Bellecheat screwed up

[burmafrd]

Solder is not going to be a really good one no matter how hard they work on him

[marchetta]

I've been saying that since Joel Buschbaum (sp?), draft god, died, BB's picks have sucked. When Joel was alive, BB would go over his draft chart with Joel the night before the draft, and make corrections based on Joel's recommendations. Heck, BB even offered Joel a job in his scouting department, but Joel declined. I'm fully convinced, that Tom Brady was a Buschbaum pick, and NOT a BB pick.

[AZ_Cowboys_Fan]

Solder is not going to be a really good one no matter how hard they work on him

agreed.... i was shocked at that pick. they passed on costanzo and jordan for him??? wow. just WOW.

[realtick]

I've been saying that since Joel Buschbaum (sp?), draft god, died, BB's picks have sucked. When Joel was alive, BB would go over his draft chart with Joel the night before the draft, and make corrections based on Joel's recommendations. Heck, BB even offered Joel a job in his scouting department, but Joel declined. I'm fully convinced, that Tom Brady was a Buschbaum pick, and NOT a BB pick.

Lol, really?

Wow, they grabbed Devin McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes, et cetera last year.:rolleyes:

[burmafrd]

The last four years of Pats picks have not been all that good. One good year out of four is pathetic.

[hornitosmonster]

Yes they did!! Love it!!

They will trade out for their next pick.

[realtick]

The last four years of Pats picks have not been all that good. One good year out of four is pathetic.

Let's see:

Patrick Chung
Sebastian Vollmer
Aaron Hernandez
Darius Butler
Brandon Tate
Julian Edelman
Jerod Mayo
Brandon Merriweather to name a few.

Also, if you factor in the had drafts where they didn't have a 1st round pick ('09), a draft ('07) where they had a 1st, 4th, 5th, four 6ths and two 7ths, it puts things into perspective.

[Chocolate Lab]

Lol, really?

Wow, they grabbed Devin McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes, et cetera last year.:rolleyes:

Message board posters >>> HOF coaches.

[newlander]

Message board posters >>> HOF coaches.

......these guys kill me.:lmao2: Although I AM surprised they missed out on Ingram....they could 'rue' the day on that one....:)

[speedkilz88]

Isn't Merriweather having problems?

[kristie]

Isn't Merriweather having problems?

i think he is.

[Cowboys22]

I have no idea if Solder with become a good player or not but I know this, if I was a pats fan, I would not be happy right now. With what they started with in terms of picks, to only be sitting there with Solder and a 1st next year from a potential super bowl team has to be disappointing.

[burmafrd]

How many of those guys are real difference makers? Fact is that with all these picks the Pats D is not what it was in the early 2000's. And they have holes on the O line that made them go for Solder. which was a mistake; should have taken Castanzo.

[morasp]

Solder is not going to be a really good one no matter how hard they work on him

The film they showed of Solder makes me feel better about Smith.

[InmanRoshi]

I know one Pats fan who will be livid they traded out of the Ingram pick for a future low 1st. They need play makers. They rely too heavily on Brady carrying that team in Dirk-esque fashin, just hitting a bunch of slot WRs and TEs down the middle seam. Brady in that Jets playoffs loss looked like he was starting to show his age a little bit.

[burmafrd]

Brady no longer has the fire in the belly he once had. You can see it. Peyton still does but Brady does not.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Let's see:

Patrick Chung
Sebastian Vollmer
Aaron Hernandez
Darius Butler
Brandon Tate
Julian Edelman
Jerod Mayo
Brandon Merriweather to name a few.

Also, if you factor in the had drafts where they didn't have a 1st round pick ('09), a draft ('07) where they had a 1st, 4th, 5th, four 6ths and two 7ths, it puts things into perspective.


Thats a lot of meh.


Tom Brady is like 33, how about you stop playing around and go get Julio Jones?

People keep saying they are the smartest team but having Peyton and Brady makes you look smarter than you really are. Those teams arent great but they contend b/c of the elite QB play.

[jobberone]

Solder has the potential to be as good as Smith. The Pats can afford the risk. Anyone who says the Pats can't draft are frankly out of their minds.

[Yakuza Rich]

Lol, really?

Wow, they grabbed Devin McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes, et cetera last year.:rolleyes:

Exactly.

And supposedly Coughlin wanted Solder bad.




YR

[HoustonFrog]

I've been saying that since Joel Buschbaum (sp?), draft god, died, BB's picks have sucked. When Joel was alive, BB would go over his draft chart with Joel the night before the draft, and make corrections based on Joel's recommendations. Heck, BB even offered Joel a job in his scouting department, but Joel declined. I'm fully convinced, that Tom Brady was a Buschbaum pick, and NOT a BB pick.

14-2 and they had good picks. Solder was once rated as a guy the Cowboys were looking for at 9. He moved back because he is a little more raw but the Pats do what they always do, reload with youth while their other guys are close to gone.

[burmafrd]

yeah and all this reloading has won them how many rings? They have not reloaded that defense very well, have they?

[Chief]

I watched a bunch of video of Solder yesterday. He's a real good athlete for a guy that size, but I saw him get detroyed against Cal. Gave up 3 sacks in the first half.

That pick really surprised me. I figured they would have taken Cameron Jordan or Mark Ingram.

[Sam I Am]

Solder is not going to be a really good one no matter how hard they work on him

The guy has issues sinking his hips combined with the fact that he is 6'8, bullrushers are going to blow him up left and right.

[HoustonFrog]

yeah and all this reloading has won them how many rings? They have not reloaded that defense very well, have they?

Alot of rings since Bill has been there. You are right. They are lucky to have been 14-2 last year and have one of the most stable franchises. What a bunch of jake-legs. You make no sense.

[big dog cowboy]

The guys on the ticket ripped him pretty good last night and were thankful the Cowboys stayed away.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Alot of rings since Bill has been there. You are right. They are lucky to have been 14-2 last year and have one of the most stable franchises. What a bunch of jake-legs. You make no sense.


They got lucky w/ Brady and cheated. Since then what have they done? Brady and Manning get you 10 wins automatically. The Patriots are not loaded and are burning Bradys prime w/ this cutsey bull****

Look what happened when they got a top 10 WR in Moss, Brady broke every record in the league. But nah, lets never get replace that weapon. Lets pretend Danny Woodhead is actually anything.

[visionary]

I watched a bunch of video of Solder yesterday. He's a real good athlete for a guy that size, but I saw him get detroyed against Cal. Gave up 3 sacks in the first half.

That pick really surprised me. I figured they would have taken Cameron Jordan or Mark Ingram.

my guess they thought (correctly) that all the better OTs will be gone by 28 while they can still get good defensive talent at 28 or early in 2

i think they made the right decision to go with OT at 17, now should they have gone with costanzo instead of solder? that is up to their scouts

[burmafrd]

Alot of rings since Bill has been there. You are right. They are lucky to have been 14-2 last year and have one of the most stable franchises. What a bunch of jake-legs. You make no sense.


Since 2004 how many rings has the Pats won?

[realtick]

Thats a lot of meh.


Tom Brady is like 33, how about you stop playing around and go get Julio Jones?

People keep saying they are the smartest team but having Peyton and Brady makes you look smarter than you really are. Those teams arent great but they contend b/c of the elite QB play.

Lol, most of the players would be starters here in Dallas. It's also funny to criticize the Patriots for not being smart, yet they do have Tom Brady, a pick of their own. They also drafted Matt Cassell who led them to an 11-5 record. They also win with no names at the receiver position and a midget at running back in Danny Woodhead.

It comical to criticize them when they are consistantly putting up 11-12 win seasons for the past decade.

[realtick]

They got lucky w/ Brady and cheated. Since then what have they done? Brady and Manning get you 10 wins automatically. The Patriots are not loaded and are burning Bradys prime w/ this cutsey bull****



Brilliant. How can anyone argue with that?

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Lol, most of the players would be starters here in Dallas. It's also funny to criticize the Patriots for not being smart, yet they do have Tom Brady, a pick of their own. They also drafted Matt Cassell who led them to an 11-5 record. They also win with no names at the receiver position and a midget at running back in Danny Woodhead.

It comical to criticize them when they are consistantly putting up 11-12 win seasons for the past decade.


They try to be the smartest guys in the room and it keeps coming back to bite them. No pass rush, no big play WR's? Lets get Solder and a 2012 pick. Tom Bradys reaction? Uhhh, I wont be playing forever guys.

Brilliant. How can anyone argue with that?


No one would. If they did Jake Locker would just go top 10 again :)

[HoustonFrog]

They try to be the smartest guys in the room and it keeps coming back to bite them. No pass rush, no big play WR's? Lets get Solder and a 2012 pick. Tom Bradys reaction? Uhhh, I wont be playing forever guys.




No one would. If they did Jake Locker would just go top 10 again :)

It's like you aren't paying attention. They did draft guy who were supposed to be good RBs and it didn't work. So they made it work with what they had and still went 14-2. That isn't all Brady. Until last year they consistently had one of the best Ds...underrated with top DBs and D-lienman. They then drafted LBs to take their place and are still filling in. The draft is a crapshoot yet somehow they are still relevant. You have no clue how Solder does in the system and now they have 3 2nd rounders with guys like Mike Leshoure sitting there...rated higher than Ingram by many. Let's see what they do. I have a hard time ripping a team that was winning SBs and still hits 11-12 wins a year. Again, that must be all luck, etc. Do it our way and wait another 16 years to matter..lol They won all their SBs with WRs that weren't big play guys so your statement holds no water.

[burmafrd]

Like I asked- when was their last championship? Much more recent then our own of course- but if they are so brilliant why have they not won another since?

[Arch Stanton]

Looks to me as if they drafted one of the two highest guys left on their board.

[realtick]

Like I asked- when was their last championship? Much more recent then our own of course- but if they are so brilliant why have they not won another since?

When was the last time the Steelers won a Super Bowl?

Is that franchise more "brilliant" because it's won a Super Bowl in more recent history?

Why don't we consider his resume since he took over the Patriots in 2000:

Four Super Bowls - 2007, 2004, 2003, 2001 (wins in bold)

Finished 1st place in his division 8 times since 2000 (including 4 championships)

Career record with the Patriots 116-45 (.720 winning %), postseason 15-4 (.789).


Meh, but he hasn't won a Super Bowl in four seasons, so he's really overrated.

Seriously, what were you saying in 1999, four years removed from watching the last Cowboys Super Bowl win and some bonehead fan says "meh, the Cowboys aren't that great....if they were, when was the last time they won a championship?" In doing so, they completely disregard the dominance of that dynasty through the most part of that decade and the brilliance from which they were put together.

[HoustonFrog]

When was the last time the Steelers won a Super Bowl?

Is that franchise more "brilliant" because it's won a Super Bowl in more recent history?

Why don't we consider his resume since he took over the Patriots in 2000:

Four Super Bowls - 2007, 2004, 2003, 2001 (wins in bold)

Finished 1st place in his division 8 times since 2000 (including 4 championships)

Career record with the Patriots 116-45 (.720 winning %), postseason 15-4 (.789).


Meh, but he hasn't won a Super Bowl in four seasons, so he's really overrated.

Seriously, what were you saying in 1999, four years removed from watching the last Cowboys Super Bowl win and some bonehead fan says "meh, the Cowboys aren't that great....if they were, when was the last time they won a championship?" In doing so, they completely disregard the dominance of that dynasty and the brilliance from which they were put together.

Thanks, you beat me to it. I guess brilliance only happens if you win it a record time in a decade and more than anyone in the history of the sport. Forgot about those stats you threw out.:rolleyes:

[DFWJC]

Lol, really?

Wow, they grabbed Devin McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes, et cetera last year.:rolleyes:
LOL

They had an awesome draft last year.

[jimnabby]

Like I asked- when was their last championship? Much more recent then our own of course- but if they are so brilliant why have they not won another since?Yup, all they've managed to do in the last six years is win their division five times, get to the conference championship game twice and the Super Bowl once. Oh yeah, and have a 16-0 year. They must be idiots.

And they finished only 14-2 this past season, a clear indictment of their drafting ability in the past few years.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Yup, all they've managed to do in the last six years is win their division five times, get to the conference championship game twice and the Super Bowl once. Oh yeah, and have a 16-0 year. They must be idiots.

And they finished only 14-2 this past season, a clear indictment of their drafting ability in the past few years.

And Peyton Manning keeps winning 10 plus games every year. Good QB's tend to do that

[jimnabby]

And Peyton Manning keeps winning 10 plus games every year. Good QB's tend to do thatThe Pats won 11 without Brady a couple years ago.

[HoustonFrog]

And Peyton Manning keeps winning 10 plus games every year. Good QB's tend to do that

You are actually making a better point for the Patriots as a whole. Cassell won 11 without Brady a couple years back. Manning has had Harrison, Wayne, Dallas Clark and a host of other talented WRs. They also have some guys that play pretty good D by rushing the passer and this has netted them 1 SB. The Pats have had no one at WR, except Moss, backup RBs and other issues yet as a whole they have done everything discussed here and beat above Colt offense in doing it most of the time. That isn't just Brady. That is their team concept. Brady is great but you can't have him being Dan Marino and putting up stats while everyone else sucks to have the sustained success they have had. Sorry.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

And the chiefs won a division w/ Matt Cassell.......

[realtick]

And Peyton Manning keeps winning 10 plus games every year. Good QB's tend to do that

Then Troy Aikman freakin' sucked, because as I remember it, the Cowboys didn't win much of anything after '96.

Logic shot... thanks for playing. :D

[HoustonFrog]

And the chiefs won a division w/ Matt Cassell.......

Yes, a guy the Patriots drafted in the 7th round and groomed. You are looking silly.

[realtick]

What's funny is for some this is really just a "I hate the Patriots" agenda that is underlying the entire thinking going on here.

Right now, all the credit is being lumped onto Tom Brady's shoulders. Ironically, you can bet your bottom dollar that if this was a thread about Brady's greatness, some of these same posters would then revert to saying that Brady was just a product of the system.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I was livid someone gave a MVP vote to Favre in Bradys epic season. That was amazing. Half his games people were pissed they were running up the score. Against pros in the 3rd quarter!

They definitely were running up the score in some of those, but that really is amazing dominance.

Whats my point? The Pats get too cute, now they arent winning Super Bowls anymore when in fact, they probably should be b/c their QB is so good. Dez, Clay, Julio Jones....put 1 or all of them on the Pats and they probably are winning Super Bowls again.

[InmanRoshi]

They can pride themselves on being "kings of the draft" to console themselves on not winning a playoff game in the last 3 seasons. Also, their defense finished 26th in the NFL in yards allowed last year. If they were really drafting all these All Pros, couldn't they do better than that?

As pointed out above, Brady will be 34 by the time the season starts. And unlike Manning, who rarely gets hit much less sacked, that's been a hard 34. He's been beaten up and injured pretty badly by the end of the year in the last two seasons. I think the Patriots got a 2 year window to win another Superbowl (it's been 7 seasons since they won their last one in 2004) with Brady, and then it's game on. They had all this ammo at this disposal for this amazing draft where they could have a last hurrah Superbowl run in the Brady era and they had a lot of needs ...a big play WR, a dynamic RB, someone to provide some pass rush to their defense. And they come away with .... a project left tackle?

I respect what Belichick has done in the past, but he does really give off the impression that he's bought into all the hype that he's so much smarter than everyone else in the NFL, and he's gotten way too cute for his own good IMHO.

[realtick]

They can pride themselves on being "kings of the draft" to console themselves on not winning a playoff game in the last 3 seasons. Also, their defense finished 26th in the NFL in yards allowed last year. If they were really drafting all these All Pros, couldn't they do better than that?


Lol, yet despite all these supposed draft failings they've found themselves in the playoffs the past three seasons and 8 of the last 10.

But, "why can't they do better?" :facepalm:

The curtain falls on every dynasty, there is an ebb and flow to it. It's hilarious that Cowboy fans question the Patriots greatness when our team has won just one playoff game in what, 15 years?


I swear no truer analogy fits: some people can't see the forest through the trees.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Lol, yet despite all these supposed draft failings they've found themselves in the playoffs the past three seasons and 8 of the last 10.

But, "why can't they do better?" :facepalm:

The curtain falls on every dynasty, there is an ebb and flow to it. It's hilarious that Cowboy fans question the Patriots greatness when our team has won just one playoff game in what, 15 years?


I swear no truer analogy fits: some people can't see the forest through the trees.

Youre missing the point. They are pushing back all these prime picks and by the time they cash them in it will be pointless b/c they will be on the hunt for a new QB.

Hey, congrats on stock piling picks, Im definitely jealous I love the 2nd round. But the time is now, you have the 2nd best player in the league and he wont be around forever. He was cool enough to take a pay cut you can do good by him and get players now. Not for when its time to replace him

11 wins, 12 wins, 11 wins.....all great. You should be doing that w/ Brady! Again, look at the Colts. The cupboard is getting bare but they are still a factor in the AFC.

[MichaelWinicki]

I think the New England franchise is terrific. Certainly one of the best.

I don't think the drafting has been good or bad... Somewhere in between. Yes, I do think they drafted better the early part of the decade.

Make no mistake, but New England has greatly benefitted from the division they play in. You put them in the NFC East and they wouldn't have anywhere near as good a winning percentage over the last 10 years. They've greatly benefitted from the ineptitude of the other franchises that make up that division.

[realtick]

I think the New England franchise is terrific. Certainly one of the best.

I don't think the drafting has been good or bad... Somewhere in between. Yes, I do think they drafted better the early part of the decade.

Make no mistake, but New England has greatly benefitted from the division they play in. You put them in the NFC East and they wouldn't have anywhere near as good a winning percentage over the last 10 years. They've greatly benefitted from the ineptitude of the other franchises that make up that division.

I don't know if that's really a fair criticism for a couple of reasons.

1) Saying "well, if they were in the NFC East...." is a hypothetical.

2) Of recent history, the NY Jets have been one of the league's best teams and they are in the same division.

3) Regardless of any division's perceived strengths or weaknesses, we do know that 7 of the last 10 Super Bowl winners this past decade were from the AFC. In other words, New England has still had to run into the Ravens, Steelers, Colts and Jets on the way to the Super Bowl.

[btcutter]

Has anyone considered that New England with all the 1st and 2nd rounds pick maybe able to maneuver up to take Andrew Luck or the next franchise QB in the next few years?

That may not be a bad move.

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't know if that's really a fair criticism for a couple of reasons.

1) Saying "well, if they were in the NFC East...." is a hypothetical.

2) Of recent history, the NY Jets have been one of the league's best teams and they are in the same division.

3) Regardless of any division's perceived strengths or weaknesses, we do know that 7 of the last 10 Super Bowl winners this past decade were from the AFC. In other words, New England has still had to run into the Ravens, Steelers, Colts and Jets on the way to the Super Bowl.

I don't think anyone could realistically argue that the Pats haven't benefited from a soft division. A weak division offers a nice road to the home field in the playoffs.

The Jets have been 6 games over .500 over the past 11 seasons. That's better than average... But not "one of the league's best teams".

No matter how you slice it, getting 6 games a year vs Miami, Buffalo and the Jets is an advantage.

[InmanRoshi]

Has anyone considered that New England with all the 1st and 2nd rounds pick maybe able to maneuver up to take Andrew Luck or the next franchise QB in the next few years?

That may not be a bad move.

It may not be a bad move in theory, but I doubt any GM has the brass ones to be forever known as the guy who traded away the rights to Andrew Luck when they could have had him for themselves. Any team drafting in the #1 spot typically is coming off a season where they had awful QB play and finished 2-14.

[realtick]

I don't think anyone could realistically argue that the Pats haven't benefited from a soft division. A weak division offers a nice road to the home field in the playoffs.

The Jets have been 6 games over .500 over the past 11 seasons. That's better than average... But not "one of the league's best teams".

No matter how you slice it, getting 6 games a year vs Miami, Buffalo and the Jets is an advantage.

Right, and these same Jets have been to the AFC championship game the past two seasons.

You can parse regular season records all you want. What do those teams do when they play the best of the best in the playoffs.

Regardless, what you do in the regular season doesn't really matter as long as you get to the show (the playoffs). What you do from from that point is what seperates the wheat from the chaff.

How do you wanna slice it? The Patriots record with Belichek is 116-45 (.720) and 15-4 in the postseason (.789).

Playing in a "weak" division doesn't make you win the playoffs.

[MichaelWinicki]

Right, and these same Jets have been to the AFC championship game the past two seasons.

You can parse regular season records all you want. What do those teams do when they play the best of the best in the playoffs.

Regardless, what you do in the regular season doesn't really matter as long as you get to the show (the playoffs). What you do from from that point is what seperates the wheat from the chaff.

How do you wanna slice it? The Patriots record with Belichek is 116-45 (.720) and 15-4 in the postseason (.789).

Playing in a "weak" division doesn't make you win the playoffs.

Hey, gaining home field throughout the playoffs by "fattening" on a weak division works.

[hornitosmonster]

Hey, gaining home field throughout the playoffs by "fattening" on a weak division works.

Exactly. The recent success for the Jets makes all the years before that much more miserable. The Pats have benefited from having the Jets, Miami, and Buffalo in their division. I will go as far to say that there is no 16-0 season playing in the NFC East. FYI, the Giants got them the 2nd time out...