Larry Lacewell former cowboys director of scouting, back to directing? Is Switzer Sco

[cowboyjoe]

First, let me say that I am disturbed over the cowboys drafting murray. I could be wrong about this, but parcells got rid of lacewell. As soon as parcells left, jerry jones got lacewell back into cowboys organizaton. Now, we heard from jerry's own lips yesterday that Lacewell was one of the best talent scouts for linebackers ever and on his advice we chose Carter.

I do think Carter will be a good linebacker when fully healthy. My question to you zoners is this. What in the heck is going on in our scouting department. Read some of these clips about Lacewell how he ruined some of our drafts after jimmy johnson left.

News > Cowboys remove Larry Lacewell from his position as director of pro and college scouting.

JAIME ARON

Associated Press


IRVING, Texas - Although Larry Lacewell is about to turn 68 and has been planning to retire for months, the departure of the Dallas Cowboys' scouting director can be considered the first of many changes for the team this offseason.

And it could be another sign of the power base in the organization shifting to coach Bill Parcells.

Lacewell announced his retirement Thursday, ending a 13-season stay that spanned from the final two years of coach Jimmy Johnson to the first two under Parcells.

Aside from personnel decisions, Lacewell's impact on the club stemmed from his close relationship to owner Jerry Jones. A fellow Arkansas native, Lacewell was a trusted adviser to Jones in areas well beyond evaluating talent. He'll remain a part-time adviser, but his absence from team headquarters likely means more influence for Parcells.

http://www.cowboycards.com/Articles/Lacewell.asp

Lacewell, Scouting Director For Past 12 Seasons Calling It Quits (Dallas Cowboys.com)

After finishing 6-10 last season, changes were undoubtedly expected for the Cowboys this off-season. The first big change will start in the scouting department, where longtime Director of College and Pro scouting Larry Lacewell will retire from the position. Lacewell, a longtime friend of Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones, came to the Cowboys in 1992 and has overseen the last 11 drafts here at Valley Ranch. The Cowboys have yet to announce a replacement, although this move was expected in the organization. Lacewell, who turns 68 in February, sold his house in Dallas last spring and recently bought some property in Hot Springs, Ark.

But a change in leadership might be good, considering some of the recent draft history for the Cowboys. This past year, the Cowboys saw little overall production from their eight draft picks. While Julius Jones, the club’s top pick, did return from a shoulder injury to finish the season strong, rushing for 819 yards in eight games, the Cowboys didn’t get anything out of their next three picks. Second-round offensive tackle Jacob Rogers only played sparingly on special teams and never on offense, while third-round guard Stephen Peterman suffered a torn ACL in preseason and missed the entire season. Fourth-round pick Bruce Thornton was inactive for the first three games before suffering a torn ACL in his first game of the season.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/dallas_cowboys_scouting_director_larry_lacewell_re tires/

Last I knew it, Tom Ciwoskwi was our Director of Scouting and doing a pretty good job when cowboys listened to him. Not like when scouts told wade no, and wade said, I think i can make Jason Williams fit our scheme. We all know how that turned out. Was Larry Lacewell in on that jason wiilliams pick bending jerry jones ear. Same thing with robert brewster, when we kept trading down. Is that little book that Jerry Jones has in december, is that book some of Larry Lacewell's work and not so much our own scouting departments, but bending of the ear from lacewell to jerry jones?

Next, we have the comments from Jerry Jones on RB Murray that Coach Barrry Switzer is one of the best talent judges etc in pro football business, so with his praises of Murray we took the RB from Oklahoma who is injury prone.

So, actually zoners who is running the draft, and who has more influence talking in jerry jones ears to pick these players? I am not questioning the Carter pick, I think we all know if he didnt get injured he would have been a top 15 to 20 pick in first round, but still sounds like former scouting directors and former head coaches like switzer are bending jerry jones ears and he is listening to them instead of our own scouting department.

would someone please explain this to me. Are the Dallas Cowboys and inside cowboys organization so blind to our running game, there was no place for our running backs to run inside due to our inept OGs etc... How can you draft a rb that has been injury prone in his career, to not taking an elite OG like will rackley or a NT like Kendrick Ellis etc... The rbs cant run if there is no holes to run through.


Here are some videos of press conference and where jerry jones is talking about switzer and larry lacewell i think.
http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=A3FAE0A6-BCB4-0DAA-23AF26B07CA9BE8F

http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=A45863E6-0277-35C6-9D653AB13FB5EA6C

http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=A4058263-FF75-0777-36913012D98F25AC


I understand part of thinking behind murray, they want to push barber or choice and felix and have a downhill runner while getting a special teams player, but murray hasnt returned punts since high school i think no sure about kickoffs. And at best I see murray as a 3rd down situation back, i just think you could have gotten better on offensive line with a will rackley OG/OT or kendrick ellis at NT/DE, gotten a full time starter by midseason maybe. Just frustrated now.

Please someone explain this to me!

[jblaze2004]

ewwwwwwww i hope not

but i like the bruce carter and murray picks. Jerry should just trust his scouts.

[dmq]

Many of the bad decisions over the years were because Jerry didn't go w/ what the scouts advised. Also, the decisions like the Galloway trade have huge impacts on the following drafts. All I need to say is Quincy Carter.

[big dog cowboy]

What in the heck is going on in our scouting department.

Please someone explain this to me!

We have resources and we are using them.

And the Murray pick? MBIII and Choice are both gone. We needed a RB. He is a good one. Those carries Barber got last year? Murray would have done better without question.

[speedkilz88]

I like Rackley, but elite G? It was the 3rd round!

[Dash28]

I like Rackley, but elite G? It was the 3rd round!
I wanted Rackley too.

This is the problem with fans, their pet cats get passed on and they get pissed and claim our scouts are awful and the player in their place is a failure.

[cowboyjoe]

I wanted Rackley too.

This is the problem with fans, their pet cats get passed on and they get pissed and claim our scouts are awful and the player in their place is a failure.

Again, your missing my question, why have switzer and lacewell involved in any of this? Do you remember past drafts with Lacewell after jimmy johnson left, they were terrible. Then, how was switzer's track record when he was head coach of the cowboys and sounding on draft picks and players, again, pretty terrible. Then, how can murray run, when there are no holes to run through, what i am seeing, murray will get beat up even more, then barber or felix. WE NEEDED AN OG BIG TIME IN THIS DRAFT! EVEN HOS HAS SAID SO TOO! I wouldnt have objected, if cowboys traded up, got rackley or some other good OG, that was left on the board, then traded back up if need be and draft murray. I understand cowboys are going to let barber go, and wanted to push felix jones, which he needs to be pushed. But we needed an OG. Let me ask you this question.

Reports are cowboys are just going to offer Kosier 2 millioin or so. Kosier will leave for more money. Then, who do you have at OG, Holland, how comfortablle do you feel with him? Next, you saw cowboys bench Bigg too slow Davis one game for playing poorly last year. How do you still feel about him at OG?

See my point now? :starspin

[Chief]

Apparently, Jerry finds Larry Lacewell frickin irresistable.

You make a good point, though, Joe. Coaches and GMs talk to their friends and sources all the time about players, but Jerry seems a little more extreme on this. Barry and Larry are not only former employees, but they're his drinking buddies. He misses them.

I think sometimes he welcomes too many voices in his ear, when it should be mainly Ciskowski and his staff.

[Hostile]

I can't stand Switzer or Lacewell. But I can't and won't deny that they guys know how to look at a football player and give you their opinion. They've been doing it for decades.

Note...we did NOT ask them to look at a group of LBs and tell us which guy, or a group of RBs and tell us which guy. They were asked to specifically break down these two guys.

I don't see a problem with that.

[SDogo]

I don't see a problem with that.

You won't like I can't because our sole agenda is not to blame Jerry for everything from the state of the Dallas Cowboys to the Earthquakes in Japan.

[rags747]

Lacewell and Switzer are not on the payroll Joe. I saw Jerry say what u r refering to. Jerry uses Lacewell and Switzer as sounding boards...heck they probably go back 40+ years or so. All Jerry was doing was getting additional information on Murray and if Garrett is psyched about the pick then so am I.

[speedkilz88]

If Jerry had let Lacewell or Switzer put together the draft board then I would have a problem. Their opinion, not so much.

[craig71]

Joe, I think you are trying a little too hard on this one and are seeing something that is not necessarily there. I think Jerry consulted with Lacewell on Carter, I think Lacewell most likely confirmed what Butch Davis said about the kid to be honest. I think the same could be said of Jerry talking to Switzer about the Murray kid. Basically, I think Switzer and Lacewell just echoed the sentiments of the scouting department/college staff on those particular players. I see nothing wrong with bringing in an outside consultant or two in that situation.


Craig

[burmafrd]

Switzer is not a bad evaluator of talent. He spots some things pretty well. Now lacewell- I would use him this way: what ever he says to do go the opposite way.

[cowboyjoe]

thanks guys, makes me feel alittle better, granted switzer should know talent when he sees it, but i cant help feel switzer was alittle biased about oklahoma rb, since switzer coached there.

Just what was scary to me, was like chief said, jerry jones getting his ear bent to much by lacewell and switzer. That part if any stuff to it, is scary to me. Especially Lacewell, since he ruined our team with draft picks.

I think i know after i broke down film alittle more of Murray, Jason plans to use him on reserves, catches out of the backfield, return punts or kickoffs and turn a game around like chiefs Dexter McCluster.

i think Jason wants to use Murray like chiefs used McCluster last year. But we still need a big mauling OG to open up holes, they just werent there last year running inside :cool:

[ReturnToGlory]

At least one thing Lacewell was good at was picking LB in rounds 2 and 3.
Godfrey
Coakley
Nguyen
James ?

[Alexander]

The inclusion of Switzer and especially Lacewell in our thought process is easily the most disturbing element to this weekend thus far.

I fail to see how their opinions would be any more correct now they have been away from the game for years. They were once wrong consistently and they were right in the thick of things.

[Chief]

And regarding Switzer's running back expertise, two words:

Sherman Williams

[cowboyjoe]

I can't stand Switzer or Lacewell. But I can't and won't deny that they guys know how to look at a football player and give you their opinion. They've been doing it for decades.

Note...we did NOT ask them to look at a group of LBs and tell us which guy, or a group of RBs and tell us which guy. They were asked to specifically break down these two guys.

I don't see a problem with that.
Note, I posted videos, info on murray, and cowboys press conf calls to carter and murray in cowboys draft 2011 section.
Understand it alittle better now, but didnt you say Hos, that we have problems inside at OG, and we needed someone like Will Rackley first. Wouldnt it have made more sense to try and take Rackley first, then trade back up and get Murray. Then at least you had an OG that was young and could open holes running inside.

You have heard that possibly cowboys are just going to offer Kosier 2 million or so, and he will walk for that. Then who do we have at OGs, Holland and Bigg too slow to block quick DTs Davis? Feel safe with that Hos?

But i feel better about the explanation of where Lacewell and Switzer came in. Just was scary to me, if jerry jones ear was being bent by those 2 more than our own scouts.

And I think Jason Garrett after I went and broke down film of Murray that Jason Garrett plans to get Murray out in space somewhat and use him like the chiefs used McCluster last year, that won some games for them with his elite speed. :cool:

[CATCH17]

We have resources and we are using them.

And the Murray pick? MBIII and Choice are both gone. We needed a RB. He is a good one. Those carries Barber got last year? Murray would have done better without question.

Why is Choice gone again?

[Hostile]

Note, I posted videos, info on murray, and cowboys press conf calls to carter and murray in cowboys draft 2011 section.
Understand it alittle better now, but didnt you say Hos, that we have problems inside at OG, and we needed someone like Will Rackley first. Wouldnt it have made more sense to try and take Rackley first, then trade back up and get Murray. Then at least you had an OG that was young and could open holes running inside.

You have heard that possibly cowboys are just going to offer Kosier 2 million or so, and he will walk for that. Then who do we have at OGs, Holland and Bigg too slow to block quick DTs Davis? Feel safe with that Hos?

But i feel better about the explanation of where Lacewell and Switzer came in. Just was scary to me, if jerry jones ear was being bent by those 2 more than our own scouts.

And I think Jason Garrett after I went and broke down film of Murray that Jason Garrett plans to get Murray out in space somewhat and use him like the chiefs used McCluster last year, that won some games for them with his elite speed. :cool:I've already said I wanted Rackley in the 3rd. I was not aware I needed to repeat it ad nauseum in every single thread.

[speedkilz88]

And regarding Switzer's running back expertise, two words:

Sherman WilliamsTwo more, coke head.

[cowboyjoe]

And regarding Switzer's running back expertise, two words:

Sherman Williams

yeah, i meant to post that in the article i posted, was going to go back and show draft picks switzer, and lacewell did together, but I forgot, but i remember us getting sherman williams,
thanks for adding that chief

94 draft with switzer, jerry and lacewell
1. shante carver, bust
2, larry allen all pro suggested by houck i think
3 george hegamin, another robert brewster type player maybe bust, so who made this choice Lacewell in jerry ear in 2009?
4. willie jackson, bust too

95 draft, note just posting first 4 picks
2 sherman williams, traded our first rounder to tampa bay, whose decision?
2 kendall watkins, helped us some till he got hurt and fat
2 shane hannah, another bust at OG, Lacewell's decision?
3 charlie williams, another special teams player, bust
4 eric bjornson average player
4 alundis brice bust
4. linc harden bust

96 draft
2 kavika pittman bust
2 randall godfrey average player somewhat
3. clay shiver bust
3 stepfret williams bust
3 mikeulufale bust


Need I go on? Lacewell stunk to me! And switzer sure was a genius at evaluating talent with the scouts wasnt he?

[arglebargle]

yeah, i meant to post that in the article i posted, was going to go back and show draft picks switzer, and lacewell did together, but I forgot, but i remember us getting sherman williams,
thanks for adding that chief

94 draft with switzer, jerry and lacewell
1. shante carver, bust
2, larry allen all pro suggested by houck i think
3 george hegamin, another robert brewster type player maybe bust, so who made this choice Lacewell in jerry ear in 2009?
4. willie jackson, bust too

95 draft, note just posting first 4 picks
2 sherman williams, traded our first rounder to tampa bay, whose decision?
2 kendall watkins, helped us some till he got hurt and fat
2 shane hannah, another bust at OG, Lacewell's decision?
3 charlie williams, another special teams player, bust
4 eric bjornson average player
4 alundis brice bust
4. linc harden bust

96 draft
2 kavika pittman bust
2 randall godfrey average player somewhat
3. clay shiver bust
3 stepfret williams bust
3 mikeulufale bust


Need I go on? Lacewell stunk to me! And switzer sure was a genius at evaluating talent with the scouts wasnt he?

Go take a look at Saint Jimmy's Miami drafts for comparison. And notice how many of Parcells' pet cats and evaluation decisions have become jaw clenching remembrances.

When the top ten of the draft is still close to a 50% success rate, you are going to have a lot of blanks fired.

[rags747]

Lacewell and Switzer are football men for many a decade. Nothing wrong with getting feedback from them and Switzer was and is a damn good talent evaluator.

[Chief]

94 draft with switzer, jerry and lacewell
1. shante carver, bust
2, larry allen all pro suggested by houck i think3 george hegamin, another robert brewster type player maybe bust, so who made this choice Lacewell in jerry ear in 2009?
4. willie jackson, bust too


Just FYI for everyone. Houck really liked and wanted Allen, but it was Tom Ciskowski who scouted him and got him on Houck's radar. The two of them lobbied hard for him.

[cbow44]

To me this sounds like a Jerry pick. Ciwoskwi and Garrett were against it, so Jerry had to go to his yes men. Why else would it bring them up in his press conference.

[Chief]

Lacewell and Switzer are football men for many a decade. Nothing wrong with getting feedback from them and Switzer was and is a damn good talent evaluator.

Don't confuse being a good talent evaluator with being a good recruiter. I think that's where Switzer excelled.

[cowboyjoe]

Go take a look at Saint Jimmy's Miami drafts for comparison. And notice how many of Parcells' pet cats and evaluation decisions have become jaw clenching remembrances.

When the top ten of the draft is still close to a 50% success rate, you are going to have a lot of blanks fired.

One thing your forgetting about jimmy's draft in miami and you have to keep in mind when drafting, if you draft lower than 17th or so in each round, your sunk. You need to trade up and get those impact type players. Jimmy was baically picking in bottom of each round,

Remember how cowboys got elite in mid 70s?
1. too tall jones
1 randy white
1 tony dorsett

90s
1 troy aikman
1 emmitt smith
1. russell maryland
1 alvin harper
1. kevin smith
adding number 1 pick deion sanders in 95 through free agency

Now, how many high impact players do other teams fear on this team, and are good high number one picks now
1. demarcus ware
1. dez bryant
1. tyron smith, who i think will be good in time

to me you have to have those impact type players, adding in other players like jason witten, tony romo, miles austin,

did felix jones really do anything last year like chris johnson has? How about Jenkins at CB, no he got the big head after his 2009 season and didnt think he needed to work as hard and it showed

You have to have impact players that teams fear, granted we lucked out with dez,but if dez had played and not gotten suspended his last year in college, we wouldnt have been able to get him,but we got an impact player

we probably got another impact player in bruce carter, just like most likely in time sean lee will be elite with instincts, but you have to have the blue chip players like an aikman, emmitt smith, thats why if player cowboys were trying to trade back up in 1st round friday night, and that player i think was ingram till NE through a monkey wrench in our plans and sold out to the saints

you have to have impact players blue chip players along with other players like a charles haley, darren woodson, erik williams, leon lett, etc.. but you must when you can get impact player blue chips to turn the corner

[cowboyjoe]

Just FYI for everyone. Houck really liked and wanted Allen, but it was Tom Ciskowski who scouted him and got him on Houck's radar. The two of them lobbied hard for him.

cool :bow: thanks for info chief, i wasnt sure about that, but i knew someone had found larry allen, i myself sent in info on larry allen to the cowboys that year with item saying a man among boys at offensive line

[viman96]

I read a quote by Murray where he says he missed 4 games in his career and they were at the beginning. Is he really injury prone or are people just remembering the games he missed?

[CATCH17]

Two more, coke head.

So he was definetely a Switzer kind of player.