Why Smith over Constanzo?

[gimmesix]

Just bought three draft guides today and two of them rate Anthony Constanzo as the top offensive tackle available in the draft.

However, in discussions I've seen here, it appears the Tyron Smith is preferred over Constanzo (possibly even by the Cowboys). Why is that?

Now, I've read about Smith's tremendous upside (if that's the reason), but it seems to me (based on what I've read) that Constanzo is more of a sure bet and a better possibility to step in immediately as a starter.

[burmafrd]

Castanzo has less overall potential. Simple as that. Smith is almost a freakish athlete. Super long arms and still did 31 reps. quick and fast; put on weight quickly and still looked ripped. That is why he is rated so high.

[Hostile]

Smith is stronger and faster and only 20. He has a very real chance to be a special player for a long time. That said, I like Castonzo just fine. Carimi too.

We can improve RT with any of these guys.

[Chocolate Lab]

My question is what is so great about Castonzo. I freely admit I've never watched him play one snap, but he seems very generic and I wonder if he isn't getting overrated just because of the school he went to (which is totally meaningless).

[arglebargle]

Are those published, pen and ink draft guides? If so, they may be months behind. A number of the magazines are pushed out even before the combine results are in, and don't reflect up to date opinions.

[realtick]

Are those published, pen and ink draft guides? If so, they may be months behind. A number of the magazines are pushed out even before the combine results are in, and don't reflect up to date opinions.

Exactly.

Further, what a draft guide says doesn't mean much.

[Vertigo_17]

I personally like Carimi later in the round. I think he'll be a fine pick

[gimmesix]

Castanzo has less overall potential. Simple as that. Smith is almost a freakish athlete. Super long arms and still did 31 reps. quick and fast; put on weight quickly and still looked ripped. That is why he is rated so high.

I see that, but the potential factor is one that always concerns me because it leads to picking busts like Alex Barron.

It seems to me that Smith has only risen because he is a "freakish athlete," not because he has shown a great acumen for playing tackle.

Constanzo was a standout at the Senior Bowl and seems to have the one thing Smith lacks, a great understanding of how to play the position.

[gimmesix]

My question is what is so great about Castonzo. I freely admit I've never watched him play one snap, but he seems very generic and I wonder if he isn't getting overrated just because of the school he went to (which is totally meaningless).

From what I understand, Constanzo is another in a line of players who will get the job done and be solid in doing it, but isn't going to impress people who are looking for great athleticism and the like.

I don't think there's anything "great" about him, but it appears to me that he is less likely to fail than Smith.

[realtick]

My question is what is so great about Castonzo. I freely admit I've never watched him play one snap, but he seems very generic and I wonder if he isn't getting overrated just because of the school he went to (which is totally meaningless).

I've watched him and I'm not impressed with him either. I'm really hoping he doesn't end up in Dallas. Of the consensus Top 5 OT this year, I like Smith, Carimi and Sherrod.

Although an effort guy, I think he's pretty sloppy technique wise, has bad feet and struggles overextending and reaching.

The UNC game in '09 against Robert Quinn is a good example of this.

kqJrjwjf55c

[PullMyFinger]

I see that, but the potential factor is one that always concerns me because it leads to picking busts like Alex Barron.

It seems to me that Smith has only risen because he is a "freakish athlete," not because he has shown a great acumen for playing tackle.

Constanzo was a standout at the Senior Bowl and seems to have the one thing Smith lacks, a great understanding of how to play the position.

He was a four year starter too

[gimmesix]

Are those published, pen and ink draft guides? If so, they may be months behind. A number of the magazines are pushed out even before the combine results are in, and don't reflect up to date opinions.

Yes, but both are after the combine results. However, I wouldn't devalue their opinions if they didn't include the combine because I think the combine numbers sometimes sway opinions away from production on the field.

It appears to me in that area that Constanzo is more stable than Smith.

(I guess I'm looking for someone who has seen both play, or at least Smith play, who can tell me why Smith is the better pick ... other than measurables.)

[gimmesix]

I've watched him and I'm not impressed with him either. I'm really hoping he doesn't end up in Dallas. Of the consensus Top 5 OT this year, I like Smith, Carimi and Sherrod.

Although an effort guy, I think he's pretty sloppy technique wise, has bad feet and struggles overextending and reaching.

The UNC game in '09 against Robert Quinn is a good example of this.

kqJrjwjf55c

Thanks, that helps. Seems like he did well on the running plays and struggled on at least half of the pass plays shown.

[supercowboy8]

Just bought three draft guides today and two of them rate Anthony Constanzo as the top offensive tackle available in the draft.

However, in discussions I've seen here, it appears the Tyron Smith is preferred over Constanzo (possibly even by the Cowboys). Why is that?

Now, I've read about Smith's tremendous upside (if that's the reason), but it seems to me (based on what I've read) that Constanzo is more of a sure bet and a better possibility to step in immediately as a starter.

why did you buy those guides. Thats a big waste of money. Those mags are written before the combine.

[28 Joker]

Alex Gibbs thinks Smith will be a pro bowl player.

Tyron Smith is a great run blocker at RT and the best run blocking OT in this draft. I've seen him pancake guys at 285. His second level run blocking is elite. Smith has a mean streak. He is a natural RT, and the NFL is projecting him to LT. Smith is the best pass protector in this draft. His combination of athleticism and power blows away every offensive tackle in this draft, and he has been universally compared to D'Brickashaw Ferguson. Smith has the film to back up his freakish measureables.

According to Charlie Casserly, Castonzo needs to get stronger in his legs and will have trouble with the bull rush early on, and he doesn't have as strong of an anchor. He is a better fit for a team like the Patriots, a team with a short passing game. Castonzo will most likely just be a solid, steady player, perhaps at RT. Plus, he will play at 23. Dallas has a serviceable LT already, in Doug Free.

Tyron Smith would be the perfect fit for Felix Jones and Jason Garrett's vertical passing game. He is only 20 years old, and his ceiling is extremely high. He's a blue chip, cornerstone foundation in the offensive line. All things being equal, when he's 32, Smith will be going into his 13th year.

Smith has all the tools to dominate at RT or LT.

The Cowboys old, deteriorated offensive line needs a dominate player, and Smith has all the tools to dominate in the NFL. He would really open up the field and playbook for Felix Jones and keep Tony Romo off his back. By at least November, Smith would be Dallas' best offensive linemen, imo.

The line is in horrendous shape, and Smith's talent is badly needed up front. Adding inferior players like Carimi, Castonzo, Solder, or Sherrod wouldn't have near the impact that adding a superior talent like Tyron Smith would have. Dallas needs a difference maker, a dominating player, and Smith fits the bill.

[gimmesix]

Alex Gibbs thinks Smith will be a pro bowl player.

Tyron Smith is a great run blocker at RT and the best run blocking OT in this draft. I've seen him pancake guys at 285. His second level run blocking is elite. Smith has a mean streak. He is a natural RT, and the NFL is projecting him to LT. Smith is the best pass protector in this draft. His combination of athleticism and power blows away every offensive tackle in this draft, and he has been universally compared to D'Brickashaw Ferguson. Smith has the film to back up his freakish measureables.

According to Charlie Casserly, Castonzo needs to get stronger in his legs and will have trouble with the bull rush early on, and he doesn't have as strong of an anchor. He is a better fit for a team like the Patriots, a team with a short passing game. Castonzo will most likely just be a solid, steady player, perhaps at RT. Plus, he will play at 23. Dallas has a serviceable LT already, in Doug Free.

Tyron Smith would be the perfect fit for Felix Jones and Jason Garrett's vertical passing game. He is only 20 years old, and his ceiling is extremely high. He's a blue chip, cornerstone foundation in the offensive line. All things being equal, when he's 32, Smith will be going into his 13th year.

Smith has all the tools to dominate at RT or LT.

The Cowboys old, deteriorated offensive line needs a dominate player, and Smith has all the tools to dominate in the NFL. He would really open up the field and playbook for Felix Jones and keep Tony Romo off his back. By at least November, Smith would be Dallas' best offensive linemen, imo.

The line is in horrendous shape, and Smith's talent is badly needed up front. Adding inferior players like Carimi or Castonzo wouldn't have near the impact of adding the caliber of player of Tyron Smith. Dallas needs a difference maker, a dominating player, and Smith fits the bill.

Thanks, 41. This is what I wanted to read.

I don't like the combine seemingly shooting up a player's stock. Measurables do not make the man, so it's good to read comments about his play.

PFW seems to really question his football IQ, with that being the main concern along with playing with a narrow base and lacking power (which might be attributed to the weight he played at).

The comments it makes about him potentially having trouble with complex blitzes concerned me because we've got enough problems there as is.

[Chocolate Lab]

FWIW, Gimmesix, a bunch of us -- or at least some of us -- aren't totally sold on Smith, either.

[28 Joker]

Thanks, 41. This is what I wanted to read.

I don't like the combine seemingly shooting up a player's stock. Measurables do not make the man, so it's good to read comments about his play.

PFW seems to really question his football IQ, with that being the main concern along with playing with a narrow base and lacking power (which might be attributed to the weight he played at).

The comments it makes about him potentially having trouble with complex blitzes concerned me because we've got enough problems there as is.

Your welcome.

When it comes to Smith, I wouldn't listen to Pro Football Weekly. Their hit job on Smith (medical) appears to have been debunked by Chad Reuter of CBS Sports.com.

Tyron Smith is very strong in his upper body, and he plays with a textbook wide base. Smith has the most powerful hand punch of any of the first round offensive tackles. Nate Solder is the guy who plays with the narrow base, not Smith. Tyron is the guy who sinks his hips and plays with a solid, wide base. He's the guy who gets great leverage with his great technique and ideal height. His 36 1/2 inch arms and his 85 3/4 inch wing span helps him keep guys from getting into him and helps him recover. Plus, he has that powerful hand punch to stun and halt his opponent. Smith at 285 (on film) is the best offensive tackle in this draft. He's going to be even better with his added muscle and strength.

Castonzo has teams concerned about his back and knees according to NFL Network. Pro Football Weekly has Castonzo rated above Smith and gave Castonzo a free pass in this regards. Castonzo is no where near the superior athlete than Tyron Smith is on the football field.

Pete Carrol stated that Smith can come in and play right away. Matt Mosely quoted some NFL scouts, and one talked about how Smith had the film to back up his exceptional measureables.

[28 Joker]

FWIW, Gimmesix, a bunch of us -- or at least some of us -- aren't totally sold on Smith, either.


Mosley talked to 3 AFC scouts and 1 NFC scout in order to seek out the safest players in the draft. Tyron Smith made the list of 6 players. He rated him fourth.

People have heard how there was "no offensive tackle worth a top 10 pick" for months. That has been drilled into everyone's head. However, I've been advocating drafting Smith at 9 since Wes Bunting came out and stated that he could be a top 10 pick. (December) ? I first learned about him then. That was a long, long, long time ago. I have argued for drafting Smith at 9 for months and received significant resistance, and now the experts have aligned with what I have been arguing for, drafting Tyron Smith at 9.

If Smith is only a RT, and the NFL doesn't see his future at RT, he is the best RT in the draft and has all the tools to dominate at RT in the NFL. Plus, he has the film at RT to strengthen his case to be drafted by Dallas, because they need a RT bad.

There is a reason why Smith was able to just weigh in and lift at the combine and shoot up draft boards. Smith has the film and very high ceiling to back up his elite measureables according to an AFC scout, via Mosley. Erik Williams...Rayfield Wright... Didn't Dallas lose a game at RT last year? Mark Colombo is the worst OT in the entire NFL, and he is holding the offense hostage.

Tony Romo can't keep taking the beat downs that he has received in 2008 and 2010 and last much longer. Tyron Smith is a perfect fit for Felix Jones and the perfect fit for Garrett's vertical passing game. Smith is exceptional in pass protection, and we have not seen him at his very best, yet.

Gabe Carimi- projects to RT only and may be a guard due to his lack of foot quickness; doesn't excel in space; played in a heavy run based offense. Did Wisconsin ever throw the football? He has bust written all over him, imo. His strength comes as an inline run blocker. Teams will not just rush him down the middle. They will exploit his lack of foot quickness on the edge and set him up for bull rushes and inside and outside moves. NFL edge rushers will wear him out after they make him edge conscious. He will need that TE a bunch, and he is best suited for a run heavy team like the Chiefs. Plus, he was listed at 327 at Wisconsin and is listed at 314 now. Is he going to lose his pop as an inline run blocker, because that is his calling card. He's one of the most over rated players that I've ever seen, and he called himself the "best offensive linemen in the draft". In his dreams...Carimi will play at 23 this year.

Derek Sherrod-Played LT and is a natural LT. Will he need to be broken in at RT or OG? If so, he doesn't have Tyron Smith's film or experience at RT. He isn't very physical at the point of attack. He doesn't finish his blocks and lacks a mean streak on the field. He is a finesse player who will be best used on the left side by a team like the Colts. He will play at 22 this year. I like him behind Tyron.

Nate Solder-Big upside as a LT, but he has bust potential. He lacks power and needs to get stronger in order to anchor better. He plays with a narrow base and struggles to get a push in the running game. Solder is prone to getting beat inside. I wonder if he even has a first round grade for the Cowboys. He seems like a player that will struggle at RT until he gets stronger. Solder may not be ready to play his first year, much less start. Plus, he will play at 23 this year. This is the over hyped player. ESPN...

You may not even want an offensive tackle in round one, but the value has aligned with the Cowboys huge need, and time will tell if Dallas will cash in a B.J. Raiji type of value.

If Smith was coming out as a senior, he would be a top 5 pick next year. He didn't play at Mississippi State, Wisconsin, or Colorado. He plays on a stacked USC team.

[TheCount]

Your welcome.

When it comes to Smith, I wouldn't listen to Pro Football Weekly. Their hit job on Smith (medical) appears to have been debunked by Chad Reuter of CBS Sports.com.

Tyron Smith is very strong in his upper body, and he plays with a textbook wide base. Smith has the most powerful hand punch of any of the first round offensive tackles. Nate Solder is the guy who plays with the narrow base, not Smith. Tyron is the guy who sinks his hips and plays with a solid, wide base. He's the guy who gets great leverage with his great technique and ideal height. His 36 1/2 inch arms and his 85 3/4 inch wing span helps him keep guys from getting into him and helps him recover. Plus, he has that powerful hand punch to stun and halt his opponent. Smith at 285 (on film) is the best offensive tackle in this draft. He's going to be even better with his added muscle and strength.

Castonzo has teams concerned about his back and knees according to NFL Network. Pro Football Weekly has Castonzo rated above Smith and gave Castonzo a free pass in this regards. Castonzo is no where near the superior athlete than Tyron Smith is on the football field.

Pete Carrol stated that Smith can come in and play right away. Matt Mosely quoted some NFL scouts, and one talked about how Smith had the film to back up his exceptional measureables.

I stopped reading at "strongest hand punch", which is just a bold faced lie. Smith has a lot if things in his favor, a strong punch is not one of them.

[28 Joker]

I stopped reading at "strongest hand punch", which is just a bold faced lie. Smith has a lot if things in his favor, a strong punch is not one of them.


Go read what Bryan Broaddus said about his hand punch. Calling me a liar is pretty low. I'll get you a link. By the way Broaddus drafted Tra Thomas for the Eagles at 11, and he is a former NFL scout.

[supercowboy8]

I stopped reading at "strongest hand punch", which is just a bold faced lie. Smith has a lot if things in his favor, a strong punch is not one of them.

actually his hand punch is quite strong. I have seen many games as when Tyron Smith knocks defenders back with one punch in pass protection. He has real long arms and a great punch. My only problem with Smith is when people call him a LT. He isn't a LT right now I don't want him to play LT next year, in 5 years lets see where he is. You can argue taking a RT at 9 but San Fran took Davis at 11 last year. My other problem with Smith is in run blocking, he can get to the second level no problem, its his initial off the line hit. He goes to high at times and miss his block. But thats just coaching which he will get. I wouldn't draft him at 9 if I needed a LT this year, but he can come in and start day one at RT.

I'm sick of all this talk and just ready for the draft.

[28 Joker]

I stopped reading at "strongest hand punch", which is just a bold faced lie. Smith has a lot if things in his favor, a strong punch is not one of them.


You need to do your research before you call me a liar, Count Dracula. Seasme Street 101..Get your ducks in a row before you count them.

Broaddus on Tyron Smith's hand punch:

Has (Castonzo) better punch in the running game than he does in pass protection. Smith has the best punch of the tackles I have seen.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4679015/draft-watch-boston-college-ot-anthony-castonzo


Broaddus on Carimi's hand puch:

Mauler, brawler type of player that is a push/shove blocker. He will try to hammer his man at the point of attack with a physical punch, but there are times where he really lacks sustain to finish the block.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4679038/draft-watch-wisconsin-ot-gabe-carimi

By the way, Broaddus pretty much nails Carimi on this report. Carimi is nothing more than a mauler (who doesn't excell in space) and push/shove blocker.

Tyron Smith has a very strong, jolting hand punch. That information is out there.

[supercowboy8]

Go read what Bryan Broaddus said about his hand punch. Calling me a liar is pretty low. I'll get you a link. By the way Broaddus drafted Tra Thomas for the Eagles at 11, and he is a former NFL scout.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4679067/draft-watch-usc-ot-tyron-smith

all I could find

[gimmesix]

actually his hand punch is quite strong. I have seen many games as when Tyron Smith knocks defenders back with one punch in pass protection. He has real long arms and a great punch. My only problem with Smith is when people call him a LT. He isn't a LT right now I don't want him to play LT next year, in 5 years lets see where he is. You can argue taking a RT at 9 but San Fran took Davis at 11 last year. My other problem with Smith is in run blocking, he can get to the second level no problem, its his initial off the line hit. He goes to high at times and miss his block. But thats just coaching which he will get. I wouldn't draft him at 9 if I needed a LT this year, but he can come in and start day one at RT.

I'm sick of all this talk and just ready for the draft.

I have no problem taking a right tackle at 9. I just don't want Dallas to take a potential right tackle at 9 who fails to live up to that potential.

I'm fine if that doesn't describe Smith, as 41 says, but I'd rather go with the safe guy who might never be a Pro Bowler than the potential bust if it does.

I just wanted some assurances that Smith is not just another Alex Barron-type who wows with his athletic potential but doesn't know how to use it.

[28 Joker]

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4679067/draft-watch-usc-ot-tyron-smith

all I could find


That is a good one. Think about the explosive outside runner that Felix Jones is for the Cowboys and think about Garrett wanting to attack vertically and compare that Smith report to his Carimi report.

[supercowboy8]

I have no problem taking a right tackle at 9. I just don't want Dallas to take a potential right tackle at 9 who fails to live up to that potential.

I'm fine if that doesn't describe Smith, as 41 says, but I'd rather go with the safe guy who might never be a Pro Bowler than the potential bust if it does.

I just wanted some assurances that Smith is not just another Alex Barron-type who wows with his athletic potential but doesn't know how to use it.

no Smith is no where near Barron. Barron is slow.

Smith isn't a potential starter at RT. He is a starting RT, now he is a potential LT. Costanzo isn't a RT, he doesn't have the strength I don't think. If I had to take a day one starting LT I would take Castanzo or Sherrod due to their experience at LT. At RT I would take Smith or Carimi.

[28 Joker]

I have no problem taking a right tackle at 9. I just don't want Dallas to take a potential right tackle at 9 who fails to live up to that potential.

I'm fine if that doesn't describe Smith, as 41 says, but I'd rather go with the safe guy who might never be a Pro Bowler than the potential bust if it does.

I just wanted some assurances that Smith is not just another Alex Barron-type who wows with his athletic potential but doesn't know how to use it.


Here is a really good breakdown of Tyron Smith's game from Greg Gabriel (National Fooball Post). He talks about his hand punch and power.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Breaking-down-Tyron-Smith-and-Nate-Solder.html

In pass protection he sets very quickly with excellent lateral movement. You always see him in good football position. He has a strong base with very good knee bend. He can slide laterally to mirror and can shift his weight and move back to the inside. He has good hand use, keeping his hands inside with a compact punch. With his power he easily handles bull rushers.

People can like Smith or not. I don't care. I have a strong conviction about the player's fit in Dallas. I don't like being called a liar, though. That really isn't necessary. You didn't do that.

[UnoDallas]

Because of his weight, Tyron gets the tag as a finesse player but is actually a much better run blocker than he gets credit for. He has very good natural strength,gets consistent push in the run game and is more than just a positional blocker. He's also one of the best OT's at the second level I can remember in recent years. Now I'm not under the impression that he's going to overpower guys at the next level (especially when he drops back down to 285 as the season goes on) but he'll be a stronger, more physical run blocker than D'Brick was early on in his career.
Tyron Smith shut down a top 10 pick in Cameron Jordan.

Charles Johnson was the LT when Tyron Smith first moved to RT.

And Matt Kalil was Smith's back-up all of '09 despite being a year and a half older.

Lane Kiffen moved Kalil to LT last season instead of Smith because he knew Kalil would be coming back in 2011.

Kalil red shirted as a freshman while the younger Smith was active and then backed Smith up the following season.

Don't try to play the LT card.

If Kalil was better, he'd have gotten on the field sooner.

He couldn't take RT from Smith and had to wait his turn.

And Kalil will be a first round selection when he goes pro, IMO, he's a good player.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81f0551a/USC-pro-day-report?module=HP_video (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81f0551a/USC-pro-day-report?module=HP_video)

[gimmesix]

no Smith is no where near Barron. Barron is slow.

Smith isn't a potential starter at RT. He is a starting RT, now he is a potential LT. Costanzo isn't a RT, he doesn't have the strength I don't think. If I had to take a day one starting LT I would take Castanzo or Sherrod due to their experience at LT. At RT I would take Smith or Carimi.

Barron was not considered slow coming out of college. His bio reads a lot like Smith's, except his knocks are a little worse.

The problem with Barron is not speed, but his football IQ. He guesses on what the defensive lineman is going to do and gets himself out of position and can't adjust. Bad form plus bad IQ equals bad player.

[Chocolate Lab]

I just wanted some assurances that Smith is not just another Alex Barron-type who wows with his athletic potential but doesn't know how to use it.
Here's a related kind of question... I still don't see why everyone is so sold on Smith but most people think Solder, who has a very similar profile as a very rangy, athletic guy who hasn't yet reached his potential, is a bum.

And all this as Von Miller, who most people consider the best passrusher in the draft, said Solder was better than the two tackles taken #4 and #6 overall in last year's draft.

I have no reason to favor Solder -- I dislike Colorado a lot, and will miss the Big 12 being able to beat up on them -- but I just don't see the logic here. I guess it's all that Smith is 20 years old.

[supercowboy8]

Barron was not considered slow coming out of college. His bio reads a lot like Smith's, except his knocks are a little worse.

The problem with Barron is not speed, but his football IQ. He guesses on what the defensive lineman is going to do and gets himself out of position and can't adjust. Bad form plus bad IQ equals bad player.

I don't care what his scouting bio said all I remember is what I saw from Barron when he played in college and he was slow. He might have been a athletic freak but on the field he was slow off the snap.

I don't see any Barron in Smith. I see more of a Ferguson, Jason Smith, and Ryan Clady.

[gimmesix]

Here's a related kind of question... I still don't see why everyone is so sold on Smith but most people think Solder, who has a very similar profile as a very rangy, athletic guy who hasn't yet reached his potential, is a bum.

And all this as Von Miller, who most people consider the best passrusher in the draft, said Solder was better than the two tackles taken #4 and #6 overall in last year's draft.

I have no reason to favor Solder -- I dislike Colorado a lot, and will miss the Big 12 being able to beat up on them -- but I just don't see the logic here. I guess it's all that Smith is 20 years old.

I read he looked bad in Senior Bowl practices and the game, was beaten a lot.

[gimmesix]

I don't care what his scouting bio said all I remember is what I saw from Barron when he played in college and he was slow. He might have been a athletic freak but on the field he was slow off the snap.

I don't see any Barron in Smith. I see more of a Ferguson, Jason Smith, and Ryan Clady.

Fair enough.

[gimmesix]

BTW, I'm officially amped for the draft. I usually start champing at the bit over it before March ends, but I think the lockout/decertification crap caused it to sneak up on me this year.

That's good in a way because I won't have to fixate on it as long as I usually do.

[TheCount]

Go read what Bryan Broaddus said about his hand punch. Calling me a liar is pretty low. I'll get you a link. By the way Broaddus drafted Tra Thomas for the Eagles at 11, and he is a former NFL scout.

I wasn't calling YOU anything.

Smith's punch is unimpressive and he is susceptible to power. Smith is the quintessential "Wall-Off" blocker. He's capable of taking a guy out of a play by putting himself between the defender and the play and riding him out, people are trying to make him seem like a power blocker and I have seen almost zero evidence of that.

Saying he has the strongest punch of any tackle in the draft is, in my opinion, complete hyperbole.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I think when Tyron gets a full head of steam in the open field he is a punishing run blocker.

We know Count is the resident Tyron hater but I agree that he could use a punch more(Talking about Tyron).

I think hes so quick he sometimes tries to just do one of these...

4Tb7yCCT4nM&feature=related

[tm1119]

The Tyron cool-aide sure is strong and plentiful around here.... You would swear he's already made a pro bowl by the way people here talk about him. Yes, he's a great athlete, and yes this could lead to him being a great tackle. But there is still a lot more to playing in the nfl. He's going to need to improve his footwork and become a student of the game if he wants to be a good LT in the NFL. And it's not a lock that he will do these things, not a lock that he won'teither though. I agree that Smith should be the 1st o-lineman drafted, but I also believe Camiri and Castonzo are both capable RT's that we can trade back for while acquiring an additional 2nd + either a 3rd or 4th. That's my main argument against drafting Smith at 9. Why draft him when we can get a suitable RT + either a starting OG or defensive player on top?

[Gaede]

Here's a related kind of question... I still don't see why everyone is so sold on Smith but most people think Solder, who has a very similar profile as a very rangy, athletic guy who hasn't yet reached his potential, is a bum.



I asked this a while ago and no one answered. (Also, why would most ppl be happy with Aldon Smith but not JJ Watt? Watt has only played his position for 2 years and has elite athleticism as well.)

Solder has very little tackle experience and yet played extremely well already and is very athletic, while Smith played really good and is also very athletic. But why is it only one of the two players has 'all-pro' potential and the other is a bust in the making?

[TheCount]

We know Count is the resident Tyron hater but I agree that he could use a punch more(Talking about Tyron).

:laugh2:

Oh brother. Go back a few months and read where I was one of the few defending Tyron when everyone was saying he was too light and would never be able to gain or maintain a good playing weight without losing his athletisim.

I've been realistic about the kid the entire time.

He showed up at the combine at over 300 lbs and a lot of people lost their mind, now all of a sudden he's Joe Thomas, Jake Long and D'Brickashaw Ferguson in one. He's going to be a starting NFL tackle for 10 years and be a perennial pro bowler.

Ever since he gained the weight no one wants to see any flaws, which is fine, but refusing to see them doesn't mean they aren't there.

[supercowboy8]

Here is my thing, I'm not in love with Tyron Smith and would be just as happy with Carimi. But if Dallas has to pick at 9 then I want Smith. If we trade back I want us to trade back far enough to add several picks and still get Carimi. Either way I'm happy.

[TheCount]

Here is my thing, I'm not in love with Tyron Smith and would be just as happy with Carimi. But if Dallas has to pick at 9 then I want Smith. If we trade back I want us to trade back far enough to add several picks and still get Carimi. Either way I'm happy.

Agreed.

[fortdick]

He was a four year starter too

Nominated for Rhodes scholar as well. From boston College where they produce excellent OLinemen. Kid has a lot going for him.

[big dog cowboy]

But if Dallas has to pick at 9 then I want Smith. If we trade back I want us to trade back far enough to add several picks and still get Carimi.
That sounds like a great start. Depending on what we get, I'm almost in favor of trading back a few spots provided Carimi is still there for us.

[burmafrd]

I would rather get the better player than another 3rd rd pick that would be later than ours.

This guy will not be 21 until late in the season; think of how long we could have him. To me that is a rarely mentioned reason. I think he might be younger than Witten was when we got him.

[visionary]

Here is my thing, I'm not in love with Tyron Smith and would be just as happy with Carimi. But if Dallas has to pick at 9 then I want Smith. If we trade back I want us to trade back far enough to add several picks and still get Carimi. Either way I'm happy.

this exactly

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Solder is like 6'13" and not that strong. I think he will get eaten up by the Trent Coles of the league and he worries the hell out of me. I dont trust his bend on the guys who get low.

He did the least amount of reps among OL. 8 less reps than Tyron w/ 1 inch shorter arms.

I think most of these guys could get right under his pads and throw him around

[Gaede]

I would rather get the better player than another 3rd rd pick that would be later than ours.

This guy will not be 21 until late in the season; think of how long we could have him. To me that is a rarely mentioned reason.

That's funny, because that's the only reason I typically see

[burmafrd]

That's funny, because that's the only reason I typically see

not around here.

[Gaede]

not around here.

Yes around here. Go browse some of the Tyron Smith threads. You'll see his age mentioned in just about every positive post

[TheCount]

The fact that he's 20 gets mentioned all the time, usually right before the fact that he'll be a starter for 10+ years.

[DFWJC]

Just bought three draft guides today and two of them rate Anthony Constanzo as the top offensive tackle available in the draft.

However, in discussions I've seen here, it appears the Tyron Smith is preferred over Constanzo (possibly even by the Cowboys). Why is that?

Now, I've read about Smith's tremendous upside (if that's the reason), but it seems to me (based on what I've read) that Constanzo is more of a sure bet and a better possibility to step in immediately as a starter.
This one I think we really know the answer to for a year or three.

[WilmingtonHeel]

I agree with the majority here he is only "20" you cannot state this enough he is only half of what he "could" be. Sometime you have to take a shot with the upside this young man has. Back to that UNC BC clip that was a healthy Duenta Williams in that clip who's going to drop because of an injury going to be steal in the latter rounds

[GloryDaysRBack]

That's what everyone was saying about Amobi Okoye..didn't turn out that great for Houston..

I want the guy bc I think he's the best..not bc of his age

[SilverStarCowboy]

I agree that Anthony Castonzo started for 4 years and is more experienced to play RT this year, but Castonzo looks over matched early vs Quinns' speed rush. In the NFL there will be a Quinn in the game every week. He doesn't look like he will be able play LT on the next level.

Tyron is an unproven comodity, but a super high cieling prospect as an athlete as good or better than some of the elite LTs in the game were when they came out in the Draft.


With what we already know it says alot that Smith was able to put on alot of wieght by the Combine and Proday respectively, and keep his speed. As a 309 lbs OT he could dominate this year at RT on pure athleticism.


At 319 lbs next year, he could be our best OT.

[Gaede]

That's what everyone was saying about Amobi Okoye..didn't turn out that great for Houston..

I want the guy bc I think he's the best..not bc of his age

Me too.When you sell a guy by saying he's not nearly as good he could be, red flags go up. We see these type of guys every year and all the hype following the combine apparently wipes our memory clear

[realtick]

Me too.When you sell a guy by saying he's not nearly as good he could be, red flags go up. We see these type of guys every year and all the hype following the combine apparently wipes our memory clear

The same thing can be said about taking the "safer" or "sure thing" in Castanzo.

See Bobby Carpenter.

The reality is nobody knows either way.

[WilmingtonHeel]

Ditto

[Fla Cowpoke]

Since when is a guy that started for two years at a BCS level school inexperienced? Remember that he is only a Junior....not many of them play at a school like So Cal but he was the backup as a freshman and played special teams, then started as a sophomore and junior. This is a team that is on National TV every week. If you haven't seen him play it's because you haven't watched much college football. Some folks make it sound like he came from Sonoma St or Emporia St for crying out loud.

The game tape is out there. He looks consistently better than any of the top tier of tackles and has the highest ceiling of any of them. Castonzo has serious troubles with speed and Solder had trouble with both speed and power. I honestly don't know how anyone can watch video of Solder and say with a straight face that he is nearly as good right now than Carimi, Smith, Sherrod or Castonzo.

Almost across the board the scouts say that Carimi's best fit might be at guard. He has potential to be a RT in the pros. He does actually have better measureables than most of us expected. But he doesn't really seem to translate his athleticism on to the field.

[Picksix]

actually his hand punch is quite strong. I have seen many games as when Tyron Smith knocks defenders back with one punch in pass protection. He has real long arms and a great punch. My only problem with Smith is when people call him a LT. He isn't a LT right now I don't want him to play LT next year, in 5 years lets see where he is. You can argue taking a RT at 9 but San Fran took Davis at 11 last year. My other problem with Smith is in run blocking, he can get to the second level no problem, its his initial off the line hit. He goes to high at times and miss his block. But thats just coaching which he will get. I wouldn't draft him at 9 if I needed a LT this year, but he can come in and start day one at RT.

I'm sick of all this talk and just ready for the draft.


Amen.

[DFWJC]

The bottom line with all "prospects" is that they are unproven.

For all we know, Costanzo could turn out to be FAR batter than Smith.

My personal take right now is that Smith is worth a top 15 pick and I not so sure that Costanzo is. But none of us will know for a year or two.

Think Vernon Gholson--who was a recent "can't miss" by many pikced I 6th ovderall (i think ). He was nowhere near worthy of that pick or even a a second or third rounder slot.

Drafting is a crap shoot, but the odds are tilted to the higher round players at least making a contribution. Now whether they are worth their draft slots is another story altogether.

[VACowboy]

Smith has extremely long arms, great strength, superb quickness and athleticism in a 6-5, 310 lb. package. He was a productive player on one of the highest profile teams in the country--against big-time college competition. I've read the opinions of two separate talent evaluators who say Smith is (not "can become" or "will be") the best run blocker in the draft. Where the idea has come from that Smith can't start immediately at RT and play well, I have no idea. The fact that he's 20 years old with huge upside is just icing on the cake.

[proscout]

Smith has extremely long arms, great strength, superb quickness and athleticism in a 6-5, 310 lb. package. He was a productive player on one of the highest profile teams in the country--against big-time college competition. I've read the opinions of two separate talent evaluators who say Smith is (not "can become" or "will be") the best run blocker in the draft. Where the idea has come from that Smith can't start immediately at RT and play well, I have no idea. The fact that he's 20 years old with huge upside is just icing on the cake.

Would not be one bit surprised if the Cowboys passed on Smith and were looking at Castonzo or Solder or one of these defensive ends. The more I study these players and the more I hear the whispers the more I believe that they are praying that there are names on that board when its their turn to pick and they will have the option to move down. Just sounds like their board has tight groupings in several positions and if that is the case, then moving down will be an option but they will need to have a name that someone is willing to come get. None of this will happen until we see who the first 8 selections are.

[28 Joker]

Would not be one bit surprised if the Cowboys passed on Smith and were looking at Castonzo or Solder or one of these defensive ends. The more I study these players and the more I hear the whispers the more I believe that they are praying that there are names on that board when its their turn to pick and they will have the option to move down. Just sounds like their board has tight groupings in several positions and if that is the case, then moving down will be an option but they will need to have a name that someone is willing to come get. None of this will happen until we see who the first 8 selections are.


proscout,

What would you do?

Would you draft Tyron Smith at 9?

I heard today that the Eagles are a possible trade partner for the Titans, so the Titans can move back form 8. Jake Locker would most likely be their target if they moved that far back. They need DE, QB, and I have heard consistently that they like Amukamara. The Eagles have two pass rushers and two WRs and a QB. The Titans will most likely take Nick Fairley if on the board.

Who would the Eagles be coming up for?

Tyron Smith

Howard Mudd...The Eagles are going away from the wide hips player.

The best RT in the draft who has LT skills to protect Vick's blind side and who can get McCoy in space (outside) and to the second level... The RT with the best combination of athletic ability and power in the draft and who has huge upside... OL is big on the Eagles' list, and Ijalana is their only big visit from the offensive tackles. Hmmm. They were sniffing around all of them at the Senior Bowl.

On the other hand, if Smith, Solder, and Castonzo are rated that close together by the rest of the NFL, the Eagles would stay put. I'm not so sure about that part.

All the talk about Smith's "knee" at this stage in the draft should be a sign that teams want Smith out of that top 10 or to fall into the teens.

I could for sure see Andy Reid jumping up for Tyron Smith. Will it happen? I don't know. First he has to be worried about Dallas at 9.

[28 Joker]

Tyron Smith is too good of a player to clear Cleveland, Dallas, Washington, Minnesota, and Detroit. And Reid is lurking and aggressive, too. If Dallas trades back to the Rams (and arms Sam Bradford in the NFC; not very smart by the way), Tyron Smith is most likely gone.

[28 Joker]

Would not be one bit surprised if the Cowboys passed on Smith and were looking at Castonzo or Solder or one of these defensive ends. The more I study these players and the more I hear the whispers the more I believe that they are praying that there are names on that board when its their turn to pick and they will have the option to move down. Just sounds like their board has tight groupings in several positions and if that is the case, then moving down will be an option but they will need to have a name that someone is willing to come get. None of this will happen until we see who the first 8 selections are.


Before you make your choice on whether or not you would pass on Tyron Smith at 9 or if you think the Cowboys should, take a look at Dallas' draft history in rounds 2 and 3. Is eveyone really confident the the Cowboys organization can draft successfully in these rounds? Are you confident? You had a key role in drafting Tra Thomas at number 11.

Here is a list of the Cowboys 2nd and 3rd round picks from 2000-2010: (Repost)

2010:

2-Sean Lee (TBD) Looks promising.

2009:

3-Jason Williams
3-Robert Brewster

The Cowboys had two third round picks, and both of them were busts. Robert "Buster" was cut and passed through waivers and is on the practice squad. Williams was cut.

2008:

2-Martellus Bennett

A great blocker who has big potential as an overall TE, but he is playing behind a future Hall of Fame player. Can he ever reach his true potential behind Witten?

2007:

3-James Marten

At least "Buster" Douglas knocked Mike Tyson out.


2006:

2-Anthony Fasano
3-Jason Hatcher

Fasano couldn't perform the F back role he was drafted for. He was a poor blocker. Importantly, he let a sure TD pass go right though his hands and hit him in the face mask (in the 2007 Divisional playoff debacle). Hatcher never became a starter and was role player, and he appears to be on the way out. He was over drafted. NE wanted him in round 4.

2005:

2-Kevin Burnett

Good cover linebacker but left after four years and never started. His rookie year was a disappointment. He was drafted to play outside, but he was not that type of player. That led to (gulp) Bobby Carpenter in 2006. He wasn't fit for that role, either.

2004:

2- Julius Jones
2- Jacob Rodgers
3- Stephen Peterman

Rodgers had a shoulder injury and should have never been drafted. This was on Parcells. Julius Jones had one good year and fizzled fast. Peterman suffered a bad leg injury his rookie year and couldn't over come it and was released.

2003:

2-Al Johnson
3-Jason Witten

Johnson suffered a bad leg injury and couldn't recover and was released. How Jason Witten lasted that long, I'll never know. It was pure luck. Witten will go to the Hall of Fame some day.

2002:

2-Andre Gurode
3-Derek Ross

Gurode became a multiple pro bowl player at center while the gamble on the character of Ross became a bust.


2001:

2-Quincy Carter
2-Tony Dixon
3- Willie Blade

Carter was over drafted and was cut due to drugs. Dixon was a slow S who was burned over and over and over. Jerry Jones helped build a Super Bowl team in Seattle by giving his first round pick away.

2000:

2-Dwayne Goodrich

Dallas gave their first away for Joey Galloway. Goodrich has a great junior year, but his play drops off big during his senior year. Dallas still takes him in round 2. He suffers a serious injury and ends up in jail.


There were 19 2nd or 3rd round picks. In my opinion, 15 of them were busts. Hatcher and Burnett never became starters despite being picked in rounds 3 and 2 respectively. Burnett is gone, and Hatcher is on the way out. Peterman and Johnson suffered catastrophic leg injuries.

The Cowboys have trouble hitting on one pick in these rounds. I just don't get passing on a blue chip, cornerstone offensive linemen (the best offensive linemen in the draft, Tyron Smith), so you can draft an inferior player in round 1 and get an extra chance to draft the next Robert "Buster".

Only Andre Gurode (2) and Jason Witten (3) have become starters, and they hit big time. Bennett is a solid player but expensive in round 2. Lee (2) has big promise.

Again, as you can see, the Cowboys have trouble hitting on one third rounder, and some want to move down and pick up another third round pick. In fact, the 3rd round has been down right ugly for the Cowboys. It's a house of horrors. Look no further than 2009 to see the results of the two third round picks.

Again, take note of the second round when Dallas just has one pick and see the 2 years that they had two picks (2004 and 2001).

Sean Lee
Martellus Bennett

Anthony Fasano
Kevin Burnett
Julius Jones
Jacob Rodgers
Al Johnson
Andre Gurode
Quincy Carter
Tony Dixon
Dwayne Goodrich

2004 was a year where Dallas had two second round picks. It produced two busts. (Julius Jones and Jacob Rodgers) 2001 was another year that Dallas had two second round picks, and the results were two busts (Carter and Dixon). Look how lonely Andre Gurode, Bennett, and Lee are.

That second round has been ugly too. It's in Freddie Kruger territory. It's a nightmare. Are you sure you want to dip into that round twice?

I'd take the blue chip, cornerstone offensive linemen, Tyron Smith at number 9 and celebrate. If I picked twice in round two, it would be done by moving up from round 3. Choose your poison.

I'm not giving up the best offensive linemen in the draft, so I can get an inferior player in round one and an extra pick of inferior players.

We don't make the choices, but the Cowboys would be wise to look at the names on this list before they do something very stupid.

Tyron Smith gives Dallas B.J. Raiji value at number 9, except the value is in the offensive line.
Felix Jones tallied 1799 all-purpose yards on 202 touches and was the third leading rusher in the playoffs.

[VACowboy]

There are reasons I sit on my couch and watch the Cowboys instead of coaching or scouting for the team, but...

If the Dallas personnel guys really rate Solder "close" enough to Smith that they'd trade Smith for Solder and a 3rd round pick, or even take Solder instead of Smith at #9, I'll be really worried about the team.

[burmafrd]

Most of those that mentioned his age before recently went on about how young he was in a bad way; like his lack of playing time.

Fact is that he is going to have more years in the league at a higher level than Castonso, Solder, Carimi.

[WilmingtonHeel]

Ugh that is ugly:bang2:

[Gaede]

Fact is that he is going to have more years in the league at a higher level than Castonso, Solder, Carimi.

That's not a fact at all. That's the opposite of a fact

[Sam I Am]

That's not a fact at all. That's the opposite of a fact

It's speculation, but it's based on reasonable enough information to predict a future outcome. Smith is younger, physically superior, and far more upside than any of them. To say otherwise would be saying you are blind or bias.

[Gaede]

It's speculation, but it's based on reasonable enough information to predict a future outcome. Smith is younger, physically superior, and far more upside than any of them. To say otherwise would be saying you are blind or bias.

That's not reasonable at all. You can't predict anything in the NFL. To predict success based on age, athleticism and potential is foolish.
I agree that he is physically superior and has more upside, and we all know he's younger, but to speculate that he'll have the longest, most productive career in the NFL and present that speculation as a fact is biased, blind. And unreasonable

[Sam I Am]

That's not reasonable at all. You can't predict anything in the NFL. To predict success based on age, athleticism and potential is foolish.
I agree that he is physically superior and has more upside, and we all know he's younger, but to speculate that he'll have the longest, most productive career in the NFL and present that speculation as a fact is biased, blind. And unreasonable

What? Do you know what an educated guess is? Nobody can predict the future with 100% accuracy, but people can take current information and make an educated guess. (which is what the draft is all about) Nobody with any knowledge of NFL scouting thinks any of the tackles in the draft have more upside than Tyron Smith. If I were a betting man, I would bet BIG TIME Tyron Smith will be the first tackle off the board. Not because I like him, but because HE IS the best OT prospect in the draft. (which happens to be WHY I like him)

I'm not sure you comprehend what the word reasonable means with that post.

[Gaede]

What? Do you know what an educated guess is? Nobody can predict the future with 100% accuracy, but people can take current information and make an educated guess. (which is what the draft is all about) Nobody with any knowledge of NFL scouting thinks any of the tackles in the draft have more upside than Tyron Smith. If I were a betting man, I would bet BIG TIME Tyron Smith will be the first tackle off the board. Not because I like him, but because HE IS the best OT prospect in the draft. (which happens to be WHY I like him)

I'm not sure you comprehend what the word reasonable means with that post.

Sorry, I should've specified that presenting that guess as a fact--as the other poster did--is unreasonable.

[dbair1967]

There are reasons I sit on my couch and watch the Cowboys instead of coaching or scouting for the team, but...

If the Dallas personnel guys really rate Solder "close" enough to Smith that they'd trade Smith for Solder and a 3rd round pick, or even take Solder instead of Smith at #9, I'll be really worried about the team.

I agree, but bottom line is I dont think they are close on our board.

I think its all dis-information.

[28 Joker]

I agree, but bottom line is I dont think they are close on our board.

I think its all dis-information.


I don't think they are close, either. I'm not buying it at all. Plus, Mosley was hardly the first guy to start saying that Dallas really liked Tyron Smith. I recall him pushing Prince Amukamara.

No OT in this class has the blend of size, athletic ability, power, and upside that Tyron Smith possesses. Plus, he's the guy with 2 years of RT experience (in a pro style offense). He's ready to plug and play right now and get the job done, imo.

I tried to convince myself that Nate Solder would be a good pick in a trade back, but Solder is no where near the run blocker or pass blocker that Tyron Smith is right now. Solder needs to get stronger. He has problems with power, and for the right side, he lacks strength for the running game. The stronger DEs will over power him if he can't anchor. Plus, he gets beat inside too often. I like his athletic ability and upside, but again, he lacks Tyron Smith's strength, especially Smith's ability to anchor against the bull rush. That is major comparison between the two players right there.

Solder isn't in Tyron Smith's run blocking class, either. Smith is exceptional on the edge and second level, and he can pancake guys inline. He's strong and gets a good push in the running game. Solder played mostly out of a two point stance (shot gun offense) and while he is good on the edge in run blocking and on the second level, he's not strong at the point of attack in the running game.

Castonzo and Carimi don't fit the athletic profile for me, and I hope Dallas takes neither player. I'd rather have Solder over them, because Solder has much more upside. I really like his athleticism. However, Solder needs to get stronger. Can he handle RT his rookie year? Can he handle the bull rush? Is he strong enough in the running game? Smith will play at 20. Solder will play at 23.

Why take Solder when Smith is ready to go and has everything you are looking for at either OT positions? Plus, he is the 20 year old.

So, you can get an extra third round pick or second round pick. It isn't worth it to me, but I'm not the GM. I just hope the ghost of Robert "Buster" makes his appearance in the Cowboys draft room.

Don Banks stated that Tyron Smith seemed like "the right pick at the right value" if Dallas stays put.

Gil Brandt has Smith rated ahead of Watt and Jordan for sure and says that Dallas should take him over those two guys.

The Cowboys have reason to put out disinformation if they want Tyron Smith, because he's the offensive tackle most teams covet first and several are right behind them in the draft order. The Eagles are very aggressive. There is some risk of getting jumped. The 49ers and Titans have all talked trade down. Amukmara is a player that S.F. or Tennessee could move down and target. That could put Tyron Smith in jeopardy for Dallas if either of those teams traded down. Cameron Jordan and J.J. Watt are players that the Titans probably like. I'm pretty sure they like Watt. Jordan has been linked to the 49ers.

[28 Joker]

Solder doesn't have Tyron Smith's strong hand punch, either. I left that key difference out when I compared them.

That is another key contrast in the comparison.

Castonzo does not have Smith's or Solder's athletic ability.

Those three OTs are far from equal or having no major differences.

The Titans are such a wild card if Fairley is off the board. They could trade way down and take Jake Locker. They could trade down a little bit and pick among Prince Amukamara, J.J. Watt, Cameron Jordan, and perhaps Da"Quan Bowers. All those DEs fit the Titans profile for getting bigger at DE. Peter King mentioned Amukamara as a Titans target, and that confirms what I've been hearing for a month. Robert Quinn would probably interest them, because he's in that 270 range.

If you are Dallas, and you are worried about getting jumped for Tyron Smith, you could put out information that you like this player or that player, who you project the team above you to like, so they think twice about moving down. That is plausible. Time will tell what is true or not true.

The 49ers have really done a lot of work on Robert Quinn, and they want a pass rusher. If Quinn and Miller are gone, they will probably look to move down.

[Woods]

Solder doesn't have Tyron Smith's strong hand punch, either. I left that key difference out when I compared them.

That is another key contrast in the comparison.

Castonzo does not have Smith's or Solder's athletic ability.

Those three OTs are far from equal or having no major differences.

The Titans are such a wild card if Fairley is off the board. They could trade way down and take Jake Locker. They could trade down a little bit and pick among Prince Amukamara, J.J. Watt, Cameron Jordan, and perhaps Da"Quan Bowers. All those DEs fit the Titans profile for getting bigger at DE. Peter King mentioned Amukamara as a Titans target, and that confirms what I've been hearing for a month. Robert Quinn would probably interest them, because he's in that 270 range.

If you are Dallas, and you are worried about getting jumped for Tyron Smith, you could put out information that you like this player or that player, who you project the team above you to like, so they think twice about moving down. That is plausible. Time will tell what is true or not true.

The 49ers have really done a lot of work on Robert Quinn, and they want a pass rusher. If Quinn and Miller are gone, they will probably look to move down.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Titans drafted Locker at 8. There isn't much room to trade down/margin of error.

If they don't take him, Washington, Minn, Miami, and Seattle would definitely consider him, imo.

I think Locker could end up with the Titans at 8.

[InmanRoshi]

I'm growing weary of these Boston College offensive tackles getting highly graded simply because they come from Boston College. You can't tell me that Gosder Cherilus, James Marten and Jeremy Trueblood weren't over drafted compared to their true talent level simply because they came from Boston College and carried that "mystique".

I mean, listen to this NFL guy...

"He’s a guy who could come in and play early because of his experience on the college level, playing both spots, and playing at a university that continually puts out good NFL offensive linemen," Titans scouting coordinator Blake Beddingfield said.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-02-21/boston-college-becomes-big-producer-of-top-line-nfl-linemen

He's basically saying he gives a guy a huge bump based on what color laundry he wore in college. It's ridiuclous. These NFL people are not exactly scientists, and a lot of them use old "football logic" based on a lot of superstition and rules of thumb that may or may not have any real value. I realize BC has put out some good linemen, but are Dan Koppen and Marc Colombo really so great that every player thereafter gets graded on a curve after them, despite all the busts from the same school?

[Sam I Am]

I'm growing weary of these Boston College offensive tackles getting highly graded simply because they come from Boston College. You can't tell me that Gosder Cherilus, James Marten and Jeremy Trueblood weren't over drafted compared to their true talent level simply because they came from Boston College and carried that "mystique".

I mean, listen to this NFL guy...



http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-02-21/boston-college-becomes-big-producer-of-top-line-nfl-linemen

He's basically saying he gives a guy a huge bump based on what color laundry he wore in college. It's ridiuclous. These NFL people are not exactly scientists, and a lot of them use old "football logic" based on a lot of superstition and rules of thumb that may or may not have any real value. I realize BC has put out some good linemen, but are Dan Koppen and Marc Colombo really so great that every player thereafter gets graded on a curve after them, despite all the busts from the same school?

Blake is just blowing smoke InmanRoshi! Get with the program! :laugh2:

[Chocolate Lab]

Amen, IR... Been saying that for a while. The idea that some mediocre school in a middling conference has some special ability to produce extra talented and tough linemen is ridiculous.

[dbair1967]

I'm growing weary of these Boston College offensive tackles getting highly graded simply because they come from Boston College. You can't tell me that Gosder Cherilus, James Marten and Jeremy Trueblood weren't over drafted compared to their true talent level simply because they came from Boston College and carried that "mystique".

I mean, listen to this NFL guy...



http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-02-21/boston-college-becomes-big-producer-of-top-line-nfl-linemen

He's basically saying he gives a guy a huge bump based on what color laundry he wore in college. It's ridiuclous. These NFL people are not exactly scientists, and a lot of them use old "football logic" based on a lot of superstition and rules of thumb that may or may not have any real value. I realize BC has put out some good linemen, but are Dan Koppen and Marc Colombo really so great that every player thereafter gets graded on a curve after them, despite all the busts from the same school?

They have produced alot of quality OL though.

No schools produce dead solid locks at any position.

[InmanRoshi]

They have produced alot of quality OL though.

If you actually start to list them, you'd be surprised how little bang for the buck that reputation is built on.

[28 Joker]

Charlie Casserly just gave his ratings for the 2010-2011 OT class. He combined the two classes and formed his rankings.

Casserly rated Tyron Smith number 2 behind only Russell Okung. This matches up with Wes Bunting's rankings for Smith in comparison to the 2010 OT class. Bunting rated Smith only behind Okung. Both Bunting and Casserly were high on Rodger Saffold, too. Casserly talked about all the different things that Tyron Smith had over all the other players listed below him.

Washington took Trent Williams at number 4. S.F. took Anthony Davis at number 11.

Castonzo was rated towards the bottom, and Casserly stated that he thought that he would be a right side player.

Casserly rates Nate Solder behind Smith for the 2011 class.

[gimmesix]

Here's a comparison of the two (for what it's worth) from Florida's Sun Sentinel:

Production
Boston College’s Anthony Castonzo: Started in all four of his collegiate seasons — and started more than 50 games overall — he developed into one of the top left tackles in the nation during his final two seasons at Boston College. Castonzo earned first-team All-ACC honors as a junior and a senior.
USC’s Tyron Smith: After spending his freshman season in 2008 as a backup, he grabbed hold of the right tackle position at USC and made 24 starts there during his sophomore and junior seasons. Earned all-conference honors after his junior season.
Strengths
Castonzo: At 6-foot-7, he possesses the prototypical frame of an NFL left tackle. He’s a hard worker who doesn’t rely purely on his physical tools to overmatch an opponent. He’s durable, too, having never missed a game in college, and intelligent.
Smith: Physically, Smith might be among the most talented members of the 2011 draft class. He possesses the size and strength to be a top NFL offensive tackle for a long time. He’s extremely quick and has the necessary physical tools to shut down elite pass rushers.
Weaknesses
Castonzo: As tall as the 311-pound Castonzo is, he could stand to add some bulk and strength. In college he was able to get by on technique and positioning but he might lack some of the physical tools to slow down the NFL’s fiercest pass rushers.
Smith: At 307 pounds he’ll need to add some weight to his 6-foot-5 frame. In college he used his physical gifts to overwhelm opponents but needs to become a better student of the game. He missed a game his sophomore season because of academic issues.
Best fit
Castonzo: Buffalo, Dallas and Detroit are three teams with major needs at tackle. The Bills might not want to spend a No. 3 pick on an offensive lineman. If Castonzo slips to the Lions at No. 13 he could make a nice living protecting Matthew Stafford’s backside for the next 10 years.
Smith: Dallas makes a lot of sense at No. 9. The Cowboys need help on the line and could groom Smith as the replacement to veteran right tackle Marc Colombo.
The pick
If it’s a question of talent alone it’d be difficult to pass up Smith. But Castonzo is more the sure thing entering the league. Unlike Smith, Castonzo was an unheralded signee entering college. He had to work for every opportunity and he made the most of his chance.

[PullMyFinger]

Thanks, that helps. Seems like he did well on the running plays and struggled on at least half of the pass plays shown.

Quinn made everyone look like a fool, he was unblockable

[InmanRoshi]

Charlie Casserly just gave his ratings for the 2010-2011 OT class. He combined the two classes and formed his rankings.

Casserly rated Tyron Smith number 2 behind only Russell Okung. This matches up with Wes Bunting's rankings for Smith in comparison to the 2010 OT class. Bunting rated Smith only behind Okung. Both Bunting and Casserly were high on Rodger Saffold, too. Casserly talked about all the different things that Tyron Smith had over all the other players listed below him.

Washington took Trent Williams at number 4. S.F. took Anthony Davis at number 11.

FWIW, Anthony Davis proved to be a fat lazy underachiever in his rookie year just as he was during the draft process. He allowed 11.5 sacks and had 10 penalties (seven were false starts). Even at right tackle, he's just too slow footed for today's game of undersized speed rushers.

[Shinywalrus]

I'm growing weary of these Boston College offensive tackles getting highly graded simply because they come from Boston College. You can't tell me that Gosder Cherilus, James Marten and Jeremy Trueblood weren't over drafted compared to their true talent level simply because they came from Boston College and carried that "mystique".

I mean, listen to this NFL guy...



http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-02-21/boston-college-becomes-big-producer-of-top-line-nfl-linemen

He's basically saying he gives a guy a huge bump based on what color laundry he wore in college. It's ridiuclous. These NFL people are not exactly scientists, and a lot of them use old "football logic" based on a lot of superstition and rules of thumb that may or may not have any real value. I realize BC has put out some good linemen, but are Dan Koppen and Marc Colombo really so great that every player thereafter gets graded on a curve after them, despite all the busts from the same school?

There's some truth to this, but I don't think it's completely fair to dismiss it as just laundry. If there's some pattern of skilled players, there might be reason to assume that there's a good team of coaches, good strength training and a system in place that translates well into making more NFL-ready players.

To me it seems less spurious than quibbling over 1/8" in arm length and the like. Of course, I agree that it's almost certainly overstated.

[Gaede]

I'm not the biggest fan of Castonzo...Comes off as a little arrogant in all the interviews I read. Not the biggest knock, I know, when you're an OL. But still, it makes me less inclined to like the guy