Atlanta Braves thread!!!

[GloryDaysRBack]

I noticed the braves have a pretty strong following here, so i figured id get this thread going...3-1 to start the season..just a few bullet point thoughts of mine

- I hate Nate Mclouth
- Very impressed w Kimbrell as the closer
- This team could use another bat for sure
- Very happy w the bullpen overall
- Starting pitching is strong
- Hanson needs to be better
- We really need a new CF..preferably one that can swing the bat..I don't see any other position on this team where a change can be made that will also improve us offensively...not a realistic one at least
- Chipper is the man

[Muhast]

I noticed the braves have a pretty strong following here, so i figured id get this thread going...3-1 to start the season..just a few bullet point thoughts of mine

- I hate Nate Mclouth
- Very impressed w Kimbrell as the closer
- This team could use another bat for sure
- Very happy w the bullpen overall
- Starting pitching is strong
- Hanson needs to be better
- We really need a new CF..preferably one that can swing the bat..I don't see any other position on this team where a change can be made that will also improve us offensively...not a realistic one at least
- Chipper is the man

I was excited about Kimbrell last year when he pitched three straight games in the playoffs and had three straight 1-2-3 innings.

He is going to be a star.

Prado finally got his swing down pat on sunday. Freeman should follow soon.

Uggla looks like a monster of a 2nd basemen.

[GloryDaysRBack]

I was excited about Kimbrell last year when he pitched three straight games in the playoffs and had three straight 1-2-3 innings.

He is going to be a star.

Prado finally got his swing down pat on sunday. Freeman should follow soon.

Uggla looks like a monster of a 2nd basemen.

I hope you are right about Freeman..we need all the production we can get..

Uggla is definitely a monster @ 2nd

That venters/Kimbrell combo is going to be amazing for us..take a lead heading into the 8th and it should be a wrap..absolutely love being able to shorten games

[Bonecrusher#31]

I love my Braves and I'm saying anything negative about any player.......



yet.

[RoyTheHammer]

I wouldn't get too excited over Uggla just yet.

[silverbear]

How 'bout we talk about a REAL team??

I refer, of course, to the unbeaten, never even been behind for an inning this season Baltimore Orioles... the team with a team ERA of 1.0, while the starters' combined ERA is under 0.7...


Break up the Birds... :D

[Bonecrusher#31]

0


Break up the Birds... :D
No Way !!!!

Keep those jabronies together..

[RoyTheHammer]

How 'bout we talk about a REAL team??

I refer, of course, to the unbeaten, never even been behind for an inning this season Baltimore Orioles... the team with a team ERA of 1.0, while the starters' combined ERA is under 0.7...


Break up the Birds... :D

I think that's the first time i've ever heard "real team" and Baltimore Orioles in the same paragraph haha.

They're starting out well though.

[Joe Realist]

Go Phillies!

[silverbear]

I think that's the first time i've ever heard "real team" and Baltimore Orioles in the same paragraph haha.

That's because you're very young, LOL...

In the 70s, the Baltimore Orioles were the model for how a successful franchise should be run... their farm system was the one that everybody else copied...

Of course, that was all before Peter Freakin' Angelos... and before baseball set up their free agency rules so that the Yankees and Red Sox could buy all the free agent talent available every year (MLB's salary cap rules are a complete joke)...

As an old guy, I can still vividly remember Palmer, McNally, Cuellar and Dobson, who only did something that has never been done, before or since-- 4 20 game winners on one staff, in one season...

They're starting out well though.

Obviously, I was being playful with my original response, but I will go out on a limb right now and predict that the Birds will win 90 games this year, which might or might not make them playoff contenders... you heard it here first; I mean, they're winning games right now without any offensive contribution of note from their brand new big boppers-- Vlad Guerrero, Derek Lee and Mark Reynolds... if those guys in the middle of the order start providing the kind of power that they've shown in the past they're capable of, then this offense will be very, very good... of course, with Reynolds in the mix they're also gonna give us a ton of strikeouts... we O's fans are rooting for him to strike out less than 200 times, which would be his best in some years... but that's OK, provided he can also give the team 35-40 homers... so far, he's proven to be a fair to middling defensive 3rd baseman...

Yeah, I'm a little giddy over the Birds' start, especially after the way they finished their last 57 games last year (34-23, nearly a .600 winning percentage)... but I'm also realistic, this team hasn't been a contender in a very, very long time, and it's still operating at a distinct financial disadvantage vis a vis the Sox and Yank-mees...

[RoyTheHammer]

That's because you're very young, LOL...

In the 70s, the Baltimore Orioles were the model for how a successful franchise should be run... their farm system was the one that everybody else copied...

Of course, that was all before Peter Freakin' Angelos... and before baseball set up their free agency rules so that the Yankees and Red Sox could buy all the free agent talent available every year (MLB's salary cap rules are a complete joke)...

As an old guy, I can still vividly remember Palmer, McNally, Cuellar and Dobson, who only did something that has never been done, before or since-- 4 20 game winners on one staff, in one season...



Obviously, I was being playful with my original response, but I will go out on a limb right now and predict that the Birds will win 90 games this year, which might or might not make them playoff contenders... you heard it here first; I mean, they're winning games right now without any offensive contribution of note from their brand new big boppers-- Vlad Guerrero, Derek Lee and Mark Reynolds... if those guys in the middle of the order start providing the kind of power that they've shown in the past they're capable of, then this offense will be very, very good... of course, with Reynolds in the mix they're also gonna give us a ton of strikeouts... we O's fans are rooting for him to strike out less than 200 times, which would be his best in some years... but that's OK, provided he can also give the team 35-40 homers... so far, he's proven to be a fair to middling defensive 3rd baseman...

Yeah, I'm a little giddy over the Birds' start, especially after the way they finished their last 57 games last year (34-23, nearly a .600 winning percentage)... but I'm also realistic, this team hasn't been a contender in a very, very long time, and it's still operating at a distinct financial disadvantage vis a vis the Sox and Yank-mees...

90 games is alot.. but i wouldn't rule it out. Showalter is doing a nice job there.

[GloryDaysRBack]

How 'bout we talk about a REAL team??

I refer, of course, to the unbeaten, never even been behind for an inning this season Baltimore Orioles... the team with a team ERA of 1.0, while the starters' combined ERA is under 0.7...


Break up the Birds... :D

Do you live in MD? I'm right in Rockville

[silverbear]

90 games is alot.. but i wouldn't rule it out. Showalter is doing a nice job there.

Mostly, he's got the guys believing in themselves, and it's a beautiful thing to see...

[silverbear]

Do you live in MD? I'm right in Rockville

I live in Virginia, but I became an O's fan way back in 1965, when I was living in Hagerstown... I'm maybe 2-2 and a half hours from where you live...

[Patton]

- I really don't like the construction of the batting order. There's just no reason at all for Jason Heyward to be hitting 6th and Nate McLouth 2nd. Heyward's losing at bats because of it. Why would anyone want possibly the best offensive player on the team and a guy that OBP'd nearly .400 last year to lose at bats? Just really boggles my mind. This team is better than last year's, but Bobby Cox had Heyward in the right spot. The two hole was perfect. When the top of your order can't get on base, you're inhibiting your ability to score. So the guy with the near .400 OBP should be lower in the order.

- One more lineup construction grievance I had was hitting Freddie Freeman 2nd on Wed. against the Brewers. That was just a brutal decision. He didn't get on base once in the entire game and has basically struggled thus far this year. There was no logical reason to slot him there.

- Beachy over Minor looks like the right decision. Minor doesn't seem to have quite the polish of Beachy. He has more upside since he's a big, left handed pitcher, but it seems like Beachy's a better option for the team right now and it keeps Minor's service time down.

- As far as the team needing another bat, they really need someone who can tier up lefties. Everyone who plays regularly is better at hitting right handed pitching, even the righties like Uggla, Prado and Gonzalez. So basically, when the team sees a left handed starter, they are automatically worse off. This will be less of an issue, if Uggla can start raking. While he does have a better split against right handers, he can hit lefties well too. Aside from the homers, he's had a slow start though.

[Sam I Am]

Obviously, I was being playful with my original response, but I will go out on a limb right now and predict that the Birds will win 90 games this year,

We will see. Buck Showalter is a great coach, but he is over-barring and high strung. He tends to make players hate him after a while. He took two teams to the brink of a World Series, but they had to can him to actually get over the hump. (Yankees and Diamondbacks)

I think he could have done better in Texas, but Tom Hicks didn't figure out he was being an idiot personal wise until after he fired Showalter.

So, you want the O's to win? Let him build the team up this year and probably at least next year, then can him. That will be your best shot.

[Temo]

McLouth, Uggla, and Freeman need to get it going and the Braves in general need to start stringing some hits together. I'd take 4-3 for the opening road trip, though.

[Patton]

I don't expect anything out of Freeman right now other than quality defense. I've liked his approach so far and I think the offense will come, but it'll be a process.

[DIAF]

what the......Atlanta Braves thread on a Dallas Cowboys forum?

I am first and foremost a Rangers fan, but I moved out here in the early 90s and have adopted the Braves as my 2nd favorite team. Currently I live about 3 miles from the stadium and get to about 10-15 home games a year.

Freakin' Nate McOut. And why the hell is Heyward batting sixth. blehhhhhhh

[GloryDaysRBack]

Bats finally came around last night..Braves pound Cliff Lee and move to 4-4..

This Braves pen absolutely has to be the best in baseball..if there is a better pen out there I'd like to see it..

I am so disappointed with Tommy Hanson right now..he needs to get his stuff together..

Offensively, I still think this team needs to add a big bat somewhere

[Muhast]

Bats finally came around last night..Braves pound Cliff Lee and move to 4-4..

This Braves pen absolutely has to be the best in baseball..if there is a better pen out there I'd like to see it..

I am so disappointed with Tommy Hanson right now..he needs to get his stuff together..

Offensively, I still think this team needs to add a big bat somewhere

Kimbrall is the man!

But today was embarrassing. 10-2. :(

[Temo]

I hate the way Fredi manages the bullpen.

[Patton]

I hate the way Fredi manages the bullpen.

George Sherrill seeing a righty period is inexcusable. He let him face two in a row...lol

And Scott Linebrink with the bases loaded was equally horrible. He's a guy that's been devalued around the league because he has a serious problem with giving up the long ball. Gonzalez deemed it okay for him to pitch with the bases loaded. Ugh. I really tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but Gonzalez's decision making is it really difficult.

[Joe Realist]

George Sherrill seeing a righty period is inexcusable. He let him face two in a row...lol

And Scott Linebrink with the bases loaded was equally horrible. He's a guy that's been devalued around the league because he has a serious problem with giving up the long ball. Gonzalez deemed it okay for him to pitch with the bases loaded. Ugh. I really tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but Gonzalez's decision making is it really difficult.

http://media.philly.com/images/040911_ruiz_400.jpg (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20110409_Carlos_Ruiz_has_big_day_off_bench_as_Phil lies_beat_Braves.html)
Chooch!!!

[Temo]

George Sherrill seeing a righty period is inexcusable. He let him face two in a row...lol

And Scott Linebrink with the bases loaded was equally horrible. He's a guy that's been devalued around the league because he has a serious problem with giving up the long ball. Gonzalez deemed it okay for him to pitch with the bases loaded. Ugh. I really tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but Gonzalez's decision making is it really difficult.

Right now I'm hanging on the fact that no one on the Braves is substantially over-performing their seasonal expectations, Uggla is severely under-performing and due to break out, and the entire Phillies team is batting above career lines so far.

[Patton]

Speaking of Uggla specifically, his career line in May is his best and April is his worst. So if he starts to hit like he should with Prado, Chipper and McCann in front of him, the team is going to score a ton of runs. I get the feeling that April and May will probably play out a lot like last year. Right now they just have to keep their heads above water and then they'll take off next month.

One thing I've noticed about this team offensively that's isolated from one player though is the lack of walks. This team isn't walking at near the rate that they did last year. That's troubling because that was probably their best quality offensively. Now the team has faced a number of lefties (who they struggle with) and pitchers with good control thus far, but that's something to monitor.

[RoyTheHammer]

I tried to warn you guys about Uggla. To be honest, he's never been that great of a hitter. He'll give you some power numbers, but it seems most seasons he finishes with at best a .250 average.

[Patton]

I tried to warn you guys about Uggla. To be honest, he's never been that great of a hitter. He'll give you some power numbers, but it seems most seasons he finishes with at best a .250 average.

I don't think anyone is worried about his average. He's solid at getting on base and that's much more important than average. We need his power more than anything. The Braves were about just about the middle of the league in slugging last year with only one 20 home run hitter (McCann). On the flip side they had the highest on base percentage of any team in the NL and 4th in the league overall. With more power in the lineup, you conceivably drive home more baserunners.

[RoyTheHammer]

I don't think anyone is worried about his average. He's solid at getting on base and that's much more important than average. We need his power more than anything. The Braves were about just about the middle of the league in slugging last year with only one 20 home run hitter (McCann). On the flip side they had the highest on base percentage of any team in the NL and 4th in the league overall. With more power in the lineup, you conceivably drive home more baserunners.

You might be a little concerned about his average because the more he puts the ball in play, the more runs he'll drive in.

He still strikes out alot every year, and it seems every other year he's terrible with RISP.

[casmith07]

I tried to warn you guys about Uggla. To be honest, he's never been that great of a hitter. He'll give you some power numbers, but it seems most seasons he finishes with at best a .250 average.

That's why there's 9 guys in a batting order. Everyone has a particular role that you need in order to get the W.

I like Uggla a hell of a lot more than guys like Troy Glaus, Garrett Anderson, and Derrek Lee. Absolutely brutal watching those guys the last few years try and play as "big bats."

But I agree with someone above -- there's no reason why Heyward should be in the 6 spot. In my opinion, I would have it like this:

Prado
Heyward
Jones
McCann
Uggla
Gonzalez
McLouth
Freeman
Pitcher

This way you can get on base/score early, and then the guys at the bottom of the order can hopefully make a little noise to get someone like Prado back up to the plate at the top of the order with 1 or two guys on base. With Prado hitting well and getting on base a lot, you put pitchers in a bind with Heyward, Chipper, McCann and Uggla coming up 4 in a row with the possibility of McLouth or Freeman on base with the pitcher sac bunting them ahead to 2nd or 3rd.

But, Fredi Gonzalez is a pro. I'm just a guy on the internet :)

[Temo]

You might be a little concerned about his average because the more he puts the ball in play, the more runs he'll drive in.

He still strikes out alot every year, and it seems every other year he's terrible with RISP.

He's averaged 96 RBIs per 162 games over his career.

[DIAF]

You can live with strikeouts and a low BA if the guy is getting on base. Dan Uggla currently has a higher career OBP than the great Ryne Sandberg. .350 OBP, 30+ homers and 90+ RBI at 2nd base? Yes please.

[RoyTheHammer]

You can live with strikeouts and a low BA if the guy is getting on base. Dan Uggla currently has a higher career OBP than the great Ryne Sandberg. .350 OBP, 30+ homers and 90+ RBI at 2nd base? Yes please.

He's a good player.. but i don't think he'll be as good as many Braves fans are expecting.

[casmith07]

He's a good player.. but i don't think he'll be as good as many Braves fans are expecting.

What are people expecting? I'm not expecting an all-star at 2nd base. Just expecting some actual production in the middle of the batting order instead of a bunch of stiffs.

[DIAF]

I'm expecting .260/30/95 and an OBP in the .340-.360 range. In other words, right around his career average. Optimistic that he'll outperform that because he'll be playing half his games in Turner.

[RoyTheHammer]

I'm expecting .260/30/95 and an OBP in the .340-.360 range. In other words, right around his career average. Optimistic that he'll outperform that because he'll be playing half his games in Turner.

I'd say that's reasonable. I figured alot of Braves fans would be expecting an all star out of him.

[DIAF]

I'd say that's reasonable. I figured alot of Braves fans would be expecting an all star out of him.

Uhm, those ARE all-star numbers, lol.

[RoyTheHammer]

Uhm, those ARE all-star numbers, lol.

How many people who hit .250 to .260 make the all star team?

[Patton]

You have a really antiquated view of baseball, if you think average means much. On base percentage or on base plus slugging are much better metrics.

And Dan Uggla himself has been an All-Star batting .260.

[RoyTheHammer]

You have a really antiquated view of baseball, if you think average means much. On base percentage or on base plus slugging are much better metrics.

And Dan Uggla himself has been an All-Star batting .260.

You didn't answer the question..

Im just saying.. imagine how many runs he could drive in if he hit well with RISP, or didn't strike out 150 times a year, and made more contact. He's clearly a good player, im not debating that fact.

[Muhast]

You didn't answer the question..

Im just saying.. imagine how many runs he could drive in if he hit well with RISP, or didn't strike out 150 times a year, and made more contact. He's clearly a good player, im not debating that fact.


You could say this about tons of players.

Adam Dunn for instance.

If he didn't strike out as much as he did he could potentially hit around 50-60 hrs a year.

[RoyTheHammer]

You could say this about tons of players.

Adam Dunn for instance.

If he didn't strike out as much as he did he could potentially hit around 50-60 hrs a year.

..and that's why tons of players, including Adam Dunn, arn't All Stars. Thank you for proving my point.

Uggla is good, but he's not great. If you're expecting an all star, you're going to be disappointed, imo. That's all i was saying.

[DIAF]

How many people who hit .250 to .260 make the all star team?

When they hit 30 homers and drive in 100, AND play second base? One of the more offensively-challenged positions on the diamond? Seriously?

Hell, Dan Uggla himself has made the All-Star team twice.

[RoyTheHammer]

When they hit 30 homers and drive in 100, AND play second base? One of the more offensively-challenged positions on the diamond? Seriously?

Hell, Dan Uggla himself has made the All-Star team twice.

And the first year he made it he hit around .285, and the second year, he had a great first half.

There's alot of players who have probably made the all star team once or twice, that you still wouldn't call "all star players".

A career .250 hitter certainly doesn't deserve that title. Uggla is Adam Dunn from the right side. Power guy, but strikes out too often and doesn't make good contact most of the time.

[DIAF]

And the first year he made it he hit around .285, and the second year, he had a great first half.

There's alot of players who have probably made the all star team once or twice, that you still wouldn't call "all star players".

A career .250 hitter certainly doesn't deserve that title. Uggla is Adam Dunn from the right side. Power guy, but strikes out too often and doesn't make good contact most of the time.

Oh man, I love baseball arguments!

If that career .250 hitter also averages 30 homers and 100 rbi for his career though (and makes mutliple all-star teams) i'd say he was an All-Star. ESPECIALLY if he plays 2nd base. I mean come on, Luis Castillo is a 3-time All-Star at 2nd base! You wanna tell me Uggla isn't??

Just off the top of my head, here's some guys that had middling batting averages (hit in the .250s/.260s) for their careers and were considered all-star/all-pros in their day.

Matt Williams (5x All Star)
Daryl Strawberry (8x All Star)
Cecil Fielder (3x All Star)
Joe Carter (5x All Star)
Gary Carter (11x All Star)
Mike Schmidt (12x All Star)
Dale Murphy (7x All Star)

All those guys were all-stars, no matter what the definition. Just like Uggla. Is he an all-time great? No, at least he doesn't appear to be on that track. He was a late bloomer and is already north of 30 years old. But 30 homers and 100 RBI out of a middle infielder? That's all-star material!

[Muhast]

And the first year he made it he hit around .285, and the second year, he had a great first half.

There's alot of players who have probably made the all star team once or twice, that you still wouldn't call "all star players".

A career .250 hitter certainly doesn't deserve that title. Uggla is Adam Dunn from the right side. Power guy, but strikes out too often and doesn't make good contact most of the time.


He actually bats .262 for his career. (12 points is a big difference)

He has had 2 years where he batted in the 280's out of 5. One of those was last year where he hit .287.

Would you like to see him strike out less? Yes. But getting that type of production (30+ hrs a year and 90+ rbis) out of a 2nd basemen is unreal.

[RoyTheHammer]

He actually bats .262 for his career. (12 points is a big difference)

He has had 2 years where he batted in the 280's out of 5. One of those was last year where he hit .287.

Would you like to see him strike out less? Yes. But getting that type of production (30+ hrs a year and 90+ rbis) out of a 2nd basemen is unreal.

Yawn.. look, i get it, 30 hr's/90 rbi's.. sheesh.


The point is, he's Adam Dunn from the right side, power but not a really good hitter. I understand average isn't everything, but with his poor average, high number of strikeouts, and fluctuating ability with RISP each year.. he's not a guy i would look to to turn my team around, or to give me that extra boost from a winning team to an instant contender.

[Muhast]

Yawn.. look, i get it, 30 hr's/90 rbi's.. sheesh.


The point is, he's Adam Dunn from the right side, power but not a really good hitter. I understand average isn't everything, but with his poor average, high number of strikeouts, and fluctuating ability with RISP each year.. he's not a guy i would look to to turn my team around, or to give me that extra boost from a winning team to an instant contender.


We had zero power last year, we needed a big bat and he fits the bill.

[RoyTheHammer]

We had zero power last year, we needed a big bat and he fits the bill.

Fair enough.. there's nothing wrong with that. He's an above average RH power bat, i agree.

[DIAF]

Yawn.. look, i get it, 30 hr's/90 rbi's.. sheesh.


The point is, he's Adam Dunn from the right side, power but not a really good hitter. I understand average isn't everything, but with his poor average, high number of strikeouts, and fluctuating ability with RISP each year.. he's not a guy i would look to to turn my team around, or to give me that extra boost from a winning team to an instant contender.

If he really WAS Adam Dunn from the right side, he'd be one of the best offensive 2nd basemen in the HISTORY of the game. Adam Dunn is an absolute offensive beast, even with the low average and high Ks.

I like how you go from dismissing stats to then quoting stats as to why Uggla isn't a good hitter! Also, lets not forget the position he plays.

This is the MLB League-average 2nd baseman in 2010 -
12 home runs, 57 RBIs, 72 runs scored, 10 stolen bases and a .276 batting average (from ESPN)

This is Dan Uggla, career 162-game averages.
32 home runs, 96 RBIs, 103 runs scored, 4 stolen bases, .262 batting average.

That my friends, is an all star.

He's also not that bad with RISP. Over the past 3 years (that's as far back as ESPN's stat splits will let you go), he's hit .260 with RISP and .269 with runners on. In other words, right at his career average.

I love stats!

[RoyTheHammer]

If he really WAS Adam Dunn from the right side, he'd be one of the best offensive 2nd basemen in the HISTORY of the game. Adam Dunn is an absolute offensive beast, even with the low average and high Ks.

I like how you go from dismissing stats to then quoting stats as to why Uggla isn't a good hitter! Also, lets not forget the position he plays.

This is the MLB League-average 2nd baseman in 2010 -
12 home runs, 57 RBIs, 72 runs scored, 10 stolen bases and a .276 batting average (from ESPN)

This is Dan Uggla, career 162-game averages.
32 home runs, 96 RBIs, 103 runs scored, 4 stolen bases, .262 batting average.

That my friends, is an all star.

He's also not that bad with RISP. Over the past 3 years (that's as far back as ESPN's stat splits will let you go), he's hit .260 with RISP and .269 with runners on. In other words, right at his career average.

I love stats!

I've been quoting stats since my first post about this.. don't know what you're talking about. I haven't dismissed any stats as not being valuable information.

RISP:

2011: .000
2010: .273
2009: .225
2008: .290
2007: .199
2006: .267

Career: .247

That's what i meant by fluctuating. Seems every other year he's horrible with RISP. So this year isn't looking good for Braves fans. Maybe he can buck the trend.

[Patton]

First series win since opening week. Being stretch coming up on the west coast. They need to somehow play .500 ball out there.

I really hate to see Peter Moylan go to the DL. He's going to miss the entire road trip. They brought up Jairo Ascencio to take his spot, but what I suspect this will mean is George Sherrill and Scott Linebrink will have to take on higher leverage situations. Gotta hope for the best, but that's not good news. As expected Sherrill looks great against the lefties, but I don't have any confidence in Fredi deploying him correctly. We shall see how this turns out.

[DIAF]

after today's game, I don't think Freddi knows how to do anything correctly. Gonzalez bunting to get the runner to second for Johnny Minor League CF and BROOKS CONRAD? what?

[Temo]

So the braves are starting to turn it around, finally.

[RoyTheHammer]

How's the All Star Uggla doing?

[Patton]

Give him time. His BABIP is .176 right now. He normally BABIPs in the .270s to .330. He's going to have have a ridiculous stretch where balls start dropping for him anytime now. Over a baseball season these things normalize. His power is almost normal, but he's having bad luck. I would suspect May is the month where the turnaround happens. April is historically Uggla's worst month and May his best.

[tko112204]

Dan Uggla is a 15 WAR player since 2006. I'm pretty sure he'll be fine.

A .176 BABIP is unsustainable, and there's no reason to think a guy that has hit 30+ home runs for 4 straight years is going to stop hitting for power.

And yeah, being compared to Adam Dunn as an offensive player is a pretty high compliment. Even if Uggla doesn't approach Dunn's OBP.

[RoyTheHammer]

Dan Uggla is a 15 WAR player since 2006. I'm pretty sure he'll be fine.

A .176 BABIP is unsustainable, and there's no reason to think a guy that has hit 30+ home runs for 4 straight years is going to stop hitting for power.

And yeah, being compared to Adam Dunn as an offensive player is a pretty high compliment. Even if Uggla doesn't approach Dunn's OBP.

So he is averaging around 3 WAR a season.. you consider that good? Seems very average to me.

Also, Adam Dunn has had a 10 year career and made the All Star team one time. He's not a great player. Its a fair comparison between he and Uggla though.

[DIAF]

So he is averaging around 3 WAR a season.. you consider that good? Seems very average to me.

Also, Adam Dunn has had a 10 year career and made the All Star team one time. He's not a great player. Its a fair comparison between he and Uggla though.

Adam Dunn's stats would beg to differ. Voters and writers are all so hung up on sexy stats and all his career he's played crowded positions (OF and 1B). The great Mark Texiera has only ever made the all-star team twice because of similar reasons, and most would consider him a great player. Also, Adam Dunn plays terrible defense. So there's that as well. But that Adam Dunn hasn't made more all-star teams is absolutely criminal. Averaging nearly 100 runs/40 homers/100 rbi a year, while maintaining an OBP of .380 and slugging .518. Yowzas!

[tko112204]

So he is averaging around 3 WAR a season.. you consider that good? Seems very average to me.

Also, Adam Dunn has had a 10 year career and made the All Star team one time. He's not a great player. Its a fair comparison between he and Uggla though.


So 4 WAR is average and All-Star Games matter? Ok.

I think we're done here.

[RoyTheHammer]

So 4 WAR is average and All-Star Games matter? Ok.

I think we're done here.

2006 to 2010 is 5 seasons, so divide 15 WAR by 5 seasons and that's 3.

Your welcome.

..and yes, 3 WAR a year is about as average as it gets. Hell, the league leaders in WAR already have 2 right now and we arn't even a month into the season yet. lol

You're right.. i think we are done here. Lets talk again when he passes the Mendoza line.

[tko112204]

2006 to 2010 is 5 seasons, so divide 15 WAR by 5 seasons and that's 3.

Your welcome.

..and yes, 3 WAR a year is about as average as it gets. Hell, the league leaders in WAR already have 2 right now and we arn't even a month into the season yet. lol

You're right.. i think we are done here. Lets talk again when he passes the Mendoza line.


Since no one is arguing that Dan Uggla is a premier defensive player, let's look at it this way:

OPS since '06: .818, .805, .874, .813, .877
oWAR since '06: 3.5, 3, 4.2, 3.4, 4.7= 18.8
oWBA since '06: .347, .345, .372, .354, .381

That is an all-star. No way around it. No, he's not as good as Utley WAS, or as good as Cano, but I'm not sure he isn't better than every other 2B in baseball. PEDroia has a an argument, but they are very different hitters. Uggla tons more power, Pedroia better BA, but about the same OBP. I would say they're about equal. So he's top 5 easy.

What say you?

[DIAF]

Freddi Gonzalez sucks. Derek Lowe is pitching on one leg and OFlaherty has been warming in the pen but yet he is leaving him out there.

Grabbing back of leg and hopping around and STILL FREDDI HASNT GONE TO THE PEN.

I swear to God.

[casmith07]

Freddi Gonzalez sucks. Derek Lowe is pitching on one leg and OFlaherty has been warming in the pen but yet he is leaving him out there.

Grabbing back of leg and hopping around and STILL FREDDI HASNT GONE TO THE PEN.

I swear to God.

5-0 shutout of the Phils. Stop whining.

[DIAF]

5-0 shutout of the Phils. Stop whining.

No thanks to Freddi Gonzalez, that's for sure.

[tko112204]

No thanks to Freddi Gonzalez, that's for sure.


I love it when he brings in relievers just to get pitchers out. That's my favorite.

[DIAF]

I love it when he brings in relievers just to get pitchers out. That's my favorite.

Or when there's a runner on 1st with 1 out, and he has Gonzalez sacrifice the runner to 2nd for Brooks Conrad and Brandon Hicks. Brilliant!

[28 Joker]

I'm a Braves fan.

Can someone please tell me why the Braves paid Dan Uggla $ 62 million dollars over 5 years, and he's 31. He's a super common. He's not Chipper Jones, so his drop off is probably going to be faster and steeper.

Uggla will earn $ 9 million this year, and $ 13 million over the next 4 years. He's a super common who looks like he is going to be a strike out machine and an expensive bust. Again, he's not Chipper Jones.

He struck out 3 times tonight and twice with the bases loaded (one out).

Frank Wren is gong to rue the day that he signed this guy and gave him all that money. That is highway robbery. The Braves should know better.

I was a big Andruw Jones fan, and they still have not replaced him.

Venters is a stud, and the Yankees and Redsox are going to pull up a bank fault to him, but Dan Uggla is going to have all his money. LOL

Martin Prado is a stud. He's their best player.

The Braves have some nice young talent, but giving all that money to Uggla was out of character and a big mistake.

It's been two months of a 5 year deal, but it sure looks uggla now, and the guy is 31 and a super common in opinion.

[DIAF]

I'm a Braves fan.

Can someone please tell me why the Braves paid Dan Uggla $ 62 million dollars over 5 years, and he's 31. He's a super common. He's not Chipper Jones, so his drop off is probably going to be faster and steeper.

Uggla will earn $ 9 million this year, and $ 13 million over the next 4 years. He's a super common who looks like he is going to be a strike out machine and an expensive bust. Again, he's not Chipper Jones.

He struck out 3 times tonight and twice with the bases loaded (one out).

Frank Wren is gong to rue the day that he signed this guy and gave him all that money. That is highway robbery. The Braves should know better.

I was a big Andruw Jones fan, and they still have not replaced him.

Venters is a stud, and the Yankees and Redsox are going to pull up a bank fault to him, but Dan Uggla is going to have all his money. LOL

Martin Prado is a stud. He's their best player.

The Braves have some nice young talent, but giving all that money to Uggla was out of character and a big mistake.

It's been two months of a 5 year deal, but it sure looks uggla now, and the guy is 31 and a super common in opinion.

Oh please. He'll be fine. This isn't like football where a guy is washed up at 31, for a baseball player that's still in his prime. He's not striking out any more than he usually does, in fact his K% is down from his career norms. His BABIP is an extremely unlucky .219 which is unsustainable. He's just got to start getting some of these balls he's hitting to drop in for hits. He's got 31 hits and 15 of them have been for extra bases.

[RoyTheHammer]

Oh please. He'll be fine. This isn't like football where a guy is washed up at 31, for a baseball player that's still in his prime. He's not striking out any more than he usually does, in fact his K% is down from his career norms. His BABIP is an extremely unlucky .219 which is unsustainable. He's just got to start getting some of these balls he's hitting to drop in for hits. He's got 31 hits and 15 of them have been for extra bases.

:laugh2:

So true.. so true.

[28 Joker]

Oh please. He'll be fine. This isn't like football where a guy is washed up at 31, for a baseball player that's still in his prime. He's not striking out any more than he usually does, in fact his K% is down from his career norms. His BABIP is an extremely unlucky .219 which is unsustainable. He's just got to start getting some of these balls he's hitting to drop in for hits. He's got 31 hits and 15 of them have been for extra bases.


31 can still be prime for football players, too.

Uggla had a great day today. I was glad to see him hit that homer and get his hits and score some runs. However, I"m very skeptical of his contract and the amount of money that he is going to get over the next 5 years.

However, he's over paid like many super commons in baseball. For his money, he better be Roberto Alomar, but he isn't.

Roberto Alomar was a flat out stud.

[Temo]

Brian. McCann.

That is all.

[RoyTheHammer]

Well a couple weeks have passed, time to check in on our newest Atlanta multi millionaire.

Over the Mendoza line yet?

[28 Joker]

That super common is hitting .190 and has struck out 37 times. He is ranked 91st in batting average. :)

Then, you have the over rated Freddie Freeman (his swing is too long and loopy with his hands). He's hitting a hot .236 and has 35 Ks. If he doesn't fix that, he will be a bust. I'm really not seeing the hype with this player, and he doesn't look as good as Ryan Klesco. They will be looking for a first baseman in a trade. Oh, wait. Uggla has all the money.

I've always been a big time Chipper Jones fan, but that old man is hitting .266. Plus, his leg is due to fall of at any moment.

That uber super common Nate McClouth, he is hitting a robust .244. He likes to drop routine pop flies and miss the cutoff man. He can bunt, though. 29 year old, uber supper common...Man, I miss Andruw Jones. There is no telling how many runs he saved. Best CF of all time...

Alex Gonzalez is hitting .256. At least, he isn't an error machine this year, but he is 34.

Jason Heyward is hitting .214. Yikes. If he doesn't get it going, the Braves are done for sure. He has a shoulder issue. I do really like him, but it's looking like a really bad year for him. Is he the next Francour or Franbust? They probably should have kept Francour, because all these other guys can't hit, either. There is something for sure wrong with Heyward, because he looked liked a for sure super star to be, last year. He didn't hit in the playoffs, though.

Craig Kimbrel has blown 4 saves, and more are probably coming. That is too many. The season isn't a full two months old.

The minor league pitcher that is so highly rated doesn't look like anything special to me. Avery looked like a stud early.

Other than that, it's all peachy.

Jurrjens has pitched really good, but the team can't hit and gave him no support last night.

The Braves are going to finish in third place this year unless they start hitting the baseball. They are just lucky that they played the Phillies 6 times in two weeks and beat them 4 times. By the time they play again, the Braves will be in big trouble.

To summarize:

The makeup of this team is just bad. Too many strike out kings and pop corn artists, no speed (except for Heyward), two old pitchers, and two good, young RHPs... You have an old Chipper Jones. He can't hit left handed anymore. It's been that way for a while, the decline left handed which was the heart and soul of his power. You have a 31 year old, $12.2 million dollar super common (Uggla) hitting .190, the way over rated Freeman hitting .236, Heyward hitting .214, the closer blowing premium leads, the 29 year old, uber super common (Nate McClouth) hitting .244 (Will the Pirates please take him back?), a 34 year old SS hitting .256, ect...

Can we recall the GM? :)

The Braves are not as good as they thought they were going to be, and they sure don't look like they are just one 31 year old, $ 12.2 million dollar, super common away from winning it all.

[Muhast]

41 freeman and uggla are starting to come around now. In fact the braves are playing great baseball now. Only 2 behind the phillies and heyward will finally be back in a week

[Kangaroo]

I noticed the braves have a pretty strong following here, so i figured id get this thread going...3-1 to start the season..just a few bullet point thoughts of mine

- I hate Nate Mclouth
- Very impressed w Kimbrell as the closer
- This team could use another bat for sure
- Very happy w the bullpen overall
- Starting pitching is strong
- Hanson needs to be better
- We really need a new CF..preferably one that can swing the bat..I don't see any other position on this team where a change can be made that will also improve us offensively...not a realistic one at least
- Chipper is the man

I am a Braves fan but I do not follow baseball much any more so i have not followed any of the new guys recently. between the strike and how Baseball is structured I have just lost all interest in baseball

[Muhast]

41 freeman and uggla are starting to come around now. In fact the braves are playing great baseball now. Only 2 behind the phillies and heyward will finally be back in a week

The team is playing really well with Jordan Shaffer instead of McClouth.

Not only that but McCann has 8 HRs in his last 20 games.

Freeman is hitting in the 350 range over the last 20.

Chipper is hitting from the left side, and Hanson/Jurrgens have been almost unhittable.

[28 Joker]

The team is playing really well with Jordan Shaffer instead of McClouth.

Not only that but McCann has 8 HRs in his last 20 games.

Freeman is hitting in the 350 range over the last 20.

Chipper is hitting from the left side, and Hanson/Jurrgens have been almost unhittable.


You are exactly right. I thought they were going to fall out of it for sure, but some how they stayed in it. I've been watching some games. Shaffer has been a big plus, and he catches everything in CF. They need him to stick for sure. He has played better than his average. He walks some. Plus, he got hit in the face. Freddie Freeman is tearing it up. I saw him rake a LHP and knock in a key run and he kept his front shoulder in. His swing doesn't seem to be too loopy now. I saw that bomb he hit the other night, and he has recorded some multi-hit games. They need him to keep it up. They are going to need Jason Heyward back (and hitting) if they want to dethrone the Phillies.

Uggla had some hits this weekend. His average is beyond ugly. Hopefully, he can get it up. I still wouldn't have paid him all that money. I still think it's crazy. I hope he does well.

Chipper Jones turned back the clock left handed, recently. Chipper's best side was always his left side during his peak years.

Jonny Venters is a flat out stud, and that pitching will keep them in it to the bitter end, I think.

The Phillies are old, and if the Braves hit, they can win that division.

Mike Minor pitched a good game. Hanson looked good today. Jurrgens is CY Young worthy right now. Kimbrel has done a pretty good job, and the umpire flat out robbed him the other night on a strike three, out three situation.

[28 Joker]

The team is playing really well with Jordan Shaffer instead of McClouth.

Not only that but McCann has 8 HRs in his last 20 games.

Freeman is hitting in the 350 range over the last 20.

Chipper is hitting from the left side, and Hanson/Jurrgens have been almost unhittable.


Marin Prado has won some games. They can't afford to have him out. When he got hurt last year, that killed them. Losing Chipper Jones was a killer, too. Then, Wagner...

Did you flip the channels between the Titans/Cowboys game and the Braves/Giants game last fall?

Oh, joy... :)

Colombo spiking the ball and doing a Peter Pan and the long kickoff return and the errors at second base... The Giants scored all their runs off the errors. The Braves were one strike away from being up 2-1.

If Bobby Cox had last year's bull pen or Venters, he would have two hands full of World Series rings.

[Temo]

Hanson's beard and his game are growing quite well.

[RoyTheHammer]

41 freeman and uggla are starting to come around now. In fact the braves are playing great baseball now. Only 2 behind the phillies and heyward will finally be back in a week

Oh is Uggla starting to come around now? Him and his .183 average?

:laugh2:

[DIAF]

Oh is Uggla starting to come around now? Him and his .183 average?

:laugh2:

Well, he's 5 of his last 11 with a homer and a double, along with 3 walks. Nothing like the Houston pitching staff to shake out of a slump.

[jimmy40]

seems like there's more Braves fans in this thread than I ever see at a Braves' home game on tv.

[DIAF]

seems like there's more Braves fans in this thread than I ever see at a Braves' home game on tv.

There's several reasons for that.

1. Atlanta sports fans are far too casual. They show up late, leave early.
2. The fanbase that attends games is too suburban. The crowd is overwhelmingly wealthier professionals and their families that all live 15-45 miles outside of the city
3. Stadium isn't on MARTA line - you've got to take the train and THEN take a shuttle to get out there
4. Stadium is in a bad area - Turner is right in the middle of neighborhoods that cant afford to go to games, and places where you dont want to be driving around looking for parking. No other attractions to draw pre-game/post-game crowds (like bars, restaraunts, parks, etc.)

[RoyTheHammer]

Well, he's 5 of his last 11 with a homer and a double, along with 3 walks. Nothing like the Houston pitching staff to shake out of a slump.

I wouldn't call going 5 for his last 11 "starting to come around" when he's still hitting .183 on the season and is on pace for around 55 RBI's.

[DIAF]

I wouldn't call going 5 for his last 11 "starting to come around" when he's still hitting .183 on the season and is on pace for around 55 RBI's.

What would you call it then? Don't let your dislike of the guy cloud your judgement. Shaking off a slump IS "starting to come around". Of course his numbers are still terrible, he's not hit for nearly two and a half months. Gotta start somewhere. Even if he were 11 for his last 11, he wouldnt be over the Mendoza line.

[RoyTheHammer]

What would you call it then? Don't let your dislike of the guy cloud your judgement. Shaking off a slump IS "starting to come around". Of course his numbers are still terrible, he's not hit for nearly two and a half months. Gotta start somewhere. Even if he were 11 for his last 11, he wouldnt be over the Mendoza line.

You're gonna take a sample size of 11 at bats and say he did well in those and say that means he's starting to turn his season around?

Please.. its going to take a hell of alot more than that for him to climb back to putting up a respectable season. More likely he's going to turn out to be a huge bust in his first season of that huge contract they paid him. He's simply never been that great a hitter, like i said before.

[DIAF]

You're gonna take a sample size of 11 at bats and say he did well in those and say that means he's starting to turn his season around?

Please.. its going to take a hell of alot more than that for him to climb back to putting up a respectable season. More likely he's going to turn out to be a huge bust in his first season of that huge contract they paid him. He's simply never been that great a hitter, like i said before.

uh, if you go 5 of 11 when your last 5 hits came in the span of NINETEEN DAYS, then yes, I think that qualifies as "coming around".

I pretty much said his numbers were still awful and it would take a sustained effort to even get his batting average over the mendoza line. And then you replied with nearly the exact same thing, as if I had implied the exact opposite. You hate this guy so much your making up arguments and putting them into people's mouths. Unreal.

[RoyTheHammer]

uh, if you go 5 of 11 when your last 5 hits came in the span of NINETEEN DAYS, then yes, I think that qualifies as "coming around".

I pretty much said his numbers were still awful and it would take a sustained effort to even get his batting average over the mendoza line. And then you replied with nearly the exact same thing, as if I had implied the exact opposite. You hate this guy so much your making up arguments and putting them into people's mouths. Unreal.

lol

I don't "hate" Danny Uggla at all. I've just always seen how overrated he is as a hitter, and he wasn't worth the huge contract he got. He's done nothing but prove me right all season long and now someone found a stretch where he went 5 for 11 and wants to use that tiny sample size to say he's coming around when he's still hitting .183 over a third of the season and is on pace for 50 rbi's. Its silly.

[CowboyDan]

The Phillies are old, and if the Braves hit, they can win that division.


*Cough*Best Record in Baseball*Cough*

[dillinger319]

So what's the deal with Jordan Schafer?

I expected him to be on the roster last year.. Does he have what it takes to stick around and contribute?

[Patton]

So what's the deal with Jordan Schafer?

I expected him to be on the roster last year.. Does he have what it takes to stick around and contribute?

He has good plate discipline, defense and speed, but it's questionable that he'll be able to hit enough to be an everyday player. I can't imagine the Braves will play him over McLouth and when McLouth is gone next year they will likely try to trade for a CF or get one in FA.

Basically, Schafer is a good spare outfielder. Think a Gregor Blanco type. The only reason why he looks passable is because the Braves have been so bad in center recently.

[Patton]

*Cough*Best Record in Baseball*Cough*

> June
> The Braves are winning the head to head with the Phillies.
> The Braves don't have a single outfielder they opened the season with as of this post (Heyward could be back in the lineup on Wed though).

[RoyTheHammer]

> June
> The Braves are winning the head to head with the Phillies.
> The Braves don't have a single outfielder they opened the season with as of this post (Heyward could be back in the lineup on Wed though).

Big deal. The Braves are up 5 wins to 4 losses. The Phillies played a third of the season without their best offensive player in Utley and the rest of the team has been in a season long slump almost except for Polanco and Victorino, who has spent time on the DL as well. Every team has their problems, injuries, etc.. but when it comes down to it the Phillies have the best record in baseball and the Braves are playing catch up, as they will all season.

[DIAF]

Big deal. The Braves are up 5 wins to 4 losses. The Phillies played a third of the season without their best offensive player in Utley and the rest of the team has been in a season long slump almost except for Polanco and Victorino, who has spent time on the DL as well. Every team has their problems, injuries, etc.. but when it comes down to it the Phillies have the best record in baseball and the Braves are playing catch up, as they will all season.

Season-long slump my rear. The Phillies have the 2nd-best team ERA in the NL, lead the NL in quality starts, are 2nd in the NL in strikeouts, 5th in BAA, and are dead last in base-on-balls issued.

Some slump.

I think it's hilarious that the Braves have the most retarded manager in the National League (BUNT! BUNT! oh god yes BUNT!), have fielded a AAA outfield for a good chunk of the season, had their big slugging free-agent acquisition hit under .200 for a third of a year, and yet were still 10 games over .500 at one point and 2 back of the Phillies.

[Patton]

In regards to the Phillies position players, slump is code for old and declining.

[CowboyDan]

In regards to the Phillies position players, slump is code for old and declining.

Let's see what the stats say....

Batting Avg.
Polanco .305
McCann .301

HRs
Howard 14
McCann 9

Hits
Polanco 79
Prado 71

2bs
Howard 15
Jones 19

3bs
Victarino 6
Braves Have No One in the top 40

RBIs
Howard 55
McCann 37

Stolen Bases
Rollins 14
Braves have No One in the top 40

Walks
Howard 33
Jones 34

Slug
Howard .486
McCann .489

OBP
Victorino .359
McCann .372

Errors
Howard 0
Freeman 3

Look at all those old, declining guys. What other stats would you like to compare? You're lucky to be within 2 games. But as you said, it's only June. By August you'll be 6 back.

[Temo]

People who don't know baseball amuse me.

[RoyTheHammer]

Season-long slump my rear. The Phillies have the 2nd-best team ERA in the NL, lead the NL in quality starts, are 2nd in the NL in strikeouts, 5th in BAA, and are dead last in base-on-balls issued.

Some slump.

I think it's hilarious that the Braves have the most retarded manager in the National League (BUNT! BUNT! oh god yes BUNT!), have fielded a AAA outfield for a good chunk of the season, had their big slugging free-agent acquisition hit under .200 for a third of a year, and yet were still 10 games over .500 at one point and 2 back of the Phillies.

You bring up their pitching stats when i talk about how their offense has been in a slump?

Flawless logic there..

[CowboyDan]

People who don't know baseball amuse me.

I agree.

[Patton]

People who don't know baseball amuse me.

I know. Someone literally used the RBI "stat" in this thread.

[CowboyDan]

I know. Someone literally used the RBI "stat" in this thread.

Braves fans don't count RBIs? Well then tell me, Mr. Gammons, what stats do you hold most precious ?

[Patton]

Braves fans don't count RBIs? Well then tell me, Mr. Gammons, what stats do you hold most precious ?

Certainly not counting stats. RBI's are almost literally based on where you're hitting in the lineup and the people hitting in spots close to you. It's purely a counting stat, it doesn't mean anything.

Regardless, the whole comment about the Phillies slumping is less about stats and the fact that the Phillies are performing at about the level that they should. For example, Ryan Howard OPSing .827 isn't a slump, as the other guy implied, it's about what you expect out of him at this point. The Braves, beyond probably Brian McCann and Chipper Jones haven't performed to the level that they've been projected to. It's more likely that they will play better than the Phillies playing better.

[CowboyDan]

Certainly not counting stats. RBI's are almost literally based on where you're hitting in the lineup and the people hitting in spots close to you. It's purely a counting stat, it doesn't mean anything.

Regardless, the whole comment about the Phillies slumping is less about stats and the fact that the Phillies are performing at about the level that they should. For example, Ryan Howard OPSing .827 isn't a slump, as the other guy implied, it's about what you expect out of him at this point. The Braves, beyond probably Brian McCann and Chipper Jones haven't performed to the level that they've been projected to. It's more likely that they will play better than the Phillies playing better.

I got news for you......when you're all on the same team RBI's gives you an indication of hitting, on base percentage and run production. But don't let my ignorant mind get in the way of your Brave's broadcast.

I got more news for you.....you can say this guy's not performing like he should, and that guy's performing about right, but the FACT is that they are performing the way they are...and that's what matters. (see the Dallas Cowboys of 2010) Of course, if you want to console yourself with projections, go right ahead. I'm going to go by the record......which for the Phils, is the Best in Baseball. :D

[Patton]

No one has disputed that the Phillies have a better offense than the Braves in this thread . I just disputed the notion that they're slumping. That's simply not the case (and I don't know why I even argued that point because both teams are still below average offensively). They're right about where they should be. I'd be worried about what happens to them when they really do start slumping, if I were a Phillies fan.

I don't need to "console" myself. The Braves are tied for the wildcard as of this posting and would have a chance to appear in the playoffs. It doesn't matter if they win the division or the wildcard, they'd still be in the same spot the Phillies are.

[GloryDaysRBack]

Up to this point in time, the phils have been the better team. But don't kid yourself, the braves have not been healthy at all so far this season. It's June, who is in first in June means nothing..let's see who wins the pennant.

[GloryDaysRBack]

Jason Heyward is back..batting 7th tonight..we desperately need this kid to provide some pop with his bat

[Temo]

Saying a team is lucky and supporting that statement by citing the leaders in individual stat categories is just dumb.

How about run differential?

Record in 1 run games?

Anything other than what you just did?

[CowboyDan]

Saying a team is lucky and supporting that statement by citing the leaders in individual stat categories is just dumb.

How about run differential?

Record in 1 run games?

Anything other than what you just did?

You must read backwards or something, because the stats were in response to someone saying that the Phils' position players are old and declining. Funny how those old, declining guys are leading those young underperformers from the ATL huh?

I said your team was lucky to be within 2 games of the Phils because it's true. That's based on much more than just the proof that our position players outperform your position players.

But since you asked....

Run Differential
Phils +57
Braves +38

1 Run Games
Phils 11-8
Braves 13-12

Want more?? http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/type/expanded

[DIAF]

You bring up their pitching stats when i talk about how their offense has been in a slump?

Flawless logic there..

You didn't specify offense. You just said the whole team was in a "slump". Last I checked, a whole team includes pitchers as well.

hahaha @ the phillies fans in here thinking that RBI is an awesome indicator of individual hitter's ability. They probably are still clinging on to batting averages as well.

[CowboyDan]

You didn't specify offense. You just said the whole team was in a "slump". Last I checked, a whole team includes pitchers as well.

hahaha @ the phillies fans in here thinking that RBI is an awesome indicator of individual hitter's ability. They probably are still clinging on to batting averages as well.

HaHa at the Braves fans in here who ask me to show differential and 1 run records, even though the Phillies are leading in both of those categories also. You guys have any other stats you want to compare?

[CowboyDan]

By the way, the Phils won both games of their double-header today.....the Braves are down 3 - 0 in a rain delayed game......could the Braves be 5 games back after today?? Wow.

[RoyTheHammer]

You didn't specify offense. You just said the whole team was in a "slump". Last I checked, a whole team includes pitchers as well.

hahaha @ the phillies fans in here thinking that RBI is an awesome indicator of individual hitter's ability. They probably are still clinging on to batting averages as well.

How's superstar Dan Uggla doing again? Go ahead and throw me some bogus stats that say he's actually hitting well despite what his BA and run production are.

Dope..

[Temo]

HaHa at the Braves fans in here who ask me to show differential and 1 run records, even though the Phillies are leading in both of those categories also. You guys have any other stats you want to compare?

What does the Phillies leading in both have to do with the Braves no deserving to be 2 back? Neither stat shows that they are lucky at all.

[Temo]

By the way, the Phils won both games of their double-header today.....the Braves are down 3 - 0 in a rain delayed game......could the Braves be 5 games back after today?? Wow.

'tis a long season man. Lots of good action still to be played.

Philly fans are crazy with all the crowing they do.

[RoyTheHammer]

'tis a long season man. Lots of good action still to be played.

Philly fans are crazy with all the crowing they do.

Yawn.. this entire thread is guys trying to shove sunshine up each other's rear ends about how the Braves will turn it around and are primed to take the division.

All i have to say about the Phils is that they are a better club all around, and their hitters are finally starting to get good swings on the ball and look what's happening. To those who say the offense wasn't in a huge slump pretty much across the board, you obviously have not followed the Phils or know their hitters very well.

[Temo]

Yawn.. this entire thread is guys trying to shove sunshine up each other's rear ends about how the Braves will turn it around and are primed to take the division.


Whatever man. I refuse to be down about my team in early June with a winning record, in striking distance of the division lead, and some exciting pitchers.

You can do what you want.

[RoyTheHammer]

Whatever man. I refuse to be down about my team in early June with a winning record, in striking distance of the division lead, and some exciting pitchers.

You can do what you want.

Nothing wrong with being excited in how the Braves are doing, but if some want to try and brush off how good the Phils are into convincing themselves to think the Braves will take this division.. come on now. The Phils are clearly the better team in almost every facet of the game. We'll see how things play out, but if the Phils stay relatively healthy for most of the season, i don't see how the Braves could possibly overtake them.

[Temo]

Nothing wrong with being excited in how the Braves are doing, but if some want to try and brush off how good the Phils are into convincing themselves to think the Braves will take this division.. come on now. The Phils are clearly the better team in almost every facet of the game. We'll see how things play out, but if the Phils stay relatively healthy for most of the season, i don't see how the Braves could possibly overtake them.

Which I never said. I refuted the idea that the Braves being 2 games back was "luck".

[RoyTheHammer]

Up to this point in time, the phils have been the better team. But don't kid yourself, the braves have not been healthy at all so far this season. It's June, who is in first in June means nothing..let's see who wins the pennant.

The Phils have had more than their fair share of injuries this season as well, btw. You act like they've had their entire roster to work with all season long.

[CowboyDan]

You must read backwards or something, because the stats were in response to someone saying that the Phils' position players are old and declining. Funny how those old, declining guys are leading those young underperformers from the ATL huh?

I said your team was lucky to be within 2 games of the Phils because it's true. That's based on much more than just the proof that our position players outperform your position players.

But since you asked....

Run Differential
Phils +58
Braves +34

1 Run Games
Phils 12-8
Braves 13-12

Want more?? http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/type/expanded

Corrected after last night. :p:
A 24 run advantage and a higher winning percentage in 1 run games.....the 2 stats you value the most. I'm starting to think the Braves are lucky to be 5 back.

[DIAF]

How's superstar Dan Uggla doing again? Go ahead and throw me some bogus stats that say he's actually hitting well despite what his BA and run production are.

Dope..

Is this all you have? Childish antics? Name calling? It would be nice if you would stop crapping up this BASEBALL thread with juvenile posturing.

[Temo]

Corrected after last night. :p:
A 24 run advantage and a higher winning percentage in 1 run games.....the 2 stats you value the most. I'm starting to think the Braves are lucky to be 5 back.

In terms of luck those are exactly the stats you need. Not sure how you think otherwise.

13-12 record in 1 run games is slightly unlucky. The Phillies are right on course.

The Braves expected Win-Loss with that run differential is 39-30, behind the Phillies at 41-28, which is exactly two games back.

Play again.

[CowboyDan]

In terms of luck those are exactly the stats you need. Not sure how you think otherwise.

13-12 record in 1 run games is slightly unlucky. The Phillies are right on course.

The Braves expected Win-Loss with that run differential is 39-30, behind the Phillies at 41-28, which is exactly two games back.

Play again.

Now you're trying to make my case for me.....I'm the one who said you were lucky to be 2 games back. 24 hours later, you're where you belong, 5 games back. You just keep looking at projections and what-ifs, and I'll go by real life........you're 5 games back.

[Temo]

Now you're trying to make my case for me.....I'm the one who said you were lucky to be 2 games back. 24 hours later, you're where you belong, 5 games back. You just keep looking at projections and what-ifs, and I'll go by real life........you're 5 games back.

Ok, this is officially useless.

We'll see you when we see you.

[RoyTheHammer]

Is this all you have? Childish antics? Name calling? It would be nice if you would stop crapping up this BASEBALL thread with juvenile posturing.

No, you're just a dope.. so i said as much.

You're sitting there trying to tell me that BA and run production mean nothing. Its all nonsense. Go ahead.. show me some bogus stat that explains why Danny Uggla is actually hitting well right now. I'll wait..

[DIAF]

No, you're just a dope.. so i said as much.

You're sitting there trying to tell me that BA and run production mean nothing. Its all nonsense. Go ahead.. show me some bogus stat that explains why Danny Uggla is actually hitting well right now. I'll wait..

RBI != run production

hahaha, i told you the philly fans are clinging to RBI and batting average. I guess advanced stats are too difficult to grasp. (see, i can be condescending too)

RBI means you just get a hit when someone ahead of you happened to get on. Whoopdee doo. Getting on base and going further when you get on base are far more important to run production.

[RoyTheHammer]

RBI != run production

hahaha, i told you the philly fans are clinging to RBI and batting average. I guess advanced stats are too difficult to grasp. (see, i can be condescending too)

RBI means you just get a hit when someone ahead of you happened to get on. Whoopdee doo. Getting on base and going further when you get on base are far more important to run production.

Tell me what's more important than hitting consistently and producing runs? There's a reason they are the stats that if you put up good numbers, you get paid, make all star teams, etc..

All your superior attitude and whining about "advanced stats" does is show me how foolish you are. Keep worrying about those, and the rest of us who know baseball will keep realising that the guys who drive in the most runs are the most valuable, because nothing is more important on offense than run production.


And again.. how's Uggla doing?

[DIAF]

Tell me what's more important than hitting consistently and producing runs?


Getting on base and getting into scoring position. That's what is important in producing runs. You don't even need to get a HIT to drive in a run.


There's a reason they are the stats that if you put up good numbers, you get paid, make all star teams, etc..


LOL the all-star game, they let fans vote for the all-star game! Freakin' OMAR INFANTE made the all-star team. Every team has to have a representative.


All your superior attitude and whining about "advanced stats" does is show me how foolish you are.

Apparently you don't read your own posts.


Keep worrying about those, and the rest of us who know baseball will keep realising that the guys who drive in the most runs are the most valuable, because nothing is more important on offense than run production.


Even a .250 hitter with no power that never walks can drive in tons of runs if the guys in front of him get on and get over. Does he get credit for that? Of course he shouldn't. Getting on base and getting over is THE most important factor in run production. Not the guy who happens to reap the benefit.

"Advanced stats" are not that hard to figure out. The only people that cling to things like Batting Averages are people that know baseball from the back of a baseball card or fantasy baseball players. LOL at batting average/RBI being the most important stat in baseball. You probably think WINS are the most important pitching stat, too.

[RoyTheHammer]

Getting on base and getting into scoring position. That's what is important in producing runs. You don't even need to get a HIT to drive in a run.


Really so consistently hitting to get runners on base is important? Guess that's why guys with high batting averages every year are the most coveted and valuable, along with the guys that drive in the most runs.. like i said. lol

Getting into scoring position means nothing if you don't knock them in, btw. The Phillies should know from a few years ago how useless getting runners into scoring position is. If you're trying to tell me getting guys to second base is more important than getting them home.. im going to call you a dope again and move on. So try something else.

[DIAF]

Really so consistently hitting to get runners on base is important? Guess that's why guys with high batting averages every year are the most coveted and valuable, along with the guys that drive in the most runs.. like i said. lol

Getting into scoring position means nothing if you don't knock them in, btw. The Phillies should know from a few years ago how useless getting runners into scoring position is. If you're trying to tell me getting guys to second base is more important than getting them home.. im going to call you a dope again and move on. So try something else.

It doesnt surprise me that you aren't able to grasp this simple concept, I guess.

Your argument about batting average (getting a hit) being the most important thing in "run production"....anyone can get a hit and drive in a run if there are runners on and in scoring position, heck you don't even NEED a hit to score a run...hitters can chase home a run on a fly ball sacrifice, fielders' choice, base on balls....shoot, you dont even need a hit to get on base. A BB will suffice.

RBI is a function of the on base skill of the hitters in the lineup in front of you. Its more about opportunity than skill. If you are a .250 hitter with average power but the guys in front of you do a good job of getting on base, then you are going to have a lot of opportunities to knock in runs despite your mediocre bat.

This demonstrates that OBP (and OPS) are far more important metrics than Batting Average for "run production". Or wOBA, if you prefer.

But oh, you are oh-so-old-school and math has no place in the game! It's all about getting those baseball-card stats!

[Temo]

Why even have this conversation. It's pointless.

Awesome balk-off win today. Gotta love the Mets.

[RoyTheHammer]

It doesnt surprise me that you aren't able to grasp this simple concept, I guess.

Your argument about batting average (getting a hit) being the most important thing in "run production"....anyone can get a hit and drive in a run if there are runners on and in scoring position, heck you don't even NEED a hit to score a run...hitters can chase home a run on a fly ball sacrifice, fielders' choice, base on balls....shoot, you dont even need a hit to get on base. A BB will suffice.

RBI is a function of the on base skill of the hitters in the lineup in front of you. Its more about opportunity than skill. If you are a .250 hitter with average power but the guys in front of you do a good job of getting on base, then you are going to have a lot of opportunities to knock in runs despite your mediocre bat.

This demonstrates that OBP (and OPS) are far more important metrics than Batting Average for "run production". Or wOBA, if you prefer.

But oh, you are oh-so-old-school and math has no place in the game! It's all about getting those baseball-card stats!

Its actually pretty simple, and you still won't understand it because you'll over think it some more, but as i have said from the beginning..

The players who hit consistently and therefore have high batting averages most seasons, and the players who drive home the most runs every season are the ones that are the most valuable and who command the biggest contracts. Bottom line.

Tell me about all your other stats and yada yada yada.. the guys who get on base, and the guys who knock home the runs are the most important.

Anyone can get a hit and drive in a run, yet some do consistently, and some don't.

Just like anyone can get on base, yet some do consistently, and some don't.

Your logic is like that of a 5 year old. Of course anyone can do something, but most don't.

[DIAF]

Tell me about all your other stats and yada yada yada.. the guys who get on base, and the guys who knock home the runs are the most important.

Anyone can get a hit and drive in a run, yet some do consistently, and some don't.

Just like anyone can get on base, yet some do consistently, and some don't.



This is amazing. Your argument went from "Batting average and RBI are the most important stats in baseball" to "getting on base and home runs (power/total bases) are the most important" which is essentially WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME about on base percentage/slugging...

hahaha.

but just for giggles, lets look at how important Batting Average really is in terms of knocking in runs.

12 of the top 20 RBI guys last year hit below .300, the often-cited threshold for a high batting average. Two of the top 3 guys, Arod and Jose Bautista, hit .270 or less. It's not about average; its about getting on base and hitting for power (extra bases vs. singles) that are most important.

Stats don't lie.

Temo; you are absolutely right. After this guy's last post, he's gotta be trolling. No use in arguing with a troll.

[casmith07]

The Braves won last night - it was only the 2nd time in franchise history the Mets lost a game on a Balk-Off :laugh1:

[DIAF]

The Braves won last night - it was only the 2nd time in franchise history the Mets lost a game on a Balk-Off :laugh1:

It wasn't even a questionable balk call. As soon as the ump called it, DJ Carrasco walked right off the mound with no argument. lol mets

[CowboyDan]

Who's the best player on the Atlanta Braves?

[DIAF]

Brian McCann, Tommy Hanson, Johnny Venters are the three best players so far this year on the Bravos.

[CowboyDan]

Who's the best player on the Atlanta Braves?

Who's the best player? Which 1?

[DIAF]

Not sure. Hard choice. Either Venters or Hanson I guess. Venters is having an unreal season and has been the best reliever in baseball by a longshot. Hanson is leading the league in hits-per-9, striking out over a batter per, and a whip hovering around 1.

[CowboyDan]

Not sure. Hard choice. Either Venters or Hanson I guess. Venters is having an unreal season and has been the best reliever in baseball by a longshot. Hanson is leading the league in hits-per-9, striking out over a batter per, and a whip hovering around 1.

Alrighty then, since you're tied up between those two guys, let's take a look at the other guy you mentioned....the best position player on the Braves....Brian McCann. What makes Brian McCann numero uno on the squad?

[DIAF]

He's tops on the team in on-base % and slugging. 2nd in total bases and plays the most demanding position on the field. Leads the squad in homers. Doesn't strike out excessively. Prado is probably a close 2nd in terms of most valuable position player. Heyward is obviously the most talented, but he's been hurt for over a month.

[CowboyDan]

He's tops on the team in on-base % and slugging. 2nd in total bases and plays the most demanding position on the field. Leads the squad in homers. Doesn't strike out excessively. Prado is probably a close 2nd in terms of most valuable position player. Heyward is obviously the most talented, but he's been hurt for over a month.

Do you think it's mere coincidence that he's leading the team in batting average among everyday players and 2nd in rbi's, too?

Say what you will about averages and rbi's, but they are legit stats that give you an indication of a players production. I'm not knocking advanced stats, as I see their relevance, but I do not discount the picture presented by averages and rbi's, like you do.

[DIAF]

Do you think it's mere coincidence that he's leading the team in batting average among everyday players and 2nd in rbi's, too?

Say what you will about averages and rbi's, but they are legit stats that give you an indication of a players production. I'm not knocking advanced stats, as I see their relevance, but I do not discount the picture presented by averages and rbi's, like you do.

If the guys in front of you get on, and you get hits or advance the runners otherwise, you are going to get RBIs. Brian McCann has been hitting behind jordan schaefer, chipper jones, Jason Heyward, and Martin Prado most of the year, and they've all done a good job of getting on base this year when they've been healthy. 23 extra-base hits also helps when those are the guys hitting in front of you. 15 of his RBIs have come on his 9 home runs. Batting average is a component of OBP, which also takes into account walks. Therefore its a much better stat to use when judging a players' worth, and makes BA largely irrelevant by itself. I'd rather have a guy that hit .270 with an OBP of .350 than I would a .300 hitter with an OBP of .325.

A .260 hitter is a .260 hitter. The difference between him driving in 50 runs and 100 runs depends largely on how good the hitters in front of him are. You cant drive in guys that aren't on base.

[CowboyDan]

If the guys in front of you get on, and you get hits or advance the runners otherwise, you are going to get RBIs. Brian McCann has been hitting behind jordan schaefer, chipper jones, Jason Heyward, and Martin Prado most of the year, and they've all done a good job of getting on base this year when they've been healthy. 23 extra-base hits also helps when those are the guys hitting in front of you. 15 of his RBIs have come on his 9 home runs.

Who's arguing this? Obviously you don't get rbi's if you don't have runners on base or if you don't hit homeruns. But that's the thing.....you have to hit the ball and drive the runners in. You act like it's so easy a caveman could do it.

[DIAF]

Who's arguing this? Obviously you don't get rbi's if you don't have runners on base or if you don't hit homeruns. But that's the thing.....you have to hit the ball and drive the runners in. You act like it's so easy a caveman could do it.

Your pal Roy, for one. He's arguing that having a high average is the most important factor in run production, whereas I am arguing that the most important factor in run production is getting guys on base and into scoring position, and then doing "more" with your hits (slugging) as opposed to just getting more hits (batting average).

Although judging from his last post, his argument has sneakily morphed into one of power and on-base %...which is the same argument he kept telling me that I knew nothing about baseball for clinging to.

Like I said before, a .260 hitter that drives in runs and a .260 hitter that doesn't (assuming everything else is equal) drive in runs are separated by one thing: opportunity. RBI is largely a statistic of opportunity, dependent on far more than just the individual at the plate's ability to get a hit.

[CowboyDan]

Your pal Roy, for one. He's arguing that having a high average is the most important factor in run production, whereas I am arguing that the most important factor in run production is getting guys on base and into scoring position, and then doing "more" with your hits (slugging) as opposed to just getting more hits (batting average).

Although judging from his last post, his argument has sneakily morphed into one of power and on-base %...which is the same argument he kept telling me that I knew nothing about baseball for clinging to.

Like I said before, a .260 hitter that drives in runs and a .260 hitter that doesn't (assuming everything else is equal) drive in runs are separated by one thing: opportunity. RBI is largely a statistic of opportunity, dependent on far more than just the individual at the plate's ability to get a hit.

I have no problem with OBP. I have no problem with just using batting averages either, obviously.

As for your statement on RBI's being largely based on opportunity, I suggest that you have to show something in your ability to be placed in the lineup directly behind the tablesetters. In other words, you earn your opportunities.

[DIAF]

I have no problem with OBP. I have no problem with just using batting averages either, obviously.

As for your statement on RBI's being largely based on opportunity, I suggest that you have to show something in your ability to be placed in the lineup directly behind the tablesetters. In other words, you earn your opportunities.

That's why they place power guys behind tablesetters, dudes more likely to go for extra bases. You don't need to bat .300 or more to hit in the heart of the order, but you do need to have some kick in that bat.

[Temo]

Really excited to see Randal Delgado's debut today.

[RoyTheHammer]

This is amazing. Your argument went from "Batting average and RBI are the most important stats in baseball" to "getting on base and home runs (power/total bases) are the most important" which is essentially WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME about on base percentage/slugging...

hahaha.

but just for giggles, lets look at how important Batting Average really is in terms of knocking in runs.

12 of the top 20 RBI guys last year hit below .300, the often-cited threshold for a high batting average. Two of the top 3 guys, Arod and Jose Bautista, hit .270 or less. It's not about average; its about getting on base and hitting for power (extra bases vs. singles) that are most important.

Stats don't lie.

Temo; you are absolutely right. After this guy's last post, he's gotta be trolling. No use in arguing with a troll.

Where do you see me say HR's are the most important? Honestly its like talking to an infant.

Its not that hard to understand.. the guys who get the most hits consistently year in and year out (BA), and the guys who drive home the most runs year in and year out (RBI) are the ones most valuable in the MLB. This is proven by the fact that they command the biggest salaries and most attention on the FA market.

It only stands to reason that the guys with the highest batting averages are going to be guys with higher OBP's as well.

Get it yet?

:bang2:

[DIAF]

Where do you see me say HR's are the most important? Honestly its like talking to an infant.

Its not that hard to understand.. the guys who get the most hits consistently year in and year out (BA), and the guys who drive home the most runs year in and year out (RBI) are the ones most valuable in the MLB. This is proven by the fact that they command the biggest salaries and most attention on the FA market.

It only stands to reason that the guys with the highest batting averages are going to be guys with higher OBP's as well.

Get it yet?

:bang2:


I keep posting stats, and you keep saying "these guys are the most valuable" without any sort of data to quantify your assertion.

This argument is now over, seeing as how I am the only one that seems interested in participating in it.

Really excited to see Randal Delgado's debut today.

Heh, the only team I like more than the Braves are my hometown Rangers. Poor Randall Delgado, he's not ready and his first start is against the Rangers. Dude is gonna get shelled if the game doesnt get rained out tonight.

[Muhast]

Not sure. Hard choice. Either Venters or Hanson I guess. Venters is having an unreal season and has been the best reliever in baseball by a longshot. Hanson is leading the league in hits-per-9, striking out over a batter per, and a whip hovering around 1.

What about my boy Jair Jurrgens?

[DIAF]

What about my boy Jair Jurrgens?

Close, but overall I think Tommy's been more impressive.

[Muhast]

Close, but overall I think Tommy's been more impressive.


Jurrgens 8-3 2.13 ERA 49 k's 16 walks

Hanson 8-4 2.48 ERA 89 K's 30 walks

I think it's pretty close. A 2.13 ERA after 12 starts is pretty impressive. In May he went 6-1 with a 1.7 ERA.

Hanson is fanning more batters but Jair isn't giving up anything.

Pretty nice issue to have, trying to figure out which pitcher is better :)

[RoyTheHammer]

I keep posting stats, and you keep saying "these guys are the most valuable" without any sort of data to quantify your assertion.
.

Just because you choose to ignore information, does not mean it isn't there.

[DIAF]

Delgado did better than expected.

[RoyTheHammer]

Delgado did better than expected.

Nice to set those dirt low expectations.. you won't ever be disappointed.

4 innings, 7 hits, 4 runs allowed, 3 earned.. nice line.

How's Uggla doing?

[cowboyeric8]

Go Rangers! :D

Should be a good series.

[DIAF]

Nice to set those dirt low expectations.. you won't ever be disappointed.



Considering that he's 21, was in AA, and is NOT READY for the major leagues yet and being forced into a spot start? I was expecting him to get absolutely bombed.

You suck as a troll. Maybe you should take classes.

You got a problem with me? PM me, or better yet, take it up with the mods. Stop ruining this thread for the other posters.

[RoyTheHammer]

Considering that he's 21, was in AA, and is NOT READY for the major leagues yet and being forced into a spot start? I was expecting him to get absolutely bombed.

You suck as a troll. Maybe you should take classes.

You got a problem with me? PM me, or better yet, take it up with the mods. Stop ruining this thread for the other posters.

Im talking baseball.. you think im trolling because i don't like the Braves? This isn't a Braves board, Mr. "can't wait for Romo to leave".

Get over yourself.

They wouldn't have brought him up if they didn't think he could help the team in a spot start. I'm sure they have other options they could have gone to. He pitched a bad game.

[DIAF]

They wouldn't have brought him up if they didn't think he could help the team in a spot start. I'm sure they have other options they could have gone to.

The reason Delgado was chosen was simply because it was his turn to pitch. Erik Cordier had just thrown a lot of pitches at AAA and Teheren, Vizcaino were the other options and they had just pitched 2 days prior.

[RoyTheHammer]

The reason Delgado was chosen was simply because it was his turn to pitch. Erik Cordier had just thrown a lot of pitches at AAA and Teheren, Vizcaino were the other options and they had just pitched 2 days prior.

Not saying that isn't true, but im sure it wasn't that simple. Im sure they considered a few different options and decided he was their best chance to help the team in a spot start or two.

[Temo]

Delgado's changeup is crazy, I really like it. 94 MPH fast ball, 81-83 MPH change-up with good movement. He just needs a quality third pitch (keep working on that curve!) and I think he's going to be a good big league pitcher.

Definitely a live arm though.

[DIAF]

hahaha Hudson pitching a 1-hit shutout and hit a 2-run homer.

[Temo]

hahaha Hudson pitching a 1-hit shutout and hit a 2-run homer.

Awesome win tonight. Kimbrel in the 9th was just pure filth.

[Temo]

And now Minor has a great start. Jose Bautista had his 20+ game on-base streak snapped yesterday and then was kept off base again today.

Maybe we'll be able to get on another win streak here.

[GloryDaysRBack]

This team is starting to get healthy..and it could get scary...once Prado gets back, there should be enough bats for this team to turn it around offensively..I absolutely love having both Shaffer and Mclouth in the lineup because it's an infusion of speed..something this team lacks big time. I guess once Prado returns that will be the end of Mclouth in left.

[Temo]

McLouth looks pretty good defensively in LF. It's nice having him instead of Matt Young or Joe Mather, anyway.

Also:

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/sunpar/braveschick.jpg

[RoyTheHammer]

McLouth looks pretty good defensively in LF. It's nice having him instead of Matt Young or Joe Mather, anyway.

Also:

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/sunpar/braveschick.jpg (http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc374/sunpar/braveschick.jpg)

Best post in the entire thread! haha

So when Prado gets back though, will McLouth still be starting in CF? Or is he going to the bench?

[GloryDaysRBack]

Best post in the entire thread! haha

So when Prado gets back though, will McLouth still be starting in CF? Or is he going to the bench?

That's a big decision for Freddie...I prefer Schaffer to be honest..but we will see who Freddie prefers..Schaffer has been a pleasant surprise..nothing earth shattering, I just had 0 expectations for him.

[RoyTheHammer]

That's a big decision for Freddie...I prefer Schaffer to be honest..but we will see who Freddie prefers..Schaffer has been a pleasant surprise..nothing earth shattering, I just had 0 expectations for him.

That'd be a real disappointment for McLouth.. i was actually concerned when the Braves first signed him. I thought he'd make their offense more well rounded and productive with his speed and power combo he displayed in Pittsburgh.

I will admit the Braves have had some hard luck signings recently with McLouth and Uggla. Uggla could still come around, but McLouth seems like a one year wonder at this point. Don't know if he'll ever live up to the contract they signed him to (although not sure how much they paid him).

[Temo]

I think Schafer will be the regular CF, but McLouth will get starts all over the OF subbing for guys (Heyward, Prado, Schafer, Prado again when he subs for Chipper, etc.).

I wouldn't be surprised to see McLouth get 4 starts a week as a bench player.

[casmith07]

Awesome win tonight. Kimbrel in the 9th was just pure filth.

Kimbrel and Venters are both absolutely disgusting...nothing but heat.

How about Jurrjens notching #10 last night and Uggla's 2-3 day?

[GloryDaysRBack]

With Oswalt out until august this next month is going to be crucial..we are going to need to cut/ shave off at least 3 games...I think our bats are warming up..but that opener in SD was very depressing.

[Temo]

With Oswalt out until august this next month is going to be crucial..we are going to need to cut/ shave off at least 3 games...I think our bats are warming up..but that opener in SD was very depressing.

And yesterday was the opposite. And today, so far, it's been all pitching.

[GloryDaysRBack]

Huge hit there by Schaffer..1-0 braves. Bot 8

[GloryDaysRBack]

Well that was ugly...couple of routine mistakes and that's the game

[Temo]

Yep. Oh well.

[Muhast]

Braves have won 13 of the last 15, and 9 of the last 10 games.

Freeman has homered in 4 straight games!

[Phoenix]

Ouch. As I heard one of the announcers comment, that game was turning into a videogame for the Phillies yesterday. Unreal.

[Joe Rod]

Ouch. As I heard one of the announcers comment, that game was turning into a videogame for the Phillies yesterday. Unreal.

That one stunk for sure, especially after how well they played the Phils in the two previous games.

[RoyTheHammer]

Just to update halfway through the season:

Superstar Dan Uggla:

.185 15 HR 34 RBI 84 K .257 OBP

[DIAF]

Just to update halfway through the season:

Superstar Dan Uggla:

.185 15 HR 34 RBI 84 K .257 OBP

17 games over .500. Somehow I don't think Dan Uggla cares about your weird fixation on him.

[Phoenix]

Atlanta Braves 3rd most popular MLB team (1 - NYY, 2 - BOS)

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/braves-third-in-mlb-1016919.html

[RoyTheHammer]

17 games over .500. Somehow I don't think Dan Uggla cares about your weird fixation on him.

Just reporting the facts, sir. The discussion wasn't about how good the Braves are, it was about superstar Dan Uggla simply not being that good of a hitter.

They definitely overpaid. They do however have pitching..and lots of it.

[Phoenix]

Just reporting the facts, sir. The discussion wasn't about how good the Braves are, it was about superstar Dan Uggla simply not being that good of a hitter.

They definitely overpaid. They do however have pitching..and lots of it.


Agreed, and the whole baseball world well knows what a failed signing Uggla was for the Braves. He made some recent worst FA signing team recently I remember...

[DIAF]

haha, since July 5th Uggla is #1 in the majors in OPS. It was bound to end sometime.

[tko112204]

Uggla in July:

.267/.353/.583 (For an OPS of .936)

.317 ISO and a .403 wOBA

All of that with a slightly reduced BABIP that would have his triple slash looking a little better if it matched up with his LD%.

Small sample size, sure. But encouraging for Braves fans. (Or Uggla fantasy owners, like me.)

Moral of the story, baseball is not for the quick triggered.

[casmith07]

Uggla in July:

.267/.353/.583 (For an OPS of .936)

.317 ISO and a .403 wOBA

All of that with a slightly reduced BABIP that would have his triple slash looking a little better if it matched up with his LD%.

Small sample size, sure. But encouraging for Braves fans. (Or Uggla fantasy owners, like me.)

Moral of the story, baseball is not for the quick triggered.

What do you mean? You didn't know the World Series was won in May?

[Temo]

Braves pitching has been **** since the all star break. Hopefully that turns around.

[CowboyDan]

:bang2:

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/daily-pitch/2011/07/27/a-bravesx-large.jpg

[RoyTheHammer]

haha, since July 5th Uggla is #1 in the majors in OPS. It was bound to end sometime.

Too bad the season isn't only 15 days long..

He is over the Mendoza line now though.. .205. Congrats.

[Temo]

:bang2:

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/daily-pitch/2011/07/27/a-bravesx-large.jpg

Awesome picture, shows no tag being applied. Just how I like it.

[RoyTheHammer]

Awesome picture, shows no tag being applied. Just how I like it.

I think the umpire himself as well as MLB all admitted he blew the call and the runner was out already.

How bout those Pirates though? Despite the rough break, they've been more than respectable this season. Weird to see.

[Muhast]

I think the umpire himself as well as MLB all admitted he blew the call and the runner was out already.

How bout those Pirates though? Despite the rough break, they've been more than respectable this season. Weird to see.


We have played 29 innings in two games now lol.

[Risen Star]

You got three dominant teams in both leagues. Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers. Phillies, Giants, Braves. In whatever order you want.

[RoyTheHammer]

You got three dominant teams in both leagues. Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers. Phillies, Giants, Braves. In whatever order you want.

Giants and Phillies are going to go down to the wire again this year. Great matchup with two very similar teams.

[Risen Star]

Giants and Phillies are going to go down to the wire again this year. Great matchup with two very similar teams.

It looks like the Phillies just answered the Beltran trade by acquiring Hunter Pence. He's been scratched from tonight's game and is reportedly "getting hugs in the dugout".

The deal is supposed to be Pence for Cosart, Singleton and two players to be named later. And those two players aren't supposed to be top prospects.

[RoyTheHammer]

It looks like the Phillies just answered the Beltran trade by acquiring Hunter Pence. He's been scratched from tonight's game and is reportedly "getting hugs in the dugout".

The deal is supposed to be Pence for Cosart, Singleton and two players to be named later. And those two players aren't supposed to be top prospects.

Im interested to see who the last two are. Better not be any of the other "Baby Aces".

it won't be Dom Brown or Vance Worley though. That's the good news.

[Risen Star]

Im interested to see who the last two are. Better not be any of the other "Baby Aces".

it won't be Dom Brown or Vance Worley though. That's the good news.

Well they are supposed to be lower rated prospects. So no baby aces.

I know Cosart is really highly regarded and Singleton's got big bat potential but at least they kept Brown and now have their 2012 outfield set.

Now I'm waiting to see the Braves' response. Maybe Carlos Quentin. They have a loaded farm system rich with pitching. They have to do something.

[Risen Star]

One of those players is pitcher Josh Zeid (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=zeid--001jos).

I have no idea who that is.

[RoyTheHammer]

Well they are supposed to be lower rated prospects. So no baby aces.

I know Cosart is really highly regarded and Singleton's got big bat potential but at least they kept Brown and now have their 2012 outfield set.

Now I'm waiting to see the Braves' response. Maybe Carlos Quentin. They have a loaded farm system rich with pitching. They have to do something.

I'd pass on Quentin. He'd be like Uggla version 2.0. Right handed bat with decent power but doesn't hit for average.

[Muhast]

I'd pass on Quentin. He'd be like Uggla version 2.0. Right handed bat with decent power but doesn't hit for average.


I'd offer Minor and another prospect to LA for Kemp. He is due to be a FA, they can't afford him and Ethier most likely sense their in a financial mess.

Maybe wishful thinking.

[RoyTheHammer]

I'd offer Minor and another prospect to LA for Kemp. He is due to be a FA, they can't afford him and Ethier most likely sense their in a financial mess.

Maybe wishful thinking.

Im wondering if Kemp and/or Ethier are even available. Haven't heard much other than some minor speculation about those two. Seems like they weren't even there to be had. That could change quickly though.. who knows.

[Risen Star]

It'd take a heck of a lot more than that to snag Kemp.

[DIAF]

Kemp isn't going anywhere. Even with the Dodgers recent $$ troubles, it would take 3 of Atlanta's top pitching prospects. Not going to happen.

[CowboyDan]

Awesome picture, shows no tag being applied. Just how I like it.

I'm so surprised by your blatant ignoring of what is obvious to the rest of the world. :rolleyes:

[RoyTheHammer]

Braves picked up Michael Bourn for Jordan Schafer and 3 minor league toss ins today. How do ya'll feel about this move?

[Muhast]

Braves picked up Michael Bourn for Jordan Schafer and 3 minor league toss ins today. How do ya'll feel about this move?


Happy about it. Schafer is very good defensively and fast. But can't hit at all.

Bourn can steal a lot of bases.


(BTW even you have to admit Uggla is MUCH better lately. He has a 21 game hitting streak ( by far the longest of his career)

[RoyTheHammer]

Happy about it. Schafer is very good defensively and fast. But can't hit at all.

Bourn can steal a lot of bases.


(BTW even you have to admit Uggla is MUCH better lately. He has a 21 game hitting streak ( by far the longest of his career)

He's been doing better lately, sure. No question. However, for that monster contract that he signed, he better keep doing this well for the rest of the entire season if he wants to bring his numbers back up to respectability.

[casmith07]

Happy about it. Schafer is very good defensively and fast. But can't hit at all.

Bourn can steal a lot of bases.


(BTW even you have to admit Uggla is MUCH better lately. He has a 21 game hitting streak ( by far the longest of his career)

22 games now. Watching the game right now.

[Risen Star]

The big three all load up before the deadline. Should make for a heck of an NL playoff.

[DIAF]

The Phillies messed up, though. They should have sat Ibanez's worthless can on the bench instead of sending down Domonic Brown. Brown has just as many walks as Ibanez in under half of the ABs, much higher OBP and plays better in the field.

[Stautner]

The Phillies messed up, though. They should have sat Ibanez's worthless can on the bench instead of sending down Domonic Brown. Brown has just as many walks as Ibanez in under half of the ABs, much higher OBP and plays better in the field.

Sitting Ibanez on the bench and keeping Brown doesn't open a roster spot.

[DIAF]

Sitting Ibanez on the bench and keeping Brown doesn't open a roster spot.

No, but im sure there's someone else they could have claimed that spot from. At this point, Brown is the superior bat. But whatever. Send Brown down and keep playing Suckbanez in the OF, make it that much easier for the Braves to catch them!

[RoyTheHammer]

No, but im sure there's someone else they could have claimed that spot from. At this point, Brown is the superior bat. But whatever. Send Brown down and keep playing Suckbanez in the OF, make it that much easier for the Braves to catch them!

Actually, if you knew anything about the Phillies, you'd know why that isn't true.

Brown is struggling against major league pitching so far. His swing seems too long to be as effective as he usually is.

Meanwhile, there arn't many hitters hotter than Raul right now. Over the past two or three weeks no one in the majors has more RBI's than him. Just had another 2 HR's, 4 RBI, and game winning hit tonight too. It would have been stupid to bench him right now.

EDIT: He's hitting .310 with 4 HR's and 16 RBI over the last 14 games.

[RoyTheHammer]

BTW..

Congrats on your 10,000th loss. To the lowly Marlins, no less.

6 games back and counting.. :p:

[DIAF]

EDIT: He's hitting .310 with 4 HR's and 16 RBI over the last 14 games.

That argument doesn't fly with you and Dan Uggla, and you expect me to accept it with Ibanez? lol.

Fact: Domonic Brown is a better fielder than Ibanez (Ibanez ranks dead-last amongst all LFers in UZR because he can't get to balls in play)
Fact: Domonic Brown's On-Base Percentage is far higher than Ibanez. (.290 OBP for Ibanez - makes more outs at the plate)
Fact: Domonic Brown has just as many walks as Ibanez in less than 200 at-bats.
Fact: Domonic Brown has the exact same OPS as Ibanez

If you want to use batting average (an out-dated stat, lol at anyone still using BA as a value of a players' worth), Domonic Brown actually has a HIGHER average (.246 vs .243 for Ibanez).

If you want to use recent production as a comparison, in the month of July Brown has hit .296 (21-for-71) with a .398 on-base percentage.

Conclusion - Domonic Brown is a better player RIGHT NOW than Ibanez is. The only category where Ibanez seemingly has an edge is in power. Brown is the superior player everywhere else, and the Phillies made a mistake in exiling him to the minors until September.

[RoyTheHammer]

That argument doesn't fly with you and Dan Uggla, and you expect me to accept it with Ibanez? lol.

Fact: Domonic Brown is a better fielder than Ibanez (Ibanez ranks dead-last amongst all LFers in UZR because he can't get to balls in play)
Fact: Domonic Brown's On-Base Percentage is far higher than Ibanez. (.290 OBP for Ibanez - makes more outs at the plate)
Fact: Domonic Brown has just as many walks as Ibanez in less than 200 at-bats.
Fact: Domonic Brown has the exact same OPS as Ibanez

If you want to use batting average (an out-dated stat, lol at anyone still using BA as a value of a players' worth), Domonic Brown actually has a HIGHER average (.246 vs .243 for Ibanez).

If you want to use recent production as a comparison, in the month of July Brown has hit .296 (21-for-71) with a .398 on-base percentage.

Conclusion - Domonic Brown is a better player RIGHT NOW than Ibanez is. The only category where Ibanez seemingly has an edge is in power. Brown is the superior player everywhere else, and the Phillies made a mistake in exiling him to the minors until September.


Brown is a terrible fielder right now, and he blew a couple routine plays recently that cost us the game.

Brown also isn't hitting anywhere near the level he should be. Ibanez on the other hand has shown a big rise in production recently and is responsible for single handedly winning us a couple games with his bat recently too. You don't bench someone who's on a tear for a guy who can't field routine balls and looks out of sync at the plate.

Brown will be up here next year, and he'll be the starting left fielder. No one's worried about him at all. Just needs to work on his fielding a little more and possibly shorten up his swing a little as well.

[tko112204]

His name...

Is Dan Uggla.




Funny, it always was. And still is.

[DIAF]

He's tearing the cover off of the ball right now.

[casmith07]

Just got back from the game. Both home runs were absolute blasts. Sounded like someone opened fire in the stadium.

David Ross hit one on the screws too...too bad Jurrjens gave up some easy ones to Ankiel (of all people).

I'll be there again tomorrow...anyone else going to be at Nationals Park?

[Muhast]

Just got back from the game. Both home runs were absolute blasts. Sounded like someone opened fire in the stadium.

David Ross hit one on the screws too...too bad Jurrjens gave up some easy ones to Ankiel (of all people).

I'll be there again tomorrow...anyone else going to be at Nationals Park?


Uggla with 2 more hrs!

No, but if you ever come to Atlanta let me know!

[RoyTheHammer]

His name...

Is Dan Uggla.




Funny, it always was. And still is.

Huh? lol

[RoyTheHammer]

No, but im sure there's someone else they could have claimed that spot from. At this point, Brown is the superior bat. But whatever. Send Brown down and keep playing Suckbanez in the OF, make it that much easier for the Braves to catch them!

Suckbanez goes 1 for 3 with another double and another RBI tonight.

Phils win another.

Braves lose again.

7 games back and counting.. glad Ibanez is here to make it that much easier for you guys to catch us though.

;)

[DIAF]

Suckbanez goes 1 for 3 with another double and another RBI tonight.

Phils win another.

Braves lose again.

7 games back and counting.. glad Ibanez is here to make it that much easier for you guys to catch us though.

;)

Think about that next time you see a double bounding into left field and you are left wondering why he couldn't get to it.

Philly fan and a Cowboys fan. Hah.

I'll bet you are a Lakers fan, too.

[RoyTheHammer]

Think about that next time you see a double bounding into left field and you are left wondering why he couldn't get to it.

I won't have to see him drop a routine fly ball or let a ground ball go under his glove like Dom Brown..

Philly fan and a Cowboys fan. Hah.

I'll bet you are a Lakers fan, too.


Aww.. someone's not happy. :laugh2:

[DIAF]

I won't have to see him drop a routine fly ball or let a ground ball go under his glove like Dom Brown..



You can't drop what you can't get to!

[RoyTheHammer]

You can't drop what you can't get to!

I haven't noticed balls hit to left field costing us many runs this year.. so im pretty ok with it. Fired up this morning, huh? lol

[casmith07]

Uggla with 2 more hrs!

No, but if you ever come to Atlanta let me know!

I might be down there next week. My grandma lives in Columbus and I was thinking about driving down and seeing a series if they're at home next week and seeing my grandmother one night. I'll let you know.

[RoyTheHammer]

Send Brown down and keep playing Suckbanez in the OF, make it that much easier for the Braves to catch them!


8 games back and counting.. :)

[DIAF]

I haven't noticed balls hit to left field costing us many runs this year.. so im pretty ok with it. Fired up this morning, huh? lol

You should check out some defensive statistics other than putouts and errors.

[RoyTheHammer]

You should check out some defensive statistics other than putouts and errors.

Nah.. im good bud. I watch the games. I see how Ibanez plays out there, and no one in Philly is complaining.

[DIAF]

Nah.. im good bud. I watch the games. I see how Ibanez plays out there, and no one in Philly is complaining.

^ And this is why Derek Jeter keeps winning Gold Gloves, folks. Unknowledgeable fan base that can't see past batting average, home runs, rbis, and errors.

[CowboyDan]

^ And this is why Derek Jeter keeps winning Gold Gloves, folks. Unknowledgeable fan base that can't see past batting average, home runs, rbis, and errors.

And Championships :rolleyes:

[RoyTheHammer]

^ And this is why Derek Jeter keeps winning Gold Gloves, folks. Unknowledgeable fan base that can't see past batting average, home runs, rbis, and errors.


As i said, 8 games back and counting.. Ibanez is really costing us, huh?

What with his consistently driving in runs and getting clutch hits.. who wants that?

:laugh2:



Unknowledgable fan base indeed.. some silly Atlanta fan thinking he knows more about the Phillies than their own personel group. I think you should be worried a little more about your own team first and why they keep losing to teams under .500 recently. Pull out your little stat book and figure it out for them.. dope. lol

[CowboyDan]

As i said, 8 games back and counting.. Ibanez is really costing us, huh?

What with his consistently driving in runs and getting clutch hits.. who wants that?

:laugh2:



Unknowledgable fan base indeed.. some silly Atlanta fan thinking he knows more about the Phillies than their own personel group. I think you should be worried a little more about your own team first and why they keep losing to teams under .500 recently. Pull out your little stat book and figure it out for them.. dope. lol

At least Uggla has a 24 game hitting streak going.............:lmao:

[RoyTheHammer]

At least Uggla has a 24 game hitting streak going.............:lmao:


Yea, right as the rest of the team is breaking down, he finally decides to hit a little bit lol.

[tko112204]

DIAF is getting killed in this thread for something that a lot of people outside of Phillies fans would agree with.

Brown vs. Ibanez on defense is really a "pick your poison" sort of thing.

Brown's UZR/150 in 2011: -22.0 (That's pretty horrible.)

Ibanez' UZR/150 in 2011: -28.2 (That's even horribler.)

Ibanez catches the balls hit at him, Brown gets to balls that Ibanez needs a Ferrari to run down. Brown takes away more XBH, Ibanez makes all the "sure" outs his pitchers expect.

Again, pick your poison. Neither of them are good defenders.

The difference is, Ibanez has an OBP under .300

Ibanez OBP in 2011: .295

Brown's OBP in 2011: .335

The number one goal in baseball is to not make an out, and Brown makes a lot less outs than Ibanez does.

You can talk about "clutch hits" and "driving in runs" as skills, but they really aren't. Not getting out is a skill. And Brown is better at that than Ibanez. Right now.

[tko112204]

I don't mean to say OBP is the be all end all in baseball.

There are other reasons to play Brown over Ibanez too. They refused to trade Brown at the deadline, so they obviously view him as part of the future. He doesn't need to learn how to hit AAA pitching. He's done that already. He has major league adjustments to make, and can't make them at AAA or playing twice a week in September.

Also, the only real advantage Ibanez has over Brown at this point is his SLG and that is slightly elevated by his high HR/FB rate. Brown also SLG'd much higher in the minors than he is right now. Again, he has major league adjustments to make.

The Phillies aren't that athletic as a team either, and Ibanez makes them worse on the basepaths too.

Not sure what they see in Ibanez anymore, outside of his current hot streak and his oversized contract.

[DIAF]

Unknowledgable fan base indeed.. some silly Atlanta fan thinking he knows more about the Phillies than their own personel group.




That's funny, because you've done nothing but do this exact same thing all thread long.


I think you should be worried a little more about your own team first and why they keep losing to teams under .500 recently.


Maybe you should take your own advice to heart and stop crapping up this thread with your juvenile playground taunting.



dope. lol

Mature.

[RoyTheHammer]

That's funny, because you've done nothing but do this exact same thing all thread long..

By saying Uggla isn't a great hitter and not worth the huge contract? No, im pretty sure that's a given.

[Risen Star]

To me, Brown isn't ready yet. Ibanez is the guy I'd trust down the stretch and into the postseason. He's a tremendously streaky hitter, but when he's on he's really good. Better than Brown has shown in the brief time he's been in the big leagues.

I think going back to Lehigh Valley should be good for him.

Tough to criticize anything the Phillies do these days. They got the perfect player for them at the deadline. Like they seem to do every year.

In case you didn't notice, Ryan Howard seems to be thriving with Pence protecting him.

I thought Bourn was also a really good move. Fits what the Braves needed.

These two teams are headed for a 7 game showdown for the right to play in the world series. If the Giants don't pull another miracle run.

[RoyTheHammer]

I don't mean to say OBP is the be all end all in baseball.

There are other reasons to play Brown over Ibanez too. They refused to trade Brown at the deadline, so they obviously view him as part of the future. He doesn't need to learn how to hit AAA pitching. He's done that already. He has major league adjustments to make, and can't make them at AAA or playing twice a week in September.

Also, the only real advantage Ibanez has over Brown at this point is his SLG and that is slightly elevated by his high HR/FB rate. Brown also SLG'd much higher in the minors than he is right now. Again, he has major league adjustments to make.

The Phillies aren't that athletic as a team either, and Ibanez makes them worse on the basepaths too.

Not sure what they see in Ibanez anymore, outside of his current hot streak and his oversized contract.

He gives them a professional at bats, gets clutch hits, is on a tear recently, and makes the sure outs.. which again, is more than Brown can do. If you can't make the routine plays, you arn't going to play. That was Charlie's biggest problem with Dom.

He's basically going down for a month, to learn how to play leftfield. You can't play in the majors if you can't make the routine plays, and that's the main reason he's down. Their lineup is as good as any in baseball and they arn't having any problems scoring runs or winning games lately.

If you want to know what they see in Ibanez.. look no further than Dan Uggla. They see power in the middle of the lineup and a guy who can drive in runs. You can say driving in runs isn't a skill, but i'll take the guy who's hitting 100 points higher with runners in scoring position, and the guy who can make the routine plays.

I don't know that we've lost a game since Dom went down either, so clearly its not a big concern. He'll learn to play leftfield, come up in September, and be the starting LF next year.

[RoyTheHammer]

To me, Brown isn't ready yet. Ibanez is the guy I'd trust down the stretch and into the postseason. He's a tremendously streaky hitter, but when he's on he's really good. Better than Brown has shown in the brief time he's been in the big leagues.

I think going back to Lehigh Valley should be good for him.

Tough to criticize anything the Phillies do these days. They got the perfect player for them at the deadline. Like they seem to do every year.

In case you didn't notice, Ryan Howard seems to be thriving with Pence protecting him.

I thought Bourn was also a really good move. Fits what the Braves needed.

These two teams are headed for a 7 game showdown for the right to play in the world series. If the Giants don't pull another miracle run.

Braves need to step it up if they want to even make the playoffs. Arizona is coming on strong lately, only 2.5 games back in the WC race.

[casmith07]

Braves need to step it up if they want to even make the playoffs. Arizona is coming on strong lately, only 2.5 games back in the WC race.

It'll be a different story when McCann and Chipper are back in the lineup with Bourn on the roster now.

We need to dump Derek Lowe and dump him fast, though. He's going to cost us the playoffs.

[RoyTheHammer]

It'll be a different story when McCann and Chipper are back in the lineup with Bourn on the roster now.

We need to dump Derek Lowe and dump him fast, though. He's going to cost us the playoffs.

Yea, what's he lost like 3 or 4 starts in a row now?

His ERA is approaching 5 too i believe. Don't know what's going on with him.

[SA_Gunslinger]

It must really suck to be over 60 wins and still be 8 games back in the division.

:laugh2:

This is continued payback for the 90's and I am enjoying every minute of it.

[tko112204]

He gives them a professional at bats, gets clutch hits, is on a tear recently, and makes the sure outs.. which again, is more than Brown can do. If you can't make the routine plays, you arn't going to play. That was Charlie's biggest problem with Dom.

He's basically going down for a month, to learn how to play leftfield. You can't play in the majors if you can't make the routine plays, and that's the main reason he's down. Their lineup is as good as any in baseball and they arn't having any problems scoring runs or winning games lately.

If you want to know what they see in Ibanez.. look no further than Dan Uggla. They see power in the middle of the lineup and a guy who can drive in runs. You can say driving in runs isn't a skill, but i'll take the guy who's hitting 100 points higher with runners in scoring position, and the guy who can make the routine plays.

I don't know that we've lost a game since Dom went down either, so clearly its not a big concern. He'll learn to play leftfield, come up in September, and be the starting LF next year.

1. Yet still makes more outs.
2. How clutch would his hits be if no one was on base? One hit isn't better than another. Stop using RBIs. You can't "hit better" with RISP or else you would hit that way all the time.
3. Yet costs his team more outs.

Yay.

[casmith07]

Yea, what's he lost like 3 or 4 starts in a row now?

His ERA is approaching 5 too i believe. Don't know what's going on with him.

Control issues. He's laying EVERYTHING right over the middle of the plate.