View Full Version : Why exactly did Derrick Rose win the NBA MVP this year?
The30YardSlant
05-19-2011, 01:57 PM
This has been bugging me for a while and I just can't figure it out. He is possibly the worst statistical MVP of all-time.
He is the first MVP in league history to not rank in the top 5 in the league in scoring, assists or rebounding. Rose finished 7th in scoring, 10th in assists, 90th in rebounding, 52nd in steals and a dismal 82nd in FG %. He averaged 3.4 turnovers per game, fourth worst in the league among starting guards and 8th worst overall. He had a 2.24 Assist/TO ratio, the worst ever for a guard who won the award.
I really just don't get it. Looking at the numbers and factoring in team success, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Nowitzki and Howard were all better choices. Stoudemire was better statistical choice but his team wasnt that good.
TheCount
05-19-2011, 02:25 PM
He rode the hype train, that's what.
Howard should have won it, but D Rose is a very good player.
All that being said, the award stands for Most Valuable Player, so it should go to the player that is most valuable to their team, not just who has the best stats.
danielofthesaints
05-19-2011, 02:37 PM
Derrick Rose is extremely overrated. The guy can't hit a jumper or a 3 to save his life. His game consists of driving to the basket and either a) making a layup b) dishing it out to other horrible shooters on the bulls c) drawing a foul.
Thats it. He is one dimensional.
The30YardSlant
05-19-2011, 02:41 PM
He rode the hype train, that's what.
Howard should have won it, but D Rose is a very good player.
All that being said, the award stands for Most Valuable Player, so it should go to the player that is most valuable to their team, not just who has the best stats.
The magic would be awful without Howard. Same goes for the Mavericks without Nowitzki. The Thunder would be a low playoff seed at best without Durant.
MC KAos
05-19-2011, 03:30 PM
he is the only decent offensive player on the best team in the league! how does he not deserve it? i didnt see anyone complaining about it after he dropped 44 on the hawks or after game 1. He is most likely going to dominate game 3
The30YardSlant
05-19-2011, 03:41 PM
he is the only decent offensive player on the best team in the league! how does he not deserve it? i didnt see anyone complaining about it after he dropped 44 on the hawks or after game 1. He is most likely going to dominate game 3
But see, you can't just say "He's the best offensive player on the ebst team" and leave it at that. The fact is he is the weakest statistical MVP ever and is a volume shooter playing point guard.
MC KAos
05-19-2011, 04:07 PM
ill give you that he is a volume shooter, but so was AI and kobe early on in his career. they dont have a second option on offense, more like a 2.5 option in boozer. He isnt a Dwill/CP3 type point guard, he is more like a Multi Billionaires Tony Parker. In the biggest games of the year for the bulls, he stepped up (the last 2 games vs the celtics and heat, and vs the spurs in chicago.) dwight howard is more important to his team and probably a better player, but thats not really what the MVP is all about, otherwise MJ would have won it 10 times. It matters that he is the best player on the best team, it matters that he is the only viable offensive weapon, and his stats are very impressive considering A) the way the bulls play defense slows down the game, i doubt they get as many possesions as the thunder for instance and B) he is the main focus of for the other teams on defense. Dont forget that the next 2 best players on the team missed a lot of games during the season.
peplaw06
05-19-2011, 04:07 PM
Derrick Rose is extremely overrated. The guy can't hit a jumper or a 3 to save his life. His game consists of driving to the basket and either a) making a layup b) dishing it out to other horrible shooters on the bulls c) drawing a foul.
Thats it. He is one dimensional.:laugh2:
You just listed three dimensions.
Typical overreaction when a player has a bad game.I honestly don't think you would have made this thread if the Bulls had won game 2.
(sorry if I seem harsh, but I had to point it out)
BigWillie
05-19-2011, 06:37 PM
Retarded thread is insanely retarded.
Rose is no worse a mid-range, or even long range shooter as LeBron, Wade or many others. Statistics back this up as well. He also takes just a few percentage points less in FGA at the rim than those same guys
Even more, last season, Rose was actually the best shooting PG in FG% from mid-range in the entire NBA.
Does Rose enjoy going to the rim utilizing his speed and athleticism in that regard? Yes. Until folks prove they can stop him from getting into the lane and finishing consistently, then why should he stop from having that be a huge portion of his game?
It would be like asking Dwight Howard or a prime Shaq to stop using their athleticism and strength to get themselves easy dunks or layups. They need to broaden their game because they are so one-dimensional!
:laugh2:
danielofthesaints
05-19-2011, 07:06 PM
:laugh2:
You just listed three dimensions.
No I didnt. I listed three outcomes of his one dimensional game (which is driving to the basket). :facepalm:
Give that trophy to Dirk, you thief!
casmith07
05-19-2011, 08:19 PM
Dwight Howard should have won MVP this year. Straight up dumb rebounding numbers this season.
But someone above me said it best - media hype train.
casmith07
05-19-2011, 08:20 PM
The magic would be awful without Howard. Same goes for the Mavericks without Nowitzki. The Thunder would be a low playoff seed at best without Durant.
OKC would not make the playoffs without Durant.
Muhast
05-19-2011, 08:22 PM
It just seems like the bulls whole lineup makes no effort to hit shots outside of korver and boozer. Everyone including d rose just try to draw fouls. They arent pretty to watch
mldardy
05-19-2011, 09:15 PM
D Rose won because he was the best player on the best team and is the best point guard in the league. And for the person that said Dwight Howard put the crackpipe down. Orlando got worse this season and Howard still has no post moves whatsoever.
Muhast
05-19-2011, 09:24 PM
D Rose won because he was the best player on the best team and is the best point guard in the league. And for the person that said Dwight Howard put the crackpipe down. Orlando got worse this season and Howard still has no post moves whatsoever.
I'm sure you could take a poll of the large majority of NBA fans on who is the best PG in the NBA and you will hear as many people say Chris Paul as D.Rose.
Not only that, Skip Bayless,Rob Parker and a few other ESPN people made a valid point that you can make a pretty solid argument that D.Rose wasn't even one of the NBA's top 10 players.
mldardy
05-19-2011, 10:49 PM
I'm sure you could take a poll of the large majority of NBA fans on who is the best PG in the NBA and you will hear as many people say Chris Paul as D.Rose.
Not only that, Skip Bayless,Rob Parker and a few other ESPN people made a valid point that you can make a pretty solid argument that D.Rose wasn't even one of the NBA's top 10 players.
Not this year, Paul arguably wasn't even the 2nd best point guard this season. That probably was Westbrook or Rondo.
Quoting Rob Parker and especially Skip Bayless and any other person on ESPN should get this:
:lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2::lmao2:
You know better than to do that. D. Rose is definitely a top 10 player what games were you watching this season to think he isn't. D Rose was head and shoulders above all point guards this season.
MarionBarberThe4th
05-19-2011, 11:53 PM
The award sometimes goes to the best stories.
Kidd almost won it in his first year w/ the Nets then his next year he was way better statistically and wasnt close.
Nash getting a bunch in a row was suspicious as well
I dont get how they got MVP, COY and split Exec of the year. Which is it? Their execs traded Hinrich for nothing, signed Korver and Carlos Boozer to big deals.
Dwight would have been the lowest seed to win it in a long time but he might have got my vote. If you were picking players off that team who would you really want? Bass and Ryan Anderson
The30YardSlant
05-20-2011, 12:29 AM
Typical overreaction when a player has a bad game.I honestly don't think you would have made this thread if the Bulls had won game 2.
(sorry if I seem harsh, but I had to point it out)
Uh, the MVP is a regular season award and I used regular season stats to support my post. Nothing he does at any point in these playoffs effects the MVP race.
The30YardSlant
05-20-2011, 12:31 AM
The award sometimes goes to the best stories.
Kidd almost won it in his first year w/ the Nets then his next year he was way better statistically and wasnt close.
Nash getting a bunch in a row was suspicious as well
I dont get how they got MVP, COY and split Exec of the year. Which is it? Their execs traded Hinrich for nothing, signed Korver and Carlos Boozer to big deals.
Dwight would have been the lowest seed to win it in a long time but he might have got my vote. If you were picking players off that team who would you really want? Bass and Ryan Anderson
The difference between Rose and nash is obvious. Nash led the league in assists both years by a mile, shot a ridiculous FG and 3 point % and accounted via score or assist for something like 65% of his team's points ever night
MarionBarberThe4th
05-20-2011, 12:52 AM
The difference between Rose and nash is obvious. Nash led the league in assists both years by a mile, shot a ridiculous FG and 3 point % and accounted via score or assist for something like 65% of his team's points ever night
Eh. Their pace was crazy. 7 seconds or less and no defense.
I like Nash and think hes still top 5 at his position(Think the Celtics should have traded Rondo for him 2 years ago. They would have won it all last year) but he was the medias darling and I dont see him as a 2-time MVP player historically.
I believe I had Shaq winning it over him one year and I forget who could have gotten it the other year. Kobe maybe.
Of their awards I think Thibs earned COY more then the others. Their D is amazing.
I also forget to mention they drafted Asik this year so that does give more credence to their execs. That guy plays awesome team defense and is a year away from getting a full MLE from Cuban
Uh, the MVP is a regular season award and I used regular season stats to support my post. Nothing he does at any point in these playoffs effects the MVP race.
yeah i see your point; but the fact that this thread was brought up after a bulls loss helped me draw that conclusion.
maybe i'm wrong...but thats what i thought and i felt like sharing.
on a side note: whoever mentioned Skip Bayless really just had me :lmao: for a good 60 seconds
peplaw06
05-20-2011, 06:16 AM
No I didnt. I listed three outcomes of his one dimensional game (which is driving to the basket). :facepalm::laugh2:
You're being ridiculous. That's what point guards do. They try to create opportunities for themselves and their teammates. The penetrating point guard is probably the hardest thing in the game to defend.
A shot is a dimension of the game, a pass/assist is a dimension of the game, and getting to the line is a dimension of the game.
And you could have leveled that kind of criticism at Rose his first two years, when he made 16 three-pointers in each of those seasons, shooting 22% and 27%. But this year he made 128 threes... an 800% increase, Shooting 33%.
Sorry, he's not one-dimensional.
Quick Answer: His play in the clutch all season has been fantastic, he makes crazy athletic plays that almost no one else is even able to make, and he unfairly got credit for the Bulls being the best defensive team in the league (when he's probably their worst defensive starter).
Sam I Am
05-20-2011, 10:16 AM
:laugh2:
You're being ridiculous. That's what point guards do. They try to create opportunities for themselves and their teammates. The penetrating point guard is probably the hardest thing in the game to defend.
A shot is a dimension of the game, a pass/assist is a dimension of the game, and getting to the line is a dimension of the game.
And you could have leveled that kind of criticism at Rose his first two years, when he made 16 three-pointers in each of those seasons, shooting 22% and 27%. But this year he made 128 threes... an 800% increase, Shooting 33%.
Sorry, he's not one-dimensional.
He is three-dimensional. :muttley:
Quick Answer: His play in the clutch all season has been fantastic, he makes crazy athletic plays that almost no one else is even able to make, and he unfairly got credit for the Bulls being the best defensive team in the league (when he's probably their worst defensive starter).
I think worst goes to Korver. Rose's defenses isn't elite, but he can certainly stick with whoever hes guarding and do a better job than they will do on him.
Vintage
05-21-2011, 11:14 AM
I think worst goes to Korver. Rose's defenses isn't elite, but he can certainly stick with whoever hes guarding and do a better job than they will do on him.
Korver doesn't start.
And Boozer is by far the worst defensive starter on the team.
EMMITTnROY
05-21-2011, 01:31 PM
It was media hype, plain and simple. He had a good year, but not an MVP year. He plays for Chicago, and that helps. But yeah, basically, he was the best OFFENSIVE player on the team that finished with the NBA's best record. The funny thing is, Chicago won because of its defense. And if you look at the numbers, Rose was arguably Chicago's worst defensive player. They actually play better on defense when he's on the bench. It'd be like giving MVP to Jamal Lewis the year that the Ravens won the Super Bowl or giving the MVP to Walter Payton the year the Bears won the Super Bowl--- best offensive players on teams that won because of their defense.
mldardy
05-21-2011, 02:31 PM
It was media hype, plain and simple. He had a good year, but not an MVP year. He plays for Chicago, and that helps. But yeah, basically, he was the best OFFENSIVE player on the team that finished with the NBA's best record. The funny thing is, Chicago won because of its defense. And if you look at the numbers, Rose was arguably Chicago's worst defensive player. They actually play better on defense when he's on the bench. It'd be like giving MVP to Jamal Lewis the year that the Ravens won the Super Bowl or giving the MVP to Walter Payton the year the Bears won the Super Bowl--- best offensive players on teams that won because of their defense.
I don't get this at all, media hype? Did you look at what kind of year he had this season. And tell us who should have won if Rose shouldn't. You spent way too much with lame reasons why he shouldn't have won(Jamal Lewis:confused:) instead of who deserved it over Rose. Generally the MVP in the NBA goes to the best player on one of the top 2-3 teams in the league. The last time a player from a team that didn't finish with a top 3 record in the NBA was Michael Jordan in 87-88. Unless you have some ungodly year like MJ did that year you aren't going to win on a team that didn't have a top 3 record in the league. The top 3 teams this season were: Chicago, San Antonio and Miami. The only player besides Rose on those 3 teams that is an MVP candidate was Lebron and he wasn't winning it because he had already won the previous two years and had better numbers and on better teams(record wise) those previous two years. Rose deserved it I don't see what is so hard to understand about this.
BraveHeartFan
05-21-2011, 04:21 PM
OKC would not make the playoffs without Durant.
Couldn't agree more.
That's my team (Being that I'm from a town a mere hour south of where they play ball and I get to watch them on TV all the time. :) ) and there is no way that team makes the playoffs without Durant.
D Rose won because he was the best player on the best team and is the best point guard in the league. And for the person that said Dwight Howard put the crackpipe down. Orlando got worse this season and Howard still has no post moves whatsoever.
Ehhh...I think Paul would have something to say about that PG comment. I'm not bagging on Rose, I think he's a darn good player, but I don't know that I wouldn't take Paul over him.
And as for the question of why...eh probably a combination of everything that's been mentioned in here, with a heavy dose of the media hype.
mldardy
05-22-2011, 12:16 AM
Couldn't agree more.
That's my team (Being that I'm from a town a mere hour south of where they play ball and I get to watch them on TV all the time. :) ) and there is no way that team makes the playoffs without Durant.
Ehhh...I think Paul would have something to say about that PG comment. I'm not bagging on Rose, I think he's a darn good player, but I don't know that I wouldn't take Paul over him.
And as for the question of why...eh probably a combination of everything that's been mentioned in here, with a heavy dose of the media hype.
Ehh I already pointed out that Paul didn't have that great of a year. Westbrook and Rondo arguably had better years than Paul and NO ONE at the point guard position had a better year than Rose. Paul is good definitely a top 5 point guard but he doesn't have the ability Rose does to take over a game. Rose did a lot this season.
BraveHeartFan
05-23-2011, 03:34 PM
Ehh I already pointed out that Paul didn't have that great of a year. Westbrook and Rondo arguably had better years than Paul and NO ONE at the point guard position had a better year than Rose. Paul is good definitely a top 5 point guard but he doesn't have the ability Rose does to take over a game. Rose did a lot this season.
I'm not saying he didn't or wasn't. I'm just saying that Chris Paul, this year or not, would still probably have something to say about who the better player is.
I'm not going by just one year. Would I take Rose? Sure. Would I take Paul? Sure.
I was just pointing out that there is at least one point guard, and you made the point about a couple others, who might just believe they're better. :)
The30YardSlant
05-24-2011, 10:31 PM
Yikes, Rose is having a nightmare series against the Heat
MC KAos
05-24-2011, 11:20 PM
yes, this series just goes to show how crap the rest of his team is and how much he deserves the MVP. it sucks that besides himself and deng no one on the team is good at both offense AND defense.
RoyTheHammer
05-25-2011, 02:45 PM
Just saw this thread, but its pretty simple guys.
Rose was more valuable to his team than any other player in the league. That's why he won MVP.
Any other questions just let me know. ;)
baj1dallas
05-25-2011, 03:01 PM
Rose deserved it I don't see what is so hard to understand about this.
It's because statistically, he wasn't one of the top 5 players in the league. Without Rose, the Bulls would still have been top 5 in their conference. Whereas Dirk, Durant, and Howard were all way more valuable to their team. MVP shouldn't have to come from the top 3 playoff seeds, and team that finishes top 4 in their conference should be considered.
The30YardSlant
05-25-2011, 03:06 PM
Just saw this thread, but its pretty simple guys.
Rose was more valuable to his team than any other player in the league. That's why he won MVP.
Any other questions just let me know. ;)
But see, I don't agree with this. How can you prove he was the most valuable to his team? It could EASILY be argued that Howard, Dirk and Durant are all just as if not more valuable to their respective teams than Rose, AND all three had more impressive stats.
Honestly, I think Howard is far and away the most valuable player in the league. Without him, the Magic would probably be the worst team in basketball.
MC KAos
05-25-2011, 03:13 PM
the MVP isnt about who has the best stats, who the best player in the league is, or even who is more valuable to his team.
The MVP is about winning, who leads his team to victory most often, and there is no denying Rose was that for his team this year. You never see MVPs coming from crappy teams or rarely do you see them coming from teams with 2 equally good players (like kobe/shaq or dwade/lebron). I could understand howard winning it if say, the spurs had been the only team close to sixty wins, but the spurs and bulls were far and above the best teams in the regular season, and no one on the spurs deserved it. Derrick Rose was the only true choice for MVP, and the playoffs dont matter in that discussion.
The30YardSlant
05-25-2011, 03:18 PM
the MVP isnt about who has the best stats, who the best player in the league is, or even who is more valuable to his team.
The MVP is about winning, who leads his team to victory most often, and there is no denying Rose was that for his team this year. You never see MVPs coming from crappy teams or rarely do you see them coming from teams with 2 equally good players (like kobe/shaq or dwade/lebron). I could understand howard winning it if say, the spurs had been the only team close to sixty wins, but the spurs and bulls were far and above the best teams in the regular season, and no one on the spurs deserved it. Derrick Rose was the only true choice for MVP, and the playoffs dont matter in that discussion.
Again, how is Rose any more valuable than Howard?
Jordan was only the most valuable player to his team for one of his six MVP years. Without him, the Bulls starring Pippen still won 57 games and made the ECF. That didnt stop the voters from voting for him over and over. The award goes to the best player on one of the three best teams, regardless of merit.
MC KAos
05-25-2011, 03:23 PM
Again, how is Rose any more valuable than Howard?
because his team won 10 more games than howards, it doesnt matter why but they did and he was by far the best player on that team.
i know you will say the magic's trades, but thats beside the fact, the MVP is not about doing the best with a bad situation, thats why MVPs always thank their teammates, they cant win those awards alone.
The30YardSlant
05-25-2011, 03:26 PM
because his team won 10 more games than howards, it doesnt matter why but they did and he was by far the best player on that team.
i know you will say the magic's trades, but thats beside the fact, the MVP is not about doing the best with a bad situation, thats why MVPs always thank their teammates, they cant win those awards alone.
But Howard's team would be worse without him than the Bulls would be without Rose.
MC KAos
05-25-2011, 03:29 PM
Jordan was only the most valuable player to his team for one of his six MVP years. Without him, the Bulls starring Pippen still won 57 games and made the ECF. That didnt stop the voters from voting for him over and over. The award goes to the best player on one of the three best teams, regardless of merit.
and that kind of proves my point, the team was still good without him, but it was atop the standings at the end of the year and they had a great player, so he got the MVP. If the mavs had won 61 games instead of the spurs, Dirk would have been up these with rose for the MVP.
its something that comes up very often in MVP discussions but you can see its been consistent, duncan had one of the best records in the league in 02 and 03, garnett in 04, nash in 05 and 06, dirk in 07, kobe in 08, lebron in 09 and 10 and rose this year.
i think the real question is how they award the MVP, its a fair argument to make to say it should go to situations like Howards. But the way it has always been presented, Rose was the MVP and deservedly so
MC KAos
05-25-2011, 03:30 PM
But Howard's team would be worse without him than the Bulls would be without Rose.
true, but again, thats not what the MVP award is about
Stautner
05-25-2011, 03:33 PM
The thing is he is a phenomenal talent - when he is moving downcourt or to the basket it seems everyone else is in slow motion. The "WOW" factor is big with him, but unfortunately the "WOW" factor often overshadows the reality of what is going on. The guy that grabs your attention is often assumed to be the best even if the facts don't support it.
BraveHeartFan
05-25-2011, 04:03 PM
Well MVP or not he's definately not been real good in this series. I know he has nothing to work with, and I get that, but he's been just downright bad.
RoyTheHammer
05-25-2011, 09:46 PM
No player is more important to the success of their team than Rose, imo. If you took away all the players who were in the running for MVP from their respective teams, i don't believe any team would be worse than the Bulls.
MC KAos
05-25-2011, 10:14 PM
No player is more important to the success of their team than Rose, imo. If you took away all the players who were in the running for MVP from their respective teams, i don't believe any team would be worse than the Bulls.
I think the magic would lose more games, but the bulls would lose the most wins from their total this year, if that makes sense. I don't know where the bulls would find offense from
baj1dallas
05-26-2011, 02:32 AM
No player is more important to the success of their team than Rose, imo. If you took away all the players who were in the running for MVP from their respective teams, i don't believe any team would be worse than the Bulls.
The Mavs lost like 7 straight when Dirk went out.
MonsterD
05-26-2011, 02:54 AM
Steve Nash won it, Rose is more fit than him. Also why is it the guy who carries the team the most? I think it should be just the best player in the NBA.
Stautner
05-26-2011, 09:48 AM
Steve Nash won it, Rose is more fit than him. Also why is it the guy who carries the team the most? I think it should be just the best player in the NBA.
Why is Rose more fit than Nash?
Yeagermeister
05-26-2011, 10:23 AM
Rudy Gay should have been the MVP......just look where the Griz were without him......errr ummm nevermind :laugh1:
The30YardSlant
05-26-2011, 11:17 AM
Rudy Gay should have been the MVP......just look where the Griz were without him......errr ummm nevermind :laugh1:
Calling it now, Memphis/OKC will be the top 2 seeds in the West next year
MC KAos
05-26-2011, 02:43 PM
Calling it now, Memphis/OKC will be the top 2 seeds in the West next year
i dont know about seeds, but i do expect them in the WCF if they are both healthy
Yeagermeister
05-26-2011, 02:54 PM
i dont know about seeds, but i do expect them in the WCF if they are both healthy
Only if we can add a shooter or two
Sam I Am
05-26-2011, 02:55 PM
Only if we can add a shooter or two
You can't have Dirk. :muttley:
The30YardSlant
05-26-2011, 03:15 PM
Only if we can add a shooter or two
With Gay and Henry, you guys might have won the West THIS season
MC KAos
05-26-2011, 05:01 PM
Only if we can add a shooter or two
With Gay and Henry, you guys might have won the West THIS season
i was gonna say, i think adding rudy gay is gonna be monstrous!
but, or that to happen you guys gotta keep gasol
http://i55.tinypic.com/106edki.jpg
The30YardSlant
05-26-2011, 10:27 PM
Wow, that was an epic combination of Heat clutch/Bulls choke/Ref help at the end of that game
MC KAos
05-26-2011, 10:43 PM
You can't really excuse this on bulls youth, only Derrick rose is under 24 years of age they have lots of veterans that needed to step up
mldardy
05-26-2011, 11:32 PM
You can't really excuse this on bulls youth, only Derrick rose is under 24 years of age they have lots of veterans that needed to step up
Yeah like Boozer.
Cowboys&LakersFan
05-27-2011, 10:06 AM
He deserved MVP. No he didn't play great in the playoffs, but the poor kid has no one to pass to.
MC KAos
05-27-2011, 10:08 AM
now that the bulls/heat series is over, i hope this thread dies soon
BraveHeartFan
05-27-2011, 06:32 PM
He certainly did nothing in this series to make people believe he deserved that MVP, that's for certain.
Muhast
05-27-2011, 06:46 PM
He certainly did nothing in this series to make people believe he deserved that MVP, that's for certain.
His execution of the offense in the last few minutes wasn't exactly pretty to watch.
He did have a really nice move where he scored late in the 4th but the last play of the game he and Korver almost collided and neither got a decent look.
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