Kipers says T.Smith overrated

[supercowboy8]

Kiper says Tyron Smith is most over rated non QB.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6388540

[egn22]

I think Kiper is overrated. not trying to be a troll or a smart@ss when i say that either. i just really think the guy is given entirely too much attention.

[Sam I Am]

Kiper says Tyron Smith is most over rated non QB.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6388540

The guy has been busted for getting paid to upsell while downselling competing draft prospects by agents.

Those in the know, knows to take nothing he says seriously. Not only does he sell his words, he is terrible at actually judging talent. (not that you would know if he was actually judging or selling, or down selling it)

[AbeBeta]

I have made the Winston Justice comparison a few times before.

I think Smith is far better ... but that both rose up the boards due more to combine/workout performance is something that many teams sour on as the draft approaches -- i think he falls -- not as far as Justice but it wouldn't surprise me if he isn't the first OL off the board

[MonsterD]

Honestly what he said made sense. Smith is really more mid first rounder. I know this is the internet msg board Cowboys fans golden child, but Kiper is saying he is raw and not a sure thing. Why wouldn't the Bills take him at #3 for a LT if he is as good as so many think about him here?

[RoyTheHammer]

Honestly what he said made sense. Smith is really more mid first rounder. I know this is the internet msg board Cowboys fans golden child, but Kiper is saying he is raw and not a sure thing. Why wouldn't the Bills take him at #3 for a LT if he is as good as so many think about him here?


Agreed. I've said this a few times before already, but he simply has issues that a top 10 OT wouldn't have. The top 5 talk with this guy is ludicrous.

[JIMMYBUFFETT]

I don't think he's that overrated, but I do think #9 is a little high. Personally I think Dallas could trade with St. Louis at the 14 spot and still land Smith.

[TheCount]

I think Kiper is overrated. not trying to be a troll or a smart@ss when i say that either. i just really think the guy is given entirely too much attention.

lol, the first stage is always denial.

Of course Smith is overrated when people are saying he should be a top 10 pick based on potential and the size of his muscles.

Doesn't mean he won't be good, but no way is the kid as sure-fire as a lot of people seem to think.

[Duane]

Bunting says Smith is a steal at 9. So I guess we'll see who's right.

[Sam I Am]

Bunting says Smith is a steal at 9. So I guess we'll see who's right.

Even if the subject was completely reversed, I would take what Bunting says over Kiper any day of the week and twice on draft day.

[jterrell]

Bunting says Smith is a steal at 9. So I guess we'll see who's right.

I am not the world's biggest Kiper fan to be sure but Bunting has about zero track record.

He definitely isn't Mike Lombardi who worked the draft angle for NFP last year.

His Career Bio....
He completed a football GM and scouting course from Sports Management Worldwide, studying under Marc Trestman and Russ Lande, and has published scouting reports for NFLSmackdown.com, Scout.com and NFLDraftscout.com. He’s a member of the Football Writers Association of America.


Not exactly a former NFL GM or scout. He completed a sports management course and worked for some draft sites. Well I worked for a draft site for five years so I am just a training course (that I get spam emails about) away from this level of expertise?

[ABQCOWBOY]

I have to agree. To me, a top 10 pick is a guy who should start day one and play at a very high level. I don't see that out of Tyron Smith. BTW, Kiper is not the only one saying he's higher then he should be but Duane also has a point. There are some who see the guy and project him to a Left Tackle type talent so there are obviously different opinions on this player.

[Sam I Am]

I am not the world's biggest Kiper fan to be sure but Bunting has about zero track record.

He definitely isn't Mike Lombardi who worked the draft angle for NFP last year.

His Career Bio....
He completed a football GM and scouting course from Sports Management Worldwide, studying under Marc Trestman and Russ Lande, and has published scouting reports for NFLSmackdown.com, Scout.com and NFLDraftscout.com. He’s a member of the Football Writers Association of America.


Not exactly a former NFL GM or scout. He completed a sports management course and worked for some draft sites. Well I worked for a draft site for five years so I am just a training course (that I get spam emails about) away from this level of expertise?

Actually, Bunting has a pretty good reputation grading out players.

[tm1119]

I rarely agree with Kiper, but I think he's spot on with this. Smith would have been lucky if he went 15th pre combine, but he looked good in shorts and now suddenly jumped 6 or more spots on the big board. This is just another case of people putting too much stock in the combine if you ask me. Not saying Smith can't become a good nfl OT, but I'm not buying the hype that he's worth a top ten pick.

[Hoofbite]

"If you're picking 9 or 10, you need to a get a guy in your top 5"

This just sounds goofy.

[ABQCOWBOY]

"If you're picking 9 or 10, you need to a get a guy in your top 5"

This just sounds goofy.

I think the reasoning there would be that certain players are going to fall because certain players are going to be pushed up. That along with the idea that of the top 10 players or so, a certain number of them are not going to be positions of need for your team while others may be. It's logical to assume that your specific board might have a player you have as a top 5 player, be there at 9.

Thing is, Tyron Smith might be a player the Cowboys have in their top 5. I hate to think that this might be true because honestly, there is a significant amount of evaluators who may not agree with that assumption but hey, maybe we do have in as a top 5 guy? IDK.

[DFWJC]

I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I'm very skeptical of Tyron Smith.

He could turn out to be great, but I just see a lot of risk for a top 10 pick.
He does have nice upside though.

[Duane]

Charlie Casserly really likes Tyron as well but would only pick him top 10 if you thought he could play left tackle for you as well.

I see both sides of the coin but wouldn't hang my hat on what Kiper has to say over anyone else.

[Sam I Am]

I rarely agree with Kiper, but I think he's spot on with this. Smith would have been lucky if he went 15th pre combine, but he looked good in shorts and now suddenly jumped 6 or more spots on the big board. This is just another case of people putting too much stock in the combine if you ask me. Not saying Smith can't become a good nfl OT, but I'm not buying the hype that he's worth a top ten pick.

Part of the hit on him was that he was only 280lbs. The question was, could he get to 300+ and still move like he does at 280lbs. He answered that at the combined and pro day.

[realtick]

I am not the world's biggest Kiper fan to be sure but Bunting has about zero track record.

He definitely isn't Mike Lombardi who worked the draft angle for NFP last year.

His Career Bio....
He completed a football GM and scouting course from Sports Management Worldwide, studying under Marc Trestman and Russ Lande, and has published scouting reports for NFLSmackdown.com, Scout.com and NFLDraftscout.com. He’s a member of the Football Writers Association of America.


Not exactly a former NFL GM or scout. He completed a sports management course and worked for some draft sites. Well I worked for a draft site for five years so I am just a training course (that I get spam emails about) away from this level of expertise?

Why are you hung up on his resume. Judge him for his analysis which is pretty on-point IMO.

You would be pretty disappointed if you read the resumes of half the scouts in the NFL.

[Sam I Am]

I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I'm very skeptical of Tyron Smith.

He could turn out to be great, but I just see a lot of risk for a top 10 pick.
He does have nice upside though.

I don't blame you for being skeptical. He has enough naysayers to knock down the third little piggy's house.

[realtick]

I rarely agree with Kiper, but I think he's spot on with this. Smith would have been lucky if he went 15th pre combine...


Lol, what does this statement even mean?

Players rise and fall all throughout the process (pre-combine, combine, post-combine, proday, et cetera).

Adrian Clayborn was a consensus Top 5-10 prospect all throughout this past season and has seen his stock precipitously drop. Same can be said about Cam Heyward and a few others.

Colen Kapernick has seen his stock rise dramatically.

It happens at both ends; when scouts/teams start examing players closer and testing them out, they get a better idea of who is actually a good prospect and who isn't.

Smith being supposedly being ranked 15th overall (as you've stated) and possibly being picked at #9 is nothing.

[tm1119]

Part of the hit on him was that he was only 280lbs. The question was, could he get to 300+ and still move like he does at 280lbs. He answered that at the combined and pro day.

I fully understand that, but I'm much morie worried about my OT's blocking technique than his straight line speed. I understand that his athletic ability will only help him, but I also feel he had success in college largely due to the fact that he was bigger and more athletic than everybody else. He certainly could be coached up to a great OT, but it's not a sure thing.

[tm1119]

Lol, what does this statement even mean?

Players rise and fall all throughout the process (pre-combine, combine, post-combine, proday, et cetera).

Adrian Clayborn was a consensus Top 5-10 prospect all throughout this past season and has seen his stock precipitously drop. Same can be said about Cam Heyward and a few others.

Colen Kapernick has seen his stock rise dramatically.

It happens at both ends; when scouts/teams start examing players closer and testing them out, they get a better idea of who is actually a good prospect and who isn't.

Smith being supposedly being ranked 15th overall (as you've stated) and possibly being picked at #9 is nothing.

The point was that Smith shot up draft boards solely on his combine #'s. Al Davis has made the Raiders a terrible team drafting players based on the athletic ability and combine #'s. We shouldn't make this mistake on Smith 9th overall. Whether he will be a good player still remains to be seen, he very well may, but he's still a big risk.

[Sam I Am]

I fully understand that, but I'm much morie worried about my OT's blocking technique than his straight line speed. I understand that his athletic ability will only help him, but I also feel he had success in college largely due to the fact that he was bigger and more athletic than everybody else. He certainly could be coached up to a great OT, but it's not a sure thing.

People keep using the term "sure thing" as if it could exists. :laugh2:

[realtick]

The point was that Smith shot up draft boards solely on his combine #'s. Al Davis has made the Raiders a terrible team drafting players based on the athletic ability and combine #'s. We shouldn't make this mistake on Smith 9th overall. Whether he will be a good player still remains to be seen, he very well may, but he's still a big risk.

No. That's simply an assertion you've made.

Bunting had him as his top rated OT well, well, well before the combine. In fact, going back almost a year, prior to the start of this past college season, Bunting had him in his Top 5 OT prospects.

The combine just solidified his status.

[TheFinisher]

Part of the hit on him was that he was only 280lbs. The question was, could he get to 300+ and still move like he does at 280lbs. He answered that at the combined and pro day.

Gaining weight during a pre combine training program is not hard, the real question is whether he can maintain that weight through a 16 game NFL season.

[jterrell]

I fully understand that, but I'm much morie worried about my OT's blocking technique than his straight line speed. I understand that his athletic ability will only help him, but I also feel he had success in college largely due to the fact that he was bigger and more athletic than everybody else. He certainly could be coached up to a great OT, but it's not a sure thing.

It isn't just being that size... it is handling the rigors of a season at that size.

I can squat a lot of weight. But the next day my knees swell up like balloons and I am limping like an invalid. Granted, I am old but shoulders, knees and elbows are not meant to handle just any weight load. You add 25 pounds to a guy and that is a lot more shock with every step.

Smith has proven he can walk around and run 40 yards at a heavier weight. He hasn't proven he can play football that that weight, much play it for 16 weeks.

All that said, he is clearly an elite prospect. I am torn on the guy. I'd prefer good value in a trade down but if stuck at 9 he may well be choice.

[jterrell]

I think the reasoning there would be that certain players are going to fall because certain players are going to be pushed up. That along with the idea that of the top 10 players or so, a certain number of them are not going to be positions of need for your team while others may be. It's logical to assume that your specific board might have a player you have as a top 5 player, be there at 9.

Thing is, Tyron Smith might be a player the Cowboys have in their top 5. I hate to think that this might be true because honestly, there is a significant amount of evaluators who may not agree with that assumption but hey, maybe we do have in as a top 5 guy? IDK.

Just follow the exercise....

My guess is most folks would have a top that excluded both Gabbert and Cam who mock top 9 generally. Add in at least 1 if not both top flight WRs going before 9.

My Cowboys board:
1) Peterson



2) Fairley --- Ratliff Clone to put at DE
3) Dareus --- Monster NT
4) Bowers --- Best of a prospect at DE/OLB
5) T. Smith --- Best prospect at OL
6) Pouncey --- Day 1 starter at OG.
7) Sherrod --- Day 1 starter at RT. Jon Runyanesque RT imho.
8) Quinn --- OLB who could beat out Spencer after a year imho.
9) Mark Ingram --- Day 1 starter and 2 down back who relegates Felix to 3rd down duties.

[johnnyd]

I love the way people always jump on a guys character when they say say something that they dont agree with.

Whether it's Kiper ,Bunting or another poster. You don't agree fine. Discuss it. Stop it with the pety BS.

As for Smith or any other prospect we draft I don't care if we are "overdrafting" a guy by a few slots If we want the guy and the chance is not there to trade back you take the guy you like and need for that matter and don't look back. Save the "reach" arguments when you overdraft by rounds not a handful of picks espcially when you think the player is elite.

[supercowboy8]

I wonder what Dallas board loks like. What if Smith is top 5 on their board.

my top 11
Peterson
Dareus
Miller
Green
Jones
T.Smith
A. Smith
Watt
Jordan
R Quinn
Prince

No I don't have Bowers, Fairley, Gabbert, or Newton. No reason to. I don't need a QB that high plus I don't like either one and Bowers and Fairley doesn't fit in a 3-4.

[DFWJC]

People keep using the term "sure thing" as if it could exists. :laugh2:
lol
The only sure thing is that there is no such thing.

However, "good teams" get few chances to draft in the top 10. You really do not want to miss there, as that player should be (or assumed to be) a plug in and play guy by early year 1.

I suspect Smith could be plugged in at RT. Is right tackle (being pad like LT worth a top 10 pick?)
So the next question is will he play like a top 10 guy for the next 10 years? Nobody knows that.

[Dcowboy84]

bottom line is that especially at this time of year everyone is either overrated or underrated or whatever

we all can name plenty of times when a player rated outside the top 10 or even outside the first round or whatever ended up being a beast..

there's just as many that were rated as top 5 or top 10 that just sucked

then you get guys rated in the bottom of the 1st that go in the top 10 as shockers that end up playing pretty well and making it not look so bad (Tyson Alualu)

so does anyone really know if Tyron Smith is worth #9, or if he will be an elite tackle? no...but we also don't know that he will be another Winston Justice or Alex Barron....only time will tell.

lets just not be so quick to jump all over this KID and what he's worth, when in reality there are ???s about any of the guys we've seen linked to Dallas. i'm not sure if anyone that i've seen pegged at our #9 pick is actually worth #9

we just have to trust the scouts and the coaches...

and i still hold to the fact that i want to see how things look with Garrett as HC for this draft and what kind of impact he'll have. he's the reason i've been thinking we'll actually go o-line this year in the 1st.

i'm just excited to see what we end up doing

[DFWJC]

Like Casserly says, " It's humans grading humans"...so always a ton of room for error on both ends.

And that was a guy who literally lost his job for making BY FAR the right pick (Mario Williams over Reggie Bush or Vince Young). Yet the press --even before any actual NFL performance results were in--bashed him so bad that he was pretty much run out of town. It probably didn't help later in year 1 when VY was doing ok and Mario was hurt.

I saw on NFLNW the other night that Mayock finally apolgized to his now buddy Casserly for killing him for not taking Bush. And Mayock had been kind compared to most sport writers, etc.

[CATCH17]

I have made the Winston Justice comparison a few times before.

I think Smith is far better ... but that both rose up the boards due more to combine/workout performance is something that many teams sour on as the draft approaches -- i think he falls -- not as far as Justice but it wouldn't surprise me if he isn't the first OL off the board


http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191058


Not me his ability is the 1st thing that jumped out at me.

[28 Joker]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191058


Not me his ability is the 1st thing that jumped out at me.


I saw that the first time you reposted it.

Very impressive. That was back in September.

I watched one USC game (the end of one), and I didn't know who he was.

Kiper has promoted Amukamara to Dallas for ever, so I take what he says with a grain of salt. He had Dallas taking Merriman over Ware.

Jimmy Smith is a better player, but he doesn't have the character.

[Nightshade]

Despite his pathetic attempts at mirroring Jimmy Johnson's hair style this man Kiper might have something when it comes to T. Smith huh?

[ThreeandOut]

Other than Kiper, you're not going to be hearing too many of the draft guru's calling it a reach if the Cowboys take Smith at 9. Bunting, Broaddus, Casserly, Brandt, and Mayock all like Smith a lot, so I don't think you'll hear them complaining much if he is taken at 9. Most of their positive evaluations are based off of his tape and not his combine measurements.

The biggest knock on Smith is he didn't play LT in college. If you are a team needing a LT to come in and start immediately, then he is probably not a top ten pick for you. But the Cowboys need a RT that can start immediately and a swing tackle. If Smith can fulfil those two roles, then he could be a top ten for Dallas.

[TheCount]

"If you're picking 9 or 10, you need to a get a guy in your top 5"

This just sounds goofy.

It sounds goofy, but it's the way NFL teams put boards together.

We had Lee in our Top 15 last year, obviously we wouldn't have taken him with the 15th pick in the draft if we had it, but teams don't create boards the same way we do on this forum.

What's funny is that his statements hurt a lot of feelings because some are in love with the kid, but if you actually watch the video he's talking about all the tackles. He says they are all getting pushed up because of the position they play and the lack of blue chip tackle talent.

[ThreeSportStar80]

At 20 years old, I'm sold...

[jobberone]

Other than Kiper, you're not going to be hearing too many of the draft guru's calling it a reach if the Cowboys take Smith at 9. Bunting, Broaddus, Casserly, Brandt, and Mayock all like Smith a lot, so I don't think you'll hear them complaining much if he is taken at 9. Most of their positive evaluations are based off of his tape and not his combine measurements.

The biggest knock on Smith is he didn't play LT in college. If you are a team needing a LT to come in and start immediately, then he is probably not a top ten pick for you. But the Cowboys need a RT that can start immediately and a swing tackle. If Smith can fulfil those two roles, then he could be a top ten for Dallas.

This. I don't think this board is taking the need for a swing tackle as seriously as it should. Right now if Free goes down we are screwed. LT is second only to QB for the offense.

Now I personally think Sherrod can play LT in the NFL. I also think he can play at RT. I think Smith has more upside but is a slightly bigger bust potential.

And the Cowboys may think Constonzo or Carimi may be able to slide to LT for a time if Free goes down. I'm not sold on it but I trust the Boys scouts a lot more than my limited ability to slot draft picks.

[Woods]

This. I don't think this board is taking the need for a swing tackle as seriously as it should. Right now if Free goes down we are screwed. LT is second only to QB for the offense.

Now I personally think Sherrod can play LT in the NFL. I also think he can play at RT. I think Smith has more upside but is a slightly bigger bust potential.

And the Cowboys may think Constonzo or Carimi may be able to slide to LT for a time if Free goes down. I'm not sold on it but I trust the Boys scouts a lot more than my limited ability to slot draft picks.

Drafting T Smith would also let us move on from Barron (I hope). P Young could play RT in case Smith had to move temporarily to LT. I guess we would still need to draft a developmental swing tackle/LT later in the draft - assuming Barron and Colombo are both gone.

[jobberone]

Drafting T Smith would also let us move on from Barron (I hope). P Young could play RT in case Smith had to move temporarily to LT. I guess we would still need to draft a developmental swing tackle/LT later in the draft - assuming Barron and Colombo are both gone.

If they take Smith I'm thinking they keep Colombo but that depends on his health and what they think of Brewster and Young. I've got some hope for Young.

[CATCH17]

I saw that the first time you reposted it.

Very impressive. That was back in September.

I watched one USC game (the end of one), and I didn't know who he was.

Kiper has promoted Amukamara to Dallas for ever, so I take what he says with a grain of salt. He had Dallas taking Merriman over Ware.

Jimmy Smith is a better player, but he doesn't have the character.

Yeah im a nerd for posting it so many times but im just so proud of it lol.

[ThreeandOut]

If they take Smith I'm thinking they keep Colombo but that depends on his health and what they think of Brewster and Young. I've got some hope for Young.

If they take Smith, I think they release Columbo and Barron. Smith is the starting RT and swing tackle and Young is the third tackle.

I'm actually pretty high on Young. IMO he showed more than Free did in his first year.

[unionjack8]

yet he still has him rated top 15......................

[jobberone]

If they take Smith, I think they release Columbo and Barron. Smith is the starting RT and swing tackle and Young is the third tackle.

I'm actually pretty high on Young. IMO he showed more than Free did in his first year.

I can't argue with that. It depends on how much Colombo's health caused him problems last year vs a decline in his play. And how much they think of Young.

[Primetime42]

Well, now I DEFINITELY want Smith at 9 :)

[burmafrd]

Can we really say we trust the Boys to do the right thing on the O line? what is there that shows they really know what they are doing over the last 5 years or so.

[28 Joker]

Charlie Casserly just took the 2010 and 2011 OT classes and ranked them player by player. He rated Tyron Smith number 2 behind only Russell Okung. Casserly went on to talk about all the things that Smith had on the other players rated below him. Casserly rating Smith number 2 overall, aligns with exactly where Wes Bunting had Smith rated, in comparison to the other OTs in the 2010 draft.

Washington took Trent Williams at number 4. S.F. took Anthony Davis at number 11.

Casserly rated Gabe Carimi and Anthony Castonzo towards the bottom and projected both of them to the right side in the NFL.

[AKATheRake]

Honestly what he said made sense. Smith is really more mid first rounder. I know this is the internet msg board Cowboys fans golden child, but Kiper is saying he is raw and not a sure thing. Why wouldn't the Bills take him at #3 for a LT if he is as good as so many think about him here?


:bravo:.........

[DFWJC]

Charlie Casserly just took the 2010 and 2011 OT classes and ranked them player by player. He rated Tyron Smith number 2 behind only Russell Okung. Casserly went on to talk about all the things that Smith had on the other players rated below him. Casserly rating Smith number 2 overall, aligns with exactly where Wes Bunting had Smith rated, in comparison to the other OTs in the 2010 draft.

Washington took Trent Williams at number 4. S.F. took Anthony Davis at number 11.

Casserly rated Gabe Carimi and Anthony Castonzo towards the bottom and projected both of them to the right side in the NFL.
WOW

That's surprising...and really impressive if true.

He did the same thing for QBs (over the last 4 drafts) last week.
It went like this:

Bradford
Ryan
Stafford
Gabbart
Sanchez
Flacco
Freeman

Notice no Newton in that group

[Deep_Freeze]

It sounds goofy, but it's the way NFL teams put boards together.

We had Lee in our Top 15 last year, obviously we wouldn't have taken him with the 15th pick in the draft if we had it, but teams don't create boards the same way we do on this forum.

What's funny is that his statements hurt a lot of feelings because some are in love with the kid, but if you actually watch the video he's talking about all the tackles. He says they are all getting pushed up because of the position they play and the lack of blue chip tackle talent.

Alot of truth in there. Just cause you love a kid, if any bad press comes out on him.....you don't have to attack the source or say its a smokescreen. There are good and bad things about every player in the draft. Just cause Tyron is 'the best OT' in this draft doesn't make him worthy of our pick....in that case we should take the best safety in the draft who isn't worthy of the pick.

Hopefully we can just get to the draft, cause really noone knows what we will do. Whatever makes sense to you, might not be what Jerry wants for his team. All you can do is sit back and enjoy the ride.

[InmanRoshi]

Why wouldn't the Bills take him at #3 for a LT if he is as good as so many think about him here?

Because they want to address one of worst defenses in the NFL or take a franchise QB?

[casmith07]

I don't think he's that overrated, but I do think #9 is a little high. Personally I think Dallas could trade with St. Louis at the 14 spot and still land Smith.

I don't, and I don't like playing that "too high game."

When is someone going to finally buck the stupid trend of "reaching" and just pick who you want when you want them. You play with fire and you get burned - MAX UNGER.

[Gaede]

I've been very critical of Smith, but I don't dislike the player. I don't think he is a can't miss prospect, as some seem to believe. But I wouldn't be upset at all if he were the pick.

However, pick a guy like Newton, Gabbert and any WR at number 9 and I'm gonna be pissed. CB, I can understand but would still be let down. This team needs help on the OL and DL in the worst way and the right players are there for the taking