ESPN NFCE: Most important concession players want: Shortening the offseason program

[WoodysGirl]

Skins' Armstrong coaching youth soccer (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer)

May, 19, 2011 May 19
10:41
AM ET

Email (http://sendtofriend.espn.go.com/sendtofriend/SendToFriend?URL=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer&title=Skins\'%20Armstrong%20coaching%20youth%20soc cer)
Print (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/print?id=26866)
Comments (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer#comments)35 (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer#comments)By Dan Graziano

In my conversations with NFL players over the past couple of months, I've consistently heard them talk about how nice it is to have some time to do things they don't normally get to do this time of year -- hang out with their kids, do some charity work, coach soccer, whatever. And while I assume the itch will set in before long, these kinds of stories serve to make a critical point on the players' behalf.

When and if the time comes to actually talk about settling the labor mess, one of the most important concessions the players want from the owners is a shortening of the offseason program.

This is a point around which negotiation can happen. Once the lockout is over and a new CBA is in place, you can expect to see shorter offseason programs and specific rules in place that govern what teams and coaches can and cannot require of the players during spring and summer workouts.

Read the rest: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer

[tupperware]

In other words more pay for less work. Sounds about right.

[67CowboysFan]

In other words more pay for less work. Sounds about right.
I want more pay for less work and if you lock me out: NFL players are suffering "irreparable harm" because of the lack of off season programs and free-agent signing period, according to a legal briefing filed Monday by plaintiffs attempted to lift the league's lockout.

I've finally figured it out. The players ride the short bus. ;)

[Chocolate Lab]

I want more pay for less work and if you lock me out: NFL players are suffering "irreparable harm" because of the lack of off season programs and free-agent signing period, according to a legal briefing filed Monday by plaintiffs attempted to lift the league's lockout.

I've finally figured it out. The players ride the short bus. ;)

Yeah, this is pretty funny considering the brief they just filed.

But I've been meaning to post something on this for a while now. I remember reading back when they were still negotiation that the players reportedly not only wanted more time off, but likely some kind of restrictions on how physical at least some practices can be. And with the way the actual games are being called to make it less physical all the time, I can see it happening.

So would this mean we can never run the ball again? ;)

[dfense]

Skins' Armstrong coaching youth soccer (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer)

May, 19, 2011 May 19
10:41
AM ET

Email (http://sendtofriend.espn.go.com/sendtofriend/SendToFriend?URL=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer&title=Skins\'%20Armstrong%20coaching%20youth%20soc cer)
Print (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/print?id=26866)
Comments (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer#comments)35 (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer#comments)By Dan Graziano

In my conversations with NFL players over the past couple of months, I've consistently heard them talk about how nice it is to have some time to do things they don't normally get to do this time of year -- hang out with their kids, do some charity work, coach soccer, whatever. And while I assume the itch will set in before long, these kinds of stories serve to make a critical point on the players' behalf.

When and if the time comes to actually talk about settling the labor mess, one of the most important concessions the players want from the owners is a shortening of the offseason program.

This is a point around which negotiation can happen. Once the lockout is over and a new CBA is in place, you can expect to see shorter offseason programs and specific rules in place that govern what teams and coaches can and cannot require of the players during spring and summer workouts.

Read the rest: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/26866/redskins-armstrong-coaching-youth-soccer So February, March, April, May isn't enough time off for multi millionaires. Nice.

[Hostile]

They are complaining about not being able to train and negotiating to have fewer training sessions?

Or am I missing the point?

[dogberry]

June is a good time for soccer tournaments.

[gimmesix]

The players are short-sighted on this, which is no surprise.

The offseason training that they do is a benefit to the physical job they are asked to perform. Less offseason work will result in more injuries.

I can understand them wanting to cut down on hitting in the preseason and practices, but more time off gives them less time to get in shape, leaving them more susceptible to injury during the long (for them) season.

[EPL0c0]

The only people that get about as much time off as football players is teachers, and they 're not getting paid millions for their work. Quit the whining,

If players want a shorter off-season fine, but it should come with more strings attached to performance and ability to learn the playbook

[MarionBarberThe4th]

If that helps get a deal done go for it. Who cares?

[dogberry]

I guest someone has done a full year breakdown of how much time is spent by a player with NFL activities, running, lifting, playbook, practice, games....

[AbeBeta]

The only people that get about as much time off as football players is teachers, and they 're not getting paid millions for their work. Quit the whining,

If players want a shorter off-season fine, but it should come with more strings attached to performance and ability to learn the playbook

What a completely ignorant post. Educators at all levels spend 100s of hours of time in unpaid activities. The reason why salaries are so low for many of these professions is that they are typically only paid for a 9 or 10 month contract. Despite that, there are countless hours of time spent preparing materials for class, professional development activities, and other tasks ... all done on time "off."

[AbeBeta]

I guest someone has done a full year breakdown of how much time is spent by a player with NFL activities, running, lifting, playbook, practice, games....

I expect that you'd see about 20-25 weeks of 70-80 hour work weeks

[CCBoy]

They are complaining about not being able to train and negotiating to have fewer training sessions?

Or am I missing the point?

Yea, both hit target unless one is an onsite and pro-player lawyer. Or one of the posters just carrying an agenda.:)

[CCBoy]

I expect that you'd see about 20-25 weeks of 70-80 hour work weeks

Try that but in the oil field and with NO breaks and minimum wage.

[CCBoy]

What a completely ignorant post. Educators at all levels spend 100s of hours of time in unpaid activities. The reason why salaries are so low for many of these professions is that they are typically only paid for a 9 or 10 month contract. Despite that, there are countless hours of time spent preparing materials for class, professional development activities, and other tasks ... all done on time "off."

Hooooah!:starspin

[Doomsday]

What a completely ignorant post. Educators at all levels spend 100s of hours of time in unpaid activities. The reason why salaries are so low for many of these professions is that they are typically only paid for a 9 or 10 month contract. Despite that, there are countless hours of time spent preparing materials for class, professional development activities, and other tasks ... all done on time "off."

The average school year in the US is 180 days, compared to the average full time employee who works 250 days a year. Yes teachers work non school days but no where near 70 days a year. Most salaried workers put in 100s of hours a year over and above the 40 hour work week without extra pay, it comes with the territory.

[burmafrd]

Now if I remember correctly all these OTA's and the like started in the last 20 years. I seriously question the need for all of them. Now one could say that because of the Cap and FA that teams do not stay together as long and therefore need all the sessions they can get, but still I do question the need for them like we are supposed to have now.

[burmafrd]

The average school year in the US is 180 days, compared to the average full time employee who works 250 days a year. Yes teachers work non school days but no where near 70 days a year. Most salaried workers put in 100s of hours a year over and above the 40 hour work week without extra pay, it comes with the territory.

You would be hard put to find any profession that does not have its workers doing a fair amount of something off the clock.

[fortdick]

The average school year in the US is 180 days, compared to the average full time employee who works 250 days a year. Yes teachers work non school days but no where near 70 days a year. Most salaried workers put in 100s of hours a year over and above the 40 hour work week without extra pay, it comes with the territory.

It's called "trying to get ahead." Some people never heard of it.

[CCBoy]

The average school year in the US is 180 days, compared to the average full time employee who works 250 days a year. Yes teachers work non school days but no where near 70 days a year. Most salaried workers put in 100s of hours a year over and above the 40 hour work week without extra pay, it comes with the territory.

Dang Doomsday, we are talking about wharehouse storage areas muliplied several times for players, and Union positions of teachers, or similar gross salaried positions, et al...that consider top shelf storage for 'extras' in their life.

I really don't consider a chioce between a chalupa or carne guisada as reaching a value right along prime steak and fillet mignon.

[CCBoy]

You would be hard put to find any profession that does not have its workers doing a fair amount of something off the clock.

Being funny here, but...THE POST OFFICE! Now don't go postal on me. ON the floor means ON the clock. Overtime hits an overtime desired list and filing for makeup considerations also if bypassed for opportunity. Good 'ol Unions. Where lack of work is rewarded with additional privilege, first.

[CooterBrown]

"What do 'voluntary' mean?"

On this point, I'm with the players. Teams should not be allowed to schedule, "voluntary" workouts at the team facilities. Simply because, even though they are called "voluntary" we all know the players, especially the marginal or "bubble" players are under a lot of pressure to be there. It isn't voluntary if your absence will be used against you.

[CCBoy]

"What do 'voluntary' mean?"

On this point, I'm with the players. Teams should not be allowed to schedule, "voluntary" workouts at the team facilities. Simply because, even though they are called "voluntary" we all know the players, especially the marginal or "bubble" players are under a lot of pressure to be there. It isn't voluntary if your absence will be used against you.

Mornin' Cooter...and I watched, with wife, a Charity B-Ball game with Cowboy players last night in Corpus Christi. You would have enjoyed it tremendously. They included little kids in the game. And the first few who took the line on free throws for Cowboy players, sank three in a row....and what was probably a tiny four year old girl, was lifted up for a dunk. The opening game tip off was with a local newscaster, named Katia. She must have been all of five foot, two inches in stature. She was hilarious on the court as players attempted to allow her a way about the court. Double dribbling and shooting against all odds. She finally made a bucket as well. It was 'precious.' And kept the entire stands in stitches. You would have enjoyed.

[Hagman]

The average school year in the US is 180 days, compared to the average full time employee who works 250 days a year. Yes teachers work non school days but no where near 70 days a year. Most salaried workers put in 100s of hours a year over and above the 40 hour work week without extra pay, it comes with the territory.

You know the old saying: The three main reasons to go into education are June, July and August.

[CCBoy]

You know the old saying: The three main reasons to go into education are June, July and August.

Good morning, Hagman, is it you who does the publication reviews?

[LandryFan]

What a completely ignorant post. Educators at all levels spend 100s of hours of time in unpaid activities. The reason why salaries are so low for many of these professions is that they are typically only paid for a 9 or 10 month contract. Despite that, there are countless hours of time spent preparing materials for class, professional development activities, and other tasks ... all done on time "off."
You beat me to it, Abe. My wife and I both teach, and it sure isn't because the pay is good. If it weren't for my military retirement, I couldn't afford to teach. Many hours of work are performed for no pay, and a good chunk of that pay is spent on the kids, classroom, etc. A beginning teacher where I teach starts at about $32K/yr and works 10 contract months. Not exactly NFL wages.

[LandryFan]

The average school year in the US is 180 days, compared to the average full time employee who works 250 days a year. Yes teachers work non school days but no where near 70 days a year. Most salaried workers put in 100s of hours a year over and above the 40 hour work week without extra pay, it comes with the territory.
Most salaried workers make more than $32K/year, too, when it comes to that territory. Our kids have 186 class days (37 weeks). There are many hours spent on classroom prep, training, meetings, grading papers in the evening, and on and on.

[CCBoy]

You beat me to it, Abe. My wife and I both teach, and it sure isn't because the pay is good. If it weren't for my military retirement, I couldn't afford to teach. Many hours of work are performed for no pay, and a good chunk of that pay is spent on the kids, classroom, etc. A beginning teacher where I teach starts at about $32K/yr and works 10 contract months. Not exactly NFL wages.

:) You forgot to include the 'great' Union support that you receive.

[LandryFan]

:) You forgot to include the 'great' Union support that you receive.
Thanks for the reminder, CC! ;) Actually, the teachers here aren't really "unionized". They pay union dues (I refuse to), but get nothing but an insurance policy against lawsuits for their dues. I would actually advise any young person against going into the education field, because the state and federal requirements have become so ludicrous that it's getting to the point that one is almost paying to be a teacher. Most teachers don't go into the field with pay as their main motivator, but still... I'm older, with another source of income, so I can afford to teach. I greatly enjoy working with my kids, that's my pay.

[theogt]

I want more pay for less work and if you lock me out: NFL players are suffering "irreparable harm" because of the lack of off season programs and free-agent signing period, according to a legal briefing filed Monday by plaintiffs attempted to lift the league's lockout.

I've finally figured it out. The players ride the short bus. ;)The argument for irreparable harm isn't that they're just missing a month or two of practice. It's that they'd miss all of OTAs, mini-camps, training camp, an opportunity to make a roster, and a full season of opportunities to crack a starting spot (or even a backup position), all of these lost opportunities being withheld over potentially multiple seasons.

If the owners said, "Okay, we're going to lock you out for 2 months, then return to business as usual," the players wouldn't be suing to enjoin the lockout.

Nothing inconsistent about that.

[CCBoy]

The argument for irreparable harm isn't that they're just missing a month or two of practice. It's that they'd miss all of OTAs, mini-camps, training camp, an opportunity to make a roster, and a full season of opportunities to crack a starting spot (or even a backup position), all of these lost opportunities being withheld over potentially multiple seasons.

If the owners said, "Okay, we're going to lock you out for 2 months, then return to business as usual," the players wouldn't be suing to enjoin the lockout.

Nothing inconsistent about that.

And, if they would agree to a new CBA there would be no apprehensions as years would already be on a contract. And a battle on the legality of the actuality of decertification and labor issues running on clock simultaneously would be mute.

[PullMyFinger]

What a completely ignorant post. Educators at all levels spend 100s of hours of time in unpaid activities. The reason why salaries are so low for many of these professions is that they are typically only paid for a 9 or 10 month contract. Despite that, there are countless hours of time spent preparing materials for class, professional development activities, and other tasks ... all done on time "off."


Um, I think thats what hes trying to say.

[Doomsday]

Most salaried workers make more than $32K/year, too, when it comes to that territory. Our kids have 186 class days (37 weeks). There are many hours spent on classroom prep, training, meetings, grading papers in the evening, and on and on.

$32k is starting salary, the average teacher salary is $40k to $55k a year depending on the state. That is a pretty good wage considering it includes lower grade levels which pay less and is not a year round job. Not to mention that is for public schools, better teachers can earn quite a bit more in private schools. I commend teachers for what they do, but the notion that they are starving is a bit funny to me.

Any way back on point dont want to get nailed for politics. It is in the players best interest to work out in the off season and most "voluntary" work out programs are like what 1 to 2 hours a few times a week? I think it is good for the franchises as well as the players.

[xwalker]

They should tie offseason requirements to years of service.

Players with 3 years and less should practice and workout as much or more than players have in the past offseasons. Players with over 3 years of service should have minimal on-field work the offseason and 1 or 2 weeks less training camp than the young players.

I would like to watch a week or two of training camp with the young players. They might need to have a joint training camp with another team to have enough players to practice against each other.

Also, the NFL could limit the number of snaps that a veteran plays during pre-season games. Do older players really need more than 2 pre-season games?

[CCBoy]

They should tie offseason requirements to years of service.

Players with 3 years and less should practice and workout as much or more than players have in the past offseasons. Players with over 3 years of service should have minimal on-field work the offseason and 1 or 2 weeks less training camp than the young players.

I would like to watch a week or two of training camp with the young players. They might need to have a joint training camp with another team to have enough players to practice against each other.

Also, the NFL could limit the number of snaps that a veteran plays during pre-season games. Do older players really need more than 2 pre-season games?

Hey, it's workable...and applies work where needed as well.

[CCBoy]

$32k is starting salary, the average teacher salary is $40k to $55k a year depending on the state. That is a pretty good wage considering it includes lower grade levels which pay less and is not a year round job. Not to mention that is for public schools, better teachers can earn quite a bit more in private schools. I commend teachers for what they do, but the notion that they are starving is a bit funny to me.

Any way back on point dont want to get nailed for politics. It is in the players best interest to work out in the off season and most "voluntary" work out programs are like what 1 to 2 hours a few times a week? I think it is good for the franchises as well as the players.

Nailgunners are usually employed by someone not interested in actual topic discussion and dream of heading a mob of tar and featherers.;)

[67CowboysFan]

The argument for irreparable harm isn't that they're just missing a month or two of practice. It's that they'd miss all of OTAs, mini-camps, training camp, an opportunity to make a roster, and a full season of opportunities to crack a starting spot (or even a backup position), all of these lost opportunities being withheld over potentially multiple seasons.

If the owners said, "Okay, we're going to lock you out for 2 months, then return to business as usual," the players wouldn't be suing to enjoin the lockout.

Nothing inconsistent about that.
Except the players didn't get locked out until they walked out of negotiations and decertified.

[theogt]

Except the players didn't get locked out until they walked out of negotiations and decertified.I guess the argument here being that if someone does something illegal in retaliation for someone else's legal action, it's okay.

[AbeBeta]

The average school year in the US is 180 days, compared to the average full time employee who works 250 days a year. Yes teachers work non school days but no where near 70 days a year. Most salaried workers put in 100s of hours a year over and above the 40 hour work week without extra pay, it comes with the territory.

And they are paid only for a 9 or 10 month year rather than an entire 12 months. The two months off take the salary wayyyyy down. That isn't paid vacation. And your claim that "most" salaried workers do extra work is not really justified -- certainly many do, but most? Come on now.

[AbeBeta]

$32k is starting salary, the average teacher salary is $40k to $55k a year depending on the state. That is a pretty good wage considering it includes lower grade levels which pay less and is not a year round job. Not to mention that is for public schools, better teachers can earn quite a bit more in private schools. I commend teachers for what they do, but the notion that they are starving is a bit funny to me.


Compare that salary to other positions where you need at minimum a college degree and in most states certification (i.e., an extra year or two of post BA/BS coursework).

[Hostile]

The argument for irreparable harm isn't that they're just missing a month or two of practice. It's that they'd miss all of OTAs, mini-camps, training camp, an opportunity to make a roster, and a full season of opportunities to crack a starting spot (or even a backup position), all of these lost opportunities being withheld over potentially multiple seasons.

If the owners said, "Okay, we're going to lock you out for 2 months, then return to business as usual," the players wouldn't be suing to enjoin the lockout.

Nothing inconsistent about that.Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Tom Brady are in jeopardy of losing their starting spots on their teams?

[burmafrd]

It was really stupid of the NFLPA to have Brady and company doing the lawsuits. They should have picked someone that is fighting to stay on the roster year to year. Several of them.

[theogt]

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Tom Brady are in jeopardy of losing their starting spots on their teams?Nope.

It was really stupid of the NFLPA to have Brady and company doing the lawsuits. They should have picked someone that is fighting to stay on the roster year to year. Several of them.The lawsuit represents all players, not just Brady and the other named plaintiffs. Who is named is largely irrelevant.

[burmafrd]

Nope.

The lawsuit represents all players, not just Brady and the other named plaintiffs. Who is named is largely irrelevant.



Wrong. PR is part of this battle and that was a huge PR mistake. Having the most highly paid players crying irreparable harm is just plain dumb.

[WoodysGirl]

I'm looking for the quote from Jerry, but one of the reasons why this shortening the offseason is on the table is because the owners (Jerry) believes that offseason practices and the like shouldn't be negotiated as part of the CBA, but left up to the coaches.

Because as was pointed out in the article, while the OTAs are voluntary, heaven forbid a player misses them. So if it's structured as a mandatory thing, then players have to show up vs the passive-aggressive method done by coaches and other players to get the non-participants to show up.

[jobberone]

Wrong. PR is part of this battle and that was a huge PR mistake. Having the most highly paid players crying irreparable harm is just plain dumb.

You have a small point. It is overwhelmingly overshadowed by the larger issues like no football.

[WoodysGirl]

Jerry's quote re: practices


Jones said. "But that’s an example [of some of the proposals we don't like]... Of how we practice, some of the things we do in practices, some of the requirements we have of the veteran players – I think when you start looking at things in those areas, the team concept, we would be better served if that is dictated by the coaches and dictated by their needs to put the best team on the field as opposed to something that is a labor proposal."

Clarence Hill




Read more: http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/cowboys/2011/05/jerry-jones-owners-wont-budge-on-players-proposals-about-disbanding-the-draft-among-other-things-1.html

[AbeBeta]

Because as was pointed out in the article, while the OTAs are voluntary, heaven forbid a player misses them. So if it's structured as a mandatory thing, then players have to show up vs the passive-aggressive method done by coaches and other players to get the non-participants to show up.

Unless you are Roy Williams (31). Then you can schedule a cruise during them and the coaching staff will say it is OK.

[WoodysGirl]

Unless you are Roy Williams (31). Then you can schedule a cruise during them and the coaching staff will say it is OK.
And still get all the same backlach he would've gotten had he held out for a new contract.

While missing voluntary OTAs doesn't bother me, it's expected for them to be there...which makes the whole voluntary thing bull..

Make it mandatory and put it in the CBA...

[AbeBeta]

And still get all the same backlach he would've gotten had he held out for a new contract.

While missing voluntary OTAs doesn't bother me, it's expected for them to be there...which makes the whole voluntary thing bull..

Make it mandatory and put it in the CBA...

Sure -- you make these mandatory and then what do you get ... other "voluntary" activities taking their place. The fact is that whatever you do, you will have teams pushing the boundaries b/c they want the edge in both keeping tabs on their players and teaching them complex systems.

Roy got "backlash?" There were a ton of folks on this board jumping to his defense back then.

[67CowboysFan]

I guess the argument here being that if someone does something illegal in retaliation for someone else's legal action, it's okay.
What's legal and illegal in this case has already been decided?

[Doomsday]

And they are paid only for a 9 or 10 month year rather than an entire 12 months. The two months off take the salary wayyyyy down. That isn't paid vacation. And your claim that "most" salaried workers do extra work is not really justified -- certainly many do, but most? Come on now.

The average salaried American worker puts in 50 hours a week. That seems to support the assumption that "most" do extra work. About 10 hours extra a week on average.

[WoodysGirl]

Sure -- you make these mandatory and then what do you get ... other "voluntary" activities taking their place. The fact is that whatever you do, you will have teams pushing the boundaries b/c they want the edge in both keeping tabs on their players and teaching them complex systems.

Roy got "backlash?" There were a ton of folks on this board jumping to his defense back then.
And there were just as many on his case...But that's neither here nor there.

You're right, teams will always want to push the boundaries, but if it's in writing, then you know for sure, what's allowed and what isn't...without using grandma's guilt tripping methods.

[theogt]

What's legal and illegal in this case has already been decided?I don't think anyone (not even the owners) contest that the lockout violates antitrust law.

[67CowboysFan]

I don't think anyone (not even the owners) contest that the lockout violates antitrust law.
So why are the players still locked out?

[theogt]

So why are the players still locked out?Because the 8th circuit thinks Norris-Laguardia may restrict a court's ability to enjoin a lockout. The 8th circuit said nothing of the merits of the underlying case.

[5Stars]

And there were just as many on his case...But that's neither here nor there.

You're right, teams will always want to push the boundaries, but if it's in writing, then you know for sure, what's allowed and what isn't...without using grandma's guilt tripping methods.

I totally agree with this.
:star:

[CooterBrown]

I don't think anyone (not even the owners) contest that the lockout violates antitrust law.


That is silly. Are you suggesting that the owners intentionally defied the law? If anti-trust law doesn't apply in this situation, as the owners contend, then they haven't violated anti-trust law. If a law says left-handed people can't drive, and I'm right handed, if I drive I haven't violated the law because it doesn't apply to me.

Of course the owners are saying their lockout doesn't violate anti-trust law.

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I'm looking for the quote from Jerry, but one of the reasons why this shortening the offseason is on the table is because the owners (Jerry) believes that offseason practices and the like shouldn't be negotiated as part of the CBA, but left up to the coaches.

Because as was pointed out in the article, while the OTAs are voluntary, heaven forbid a player misses them. So if it's structured as a mandatory thing, then players have to show up vs the passive-aggressive method done by coaches and other players to get the non-participants to show up.

Just like Romo golfing all summer, it wouldnt really matter as long as they are in shape and have time to work the rust off in August.

Maybe a check in sporadically to make sure the Albret Hanyesworths of the league arent letting themselves go

Make in mandated across the league then its all equal.

[Bigdog]

What a completely ignorant post. Educators at all levels spend 100s of hours of time in unpaid activities. The reason why salaries are so low for many of these professions is that they are typically only paid for a 9 or 10 month contract. Despite that, there are countless hours of time spent preparing materials for class, professional development activities, and other tasks ... all done on time "off."

Totally agree with you on this. They spend countless number of hours outside their normal hours not to mention that they have to put up with kids who are disrespectful, defiant, and have a sense of entitlement that is beyond comprehension. If people don't think teaching is a tough profession, they should spend time in their son/daughter's calssroom for a day. Teachers are in charge of educating our most prize national resource-our children. Find me something that is more important than our children and our future as a country. With this great country that we live and all of the great discoveries that happened (medicine, industry, entertainment, etc) someone had to teach the pioneers in their field first. Whatever teachers get paid, it certainly is not enough.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That is silly. Are you suggesting that the owners intentionally defied the law? If anti-trust law doesn't apply in this situation, as the owners contend, then they haven't violated anti-trust law. If a law says left-handed people can't drive, and I'm right handed, if I drive I haven't violated the law because it doesn't apply to me.

Of course the owners are saying their lockout doesn't violate anti-trust law.

Care to point out where they argue that. They have been completely mum on the issue.

They never argue that they do not violate antitrust law as it is very cut and dry. when they have argued it, they argue that they deserve exemption which they have been denied except on a case by case basis.

The 8th Circuit can play tiddlywinks all it wants as it did in American Needle but the unanimous decision in this exact same composition of SCOTUS where they specifically stated that the NFL also competes for players leaves very little doubt where they fall.

[CooterBrown]

Care to point out where they argue that. They have been completely mum on the issue.

They never argue that they do not violate antitrust law as it is very cut and dry. when they have argued it, they argue that they deserve exemption which they have been denied except on a case by case basis.

The 8th Circuit can play tiddlywinks all it wants as it did in American Needle but the unanimous decision in this exact same composition of SCOTUS where they specifically stated that the NFL also competes for players leaves very little doubt where they fall.

You can't just read their brief and look for the words of denial. It is the very essence of their argument.

Their argument is the the decertification was a sham, and because it was, this is a labor dispute that belongs before the NLRB rather than a trial judge. If the decertification was a sham, the exemption continues. And, an exemption means that the anti-trust law does not apply to them, and thus they have not violated the anti-trust law.

So, yes, they do argue that they have not violated anti-trust law.

[Doomsday101]

I did agree that if players were forced to play 18 games instead of the 16 games they should be paid to compensate the increase of games but now owners have agreed to stay with the 16. Now if players want a shorten off season then maybe they should sacrifice some green

[jimnabby]

The average salaried American worker puts in 50 hours a week. That seems to support the assumption that "most" do extra work. About 10 hours extra a week on average.What's the source for this? I haven't been able to find support for that number.

[jrumann59]

I am sure some one said this but wasn't one of the arguments against the 18 game season is the quality of the product on the field. This concession would then be of the same coin. Less football related programs I feel would lead to more injuries, learning curve issues, anything else lost from not "practicing". So yeah I see it now players want a part time job but a pay raise also.

[Rockytop6]

They are complaining about not being able to train and negotiating to have fewer training sessions?

Or am I missing the point?

The contradiction is humorous.

[AbeBeta]

What's the source for this? I haven't been able to find support for that number.

Yeah -- I was hoping to read a response to this as well.

[PullMyFinger]

Wrong. PR is part of this battle and that was a huge PR mistake. Having the most highly paid players crying irreparable harm is just plain dumb.


Finally someone with sense