role next year...


Dude the only reason they had no run game was because they were missing their probowl runningback Ryan Grant. They have one of the best wide receiving cores in the NFL. Jennings is one of the best wideouts in the NFL, Nelson and Jones are solid and of course they have Finley coming back who is a beast. Woodson is great don't get me wrong but they have two very solid corners behind him in Shields and Williams so they won't miss a beat when he retires.

[TheCoolFan]

They're certainly not going anywhere. I think they will be the NFC's version of the Colts, except with a better defense, which makes them scarier. And Woodson is good but as long as Dom Capers is in that booth, they will have a top defense. He is the most important guy for them

[burmafrd]

well it was amazing how much difference losing Dawkins made to Philithy. And Capers will not be around much longer.

[Ren]

wasn't last year the start of a Saints dynasty?

Things change so fast in the NFL it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't even make the playoffs next season

[Sam I Am]

One thing about the NFL, you can predict NOTHING.

They have a core to be a good team for a long time, but to become a dynasty in today's NFL is one difficult thing to do.

[Idgit]

It was a really sloppy game against a slightly-overrated Steelers team that was probably the second-best team in the AFC this year. GB was entirely beatable last night. They've got a lot of work to do if they're putting together a dynasty.

[juck]

Blah. We r gonna go next year.

[perrykemp]

wasn't last year the start of a Saints dynasty?

Things change so fast in the NFL it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't even make the playoffs next season

Saint's defense was "ok" last year -- very opportunistic, however, the offense carried the team.

The Packers are scary because they have some much young talent and depth on BOTH sides of the ball.

[mldardy]

Dude the only reason they had no run game was because they were missing their probowl runningback Ryan Grant. They have one of the best wide receiving cores in the NFL. Jennings is one of the best wideouts in the NFL, Nelson and Jones are solid and of course they have Finley coming back who is a beast. Woodson is great don't get me wrong but they have two very solid corners behind him in Shields and Williams so they won't miss a beat when he retires.
Grant has never been to a Pro Bowl. Green Bay caught lightening in a bottle. I seriously doubt they will be a dynasty. They were on the verge of not making the playoffs until the last two weeks of the season. They have a lot of talent but they are not a special group that is going to go on some type of run IMO.

[Doomsday101]

When or if GB wins back to back SB then we can talk about dynasty until then they were a team who got hot at the right time

[Stautner]

When or if GB wins back to back SB then we can talk about dynasty until then they were a team who got hot at the right time
I agree. There is some evidence this could happen to them.

I saw Steve Young talking this morning about how they reminded him of the Cowboys in the earlier 1900's - young and had ulimate success a little quicker than expected, and that as players matured the team kept getting better.

I can see a comparison, but the bottom line is that the term dynasty can't be used based on assumptions of future success. When/if the Packers repeat then there can be a discussion.

[BrAinPaiNt]

How about we wait and see if they win another one before we hand over the dynasty tag.

So many are so winning to call this team or that team a dynasty, so many are willing to label this group or that group the next triplets.

How about we just wait and see instead of declaring it after one SB victory. People probably thought the same thing with Holmgren and Favre at the helm some years ago...did not exactly pan out for them like they thought.

Heck the only team that lived up to the hype was the Patriots...and that does not even take into account the cheating.

[Doomsday101]

I agree. There is some evidence this could happen to them.

I saw Steve Young talking this morning about how they reminded him of the Cowboys in the earlier 1900's - young and had ulimate success a little quicker than expected, and that as players matured the team kept getting better.

I can see a comparison, but the bottom line is that the term dynasty can't be used based on assumptions of future success. When/if the Packers repeat then there can be a discussion.

It could happen or it could be a case of a team getting hot at the right moment and running the table. I think GB has a very good chance of being a highly competitive team for a good while but dynasty at this stage if a bit pre mature

[Stautner]

It could happen or it could be a case of a team getting hot at the right moment and running the table. I think GB has a very good chance of being a highly competitive team for a good while but dynasty at this stage if a bit pre mature

Absolutley. At this point anything down the road is just speculation.

[tyke1doe]

I agree. There is some evidence this could happen to them.

I saw Steve Young talking this morning about how they reminded him of the Cowboys in the earlier 1900's - young and had ulimate success a little quicker than expected, and that as players matured the team kept getting better.

I can see a comparison, but the bottom line is that the term dynasty can't be used based on assumptions of future success. When/if the Packers repeat then there can be a discussion.

But the Cowboys had Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin. I don't see a Triplett set on the Packers like the Cowboys.

Bradshaw had Franco and Swann/Stallworth.

Dynasties are as much the supporting cast as they are the quarterback.

Besides, when you win, everyone starts to adjust to stop you. I'm encouraged by the Packers' win because the Cowboys have to structure their team to beat the best team in the NFC, which is now the Packers.

It happened that way in the 80s. The Giants were the unstoppable team, then the Eagles learn to beat them. Then the Skins learned to beat the Eagles and the Skins. Then the Cowboys had to learn how to beat the Giants, Eagles and Skins.

Then the 49ers had to adapt to beat the Cowboys. Then the Packers had to learn to beat the 49ers and Cowboys, etc.

We have a strong nucleus of players on this team - Romo, Felix, Dez, Witten, Miles Austin, Ware, Ratliff and, yes, even Jenkins (who I think will be better with better coaching). We get better coaching (Garrett seems to be doing a good job so far) and a few players in the draft, and we could be the next Packers.

[WV Cowboy]

When or if GB wins back to back SB then we can talk about dynasty until then they were a team who got hot at the right time

It is simply that simple.

They won the last regular season game by a FG, had they not won they would not have even made the playoffs.

That is not dynasty worthy.

Plus next year, all 16 games, every opponent will be looking to knock off the Defending Super Bowl Champs!

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Grant has never been to a Pro Bowl. Green Bay caught lightening in a bottle. I seriously doubt they will be a dynasty. They were on the verge of not making the playoffs until the last two weeks of the season. They have a lot of talent but they are not a special group that is going to go on some type of run IMO.

Grant got snubbed a couple if years because of all the good runningbacks in the NFC. The only reason they just snuck into the playoffs was because of all the injuries.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

It is simply that simple.

They won the last regular season game by a FG, had they not won they would not have even made the playoffs.

That is not dynasty worthy.

Plus next year, all 16 games, every opponent will be looking to knock off the Defending Super Bowl Champs!

WHO CARES? The point is the made playoffs quit saying well they barely got in, who cares they got in. Again the only reason they barely made the playoffs was because of injuries.

[FootballFan1]

Wow folks, talk about jumping the gun.

Rodgers is not an elite quarterback.
Green Bay is not a dynasty.
Green Bay won the SB.

Rodgers will not be an elite QB until he has played a number of good years -- not just one. I remember Carson Palmer and how I thought he was going to be the next elite QB -- one injury -- and never the same again. So, slow down.

Green Bay going to be a dynasty. Talk about that if they win next year, which is doubtful. It is very, very hard to win a SB, even if you are the best team. Can we wait on anointing them until they win again???

And yes, GB won the SB, and there are lots of smiles around -- except in Pittsburgh. And ask me if I care.

So ---- please already with this stuff.

[Doomsday101]

Wow folks, talk about jumping the gun.

Rodgers is not an elite quarterback.
Green Bay is not a dynasty.
Green Bay won the SB.

Rodgers will not be an elite QB until he has played a number of good years -- not just one. I remember Carson Palmer and how I thought he was going to be the next elite QB -- one injury -- and never the same again. So, slow down.

Green Bay going to be a dynasty. Talk about that if they win next year, which is doubtful. It is very, very hard to win a SB, even if you are the best team. Can we wait on anointing them until they win again???

And yes, GB won the SB, and there are lots of smiles around -- except in Pittsburgh. And ask me if I care.

So ---- please already with this stuff.

I think Rodgers is one of the top QB's in the NFL his numbers have been consistently amongst the tops in the league not just this year.

As for Dynasty I agree GB has not shown that as of yet.

[Stautner]

But the Cowboys had Aikman, Emmitt and Irvin. I don't see a Triplett set on the Packers like the Cowboys.

Bradshaw had Franco and Swann/Stallworth.

Dynasties are as much the supporting cast as they are the quarterback.

Besides, when you win, everyone starts to adjust to stop you. I'm encouraged by the Packers' win because the Cowboys have to structure their team to beat the best team in the NFC, which is now the Packers.

It happened that way in the 80s. The Giants were the unstoppable team, then the Eagles learn to beat them. Then the Skins learned to beat the Eagles and the Skins. Then the Cowboys had to learn how to beat the Giants, Eagles and Skins.

Then the 49ers had to adapt to beat the Cowboys. Then the Packers had to learn to beat the 49ers and Cowboys, etc.

We have a strong nucleus of players on this team - Romo, Felix, Dez, Witten, Miles Austin, Ware, Ratliff and, yes, even Jenkins (who I think will be better with better coaching). We get better coaching (Garrett seems to be doing a good job so far) and a few players in the draft, and we could be the next Packers.

I'm certainly not saying the situations are identical. Of course you have to realize the "Triplets" thing was something that evolved over time, and be can view with hindsight. We can't yet say what hindsight will show with the Packers of this era.

And of course dynasties involve the supporting cast and not just the QB. I wasn't just talking about the QB. The Packers have a young, agressive defense (although Woodson is aging), they have quality recievers, and when Grant and Finley get healthy their skill positions will be in great shape. They are much more than Rodgers.

Ultimately only time will tell how far they can go though.

[tyke1doe]

I'm certainly not saying the situations are identical. Of course you have to realize the "Triplets" thing was something that evolved over time, and be can view with hindsight. We can't yet say what hindsight will show with the Packers of this era.

And of course dynasties involve the supporting cast and not just the QB. I wasn't just talking about the QB. The Packers have a young, agressive defense (although Woodson is aging), they have quality recievers, and when Grant and Finley get healthy their skill positions will be in great shape. They are much more than Rodgers.

Ultimately only time will tell how far they can go though.

I understand. But I don't see the Packers any differently than I do the Bills of the 90s.

Fast-break offenses can be shut down by power-running teams or a defensive coordinator who has the talent to slow them down.

As you said, it's too early to say.

[FootballFan1]

I think Rodgers is one of the top QB's in the NFL his numbers have been consistently amongst the tops in the league not just this year.

As for Dynasty I agree GB has not shown that as of yet.

There is NO question that Rodgers is a good QB, but my point is, if he got injured and never played the same again, would you vote him into the HOF?? I doubt it.

The jury is still out in my eyes - in terms of saying he is an elite QB.

[Stautner]

There is NO question that Rodgers is a good QB, but my point is, if he got injured and never played the same again, would you vote him into the HOF?? I doubt it.

The jury is still out in my eyes - in terms of saying he is an elite QB.

Who talked about him as having already earned HOF status?

[tyke1doe]

There is NO question that Rodgers is a good QB, but my point is, if he got injured and never played the same again, would you vote him into the HOF?? I doubt it.

The jury is still out in my eyes - in terms of saying he is an elite QB.

He is an elite quarterback. He's just not a HOF quarterback.

[FootballFan1]

Who talked about him as having already earned HOF status?

To me, when you put the label of elite on a QB -- then he is HOF status.

He is a very good QB -- the jury is still out if he is an elite QB.

[Doomsday101]

There is NO question that Rodgers is a good QB, but my point is, if he got injured and never played the same again, would you vote him into the HOF?? I doubt it.

The jury is still out in my eyes - in terms of saying he is an elite QB.

I would just say if asked who are the elite QB's currently playing in the NFL then Rodgers would be one of them not based on this year but based on his play since he has become a starter. I think we are just seeing this from 2 different views. I do agree based on his 3 years as a starter no I would not have him in the HOF just yet.

[Stautner]

To me, when you put the label of elite on a QB -- then he is HOF status.

He is a very good QB -- the jury is still out if he is an elite QB.

People are referring to him as elite within the context of today's NFL, not in the context of the entire history of the NFL. He is being compared to Romo, Rivers, Brees, Manning etc. as to where he ranks with those guys as things stand today, not Unitas, Marino, Elway, Montana etc. in terms of where his career ranks with theirs.

It is possible to play at an elite level at a point in time and not have an elite career.

[ShiningStar]

I mean look at how they won the superbowl. No Jermichael Finley who is an elite tight end, Grant a big time runningback, no Woodson for most of the game and with all those injuries they suffered they still won the championship. They have so many great young players. Aaron Rodgers, B.J. Raji, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley, Tramon Williams, and of course Clay Matthews. Green Bay has a huge championship window. I expect them to win at least 3 more championships in the Rodgers era. The Cowboys are gonna find it very tough to end the superbowl drought which right now is at 16 years with the Packers around. Whenever the Packers don't win Dallas better capitalize.


how many of their players might be lost in FA? Define dynasty? 2, 3 years? 1 year of hitting lighting in a bottle leads to a Dynasty? Could the same be said of every team when they win the SB?

First define dynasty for me, than look at the FA, than the new CBA, than how other teams judge the SB winner by how its picked off during the offseason, equal all that up, throw it out than tell me how the team did 3 years down the road, than we can talk facts.

[FootballFan1]

I would just say if asked who are the elite QB's currently playing in the NFL then Rodgers would be one of them not based on this year but based on his play since he has become a starter. I think we are just seeing this from 2 different views. I do agree based on his 3 years as a starter no I would not have him in the HOF just yet.

I think it is just semantics right now -- what you, or someone else would call elite. And I have zero problem with that.

I just have a different definition. When I think elite -- old QB's, I think Montana, I think Marino, I think -- one of your guys -- Staubach.

To me, Montana was the best that played the game. When he stepped on the field, anything could happen. The guy was amazing.

Like all this nonsense about Big Ben. I never once feared that guy when he stepped on the field -- and a few weeks ago he was an "elite" QB in some people's eyes. No way, no way, no way. And if GB lost last night, no one would be calling Rodgers elite.

Again, a very good QB. Elite is a word I am not going to attach to any QB until they have been around for a while. And they don't even have to win a SB -- nope, football is a team sport, and without the surrounding players you are NOT going to be winning any Super Bowls.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Wow folks, talk about jumping the gun.

Rodgers is not an elite quarterback.
Green Bay is not a dynasty.
Green Bay won the SB.

Rodgers will not be an elite QB until he has played a number of good years -- not just one. I remember Carson Palmer and how I thought he was going to be the next elite QB -- one injury -- and never the same again. So, slow down.

Green Bay going to be a dynasty. Talk about that if they win next year, which is doubtful. It is very, very hard to win a SB, even if you are the best team. Can we wait on anointing them until they win again???

And yes, GB won the SB, and there are lots of smiles around -- except in Pittsburgh. And ask me if I care.

So ---- please already with this stuff.

:lmao:

[zrinkill]

Heard the same stuff last year about the Saints.

[mldardy]

Grant got snubbed a couple if years because of all the good runningbacks in the NFC. The only reason they just snuck into the playoffs was because of all the injuries.
Man are you an excuse maker or what. The Pack were struggling before all of the major injuries. They were 3-3 at one point during the season before the injuries. And getting snubbed and making the Pro Bowl are two different things. Grant is a good running back but obviously he was replaceable. The only reason they snuck into the playoffs is because they didn't start off great even while fully healthy and then got hot and played well at the right time. Injuries or no injuries.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Man are you an excuse maker or what. The Pack were struggling before all of the major injuries. They were 3-3 at one point during the season before the injuries. And getting snubbed and making the Pro Bowl are two different things. Grant is a good running back but obviously he was replaceable. The only reason they snuck into the playoffs is because they didn't start off great even while fully healthy and then got hot and played well at the right time. Injuries or no injuries.

Grant went down before the 3-3 start and he was never replaced and still won a title. Quit hating.

[perrykemp]

Grant went down before the 3-3 start and he was never replaced and still won a title. Quit hating.

Agreed -- Grant was a 1200 yard rusher for them and fit their offense perfectly. They struggled MIGHTILY most of the year to get any production from the running game.

[SacredStar]

Rogers is elite, no doubt about it.

There is no weakness in his game, not one. He has all the tools and can read defenses really good. He runs the WCO to perfection, and he is the biggest part of it.

[mldardy]

Grant went down before the 3-3 start and he was never replaced and still won a title. Quit hating.
Quit hating. :lmao2:Are you 12 or 13? Oh I forgot Grant was the only player that mattered because he is a Pro Bowler.:rolleyes: Green Bay was losing because they weren't playing well early in the year. Not because RYAN GRANT was injured. You have to be a charter member of the Ryan Grant fan club. How many letters did you write him this year? DEAR RYAN, I WUB YOU.

[yimyammer]

I'll bet $20 bucks green bay will get back to the super bowl before the cowboys. If neither team makes it in the next 5 years it's a push

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Quit hating. :lmao2:Are you 12 or 13? Oh I forgot Grant was the only player that mattered because he is a Pro Bowler.:rolleyes: Green Bay was losing because they weren't playing well early in the year. Not because RYAN GRANT was injured. You have to be a charter member of the Ryan Grant fan club. How many letters did you write him this year? DEAR RYAN, I WUB YOU.

LMFAO. Grant is an elite back of course he was a huge reason they struggled early.

[perrykemp]

LMFAO. Grant is an elite back of course he was a huge reason they struggled early.

Grant isn't great by any means, but he has been averaging 1200 yards/season the past couple of seasons. He's not chopped liver. He fits what they do pretty well.

[mldardy]

LMFAO. Grant is an elite back of course he was a huge reason they struggled early.
Grant, an elite back? That would be reserved for Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Michael Turner, MJD. Grant is not in that category and he can't even stay healthy. Please.

[Chocolate Lab]

Cool story.

:laugh2:

[FootballFan1]

I'll bet $20 bucks green bay will get back to the super bowl before the cowboys. If neither team makes it in the next 5 years it's a push

OK, I will bite on this. Trying to avoid going out and doing yard work. But I will bite first. And don't mind if you give me a little nonsense on it.

You cannot follow all teams, and know WHY a team has a weakness. The Boys have a great tradition and the last 10 years have been lackluster. Any thoughts as to why??

Is it Jones??? And before you say anything, as a Pats fan, I do not like Kraft. I would never post that on a Pats board -- they would string me up. I really do not like the guy, and if you want to know why I will take the time to say why.

Jones made a good decision bringing in Jimmy Johnson. He was a good coach, but since Jimmy you folks have not been an impact team. Romo seems OK as a QB --

I know there is a lot of luck when it comes to the draft. You think someone is going to be great and they turn out a bust. And you don't get enough choices to make a difference in the first year. It is a matter of building a team from the ground up -- and then keep working on it. And of course, FA, you can fill some of the gaps.

Just curious, do you think Jones is the problem??? Not that he is going anywhere, or that he doesn't want the team to be good. I am thinking this because I think the business side of the team should keep their nose out of football operations. Give direction, and then get out of the way.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Grant, an elite back? That would be reserved for Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Michael Turner, MJD. Grant is not in that category and he can't even stay healthy. Please.

This is his 1st major injury he is not injury prone. When he's healthy he averaged over 1,200 yards on the ground and over 4 yards a carry and he's not even playing on a run first team like Peterson, Jones Drew, Turner, and Johnson.

[Stautner]

I understand. But I don't see the Packers any differently than I do the Bills of the 90s.

Fast-break offenses can be shut down by power-running teams or a defensive coordinator who has the talent to slow them down.

As you said, it's too early to say.

They may not be any more than that, although they have at least got a Super Bowl win, which the Bills could never do.

Keep in mind I'm not saying that ARE a dynasty or that they will be, just that they have some positives that could lead to a lot of success in the future.

[yimyammer]

OK, I will bite on this. Trying to avoid going out and doing yard work. But I will bite first. And don't mind if you give me a little nonsense on it.

You cannot follow all teams, and know WHY a team has a weakness. The Boys have a great tradition and the last 10 years have been lackluster. Any thoughts as to why??

Is it Jones??? And before you say anything, as a Pats fan, I do not like Kraft. I would never post that on a Pats board -- they would string me up. I really do not like the guy, and if you want to know why I will take the time to say why.

Jones made a good decision bringing in Jimmy Johnson. He was a good coach, but since Jimmy you folks have not been an impact team. Romo seems OK as a QB --

I know there is a lot of luck when it comes to the draft. You think someone is going to be great and they turn out a bust. And you don't get enough choices to make a difference in the first year. It is a matter of building a team from the ground up -- and then keep working on it. And of course, FA, you can fill some of the gaps.

Just curious, do you think Jones is the problem??? Not that he is going anywhere, or that he doesn't want the team to be good. I am thinking this because I think the business side of the team should keep their nose out of football operations. Give direction, and then get out of the way.

I just think the Packers are ahead of the cowboys and every other NFC team right now, they're the second youngest team in the NFL, have a great QB and they just won a Super Bowl with 16 players on IR. I don't have a problem recognizing other teams for what they appear to me to be, even if that requires me to believe that team is currently better than my Cowboys (if Brady stays healthy a lot of teams are going to struggle to keep up with the Pats given they just went 14-2 and have 8 picks in rounds 1-4 of next years draft).

Given the fact the Cowboys Oline, safeties and secondary seem to have issues, it just seems to me that it's going to take time (years) to get things fixed (barring some really great drafting and player development, which i hope I see). I'm optimistic about Garrett and he's the wild card that could help improve the team at a faster pace.

I'm not sure who's at fault with the Cowboys (but the buck does start and stop with Jones), they don't appear to be as strong at drafting and player development as other teams but I'm honestly not privy to any inside info or qualified to say this with certainty, it's just my perception.

It's just an opinion that I'm willing to put a little money behind and has nothing to do with how I feel about my team as a fan but no doubt my fan status will be called into question.

PM me if you want to make the bet and we can finalize it there.

[Rynie]

OK, I will bite on this. Trying to avoid going out and doing yard work. But I will bite first. And don't mind if you give me a little nonsense on it.

You cannot follow all teams, and know WHY a team has a weakness. The Boys have a great tradition and the last 10 years have been lackluster. Any thoughts as to why??

Is it Jones??? And before you say anything, as a Pats fan, I do not like Kraft. I would never post that on a Pats board -- they would string me up. I really do not like the guy, and if you want to know why I will take the time to say why.

Jones made a good decision bringing in Jimmy Johnson. He was a good coach, but since Jimmy you folks have not been an impact team. Romo seems OK as a QB --

I know there is a lot of luck when it comes to the draft. You think someone is going to be great and they turn out a bust. And you don't get enough choices to make a difference in the first year. It is a matter of building a team from the ground up -- and then keep working on it. And of course, FA, you can fill some of the gaps.

Just curious, do you think Jones is the problem??? Not that he is going anywhere, or that he doesn't want the team to be good. I am thinking this because I think the business side of the team should keep their nose out of football operations. Give direction, and then get out of the way.


I'd like to know. PM if you wish. According to this board, he's everything Jerry Jones is NOT. haha.

[FootballFan1]

I'd like to know. PM if you wish. According to this board, he's everything Jerry Jones is NOT. haha.

No PM's, if I am going to write this, then it should be open.

You have to understand the history of the Pats before you understand what I am going to write. New England has never been a football area until the last 20 years or so. It was baseball (mostly) - but actually I think the Pats and the Sox are pretty much tied now (don't tell a Red Sox fan that). But I lived all over the country and have always been a football fan. Always.

So I got season tickets early on, and we mostly filled the stadium but only about 50% of the people there were season ticket holders. I was one. And actually we were pretty crazy, and a lot of us knew each other -- many of us would tailgate early on in the game (the stadium is in the woods). And Kraft was one of those people - just a season ticket holder. But the people that were there were what I am going to call real football fans. Die-hards, and yes we got wild at times.

Saint Louis lost their team, and the guy that bought us was an Anheuser Busch guy that was determined to bring a team back to Saint Louis (thank god that LA lost on that one). I am sure he had full intentions of bringing our team to Saint Louis. It was a very hard day.

But football was starting to take over in New England -- and money talks -- and it didn't happen. A team was going to stay in NE, the market was there. But WHO??? Parcells was interested (tried hard), but Kraft won out.

So yes, he is wealthy, but most of that money was from his wife, not him. He was smart and turned those dollars into more dollars.

But what happened -- us die-hards that supported the team were slowly closed out. Cannot really explain it, but we were all supposed to turn into something other than real football fans.

Prices were raised, security increased. And the football team that I supported was turned into a business. A business. Well, OK, so be it. It is that way in almost everything we touch today. Big, or money always talks before a real fan. And he does that by giving the SB tickets to the people that pay the big bucks, and the rest of us are thrown into a lottery. Well, good luck with that.

I guess I don't like the guy because he was one of us -- and should understand a little. But no, it is business, business, business. I know he cares about the team -- and to me gets a little too involved at times. But he doesn't give a crap about the people that made this team happen and stay in NE.

So, I think he is egotistical, and is just too full of himself. Yes, you own the team, but get a grip. Without fans, you are nothing. Fortunately for him he can fluff his feathers and do as he chooses. The fan base is set, and like Red Sox fans they are going no where. I guess I just do not like his attitude, being nothing more than a season ticket holder like the rest of us that signed early on.

This probably doesn't make an ounce of sense, but it does to me. Just the way of the world today -- doesn't mean I have to like it. To me, give me the old football stadium with some real die-hard fans with a morning full of tailgating -- and no security making sure we all behave ourselves -- or did I raise my voice or anything???

Just my thoughts.

[baj1dallas]

Dude the only reason they had no run game was because they were missing their probowl runningback Ryan Grant. They have one of the best wide receiving cores in the NFL. Jennings is one of the best wideouts in the NFL, Nelson and Jones are solid and of course they have Finley coming back who is a beast. Woodson is great don't get me wrong but they have two very solid corners behind him in Shields and Williams so they won't miss a beat when he retires.

Grant is average at best and you will have a hard time finding even Packers fans that think he is elite. Jennings is consistently a top 10-15 WR but he is getting up there in age and DRiver is even older. Nelson had a ton of drops in the SB and he is not any better than a lot of teams' 3rd WR. Finley has not proven he is elite, Shields is no world beater and Williams was almost out of the NFL multiple times.

Plus they have an aging offensive line that has looked mediocre at times. They will be a force in the NFC North for the next couple of seasons but Detroit absolutely handled them this year, don't write that game off. My prediction is that they make one more Superbowl in the next 5 years but I don't think they'll be a dynasty. Minnesota and Chicago will get real QBs and Detroit is improving.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Grant is average at best and you will have a hard time finding even Packers fans that think he is elite. Jennings is consistently a top 10-15 WR but he is getting up there in age and DRiver is even older. Nelson had a ton of drops in the SB and he is not any better than a lot of teams' 3rd WR. Finley has not proven he is elite, Shields is no world beater and Williams was almost out of the NFL multiple times.

Plus they have an aging offensive line that has looked mediocre at times. They will be a force in the NFC North for the next couple of seasons but Detroit absolutely handled them this year, don't write that game off. My prediction is that they make one more Superbowl in the next 5 years but I don't think they'll be a dynasty. Minnesota and Chicago will get real QBs and Detroit is improving.

Grant a guy who rushed for over 1,200 yards is average? :lmao2:

Also lol @ Jennings aging the dude is 27.

[dbair1967]

Grant a guy who rushed for over 1,200 yards is average? :lmao2:

Also lol @ Jennings aging the dude is 27.

LOL at your Packers dynasty talk

[FloridaRob]

Grant is average at best and you will have a hard time finding even Packers fans that think he is elite. Jennings is consistently a top 10-15 WR but he is getting up there in age and DRiver is even older. Nelson had a ton of drops in the SB and he is not any better than a lot of teams' 3rd WR. Finley has not proven he is elite, Shields is no world beater and Williams was almost out of the NFL multiple times.

Plus they have an aging offensive line that has looked mediocre at times. They will be a force in the NFC North for the next couple of seasons but Detroit absolutely handled them this year, don't write that game off. My prediction is that they make one more Superbowl in the next 5 years but I don't think they'll be a dynasty. Minnesota and Chicago will get real QBs and Detroit is improving.


this is a funny post. the only thing i agree on is that Grant is not that great but he does fit the Packers offense perfect. Nelson is not the Packers no 1 or no 2. He is a hell of a no 3 receiver tho. As far as Finley goes, you have no idea how much the team missed him this year. As far as his talent goes, rewind the tape of the Arizona game last year. He was and is a remarkable talent. Once he stays injury free he will be one of the top three TEs in the leage. Shields and Williams might not be world beaters but nobody can catch a pass on them. Williams was the best CB in the league this year.

As far as their offensive line goes, only Clifton is old and he will be 33 next year. He has a couple more years i him. Minnesota and Chicago have been trying to get real QBs for the past thirty years and have not had any luck. Don't know why you think they will snap their fingers and get one like that. Detroit definetely handled them this year and will probably pass Chicago and Minny in the standing next year. But they still have a china doll at QB.

Packers won't be the same next year either. What you saw this year was a team that was not firing on all cylinders. Wait until Finley gets in back, Burnett gets back, Neal and Jolly get back on the defensive line, and watch how the best GM in football has another draft class to provide even more depth.

I don't know if or when they will win another super bowl but they surely have the talent, and depth to be there again and be reckoned with. I don't see another team in the NFC remotely close to them in depth or talent. Maybe New Orleans and Dallas in talent but nowhere near the depth.

[Stautner]

this is a funny post. the only thing i agree on is that Grant is not that great but he does fit the Packers offense perfect. Nelson is not the Packers no 1 or no 2. He is a hell of a no 3 receiver tho. As far as Finley goes, you have no idea how much the team missed him this year. As far as his talent goes, rewind the tape of the Arizona game last year. He was and is a remarkable talent. Once he stays injury free he will be one of the top three TEs in the leage. Shields and Williams might not be world beaters but nobody can catch a pass on them. Williams was the best CB in the league this year.

As far as their offensive line goes, only Clifton is old and he will be 33 next year. He has a couple more years i him. Minnesota and Chicago have been trying to get real QBs for the past thirty years and have not had any luck. Don't know why you think they will snap their fingers and get one like that. Detroit definetely handled them this year and will probably pass Chicago and Minny in the standing next year. But they still have a china doll at QB.

Packers won't be the same next year either. What you saw this year was a team that was not firing on all cylinders. Wait until Finley gets in back, Burnett gets back, Neal and Jolly get back on the defensive line, and watch how the best GM in football has another draft class to provide even more depth.

I don't know if or when they will win another super bowl but they surely have the talent, and depth to be there again and be reckoned with. I don't see another team in the NFC remotely close to them in depth or talent. Maybe New Orleans and Dallas in talent but nowhere near the depth.

Face it Rob, some people will knock down any team as a way to make them feel better about their own team.

The reality is that while it's pretty ridiculous to use the term dynasty at this poit, the Packers are a very good team that has the talent to have success for the next several years. Any fair minded person can see that.