Disgusting Act By A Cowboys Fan at the Game

[Hostile]

Cowboys fan uses Taser gun on Jets crowd at MetLife Stadium

9/13/2011 6:15:49 AM

A diehard Cowboys fan wildly fired a stun gun in a crowd at MetLife Stadium in the Meadowlands injuring three people, including a Marine, according to the New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2011/09/12/2011-09-12_cowboys_fan_uses_taser_gun_on_jets_crowd_at_met life_stadium_despite_security_on_.html).

Leroy McKelvey, 59, of Moncks Corner, S.C., used a Taser gun on Jets fans during an upper-deck brawl at halftime Sunday night, said Sgt. Julian Castellanos of the New Jersey State Police.

McKelvey is the father of Power 105.1 deejay Charlamagne Tha God, co-host of "The Breakfast Club."

Three men suffered minor injuries in the fracas at the nationally televised football game.

The melee erupted after a Marine became annoyed at McKelvey and his friends for not taking their hats off or standing during the National Anthem and speaking loudly during "Taps" and "Amazing Grace."

Witnesses told cops McKelvey got into a fight with the Marine, who was sitting at the end of his row in section 324 and refused to let him out to go to the restroom at halftime.

McKelvey pulled a stun gun from his pocket and fired, hitting the unidentified Marine in the neck and sending him tumbling down six rows, witnesses told cops.

It was not immediately clear how McKelvey snuck a Taser into MetLife Stadium, where there was tight security because of the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and because former President George W. Bush was at the game.

McKelvey's son blamed Jets coach Rex Ryan for creating a hostile environment at the game by saying in earlier press conferences that "it's probably not recommended that you wear Cowboys stuff" to MetLife Stadium.

[casmith07]

I don't fault the Marine at all. One of my pet peeves is idiots talking during the National Anthem.

[CowboyPrincess]

I just saw this on the news. Offensive on so many levels. The violence displayed by fans the past few weeks at NFL games is making the attendance of events a life risking endeavor

[starchamber]

Cowboys fan uses Taser gun on Jets crowd at MetLife Stadium

9/13/2011 6:15:49 AM

A diehard Cowboys fan wildly fired a stun gun in a crowd at MetLife Stadium in the Meadowlands injuring three people, including a Marine, according to the New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2011/09/12/2011-09-12_cowboys_fan_uses_taser_gun_on_jets_crowd_at_met life_stadium_despite_security_on_.html).

Leroy McKelvey, 59, of Moncks Corner, S.C., used a Taser gun on Jets fans during an upper-deck brawl at halftime Sunday night, said Sgt. Julian Castellanos of the New Jersey State Police.

McKelvey is the father of Power 105.1 deejay Charlamagne Tha God, co-host of "The Breakfast Club."

Three men suffered minor injuries in the fracas at the nationally televised football game.

The melee erupted after a Marine became annoyed at McKelvey and his friends for not taking their hats off or standing during the National Anthem and speaking loudly during "Taps" and "Amazing Grace."

Witnesses told cops McKelvey got into a fight with the Marine, who was sitting at the end of his row in section 324 and refused to let him out to go to the restroom at halftime.

McKelvey pulled a stun gun from his pocket and fired, hitting the unidentified Marine in the neck and sending him tumbling down six rows, witnesses told cops.

It was not immediately clear how McKelvey snuck a Taser into MetLife Stadium, where there was tight security because of the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and because former President George W. Bush was at the game.

McKelvey's son blamed Jets coach Rex Ryan for creating a hostile environment at the game by saying in earlier press conferences that "it's probably not recommended that you wear Cowboys stuff" to MetLife Stadium.

Just saw that on the news this morning. How does one get into a stadium in NY on the 10 year anniversary of 9/11 with a stun gun ? Don't understand people who object for showing public allegiance for this great nation but would not think of renouncing their citizenship. The line leaving is much shorter than the one to get in...

[CrazyCowboy]

We have some sad individuals living in our Country and the stun gun dummy is exhibit-A

[zrinkill]

I hope he gets a long prison term.

[CowboyPrincess]

I hope he gets a long prison term.

Maybe he will with it being an assault on a member of our military. And with Pres. Bush being in attendance . I sure hope so.

[JackMagist]

That fool is definitely due some jail time as Aggrivated Assult is no minor offense. Tack on a Public Endangerment charge and he could be looking at 3 to 5. And I'd give him the max if I had a say in it.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Dude needs to be repeatedly shot in the anus with a tazer.

Sounds like the guy went there with the express intent of causing trouble and would not be shocked if he did so to get attention but took things too far.

Either way...taze his hole. :D

[IAMKING]

What a *******. Must be a New Yorker turned Cowboy fan

[burmafrd]

a well charged cattle prod up his butt will hurt more.

[TheCount]

We were by there, was wondering what the commotion was. There were several fights in the uppers, security was all over the place. It was not a peaceful gathering. Kind of embarrassing really to be fighting over football on 9/11.

[Biggems]

first of all, the Cowboys fans were in their rights. I go to games all the time and people take, turn around, eat, sit, leave their caps on....I am not saying I like it, I hate it, but it is within their rights. I was raised to stand at attention and pay respect to our colors, our flag, our anthem.....In fact, I choke up everytime I sing it, cause I think about all the sacrifices my family members made so I can be free.

The Marine was out of line to get on the guy for not showing respect....If the Cowboys fans don't want to pay attention to our national anthem or taps they dont have to. Once again, I hate that they show such little respect.

Now, onto the tazer guy.....nice job of security checking the fans before the game. Some guy sneaks in a tazer and goes crazy. The Cowboys fan who used the tazer should be put in jail. Just because someone uses words against you, does not give you the right to use violence. He seems like he was purposely trying to start trouble just so he could use his tazer in front of his buddies.

[Dalmations202]

Funny, but this is not the story I read. I read it from the other side, and the 59 year old man was just wearing a Cowboys jersey and ended up defending himself with the taser after he was attacked.

Funny how one side/article reads one thing and another the other.

Guess it depends on which side you were on, and how the media portrayed it.

[zrinkill]

Dude needs to be repeatedly shot in the anus with a tazer.

Sounds like the guy went there with the express intent of causing trouble and would not be shocked if he did so to get attention but took things too far.

Either way...taze his hole. :D

http://ecdn2.hark.com/images/000/008/568/8568/original.png

[CowboyPrincess]

Funny, but this is not the story I read. I read it from the other side, and the 59 year old man was just wearing a Cowboys jersey and ended up defending himself with the taser after he was attacked.

Funny how one side/article reads one thing and another the other.

Guess it depends on which side you were on, and how the media portrayed it.

Regardless of who started it, he had no business bringing a weapon in. The scary thing is that he got it in with the extra security and the raised terror threat in the area because of the anniversary of the terror attack. Not like he tried to sneak in a shoe bomb. A tazer.is fairly easy to detect if you are doing your job

[tyke1doe]

I don't fault the Marine at all. One of my pet peeves is idiots talking during the National Anthem.

But is it your job or the Marine's job to force others to be patriotic?

[dfense]

Cowboys fan uses Taser gun on Jets crowd at MetLife Stadium

9/13/2011 6:15:49 AM

A diehard Cowboys fan wildly fired a stun gun in a crowd at MetLife Stadium in the Meadowlands injuring three people, including a Marine, according to the New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2011/09/12/2011-09-12_cowboys_fan_uses_taser_gun_on_jets_crowd_at_met life_stadium_despite_security_on_.html).

Leroy McKelvey, 59, of Moncks Corner, S.C., used a Taser gun on Jets fans during an upper-deck brawl at halftime Sunday night, said Sgt. Julian Castellanos of the New Jersey State Police.

McKelvey is the father of Power 105.1 deejay Charlamagne Tha God, co-host of "The Breakfast Club."

Three men suffered minor injuries in the fracas at the nationally televised football game.

The melee erupted after a Marine became annoyed at McKelvey and his friends for not taking their hats off or standing during the National Anthem and speaking loudly during "Taps" and "Amazing Grace."

Witnesses told cops McKelvey got into a fight with the Marine, who was sitting at the end of his row in section 324 and refused to let him out to go to the restroom at halftime.

McKelvey pulled a stun gun from his pocket and fired, hitting the unidentified Marine in the neck and sending him tumbling down six rows, witnesses told cops.

It was not immediately clear how McKelvey snuck a Taser into MetLife Stadium, where there was tight security because of the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and because former President George W. Bush was at the game.

McKelvey's son blamed Jets coach Rex Ryan for creating a hostile environment at the game by saying in earlier press conferences that "it's probably not recommended that you wear Cowboys stuff" to MetLife Stadium.HA ha , of course it's not your Dad's fault he's a jerk *%$. with a taser. Everyone knows you can't be held responsible for your own actions in todays complex world. I see those beliefs were passed down to his kid to.

[Rynie]

I hope he gets a long prison term.

Not sure if serious.

[zrinkill]

Not sure if serious.

What are you confused about?

[Hostile]

There is video of this. Don't post it due to the language please.

[Temo]

There's so many things wrong with this.

1. Not standing for the anthem during 9/11 anniversary. Even if you have issues with your country, and suck it up and stop looking for attention.

2. No need to be the enforcer of patriotism. Let the man go to the bathroom.

3. How the hell did he get in the stadium with a taser? The ****?

[Rynie]

A prison sentence for tazing someone? Wow. Don't get it twisted, I don't condone the action, but nobody's dead.

[NateNewton61]

There is video of this. Don't post it due to the language please.

Its been on Deadspin for a few days now and is sure to go viral. Makes me sick to my stomach to see someone acting that way wearing a Cowboys jersey, the complete opposite of what that jersey represents.

[Temo]

And then there's this: "The suspect's son said that his dad is a devout Jehovah's Witness and doesn't believe in standing for the Pledge of Allegiance or National Anthem."

[BigD_95]

first of all, the Cowboys fans were in their rights. I go to games all the time and people take, turn around, eat, sit, leave their caps on....I am not saying I like it, I hate it, but it is within their rights. I was raised to stand at attention and pay respect to our colors, our flag, our anthem.....In fact, I choke up everytime I sing it, cause I think about all the sacrifices my family members made so I can be free.

The Marine was out of line to get on the guy for not showing respect....If the Cowboys fans don't want to pay attention to our national anthem or taps they dont have to. Once again, I hate that they show such little respect.

Now, onto the tazer guy.....nice job of security checking the fans before the game. Some guy sneaks in a tazer and goes crazy. The Cowboys fan who used the tazer should be put in jail. Just because someone uses words against you, does not give you the right to use violence. He seems like he was purposely trying to start trouble just so he could use his tazer in front of his buddies.

I agree with this post up until the Tazer guy. I dont know what these guys look like but if the Cowboys fan is being harassed during the whole first half. Then he tries to go to the bathroom. The Marine wouldnt let him pass? The Marine then interfered with the Cowboys fan rights and freedom. The Marine was obviously doing this to start a fight and the Cowboys fan had every right to move the Marine out of the way. Using a Tazer gun I disagree with but Im 6' 2" and used to kickbox & train all my life. I just would have moved him. But maybe the cowboys fan fear for his safety. Maybe the Marine threaten him.

Just because the guy is a Marine doesnt mean he is a good person. Marine's can be jerks too. I actually got in a fight with one years ago. Playing backyard football. He sucker punched me.

I dont know the whole story but it sounds to me the Marine was in the wrong from the start. Then wrong at halftime.

[ABQCOWBOY]

But is it your job or the Marine's job to force others to be patriotic?


It is not a matter of forcing. It is a matter of personal rights, just as it is for the citizen who elected to act the way he did.

[zrinkill]

A prison sentence for tazing someone?.

I prison sentence for tazing a guy in the neck sending him toppling down 6 rows and for smuggling in an illegal weapon in a very high security place.

[Idgit]

I don't fault the Marine at all. One of my pet peeves is idiots talking during the National Anthem.

It's a peeve of mine, too. But it is his right to be disrespectful if that's who he wants to be. Marine should not have tried to restrict him from going to a bathroom. It would have been sufficient to let the guy know what a pile he is as he filed past.

That said, the idiot with the stun gun is going to get what he deserves. He's going to be shocked by the consequences of smuggling a weapon into a sporting event on 9/11.

[trickblue]

I don't fault the Marine at all. One of my pet peeves is idiots talking during the National Anthem.

But is it your job or the Marine's job to force others to be patriotic?

It always bothers me when people don't respect the National Anthem, but on the other hand, it is a free country. Added to the fact, McKelvey is a Jehovah's Witness and they don't believe in standing for the anthem or pledging allegiance to the flag.

There is a lot more to this story than being reported. The National Anthem incident happened at the beginning of the game. The fight occurred at halftime. I'm not exonerating anyone, but that fight happened an hour and a half after the National Anthem incident, so there is likely more to the story...

[BraveHeartFan]

That is just disgusting. Things like this should never happen and when you see something like this, for any team, it makes you ashamed to say you're a fan of that team with someone like this acting that way.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree with this post up until the Tazer guy. I dont know what these guys look like but if the Cowboys fan is being harassed during the whole first half. Then he tries to go to the bathroom. The Marine wouldnt let him pass? The Marine then interfered with the Cowboys fan rights and freedom. The Marine was obviously doing this to start a fight and the Cowboys fan had every right to move the Marine out of the way. Using a Tazer gun I disagree with but Im 6' 2" and used to kickbox & train all my life. I just would have moved him. But maybe the cowboys fan fear for his safety. Maybe the Marine threaten him.

Just because the guy is a Marine doesnt mean he is a good person. Marine's can be jerks too. I actually got in a fight with one years ago. Playing backyard football. He sucker punched me.

I dont know the whole story but it sounds to me the Marine was in the wrong from the start. Then wrong at halftime.

You can't walk around the guy? There is only one bathroom and one path to that bathroom? This is silly. Under no circumstances would it be OK to widely tas anybody.

The Marine probably should not have done that. No question but lighting the guy up and causing him to fall down several flights of stairs is not the answer by any stretch and they guy should go to jail for it if found guilty. How easy would it have been for this fan to fall and hit his head or break something during the fall? That's pretty dangerous IMO.

[Sasquatch]

Dude needs to be repeatedly shot in the anus with a tazer.

Thank you, Sir, may I have another!

[adbutcher]

People are getting crazier and crazier.

[ABQCOWBOY]

People are getting crazier and crazier.

Makes you kinda wonder don't it?

[Eric_Boyer]

The marine thought he had the authority to prevent a man from moving out of the isle because of a transgression in patriotic etiquette?

What a moron!

[Hostile]

A prison sentence for tazing someone? Wow. Don't get it twisted, I don't condone the action, but nobody's dead.I absolutely would send him to jail if I were a judge. He took a weapon into a mass event on 9/11 and he used it.

I don't care who started it. I don't care who was wrong. He used a weapon that he had no business using. No different than a knife or a club. It is a weapon involved.

If it was two fans in a fist fight, no. But when you add a weapon, yes, I would send him to jail for it and send a message to the next jagoff who wants to try and sneak one in.

IMO Jets Security are liable for that getting past the gates. Had I caught him with it at the gates he'd have missed the game talking to the cops.

[ABQCOWBOY]

The marine thought he had the authority to prevent a man from moving out of the isle because of a transgression in patriotic etiquette?

What a moron!

Without having more background, it's hard to say anything. However, I'm sure that just as the Fan had the right to act as he did, the Marine probably felt as if he had the right to stay where he was, in his assigned seat. A good decision? Probably not but it would be interesting to know what the law might think of this. I honestly don't know.

[BigD_95]

You can't walk around the guy? There is only one bathroom and one path to that bathroom? This is silly. Under no circumstances would it be OK to widely tas anybody.

The Marine probably should not have done that. No question but lighting the guy up and causing him to fall down several flights of stairs is not the answer by any stretch and they guy should go to jail for it if found guilty. How easy would it have been for this fan to fall and hit his head or break something during the fall? That's pretty dangerous IMO.

What if the guy felt his life was threaten? The guy could have been small and weak. The Marine could have been big? Besides the Military trains Marines as weapons. So the Marines himself is a weapon and probably able to seriously hurt or kill that guy with his bare hands.


Now its being reported that the cowboys fan was a devout Jehovah's Witness and its against his religion to stand. Now what? The Marine is supposed to protect our rights and freedoms. I completely believe this was the Marines fault. He started on another persons freedoms & religious beliefs.

As for jail time. I think the courts need to decide if the guy was defending himself. I dont think if you got caught with a Taz gun at a football game you go to jail. So then it becomes why did you use it. Was it in self defense? Does the guy have any background history? There is too much to the story to pass judgment .

If the Marine assaulted him first maybe he should see some criminal charges himself.

[Eric_Boyer]

Without having more background, it's hard to say anything. However, I'm sure that just as the Fan had the right to act as he did, the Marine probably felt as if he had the right to stay where he was, in his assigned seat. A good decision? Probably not but it would be interesting to know what the law might think of this. I honestly don't know.


The marine chose to initiate the confrontation by physically preventing the person from leaving the isle. He wasn’t in his seat by the way, he was standing up, which is also why he fell 6 rows after being tazed (I saw a poorly shot phone video of the event)

I hope he learned the lesson the hard way, but I somehow doubt it.

[Future]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/mvalvan1/taser.jpg

The guy with the taser deserves to get his *** beat imo...

[Eric_Boyer]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/mvalvan1/taser.jpg

The guy with the taser deserves to get his *** beat imo...

I find the whole thing quite ironic and a fail on so many levels.

essentially, the marine was angry because of the lack of patriotism shown during ther anthem.

at sporting events, one of the reasons we do things like recite the anthem is to show the respect to our servicemen who risk their lives to fight for our freedom.

the cowboys fan in question is a jehovahs witness, and it is against his religion to stand for the national anthem, salute flags, etc, etc.

so the marine chose to restrict the freedom of the jehova's witness to move freely around the stadium because of a lack of patriotism.


I don't really buy into the motives myself. If the fan that didn't stand was a Jets fan, I imagine some strong words in passing the marine was all that would of occured. The blocking of the isle thing had more to do with wearing cowboys colors IMO, but I obviously can't prove motive.

[ABQCOWBOY]

What if the guy felt his life was threaten? The guy could have been small and weak. The Marine could have been big? Besides the Military trains Marines as weapons. So the Marines himself is a weapon and probably able to seriously hurt or kill that guy with his bare hands.

World is filled with Marines who are now civilians. He could have felt any of those things but I have seen no proof, one way or the other, that the guy was threatened. Either way, that does not give this fan the right to use a taser gun. I doubt there is any credible defense for that, considering that fact that the weapon was not allowed in the stadium to begin with.


Now its being reported that the cowboys fan was a devout Jehovah's Witness and its against his religion to stand. Now what? The Marine is supposed to protect our rights and freedoms. I completely believe this was the Marines fault. He started on another persons freedoms & religious beliefs.

I wonder, does the Jehovah's Witness faith recommend using a weapon on somebody to settle such matters. I know for a fact that it does not. The Marine also has rights and freedoms. They are not their for the sole purpose of simply catering to anybody. They also have personal lives and beliefs, just as any other American would. From what I can read, the Marine did not make any physical attempt to do anything. But since you bring it up, if you are a Witness and you know that saying the pledge is not part of your belief system, why would you go out of your way in a public forum, on a day like 9/11 to make a spectacle of this fact? Why would you invite this kind of thing? That is not a part of what being a Witness is about.

As for jail time. I think the courts need to decide if the guy was defending himself. I dont think if you got caught with a Taz gun at a football game you go to jail. So then it becomes why did you use it. Was it in self defense? Does the guy have any background history? There is too much to the story to pass judgment .

The guy was in possession of a weapon illegally. He broke the law. There is enough evidence right there to pass judgment. EOS

If the Marine assaulted him first maybe he should see some criminal charges himself.

There is no evidence of this anywhere. However, I can tell you that even if nothing is done to the Marine by civil authorities, he will have consequences to face upon his return to post. That's how it works in the military. How sever those consequences might be will depend on the findings but at the very least, this will be addressed and handled within the Corp and very possibly at the unit level depending upon the Marine's rank.

[ABQCOWBOY]

The marine chose to initiate the confrontation by physically preventing the person from leaving the isle. He wasn’t in his seat by the way, he was standing up, which is also why he fell 6 rows after being tazed (I saw a poorly shot phone video of the event)

I hope he learned the lesson the hard way, but I somehow doubt it.

I did not see this reported. If you have the actual reporting of this altercation, I would be interested in seeing it. Standing or sitting, does not matter. He paid for the seat. If he indeed physically prevented the man, then that does change things slightly but even still, you are not going to get around the fact that the Fan had, in his possession, an illegal weapon and he used it. That really is the end of the story IMO.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I find the whole thing quite ironic and a fail on so many levels.

essentially, the marine was angry because of the lack of patriotism shown during ther anthem.

at sporting events, one of the reasons we do things like recite the anthem is to show the respect to our servicemen who risk their lives to fight for our freedom.

the cowboys fan in question is a jehovahs witness, and it is against his religion to stand for the national anthem, salute flags, etc, etc.

so the marine chose to restrict the freedom of the jehova's witness to move freely around the stadium because of a lack of patriotism.


I don't really buy into the motives myself. If the fan that didn't stand was a Jets fan, I imagine some strong words in passing the marine was all that would of occured. The blocking of the isle thing had more to do with wearing cowboys colors IMO, but I obviously can't prove motive.

Jehovah's Witness are also not supposed to bear arms. They are not supposed to carry weapons. They are not supposed to fight. They really aren't even supposed to wear things like Jersys because that is part of the "World" and it is not well accepted. I have doubts about the whole Witness thing but whatever.

[Eric_Boyer]

I did not see this reported. If you have the actual reporting of this altercation, I would be interested in seeing it. Standing or sitting, does not matter. He paid for the seat. If he indeed physically prevented the man, then that does change things slightly but even still, you are not going to get around the fact that the Fan had, in his possession, an illegal weapon and he used it. That really is the end of the story IMO.

Witnesses told police the Marine refused to allow McKelvey to let him out of the aisle to go to the restroom during halftime.

if you are sitting or standing, how can you refuse a person to leave the isle without it becoming physical?

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/sep/13/moncks-corner-man-arrested-brawl-cowboys-jets-game/

[Eric_Boyer]

Jehovah's Witness are also not supposed to bear arms. They are not supposed to carry weapons. They are not supposed to fight. They really aren't even supposed to wear things like Jersys because that is part of the "World" and it is not well accepted. I have doubts about the whole Witness thing but whatever.

so what? I have doubts about most people that claim some form of faith, but they still have the freedom to practice something half *****.

[AbeBeta]

Now its being reported that the cowboys fan was a devout Jehovah's Witness and its against his religion to stand. Now what? The Marine is supposed to protect our rights and freedoms. I completely believe this was the Marines fault. He started on another persons freedoms & religious beliefs.


Can anyone verify if that is correct -- the part about the beliefs meaning he can't stand. You can certainly be respectful while choosing not to participate.

Of course, the Marine needs to just let the dude pee. Blocking the aisle is just childish.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Witnesses told police the Marine refused to allow McKelvey to let him out of the aisle to go to the restroom during halftime.

if you are sitting or standing, how can you refuse a person to leave the isle without it becoming physical?

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/sep/13/moncks-corner-man-arrested-brawl-cowboys-jets-game/

This article does not say that the Marine was physical or that he initiated any contact at all. He may have but this article does not say that. The Marine could simply have stood, facing forward, at the end of the isle and refused to move. That does not constitute physicality. It could be as simple as that. I don't know the circumstances but either way, there are multiple bathrooms and there are other ways to get out of that isle. You can step over the seat, you can go the other way, many options. I am not saying that this is how a person should behave but would the Marine be within his rights to act like this? I don't know the answer to that. We do know, however, that the Fan was not in his rights to act as he did. Evidence of this comes from the same article you posted.

"Leroy McKelvey, 59, is charged with felony aggravated assault, felony possession of a stun gun and illegal possession of a weapon, according to multiple published reports. He was released from the Bergen County Jail on $22,500 bond, according to the Associated Press. "

[ABQCOWBOY]

so what? I have doubts about most people that claim some form of faith, but they still have the freedom to practice something half *****.

The Marine has rights also, as demonstrated by the fact that the Fan was arrested.

Apparently, each person practiced their rights and one of them took that practice too far.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Can anyone verify if that is correct -- the part about the beliefs meaning he can't stand. You can certainly be respectful while choosing not to participate.

Of course, the Marine needs to just let the dude pee. Blocking the aisle is just childish.

Yep, and he will receive instruction on this upon his return to camp or Duty Station. I would bet money on that.

[Eric_Boyer]

This article does not say that the Marine was physical or that he initiated any contact at all.

it is not possible to block an exit without being physical.

a little common sense is in order.

[ABQCOWBOY]

it is not possible to block an exit without being physical.

a little common sense is in order.

Of course it is. You simply stand up in front of your seat, facing forward, arms folded and you refuse to move. You ignore the person. That is not hard to see. I don't know that this is what happened but it is entirely possible to do this without laying hands or being physical.

But thank you for the common sense remark. I will certainly do my best to improve in this area.

[Eric_Boyer]

Of course it is. You simply stand up in front of your seat, facing forward, arms folded and you refuse to move. You ignore the person. That is not hard to see. I don't know that this is what happened but it is entirely possible to do this without laying hands or being physical.

But thank you for the common sense remark. I will certainly do my best to improve in this area.


if that was what actually went down, witnesses wouldn't be so quick to offer the fact that he was blocking the cowboys fan from exiting the isle.

[ABQCOWBOY]

if that was what actually went down, witnesses wouldn't be so quick to offer the fact that he was blocking the cowboys fan from exiting the isle.

You may be correct but you have offered no proof to substantiate this. You may be 100% accurate but I have seen nothing to confirm that.

[Eric_Boyer]

You may be correct but you have offered no proof to substantiate this. You may be 100% accurate but I have seen nothing to confirm that.

We have proof that he was intentionally blocking the exit. if a person is intentionally blocking your exit, they are the ones initiating the aggression. The marine deserved some form of blow back, so my concern is for the innocent by-standers, not that idiot.


If the Cowboys fan chose to throw a punch, instead of an electrical charge, he would have my total sympathy.

[CowboyStar88]

Can anyone verify if that is correct -- the part about the beliefs meaning he can't stand. You can certainly be respectful while choosing not to participate.

Of course, the Marine needs to just let the dude pee. Blocking the aisle is just childish.

My cousins are and they are not allowed to. It always bothered me. Also they have guns and fire arms. So as far as I am concerned it's just a double standard.

[Eric_Boyer]

My cousins are and they are not allowed to. It always bothered me. Also they have guns and fire arms. So as far as I am concerned it's just a double standard.

Choosing to carry a weapon to defend yourself has zero to do with nationalism, so no double standard exists

The only double standard is that he won’t pay respect to a flag, or the country, but wraps himself up in cowboys attire. That one makes no sense at all.

[ABQCOWBOY]

We have proof that he was intentionally blocking the exit. if a person is intentionally blocking your exit, they are the ones initiating the aggression. The marine deserved some form of blow back, so my concern is for the innocent by-standers, not that idiot.


If the Cowboys fan chose to throw a punch, instead of an electrical charge, he would have my total sympathy.


I don't know if that is how the legal system would view that. I guess we will find out. As for the Marine deserving some blow back, well, I think getting tased and falling down 6 flights of steps is enough.

I can not see how the dividing line would be a punch thrown from a 59 year old man of devout faith as opposed to getting tased but that's your affair.

[Cajuncowboy]

Can I please be locked in a room with this idiot for 10 minutes? Please?

[Rogah]

Of course it is. You simply stand up in front of your seat, facing forward, arms folded and you refuse to move. You ignore the person. That is not hard to see. I don't know that this is what happened but it is entirely possible to do this without laying hands or being physical.

But thank you for the common sense remark. I will certainly do my best to improve in this area.It can be considered assault to block someone's way, even if you're just standing there with your arms crossed doing nothing, if it is an area where they are reasonably expected to have freedom to pass. Sounds to me like both guys are jerks and both guys were in the wrong.

To me the bigger story (which no one in the media really seems to be mentioning) is the fact that a guy got a weapon which could just as easily been a real gun into a secure location with the former President in attendance.

[Hostile]

It can be considered assault to block someone's way, even if you're just standing there with your arms crossed doing nothing, if it is an area where they are reasonably expected to have freedom to pass. Sounds to me like both guys are jerks and both guys were in the wrong.

To me the bigger story (which no one in the media really seems to be mentioning) is the fact that a guy got a weapon which could just as easily been a real gun into a secure location with the former President in attendance.Had not factored that into the equation, but you are right.

[Eric_Boyer]

Can I please be locked in a room with this idiot for 10 minutes? Please?

which idiot? I see two of them in this altercation

[ABQCOWBOY]

It can be considered assault to block someone's way, even if you're just standing there with your arms crossed doing nothing, if it is an area where they are reasonably expected to have freedom to pass. Sounds to me like both guys are jerks and both guys were in the wrong.

To me the bigger story (which no one in the media really seems to be mentioning) is the fact that a guy got a weapon which could just as easily been a real gun into a secure location with the former President in attendance.


If it were the only way to pass or if it was some sort of safety violation, then I can see that as a possible defense. However, I don't see any legal body allowing for this. The guy could have gone the other way or, he could have called an stadium attendant or he could have simply stepped over the seat above or below and gained access. Again, it's possible but I think that it's not probable.

The fact that the guy has a weapon in that stadium has been mentioned and I do agree. That pretty much trumps all IMO. No way to come out ahead when you are in that stadium with an illegal weapon.

[Bigdog]

The funny thing is that Marine and many have died for that guy to have the right not to stand for national anthem. I love it when people say they have the right to do what they want but forget that men and women gave up their lives for them to have that right. If this guy did not want to stand for the national anthem, then so be it. At least have the respect and decency to keep you mouth shut to honor those people who gave you that right. I only wish the Marine would have shut his mouth up permanantly.

[tyke1doe]

It is not a matter of forcing. It is a matter of personal rights, just as it is for the citizen who elected to act the way he did.

What? :huh:

You have no personal right to block a man's access to the bathroom because he didn't stand for the pledge.

What the heck are you talking about? :confused:

[ABQCOWBOY]

What? :huh:

You have no personal right to block a man's access to the bathroom because he didn't stand for the pledge.

What the heck are you talking about? :confused:

The Marine has a personal right to occupy the area he paid for.

This has been discussed already. Do we really need to retrace our steps here?

[CowboyStar88]

Can I please be locked in a room with this idiot for 10 minutes? Please?

Not defending his actions, but that is part of his religious belief and that should be respected. He has rights to. Just because some agree with him does not mean he is wrong. Now did if have to go that far and assault someone? Nope! I would highly doubt that marine would have done anything to him but intimidate him

[trickblue]

Can I please be locked in a room with this idiot for 10 minutes? Please?

With or without the Taser... ;)

[Cajuncowboy]

which idiot? I see two of them in this altercation

The greater of the two idiots. The one who was dumb enough to...

1. Bring a stun gun to a packed stadium in NYC on the 10th anniversary of 9/11

2. Have the nerve to not only not give respect to the flag and those who died in the attacks (His choice if he wants to do that) but to purposely attempt to disrupt the proceedings for those around him.

3. Intentionally goad people into starting a fight with him knowing this would be the end result. (Obviously he did since he BROUGHT A STUN GUN).

That's the idiot I'm talking about.

My thing is if you don't want to stand for the National Anthem, that's your call. If you don't agree with playing Amazing Grace, fine. But you have no right to disrupt that for others. Especially knowing full well that going into the situation that this would be happening. The guy was looking for a fight.

[Cajuncowboy]

Not defending his actions, but that is part of his religious belief and that should be respected. He has rights to. Just because some agree with him does not mean he is wrong. Now did if have to go that far and assault someone? Nope! I would highly doubt that marine would have done anything to him but intimidate him

He was being disruptive on purpose. He could just sit quietly and keep his mouth shut. He didn't have to try and be a jerk about it.

[Cajuncowboy]

With or without the Taser... ;)

Either way. If can bring his weapon of choice, can I bring mine?:draw:

[Eric_Boyer]

The Marine has a personal right to occupy the area he paid for.

This has been discussed already. Do we really need to retrace our steps here?


So two people at the beginning/end of the isle can block anybody they want from accessing the middle seats.

This is acceptable because the ticket holders can use some form of grappling hook and rope to clamp on some structure and swing to the seats they paid to occupy. so no harm, no foul. /sarcasm

[tyke1doe]

The Marine has a personal right to occupy the area he paid for.

This is ridiculous on so many levels.

He has a right to a seat. He doesn't have a right to block the ingress and egress of others to and from their seats.

Second, if he has a personal right to occupy the area he paid for, then Mr. Tazer has the right to his seat and to use the public restroom he paid for when he plopped down his money to attend the Jets game. And if Mr. Marine doesn't move, Mr. Tazer has a right to remove him if he blocks said access. (Doesn't mean he has the right to Taze him. But he does have the right to go around him or make contact with him if he does not move.

It cuts both ways, if you're going to take that approach.

This has been discussed already. Do we really need to retrace our steps here?

If the discussion includes the lame excuse you gave above, then, yes, it needs to be retraced and addressed properly. Besides, I was responding to your post. This is just a follow up.

[Eric_Boyer]

My thing is if you don't want to stand for the National Anthem, that's your call. If you don't agree with playing Amazing Grace, fine. But you have no right to disrupt that for others. Especially knowing full well that going into the situation that this would be happening. The guy was looking for a fight.


You do have a right to talk during the anthem. It’s a huge part of that freedom of speech thingy, which the marine in question must not be too fond of.

[Cajuncowboy]

You do have a right to talk during the anthem. It’s a huge part of that freedom of speech thingy, which the marine in question must not be too fond of.

So no problem. I bet you are ok with the Westboro Baptists showing up at funerals of soldiers and protesting and disrupting them as well, because well, it's that freedom of speech thingy.

Honestly, I know you don't share that sentiment because no one in their right mind would, but in an essence, that's what this was. Paying tribute to those we lost. Would it really be that hard to not act like an @ss on his part?

[ABQCOWBOY]

So two people at the beginning/end of the isle can block anybody they want from accessing the middle seats.

This is acceptable because the ticket holders can use some form of grappling hook and rope to clamp on some structure and swing to the seats they paid to occupy. so no harm, no foul. /sarcasm

I don't know. However, I do know this. Two people at each end of the aisle were not, in fact, blocking access. Only one is reported to have done this so their is an opportunity to avoid the situation. This would seem to suggest that emminent threat was not in play. If we follow this to it's conclusion, assuming no emminent threat, then there was no reason to use the taser. The situation could have been avoided. Would seem to suggest excessive force.

The rest of your post is hyperbole. It has a certain theatrical appeal but it is not accurate in it's depiction.

[tyke1doe]

He was being disruptive on purpose. He could just sit quietly and keep his mouth shut. He didn't have to try and be a jerk about it.

I agree. But the Marine took matters into his own hands. The stadium should have a policy to address such behavior. If the stadium doesn't, as irritating as it is (and I agree it's irritating and disrespectful), a private citizen cannot take matters into his own hands. That's for stadium security.

[Eric_Boyer]

So no problem. I bet you are ok with the Westboro Baptists showing up at funerals of soldiers and protesting and disrupting them as well, because well, it's that freedom of speech thingy.

I would have a major problem with a law preventing them from doing so as such a law would eventually grow into something that prevents me from expressing my opinion on things.

Honestly, I know you don't share that sentiment because no one in their right mind would, but in an essence, that's what this was. Paying tribute to those we lost. Would it really be that hard to not act like an @ss on his part?

Do you have some evidence of the rude behavior? As loud as a stadium is, I am skeptically that the transgression went beyond not rising and taking off the hat.

[tyke1doe]

So two people at the beginning/end of the isle can block anybody they want from accessing the middle seats.

No, they can't. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

[Picksix]

Cowboys fan uses Taser gun on Jets crowd at MetLife Stadium

9/13/2011 6:15:49 AM

A diehard Cowboys fan wildly fired a stun gun in a crowd at MetLife Stadium in the Meadowlands injuring three people, including a Marine, according to the New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2011/09/12/2011-09-12_cowboys_fan_uses_taser_gun_on_jets_crowd_at_met life_stadium_despite_security_on_.html).

Leroy McKelvey, 59, of Moncks Corner, S.C., used a Taser gun on Jets fans during an upper-deck brawl at halftime Sunday night, said Sgt. Julian Castellanos of the New Jersey State Police.

McKelvey is the father of Power 105.1 deejay Charlamagne Tha God, co-host of "The Breakfast Club."

Three men suffered minor injuries in the fracas at the nationally televised football game.

The melee erupted after a Marine became annoyed at McKelvey and his friends for not taking their hats off or standing during the National Anthem and speaking loudly during "Taps" and "Amazing Grace."

Witnesses told cops McKelvey got into a fight with the Marine, who was sitting at the end of his row in section 324 and refused to let him out to go to the restroom at halftime.

McKelvey pulled a stun gun from his pocket and fired, hitting the unidentified Marine in the neck and sending him tumbling down six rows, witnesses told cops.

It was not immediately clear how McKelvey snuck a Taser into MetLife Stadium, where there was tight security because of the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and because former President George W. Bush was at the game.

McKelvey's son blamed Jets coach Rex Ryan for creating a hostile environment at the game by saying in earlier press conferences that "it's probably not recommended that you wear Cowboys stuff" to MetLife Stadium.

Unbelievable. To cause such an egregious act, and then blame someone else.

[joseephuss]

So no problem. I bet you are ok with the Westboro Baptists showing up at funerals of soldiers and protesting and disrupting them as well, because well, it's that freedom of speech thingy.

Honestly, I know you don't share that sentiment because no one in their right mind would, but in an essence, that's what this was. Paying tribute to those we lost. Would it really be that hard to not act like an @ss on his part?

You can have a problem with someone being a jerk(protesting funerals or disrupting the national anthem), but still accept that they have a right to be a jerk. Doesn't mean you or I have to like it. It isn't as if we can stop it anyway. A jerk is going to be a jerk no matter what. We can tell them to please stop talking during the national anthem, but it sounds as if this particular person is still going to do it.

[Cajuncowboy]

I agree. But the Marine took matters into his own hands. The stadium should have a policy to address such behavior. If the stadium doesn't, as irritating as it is (and I agree it's irritating and disrespectful), a private citizen cannot take matters into his own hands. That's for stadium security.

What difference would it make if there was a policy? They didn't enforce the one about no weapons.

[tyke1doe]

I don't know. However, I do know this. Two people at each end of the aisle were not, in fact, blocking access. Only one is reported to have done this so their is an opportunity to avoid the situation.

First, how do you know this, i.e., that both ends weren't blocked?

Second, is it your argument that Mr. Tazer should have walked allll the way down the farthest aisle to avoid conflict? How about Mr. Marine? Should he have moved out of the way to avoid conflict?

The rest of your post is hyperbole. It has a certain theatrical appeal but it is not accurate in it's depiction.

He said his comment was made in sarcasm. Sarcasm is a form of exaggeration.

[Cajuncowboy]

I would have a major problem with a law preventing them from doing so as such a law would eventually grow into something that prevents me from expressing my opinion on things.



Do you have some evidence of the rude behavior? As loud as a stadium is, I am skeptically that the transgression went beyond not rising and taking off the hat.

Didn't you read the first post in the thread?
Also, I swear it almost sounds like you condone the Westboro example. It is analogous.

[tyke1doe]

What difference would it make if there was a policy? They didn't enforce the one about no weapons.

The difference is you can make it stick if you decide to prosecute or if you ban the man from returning to the stadium.

Cases are thrown out of court because an organization or entity didn't have stated policy prohibiting a particular behavior or action.

They may not have enforced the policy about weapons, but they could if they had known about it. Same situation here. If they have the policy that people are to be respectful during the pledge, that at least gives them a legal leg to stand on when they remove people for being disruptive or disrespectful during the pledge.

[Cajuncowboy]

You can have a problem with someone being a jerk(protesting funerals or disrupting the national anthem), but still accept that they have a right to be a jerk. Doesn't mean you or I have to like it. It isn't as if we can stop it anyway. A jerk is going to be a jerk no matter what. We can tell them to please stop talking during the national anthem, but it sounds as if this particular person is still going to do it.

They don't have a right to disrupt the experience for others around them. Look at it this way, if you go to a theater to watch a movie, does the people around you have a right to talk through the movie, thus disrupting and ruining your experience? I mean you did pay for your ticket.

Same with the game. Others paid for their ticket to go to the game and experience it as it was intended to be presented. The jerk violated the rights that the others had to enjoy the presentation they paid to enjoy.

[Cajuncowboy]

The difference is you can make it stick if you decide to prosecute or if you ban the man from returning to the stadium.

Cases are thrown out of court because an organization or entity didn't have stated policy prohibiting a particular behavior or action.

They may not have enforced the policy about weapons, but they could if they had known about it. Same situation here. If they have the policy that people are to be respectful during the pledge, that at least gives them a legal leg to stand on when they remove people for being disruptive or disrespectful during the pledge.

I'm sure they do have the right to eject people from the stadium for being disruptive. And I agree the Marine probably should have gone to the security detail. (As a matter of fact, he should have known to do that). That being said, there was not just cause to initiate contact and certainly no justification to fire a stun gun at the Marine.

[ABQCOWBOY]

[QUOTE]This is ridiculous on so many levels.

He has a right to a seat. He doesn't have a right to block the ingress and egress of others to and from their seats.

Second, if he has a personal right to occupy the area he paid for, then Mr. Tazer has the right to his seat and to use the public restroom he paid for when he plopped down his money to attend the Jets game. And if Mr. Marine doesn't move, Mr. Tazer has a right to remove him if he blocks said access. (Doesn't mean he has the right to Taze him. But he does have the right to go around him or make contact with him if he does not move.

It cuts both ways, if you're going to take that approach.


I agree that he has that right. Nowhere in any of my posts will you find me in disagreement with that. I encourage you to check so that you may confirm for yourself that this is the case.

Nobody said he did not have the right to go around him. Nobody said he did not have the right to make contact with him, to a certain extent, to get passed him. So far as I can tell, nobody has suggested anything of the sort. However, the Law is not going to support this position because the man clearly had other avenues of access to the lavatory. I believe that it is as simple as that.

Time and again, it has been stated that this Marine did not use the best judgment. I think all of you need to try and get past that. However, that does not change the fact that this fan brought an illegal weapon to this event, this fan did not show good judgment in talking at a time when it would have served him better to have observed silence for the occasion, even if it is not something he personally believed in. I find it odd that folks can not seem to grasp the fact that the very thing they are arguing for, freedom of religious practice and tolerance of same can not be acknowledged in the case of all the people around the fan and their freedom to honor the country, the victims and the events. The disrespect for the occasion is at least as thoughtless as the behavior shown by the Marine. I am not saying that you do not see this but I am saying that it has to be acknowledged.

The fan should have shown better judgment and he didn't. The fan should have known that at a sporting event, such as this, the National Anthem is going to be played. The fan should have known that on 9/11, a rememberance ceremony was going to happen. He had to know that the stadium would not only be filled with Americans who believed in all of these things but Americans who would be wearing Jets gear. He had to know that what he was doing would be considered offensive to many. Where do the rights of these people come into play? Where is the outrage for the rights of those folks?

I guess they don't exist.


If the discussion includes the lame excuse you gave above, then, yes, it needs to be retraced and addressed properly. Besides, I was responding to your post. This is just a follow up.

If you find that it is too much bother to read through the thread, perhaps you should just excuse yourself from it. I do not wish to bore your intellect with such lame excuse making. Do not bother yourself.

[tyke1doe]

I'm sure they do have the right to eject people from the stadium for being disruptive. And I agree the Marine probably should have gone to the security detail. (As a matter of fact, he should have known to do that). That being said, there was not just cause to initiate contact and certainly no justification to fire a stun gun at the Marine.

Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. I'm quite certain the stadium has a no-weapons policy - or at least I would hope so.

And I agree that if the Marine wouldn't move, Mr. Tazer should have simply hopped over another seat and gone to the bathroom.

I'm not justifying the actions of Mr. Tazer. But I don't think we have to absolve the Marine for his part in this encounter just to show we support the military and his act of courage in joining the Marines and putting his life on the line for our country.

Again, this is not one of those either/or situations, at least not to me.

[tyke1doe]

I agree that he has that right. Nowhere in any of my posts will you find me in disagreement with that. I encourage you to check so that you may confirm for yourself that this is the case.

Nobody said he did not have the right to go around him. Nobody said he did not have the right to make contact with him, to a certain extent, to get passed him. So far as I can tell, nobody has suggested anything of the sort.

Here is what you said ...


It is not a matter of forcing. It is a matter of personal rights, just as it is for the citizen who elected to act the way he did.


The Marine has a personal right to occupy the area he paid for.

You want to explain the apparent contradictions? :huh:


If you find that it is too much bother to read through the thread, perhaps you should just excuse yourself from it. I do not wish to bore your intellect with such lame excuse making. Do not bother yourself.


What appears to be happening here is that you're conflating two issues.

I'm not arguing the Tazer issue. Everyone agrees Mr. Tazer was in the wrong.

I'm countering your argument that Mr. Marine has a right to his seat, which also includes blocking the access of others who want to get past him to go to the bathroom.

You seem to want to argue the wrong of Mr. Tazer to negate the wrong of Mr. Marine. While what Mr. Tazer did is definitely wrong, Mr. Marine doesn't have the right to take matters into his own hands, i.e., he needs to move so people can get in and out of the aisle.

What so ironic here is that Mr. Marine is irritated that Mr. Tazer and friends were jerks in not standing and talking during the pledge yet he is being a jerk trying to irritate others who want to get to the bathroom when his path likely was the most direct route.

Again, pointing out that Mr. Marine was in the wrong doesn't make his wrong greater and doesn't mean that people who do highlight it are less patriotic.

[ABQCOWBOY]

You do have a right to talk during the anthem. It’s a huge part of that freedom of speech thingy, which the marine in question must not be too fond of.

You may be right. I imagine that the first thing that happened, once the Marine recovered from being tased and regained consciousness from falling down the stairs, most of the medical folks and fans in general probably reminded him of exactly that.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree. But the Marine took matters into his own hands. The stadium should have a policy to address such behavior. If the stadium doesn't, as irritating as it is (and I agree it's irritating and disrespectful), a private citizen cannot take matters into his own hands. That's for stadium security.

Have you ever been to New York City? If you have not, you may not be familiar with how things are done there. It's really an interesting phenomenon. The citizens of that City actually tell you exactly what's on their mind at any given moment. Shockingly, every time they do this, the local law enforcement body does not arrest them for taking matters into their own hands.

I know, nobody was more shocked then I when I first observed this behavior. Well, maybe the guy who tased the Marine might have been a little more shocked. Certainly the Marine received a great shock but outside of those two, nobody.

[joseephuss]

They don't have a right to disrupt the experience for others around them. Look at it this way, if you go to a theater to watch a movie, does the people around you have a right to talk through the movie, thus disrupting and ruining your experience? I mean you did pay for your ticket.

Same with the game. Others paid for their ticket to go to the game and experience it as it was intended to be presented. The jerk violated the rights that the others had to enjoy the presentation they paid to enjoy.

Everything you said is correct and all of that can be addressed by getting security or staff at the stadium. I have done that at a movie before. More often or not, you don't make the situation better when dealing with a jerk by being a jerk yourself. And for the record the jerk with the taser is the much bigger jerk.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I would have a major problem with a law preventing them from doing so as such a law would eventually grow into something that prevents me from expressing my opinion on things.



Do you have some evidence of the rude behavior? As loud as a stadium is, I am skeptically that the transgression went beyond not rising and taking off the hat.

Do you have evidence that the Marine said anything more then show some respect?

I'll tell you what we do have evidence of. We have evidence that the Fan was charged and the Marine was not.

[Eric_Boyer]

[/B]Didn't you read the first post in the thread?

Sure, the marine guilty of blocking the aisle gave his account of why he did it, but I am unaware of any collaborating testimony of this disruption?

[Cajuncowboy]

Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. I'm quite certain the stadium has a no-weapons policy - or at least I would hope so.

And I agree that if the Marine wouldn't move, Mr. Tazer should have simply hopped over another seat and gone to the bathroom.

I'm not justifying the actions of Mr. Tazer. But I don't think we have to absolve the Marine for his part in this encounter just to show we support the military and his act of courage in joining the Marines and putting his life on the line for our country.

Again, this is not one of those either/or situations, at least not to me.

I'm with you. I said the Marine was idiot number two. It's just that I want to beat Idiot number one because he instigated it.

[tyke1doe]

Have you ever been to New York City? If you have not, you may not be familiar with how things are done there. It's really an interesting phenomenon. The citizens of that City actually tell you exactly what's on their mind at any given moment. Shockingly, every time they do this, the local law enforcement body does not arrest them for taking matters into their own hands.

First, yes, I have visited New York City. I was just up there in July. My sister lives in Harlem. :)

Second, just because they do that doesn't mean they should. Just as just because people are talking during the Pledge doesn't mean they should.


I know, nobody was more shocked then I when I first observed this behavior. Well, maybe the guy who tased the Marine might have been a little more shocked. Certainly the Marine received a great shock but outside of those two, nobody.

For what it's worth, Mr. Tazer should get some time. His action was uncalled for. BTW, do the NYC stadiums have jail facilities as I've heard Philly's stadium does?

[Cajuncowboy]

Everything you said is correct and all of that can be addressed by getting security or staff at the stadium. I have done that at a movie before. More often or not, you don't make the situation better when dealing with a jerk by being a jerk yourself. And for the record the jerk with the taser is the much bigger jerk.

As far as I can tell, the only thing the Marine did was not move his legs for the taser guy to get through. And he should have crawled over a seat go to the restroom and then tell security if thought the Marine was being disruptive himself. Again, I don't completely absolve the Marine, but tasering him went waaaayy beyond the line.

[Cajuncowboy]

Sure, the marine guilty of blocking the aisle gave his account of why he did it, but I am unaware of any collaborating testimony of this disruption?

Well, if there was something more than that it would have been known by now since the taser guy's kid is a DJ and you better believe a different version would have hit the air by now, two days later. And since there is no conflicting evidence, then we have to go on the available evidence and not assume that there might be a story that would better fit our wishes.

Sometimes, it is what it is.

[tyke1doe]

I'm with you. I said the Marine was idiot number two. It's just that I want to beat Idiot number one because he instigated it.

Well, I can understand the emotion. I too want to force people to do things I think they should do, like pulling up their pants from off the bottom of their rumps and standing respectfully for the Pledge even if they don't believe it or at least being quiet when others reverently pay tribute.

We have too many people in our society who want to flaunt their rudeness and crudeness.

But there's a fine line between being brave and standing up to people and intruding upon their rights. I fear we focus more on rights that people forget their responsibility of respect. But rights aren't worth anything if we can't respect them when people exercise them even when we disagree with what they say.

But, I think the appropriate reaction toward Mr. Tazer and friends would have been to sing/shout the National Anthem as loudly as possible or encircle them - without making contact, of course - as it was being sung. :)

[Cajuncowboy]

Well, I can understand the emotion. I too want to force people to do things I think they should do, like pulling up their pants from off the bottom of their rumps and standing respectfully for the Pledge even if they don't believe it or at least being quiet when others reverently pay tribute.

We have too many people in our society who want to flaunt their rudeness and crudeness.

But there's a fine line between being brave and standing up to people and intruding upon their rights. I fear we focus more on rights that people forget their responsibility of respect. But rights aren't worth anything if we can't respect them when people exercise them even when we disagree with what they say.

But, I think the appropriate reaction toward Mr. Tazer and friends would have been to sing/shout the National Anthem as loudly as possible or encircle them - without making contact, of course - as it was being sung. :)

No no no. I don't want to force them to stand, sing, put their hand over their heart or fart the national anthem. I do however want them to at minimum, not act like a jerk for 5 minutes while this is going on. They were disruptive and talking loudly so that people around them would be disrupted.

That's what I want to stop.

[Eric_Boyer]

Well, I can understand the emotion. I too want to force people to do things I think they should do, like pulling up their pants from off the bottom of their rumps and standing respectfully for the Pledge even if they don't believe it or at least being quiet when others reverently pay tribute.

We have too many people in our society who want to flaunt their rudeness and crudeness.

But there's a fine line between being brave and standing up to people and intruding upon their rights. I fear we focus more on rights that people forget their responsibility of respect. But rights aren't worth anything if we can't respect them when people exercise them even when we disagree with what they say.

But, I think the appropriate reaction toward Mr. Tazer and friends would have been to sing/shout the National Anthem as loudly as possible or encircle them - without making contact, of course - as it was being sung. :)

love your post and couldn't agree more!

[CanadianCowboysFan]

He shouldn't have tasered the jarhead but said jarhead also shouldn't have been blocking the aisle.

For those who are up in arms and want the guy drawn and quartered, would you feel the same way IF the victim was not a marine?

How would you feel if some guy, marine or not blocked your exit to take a leak?

[ABQCOWBOY]

You want to explain the apparent contradictions? :huh:

Sure, but I would first have to understand where the contradiction is. I don't see it in any of what you posted earlier. Sorry.


What appears to be happening here is that you're conflating two issues.

I'm not arguing the Tazer issue. Everyone agrees Mr. Tazer was in the wrong.

I'm countering your argument that Mr. Marine has a right to his seat, which also includes blocking the access of others who want to get past him to go to the bathroom.


I said he has the right to occupy his space. I never said he had the right to prevent the Old Devout Witness guy who apparently worships the Cowboys, believes in personal violence, rejects the ways of his own religion by engaging in violent acts and is willing to break the law and attack a man all in the name of blocking his way. I never said that. I said it is possible to obstruct the path without using physical force or laying hands on the man. I think you are the one who is being less then honest here. The Marine does have the right to his seat. That is not even a question. His actions with regards to preventing the man leeway were poor, as has been admitted numerous times. At the end of the day, none of that justifies what happened. You wanna say the young Marine acted like a kid, OK. You wanna say the Old Religious man was 100% in the wrong here, I would probably agree with that too.

You seem to want to argue the wrong of Mr. Tazer to negate the wrong of Mr. Marine. While what Mr. Tazer did is definitely wrong, Mr. Marine doesn't have the right to take matters into his own hands, i.e., he needs to move so people can get in and out of the aisle.

On the contrary. In fact, this sounds like what you would like my argument to be. It is not.

What so ironic here is that Mr. Marine is irritated that Mr. Tazer and friends were jerks in not standing and talking during the pledge yet he is being a jerk trying to irritate others who want to get to the bathroom when his path likely was the most direct route.


No, what is ironic here is that there seem to be those who can not make the distinction between two mean acting childishly and one man breaking the law and putting another persons life in danger. That, to me, is the ironic part of this particular discussion.


Again, pointing out that Mr. Marine was in the wrong doesn't make his wrong greater and doesn't mean that people who do highlight it are less patriotic.

No, what it means is that people are not paying attention here. One guy was arrested. The other guy was tased into unconsciousness and feel down the stairs. You can't really get around that singular fact.

[ABQCOWBOY]

He shouldn't have tasered the jarhead but said jarhead also shouldn't have been blocking the aisle.

For those who are up in arms and want the guy drawn and quartered, would you feel the same way IF the victim was not a marine?

How would you feel if some guy, marine or not blocked your exit to take a leak?


Would you feel the same way if the guy were not a Marine? Would you feel the same way if the guy had fallen and struck his head and killed himself on the concrete step or suffered brain damage as a result?

[Cajuncowboy]

He shouldn't have tasered the jarhead but said jarhead also shouldn't have been blocking the aisle.

For those who are up in arms and want the guy drawn and quartered, would you feel the same way IF the victim was not a marine?

How would you feel if some guy, marine or not blocked your exit to take a leak?

I'll answer. First, if the guy was blocking the aisle and wouldn't let me through, I would crawl over the row and get out. Then if I thought he was being a monumental jerk about it I would tell security. NOT TASER THE GUY.

Also, yes, I would feel the same way if it was not a Marine. As I said before, the Marine was acting like a jerk as well. The taser guy was just being a much bigger jerk, disrupting the proceedings and risking the safety of those around him.

[ABQCOWBOY]

First, yes, I have visited New York City. I was just up there in July. My sister lives in Harlem. :)

Second, just because they do that doesn't mean they should. Just as just because people are talking during the Pledge doesn't mean they should.

Well then, how can you even suggest what you did before? The citizens of that city take matters into their own hands in a verbal fashion, on a daily basis. You must know how hollow that rings. It's like saying to a room full of gamblers, this guy is worse for gambling because he drinks beer too.

That's just what they do in the East.



For what it's worth, Mr. Tazer should get some time. His action was uncalled for. BTW, do the NYC stadiums have jail facilities as I've heard Philly's stadium does?

I have not been to the New Stadium so I do not know if they do or not but I would not be surprised.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am sorry to all in this thread. I suppose I am just to close to this subject matter. Should probably just stop posting in this thread.

I do not mean to be combative or disrespectful. We are all Cowboy fans.

You have my apologies if I have come across as too harsh.

[Eric_Boyer]

I am sorry to all in this thread. I suppose I am just to close to this subject matter. Should probably just stop posting in this thread.

I do not mean to be combative or disrespectful. We are all Cowboy fans.

You have my apologies if I have come across as too harsh.


I never felt disrespected. This discussion probably is a bit too political for the forum though.

[8FOR!3]

This guy WOULD be from South Carolina. Deserves whatever sentence he gets. The whole talking during the national anthem is disrespectful to everybody in attendance. Did Rex Ryan really say that though? I'm a 6'4 ticked off Texan, I would wear all my Cowboys gear to a game there and the fans would love me. Screw Rex Ryan, we've got the real Ryan.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Would you feel the same way if the guy were not a Marine? Would you feel the same way if the guy had fallen and struck his head and killed himself on the concrete step or suffered brain damage as a result?

Not much of an answer to answer with a question.

I wouldn't care who it was. He is just some anonymous Jet fan to me.

[Hostile]

He shouldn't have tasered the jarhead but said jarhead also shouldn't have been blocking the aisle.

For those who are up in arms and want the guy drawn and quartered, would you feel the same way IF the victim was not a marine?

How would you feel if some guy, marine or not blocked your exit to take a leak?Yes sir. He used a weapon. The victim, who I also think acted like a jerk here, is irrelevant to the act of using a weapon in a stadium where they are banned.

[arglebargle]

Way too much knee jerk, emotional reaction in this thread, every which way. I'll wait til more of the story comes out before going into some form of high dudgeon.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

The fact the cat got a taser into the stadium just shows the false sense of security we see ourselves as having in North America now that they have implimented checks and others such things at airports, Disneyland, stadiums etc

I guess it allegedly makes us feel safer but in the end, there still is no real security.

[Merlin]

This was posted on deadspin with some of the video footage. The Marine was not an innocent party.

A Marine at the end of the row noticed that McKelvey and three others in his party would not stand or take their hats off for the national anthem," a law enforcement officer said. "So the Marine tells McKelvey he better not have to get out of the row cause he won't let him out."

Sure enough, during the halftime show, McKelvey got up. Words were exchanged.

[daschoo]

This guy WOULD be from South Carolina. Deserves whatever sentence he gets. The whole talking during the national anthem is disrespectful to everybody in attendance. Did Rex Ryan really say that though? I'm a 6'4 ticked off Texan, I would wear all my Cowboys gear to a game there and the fans would love me. Screw Rex Ryan, we've got the real Ryan.

why i don't understand why you have segregated seating at sports events over there

[Cajuncowboy]

This was posted on deadspin with some of the video footage. The Marine was not an innocent party.

I didn't see a video but I did see a picture of the nut job with the taser....

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2011/09/leroy_mckelvey.jpg

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I didn't see a video but I did see a picture of the nut job with the taser....

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2011/09/leroy_mckelvey.jpg

looks like he could kick just about everyone's butt

[8FOR!3]

why i don't understand why you have segregated seating at sports events over there

I was implying that the guy's an idiot, which is why I'm not shocked he's from SC.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

why i don't understand why you have segregated seating at sports events over there

I think you mean don't have segregated seating

they do in college, but not for pro sports

[Cajuncowboy]

why i don't understand why you have segregated seating at sports events over there

Generally, with the possible exception of a few screwballs like the guy we are talking about here, we don't have problems. Generally we don't have riots. Mostly it's just a few fans getting drunk and fighting with each other.

Usually, it's never a problem.

[tyke1doe]

Well then, how can you even suggest what you did before? The citizens of that city take matters into their own hands in a verbal fashion, on a daily basis. You must know how hollow that rings. It's like saying to a room full of gamblers, this guy is worse for gambling because he drinks beer too.

That's just what they do in the East.

Because, that's not what people are supposed to do, that's why.

Vigilanteeism is wrong, according to our laws, especially when it does not involve a crime in progress.

I don't care whether it's a cultural norm. It's not a legal norm.

And I'm sorry, but you lost me on the gambling analogy. I have no idea what you mean. :huh:

[hutch1254]

I don't fault the Marine at all. One of my pet peeves is idiots talking during the National Anthem.

You wouldn't like going to a Chicago Bears / Bulls / Blackhawks game then. They cheer like crazed maniacs when they sing the anthem. The first time I experienced it was like, what the hell is going on and then my brother law told me it was tradition. The next I experienced it, it made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. It was pretty awesome. But that is their thing. I'm all for everyone cheering, would like to see it more, but if it's a quiet crowd then yes I would hope some jackwagon isn't talking during it.

[sunbum]

Well then, how can you even suggest what you did before? The citizens of that city take matters into their own hands in a verbal fashion, on a daily basis. You must know how hollow that rings. It's like saying to a room full of gamblers, this guy is worse for gambling because he drinks beer too.

That's just what they do in the East.


Being a New Yawka, I take extreme offense to these ignorant statements. If you were in front of me, I would give you a verbal beat down like you've never seen before. Aight? :p:

[jobberone]

Technically the Marine is guilty of false imprisonment. You cannot restrict someones ability to move. They are extremely unlikely to charge him for this.

Both were wrong although it would piss me off for someone to talk during the National Anthem esp in that setting. If they want to sit fine.

If I was restricted I would have just gone the other way and perhaps considered discussing it with security. Probably I'd just avoid the guy.

Using a taser on someone who is restricting your movement is an inappropriate response to the threat. There is no legal right to respond physically in that setting. If the older man can prove he was physically threatened by the Marine as in I'm going to beat the crap out of you old man then the situation may be mitigated a little but will not exonerate him.

Having the taser is illegal unless you are a policeman. That's a felony. Having it in the stadium is probably a municipal or city violation as well as a state felony. Using it is at least aggravated assault and a felony. Tasers have killed people.

The least that will happen to the older guy is probation. No one will drop the charges unless he can buy his way out of it and that's unlikely considering the press its gotten. He is likely to go jail unless he has some reasonably serious health problems. If he has a prior record then that will hurt a lot as well.

The Marine will get dressed down but he's very unlikely to be punished even if only an Article 15. He could get on someone's **** list though. Doubt that as well.

The older man is at risk for a civil suit as well.

[WV Cowboy]

You wouldn't like going to a Chicago Bears / Bulls / Blackhawks game then. They cheer like crazed maniacs when they sing the anthem. The first time I experienced it was like, what the hell is going on and then my brother law told me it was tradition. The next I experienced it, it made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. It was pretty awesome. But that is their thing. I'm all for everyone cheering, would like to see it more, but if it's a quiet crowd then yes I would hope some jackwagon isn't talking during it.

Then it must have been the Bears game that I noticed the crown doing that on Sunday, as they were going from stadium to stadium during the National Anthem.

My favorite guy singing the NA that day was a big burly guy that was singing really loud and boisterous. He was awesome. Much better than some puny little person quietly singing, IMO.

Not sure what game he was at though. I would like to see it again if anyone knows the guy I am talking about.

[Hoofbite]

A prison sentence for tazing someone? Wow. Don't get it twisted, I don't condone the action, but nobody's dead.

Nobody dies when some drunk comes home and beats the hell out of his wife and kids for years on end.

[Hoofbite]

What a stupid thing to do. On both accounts.

How do you even get a tazer into the stadium?

And why would you tell someone that you won't let them pass and then follow through by blocking the aisle?

If the guy wants to sit for the national anthem it's his choice. If he wants to talk and play a game of Yahtzee, it's his choice. I would fully expect those around him to call him on it and I might even do so myself but to get confrontational and block the man's path is just ridiculous.

This from a marine as well? Show a little composure and take pride in knowing that you risking your life has contributed to the greatness of this country and with that comes the few exceptions where people fail to respect that commitment or flat out don't care.

*******s are everywhere and there isn't much you can do about it.

The marine behaved like a child and the wacko should have never made it to his seat in the first place.

[SilverStarCowboy]

Well that dude is in trouble.

[sacase]

If it were the only way to pass or if it was some sort of safety violation, then I can see that as a possible defense. However, I don't see any legal body allowing for this. The guy could have gone the other way or, he could have called an stadium attendant or he could have simply stepped over the seat above or below and gained access. Again, it's possible but I think that it's not probable.

The fact that the guy has a weapon in that stadium has been mentioned and I do agree. That pretty much trumps all IMO. No way to come out ahead when you are in that stadium with an illegal weapon.

You cannot block someone from exiting an area. Like another posters said it could be considered assault. Next time you get into a fight with your significant other, try to block their path from leaving the house and see how the police treat you. The Marine instigated the fight, he is just as wrong as the person who smuggled the weapon. If the civilian court system doesn't do anything I know this Marine has an article 15 coming. Conduct unbecoming and article 134. He will see a lighter paycheck, reduction in rank and quite probably extra duty and confinement to quarters. He embarrassed the Corps. I know if one of my soldiers had done this when I was an NCO I would ask for a article 15.

Other dude who brought the tazer also got what he deserved. Felony charges seems about right. He will be chillin in jail with buba soon.