Hutch Injured. Now what???

[Cajuncowboy]

If Hutch is injured after being allocated By the COwboys to NFLE and he can't play, do we have to offer him an injury settlement and how would that effect our cap.

Cowboys | Hutchinson Sacked, Possibly Injured in NFLE - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 24 May 2004 20:35:07 -0700

Nick Eatman, of DallasCowboys.com, reports Dallas Cowboys QB Chad Hutchinson (shoulder), currently allocated to the Rhine Fire of NFL Europe, may have suffered a shoulder injury to his throwing arm during the Fire's 7-6 loss to the Cologne Centurions Sunday, May 23. Hutchinson completed just 11-of-26 passes for 94 yards with no touchdowns and one interception in the game. He was also sacked five times and had three fumbles, one of which was lost. The apparent shoulder injury seemed to affect his play in the second half when Hutchinson began throwing off his back foot.

[Hostile]

If Hutch is injured after being allocated By the COwboys to NFLE and he can't play, do we have to offer him an injury settlement and how would that effect our cap.

Cowboys | Hutchinson Sacked, Possibly Injured in NFLE - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 24 May 2004 20:35:07 -0700

Nick Eatman, of DallasCowboys.com, reports Dallas Cowboys QB Chad Hutchinson (shoulder), currently allocated to the Rhine Fire of NFL Europe, may have suffered a shoulder injury to his throwing arm during the Fire's 7-6 loss to the Cologne Centurions Sunday, May 23. Hutchinson completed just 11-of-26 passes for 94 yards with no touchdowns and one interception in the game. He was also sacked five times and had three fumbles, one of which was lost. The apparent shoulder injury seemed to affect his play in the second half when Hutchinson began throwing off his back foot.
Just freaking great. He was supposedly keeping it moving at half time. Wonder hwo serious it is.

No trade bait, they may have to put him on IR. Need for a vet just got more evident if this is true.

[David]

Vinny! Bill is on the phone. He said something about Jerry wanting to talk to you.

[Cajuncowboy]

Just freaking great. He was supposedly keeping it moving at half time. Wonder hwo serious it is.

No trade bait, they may have to put him on IR. Need for a vet just got more evident if this is true.

Now we won't even get what we got for Hamhead. Which was nothing. Now we will get less than nothing.
We want Kurt! We want Kurt! We want Kurt!

:)

[Jimz31]

No vet will be brought in IMO. IF he is put on the IR, which I doubt, we will go with Carter, Romo, and Henson. I could see the backup being either Romo or Henson.

Let's not jump to extremes here, he still played in the second half with the injury, I doubt that it is that serious.

[CapnComeback]

If Hutch is injured after being allocated By the COwboys to NFLE and he can't play, do we have to offer him an injury settlement and how would that effect our cap.

Cowboys | Hutchinson Sacked, Possibly Injured in NFLE - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 24 May 2004 20:35:07 -0700

Nick Eatman, of DallasCowboys.com, reports Dallas Cowboys QB Chad Hutchinson (shoulder), currently allocated to the Rhine Fire of NFL Europe, may have suffered a shoulder injury to his throwing arm during the Fire's 7-6 loss to the Cologne Centurions Sunday, May 23. Hutchinson completed just 11-of-26 passes for 94 yards with no touchdowns and one interception in the game. He was also sacked five times and had three fumbles, one of which was lost. The apparent shoulder injury seemed to affect his play in the second half when Hutchinson began throwing off his back foot.

Oh a shoulder injury. I was guessing it was vaginitis or something but anyway, this isn't even a loss.

We weren't going to get anything for a healthy Hutchinson let alone an injured Hutchinson. Calm down, everyone.

[Kangaroo]

We have the cap room this year so keeping him would not hurt and gives us a way to carry him and not expose Romo to the PS

You never know he may still be a vilable backup option next year or have trade value come summer time next year

[Duane]

We don't do anything because Hutch was a goner before he went to Europe. Romo has spent a year in the system and IMHO be a very good backup for us.

[TheHustler]

Now we won't even get what we got for Hamhead. Which was nothing. Now we will get less than nothing.
We want Kurt! We want Kurt! We want Kurt!

:)

no we dont! no we dont! no we dont!

[jdnalls]

If Hutch is injured after being allocated By the COwboys to NFLE and he can't play, do we have to offer him an injury settlement and how would that effect our cap.

Cowboys | Hutchinson Sacked, Possibly Injured in NFLE - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 24 May 2004 20:35:07 -0700

Nick Eatman, of DallasCowboys.com, reports Dallas Cowboys QB Chad Hutchinson (shoulder), currently allocated to the Rhine Fire of NFL Europe, may have suffered a shoulder injury to his throwing arm during the Fire's 7-6 loss to the Cologne Centurions Sunday, May 23. Hutchinson completed just 11-of-26 passes for 94 yards with no touchdowns and one interception in the game. He was also sacked five times and had three fumbles, one of which was lost. The apparent shoulder injury seemed to affect his play in the second half when Hutchinson began throwing off his back foot.
Wow. Sounds a lot like McNabb and his mysterious injuries when he loses.

[Hostile]

Oh a shoulder injury. I was guessing it was vaginitis or something but anyway, this isn't even a loss.

We weren't going to get anything for a healthy Hutchinson let alone an injured Hutchinson. Calm down, everyone.
I'm sorry, but that was just freaking hilarious.

[cowboyfan4life_mark]

Wow. Sounds a lot like McNabb and his mysterious injuries when he loses.
I was kind of thinking the same thing. Ya know, this is why he threw the last minute interception.
And since I'm typing, why would he walk off of the field ahead of everyone? The game clock wasn't expired yet either. Not trying to read anything into that, just thought that it was strange.

[Nors]

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Ya know, this is why he threw the last minute interception.
And since I'm typing, why would he walk off of the field ahead of everyone? The game clock wasn't expired yet either. Not trying to read anything into that, just thought that it was strange.

The biggest DT and LB knocked the crap out of me on a running play. I was half knocked out, got up and feigned a sore ankle to get the stars cleaned out. I was just an undersized sophomore at the time who got clocked.

Got a breather and went back in a few plays later. Thats dead what happened to Chad. He's getting the crap beat out of him. Further slowing down his thought process in the pocket. He's toast.

[jdnalls]

Now we won't even get what we got for Hamhead. Which was nothing. Now we will get less than nothing.
We want Kurt! We want Kurt! We want Kurt!

:)
To hell with Kurt. Don't want him. Don't need him.

[Im_Rick_James]

The biggest DT and LB knocked the crap out of me on a running play. I was half knocked out, got up and feigned a sore ankle to get the stars cleaned out. I was just an undersized sophomore at the time who got clocked.

Got a breather and went back in a few plays later. Thats dead what happened to Chad. He's getting the crap beat out of him. Further slowing down his thought process in the pocket. He's toast.

the only ball youve played was in your back yard loser.

[stag hunter]

romo as our 2nd stringer? i live up in dc (deadskins territory) so i dont get the preseason games or camp coverage. whats the deal with him? pro's and con's? i caught round 2 vs the skins here last year and seeing him warm up i wouldnt guess he's the most mobile of qb's. i'd be interested to hear people's assessment of him.

[Batman]

This would be a good time to cut him. He will never be anything anyway. At least now that he injured he wont fumble the ball. Let some other team have him. Id rathar see Henson getting snaps and even Romo than Hutch. With more snaps they get the better chance we get at seein a real QB in Dallas. Hutch is about to get dumped now we just have to dump QuINTcy too and then things will be lookin good.

[Hostile]

This would be a good time to cut him. He will never be anything anyway. At least now that he injured he wont fumble the ball. Let some other team have him. Id rathar see Henson getting snaps and even Romo than Hutch. With more snaps they get the better chance we get at seein a real QB in Dallas. Hutch is about to get dumped now we just have to dump QuINTcy too and then things will be lookin good.
If he is injured too badly we can't cut him. NFLPA Union regulations dictate it.

[Batman]

If he is injured too badly we can't cut him. NFLPA Union regulations dictate it.


How about trading him. Im sure some team would give us a bottle of Gatorade for him.

[George]

the only ball youve played was in your back yard loser.
You meant bathtub didn't you?

[jterrell]

We have the cap room this year so keeping him would not hurt and gives us a way to carry him and not expose Romo to the PS

You never know he may still be a vilable backup option next year or have trade value come summer time next year
His contract runs out so it would be meaningless for us to keep him all year.

We'd be better off trading him to a team for a guy they are going to cut in the last few cuts and letting them rehab him knowing they need to resign him in the off-season.

[Batman]

the only ball youve played was in your back yard loser.




Nors has just been insulted.

[jterrell]

If he is injured too badly we can't cut him. NFLPA Union regulations dictate it.

They can cut him, they just have to pay him. His contract is only one year so they would have to pay the whole thing unless he agreed to take less so he could start picking out a new team.

[Hostile]

They can cut him, they just have to pay him. His contract is only one year so they would have to pay the whole thing unless he agreed to take less so he could start picking out a new team.
That is an injury settlement more than a waiver, but I get your drift. So that begs me to ask a question or two. Are you under the impression that Jerry and Bill hate Hutch? Is he just too expensive to keep around?

You see, the reason I ask that is if he is injured after spending time in NFLE it actually does not make sense to just cut him. He can be placed on IR and then still be able to re-habilitate himself. They can even send him back to NFLE next year for one last experiment.

I don't like the guy either but I think a lot fo the Hutch hate just says "axe him" when it may not make the best sense for the team to do that. I think Valley Ranch may still feel that he has some value even if it is future trade bait.

If he is healthy then it is a different story. I think he is probably gone then. No question about it. If he is injured then a highly doubt it.

[MichaelWinicki]

the only ball youve played was in your back yard loser.


Hey, hey, hey IRJ. Cut that **** out.

Don't you know there are only a few people on this board "allowed" to bust on Norsey and pal you don't make the list.

Resubmit your application next year and we'll consider you...

Till then play nice.

[jterrell]

That is an injury settlement more than a waiver, but I get your drift. So that begs me to ask a question or two. Are you under the impression that Jerry and Bill hate Hutch? Is he just too expensive to keep around?

You see, the reason I ask that is if he is injured after spending time in NFLE it actually does not make sense to just cut him. He can be placed on IR and then still be able to re-habilitate himself. They can even send him back to NFLE next year for one last experiment.

I don't like the guy either but I think a lot fo the Hutch hate just says "axe him" when it may not make the best sense for the team to do that. I think Valley Ranch may still feel that he has some value even if it is future trade bait.

If he is healthy then it is a different story. I think he is probably gone then. No question about it. If he is injured then a highly doubt it.

I dont hate Hutch at all. I think he has a solid long term NFL future but it may be another 2 years away and that is if he gets practice reps this year as a scout team QB somewhere.

It is in Hutch's best interest to be released. If he misses camp he falls behind Romo for certian and any QB brought in to be the veteran presence. Hutch realized he was auditionning for 31 other teams over in NFLE and he made that statement public. It does him no good to rehab as the 4th guy in line here if he can catch on with some team who views him something more than that and maybe as highly as Coslet did.

QBs are graded differently as we all know quite well. Some team may deem Hutch a perfect backup type guy after the rehab. Maybe a Cardinals or Rams. Whoever it is they wouldnt deem it necessary to trade for him now but they would like to say sign him and control his rehab and development this year. So they could grab him in a trade of guys likely to be among the last guys cut and obtain his rights.

Hutch is a hard worker and has physical tools. He isnt a bad guy at all. He just needs to play football all the time. I hope he goes back to NFLE next year and really dominates. Then perhaps he can hold down a backup job somewhere and really learn a system before he takes the field. Somewhere with a good OL and a decent running attack would help a lot.

We wouldnt be having this discussion at all had Dallas not went brain dead and playing him so many snaps as a rookie. He would have 4 more years here under contract and likely would be a lock for the roster and perhaps for the backup job itself. Contracts work in nasty ways towards roster status.

[jterrell]

That is an injury settlement more than a waiver, but I get your drift. So that begs me to ask a question or two. Are you under the impression that Jerry and Bill hate Hutch? Is he just too expensive to keep around?

You see, the reason I ask that is if he is injured after spending time in NFLE it actually does not make sense to just cut him. He can be placed on IR and then still be able to re-habilitate himself. They can even send him back to NFLE next year for one last experiment.

I don't like the guy either but I think a lot fo the Hutch hate just says "axe him" when it may not make the best sense for the team to do that. I think Valley Ranch may still feel that he has some value even if it is future trade bait.

If he is healthy then it is a different story. I think he is probably gone then. No question about it. If he is injured then a highly doubt it.

Oh and Dallas has a training staff and employees to work rehabs but those guys are often spread thin. Why spend a year on that when Hutch is a free agent after the season? You are spending your resources to carry a guy all year who very likely wont be back.

We cant send him to NFLE next year because he wont be under contract for us.

If he is a free agent he could opt to go on his own but it would make more sense for another team to snag him THIS year, teach him their system and then send him next off-season so he gets more experience without losing the time needed to learn their system.

Its not about money. Dallas has already spent the casht hey signed Hutch too. He got the bonus and escalated yearly salaries. They might recoup a small percenatge by agreeing to release him so he has a year to find a team but thats about it.

If you were Hutch what would you want? Stay here on IR or be freed to go elsewhere and perhaps grab some late season action as a backup?

The Coslet stuff drained QC and got ugly. He was given new life with a new coach. The Boys arent making any coaches changes but Hutch could get new life with another team.

[Hostile]

I dont hate Hutch at all. I think he has a solid long term NFL future but it may be another 2 years away and that is if he gets practice reps this year as a scout team QB somewhere.

It is in Hutch's best interest to be released. If he misses camp he falls behind Romo for certian and any QB brought in to be the veteran presence. Hutch realized he was auditionning for 31 other teams over in NFLE and he made that statement public. It does him no good to rehab as the 4th guy in line here if he can catch on with some team who views him something more than that and maybe as highly as Coslet did.

QBs are graded differently as we all know quite well. Some team may deem Hutch a perfect backup type guy after the rehab. Maybe a Cardinals or Rams. Whoever it is they wouldnt deem it necessary to trade for him now but they would like to say sign him and control his rehab and development this year. So they could grab him in a trade of guys likely to be among the last guys cut and obtain his rights.

Hutch is a hard worker and has physical tools. He isnt a bad guy at all. He just needs to play football all the time. I hope he goes back to NFLE next year and really dominates. Then perhaps he can hold down a backup job somewhere and really learn a system before he takes the field. Somewhere with a good OL and a decent running attack would help a lot.

We wouldnt be having this discussion at all had Dallas not went brain dead and playing him so many snaps as a rookie. He would have 4 more years here under contract and likely would be a lock for the roster and perhaps for the backup job itself. Contracts work in nasty ways towards roster status.
You misunderstood. I did not say you hate Hutch. I said there are some here who hate him so badly that releasing him is the ONLY option that will satisfy.

From all I've gathered it all stems from "Hard Knocks" and him singing badly with Richmond Flowers. I don't want to believe that the hatred of him is rooted solely in him briefly replacing Q as starter.

I realize there are some tense issues between the 2 camps that contribute.

I am not a fan of his by any wild stretch. I just think if he is hurt badly it makes more sense to work with him to rehabilitate than to outright release him.

Again, if he's healthy I think differently. If he's healthy and he can't be traded then an outright release might be the option. As things sit right now I just think it is too early to tell.

Suppose he's not hurt badly. Does he not deserve an opportunity to come to camp and compete for a job? Notice I did not say "starter." No one get upset that I said job please.

People have him gone but I see the team treating him much differently at this point.

Just playing devil's advocate I guess.

[Jimz31]

The guy still played the second half and finished the game.

I don't think the injury is to the severity that some are trying to make it out to be.

[Sarge]

Hutch was gone LONG before that injury IMO.

[jay cee]

I dont hate Hutch at all. I think he has a solid long term NFL future but it may be another 2 years away and that is if he gets practice reps this year as a scout team QB somewhere.

It is in Hutch's best interest to be released. If he misses camp he falls behind Romo for certian and any QB brought in to be the veteran presence. Hutch realized he was auditionning for 31 other teams over in NFLE and he made that statement public. It does him no good to rehab as the 4th guy in line here if he can catch on with some team who views him something more than that and maybe as highly as Coslet did.

QBs are graded differently as we all know quite well. Some team may deem Hutch a perfect backup type guy after the rehab. Maybe a Cardinals or Rams. Whoever it is they wouldnt deem it necessary to trade for him now but they would like to say sign him and control his rehab and development this year. So they could grab him in a trade of guys likely to be among the last guys cut and obtain his rights.

Hutch is a hard worker and has physical tools. He isnt a bad guy at all. He just needs to play football all the time. I hope he goes back to NFLE next year and really dominates. Then perhaps he can hold down a backup job somewhere and really learn a system before he takes the field. Somewhere with a good OL and a decent running attack would help a lot.

We wouldnt be having this discussion at all had Dallas not went brain dead and playing him so many snaps as a rookie. He would have 4 more years here under contract and likely would be a lock for the roster and perhaps for the backup job itself. Contracts work in nasty ways towards roster status.


I totally agree JT. There is absolutely no way anyone could be certain Hutchinson won't turn into a decent qb. he needs time to develop, before we will really know.

I wonder how they will react to Henson, if he doesn't look like a superstar right off the bat?

[Hostile]

I totally agree JT. There is absolutely no way anyone could be certain Hutchinson won't turn into a decent qb. he needs time to develop, before we will really know.

I wonder how they will react to Henson, if he doesn't look like a superstar right off the bat?
If Henson doesn't sparkle every time he plays for the first two years it will be ugly. The QB wars have gone that far downhill.

[MichaelWinicki]

If Henson doesn't sparkle every time he plays for the first two years it will be ugly. The QB wars have gone that far downhill.


You know that is 100% correct. We Cowboy fans have very little patience anymore or inconsistent QB play. And I'm not sure if getting torqued about it helps.

[jay cee]

If Henson doesn't sparkle every time he plays for the first two years it will be ugly. The QB wars have gone that far downhill.


Ain't that the truth. You will have some from the pro qc crowd looking to point out every flaw. And also those fans who only want a superstar at quarterback and thinks if a guy doesn't come out as one right away, the team should dump him and try the next guy.

[Doomsday101]

I totally agree JT. There is absolutely no way anyone could be certain Hutchinson won't turn into a decent qb. he needs time to develop, before we will really know.

I wonder how they will react to Henson, if he doesn't look like a superstar right off the bat?

Just as it was with Carter, Hutchinson is now entering year 3 with the team and for him to remain I think he has to show vast improvement in training camp. As for Henson this will be his rookie year but if 3 years from now we are still waiting on him to develope then he too will face what Carter is dealing with right now. The days of have 5 or 6 years waiting on a player to develope are long gone, with FA and salary caps teams can't afford to wait on slowly developing players

[Hostile]

Just as it was with Carter, Hutchinson is now entering year 3 with the team and for him to remain I think he has to show vast improvement in training camp. As for Henson this will be his rookie year but if 3 years from now we are still waiting on him to develope then he too will face what Carter is dealing with right now. The days of have 5 or 6 years waiting on a player to develope are long gone, with FA and salary caps teams can't afford to wait on slowly developing players
That's just it, he won't be given 3 years. The rationale will be that people wanted Q gone before he ever had a chance to prove himself.

[jay cee]

Just as it was with Carter, Hutchinson is now entering year 3 with the team and for him to remain I think he has to show vast improvement in training camp. As for Henson this will be his rookie year but if 3 years from now we are still waiting on him to develope then he too will face what Carter is dealing with right now. The days of have 5 or 6 years waiting on a player to develope are long gone, with FA and salary caps teams can't afford to wait on slowly developing players


I don't think you can keep changing qb's every 2-3 years though. If Carter can't play much better this year, he should be replaced. But I don't want henson thrown in and given 2-3 years and then tossed also.

I want them to develop a team strong enough that they don't NEED a superstar qb. That way if one develops, it's a bonus.

[Hostile]

Ain't that the truth. You will have some from the pro qc crowd looking to point out every flaw. And also those fans who only want a superstar at quarterback and thinks if a guy doesn't come out as one right away, the team should dump him and try the next guy.
That is exactly what it has come to here. Every bad pass one of our QB throws will be dissected. Why? Because the last 2 QBs have endured that to the point that the two sides are tired of the other. I think Henson will acquire all the Hutch fans so that will further polarize things.

I honestly feel sorry for the kid in that respect. He has to be almost flawless to catch a break bcause that is how the two sides feel the critics of their player already feel and they will want to retaliate for the injustices they have felt for 3 years.

[Doomsday101]

That's just it, he won't be given 3 years. The rationale will be that people wanted Q gone before he ever had a chance to prove himself.

Hostile I can only speak for myself and not others. Your right some did not give Carter a chance from the get go myself I have. His rookie year I looked at him as a rookie understanind that he was going to make mistakes, his 2nd year again I did not put high expectations on him. This past season I did have higher expectation on Carter and what I saw was the same thing from the past 2 years which was his inconsistantcy, since he has been in Dallas he has yet to put back to back games together he is the Jekle and Hyde of the NFL. As soon as you start thinking he may put it all together he slides back to the same mistakes he made as a rookie. Now Carter appears to be getting yet another chance and for me to show Carter as much support as his groupies around here he is going to have to prove it with his play, the free ride is over. He must produce!! no excuses.

[jay cee]

That is exactly what it has come to here. Every bad pass one of our QB throws will be dissected. Why? Because the last 2 QBs have endured that to the point that the two sides are tired of the other. I think Henson will acquire all the Hutch fans so that will further polarize things.

I honestly feel sorry for the kid in that respect. He has to be almost flawless to catch a break bcause that is how the two sides feel the critics of their player already feel and they will want to retaliate for the injustices they have felt for 3 years.


The good thing is that if Henson is the Starter, Carter will more than likely be gone. so that may ease the crap somewhat.

[Doomsday101]

I don't think you can keep changing qb's every 2-3 years though. If Carter can't play much better this year, he should be replaced. But I don't want henson thrown in and given 2-3 years and then tossed also.

I want them to develop a team strong enough that they don't NEED a superstar qb. That way if one develops, it's a bonus.

If he is showing real improvement then you stick with him but again looking at Carter we see a QB rating that actually went down this year not up. Now if you’re playing that much better that ranking number is not going to fall. Believe me it is not just the rating it is his play in general that I have a problem with, his indecision and his inconsistency

[jay cee]

If he is showing real improvement then you stick with him but again looking at Carter we see a QB rating that actually went down this year not up. Now if you’re playing that much better that ranking number is not going to fall. Believe me it is not just the rating it is his play in general that I have a problem with, his indecision and his inconsistency

In 2002 Carter was playing in a west coast offense, last year they switched to an offense that was designed to throw the ball downfield a lot more. That the rating was almost the same, is a sign that he improved IMO.

I have a problem with his indecision and his inconsistency also. hopefully with a little more experience and a stronger O-line and running game he may cut down on his mistakes.

[Jimz31]

JayCee, it goes both ways.

Could it not also be that there weren't these message boards back when Aikman was a rookie? I think its ALWAYS been like this with our QB position.

To think that it all began with QC would INFURIATE Merideth.

Let's face it, with the advent of the internet, now everybody can discuss this easier. Not to mention hide behind their keyboards.

[jay cee]

JayCee, it goes both ways.

Could it not also be that there weren't these message boards back when Aikman was a rookie? I think its ALWAYS been like this with our QB position.

To think that it all began with QC would INFURIATE Merideth.

Let's face it, with the advent of the internet, now everybody can discuss this easier. Not to mention hide behind their keyboards.


I agree Jimz, I don't think it has just started. The internet has just made it so much more prevalent. The fans can be so irrational IMO, that it does get kind of frustrating.

And this total fascination with one position is totally irrational IMO. I know the qb is important, but I think most fans blow it way out of proportion.

[Doomsday101]

In 2002 Carter was playing in a west coast offense, last year they switched to an offense that was designed to throw the ball downfield a lot more. That the rating was almost the same, is a sign that he improved IMO.

I have a problem with his indecision and his inconsistency also. hopefully with a little more experience and a stronger O-line and running game he may cut down on his mistakes.

I agree but I no longer hope I demand and I think the Cowboys will demand more consistantcy from Carter or else he is not going to be starting much longer. I don't mean this to sound mean sprited but this is a fact of life in professional sports. Potential means nothing production means everything.

[Doomsday101]

I agree Jimz, I don't think it has just started. The internet has just made it so much more prevalent. The fans can be so irrational IMO, that it does get kind of frustrating.

And this total fascination with one position is totally irrational IMO. I know the qb is important, but I think most fans blow it way out of proportion.

The only reason this is an issue is because you have people on both sides. which is why you do not see big arguments about Hambrick,Ek or any other player who is not playing up to a high standard, most of us agree about these other players but when it comes to Carter there is a definite split among Cowboys fans

[Nors]

The only reason this is an issue is because you have people on both sides. which is why you do not see big arguments about Hambrick,Ek or any other player who is not playing up to a high standard, most of us agree about these other players but when it comes to Carter there is a definite split among Cowboys fans

A lot of fans can't get past the fact that Quincy Carter was vastly improved last season versus the Rookie Quincy Carter. Remember the ducks he used to throw? His arm strength and accuracy is greatly improved. Ask Giants Safeties on Monday night! I think a lot of the Quincy haters can't admit or see that.

[Doomsday101]

A lot of fans can't get past the fact that Quincy Carter was vastly improved last season versus the Rookie Quincy Carter. Remember the ducks he used to throw? His arm strength and accuracy is greatly improved. Ask Giants Safeties on Monday night! I think a lot of the Quincy haters can't admit or see that.

Sorry just because he throws fewer ducks does not make me feel better his lack of any consistantcy with in his play does. As for the giants game come on that is the only game you ever point to, we play 16 games not 1 not 5 (as in how many good games Carter actually had) we play 16. Evidently your version of vastly improved and mine are very far apart.

[jay cee]

The only reason this is an issue is because you have people on both sides. which is why you do not see big arguments about Hambrick,Ek or any other player who is not playing up to a high standard, most of us agree about these other players but when it comes to Carter there is a definite split among Cowboys fans

Dude, this is way bigger than Carter. Like Jimz said, you can trace this back to Don Meridith. i'm talking about how football fans in general overrate the position.

[Doomsday101]

Dude, this is way bigger than Carter. Like Jimz said, you can trace this back to Don Meridith. i'm talking about how football fans in general overrate the position.

I agree this is not the 1st time a QB controversy has taken place in Dallas. As for as the position being overrated I disagree there is a reason why all teams put so much effort into finding a quality QB as well as why the QB postion is the highest paid position in football in general and that is because it is a critical postion, poor QB play will get you beat faster than any because he does control the ball on every offensive play his mistakes be it fumbling or int. are magnified. Even the other players on a team will look to the QB to lead them

[Hostile]

The good thing is that if Henson is the Starter, Carter will more than likely be gone. so that may ease the crap somewhat.
Do you really think so? I'm not so sure we'd get rid of him. I'm not sure we'd keep him either. Talk about your soap operas.

[Hostile]

Hostile I can only speak for myself and not others. Your right some did not give Carter a chance from the get go myself I have. His rookie year I looked at him as a rookie understanind that he was going to make mistakes, his 2nd year again I did not put high expectations on him. This past season I did have higher expectation on Carter and what I saw was the same thing from the past 2 years which was his inconsistantcy, since he has been in Dallas he has yet to put back to back games together he is the Jekle and Hyde of the NFL. As soon as you start thinking he may put it all together he slides back to the same mistakes he made as a rookie. Now Carter appears to be getting yet another chance and for me to show Carter as much support as his groupies around here he is going to have to prove it with his play, the free ride is over. He must produce!! no excuses.
I will admit, he is one player coming out of college that I did not want Jerry to draft. Just like Maurice Clarett right now. His rookie year I admit I learned to like him. However, I can't say he has ever impressed me. I have thought non stop that we could be doing much better at the position. It bothers me that we've not made any significant moves to upgrade what is clearly a weak link to the team.

Henson is the latest attempt to do the impossible, find a franchise caliber QB without spending a 1st round pick on one. I see more doubt about Henson because of Hutch than anything Henson himself has done. I am interested in seeing him play in pre season. I think the missing intangibles that I have been harping on about Q that drive me nuts will be evident. Whether people want to believe it or not, sometimes there is good reason for hype.

Unfortunately, I think that hype will also drive the dislike for him if he outshines Q and is supporters get beligerant about it. The defense of Q will just get more heated in my opinion.

The first time this kid throws 3 picks in a game he will be branded a failure because Q was. People fail to realize that other factors contribute.

If being a good guy made you a good player, Q would be all everything.

[Doomsday101]

I will admit, he is one player coming out of college that I did not want Jerry to draft. Just like Maurice Clarett right now. His rookie year I admit I learned to like him. However, I can't say he has ever impressed me. I have thought non stop that we could be doing much better at the position. It bothers me that we've not made any significant moves to upgrade what is clearly a weak link to the team.

Henson is the latest attempt to do the impossible, find a franchise caliber QB without spending a 1st round pick on one. I see more doubt about Henson because of Hutch than anything Henson himself has done. I am interested in seeing him play in pre season. I think the missing intangibles that I have been harping on about Q that drive me nuts will be evident. Whether people want to believe it or not, sometimes there is good reason for hype.

Unfortunately, I think that hype will also drive the dislike for him if he outshines Q and is supporters get beligerant about it. The defense of Q will just get more heated in my opinion.

The first time this kid throws 3 picks in a game he will be branded a failure because Q was. People fail to realize that other factors contribute.

If being a good guy made you a good player, Q would be all everything.


No one ever said it was easy being the QB for the Dallas Cowboys. LOL but the upside is if you make it as a top QB with the Cowboys you will get all the attention you want. I admit I'm excited about the prospect of Henson and have not felt this way about a prospect since we drafted Aikman. But in the end it will come back to down to the same old thing and that is performance and of course consistency in his play.

[Hostile]

No one ever said it was easy being the QB for the Dallas Cowboys. LOL but the upside is if you make it as a top QB with the Cowboys you will get all the attention you want. I admit I'm excited about the prospect of Henson and have not felt this way about a prospect since we drafted Aikman. But in the end it will come back to down to the same old thing and that is performance and of course consistency in his play.
I couldn't agree more.

I have long said if you have the means whereby you can get better then do it. I don't care if it is replacing the #1 option at a position of the #3 option at a position. I want the best possible 53 man roster that the Cowboys can possibly have. That is often misinterpretted as hate for the starting QB. I don't hate him. I do not like his inconsistent play. To me there is a huge difference.

The thing that bothers me is the "don't bring in any real competition" mentality, because it could rock the boat. Hey, sometimes the boat needs to be rocked. At every position.

What it boils down to for me is that I have never been a fan of the "wait and see" approach. Fix it, and let's get on about the business of winning Super Bowls.

I rarely judge players by how my fellow fans think of them. If fans of other teams are unafraid, time for a change. Sadly, no one fears our passing attack. They fear our Coach.

[blindzebra]

A lot of fans can't get past the fact that Quincy Carter was vastly improved last season versus the Rookie Quincy Carter. Remember the ducks he used to throw? His arm strength and accuracy is greatly improved. Ask Giants Safeties on Monday night! I think a lot of the Quincy haters can't admit or see that.

We are basing everything on the fact that he does not throw ducks on every other throw. He still is inconsistent with his accuracy, makes too many bad decisions, and is hesitant to use his best asset, his legs, to run when nothing is there. Other than that he has improved greatly, after all he does not throw all those ducks. ;)

[L.T. Fan]

undefinedTo hell with Kurt. Don't want him. Don't need him.

I think I would rather have Kurt than Vinny. ;)

[jay cee]

I agree this is not the 1st time a QB controversy has taken place in Dallas. As for as the position being overrated I disagree there is a reason why all teams put so much effort into finding a quality QB as well as why the QB postion is the highest paid position in football in general and that is because it is a critical postion, poor QB play will get you beat faster than any because he does control the ball on every offensive play his mistakes be it fumbling or int. are magnified. Even the other players on a team will look to the QB to lead them


The position is critical, it's also the easiest position to see what the player is doing. Thats why it is overrated by the fans IMO.

Many times teams take qb's early, not just because the position is critical, but because they know that's what sells the most tickets. I don't think the Bengals would demote Kitna after his best season for a 2nd year player if they were trying to be the best team they could be.

[blindzebra]

The position is critical, it's also the easiest position to see what the player is doing. Thats why it is overrated by the fans IMO.

Many times teams take qb's early, not just because the position is critical, but because they know that's what sells the most tickets. I don't think the Bengals would demote Kitna after his best season for a 2nd year player if they were trying to be the best team they could be.

When have the Bengals ever TRIED to be the best that they could be. :D

[jay cee]

When have the Bengals ever TRIED to be the best that they could be. :D


uhhhhhh.........great point. :D

[blindzebra]

uhhhhhh.........great point. :D

It could have been worse, you could have used the Cardinals as your example. ;)

[Doomsday101]

The position is critical, it's also the easiest position to see what the player is doing. Thats why it is overrated by the fans IMO.

Many times teams take qb's early, not just because the position is critical, but because they know that's what sells the most tickets. I don't think the Bengals would demote Kitna after his best season for a 2nd year player if they were trying to be the best team they could be.

I don't agree that teams make these picks to sell tickets I think the coaches relize how important that position is and teams are looking for high quality QB. As for the Bengals I can't comment on that move as of yet because I have not seen Carson Palmer play. That could very well mean that Mavin Lewis feels very confident that Palmer is ready to take over and also I don't know what type of Impact having 2 high priced QB was effecting their ability to upgrade other areas of the team.

[jay cee]

I don't agree that teams make these picks to sell tickets I think the coaches relize how important that position is and teams are looking for high quality QB. As for the Bengals I can't comment on that move as of yet because I have not seen Carson Palmer play. That could very well mean that Mavin Lewis feels very confident that Palmer is ready to take over and also I don't know what type of Impact having 2 high priced QB was effecting their ability to upgrade other areas of the team.

When I was in junior high, my coach told us that the line play was the most important aspect of winning football games. He would call the average fans cheerleaders. They only watched the quarterback. The quarterback would get the glory but the lineman would win the game.

He may have only been telling us that to get us to play harder. But I bought into that. I have seen teams win with good qb's and average qb's, good rb's and average rb's. But I have never seen a championship caliber team with an average line.

We will have to disagree on this point. IMO the qb position is the most overrated position in all of team sports. It may be important, but not as important as most fans and media make it out to be.

[Doomsday101]

When I was in junior high, my coach told us that the line play was the most important aspect of winning football games. He would call the average fans cheerleaders. They only watched the quarterback. The quarterback would get the glory but the lineman would win the game.

He may have only been telling us that to get us to play harder. But I bought into that. I have seen teams win with good qb's and average qb's, good rb's and average rb's. But I have never seen a championship caliber team with an average line.

We will have to disagree on this point. IMO the qb position is the most overrated position in all of team sports. It may be important, but not as important as most fans and media make it out to be.

I don't disagree that the line of scrimmage is where games get won and lost but a bad QB behind a great line is still a bad QB and because he is controling the ball the descisions he makes on any given play can alter the game for good or bad so it does becomes the focal point. Players on a team don't look to the O-line to lead them they do look at the QB because quite honestly a QB is the closest thing you have to a coach on the field

[Hostile]

When I was in junior high, my coach told us that the line play was the most important aspect of winning football games. He would call the average fans cheerleaders. They only watched the quarterback. The quarterback would get the glory but the lineman would win the game.

He may have only been telling us that to get us to play harder. But I bought into that. I have seen teams win with good qb's and average qb's, good rb's and average rb's. But I have never seen a championship caliber team with an average line.

We will have to disagree on this point. IMO the qb position is the most overrated position in all of team sports. It may be important, but not as important as most fans and media make it out to be.
First of all I agree with the line of scrimmage being the genesis of success in football. However, you still need skill positions to do their job.

Let me give you a fictional scenario or two and I want your honest answers.

Scenario #1...

You are the GM of the Indianapolis Colts and you decide that you are not going to match the offer for Peyton Manning. You can sign a Free Agent or go with Brock Huard at QB. Please feel free to add ONE weapon who was a Free Agent, restricted or unrestricted, to your offense to keep you as a contender for the Super Bowl.

I submit unto you that if that is not an automatic answer that Manning's value at QB is not over rated.

Scenario #2...

You are the GM of the Green Bay Packers. Brett Favre informs you that 2004 will be his last year in the NFL, he won't change his mind. You can draft a QB to groom, trade with Houston for Drew Henson as options for the future. Ot you can go with Doug Pederson, trade for Q, and with either option you can sign any ONE of the offensive free agents, restricted or unrestricted, from this year's free agency. Which direction do you go?

In my opinion replacing an elite QB is the hardest thing to do in football. Therefore they cannot be over rated. The Niners lost Terrell Owens this year. They drafted Rashaun Woods. As gifted as Owens is I'd have to say it would be easier to replace him and move on with your offense than it would be to replace Favre or Manning.

The reason QBs are not over rated when they are really good is because they literally decide the outcome of a game by how they perform more than any other position. The RB cannot decide when he is going to get the ball. The WR cannot decide when the ball is coming his way.

All of that falls squarely on the shoulders of the QB.

[jay cee]

First of all I agree with the line of scrimmage being the genesis of success in football. However, you still need skill positions to do their job.

Let me give you a fictional scenario or two and I want your honest answers.

Scenario #1...

You are the GM of the Indianapolis Colts and you decide that you are not going to match the offer for Peyton Manning. You can sign a Free Agent or go with Brock Huard at QB. Please feel free to add ONE weapon who was a Free Agent, restricted or unrestricted, to your offense to keep you as a contender for the Super Bowl.

I submit unto you that if that is not an automatic answer that Manning's value at QB is not over rated.

Scenario #2...

You are the GM of the Green Bay Packers. Brett Favre informs you that 2004 will be his last year in the NFL, he won't change his mind. You can draft a QB to groom, trade with Houston for Drew Henson as options for the future. Ot you can go with Doug Pederson, trade for Q, and with either option you can sign any ONE of the offensive free agents, restricted or unrestricted, from this year's free agency. Which direction do you go?

In my opinion replacing an elite QB is the hardest thing to do in football. Therefore they cannot be over rated. The Niners lost Terrell Owens this year. They drafted Rashaun Woods. As gifted as Owens is I'd have to say it would be easier to replace him and move on with your offense than it would be to replace Favre or Manning.

The reason QBs are not over rated when they are really good is because they literally decide the outcome of a game by how they perform more than any other position. The RB cannot decide when he is going to get the ball. The WR cannot decide when the ball is coming his way.

All of that falls squarely on the shoulders of the QB.

First of all saying that something is overrated is not saying that it is not important. I just want to make sure you guys understand that. And I am not saying Skill positions are not important.

Of course a bad qb hurts his team more than a bad tackle Dooms. I'm not talking about bad qb's. I'm saying that the position has this almost mythical level of importance in peoples minds that seems unreal to me.

As for your scenarios Hos....,

1. Brunell or Collins and Owens who I know were not free agents, were the only players available this off season that I think could possibly make up for the loss of Manning. But Manning may be one of the best qb's to ever play the game.

2. Trade for Henson and I don't know which offensive free agent to go for. It's probably not going to matter because the team is screwed without Farve. I don't see Henson being as good as Farve, since he is a legitimate hall of fame qb. And by legitimate, I mean he will not go in because of superbowl victories (team accomplishments), but because of his on field production.

IMO, that's the problem with your scenarios Hostile, you are pointing out two players that are the best players on their team, and possibly two of the all time greats. They also happen to play qb. If your qb is also the best player on the team, then of course he is probably going to be very difficult to replace.

Carolina went to the Superbowl with Delhomme, he is not as important to his teams success as Manning or Farve is to their team.

I don't think Delhomme would be very difficult to replace. Off the top of my head, I would say out of every starter in Carolina, there probably are 5-6 that would be harder to replace than Delhomme.

Emmitt Smith was the most indispensable player on the '90's Cowboys team. Lawrence Taylor on those Superbowl Giants teams. It's not always the qb.

It's hard to overrate a great qb, but IMO, the position as a whole has been overrated by most fans and media.

[Doomsday101]

First of all saying that something is overrated is not saying that it is not important. I just want to make sure you guys understand that. And I am not saying Skill positions are not important.

Of course a bad qb hurts his team more than a bad tackle Dooms. I'm not talking about bad qb's. I'm saying that the position has this almost mythical level of importance in peoples minds that seems unreal to me.

As for your scenarios Hos....,

1. Brunell or Collins and Owens who I know were not free agents, were the only players available this off season that I think could possibly make up for the loss of Manning. But Manning may be one of the best qb's to ever play the game.

2. Trade for Henson and I don't know which offensive free agent to go for. It's probably not going to matter because the team is screwed without Farve. I don't see Henson being as good as Farve, since he is a legitimate hall of fame qb. And by legitimate, I mean he will not go in because of superbowl victories (team accomplishments), but because of his on field production.

IMO, that's the problem with your scenarios Hostile, you are pointing out two players that are the best players on their team, and possibly two of the all time greats. They also happen to play qb. If your qb is also the best player on the team, then of course he is probably going to be very difficult to replace.

Carolina went to the Superbowl with Delhomme, he is not as important to his teams success as Manning or Farve is to their team.

I don't think Delhomme would be very difficult to replace. Off the top of my head, I would say out of every starter in Carolina, there probably are 5-6 that would be harder to replace than Delhomme.

Emmitt Smith was the most indispensable player on the '90's Cowboys team. Lawrence Taylor on those Superbowl Giants teams. It's not always the qb.

It's hard to overrate a great qb, but IMO, the position as a whole has been overrated by most fans and media.

Again though what makes it important is he is the man making the call, when that QB drops back he has to make choice in about 3 sec. Lineman get assignments they do not free lance, running back run on instinct, WR have a certain rout but the QB has to be able to make the right choice. You could take 3 QB put them all behind the same line and each run the same play and chances are you are going to come up to 3 different results because not each QB will process what they see the same way

[Hostile]

First of all saying that something is overrated is not saying that it is not important. I just want to make sure you guys understand that. And I am not saying Skill positions are not important.

Of course a bad qb hurts his team more than a bad tackle Dooms. I'm not talking about bad qb's. I'm saying that the position has this almost mythical level of importance in peoples minds that seems unreal to me.

As for your scenarios Hos....,

1. Brunell or Collins and Owens who I know were not free agents, were the only players available this off season that I think could possibly make up for the loss of Manning. But Manning may be one of the best qb's to ever play the game.

2. Trade for Henson and I don't know which offensive free agent to go for. It's probably not going to matter because the team is screwed without Farve. I don't see Henson being as good as Farve, since he is a legitimate hall of fame qb. And by legitimate, I mean he will not go in because of superbowl victories (team accomplishments), but because of his on field production.

IMO, that's the problem with your scenarios Hostile, you are pointing out two players that are the best players on their team, and possibly two of the all time greats. They also happen to play qb. If your qb is also the best player on the team, then of course he is probably going to be very difficult to replace.

Carolina went to the Superbowl with Delhomme, he is not as important to his teams success as Manning or Farve is to their team.

I don't think Delhomme would be very difficult to replace. Off the top of my head, I would say out of every starter in Carolina, there probably are 5-6 that would be harder to replace than Delhomme.

Emmitt Smith was the most indispensable player on the '90's Cowboys team. Lawrence Taylor on those Superbowl Giants teams. It's not always the qb.

It's hard to overrate a great qb, but IMO, the position as a whole has been overrated by most fans and media.
The point remains, if the patch is not an easy one to make then you can't over rate the job.

Clinton Portis was a good RB in Denver correct? Easy to replace? We shall see with Tatum Bell. I'll bet it wasn't all that hard and Bell will have similar success.

David Boston tore up things while with the Cardinals. Anquan Boldin looks to have filled in nicely plus they added Fitz.

If the Vikings had lost Randy Moss I think they could have made the trade for Owens or drafted a WR and moved on rather seamlessly.

Do you ever completely replace a legend? Not until you happen upon another legend. At QB, that job is harder than any other position to fill. Therefore I don't see how it can be over rated.

If anything I feel that some people here under rate the importance of QB in the NFL. They point out the Jake Delhomme's, Trent Dilfer's, and Brad Johnson's of the NFL and remind everyone that they have rings. Yeah, they do. One each. They rode the coat tails of great defenses. Two of those defenses may be all time NFL great defenses in the minds of many. Ravens and Bucs I am speaking about. One Super Bowl run each. That's it. Eagles had a great defense with Jerome Brown, Reggie White, et al. No Super Bowl runs.

Now look closely at some teams who had great QBs. Jim Kelly, 4 chances at it. Roger Staubach, 5 chances at it. John Elway, 5 chances at it. Joe Montana, 4 chances at it. Terry Bradshaw, 4 chances at it. Even Tom Brady and Kurt Warner, two guys on the cusp of fitting that group of QBs have had 2 shots each. I think Peyton Manning might be able to get to a couple before he is done.

At the very least a great QB gives you a better shot at making a run than not having one. That is why I am excited about Drew Henson being here. If he plays to his potential we may have a great one.

That is the key, potential. For some players the sky is the limit. For some it is a mountian top. For some it is a table top. Yes, I chose great QBs for my scenarios. It is more valid because I did. How hard is it to replace Elway? Marino? Aikman? Denver and Miami are still fumbling with the pieces. Potentially we have the guy getting ready to follow.

If Henson plays to his potential you have to admit you probably think we're in great shape to make a long sustained run at Championships. If so, how can that be over rated?

[jay cee]

The point remains, if the patch is not an easy one to make then you can't over rate the job.

Clinton Portis was a good RB in Denver correct? Easy to replace? We shall see with Tatum Bell. I'll bet it wasn't all that hard and Bell will have similar success.

David Boston tore up things while with the Cardinals. Anquan Boldin looks to have filled in nicely plus they added Fitz.

If the Vikings had lost Randy Moss I think they could have made the trade for Owens or drafted a WR and moved on rather seamlessly.

Do you ever completely replace a legend? Not until you happen upon another legend. At QB, that job is harder than any other position to fill. Therefore I don't see how it can be over rated.

If anything I feel that some people here under rate the importance of QB in the NFL. They point out the Jake Delhomme's, Trent Dilfer's, and Brad Johnson's of the NFL and remind everyone that they have rings. Yeah, they do. One each. They rode the coat tails of great defenses. Two of those defenses may be all time NFL great defenses in the minds of many. Ravens and Bucs I am speaking about. One Super Bowl run each. That's it. Eagles had a great defense with Jerome Brown, Reggie White, et al. No Super Bowl runs.

Now look closely at some teams who had great QBs. Jim Kelly, 4 chances at it. Roger Staubach, 5 chances at it. John Elway, 5 chances at it. Joe Montana, 4 chances at it. Terry Bradshaw, 4 chances at it. Even Tom Brady and Kurt Warner, two guys on the cusp of fitting that group of QBs have had 2 shots each. I think Peyton Manning might be able to get to a couple before he is done.

At the very least a great QB gives you a better shot at making a run than not having one. That is why I am excited about Drew Henson being here. If he plays to his potential we may have a great one.

That is the key, potential. For some players the sky is the limit. For some it is a mountian top. For some it is a table top. Yes, I chose great QBs for my scenarios. It is more valid because I did. How hard is it to replace Elway? Marino? Aikman? Denver and Miami are still fumbling with the pieces. Potentially we have the guy getting ready to follow.

If Henson plays to his potential you have to admit you probably think we're in great shape to make a long sustained run at Championships. If so, how can that be over rated?

To make a sustained run at multiple superbowls, you have to have great players at multiple positions. Not just qb. We can debate this forever. A qb is part of a team, the more great players you have the better chance you have to win superbowls. If you surround Henson with great players, the better chance you have of him reaching his potential IMO.

How hard is it to replace Emmitt Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Walter Payton, or Jerry Rice. If you pick the very best at any position, they will be difficult to replace.

When you brought up Bolden replacing Boston and Bell replacing Portis, you seem to be talking about statistics. That's cool, but when you talk about qb's it's about championships.

That's why I consider the position to be overrated. They get credit for team accomplisments rather than their performance. A qb can put up average #'s but ride a great running back and dominant defense to a championship and get all kinds of credit for being a winner.

I read in Skip Bayless' book how Aikman was more important than Smith during the Cowboys 90's superbowl runs because he played quarterback.
Now if that is not overrating the position, I don't know what is.

[Hostile]

To make a sustained run at multiple superbowls, you have to have great players at multiple positions. Not just qb. We can debate this forever. A qb is part of a team, the more great players you have the better chance you have to win superbowls. If you surround Henson with great players, the better chance you have of him reaching his potential IMO.

How hard is it to replace Emmitt Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Walter Payton, or Jerry Rice. If you pick the very best at any position, they will be difficult to replace.

When you brought up Bolden replacing Boston and Bell replacing Portis, you seem to be talking about statistics. That's cool, but when you talk about qb's it's about championships.

That's why I consider the position to be overrated. They get credit for team accomplisments rather than their performance. A qb can put up average #'s but ride a great running back and dominant defense to a championship and get all kinds of credit for being a winner.

I read in Skip Bayless' book how Aikman was more important than Smith during the Cowboys 90's superbowl runs because he played quarterback.
Now if that is not overrating the position, I don't know what is.
First of all, Skip is entitled to his opinions. I don't put any more stock in his opinions than I do any other journalist.

When a player is great, truly great it is hard to replace them. However it is easier at the other positions. QB is by far the hardest to replace.

Some examples.

Jerry Rice was replaced by Terrell Owens and he filled in quite nicely.

Walter Payton was replaced briefly by Neal Anderson and he played somewhat well until injuries stalled him.

Tony Dorsett was replaced by Emmitt Smith who might be replaced by Julius Jones, we all hope.

Ronnie Lott was replaced by Merton Hanks.

LT was replaced by Strahan, albeit at a different position.

Players can always come in and fill the void. Am I saying these replacement are better than the originals? No, I am not.

I maintain it is harder to replace a legend at QB than anywhere else on the field.

How has Denver done replacing Elway? Miami replacing Marino? Buffalo Replacing Kelly? Dallas replacing Aikman? How hard will it be for Green Bay to replace Favre? How hard for Indianapolis to replace Manning?

Sustained runs at multiple Super Bowls is what it is all about. Yes, you need to surround great QBs with good players. I don't deny that. Never have.

The job is easier with a thoroughbred at QB than with an also ran. I just don't see how anyone can deny that. You're talking about the pivot point of the whole offense. People here mention often how our passing game suffered because teams did not fear our running attack. There is some truth to that. There ar eother ways to look at it too.

The last couple of years Peyton Manning has had so so RBs behind him because Edge has been injured a lot. Some debate whether he is healthy even now. Yet no matter how bad the running game was, Indy's passing attack still flourished. New England has won two Super Bowls with a great QB who has adequate, but not superior, talent around him.

If you replaced Tom Brady and Antowain Smith with Tomlinson and Rohan Davey I just don't think New England is still the favorite to win it all last year. Like him or hate him, Brady drives the good ship Patriot.

[jay cee]

First of all, Skip is entitled to his opinions. I don't put any more stock in his opinions than I do any other journalist.

When a player is great, truly great it is hard to replace them. However it is easier at the other positions. QB is by far the hardest to replace.

Some examples.

Jerry Rice was replaced by Terrell Owens and he filled in quite nicely.

Walter Payton was replaced briefly by Neal Anderson and he played somewhat well until injuries stalled him.

Tony Dorsett was replaced by Emmitt Smith who might be replaced by Julius Jones, we all hope.

Ronnie Lott was replaced by Merton Hanks.

LT was replaced by Strahan, albeit at a different position.

Players can always come in and fill the void. Am I saying these replacement are better than the originals? No, I am not.

I maintain it is harder to replace a legend at QB than anywhere else on the field.

How has Denver done replacing Elway? Miami replacing Marino? Buffalo Replacing Kelly? Dallas replacing Aikman? How hard will it be for Green Bay to replace Favre? How hard for Indianapolis to replace Manning?

Sustained runs at multiple Super Bowls is what it is all about. Yes, you need to surround great QBs with good players. I don't deny that. Never have.

The job is easier with a thoroughbred at QB than with an also ran. I just don't see how anyone can deny that. You're talking about the pivot point of the whole offense. People here mention often how our passing game suffered because teams did not fear our running attack. There is some truth to that. There ar eother ways to look at it too.

The last couple of years Peyton Manning has had so so RBs behind him because Edge has been injured a lot. Some debate whether he is healthy even now. Yet no matter how bad the running game was, Indy's passing attack still flourished. New England has won two Super Bowls with a great QB who has adequate, but not superior, talent around him.

If you replaced Tom Brady and Antowain Smith with Tomlinson and Rohan Davey I just don't think New England is still the favorite to win it all last year. Like him or hate him, Brady drives the good ship Patriot.

I brought up Bayless as an example of how many fans and media overrate the position. Don't you think when you say that a very good qb is more important than one of the greatest rbs in the history of the game because he plays the qb position, that's overrating the position.

I never said that it's better to have a poor or average qb. I just said that many fans and media overrate the position. They blame the qb when the team is doing poorly, and give him too much credit when the team is doing well. How is that opinion wrong?

And again when you compare other positions, you go by the players production, but for qb's it's all about championships. White did a better job replacing Staubach than Neal Anderson did replacing Payton but many blame White because the Cowboys could not make it to the superbowl with him at qb.

Owens put up good stats, but I don't think the 49ers was really any serious threat to win it all.

How many years between LT and Strahan, or Dorsett and Smith. Hanks was no where near as good as Lott.

Now when I say any number of qb's could have replaced Aikman and the cowboys could have still won those superbowls, I am wrong. But you can determine that Rohan Davey and Tomlinson could not replace Brady and Antowain Smith. I don't get that either

[Hostile]

I brought up Bayless as an example of how many fans and media overrate the position. Don't you think when you say that a very good qb is more important than one of the greatest rbs in the history of the game because he plays the qb position, that's overrating the position.

I never said that it's better to have a poor or average qb. I just said that many fans and media overrate the position. They blame the qb when the team is doing poorly, and give him too much credit when the team is doing well. How is that opinion wrong?

And again when you compare other positions, you go by the players production, but for qb's it's all about championships. White did a better job replacing Staubach than Neal Anderson did replacing Payton but many blame White because the Cowboys could not make it to the superbowl with him at qb.

Owens put up good stats, but I don't think the 49ers was really any serious threat to win it all.

How many years between LT and Strahan, or Dorsett and Smith. Hanks was no where near as good as Lott.

Now when I say any number of qb's could have replaced Aikman and the cowboys could have still won those superbowls, I am wrong. But you can determine that Rohan Davey and Tomlinson could not replace Brady and Antowain Smith. I don't get that either
I think many fans under rate the position. We simply disagree. I need and want field generals.

A RB has a bad day it affects the running game.

A WR has a bad day it affects the passing game.

A QB has a bad day it affects the whole offense and defense too because they end up tired from not getting long enough breaks between possessions. I realize to some degree this is true of any player, but it is much more evident with QBs.

I think this is why so many of us disagree on our QBs. People who think accuracy and the position are over rated are fine with our current QB situation. People who place a lot of emphasis on the back of the QB being able to carry the load are unhappy with our current QB situation.

Sounds so much better than haters and apologists.

One last thing, we have never debated on Troy Aikman to my knowledge. If so, I sure don't remember it. Especially since I have long maintained that Aikman could have been traded for any number of QBs in his era and I'd have been fine with it. I love the guy, but do not put him on a pedastal that is unreachable. I think you have me confused with someone else.

[jay cee]

I think many fans under rate the position. We simply disagree. I need and want field generals.

A RB has a bad day it affects the running game.

A WR has a bad day it affects the passing game.

A QB has a bad day it affects the whole offense and defense too because they end up tired from not getting long enough breaks between possessions. I realize to some degree this is true of any player, but it is much more evident with QBs.

I think this is why so many of us disagree on our QBs. People who think accuracy and the position are over rated are fine with our current QB situation. People who place a lot of emphasis on the back of the QB being able to carry the load are unhappy with our current QB situation.

Sounds so much better than haters and apologists.

One last thing, we have never debated on Troy Aikman to my knowledge. If so, I sure don't remember it. Especially since I have long maintained that Aikman could have been traded for any number of QBs in his era and I'd have been fine with it. I love the guy, but do not put him on a pedastal that is unreachable. I think you have me confused with someone else.

Like I said before, I never said that the qb was not important. I never said that the position wasn't the most important position on the team. I just said that the fans make too big a deal on the position. I think the view by Bayless is held by many, and that was the point that I have been trying to make.

And I am not satisfied with the current qb situation with the team. I just think that you can build a championship caliber team without a great qb. But you still have to have a qb that does not hurt the team. I am not sure at all if the Cowboys have a qb that fits that profile.

It seems that some people want the team to keep recycling qb's until they find a superstar, then they can go on a superbowl run. I don't buy that, I personally think the position is too important to think that you can do that.

As for Aikman, I was not claiming that I had that discussion with you personally. I have had that conversation before and people have said that I could not determine what would have happened if Aikman had not played, so I decided to pull that card out on you. :D

[Nors]

7th rounder conditional on making roster

[InParcellsWetrust]

Hutch has been of no use for us I say we trade him and see if we can get atleast a 7th round pick for him

[twa]

I say we trade Q to Arizona and get a real Qb till Henson is ready. :D

[InParcellsWetrust]

Why the hate towards a guy that was part of a 10 win season last year? granted
at times he looked good other times he looked he didn't know what in the hell he was doing out there.

But I don't contribute alot of our failures last year on Carters bungling! alot of it had to do with no running game only 1 reciever at times poor O line protection I mean pick your poison.

and yes when at times he did have those things he made some dumb mistakes! not throwing it away trying to thread the needle passing the ball into double coverage.

Stupid mistakes ones that a rookie would make not a guy playing his third year on the team

but in his defense last year technicly Carter was a rookie

I don't know what his future holds but for right now, I think he gives us the best chance at winning and IMO his performance last year atleast earns him one more chance to show us what he's got

[twa]

Why the hate towards a guy that was part of a 10 win season last year? granted
at times he looked good other times he looked he didn't know what in the hell he was doing out there.

But I don't contribute alot of our failures last year on Carters bungling! alot of it had to do with no running game only 1 reciever at times poor O line protection I mean pick your poison.

and yes when at times he did have those things he made some dumb mistakes! not throwing it away trying to thread the needle passing the ball into double coverage.

Stupid mistakes ones that a rookie would make not a guy playing his third year on the team

but in his defense last year technicly Carter was a rookie

I don't know what his future holds but for right now, I think he gives us the best chance at winning and IMO his performance last year atleast earns him one more chance to show us what he's got
What hate? I have hoped for his success for the sake of the team since he came here.To me he has gone from a bad to a slightly below average Qb,Hopefully this year he will have a breakout season.I don't see it happening and feel his trade value now is high enough to move him and get a experienced Qb to make this offense work.Carter has played about to his salary but I expect much more from the Qb of the boys.If he does start for us this season I will continue to hope for the best yet I cannot overlook his mistakes.PS:At least I will not have to hear how he is really a rookie THIS year :D of course someone will find a way.

[Rack Bauer]

Need for a vet just got more evident if this is true.



Hutch could of been in perfect physical condition and we'd still be in need of a vet.

IMO he wasn't gonna make the team anyway. Being injured may have actually helped him stay on the team another year (IR).

[InParcellsWetrust]

What hate? I have hoped for his success for the sake of the team since he came here.To me he has gone from a bad to a slightly below average Qb,Hopefully this year he will have a breakout season.I don't see it happening and feel his trade value now is high enough to move him and get a experienced Qb to make this offense work.Carter has played about to his salary but I expect much more from the Qb of the boys.If he does start for us this season I will continue to hope for the best yet I cannot overlook his mistakes.PS:At least I will not have to hear how he is really a rookie THIS year :D of course someone will find a way.

Of course we expect more we have all ways put our quaterbacks on a pedistile over the years we have had great QB's.

so we want them to be like the Dandy Don's, Captain Comeback, Troy Aikman type quaterbacks

But I think Quincy has evolved to be better then a below average QB! even thought at times it doesn't seem that way.

And I think his success hinges on what he does this year he has to bring down his INT's his short game has got to get better and needs to work on his long passes

if he falls short at doing any of that regardless of is team mates failing around him
I think he's gone next year and Henson possible takes over

[twa]

Of course we expect more we have all ways put our quaterbacks on a pedistile over the years we have had great QB's.

so we want them to be like the Dandy Don's, Captain Comeback, Troy Aikman type quaterbacks

But I think Quincy has evolved to be better then a below average QB! even thought at times it doesn't seem that way.

And I think his success hinges on what he does this year he has to bring down his INT's his short game has got to get better and needs to work on his long passes

if he falls short at doing any of that regardless of is team mates failing around him
I think he's gone next year and Henson possible takes over
I hope he has evolved,things are shaping up around him. If he does not improve I do not think he will last the season as a starter.