Texas Rangers Thread

[TheCowboy]

Let's Go Rangers! Opening day is tomorrow. Beat the Sox!

[DFWJC]

Let's Go Rangers! Opening day is tomorrow. Beat the Sox!
Thinking about going.

[WDN]

Thinking about going.

Be prepared to pay an arm and leg for a ticket. The scalpers are goo.g to make a killing.

[DFWJC]

Be prepared to pay an arm and leg for a ticket. The scalpers are goo.g to make a killing.
Yeah. I checked out the prices and it's pretty steep. In fact, someone said on the radio yesterday that average secondary market sales prices for Rangers tickets so far are 3rd in the major leagues right now behind the Yankess and Red Sox. We'll see how long that lasts.

[StylisticS]

For my 5000th post. Lets go Rangers.

[TheCowboy]

For those of you actually living in Texas, you are so lucky.

[cowboyeric8]

For those of you actually living in Texas, you are so lucky.

All the Texas pide. What brought you to New York?

[Stautner]

Be prepared to pay an arm and leg for a ticket. The scalpers are goo.g to make a killing.

They haven't allowed scalpers in Arlington for several years now - just Stub Hub and that kind of thing. But yes, it will be pricey.

[WDN]

They haven't allowed scalpers in Arlington for several years now - just Stub Hub and that kind of thing. But yes, it will be pricey.

And they haven't sold drugs in arlington either....

[Stautner]

And they haven't sold drugs in arlington either....

So, you know where to find the underground scalp houses in the bad part of town that are smuggling tickets across the border from Mexico?

Of course there are ways to find tickets 2nd hand, but I'm referring to someone going to the game expecting to find scalpers. That aint there. If you have any experience attending Ranger games you will know this was once an accepted practice and you could find scalpers up and down the streets leading to the park. That is no longer the case. You may be able to find tickets advertised in the news paper, and I'm sure there are some sleaze balls a person could find if they looked hard enough, but like I said, the best chance of finding tickets is 2nd hand marketers ike Stub Hub and others.

[DFWJC]

Two sides of a coin already:

Julio Borbon has already made an error...that took all of one at bat for that to happen. The Red Sox scored an unearned run.

Good news is that Kinsler hit a homer on the Rangers 1st at bat of the season.

[Stautner]

Two sides of a coin already:

Julio Borbon has already made an error...that took all of one at bat for that to happen. The Red Sox scored an unearned run.

Good news is that Kinsler hit a homer on the Rangers 1st at bat of the season.

Borbon isn't going to last a the everyday centerfielder. As usual the team will eventually reach the conclusion that David Murphy needs to be in the lineup. The only thing Borbon has over Murphy is pure speed, and even with that Murphy is just a good at going after balls because he gets a better jump. Murphy has a better glove and dramatically stronger arm too, and is a better hitter in terms of both average and power. Essentially Borbon is only better as a base stealer.

[TheCoolFan]

Bad to know that Darren Oliver still sucks!

[MegaMagick]

*sigh* Accidently slept through the game, glad the Rangers came through though.

[Sam I Am]

MurphDog best 4th outfielder in baseball.

[cowboyeric8]

Great season opener. Borbon's act is old, Murphy has always outperformed, time for him to be the everyday player.

[Sam I Am]

Great season opener. Borbon's act is old, Murphy has always outperformed, time for him to be the everyday player.

I love Hamilton in center except for the fact that he always injuries himself out there. He is a far better center fielder than Borbon. All he needs to do is learn to protect himself better and you toss Borbon.

Give me Murphy in left, Hamilton in center, and Nellie in right. Have Moreland your 4th outfielder if needed.

[WDN]

I love Hamilton in center except for the fact that he always injuries himself out there. He is a far better center fielder than Borbon. All he needs to do is learn to protect himself better and you toss Borbon.

Give me Murphy in left, Hamilton in center, and Nellie in right. Have Moreland your 4th outfielder if needed.

Hamilton gives 110% in the field so asking him to protect himself isnt going to work. We just need to have smarter play in the outfield and that way we can extend his career by keeping him in left field.

I have been a Borbon backer for awhile and even I am starting to waiver on him as the answer. They will probably give him some more time but he should be on a short leash. Almost ready to see Beltre out there.

[Sam I Am]

I have been a Borbon backer for awhile and even I am starting to waiver on him as the answer. They will probably give him some more time but he should be on a short leash. Almost ready to see Beltre out there.

I have too. The guy has the ability to be a great center fielder, but he is always an error waiting to happen. Maybe the guy needs glasses or something. :bang2:

[cowboyeric8]

I have too. The guy has the ability to be a great center fielder, but he is always an error waiting to happen. Maybe the guy needs glasses or something. :bang2:

I think at this point its just mental. But he needs to be hitting as well. I always liked Gentry.

[MegaMagick]

If Ian Kinsler stays healthy i think he has a good chance at the MVP.

Along with him we have at least 3-4 MVP type guys(Cruz, Hamilton, Kinsler, Beltre) with the rest being all star caliber players.

However the pitching scares the hell out of me.

[Gzus]

Welcome to Texas, Adrian Beltre! What a hit, walking Josh Hamilton and load the bases to get to Beltre.... Guess no one will do that anymore :)

[StylisticS]

Incredible offense Texas has.

[Gzus]

Wow, so in two games each of the three key new guys have hit homers.... Napoli with a 3 run shot on Opening Day, Beltre with a grand slam today, and Yorvit with a 2 run shot today too. Looks like JD made some good moves so far.

[danielofthesaints]

This game is getting ridiculous. We have a very potent offense right now.

[TheCoolFan]

Great showing by Beltre so far! Replacing Vladdy's production this season

[DFWJC]

Game 3:
The Rangers are going for the sweep! Hope this does not jinx :)
Harrison pitched incredibly.

Up 5-1 in the top of the 9th.

Feliz in in to hopefully close the door.

Get this, the Rangers have hit 4 more homers. Kinsler and Cruz each hit another homer--so both have 3 HRs in 3 games.

What a start.

[DFWJC]

Game 3:
The Rangers are going for the sweep! Hope this does not jinx :)
Harrison pitched incredibly.

Up 5-1 in the top of the 9th.

Feliz in in to hopefully close the door.

Get this, the Rangers have hit 4 more homers. Kinsler and Cruz each hit another homer--so both have 3 HRs in 3 games.

What a start.
1-2-3

SWEEP!
Great Start Rangers

[Sam I Am]

http://onlytheblogknowsbrooklyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/400px-Broom_icon.svg_.png

[DallasGirl50]

Go Rangers! Sweet....

[cowboyeric8]

The offense is scary. You know its a good lineup when the pitcher is relieved to face Young just because he is less likely to go yard, but he had two solid pattented Young hits. And Harrison had some serious movement on his pitches.

[windward]

Nice start to the season.

Bring on the Mariners!

[TheCowboy]

I smell AL-Champs repeat? I hope so!

[windward]

I smell AL-Champs repeat? I hope so!
It's a looong season, but you have to love the state of the franchise now that Nolan is running things.

Jon Daniels' overhauling of the team has worked beautifully as well.

[WDN]

It's a looong season, but you have to love the state of the franchise now that Nolan is running things.

Jon Daniels' overhauling of the team has worked beautifully as well.

I have been a big fan of Daniels but the trading of Adrian Gonzalez still gets me.....

[cowboyeric8]

I smell AL-Champs repeat? I hope so!

I wouldn't go that far. I'm hoping for a division repeat and we can go from there. Our offense will be cold some games, and relying on a shaky starting rotation and old relievers. So we shall see, but it should be a fun season.

[Sam I Am]

I wouldn't go that far. I'm hoping for a division repeat and we can go from there. Our offense will be cold some games, and relying on a shaky starting rotation and old relievers. So we shall see, but it should be a fun season.

The pitching has to solidify. As a long time Rangers fan, I know even the most powerful offense can win you some games, but it won't win crap in the playoffs. You've got to have the pitching to match.

[Stautner]

The offense is scary. You know its a good lineup when the pitcher is relieved to face Young just because he is less likely to go yard, but he had two solid pattented Young hits. And Harrison had some serious movement on his pitches.

The Rangers offense has been potent most years, but it has always suffered ups and downs. They can go through stretches like this where they mash the ball and score a lot, then it can dry up wher they have trouble scoring at all for a few games. Ranger season batting stats are generally built on the highs being high enough to cover the lows, but result in games can be that the lows cost them. This was a great start, but consistency will be the key. Would have been nice to get a few people on base yesterday.

I have been a big fan of Daniels but the trading of Adrian Gonzalez still gets me.....

Was Daniels even the GM yet when Gonzales was traded?

[WDN]

The Rangers offense has been potent most years, but it has always suffered ups and downs. They can go through stretches like this where they mash the ball and score a lot, then it can dry up wher they have trouble scoring at all for a few games. Ranger season batting stats are generally built on the highs being high enough to cover the lows, but result in games can be that the lows cost them. This was a great start, but consistency will be the key. Would have been nice to get a few people on base yesterday.



Was Daniels even the GM yet when Gonzales was traded?

Yes. There was an interview over the weekend about it and naturally he regrets it. Think he said that if he had known Texas was ready to compete this soon that he would of done something different.

[Stautner]

Yes. There was an interview over the weekend about it and naturally he regrets it. Think he said that if he had known Texas was ready to compete this soon that he would of done something different.

Gonzales has been gone for awhile, I think 5-6 years, so it's not as if he traded him when we were right on the cusp of winning it all. I team can't refuse to make moves with the concern that a guy might fit in the mix just right 5 years later. The big regret is that I don't think we got any quality for him in the trade.

[Sam I Am]

Gonzales has been gone for awhile, I think 5-6 years, so it's not as if he traded him when we were right on the cusp of winning it all. I team can't refuse to make moves with the concern that a guy might fit in the mix just right 5 years later. The big regret is that I don't think we got any quality for him in the trade.

Chris Young was included in that trade too. That was a god awful trade.

[Stautner]

Chris Young was included in that trade too. That was a god awful trade.

Yeah, it was a really bad trade. Young hasn't stayed healthy enough to be as good as he could have, but the Padres got some quality pitching out of him for a year or two. And, of course, Gonzales. I don't think we got enough for even Young or Gonzales alone, much less combined. I remember Adam Eaton was in the deal, but he was coming off injury I believe an didn't do much, and then there was an Asian reliever - can't remember his name.

[cowboyeric8]

Well we did pretty good in the Teixaira trade. You win some, you lose some.

[cowboyeric8]

4-0 Rangers beat the Mariners. Elvis goes yard, and Cruz continues his streak.

[Sam I Am]

I didn't get to watch the game. I guess I'm going to end up getting MLB.tv again. I've done it the last 2-3 years, might as well do it again. Especially since they are playing so well. Makes it that much more worth it.

[cowboyeric8]

5-0 Rangers beat Mariners again 3-2. Ogando looked great, a few clutch hits, and Feliz shutting them down.

[MC KAos]

looking good so far, i am a bit concerned about middle relief tho, as always

[Sam I Am]

Looks like Lowe is going to be a complete train-wreck. Bring back Kirkman for a bullpen role. :laugh2:

[WDN]

Looks like Lowe is going to be a complete train-wreck. Bring back Kirkman for a bullpen role. :laugh2:

I haven't heard lately but at the roundrock/ranger exhibition they pulled Kirkman because of a hamstring. I don't think its bad but I haven't heard anything.

[Sam I Am]

I haven't heard lately but at the roundrock/ranger exhibition they pulled Kirkman because of a hamstring. I don't think its bad but I haven't heard anything.

Thanks for the update. Living way up here in NY, I don't hear much except what is noted on texasrangers.com. I didn't see anything posted about Kirkman on there.

[WDN]

Thanks for the update. Living way up here in NY, I don't hear much except what is noted on texasrangers.com. I didn't see anything posted about Kirkman on there.

Just looked and he is slated to pitch the round rock opener Friday so it must be ok. I believe I have moderated the injury, though. Due to my horrid memory I believe it was a ball that was hit back to him and hit him in the leg not a hamstring injury.

[Chocolate Lab]

Actually Kirkman got hit in the bicep/elbow on a line drive from Nellie Cruz. (And he was rolling at the time, too.)

He's lucky to be alive! ;)

[WDN]

Actually Kirkman got hit in the bicep/elbow on a line drive from Nellie Cruz. (And he was rolling at the time, too.)

He's lucky to be alive! ;)

Well I was out in homerun porch and it looked like he was moving his leg when I looked up.

[Chocolate Lab]

I just happened to be listening to that game on the radio, and the radio guys said it looked really bad, like he took it squarely on the elbow... It was only later they reported it got him more on the bicep and he'd be okay. I was kidding (sort of) about him getting killed, but he really is lucky because a direct shot on the elbow and who knows how long he'd be out.

BTW, I bet you're pumped to have the Rangers down there now. I'm sort of mad at myself for never going to see the AAA team when they were at the very nice ballpark in Oklahoma City all those years. Now I have no interest in seeing future Astros.

[DFWJC]

5-0 Rangers beat Mariners again 3-2. Ogando looked great, a few clutch hits, and Feliz shutting them down.
I think we have something with Ogando. He was great late last season and looks like he could make the transition to starter.
Gotta love having some young guns in the rotation!

However, like was said above, we could have issue with the middel relievers. And i can see why Feliz is closing (thoough he very well could be our ace starter in a year).

[WDN]

I just happened to be listening to that game on the radio, and the radio guys said it looked really bad, like he took it squarely on the elbow... It was only later they reported it got him more on the bicep and he'd be okay. I was kidding (sort of) about him getting killed, but he really is lucky because a direct shot on the elbow and who knows how long he'd be out.

BTW, I bet you're pumped to have the Rangers down there now. I'm sort of mad at myself for never going to see the AAA team when they were at the very nice ballpark in Oklahoma City all those years. Now I have no interest in seeing future Astros.

Its great. Im about an hour away from Round Rock and a couple away from Arlington. Rangers in both directions.!!!

[Stautner]

Nellie couldn't hit another homerun - he sucks.

[Sam I Am]

Nellie couldn't hit another homerun - he sucks.

I agree. Cut his (bleeping) (bleep)!!1! :laugh2:

Man, I can't believe he passed waivers a few years ago. We would be hating it BIG TIME if he was doing this for someone else!

[Sam I Am]

Felix should put the Rangers hot hitting to the test today. Can CJ hold off the Mariners long enough for the Rangers hitting to pull it out? (and the bullpen not crater)

Game starts in less than an hour!

[Stautner]

Felix should put the Rangers hot hitting to the test today. Can CJ hold off the Mariners long enough for the Rangers hitting to pull it out? (and the bullpen not crater)

Game starts in less than an hour!

Felix is a hell of a pitcher and the Rangers usually struggle against him. The deal the Rangers made with Seattle worked out well last year. Wonder if we could sweet talk them out of Felix this year. One can dream, right?

[DFWJC]

Felix is a hell of a pitcher and the Rangers usually struggle against him. The deal the Rangers made with Seattle worked out well last year. Wonder if we could sweet talk them out of Felix this year. One can dream, right?
Two on and one out for the Rangers in the first.
Get to Hernandez early or not at all...
so, GO RANGERS

---
nope....
0-0 after one

[StylisticS]

It's 3-1 now in favor of Texas heading to the bottom of the 3rd. All four runs combined for both teams came off of errors. Three already committed in the game. Is this the worse defensive year so far in MLB history because it's ridiculous.

[Sam I Am]

Welp, Texas has allowed the Marniers to tie it at 3-3 in the 6th. Now it's bottom of the 7th with 1 out. (Texas at bat)

[Sam I Am]

David Murphy singles then steals second.

Yorvit flies out

Moreland doubles scoring Murphy

Texas up 4-3.

[DFWJC]

Wilson pitched 7 full innnings, they're going with Rhodes et al now to try to make it one inning to get to the 9th.

[DFWJC]

1-2-3 Rhondes mowed em down.
Bottom of the 8th, 4-3 good guys.

[dback]

And Nelly Cruz knocks in some insurance runs. Rangers up 6-3

[DFWJC]

lol

7-3 Rangers
2 out, bottom 8th

turn out the lights.....

[TheDallasDon]

7-3 Go Rangers!!!!

[dback]

Ball Game!!!

[cowboyeric8]

Rangers are now 6-0, 7-3 to beat the Mariners. Good battle between CJ and Felix today. Rangers clutch hitting came through again.

Go Rangers!

[Sam I Am]

Woot! :D

[DFWJC]

3 saves and no runs so far this year for Neftali

[cowboyeric8]

Thank God baseball is back. I wouldn't be able to deal with all the stupid labor talks.

[Stautner]

good win. I had the DVR recording it, but I can't stand waiting that long to know.

[TheCowboy]

We're going 162-0.. Book it.

lol

[DallasGirl50]

We're going 162-0.. Book it.

lol


From your lips to God's ears I hope...Go Rangers!

[danielofthesaints]

We're going 162-0.. Book it.

lol

i would rather go 173-0. know what I'm sayin'

[cowboyeric8]

i would rather go 173-0. know what I'm sayin'

I don't care what our record is as long as there is October baseball again, and then I would take those last 11 wins. :D

[Gzus]

First loss today.... 5-0 :( Followed up by a 13-1 rout! :D Harrison pitched like a beast again, they guy only allowed 2 hits and 1 BB, not bad.

[TheCoolFan]

Derek Holland with a great game today!

[cowboyeric8]

Derek Holland with a great game today!

Yes sir, and another series win. Lets see if Ogando can put another good one together tomorrow at Detroit.

[TheCowboy]

Well we can live with 161-1, right? ;)

[DallasGirl50]

Great start to the season!

[Sam I Am]

I can't tell you how excited I am about some of the little things that are happening too. Ian Kinsler flatting out his swing is huge too. It will make him an even better hitter this year than he was last year. I just hope he and Nelly can stay healthy.

[Stautner]

I can't tell you how excited I am about some of the little things that are happening too. Ian Kinsler flatting out his swing is huge too. It will make him an even better hitter this year than he was last year. I just hope he and Nelly can stay healthy.

IT was pretty obvious going in that a lot would hinge on the young pitchers. So far that aspect is looking very good.

And you are right about Kinsler. When he gets that uppe4r cut going and starts throwing his hips out way too early he has problems.

[Sam I Am]

Great pitching duel going on. The Rangers finally broke through in the 7th and punched in a run.


Hamilton walks
Beltre singles
Young doubles in Hamilton

[Sam I Am]

Nelly had a comebacker to the mount gets Beltre at home (was running on contact)

Moreland follows up with a double scoring Young!

2-0 Rangers.

Verlander is started to throw a lot more pitches now.

[windward]

That makes it 25 consecutive scoreless innings. And 1 earned run in the last 31 innings.

Impressive.

[Sam I Am]

Ranger's pitching puts up back to back goose eggs!

Rangers beat Detroit 2-0 today. Ogando pitched seven innings of two hit baseball with one walk and four strikeouts. He beat Verlander who pitched a complete game, yet still took the loss.

:yourock:

[Gzus]

Wow after 13 IP Ogando's only given up 4 hits, 3 BB, w/ 8 Ks.... Key stat 0 ER. A 0.00 ERA after two starts as a #5 starter. Talk about a solid rotation.... So much for worrying about our pitching staff, and just imagine if we can get Webb up and running (hell I might not even want him).

32 (58-26) run differential..... This team is HOT HOT HOT, and Hambone still hasn't hit one out yet..... Just you wait. The team is stacked all around, both at the plate and so far doing pretty well on the mound.

[DFWJC]

Ranger's pitching puts up back to back goose eggs!

Rangers beat Detroit 2-0 today. Ogando pitched seven innings of two hit baseball with one walk and four strikeouts. He beat Verlander who pitched a complete game, yet still took the loss.

:yourock:
The starters are doing so well we haven't had worry about middle relief.

Wash will have a tough decision when all the arms are healthy. I'd have a hard time putting Ogando back in the pen, as he really does look like a starter.

[Gzus]

Haha just saw this vid from the rain delay at Camden for the first Oriole-Rangers game. The guys made good use of the tarp on the field and had a little slip&slide fun. Looks like the guys were having some great fun. This is why I love the Rangers, they always know how to have fun.

http://www.twitvid.com/6ZGPF

[WDN]

I know its only 2 starts but if they take Ogando out for Hunter I am breaking things. I didn't think they used Ogando enough last year and always liked his work.

Enough can't be said about the early perfomances of Ogando,Harrison, and Holland. They have been truly amazing so far.

[Sam I Am]

The starters are doing so well we haven't had worry about middle relief.

Wash will have a tough decision when all the arms are healthy. I'd have a hard time putting Ogando back in the pen, as he really does look like a starter.

I just read an article today somewhere that said if Ogando keeps pitching the way he is, there is no way they can pull him out of the rotation when Hunter returns.

[Gzus]

I know its only 2 starts but if they take Ogando out for Hunter I am breaking things. I didn't think they used Ogando enough last year and always liked his work.

Enough can't be said about the early perfomances of Ogando,Harrison, and Holland. They have been truly amazing so far.
I whole heartedly agree with you. My only concern about Ogando is that he keeps having issues w/ "blisters" on his fingers. I don't know if this is a common issue with pitchers but he seems to always have those issues. If not for those "blisters" today, he had a shot to pitch a CG.

[Sam I Am]

Haha just saw this vid from the rain delay at Camden for the first Oriole-Rangers game. The guys made good use of the tarp on the field and had a little slip&slide fun. Looks like the guys were having some great fun. This is why I love the Rangers, they always know how to have fun.

http://www.twitvid.com/6ZGPF

They did that a couple of years ago at Citi Field too. (Mets)

r67YEphmYvc

It's funny, security kicks them off the field and they all go down in the dougout. Yet a few second later, they come running back out and do it again! :lmao2:

[DFWJC]

I just read an article today somewhere that said if Ogando keeps pitching the way he is, there is no way they can pull him out of the rotation when Hunter returns.
Have to agree. The guy looks dominant. He looked that way out of the pen in the later part of last season too. His era was only about 1.50 or so, from what I recall.

[Sam I Am]

Have to agree. The guy looks dominant. He looked that way out of the pen in the later part of last season too. His era was only about 1.50 or so, from what I recall.

Verlander just pitched a hell of a complete game and still got beat by Ogando. No freaking way I pull him out of the rotation! :laugh2:

[Stautner]

Verlander just pitched a hell of a complete game and still got beat by Ogando. No freaking way I pull him out of the rotation! :laugh2:


Right now Hunter has to be viewed as the "swing man", but chances are Hrrison, Ogando and/or Holland will slip or lapse or at least hit a dry spell along the way and Hunter will be needed to step in.

[Sam I Am]

I whole heartedly agree with you. My only concern about Ogando is that he keeps having issues w/ "blisters" on his fingers. I don't know if this is a common issue with pitchers but he seems to always have those issues. If not for those "blisters" today, he had a shot to pitch a CG.

He needs to play guitar so he can get callouses on those fingers!

[Sam I Am]

Rangers vs Detroit starts in about an hour.

CJ Wilson vs Brad Penny

[Sam I Am]

Already roughing up Penny. Young singles and Hamilton triples scoring Young.

Damn, now Josh out at home and hurt. (holding back) :/

[Sam I Am]

Damn, Hamilton is scratched for the rest of the game.

[WDN]

Radio is saying strained shoulder. Could be worse. Now rub some dirt on it and get back out there.

[dargonking999]

Radio is saying strained shoulder. Could be worse. Now rub some dirt on it and get back out there.

Yea because with another 140+ games we really gotta have him playing today even with you know the next two days off.

[DFWJC]

Nice manufactured run by the Rangers to go up 3-2!
Double steal to get Andrus to third. He then scored on a fielder's choice.

But Detroit is now threatening in the bottom of the 6th.

[Sam I Am]

CJ sucks this year.

[WDN]

Yea because with another 140+ games we really gotta have him playing today even with you know the next two days off.

You need to turn on your sarcasm detector.

[dargonking999]

You need to turn on your sarcasm detector.

I would if there weren't so many rampant idiots on this board. Next time include a smiley ;) they help differ sarcasm and idiocy.

[Sam I Am]

Nelly ties it at 4-4.

[Sam I Am]

I would if there weren't so many rampant idiots on this board. Next time include a smiley ;) they help differ sarcasm and idiocy.

Feeling a bit hostile today? :laugh2:

[dargonking999]

Feeling a bit hostile today? :laugh2:

Between school idiots, and board idiots, eh I'm a little grumpy lol

[DFWJC]

Oh well...

ODay coughed up the loss in the bottom of the 9th.
Detroit wins 5-4.

I'll take a record of 9-2 though :)

[Stautner]

Damn! The best we can do is 160-2 now. I hate being disappointed so early in the season.

[TheCowboy]

Damn! The best we can do is 160-2 now. I hate being disappointed so early in the season.
You're not alone.. ;)

[cowboyeric8]

CJ sucks this year.

I heard since he strained his leg in his last spring training game, he hasn't been able to have any speed on his pitches, so he has been using a variety of other pitches.

[tko112204]

Hamilton out 6-8 weeks with a fractured shoulder.

Stomach punch.

Oh, per MLB Network btw.

[Stautner]

Hamilton out 6-8 weeks with a fractured shoulder.

Stomach punch.

Oh, per MLB Network btw.

I knew it would happen. I just thought it might be a little deeper into the season.

[tko112204]

I knew it would happen. I just thought it might be a little deeper into the season.


Yeah, the dude just plays so hard.

And that body is an OLD 30.

Too bad because he's a great player and a lot of fun to watch.

And I spent 36 dollars on him in my AL only fantasy league. Bummer.

[Stautner]

Yeah, the dude just plays so hard.

And that body is an OLD 30.

Too bad because he's a great player and a lot of fun to watch.

And I spent 36 dollars on him in my AL only fantasy league. Bummer.

He will be back. Rangers should be okay for 6-8 weeks.

[cowboyeric8]

Yeah, the dude just plays so hard.

And that body is an OLD 30.

Too bad because he's a great player and a lot of fun to watch.

And I spent 36 dollars on him in my AL only fantasy league. Bummer.

I think he is always going to have injury problems. Too much alcohol and drugs for too many years. It sucks, but the Rangers can manage, Murphy can step in I expect them to call up Gentry who had a few good games last year. Hopefully he returns and ready to tear it up.

[Gzus]

Hamilton out 6-8 weeks with a fractured shoulder.

Stomach punch.

Oh, per MLB Network btw.

I've been getting broken upper arm from other places. Regardless, he's out for up to 8 weeks.... Is it killer? Yes, it hurts our team. Will it cost us the season? Very doubtful, this team is built with lots of depth and you can plug that hole with plenty of different players. You can move Moreland out in the outfield for some games, shifting Young to 1st or have Napoli play 1st. You have Murphy who can be a everyday starter for more than half of the MLB teams out there. Those are a few that come to mind. Either way we can deal with it and hope when he comes back he can stay healthy the rest of the way. IMO I think it was dumb to try for home in the first inning after already scoring a run.... but that's just me.

[tko112204]

I've been getting broken upper arm from other places. Regardless, he's out for up to 8 weeks.... Is it killer? Yes, it hurts our team. Will it cost us the season? Very doubtful, this team is built with lots of depth and you can plug that hole with plenty of different players. You can move Moreland out in the outfield for some games, shifting Young to 1st or have Napoli play 1st. You have Murphy who can be a everyday starter for more than half of the MLB teams out there. Those are a few that come to mind. Either way we can deal with it and hope when he comes back he can stay healthy the rest of the way. IMO I think it was dumb to try for home in the first inning after already scoring a run.... but that's just me.


There are a lot of options, but Mitch Moreland in the OF shouldn't be one of them. Lol.

His UZR/150 in RF in 2010 was -13.9.

That's not very good.

[WDN]

I think he is always going to have injury problems. Too much alcohol and drugs for too many years. It sucks, but the Rangers can manage, Murphy can step in I expect them to call up Gentry who had a few good games last year. Hopefully he returns and ready to tear it up.

Its Chris Davis that is being called up.

[Sam I Am]

Hamilton out 6-8 weeks with a fractured shoulder.

Stomach punch.

Oh, per MLB Network btw.

I finally got to see the play. I can't figure out what fractured the shoulder. I didn't see any type of violent contact. He landed on his chest. I can't image tagging him with the ball did it. :bang2:

He is a great player, but is always getting injured. He and Kinsler. Lets not even talk about Nelly and his damn hammy.

[Sam I Am]

Its Chris Davis that is being called up.

Said who? Davis is an in fielder. We've already got a boat load of them. Murphy will take over for Hamilton and they will just need to get a 4th out fielder. Not sure how Davis would help that.

[WDN]

Said who? Davis is an in fielder. We've already got a boat load of them. Murphy will take over for Hamilton and they will just need to get a 4th out fielder. Not sure how Davis would help that.

Chris Davis was scratched from last nights round rock game and another website dedicated to the rangers is stating this as well. Im sure Moreland will see more outfield time now and Murphy will het the majority of the starts.

[Sam I Am]

Chris Davis was scratched from last nights round rock game and another website dedicated to the rangers is stating this as well. Im sure Moreland will see more outfield time now and Murphy will het the majority of the starts.

Well, not sure how they are going to work it, but I would love to see Davis actually start hitting at the major league level. The guy is phenomenal as a defensive first basemen. You hate to see him displace Moreland at first, but I would take that defense without blinking. David Murphy is probably gone next year. (way to good to be a 4th outfielder) and I suppose with some work Moreland could become a better defensive outfielder. Of course, not sure where he would play. Borbon plays center and we don't want Mr Injury playing there. :laugh2: Moreland won't play center either and he can't unseat Hamilton and Nelly.

[WDN]

An infield of Beltre-Andrus-Kinsler-Davis could possibly be one of the best defensive infields in all of baseball. Kinsler would be the weak link but I think he is underrated a little defensively.

[Sam I Am]

An infield of Beltre-Andrus-Kinsler-Davis could possibly be one of the best defensive infields in all of baseball. Kinsler would be the weak link but I think he is underrated a little defensively.

He is pretty good except for an occasionally he gets lazy. That was Alfonso Soriano's problem too. Except he was lazy ALOT.

[DIAF]

An infield of Beltre-Andrus-Kinsler-Davis could possibly be one of the best defensive infields in all of baseball. Kinsler would be the weak link but I think he is underrated a little defensively.

It's too bad that Chris Davis is a terrible hitter.

I doubt he'll be starting much anyways.

[DFWJC]

It's too bad that Chris Davis is a terrible hitter.

I doubt he'll be starting much anyways.
Chris Davis may hit better than you think.

He was the most impressive hitter in the preseason and he absolutely earned a roster spot, but they needed the extra pitcher so he was odd man out.

Maybe he's coming around.

[WDN]

Washington has stated that he regrets rushing Davis up to the majors when they did. I think that is the main reason that they have stuck with him so long. I hope he comes through because that power is something else. I am, however, not going to be too optimistic as he has had great springs in the past only to fail in the bright lights.

Anyway. Good luck, Crush.

[DIAF]

Chris Davis may hit better than you think.

He was the most impressive hitter in the preseason and he absolutely earned a roster spot, but they needed the extra pitcher so he was odd man out.

Maybe he's coming around.

I'll believe it when I see it. He's failed 2 years in a row now. He looks like the classic "AAAA" slugger...great for AAA, but overmatched against mlb pitching. At this level he's got power and little else to offer (asides from his defense). Doesn't make good consistent contact, doesn't hit lefthanders, horrible plate discipline. If you are a big slugger with not-so-great contact rates, you HAVE to be selective at the plate. Davis is not.

[Stautner]

It's too bad that Chris Davis is a terrible hitter.

I doubt he'll be starting much anyways.

Chris Davis may hit better than you think.

He was the most impressive hitter in the preseason and he absolutely earned a roster spot, but they needed the extra pitcher so he was odd man out.

Maybe he's coming around.

Chris Davis has always been a great TC and m o=inor league hitter, but he has had plenty of chances to show something in the major leagues and so far has failed.

But who knows, Nelly was kind of the same way when he was younger, and the last few years he has become a top major league hitter. Maybe it will still come with Davis.

As nyc said, Davis is a truly outstanding defensive 1st baseman - considerably better than moreland in that department. I'm not sure he isn't Gold Glove caliber. But he still has to hit.

[Sam I Am]

Chris Davis may hit better than you think.

He was the most impressive hitter in the preseason and he absolutely earned a roster spot, but they needed the extra pitcher so he was odd man out.

Maybe he's coming around.

I agree. The Rangers almost gave up on Nelly and look at him now. He is a freaking beast. Davis like Nelly would eat up minor league pitching, but had trouble adjusting to major league pitching. Maybe he is finally maturing beyond that.

As for him being a hitter, Chris' nick name isn't Crush Davis because he is a terrible hitter.

[DFWJC]

Chris Davis has always been a great TC and m o=inor league hitter, but he has had plenty of chances to show something in the major leagues and so far has failed.

But who knows, Nelly was kind of the same way when he was younger, and the last few years he has become a top major league hitter. Maybe it will still come with Davis.

As nyc said, Davis is a truly outstanding defensive 1st baseman - considerably better than moreland in that department. I'm not sure he isn't Gold Glove caliber. But he still has to hit.
Agree.

Like I said, maybe he is coming around. Everyone seemed to be saying that his hitting was much more well-rounded now--that he was hitting all of the pitches and was showing nice patience.

You mentioned that he has had plenty of chances, but I don't see that at all.
He's only been around both mjors and minors for parts of three seasons....that's not that much. Ages 22-24 are (more often than not) developemental ages.

Anyway...hopefully he can contribute in all areas, but as you say, he surely can help with his glove.

[DIAF]

I agree. The Rangers almost gave up on Nelly and look at him now. He is a freaking beast. Davis like Nelly would eat up minor league pitching, but had trouble adjusting to major league pitching. Maybe he is finally maturing beyond that.

As for him being a hitter, Chris' nick name isn't Crush Davis because he is a terrible hitter.

Just because you can hit a baseball a mile over the fence doesn't mean you are a good hitter.

Even in the minors, Davis had a VERY troubling K:BB ratio and that's with playing AA/AAA ball in hitter's leagues. Some of you will look at his batting averages at those stops and say "See! He hit .333! He can hit!" but when you think about major league pitching and his lack of selectivity at the plate those things spell disaster. Chris Davis will never be a quality major league regular until he improves his plate discipline. Bottom line. No ifs, ands, or buts.

He is basically the Rangers' version of Jeff Francouer.

[Stautner]

Agree.

Like I said, maybe he is coming around. Everyone seemed to be saying that his hitting was much more well-rounded now--that he was hitting all of the pitches and was showing nice patience.

You mentioned that he has had plenty of chances, but I don't see that at all.
He's only been around both mjors and minors for parts of three seasons....that's not that much. Ages 22-24 are (more often than not) developemental ages.

Anyway...hopefully he can contribute in all areas, but as you say, he surely can help with his glove.

If people don't show something in parts of 3 MLB seasons they sometimes don't get another chance. What you need to understand is that I'm not talking about showing signs of being a star, I'm talking about showing signs of being any kind of major league hitter at all.

The guy has 806 major league at bats - not a small sampling at all for a guy to show he has enough promise to be excited about, but so far he has 278 strikeouts and only 200 hits.

Part of the problem is that he has gotten worse in each of his major league opportunities. Admittedly 2008 wasn't bad for a 1st time player - he did show some promise then. But 2009 was markedly worse, and 2010 worse still.

Bottom is he certainly has physical skills, but he needs to pull it together. Be more patient at the plate - don't try to pull every pitch etc ..... Those things are the key.

[Sam I Am]

Just because you can hit a baseball a mile over the fence doesn't mean you are a good hitter.

Even in the minors, Davis had a VERY troubling K:BB ratio and that's with playing AA/AAA ball in hitter's leagues. Some of you will look at his batting averages at those stops and say "See! He hit .333! He can hit!" but when you think about major league pitching and his lack of selectivity at the plate those things spell disaster. Chris Davis will never be a quality major league regular until he improves his plate discipline. Bottom line. No ifs, ands, or buts.

You know BJ Upton (30.5%), David Ortiz (27.9%), and Russell Branyan's (34.8%) strikeout to at bat ratio last year was higher than Chris Davis' (24.2%) entire minor league career combined.

Adam Dun has a career 32.7% strikeout to at bat ratio just signed a 4 year $54M deal with the Nationals.

Some players do strikeout more than others, but as long as they are effective hitters, you can take some good with the bad.

Chris Davis' OBP is .371 for his minor league career. Three of the last four years, it's been over .400. The kid is maturing as a hitter. You can see that. He just needs to get over the major league hump. I think at some point it's going to click with him. The question is, does it happen while he is a Texas Ranger, or some other team.

[DFWJC]

Everyone seemed to be saying that his hitting (this offseason) was much more well-rounded now--that he was hitting all of the pitches and was showing nice patience.

They said that was the difference this offseason.
We'll see if that holds up. Big question for sure.

DIAF seems to think that the verdict is in and that he will for sure never be a decent ML hitter. I hope that's not the case.

[DIAF]

You know BJ Upton (30.5%), David Ortiz (27.9%), and Russell Branyan's (34.8%) strikeout to at bat ratio last year was higher than Chris Davis' (24.2%) entire minor league career combined.


Strikeout to AB ratio just tells you how much a guy K's at the plate. That speaks to his ability to make contact, but not the ability to get on base. K:BB is a much better measure of how good a guy is at the plate.

As far as BJ Upton goes, that guy has been a major disappointment. If not for his speed on the basepaths and in Center, he'd be mentioned in the same breath as Jeff Francoeur.

Adam Dun has a career 32.7% strikeout to at bat ratio just signed a 4 year $54M deal with the Nationals.


Adam Dunn is also one of the most selective hitters in baseball. He walks over 100 times a year on average, and carries an OBP of over .380. He is an offensive machine, despite his bad contact.

Some players do strikeout more than others, but as long as they are effective hitters, you can take some good with the bad.


That's true, but it isn't all about strikeouts for Chris Davis. It's about his strikeouts, his lack of being able to get on base, and swinging at bad pitches and pulling everything when he does make contact. All of those add up to massive fail at the plate in the majors.


Chris Davis' OBP is .371 for his minor league career. Three of the last four years, it's been over .400. The kid is maturing as a hitter. You can see that. He just needs to get over the major league hump. I think at some point it's going to click with him. The question is, does it happen while he is a Texas Ranger, or some other team.

OBP is higher because of his batting average, which as we've seen so far isn't translating to the majors.

He's always mashed minor league and spring pitching. We aren't really going to know if he's matured as a hitter until he gets up here and succeeds.




DIAF seems to think that the verdict is in and that he will for sure never be a decent ML hitter. I hope that's not the case.

Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. But it's been two years now waiting for him to take the next step. Hopefully he'll be a different hitter this time, but I think even the most optimistic of outlooks would have to say the chances aren't much better than 50/50.

[Sam I Am]

Personally, if you can produce a .400+ OBP I don't care how you produce it. Walks or all hits; it's irrelevant.

[DIAF]

Personally, if you can produce a .400+ OBP I don't care how you produce it. Walks or all hits; it's irrelevant.

But the problem is that we are talking about him doing it facing minor league pitching in hitter-friendly leagues so far. Depends heavily on the quality of pitching you are facing; whereas plate discipline is about recognizing/controlling the strike zone, which is independent of the pitcher's ability. Relying on a hitter's BA in the minors is a less reliable predictor than looking at K:BB ratios. We aren't going to know if the BA is real until he gets up here and starts doing it.

[Sam I Am]

But the problem is that we are talking about him doing it facing minor league pitching in hitter-friendly leagues so far. Depends heavily on the quality of pitching you are facing; whereas plate discipline is about recognizing/controlling the strike zone, which is independent of the pitcher's ability. Relying on a hitter's BA in the minors is a less reliable predictor than looking at K:BB ratios. We aren't going to know if the BA is real until he gets up here and starts doing it.

Vladimir Guerrero has always had trouble with pitch recognition. He just had incredible hand-eye coordination. He didn't strikeout because he could at least get the bat on the ball and foul it.

I'm not going to argue with you about Davis. While I'm not sure he will make it in the major here with Texas, I definitely don't believe he is done yet. The kid is extremely talented in defense and in hitting. He just needs to mature more when at the plate. Patience is a virtue. A virtue that can be taught if he is willing to listen and put forth the effort. By what is being said about his this last off season, it sounds like he was listening.

The fact that your .sig says you want Romo ousted, I'm pretty sure you've already given up on Davis too.

[DIAF]

Vladimir Guerrero has always had trouble with pitch recognition. He just had incredible hand-eye coordination. He didn't strikeout because he could at least get the bat on the ball and foul it.

I'm not going to argue with you about Davis. While I'm not sure he will make it in the major here with Texas, I definitely don't believe he is done yet. The kid is extremely talented in defense and in hitting. He just needs to mature more when at the plate. Patience is a virtue. A virtue that can be taught if he is willing to listen and put forth the effort. By what is being said about his this last off season, it sounds like he was listening.

The fact that your .sig says you want Romo ousted, I'm pretty sure you've already given up on Davis too.

Vladimir Guerrero isn't a patient hitter, but he's so talented with the bat he doesn't need to be. And he has a really good K:BB ratio, because he doesn't strike out much. If its anywhere near the strike zone, he can get his bat on the ball. Chris Davis doesn't have that same kind of ability, nor do most major leaguers. Vlad is a freak. Guys that don't have that kind of ability need to be more selective, which Chris hasn't shown to be.

I don't really care about Chris Davis sticking; Texas doesn't need him and we've got enough bats at his position(s) that it doesn't really matter if he makes it or not. Obviously I'd like him to come up here and hit .280 with 35 homers but it's been 3 years now and the Rangers have largely moved on.

[Stautner]

You know BJ Upton (30.5%), David Ortiz (27.9%), and Russell Branyan's (34.8%) strikeout to at bat ratio last year was higher than Chris Davis' (24.2%) entire minor league career combined.

Adam Dun has a career 32.7% strikeout to at bat ratio just signed a 4 year $54M deal with the Nationals.

Some players do strikeout more than others, but as long as they are effective hitters, you can take some good with the bad.

Chris Davis' OBP is .371 for his minor league career. Three of the last four years, it's been over .400. The kid is maturing as a hitter. You can see that. He just needs to get over the major league hump. I think at some point it's going to click with him. The question is, does it happen while he is a Texas Ranger, or some other team.

It's not exactly fair to compare a player's minor league stats with another player's major league stats.

The reality is that it's obvious that Davis has not shown that he can be a major league hitter, adn that he has to step it up or he will find himself without a baseball career. That really isn't disputable.

That said, Davis is only 25, and his defense, power potential and minor league success suggest he is worthy keeping around and giving a chance to develop.

[dback]

Looks like this game may come down to how well our middle relief is. Dave Bush is at 71 pitches after three and Scherzer for the Tigers is at 63 and counting.

[Sam I Am]

It's not exactly fair to compare a player's minor league stats with another player's major league stats.

The reality is that it's obvious that Davis has not shown that he can be a major league hitter, adn that he has to step it up or he will find himself without a baseball career. That really isn't disputable.

That said, Davis is only 25, and his defense, power potential and minor league success suggest he is worthy keeping around and giving a chance to develop.

I noted them due to the context of the discussion.

[Sam I Am]

Two wild pitches sandwiched between three hits. Scherzer is trying to give the Rangers the game. :laugh2:

[DFWJC]

lol
Ran ourselves out of yet another inning. Murphey out trying to steal home.
I like us being agressive, but some time it's over-the-top.

2-0 Rangers!

[cowboyeric8]

lol
Ran ourselves out of yet another inning. Murphey out trying to steal home.
I like us being agressive, but some time it's over-the-top.

2-0 Rangers!

He only tried to steal home because Julio got picked off, so they took a chance.

[dback]

Ok Mr. Lowe, that fastball right down the middle is not working for you.

[Sam I Am]

Lowe already screwing this game up. Two straight doubles to start the inning. :banghead:

[cowboyeric8]

Ok Mr. Lowe, that fastball right down the middle is not working for you.

Agreed

[DFWJC]

Lowe already screwing this game up. Two straight doubles to start the inning. :banghead:
What is wrong with Lowe this year.
He is getting SHELLED every time out.

His ERA is something like 13 so far. lol

2-2...that was quick

[dback]

Nice try by Nelson, but Tigers tie it up at 2.

[WDN]

Mr. Lowe can take a flying leap.

[cowboyeric8]

Rhodes is such an old man. He acts and walks around like everything hurts.

Good inning for him though.

[dback]

Let's hope the bottom of the lineup can generate some base runners. Just get on base!!!

[dback]

This home plate umpire is really inconsistent with the outside corner, for both teams.

[dback]

Julio with single and then advances to 2nd base on a balk. Great opportunity here to get a run.

EDIT: Borbon gets to third on Sac Fly and then Andrus flies out to end inning.

[Stautner]

What is wrong with Lowe this year.
He is getting SHELLED every time out.

His ERA is something like 13 so far. lol

2-2...that was quick

This year? He was injured almost all of last year, so it's not as if he was doing great last year. Lowe has a good arm, but he is still unknown to a degree.

[dback]

Inge with a walk off HR to end the game. ARGHHH

[Sam I Am]

Hows that. Two losses in a row in the bottom of the 9th. :(

[WDN]

I think this is a huge series. I think it could make this team or could really hamper them for the year. We better win the first two if we want to win the series.

Lewis is being put on the new paternity? Leave and Kirkman is being called up for the trip to NY. He can be on the team for 72 hours before a roster move has to be made. Hopefully he does well so.that we can send Lowe down.

[Sam I Am]

This sucks. Rangers are in town and I don't think I'm going to get to go to any of the games. :mad:

[DFWJC]

I think this is a huge series. I think it could make this team or could really hamper them for the year. We better win the first two if we want to win the series.

Lewis is being put on the new paternity? Leave and Kirkman is being called up for the trip to NY. He can be on the team for 72 hours before a roster move has to be made. Hopefully he does well so.that we can send Lowe down.
About 150 games to go.
It's at Yankee Stadium in April.
One win would be fine....two even better.

[WDN]

About 150 games to go.
It's at Yankee Stadium in April.
One win would be fine....two even better.

I fully understand that and normally would agree 100%. However, with it being the yankees and without Josh I think its a different story. Not saying that if they lose two it will be the end but that it will be harder for them. On the other hand going into ny and taking two without Josh could work wonders.

Anyways go win two.

[Sam I Am]

Anyways go win two.

Eh? Screw that! I want all three!

http://onlytheblogknowsbrooklyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/400px-Broom_icon.svg_.png

[DFWJC]

Eh? Screw that! I want all three!

http://onlytheblogknowsbrooklyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/400px-Broom_icon.svg_.png (http://onlytheblogknowsbrooklyn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/400px-Broom_icon.svg_.png)
lol

One Down!

[cowboyeric8]

lol

One Down!

Thank goodness for Michael Young, only one hitting lately.

[Stautner]

Hanging tough, but losing late. Ogando looked great except 3-4 pitches that killed him. Middle of the game teams have seen the fastball enough that they can sit on it a little, Ogando will be fine if he learns to mix things up a little more.

[DFWJC]

I see the upcoming series as being bigger than the Yankee series.
Beat LA.

[Stautner]

I see the upcoming series as being bigger than the Yankee series.
Beat LA.

Division rivals are always a bit more important, and the fact the team has been losing some games late adds to the urgency a bit, but it's still mid-April, and the only thing of importance is developing some consistency regardless of opponents.

[DFWJC]

Division rivals are always a bit more important, and the fact the team has been losing some games late adds to the urgency a bit, but it's still mid-April, and the only thing of importance is developing some consistency regardless of opponents.
Yes and yes

[DIAF]

Oh look Chris Davis 2 ABs 2 Ks.

yawn.

[windward]

11-5 now. Sole possession of first again.

[cowboyeric8]

Oh look Chris Davis 2 ABs 2 Ks.

yawn.

Minor league player

[DIAF]

Minor league player

My point exactly!

[Sam I Am]

Oh look Chris Davis 2 ABs 2 Ks.

yawn.

It's funny. He said he deserved a chance. They give it to him. We are playing against a pitcher who isn't pitching well and the Rangers as a whole knock him around... err my mistake. As a whole except for Davis who goes 0fer 4 with 3 strikeouts.

That was extremely disappointing to see. I really want to see this kid succeed.

That said, it was good to see the Rangers pound the Angels, but even better to see that just maybe CJ got his groove back.

[cowboyeric8]

It's funny. He said he deserved a chance. They give it to him. We are playing against a pitcher who isn't pitching well and the Rangers as a whole knock him around... err my mistake. As a whole except for Davis who goes 0fer 4 with 3 strikeouts.

That was extremely disappointing to see. I really want to see this kid succeed.

That said, it was good to see the Rangers pound the Angels, but even better to see that just maybe CJ got his groove back.

Yeah, I just don't think Davis will ever find it. I hope to eat my crow, but I feel we are wasting at bats with him at the plate. And CJ was CJ of last year again, I don't think his leg had fully healed, he was finally throwing his fast ball up there last night.

Lewis's turn after having a baby :laugh2:

[WDN]

I agree 100% about CJ leg.

[DFWJC]

Hopefully they get that 2nd win in the series tonight.
CJ was tough last night!

[DIAF]

angels are running Palmer out there tonight, good chance for another win. Good thing we miss Haren!

[WDN]

angels are running Palmer out there tonight, good chance for another win. Good thing we miss Haren!

Still have to face Weaver...

[DIAF]

better than weaver AND haren!

[Sam I Am]

That game last night was a train wreck. They couldn't pitch, hit, and produced errors likes they were factory workers paid to make them.

That error by Murphy was absolutely horrid.

Worst thing about it was, I finally bought MLB.tv right after Kinsler got the RBI to tie the game at 1. Then they proceeded to implode and I got to watch it!

[DIAF]

Looks like Matt Harrison finally remembered that he is, in fact, actually Matt Harrison. I am officially worried about the rotation now. We need Tommy Hunter to come back STAT. I have 0 faith in Harrison or Ogando.

[DallasGirl50]

TEXAS MONTHLY magazine's cover story this month is the Rangers and Nolan...they are being crowned America's Team on the cover I think...:)

[Sam I Am]

Has a team ever went 9-1 to start the season then 1-9 the following 10 games. The Rangers have damn near done that. :bang2:

[Stautner]

Looks like Matt Harrison finally remembered that he is, in fact, actually Matt Harrison. I am officially worried about the rotation now. We need Tommy Hunter to come back STAT. I have 0 faith in Harrison or Ogando.

What are you talking about? There was nothing wrong with Harrison last night. 6.2 innings giving up 4 hits and 3 runs with 5 K's is very respectable and something we should be happy with. If this is his "off" game we should be thrilled.

It was the offense that failed us.

I don't going off on Ogondo either. He struggled giving up the long ball last game, but he has been very good overall so far.

Obviously these guys had to slow a little - did you expect Harrison, Holland and Ogando to be duking it out for the Cy Young at the end of the year?

Time will tell how they end up, but Harrison having a quality game rather than a great one seems like a waste of time to worry about.

[cowboyeric8]

What are you talking about? There was nothing wrong with Harrison last night. 6.2 innings giving up 4 hits and 3 runs with 5 K's is very respectable and something we should be happy with. If this is his "off" game we should be thrilled.

It was the offense that failed us.

I don't going off on Ogondo either. He struggled giving up the long ball last game, but he has been very good overall so far.

Obviously these guys had to slow a little - did you expect Harrison, Holland and Ogando to be duking it out for the Cy Young at the end of the year?

Time will tell how they end up, but Harrison having a quality game rather than a great one seems like a waste of time to worry about.

I agree with you. Its the flow of the season, with 162 games there are going be plenty of bad. Granted I'm a little worried if they can consistently be good, but their latest performance doesn't have me worried.

[TheCowboy]

TEXAS MONTHLY magazine's cover story this month is the Rangers and Nolan...they are being crowned America's Team on the cover I think...:)
No, but their Baseball's team!

[Stautner]

I agree with you. Its the flow of the season, with 162 games there are going be plenty of bad. Granted I'm a little worried if they can consistently be good, but their latest performance doesn't have me worried.

Exactly. Yes, there is reason to have some concern because 3 of our starting pitchers have never been in a major league rotation for an entire season, and 1 of those has never been in a major league rotation at all before this year, while the other 2 have only limited experience as a major league starter. Even our two "seasoned" have much less experience as major league starters than any other No. 1/2 combo in baseball.

So it is a little on shakey gound - or at least unknown ground. But we can't get overly concerned if they aren't stellar every game - no MLB pitcher is. There are always ups and downs, even for the guys who win Cy Youngs.

[DIAF]

What are you talking about? There was nothing wrong with Harrison last night. 6.2 innings giving up 4 hits and 3 runs with 5 K's is very respectable and something we should be happy with. If this is his "off" game we should be thrilled.

It was the offense that failed us.

I don't going off on Ogondo either. He struggled giving up the long ball last game, but he has been very good overall so far.

Obviously these guys had to slow a little - did you expect Harrison, Holland and Ogando to be duking it out for the Cy Young at the end of the year?

Time will tell how they end up, but Harrison having a quality game rather than a great one seems like a waste of time to worry about.

No, I don't expect them to be duking it out for the Cy Young, but I also know that Harrison's ceiling when he was a Braves prospect was no higher than a #3 starter and Ogando ought to be in the pen. So color me skeptical. I think that as the season wears on, we'll be thankful for Tommy Hunter's return. At least Holland has ace/#2 potential, so he's at least got pedigree.

[Corleone]

I'm not sure if there will be any room for big game hunter when he returns. Ogando is doing so well, Harrison is just great thus far. Colby seems to me like the weakest so far but we aren't moving him from the rotation. Holland would be the odd man out IF they wanted to add Hunter but we will let it play itself out. We still have Brandon Webb to look forward to hopefully.

[DIAF]

I think by the time Tommy is ready to come back, Ogando and/or Harrison will have imploded by then. I don't see Holland coming out of the rotation...he started to 'get it' late last year and seems to be taking another step forward this year so far. Like I said before, he has the pedigree so there will be more patience with him.

[Corleone]

I hope so, I really like Holland. My advice would be to move Ogando/Harrison back to the bullpen if/when Hunter earns his spot back because that has to be our weakest aspect of the team right? We have good starters, they wont LOSE us any games and we have a closer. I have zero faith in Oday and Oliver, or Kirkman for that matter. Rhodes and Strop look decent, even though Rhodes wasn't great his last outing. Apparently they are bringing Tomko up too.

[Stautner]

No, I don't expect them to be duking it out for the Cy Young, but I also know that Harrison's ceiling when he was a Braves prospect was no higher than a #3 starter and Ogando ought to be in the pen. So color me skeptical. I think that as the season wears on, we'll be thankful for Tommy Hunter's return. At least Holland has ace/#2 potential, so he's at least got pedigree.

And Cliff Lee was drafted 1 round later (4th round) than Harrison (3rd round), so that tells us early projections are etched in stone, right? Roy Oswalt was drafted in the 23rd round. Andy Petitt in the 22nd round. Hell, Jonathon Paplebon was taken in the 4th round of the same draft as Harrison.

Besides, since when is being projected as a No. 3 starter in the major leagues a negative thing? I would be thrilled with that from Harrison, Hunter or Ogondo

Look around - it's very common that MLB teams, including pitching staffs, are filled out largely by players who developed, but did not start out with elite pedigrees. Of course some do, but there are lots of players on every team that were not top players from the beginning but developed into quality players.

And, again, starting out as a 3rd round draft pick and projected as a No. 3 starer isn't exactly a bad beginning.

And, as for your fixation with "pedigree", what about all the Latin pitchers that have done so well over the years? Why not Ogondo? What do you know about his pedigree that makes it worse than anyone else coming out of Venezuela or the Dominican Repubplic or some other Latin American Country? Besides, you wrote him off after one subar performance and he came right back and threw yet another stellar game next time out.

I understand skepticism. There is always room for skepticism with players that don't have a lot of major league experience or history behind them. But there is also room for optimism, and I don't understand watching guys pitch exceptionally well over and over and not holding onto any optimism. If we were only talking about 1 or 2 outstanding games that would be one thing, but these guys have had an outstanding month.

That said, I agree that we will be happy to have Hunter back too. Certainly there is a reasonable possibility that one or more of the trio of Holland/Ogondo/Harrison will falter, and even without that there will be some injuries along the way, so Hunter will be a great insurance policy either way.

[WDN]

Tonights game scares me.

1. Colby is pitching and he is giving up the longball.

2. Have to face a redhot Bautista.

3. Facing a rookie pitcher and the first time through we tend to make them look like Cy Young.

[Sam I Am]

Tonights game scares me.

1. Colby is pitching and he is giving up the longball.

2. Have to face a redhot Bautista.

3. Facing a rookie pitcher and the first time through we tend to make them look like Cy Young.

You forgot, the Rangers defense has been like swiss cheese lately. That doesn't help. Prior to last nights game the Rangers had 9 errors in 4 games. (4, 2, 2, 1)

[DIAF]

And Cliff Lee was drafted 1 round later (4th round) than Harrison (3rd round), so that tells us early projections are etched in stone, right? Roy Oswalt was drafted in the 23rd round. Andy Petitt in the 22nd round. Hell, Jonathon Paplebon was taken in the 4th round of the same draft as Harrison.

Besides, since when is being projected as a No. 3 starter in the major leagues a negative thing? I would be thrilled with that from Harrison, Hunter or Ogondo

Look around - it's very common that MLB teams, including pitching staffs, are filled out largely by players who developed, but did not start out with elite pedigrees. Of course some do, but there are lots of players on every team that were not top players from the beginning but developed into quality players.

And, again, starting out as a 3rd round draft pick and projected as a No. 3 starer isn't exactly a bad beginning.

And, as for your fixation with "pedigree", what about all the Latin pitchers that have done so well over the years? Why not Ogondo? What do you know about his pedigree that makes it worse than anyone else coming out of Venezuela or the Dominican Repubplic or some other Latin American Country? Besides, you wrote him off after one subar performance and he came right back and threw yet another stellar game next time out.

I understand skepticism. There is always room for skepticism with players that don't have a lot of major league experience or history behind them. But there is also room for optimism, and I don't understand watching guys pitch exceptionally well over and over and not holding onto any optimism. If we were only talking about 1 or 2 outstanding games that would be one thing, but these guys have had an outstanding month.

That said, I agree that we will be happy to have Hunter back too. Certainly there is a reasonable possibility that one or more of the trio of Holland/Ogondo/Harrison will falter, and even without that there will be some injuries along the way, so Hunter will be a great insurance policy either way.


Dude, there's more to a "pedigree" than where you were drafted. This isn't football. Where you were drafted means less in baseball than it does in any other sport. As Matt Harrison moved up the minor league ranks and got closer to the majors, it was pretty apparent that he wasn't going to be the potential ace you look for in the early rounds. Matt Harrison's projected to be no higher than a #3 starter. Meaning that in the eyes of scouts, that was likely his best case scenario. Meaning there's still a pretty good chance he'll be worse than that. Derek Holland is no sure thing either, but at least was regarded as an ace/#2 starter ceiling player the closer he got to the majors. I'd say the chances of Holland being garbage are far less than Harrison's or Ogando's. Ogando's projections were to be a back-of-the-bullpen reliever or a closer, (2-pitch pitcher with one of them being an electric fastball, and mechanics that might produce some injury risk) not so much a starting pitcher.

Hunter's already had success at this level and doesn't have any of this uncertainty surrounding what kind of pitcher he is. Harrison and Ogando, there's a better-than-even chance they are going to implode as starters. I'd rather have Tommy out there than one of them.

[DIAF]

I hope so, I really like Holland. My advice would be to move Ogando/Harrison back to the bullpen if/when Hunter earns his spot back because that has to be our weakest aspect of the team right? We have good starters, they wont LOSE us any games and we have a closer. I have zero faith in Oday and Oliver, or Kirkman for that matter. Rhodes and Strop look decent, even though Rhodes wasn't great his last outing. Apparently they are bringing Tomko up too.

It is by FAR. I actually think that Ogando is our future closer....I'd like to see Feliz moved to the rotation and have Ogando take over the 9th eventually. For now, though, we could have him come in and throw nothing but 98mph gas and that great slider that murders RH batters in the 8th inning, and use Oliver/O'Day in less pressure situations. Kirkman needs to bake a bit longer. Tomko, bleh.

[Sam I Am]

It is by FAR. I actually think that Ogando is our future closer....I'd like to see Feliz moved to the rotation and have Ogando take over the 9th eventually. For now, though, we could have him come in and throw nothing but 98mph gas and that great slider that murders RH batters in the 8th inning, and use Oliver/O'Day in less pressure situations. Kirkman needs to bake a bit longer. Tomko, bleh.

I think Ogando's future will be as a starter. He is currently at 7.12 strikeouts per nine innings. A pitcher that can average over 7 strikeouts per nine innings is generally (meaning baring injuries) a long term dominating starting pitcher.

Tommy Hunter averages like 5.1 strikeouts per nine innings over his career so far. (250+ innings) That tells me, he is far less likely to be a long term dominate starter in the majors. I also don't believe Hunter has the mentality to do it.

Matt Harrison averages only 5 strikeouts per nine innings.

Derek Holland averages 7.53 strikeouts per nine innings. This kid also has a very good chance on being one of the leagues best dominate lefties.

For comparison, CJ Wilson average 8 strikeouts per nine innings. Colby Lewis averages 7.5 strikeouts per nine.

IMO, Harrison and Hunter's futures are in the bullpen. Ogando and Derek Holland will be staples in the starting rotation before it's all said and done.

As a starter, you want pitchers that can strike people out. Some excel at it and some do not. Those that do not, you don't want to be long term starters. The reason is, the opposing lineup will see that same pitcher 2-4 times during the game. The more he sees him higher the probability of the player doing damage offensively. A prolific strikeout pitcher strikes people out even when they know what is coming. That is what makes them so great and that is why you want your starting pitchers to average at least 7 strikeouts per nine innings. (7 strikeouts the bar)

[Stautner]

Dude, there's more to a "pedigree" than where you were drafted. This isn't football. Where you were drafted means less in baseball than it does in any other sport. As Matt Harrison moved up the minor league ranks and got closer to the majors, it was pretty apparent that he wasn't going to be the potential ace you look for in the early rounds. Matt Harrison's projected to be no higher than a #3 starter. Meaning that in the eyes of scouts, that was likely his best case scenario. Meaning there's still a pretty good chance he'll be worse than that. Derek Holland is no sure thing either, but at least was regarded as an ace/#2 starter ceiling player the closer he got to the majors. I'd say the chances of Holland being garbage are far less than Harrison's or Ogando's. Ogando's projections were to be a back-of-the-bullpen reliever or a closer, (2-pitch pitcher with one of them being an electric fastball, and mechanics that might produce some injury risk) not so much a starting pitcher.

Hunter's already had success at this level and doesn't have any of this uncertainty surrounding what kind of pitcher he is. Harrison and Ogando, there's a better-than-even chance they are going to implode as starters. I'd rather have Tommy out there than one of them.

So, if the pedigree you talk about isn't there, then there is no reason for optimism? There is no possibility that a player who doesn't get tabbed in Single A ball as having "ace" potential can become a strong major league pitcher? A lot of higly successful major leaguers are proof that isn't true. Once again, if you look around the major leagues, rosters are filled with guys that didn't start off as aces or the top prosspects in the system, but that developed. It's common in baseball.

Did you ever stop to wonder why there are so many rounds in the MLB draft? It's because MLB te4ams know that more than any other sport - MUCH MORE - that the development is what determines how the player will perform as much as the talent. If you don't think that's true you aren't aware of how things go in baseball.

You don't condemn a guy because early in his minor league days he was only projected as a No. 3 guy at best. If he had that as his ceiling when he was in the Braves system 3 years ago, the fact that he has pitched way beyond that, and in fact pitched like an ace for the 1st month of the season should make you damn optimistic that AT LEAST being a strong No. 3 is possible, and why in the world would you sneeze at that?

No team has the luxury of trotting out 5 pitchers that were all rated as aces from their early minor league days - if that's a qualification then nobody would ever have a strong pitching staff. Of course the odds are higher with a guy drafted higher and who somebody declares early on is a top prospect, but it is FAR from etched in stone.

And again, where is your logic witho Ogondo? He came out of a Latin American country like MANY highly successful major league pitchers have in the past - and he did so with an upper 90's fastball in tow. Why would his "pedigree" be so much below others who have come out of Latin American sountires.

As I've said, I understand skepticism - it always applies when there is little history at the major league level to judge from, and admittedly applies more so to a guy who isn't considered "ace" material. But is "ace" material really the fianl say judging point? Of course not - many teams don't even have a true ace, much less several of them. If the guy has the potential to be a solid No. 3 why in the world would anyone sneeze at that? Even if he falls short and only becomes a solid No. 4 or 5, that's still nothing to sneeze at - every team needs those.

Optimism doesn't preclude keeping a close eye on a guy, it just means recognizing what they are doing and that there is a chance they could be solid MLB players.

[Stautner]

Dude, there's more to a "pedigree" than where you were drafted. This isn't football. Where you were drafted means less in baseball than it does in any other sport. As Matt Harrison moved up the minor league ranks and got closer to the majors, it was pretty apparent that he wasn't going to be the potential ace you look for in the early rounds. Matt Harrison's projected to be no higher than a #3 starter. Meaning that in the eyes of scouts, that was likely his best case scenario. Meaning there's still a pretty good chance he'll be worse than that. Derek Holland is no sure thing either, but at least was regarded as an ace/#2 starter ceiling player the closer he got to the majors. I'd say the chances of Holland being garbage are far less than Harrison's or Ogando's. Ogando's projections were to be a back-of-the-bullpen reliever or a closer, (2-pitch pitcher with one of them being an electric fastball, and mechanics that might produce some injury risk) not so much a starting pitcher.

Hunter's already had success at this level and doesn't have any of this uncertainty surrounding what kind of pitcher he is. Harrison and Ogando, there's a better-than-even chance they are going to implode as starters. I'd rather have Tommy out there than one of them.

I think Ogando's future will be as a starter. He is currently at 7.12 strikeouts per nine innings. A pitcher that can average over 7 strikeouts per nine innings is generally (meaning baring injuries) a long term dominating starting pitcher.

Tommy Hunter averages like 5.1 strikeouts per nine innings over his career so far. (250+ innings) That tells me, he is far less likely to be a long term dominate starter in the majors. I also don't believe Hunter has the mentality to do it.

Matt Harrison averages only 5 strikeouts per nine innings.

Derek Holland averages 7.53 strikeouts per nine innings. This kid also has a very good chance on being one of the leagues best dominate lefties.

For comparison, CJ Wilson average 8 strikeouts per nine innings. Colby Lewis averages 7.5 strikeouts per nine.

IMO, Harrison and Hunter's futures are in the bullpen. Ogando and Derek Holland will be staples in the starting rotation before it's all said and done.

As a starter, you want pitchers that can strike people out. Some excel at it and some do not. Those that do not, you don't want to be long term starters. The reason is, the opposing lineup will see that same pitcher 2-4 times during the game. The more he sees him higher the probability of the player doing damage offensively. A prolific strikeout pitcher strikes people out even when they know what is coming. That is what makes them so great and that is why you want your starting pitchers to average at least 7 strikeouts per nine innings. (7 strikeouts the bar)

Strikeout aern't really such a strong judge of who will be a quality starter. It is A factor, but not the predominant factor. I would take Greg Maddux in his prime over almost any pitcher I can think of in the last 30 years.

Besides, it's way off base to treat this as a discussion about dominant starters - there are very few of those in baseball at all. We are just talking about bring a quality starter and capable of holding a prominant position in your pitching rotation.

Right now we have 6 guys that are all potential long term solutions in the rotation. Yes, some may falter, but for now there is plenty of reason for optimism.

And that's where i don't understand DIAF. How can you discount guys based on someone deciding they didn't have "ACE" potential at an early stage in his minor league career? Very few have that "ACE" potential to begin with, and no team is counting on "ACE" potential to fill out a 5 man rotation. In addition, some that become an "ACE" develop it rather than start with it. And like I said, Ogondo throws upper 90's (I've seen him reach 100 mph), so where is this lack of talent that DIAF is talking about?

Baseball is all about development. That's why there are 50 rounds in the draft and why there are elaborate minor league systems in place and why teams hire scouts to seek out talent from every corner of the contry and other countires that others may miss. Anyone paying attention knows that there are only a handlful of sure things and the rest is development.

[Stautner]

One more thing that crossed my mind - our current No. 1 and No. 2 starters (CJ and Colby) weren't ezxactly "aces" from the outset.

[Sam I Am]

Strikeout aern't really such a strong judge of who will be a quality starter. It is A factor, but not the predominant factor. I would take Greg Maddux in his prime over almost any pitcher I can think of in the last 30 years.

I'm disappointed in that response from you. You are cherry picking bringing up Greg Maddux as if he was a standard. BUT, since you did point out Greg Maddux; during his best years, he hovered right around 7 strikeouts per 9. If you throw all the *really dominating* ace pitches into a bucket over the last 10-20 years, you are basically will get one maybe two pitchers that are similar to Greg Maddux.

On the other hand current pitchers with 9 SO/9... Tim Lincicum (10.1), Felix Hernandez (8.1), CC Sabathia (7.6), Cliff Lee (7.0), Roy Halladay (6.8), Justin Verlander (8.2), Jered Weaver (7.9), Jon Lester (8.4), Ubaldo Jimenez (8.1), Roy Oswalt (7.4), David Price (7.6), Mat Latos (8.9), Cole Hamels (8.2), Clayton Kershaw (9.3), Dan Haren (7.7), CJ Wilson (8.0)...

I can keep going. It's a who's who of the best starting pitchers in baseball. Roy Halladay with the lowest at 6.8. The last four years, Halladay's SO/9 has been above 7.5. Last year it was 9.4.

Besides, it's way off base to treat this as a discussion about dominant starters - there are very few of those in baseball at all. We are just talking about bring a quality starter and capable of holding a prominant position in your pitching rotation.

By dominate starter, I'm talking someone who can win around 15 games a year. I don't specifically mean Roy Halladay, Tim Lincecum, or Felix Hernandez type pitchers.

[Sam I Am]

One more thing that crossed my mind - our current No. 1 and No. 2 starters (CJ and Colby) weren't ezxactly "aces" from the outset.

Lewis was a first round draft pick. He had the arm, he just couldn't control it.

As for CJ, he also has always had a live arm.

[Stautner]

I'm disappointed in that response from you. You are cherry picking bringing up Greg Maddux as if he was a standard. BUT, since you did point out Greg Maddux; during his best years, he hovered right around 7 strikeouts per 9. If you throw all the *really dominating* ace pitches into a bucket over the last 10-20 years, you are basically will get one maybe two pitchers that are similar to Greg Maddux.

On the other hand current pitchers with 9 SO/9... Tim Lincicum (10.1), Felix Hernandez (8.1), CC Sabathia (7.6), Cliff Lee (7.0), Roy Halladay (6.8), Justin Verlander (8.2), Jered Weaver (7.9), Jon Lester (8.4), Ubaldo Jimenez (8.1), Roy Oswalt (7.4), David Price (7.6), Mat Latos (8.9), Cole Hamels (8.2), Clayton Kershaw (9.3), Dan Haren (7.7), CJ Wilson (8.0)...

I can keep going. It's a who's who of the best starting pitchers in baseball. Roy Halladay with the lowest at 6.8. The last four years, Halladay's SO/9 has been above 7.5. Last year it was 9.4.

Okay, a little cherry picking (although there are others), but what I'm saying is being able to pitch - being an all around pitcher - is the key. There are a lot of guys who could strike out a lot more people than Halladay and others you named, but they don't have the command and instincts and mental make up to do the job, so they don't get the chance to go out and strikeout 10+ per game. Striking out 10 doesn't help that much if you give up too many walks and wild pitches.

Look at the top 50 pitchers last year. Yes, there are notables who had over 7, and even 8-9 SO per 9 innings, but the biggest category is those who had fewer than 7, and that inicludes a lot of quality major league pitchers.

Harrison is just trying to get to the point of being a complete pitcher, and it really isn't fair to compare his stats at this stage in his development to others who have already reached certain levels. He is up to 6 SO/9 innings this year. Maybe that will pick up more with time, and maybe Harrison reaches the point of being a dependable starter. Maybe he won't. The bottom line for me is actual performance, and as long as he is does an outstanding job, the more reason for optimism, and the more opportunity he should get.

By dominate starter, I'm talking someone who can win around 15 games a year. I don't specifically mean Roy Halladay, Tim Lincecum, or Felix Hernandez type pitchers.

I don't necessarily call that dominant, but I call it a quality starter. I think its way too early to start making assessments about who can give you that kind of effort year in and year out, but as long as things are going even close to the way they have been I'm darn sure willing to give Harrison, Ogando and Holland the chance to prove what they can do.

By the way, only 24 pitchers (less than one per team) had as many as 15 wins last year. 12-13 would be great for me.

[Stautner]

Lewis was a first round draft pick. He had the arm, he just couldn't control it.

As for CJ, he also has always had a live arm.

Harrison throws in the low to mid 90's (generally about 92-93 mph) - not exactly a dishrag.

Lots of live arms don't become quality pitchers.

[DIAF]

Strikeout per nine isn't a good indicator of who will be a good starting pitcher.

For instance, a lot of 8th/9th inning fireballers boast K/9 of over 8 or 9, but would make lousy starters for any number of reasons.

1. stamina
2. lack of other quality pitches/limited pitch repertoire
3. mentality
4. funky mechanics that lead to injury the more they pitch
etc, etc.


@ Stautner - I'm discounting Matt Harrison because I think he's pitching way over his head, based upon what is known about him to this point.

Im discounting Ogando because his fastball command isn't the greatest, doesn't really have a quality 3rd pitch...his greatest asset is his fastball which can range from 96-99 mph, and if he's pitching 6 or 7 innings at a time he'll be dialing that velocity down to get further into games. I think he'd be best used as a high-leverage reliever.

I agree with you about one thing though - many live arms don't become quality pitchers. In fact, I'd go as far to say the overwhelming vast majority of live arms never become quality pitchers precisely because they have a live arm. When guys figure out they can throw 90mph in high school they don't really bother learning pitches, they just keep getting stronger and blowing fastballs by inferior competition.

[DIAF]

Damnnit Colby, another homer

[dback]

and another

[dback]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand another

[Corleone]

Come on Colby! What the heck is up with him, I hope its just a phase because he was very good last year and good early this season as well.

Who do you guys think (if any) will lose their job to a guy like Hunter or Webb, even though Webb is further away than Hunter.

[Sam I Am]

Strikeout per nine isn't a good indicator of who will be a good starting pitcher.

For instance, a lot of 8th/9th inning fireballers boast K/9 of over 8 or 9, but would make lousy starters for any number of reasons.

1. stamina
2. lack of other quality pitches/limited pitch repertoire
3. mentality
4. funky mechanics that lead to injury the more they pitch
etc, etc.


Say what you want, (hell, argue as hard as you want you are dead wrong) most of the great starting pitchers in the league have great strikeouts per nine innings. There are hardly any *great* starting pitchers that have less than 7. Many starting pitchers that have less than 7, don't remain starters. Most that do, are back of the rotation guys.

Strikeouts are a MAJOR factor in great starting pitching.

I suppose, live arm wasn't exactly the term I was talking about. I meant a guy with great stuff. Movement, not necessarily a hard thrower, but they usually go hand and hand. Although Kenny Rogers (ex-Ranger) and Greg Maddux for that matter are different stories.

[DIAF]

Say what you want, (hell, argue as hard as you want you are dead wrong) most of the great starting pitchers in the league have great strikeouts per nine innings. There are hardly any *great* starting pitchers that have less than 7. Many starting pitchers that have less than 7, don't remain starters. Most that do, are back of the rotation guys.


Let's look at the top MLB career K/9 ratios (courtesy of baseball-reference.com)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/strikeouts_per_nine_career.shtml

Rank Player (age) Strikeouts per 9 IP
1. Randy Johnson 10.6098
2. Kerry Wood 10.3445
3. Pedro Martinez 10.0398
4. Nolan Ryan+ 9.5481
5. Trevor Hoffman 9.3608
6. Sandy Koufax+ 9.2775
7. Oliver Perez 9.1160
8. Jake Peavy 8.9347
9. Sam McDowell 8.8580
10. Johan Santana 8.8507
11. Arthur Rhodes 8.8062
12. Scott Kazmir 8.7446
13. Dan Plesac 8.7397
14. Hideo Nomo 8.7344
15. Lee Smith 8.7324
16. Curt Schilling 8.5998
17. Roger Clemens 8.5521
18. Josh Beckett 8.5221
19. Eric Plunk 8.4526
20. Sid Fernandez 8.4038
21. J.R. Richard 8.3667
22. David Cone 8.2838
23. A.J. Burnett 8.2335
24. Tom Gordon 8.2315
25. Mariano Rivera 8.2194


Out of the top 25 pitchers in major league history with the highest K per 9, only 8 of them can you really say were truly great starting pitchers. There's some relief pitchers in there (If K/9 were the overriding factor in who would be a good starting pitcher, how come these guys weren't starters their entire career?) and a bunch of starters i'll bet you are surprised to see.

Many starting pitchers that have less than 7, don't remain starters. Most that do, are back of the rotation guys.



All of these guys have less than 7ks per 9 innings for their careers.
Cliff Lee, sitting at #100. Roy Halladay, #120. Kevin Brown, #138. Bob Feller, #214. Greg Maddux, #217. Gaylord Perry, #251. "Back of the rotation guys", indeed.

Strikeouts are just one way to get an out.

[Sam I Am]

Let's look at the top MLB career K/9 ratios (courtesy of baseball-reference.com)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/strikeouts_per_nine_career.shtml

Rank Player (age) Strikeouts per 9 IP
1. Randy Johnson 10.6098
2. Kerry Wood 10.3445
3. Pedro Martinez 10.0398
4. Nolan Ryan+ 9.5481
5. Trevor Hoffman 9.3608
6. Sandy Koufax+ 9.2775
7. Oliver Perez 9.1160
8. Jake Peavy 8.9347
9. Sam McDowell 8.8580
10. Johan Santana 8.8507
11. Arthur Rhodes 8.8062
12. Scott Kazmir 8.7446
13. Dan Plesac 8.7397
14. Hideo Nomo 8.7344
15. Lee Smith 8.7324
16. Curt Schilling 8.5998
17. Roger Clemens 8.5521
18. Josh Beckett 8.5221
19. Eric Plunk 8.4526
20. Sid Fernandez 8.4038
21. J.R. Richard 8.3667
22. David Cone 8.2838
23. A.J. Burnett 8.2335
24. Tom Gordon 8.2315
25. Mariano Rivera 8.2194


Out of the top 25 pitchers in major league history with the highest K per 9, only 8 of them can you really say were truly great starting pitchers. There's some relief pitchers in there (If K/9 were the overriding factor in who would be a good starting pitcher, how come these guys weren't starters their entire career?) and a bunch of starters i'll bet you are surprised to see.




All of these guys have less than 7ks per 9 innings for their careers.
Cliff Lee, sitting at #100. Roy Halladay, #120. Kevin Brown, #138. Bob Feller, #214. Greg Maddux, #217. Gaylord Perry, #251. "Back of the rotation guys", indeed.

Strikeouts are just one way to get an out.

Are you stupid? I think you should re-think your argument. Wow, that was incredibly lame.

[DIAF]

Are you stupid? I think you should re-think your argument. Wow, that was incredibly lame.

Dude, no need for insults. I was merely presenting numbers to illustrate that K/9 is not the most important factor in predicting how good a starting pitcher is/will be.

I think the numbers tell the story.

The best starting pitchers keep the opposition from scoring, bottom line. Whether you do that by strikeout, ground ball, fly ball, it doesn't really matter. An out is an out.

[Sam I Am]

Dude, no need for insults. I was merely presenting numbers to illustrate that K/9 is not the most important factor in predicting how good a starting pitcher is/will be.

I think the numbers tell the story.

The best starting pitchers keep the opposition from scoring, bottom line. Whether you do that by strikeout, ground ball, fly ball, it doesn't really matter. An out is an out.

Yeah, please excuse that post. I was being an idiot last night. :bang2:

[WDN]

Tonights game scares me.

1. Colby is pitching and he is giving up the longball.

2. Have to face a redhot Bautista.

3. Facing a rookie pitcher and the first time through we tend to make them look like Cy Young.

1. Check

2. Check

3. Check up to the 6th inning.

[DIAF]

sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo yeah..............Matt Harrison............

>.>

[Sam I Am]

That was nasty. I turned it on at 2-0 in the first with no outs. I was forced to turn it off before the end of the top of the first because I didn't want to puke all over my monitor and keyboard.

[Sam I Am]

I'm confused. (I didn't see the game)

The Rangers won 7-6. There was 1 error by the Blue Jays, yet only 1 run was earned. Considering there are only four bases, how in hell was there only one earn run with seven scores and yet only one error?

If the error resulted in a grand slam, (in the park homerun) there would only be four unearned runs. How in hell do you get six unearned runs with only one error?

[DFWJC]

I didn't watch the game but assume all the runs were scored in one inning and after the last out should have been made, but was not, due to an error.

[Corleone]

Pedro Strope just got a HUGE out after the bases were loaded, anyone else starting to really love him in our bullpen?

[dback]

Strop did make up for placing two batters on base quickly. I am not too fond of Darren Oliver today.

[Corleone]

I haven't liked Oliver at all this season or last season, absolutely ridiculous. Meanwhile Franky is killing us right now.

[DIAF]

Screw the Lose Jays, they cant leave town fast enough.

[DIAF]

Sooooo......how about that Matt Harrison.......again......

I think its safe to say that the Matt Harrison implosion is well underway.

Tommy Hunter where are youuuu

[Sam I Am]

Harrison has to injured or something. I can't imagine a professional baseball player being that bad and perfectly healthy. :banghead:

[WDN]

Sooooo......how about that Matt Harrison.......again......

I think its safe to say that the Matt Harrison implosion is well underway.

Tommy Hunter where are youuuu

I think Hunter is just about ready. I believe he is going to pitch a rehab start in the minors this week.

I tried not to buy into the Harrison hype and held off for awhile. It was hard not to buy into it but now he knows its going to take more than reading books.

[WDN]

With the exception of the end of last season this team just can't play well without Hamilton. They just can't get over that mental block for some reason. I guess this is going to force us to pay that huge contract in a couple of years.

[DIAF]

God another blown lead. I hate this bullpen so much. Hopefully sticking hunter back in the rotation and using Harrison as mr. lefty in the pen will help.

[Stautner]

Strikeout per nine isn't a good indicator of who will be a good starting pitcher.

For instance, a lot of 8th/9th inning fireballers boast K/9 of over 8 or 9, but would make lousy starters for any number of reasons.

1. stamina
2. lack of other quality pitches/limited pitch repertoire
3. mentality
4. funky mechanics that lead to injury the more they pitch
etc, etc.


@ Stautner - I'm discounting Matt Harrison because I think he's pitching way over his head, based upon what is known about him to this point.

Im discounting Ogando because his fastball command isn't the greatest, doesn't really have a quality 3rd pitch...his greatest asset is his fastball which can range from 96-99 mph, and if he's pitching 6 or 7 innings at a time he'll be dialing that velocity down to get further into games. I think he'd be best used as a high-leverage reliever.

I agree with you about one thing though - many live arms don't become quality pitchers. In fact, I'd go as far to say the overwhelming vast majority of live arms never become quality pitchers precisely because they have a live arm. When guys figure out they can throw 90mph in high school they don't really bother learning pitches, they just keep getting stronger and blowing fastballs by inferior competition.

I also believed Harrison was likely pitching over his head because he had been around a little and hadn't developed any consistency in the past. All I was saying is that he had pitched well enough for enough games that there was reason to hold out hope and room for optimism because players do develop over time. That's the entire point of the minor league system. If that weren't true the minor league system would be a waste of time.

Ogondo, on the other hand, had no history other then a partial season as a successful short reliever. It was known that he had a fastball that could reach 100 mph, so I didn't understand suggesting he had no pedigree. What more pedigree do you need than being able to consistently throw your fastball between 94-98 mph? If you have that then it's just a matter of developing off speed alternnatives and developing mentally as a pitcher. A lot of other latin pitchers with a good arm and no United States pedigree have been able to do it, so what do we know about Ogondo that would tell us he can't do the same?

[DIAF]

I also believed Harrison was likely pitching over his head because he had been around a little and hadn't developed any consistency in the past. All I was saying is that he had pitched well enough for enough games that there was reason to hold out hope and room for optimism because players do develop over time. That's the entire point of the minor league system. If that weren't true the minor league system would be a waste of time.

Ogondo, on the other hand, had no history other then a partial season as a successful short reliever. It was known that he had a fastball that could reach 100 mph, so I didn't understand suggesting he had no pedigree. What more pedigree do you need than being able to consistently throw your fastball between 94-98 mph? If you have that then it's just a matter of developing off speed alternnatives and developing mentally as a pitcher. A lot of other latin pitchers with a good arm and no United States pedigree have been able to do it, so what do we know about Ogondo that would tell us he can't do the same?

I think you have forgotten, its been a couple of pages but I said that Ogando is regarded as a high-ceiling releiver but didn't profile really as a starter due to several issues i mentioned - fastball command, stamina, lack of a third pitch, etc. Those types are best suited to come in guns blazing for an inning or two. Developing useful third and fourth pitches and getting the mental aspect down is the hardest part, there's no "just a matter of" about it. Throwing hard is the easiest part, hard throwers are a dime a dozen.

So in the last week or two Harrison has reverted back to his old self.
Ogando is still doing well, hopefully it will last but I have my doubts.
Holland has regressed as well. But since Holland has that top-prospect pedigree, he'll get a longer look than Harrison will. Honestly I can't wait till we finally stop goofing around and just put feliz in the rotation where he belongs and have Scheppers/Ogando fight it out for the end-game. And have Harrison in the pen, maybe he'll be more successful there.

[dback]

God another blown lead. I hate this bullpen so much. Hopefully sticking hunter back in the rotation and using Harrison as mr. lefty in the pen will help.

Yes, but Darren Oliver had a masterful, one-pitch inning. :bang2:

I hope Neftali heals fast.

[Stautner]

I think you have forgotten, its been a couple of pages but I said that Ogando is regarded as a high-ceiling releiver but didn't profile really as a starter due to several issues i mentioned - fastball command, stamina, lack of a third pitch, etc. Those types are best suited to come in guns blazing for an inning or two. Developing useful third and fourth pitches and getting the mental aspect down is the hardest part, there's no "just a matter of" about it. Throwing hard is the easiest part, hard throwers are a dime a dozen.

So in the last week or two Harrison has reverted back to his old self.
Ogando is still doing well, hopefully it will last but I have my doubts.
Holland has regressed as well. But since Holland has that top-prospect pedigree, he'll get a longer look than Harrison will. Honestly I can't wait till we finally stop goofing around and just put feliz in the rotation where he belongs and have Scheppers/Ogando fight it out for the end-game. And have Harrison in the pen, maybe he'll be more successful there.

I agree that "it's just a matter of" is minimiing what it takes, but you act as if all hard throwers who end up having success in the major leagues had command of their fastballs and a full repertoire of pitches from day one. That's simply not the case. People who have 95+ fastballs rely on that until they are forced to learn more, and many of them struggle early in their careers and don't figure out a 3rd pitch until several years in the pros. Look at Koufax. Look at Ryan. Lok at Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling. They all went from hard throwers who were inconsistent to being ace pitchers as they gained control of their pitches and learned how to pitch and developed other pitches. That's the norm with hard thrwong pitchers who find success, not an aberration. It seems to me that you are condeming Ogondo by saying pitchers can't do somethng that history has proven they can.

I just think you rely too much on somebody's early career prognosis about players rather than giving players a chance to develop. Again, the entire minor league system is based on the tried and true knowledge that players can and do develop over time, and can and do develop much beyond whatever early prediction was placed on them.

When a player has big time power, but strikes out too much, teams don't give up on him and assume he can't improve his eye and his plate discipline, they try to develop him into a better all around hitter so that the big power can be used in the lineup. Same for a hard throwing pitcher - they don't just assume he can't develop other pitches improve his control and learn to set up batters and move the ball around, they work with him to see how he can develop.

[Sam I Am]

They said Ogando's actively developing his changeup. That would give him a fastball, sliders and a changeup. I just don't think he is throwing it that often right now. He hasn't built up his confidence with it yet. Though I think two starts ago he got two strikeouts with the changeup.

On top of that, Maddux was teaching Ogando a spliter. From what I've heard he has only thrown that spliter to lefties and not to many strikes with it.

[Sam I Am]

I agree that "it's just a matter of" is minimiing what it takes, but you act as if all hard throwers who end up having success in the major leagues had command of their fastballs and a full repertoire of pitches from day one. That's simply not the case. People who have 95+ fastballs rely on that until they are forced to learn more, and many of them struggle early in their careers and don't figure out a 3rd pitch until several years in the pros. Look at Koufax. Look at Ryan. Lok at Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling. They all went from hard throwers who were inconsistent to being ace pitchers as they gained control of their pitches and learned how to pitch and developed other pitches. That's the norm with hard thrwong pitchers who find success, not an aberration. It seems to me that you are condeming Ogondo by saying pitchers can't do somethng that history has proven they can.


Another one: Roy Halladay

Roy's third year in the big leagues produce 19 games, 4-7 record and a 10.64 ERA. That was the worst in history for a pitcher that pitched at least 50 innings. It wasn't till Roy's 5th season that he righted the ship to the point that he became a boniface ace going 19-7 with a 2.93 ERA.

Ogando with basically only two pitches over 5 games (31 innings) averaging 6.08 strikeouts per 9 innings a WHIP of 0.86 and a BAA of .171 and an ERA of 2.30, I personally don't see how anyone can condemn him as a future starter right now. Especially since he is actively developing a 3rd and a 4th pitch. As for not having stamina? That is a lame excuse. Ogando is only 27. He is at the peak of his maturity phyically. He can build stamina. He is averaging just short of 7 inning per game now. (6.2)

[Stautner]

Another one: Roy Halladay

Roy's third year in the big leagues produce 19 games, 4-7 record and a 10.64 ERA. That was the worst in history for a pitcher that pitched at least 50 innings. It wasn't till Roy's 5th season that he righted the ship to the point that he became a boniface ace going 19-7 with a 2.93 ERA.

Ogando with basically only two pitches over 5 games (31 innings) averaging 6.08 strikeouts per 9 innings a WHIP of 0.86 and a BAA of .171 and an ERA of 2.30, I personally don't see how anyone can condemn him as a future starter right now. Especially since he is actively developing a 3rd and a 4th pitch. As for not having stamina? That is a lame excuse. Ogando is only 27. He is at the peak of his maturity phyically. He can build stamina. He is averaging just short of 7 inning per game now. (6.2)

Bingo. And as for his age, remember that the reason he is just getting to the big leagues isn't because he was slow to develop, it's because he had a problem getting a visa to come to the US, and that's what delayed his development. He has actually only been in the United States about 15 months, and look what he is doing already.

[DIAF]

I didn't say you had to be AWESOME your first day in the bigs. Of course all these guys are still developing, but scouts and talent evaluators do a good job of profiling what kind of players these guys are and what roles they need to be put in to succeed. And you have to remember, when these guys come up to the bigs generally they've done a good chunk of their development already.

In Roy Halladay's case, he was ticketed as an elite pitching prospect way back in the late 90s, and I remember a lot of people getting impatient with him as he seemed to not be taking the next step. He was a 1st round draft pick and was compared to guys like Kevin Brown and Mike Mussina. It's not like the talent evaluators were wrong; they were right 100%. It just took Roy a little longer than they expected him to get there.

In Matt Harrison's case (like I said before) as he got closer to the show the Braves personnel department realized he was a maybe 3, probably 4 or 5 rotation guy. And he's been here what, 3 years or so now and has never demonstrated any sort of top-middle rotation ability (a couple of good games doesn't count, any pitcher can have a couple of good games).

In Ogando's case, he profiles to be an elite bullpen back-end guy. If he stretches out as a starter, its going to take some MPH off his fastball and generally make his other pitches way less effective. His second turn through the AL i would imagine him to be far less successful than he is currently. I hope not though.

Personnel departments of major league clubs set the pedigree for these guys. Sometimes they are wrong, but for the most part they profile players correctly. That's why i'm not real rosy on Matt Harrison, and why I think Ogando won't fare as well in the rotation as he does in the pen. A fully developed Tanner Scheppers and Ogando at the back end of the pen with Feliz in the rotation, yes please.

[Stautner]

I didn't say you had to be AWESOME your first day in the bigs. Of course all these guys are still developing, but scouts and talent evaluators do a good job of profiling what kind of players these guys are and what roles they need to be put in to succeed. And you have to remember, when these guys come up to the bigs generally they've done a good chunk of their development already.

In Roy Halladay's case, he was ticketed as an elite pitching prospect way back in the late 90s, and I remember a lot of people getting impatient with him as he seemed to not be taking the next step. He was a 1st round draft pick and was compared to guys like Kevin Brown and Mike Mussina. It's not like the talent evaluators were wrong; they were right 100%. It just took Roy a little longer than they expected him to get there.

In Matt Harrison's case (like I said before) as he got closer to the show the Braves personnel department realized he was a maybe 3, probably 4 or 5 rotation guy. And he's been here what, 3 years or so now and has never demonstrated any sort of top-middle rotation ability (a couple of good games doesn't count, any pitcher can have a couple of good games).

In Ogando's case, he profiles to be an elite bullpen back-end guy. If he stretches out as a starter, its going to take some MPH off his fastball and generally make his other pitches way less effective. His second turn through the AL i would imagine him to be far less successful than he is currently. I hope not though.

Personnel departments of major league clubs set the pedigree for these guys. Sometimes they are wrong, but for the most part they profile players correctly. That's why i'm not real rosy on Matt Harrison, and why I think Ogando won't fare as well in the rotation as he does in the pen. A fully developed Tanner Scheppers and Ogando at the back end of the pen with Feliz in the rotation, yes please.

No, you didn't say they had to be AWESOME, but you did very clearly suggest that not having a good 3rd pitch and lacking great control on the fastball indicates a guy isn't likely to work out as a starter, and what we have pointed out is that this is a false notion because many outrstanding pitchers started with these very same traits.

Hell, by this standard C.J. Wilson could never have become a quality starter.

I know you said earlier C.J. is different because he always had a lively arm, but I'm not sure how his 93-94 mph fasteball makes his arm livlier than Ogondo's 95-98 mph fastball.

I just think you are way too dependent on letting others think for you rather than recognizing how things really work, evaluating for yourself from what actually happens, and realizing that what people become is what they actually do, and not what someone believed early in their career they would do. Yes scouts and coaches are in a good position and have a good background to make choices and projections, but those same scouts and coaches will tell you their projections aren't set in stone, and that it's common for players to do more or less or to end up in different roles than initially projected.

What initial projections are is just a best guess based on early evidence and perceptions. Teams have to do this because they have to have some plan to start with rather than fly by the seat of their pants. What you seem to miss is that players evolve, and along with them team projections and expectations evolve.

Besides, Ogondo is only in his second year in the United States. He did not get a career defining projection the second he stepped off the plane. The team felt that at least early on relieving was the best way to go to acclimate him to baseball in the minor leagues and the USA, but that was not intended to be an eternal condemnation of his ability to be a starter.

[DIAF]

No, you didn't say they had to be AWESOME, but you did very clearly suggest that not having a good 3rd pitch and lacking great control on the fastball indicates a guy isn't likely to work out as a starter, and what we have pointed out is that this is a false notion because many outrstanding pitchers started with these very same traits.


Yeah, many outstanding pitchers started with those very same traits...when they were 18 or 19 years old. Ogando is 27.


Hell, by this standard C.J. Wilson could never have become a quality starter.

I know you said earlier C.J. is different because he always had a lively arm, but I'm not sure how his 93-94 mph fasteball makes his arm livlier than Ogondo's 95-98 mph fastball.


nyc was talking about CJ, not me. CJ Wilson throws something like 5 pitches. And there's a LOT of difference between a low 90s fastball and a 97mph fastball.


I just think you are way too dependent on letting others think for you rather than recognizing how things really work, evaluating for yourself from what actually happens, and realizing that what people become is what they actually do, and not what someone believed early in their career they would do.


Thanks for the insult. Just go ahead and call me a lemming and stop dancing around it.

So you think you know more as a fan than professional scouts and coaches?


Yes scouts and coaches are in a good position and have a good background to make choices and projections, but those same scouts and coaches will tell you their projections aren't set in stone, and that it's common for players to do more or less or to end up in different roles than initially projected.


Again, I trust the professional opinion of major league scouts and coaches and personnel departments more than my own, or those of other fans. If we knew as much as they did, we'd be scouts and coaches and personnel men.



What initial projections are is just a best guess based on early evidence and perceptions. Teams have to do this because they have to have some plan to start with rather than fly by the seat of their pants. What you seem to miss is that players evolve, and along with them team projections and expectations evolve.


Oh, thanks for telling me that players evolve. I had always wondered what those minor leagues were for! Now I know!
One of the players we are talking about here (Matt Harrison) is already 25, has been in the majors for most of 4 seasons now, and has 6 years of minor league experience where he showed that he was not a big strikeout pitcher, was a hittable finesse lefty. He's been developing for 8 or 9 years now. I think they've got good idea about him already. He's mostly finished with his evolving. Is it possible for a player to suddenly become great at age 25/26 after not showing much of that kind of ability the 8 years previous? Sure. Likely? No.



Besides, Ogondo is only in his second year in the United States. He did not get a career defining projection the second he stepped off the plane. The team felt that at least early on relieving was the best way to go to acclimate him to baseball in the minor leagues and the USA, but that was not intended to be an eternal condemnation of his ability to be a starter.

As mentioned before, Ogando's 27. He's not young. He's already matured physically. He's been a pitcher now for 5 years playing winter ball, Dominican Leagues, and any International tournament the Rangers could get him in to. Its not like the first time the Rangers have seen him was the second he stepped off the plane.

[Sam I Am]

What the hell is up with Ogando and that stupid blister?!?!? :laugh2:

[WDN]

Well, last year the theme was "Its Time". This year it looks like it should be "The starting pitchers have to throw a complete game or our sorry excuse for a so called bullpen is going to blow it for us and we can't hit in crucial situations to save our lives so we will either score a ton of runs or lose with only scoring 3 runs".

[Stautner]

As mentioned before, Ogando's 27. He's not young. He's already matured physically. He's been a pitcher now for 5 years playing winter ball, Dominican Leagues, and any International tournament the Rangers could get him in to. Its not like the first time the Rangers have seen him was the second he stepped off the plane.

Yes, he's matured physically, and he has one of the strongest arms in the entire Ranger's orgainization. I'm not aware of anyone saying he doesn't have the physical gifts, are you? If he were 27 and were physically undeveloped you would have a point, but as it is I don't see a point at all.

As for development as a player, I'm not sure what kind of MLB path of development you thought the Rangers could put him on by seeing him throw 15-30 ininngs a year in the Dominican Summer Leagues before he got off the plane in the United States, but a year ago was the first time they were able to even get him in their minor league system, and they felt good enough about him that Ogando only spent about 2 months in the minor leagues and was bumped to the major leagues in June. In addition, he was relied on to play a key role in a playoff run, and in the playoffs and World Series, and all this in just his very first year in the United States. That hardly indicates a lack of confidence.

So yes, they had "seen him" before he got off the plane, and once he got off the plane he was promoted from Double A to Triple A to the majors so fast that the fans in Frisco and Oklahoma City only had to blink and he was gone.

Now they are seeing how much further he can go, and it shows a hell of a lot of confidence to put a guy in his position with only 2 months of minor league baseball under his belt. Obviously it remains to be seen how he will hold up over the long haul, and likely he will wear down some this year if he continues to start in that he will be asked to throw dramatically more innings than he is used to, but there is more than ample reason to be optimistic.

By the way, he threw another outstanding game last night. So far in 6 starts he has a 3-0 record and a 2.17 ERA. I don't know about you, but that looks like a pretty good reason for optimism to me.