The Blitz - Tom Ciscowski talks 4th-6th picks

[speedkilz88]

Theebs put this up recently, but it's from 5/8/11 with Ciskowski talking to Brad Sham about Arkin, Thomas, and Harris.


_YnkipY0VYI

[realtick]

Was Ciscowski involved with our 2009 draft?

If so, I'd love to hear him account for that.

[Idgit]

Was Ciscowski involved with our 2009 draft?

If so, I'd love to hear him account for that.

He'd probably say it wasn't very good.

[RS12]

Was Ciscowski involved with our 2009 draft?

If so, I'd love to hear him account for that.

:laugh2:

[burmafrd]

Of course we cannot tell how much Jerruh had to do with that draft, but any way you look at it 2009 sucked basketballs through garden hoses.

[Chocolate Lab]

Of course we cannot tell how much Jerruh had to do with that draft, but any way you look at it 2009 sucked basketballs through garden hoses.

We know Jerry traded away two of our top three picks, which will hamstring any draft.

[dallasdave]

We know Jerry traded away two of our top three picks, which will hamstring any draft.
Thats for sure.

[ThreeandOut]

I seem to recall the 2009 draft being referred to as a scouts draft.

[dallasdave]

I think this years draft will be a good one.

[SilverStarCowboy]

I think this years draft will be a good one.



So far so good!

[CoCo]

So far so good!

We like what little we've seen from Smith, Arkin, Harris & Nagy.

But seeing NOTHING of Carter & Murray concerns me. I don't have much hope of Carter contributing at all this year. A rookie who had zero offseason/preseason work with his team and coming off an ACL to boot? I think its quite possible he's a wash for 2011.

[realtick]

We like what little we've seen from Smith, Arkin, Harris & Nagy.

But seeing NOTHING of Carter & Murray concerns me. I don't have much hope of Carter contributing at all this year. A rookie who had zero offseason/preseason work with his team and coming off an ACL to boot? I think its quite possible he's a wash for 2011.

I get the same feeling.

[Doomsday101]

We like what little we've seen from Smith, Arkin, Harris & Nagy.

But seeing NOTHING of Carter & Murray concerns me. I don't have much hope of Carter contributing at all this year. A rookie who had zero offseason/preseason work with his team and coming off an ACL to boot? I think its quite possible he's a wash for 2011.

I think Carter will have a hard time doing much on defense but I do think he will be able to play special teams pretty early on.

[Alexander]

I seem to recall the 2009 draft being referred to as a scouts draft.

Go to the 1:41 mark for his comments---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Aln_ZHCfqw


We intended to draft backups (read: special teams) and obviously didn't take the "best players regardless".

[Alexander]

So far so good!
You are right!

Two of our top four choices not practicing a single down is just great!

[ThreeandOut]

Go to the 1:41 mark for his comments---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Aln_ZHCfqw


We intended to draft backups (read: special teams) and obviously didn't take the "best players regardless".

He did mention that they hoped some of the players could eventually transition to starters. Obviously, that has not happened. Unless Butler replaces Spenser next year ( if he leaves in free agency), we will likely not have a starter from the 2009 draft class.

[baj1dallas]

sounds like they had a strategy for drafting a certain type of player-mentality.

[Idgit]

He did mention that they hoped some of the players could eventually transition to starters. Obviously, that has not happened. Unless Butler replaces Spenser next year ( if he leaves in free agency), we will likely not have a starter from the 2009 draft class.

The 2009 draft and FA season was a disaster. It set the team back 2-3 regular starters at positions where we're scrambling for depth now. You can't have that happen ever and remain a contender very long.

On a high note, though, we might have come up roses already in 2011. If we walk away with two OL starters, another OL developmental candidate, a WR3 option, and a potential dime back CB from this draft in a year or so, all without our #2 and #3 picks still not touching the field, we'll have patched the talent-hole we dug for ourselves in 2009.

[Marktui]

Was Ciscowski involved with our 2009 draft?

If so, I'd love to hear him account for that.

09 was a horrible draft. But if Victor Butler and John Phillips contribute this year, well that's really all we can hope for from the 09 class.

[PullMyFinger]

We like what little we've seen from Smith, Arkin, Harris & Nagy.

But seeing NOTHING of Carter & Murray concerns me. I don't have much hope of Carter contributing at all this year. A rookie who had zero offseason/preseason work with his team and coming off an ACL to boot? I think its quite possible he's a wash for 2011.



Carter is gonna be a baller mark my words. The only question is when?

[cowboys2233]

You are right!

Two of our top four choices not practicing a single down is just great!


:laugh2: But if these later round guys step up and become quality depth or even starters, we're playing with house money. I don't know anything about Carter but I can promise you you're going to like what you see from Murray...

...at least, in the five or so games per season he's actually healthy for.

[cowboys2233]

09 was a horrible draft. But if Victor Butler and John Phillips contribute this year, well that's really all we can hope for from the 09 class.

We already know what we have with John Phillips as far as I'm concerned, he's the real deal. Just a freak, darn shame what happened last year. And if Butler becomes what he looks like he might turn into, I'm not nearly as down on that draft as some. Especially since Jerry pissed away so many picks.

[jterrell]

Various notes:
2009 looks bad but may be misleading.
McGee is a back up QB and getting those has real value.
Butler is probably our second best pure pass rusher.
Phillips looks like a keeper at TE.

If you get 3 long time contributors out of a draft where you had no first or second round pick that isn't as bad as it appears.

We also still have Buehler and Brandon Williams who aren't cut just yet.

As to Carter my guess is he opens the year on PUP to save the roster spot and let him recover and heal. I doubt we want to rush him onto special teams and risk injury. ACL injury is really a 2 year deal for full recovery. He could possibly play after 1 but probably not at his full capability and he hasn't played football in forever. I am guessing they let him sit until roster spots are freed up by injuries over the natural course of the season. Bring him in later and let him play special teams and and act as scout team linebacker then expect next year to have him ready for off-season development.

[realtick]

We already know what we have with John Phillips as far as I'm concerned, he's the real deal. Just a freak, darn shame what happened last year. And if Butler becomes what he looks like he might turn into, I'm not nearly as down on that draft as some. Especially since Jerry pissed away so many picks.

I don't know man, the 2009 was horrendous no matter how you slice it. Let's run through it again.

*You have to remember to count the 1st & 3rd round picks we gave up for Roy Williams in this draft.

1st - Roy Williams
3rd - Roy Williams
3rd - Jason Williams
3rd - Robert Brewster
4th - Stephen Mcgee
4th - Victor Butler
4th - Brandon Williams
5th - DeAngelo Smith
5th - David Buehler
6th - John Phillips
6th - Stephen Hodge
7th - Mike Mickens
7th - Manuel Johnson


By the end of this training camp, you might even add Brandon Williams to that list.

[cowboys2233]

I don't know man, the 2009 was horrendous no matter how you slice it. Let's run through it again.

*You have to remember to count the 1st & 3rd round picks we gave up for Roy Williams in this draft.

1
3
3
Roy Williiams
Roy Williams
Jason Williams (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=WilliJas02)


Western Illinois
3Robert BrewsterBall State4Stephen McGeeTexas A&M4Victor Butler (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=ButleVic01)Oregon State4Brandon WilliamsTexas Tech5DeAngelo SmithCincinnati5Michael Hamlin (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=HamliMic01)Clemson5David Buehler (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=BuehlDav01)Southern Cal6Stephen HodgeTCU6John Phillips (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=PhillJoh01)Virginia7Mike MickensCincinnati7Manuel JohnsonOklahoma


By the end of this training camp, you might even add Brandon Williams to that list.

I really don't count the Roy Williams debacle as far as the draft evaluation. That was a trade done outside those parameters. And yes, that trade was horrific, I knew that from day one. Just as horrific as the Joey Galloway trade. Make a mistake once and it can be forgiven. You make the same mistake twice and it's darn near inexcusable. I have no idea what Jerry was thinking, none. But whatever. Ultimately, they are all throwaways, except for Butler, Phillips and McGee. But as I alluded to and Jterrell also pointed out, getting a premier pass rusher (which it looks like Butler is turning into), a high-quality TE and a very good backup QB is not really that bad in the grand scheme of things.

[realtick]

I really don't count the Roy Williams debacle as far as the draft evaluation. That was a trade done outside those parameters. And yes, that trade was horrific, I knew that from day one. Just as horrific as the Joey Galloway trade. Make a mistake once and it can be forgiven. You make the same mistake twice and it's darn near inexcusable. I have no idea what Jerry was thinking, none. But whatever. Ultimately, they are all throwaways, except for Butler, Phillips and McGee. But as I alluded to and Jterrell also pointed out, getting a premier pass rusher (which it looks like Butler is turning into), a high-quality TE and a very good backup QB is not really that bad in the grand scheme of things.

I hear you, and I'm high on the players you like as well, although I'm a little reluctant to call Victor Butler and "elite" pass rusher at this point.

I just don't think you can look at the Roy Williams trade any other way. At its base level, Dallas traded a 1st, 3rd and a 6th (swapped spots IIRC) for Roy Williams. Those were picks we could have used in that draft. Now, we could have totally drafted busts, we'll never know. However, we do know that Roy Williams was a huge disappointment in Dallas.

[speedkilz88]

I hear you, and I'm high on the players you like as well, although I'm a little reluctant to call Victor Butler and "elite" pass rusher at this point.

I just don't think you can look at the Roy Williams trade any other way. At its base level, Dallas traded a 1st, 3rd and a 6th (swapped spots IIRC) for Roy Williams. Those were picks we could have used in that draft. Now, we could have totally drafted busts, we'll never know. However, we do know that Roy Williams was a huge disappointment in Dallas.We pretty much do know. Jerry was still interested in wr in that draft. He said that they would have been interested in trading up for Jeremy Maclin when he started falling in the draft. Right there is your 1st and 3rd round picks.

[cowboystar55]

We like what little we've seen from Smith, Arkin, Harris & Nagy.

But seeing NOTHING of Carter & Murray concerns me. I don't have much hope of Carter contributing at all this year. A rookie who had zero offseason/preseason work with his team and coming off an ACL to boot? I think its quite possible he's a wash for 2011.

Nothing WRONG with Carter getting minutes and REPS later in the season!!!! The WAY that Rob Ryan runs DEFENSIVE SCHEMES, he'll have NO problem with using an ATHLETIC STUD like Carter in subpackages once he becomes available. We're in for a real TREAT when he gets on the field. This GUY FLIES TO THE BALL (or QB) and will bring another LEVEL OF SPEED that neither BRADY nor SEAN (or any of our LBs) currently possess!!!! I SEE him as a reincarnation (with even more speed) of the old Dallas Cowboy LB'er Hollywood Henderson. He'll get PICKS, SACKS, and will PASS DEFEND against some of the more athletic NFL TE's that usually give US fits each and every year!!!!:eek:

[realtick]

We pretty much do know. Jerry was still interested in wr in that draft. He said that they would have been interested in trading up for Jeremy Maclin when he started falling in the draft. Right there is your 1st and 3rd round picks.

One came after the other though, it's not that we took Roy over Maclin. When we came into the '09 draft, we still had a 2nd round pick (we may have even had two...) and Jerry mentioned that he saw Maclin dropping to a point where he said he may have seriously considered trading up for him. So the bottomline is had Maclin dropped far enough, Dallas could have had Williams and Maclin (remember Austin had not emerged as a receiver at that point). We would of have had to given up the 2nd rounder and probably a 3rd, et cetera to move up.

[Temo]

Sham apparently not into well fitted suits.

[speedkilz88]

One came after the other though, it's not that we took Roy over Maclin. When we came into the '09 draft, we still had a 2nd round pick (we may have even had two...) and Jerry mentioned that he saw Maclin dropping to a point where he said he may have seriously considered trading up for him. So the bottomline is had Maclin dropped far enough, Dallas could have had Williams and Maclin (remember Austin had not emerged as a receiver at that point). We would of have had to given up the 2nd rounder and probably a 3rd, et cetera to move up.1st and 3rd is what they would have had if they didn't trade for Roy. Those picks would have gotten Maclin. They had no chance to trade up for him with the Roy trade. During that draft they were hoping that Nicks was going to fall into the top second round so that they could trade up for him.

[DFWJC]

We like what little we've seen from Smith, Arkin, Harris & Nagy.

But seeing NOTHING of Carter & Murray concerns me. I don't have much hope of Carter contributing at all this year. A rookie who had zero offseason/preseason work with his team and coming off an ACL to boot? I think its quite possible he's a wash for 2011.
I don't think the expectations were there for Carter to contribute a whole lot in year 1--certainly not until the second half of the season. Akeem Ayers was picked one slot before us. I had the feeling we may have taken him if he were there. Carter could end up being a stud though.

I thought the Murray pick was odd anyway. But maybe down the road he'll be great. There were guys on the board that I really wanted when both Carter and Murray were picked.

In any case, if you get 3 guys in a single draft to contribute, you have done well. I can see us having 4-5 helping in 2011 alone.

[realtick]

1st and 3rd is what they would have had if they didn't trade for Roy. Those picks would have gotten Maclin. They had no chance to trade up for him with the Roy trade. During that draft they were hoping that Nicks was going to fall into the top second round so that they could trade up for him.

That makes no sense.

Prior to the trade, the Cowboys had the 20th pick. Philly took Maclin at #19. It would not have taken a 1st (20th pick) & 3rd to move up one spot.

Irregardless, the Cowboys thought Maclin was going to drop further down the 1st round, as in the back end of the 1st round, which generated the comment by Jerry. The Cowboys entered into the '09 draft with a 2nd rounder (#51 overall). That pick coupled with perhaps a 3rd or with a 2010 pick could have gotten them into the back end of the 1st round.

[Deep_Freeze]

Would love to see the beginning of this clip where he talks about the first 3 picks.

[realtick]

Sham apparently not into well fitted suits.

Lol, good call.

Looks like Sham is rockin' a size 65 jacket.

[speedkilz88]

That makes no sense.

Prior to the trade, the Cowboys had the 20th pick. Philly took Maclin at #19. It would not have taken a 1st (20th pick) & 3rd to move up one spot.

Irregardless, the Cowboys thought Maclin was going to drop further down the 1st round, as in the back end of the 1st round, which generated the comment by Jerry. The Cowboys entered into the '09 draft with a 2nd rounder (#51 overall). That pick coupled with perhaps a 3rd or with a 2010 pick could have gotten them into the back end of the 1st round.The eagles wouldn't trade with them Einstein. Edit/ I will give you that it would have been cheaper than I thought in that draft to trade up for him. Looking at the previous picks teams moved down pretty cheap. But no, Jerry never thought he was going to fall further than that. He was speaking that they would have been interested had they still had the 20th pick. They were all about Nicks falling late enough or into the early second but that didn't happen.

[realtick]

The eagles wouldn't trade with them Einstein. Edit/ I will give you that it would have been cheaper than I thought in that draft to trade up for him. Looking at the previous picks teams moved down pretty cheap. But no, Jerry never thought he was going to fall further than that. He was speaking that they would have been interested had they still had the 20th pick. They were all about Nicks falling late enough or into the early second but that didn't happen.

Lol, what can't you compute peabrain? You're completely making up crap.

So now the only reason the trade didn't happen is because the Eagles wouldn't trade with Dallas? First of all, where do you get that Dallas was supposed to be trading with Philly for the #19 pick (I'm asking rhetorically, because it's crap). Second, what was Dallas going to offer?

Dallas didn't have a 1st round pick in '09. And they certainly didn't have the ammo to move up to #19. Jerry was thinkiing Maclin was going to fall to the bottom-end of round 1. A package of their 2nd rounder #51 and other picks would have put him in that range.

Dallas traded for Roy Williams in the middle of the '08 season. You wanna act like they made a draft day trade after being turned down by Philly.

Stop trying to rewrite history.

[Risen Star]

Alexander's kinda twisting Ciskowski's words here. I generally agree with his stance but he's making it out like our intent was to draft career backups. That's not what he said. They felt their starters were set (which is where I agree that the approach was wrong....we constantly overvalue our own players) and that any players drafted would first be backing up and playing special teams. But hopefully in time they would develop into starters.