Lenny P with Howard insights...

[InmanRoshi]

One defensive starter is gone from New Orleans and another is still likely to leave.

Tebucky Jones
Jones

Deemed expendable by theSaints following the recent signing of Dwight Smith, safety Tebucky Jones was released on Tuesday after a two-year stint with the team, one day before the team would have been forced to pay him a $400,000 roster bonus.

Within minutes of his release, Jones reached a contract agreement in principle with the Miami Dolphins.

The Saints' roster move came as the team continued to discuss trading defensive end Darren Howard. The Dallas Cowboys are believed to be the front-runner for Howard, and team officials and agent Gary Wichard have exchanged contract proposals contingent on a trade being completed.

New Orleans came close to trading Jones to the Dolphins over the weekend, but the two sides could not agree on compensation. Once he was officially free, Miami wasted no time in striking a two-year accord.

The deal, when officially completed, will pay Jones $1.5 million in 2005, including signing and roster bonuses totaling $835,000 and a base salary of $650,000. He can earn about $500,000 more in incentives. The contract requires the Dolphins to make a roster bonus payment of $3.3 million next spring to keep Jones for a second year, at a base salary of $3 million.

Jones, who owns a home in Miami, will get the chance to play strong safety, where he will align close to the line of scrimmage, and where he is more effective. In New Orleans, he often played free safety, a position for which Jones lacks range and basic ball skills. He led the Saints with 102 tackles in 2004, the first season in which he started all 16 games, and demonstrated again he is a heavy hitter.

But in his two-year New Orleans tenure, Jones, who was expected to fly to Miami on Tuesday evening, had just two interceptions and two forced fumbles. Seeking a free safety who was more a ballhawk and who could help create more takeaways, the Saints last week signed Smith, formerly of Tampa Bay, to a five-year, $15 million contract.

For his career, Jones has appeared in 104 games and started 66 of them. He has posted 358 tackles, six interceptions and 31 passes defensed. Jones began his NFL career with the New England Patriots, where he was a first-round choice in the 1998 draft.

While there is still much work to be done, the trade of Howard appears inevitable, and there is no lack of interest in the former second-round draft choice.

At least a half-dozen teams, most notably the Cowboys and Seattle Seahawks, have discussed a possible swap to land Howard, a five-year veteran and a proven pass rusher. The Saints, who designated Howard as a "franchise" player, have shopped him for a couple of weeks.

It is believed that the Saints are seeking a high-round draft choice and a defensive player in return for Howard. Wichard has proposed to the Cowboys a six-year deal that would be worth about $34 million and include total bonuses of $16 million. That would include a $7 million signing bonus and $9 million second-tier bonus due next spring.

Should the Cowboys acquire Howard, who has 41 career sacks, it might signal that Dallas coach Bill Parcells has decided not to switch to a 3-4 front in 2005.

Howard, 28, has signed the one-year "franchise" qualifying offer of $7.8 million, and that is a prohibitive amount for the Saints to carry on their salary cap. New Orleans, which has a pair of first-round defensive ends in Charles Grant and Will Smith, would prefer to rid itself of that cap hit. By dealing Howard, the Saints would recoup the entire $7.8 million and perhaps use the savings to work on long-term extensions for veterans such as tailback Deuce McAllister and center LeCharles Bentley.

While he has been plagued by injuries the past two seasons, Howard remains a top-shelf player at a premium position. As usual, there is a dearth of quality defensive linemen in the unrestricted free agent pool and that has enhanced his value even further. Dallas has plenty of bargaining ammunition, since it owns two first-round choices in the '05 draft.

Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com. To check out Len's chat archive, click here Insider.

[Nors]

That was fast on Tebucky Jones, Safeties getting scooped up left and right.

Sharper, Tebucky Jones.

Plan C?

[WoodysGirl]

Interesting to read some of the numbers being thrown about. Two-tiered bonus is something I hadn't considered. Not sure I agree with it, as I think a 9 million bonus would spark some cap issues. Spread it out over a few years, then I might be a little more agreeable.

Good find IR.

[InmanRoshi]

Dan Snyder likes using the tiered bonus structure. I guess basically the thought process behind it is it covers you in case something catastrophic happens that first year.

[Breedogg]

Has anyone out there heard any up to date info. on Darren Howard trade why don't we get plaxicco........

[noletime1995]

I was thinking the same thing on the the bonus of $9 Mil next year, yikes that would hurt big time.

[dbair1967]

Interesting to read some of the numbers being thrown about. Two-tiered bonus is something I hadn't considered. Not sure I agree with it, as I think a 9 million bonus would spark some cap issues. Spread it out over a few years, then I might be a little more agreeable.

Good find IR.

there is a reason why Jones might want to do this...the CBA will probably extend this yr, meaning that next yr when that 2nd bonus comes due it will prorate over a longer period of time, lowering his cap figure

David

[TheSkaven]

Dan Snyder likes using the tiered bonus structure. I guess basically the thought process behind it is it covers you in case something catastrophic happens that first year.
The two-tiered bonus also lowers the cap number for the first year. A six-year, $34mil contract with a $9mil year 1 and $7mil year two bonus would have a 2005 cap number of $4.8mil as opposed to $6.4mil (remember, signing bonuses are now calculated over 5 years only because of the uncapped year).

[WoodysGirl]

there is a reason why Jones might want to do this...the CBA will probably extend this yr, meaning that next yr when that 2nd bonus comes due it will prorate over a longer period of time, lowering his cap figure

David

I see thanks for 'splaining. I forget about the new CBA and its impact.

[Nors]

total bonuses of $16 million

And we pony up our #2, and Dat? Has Howard ever made a Pro Bowl?????
And Saints draft a DE over him in Will Smith? Why?
Wow, JJ you are about to be robbed! Dial 911

[ddh33]

I don't think there's any question that Dallas is the front runner. I haven't heard any conversation with any other teams being this involved.

I'm more interested in the fact that this article, once again, mentions the idea of a high draft pick AND defensive player.

[Mike 1967]

total bonuses of $16 million

And we pony up our #2, and Dat? Has Howard ever made a Pro Bowl?????
And Saints draft a DE over him in Will Smith? Why?
Wow, JJ you are about to be robbed! Dial 911

your just upset because this move would basically mean that our primary defensive set would be the 4-3 :D

[jksmith269]

The two-tiered bonus also lowers the cap number for the first year. A six-year, $34mil contract with a $9mil year 1 and $7mil year two bonus would have a 2005 cap number of $4.8mil as opposed to $6.4mil (remember, signing bonuses are now calculated over 5 years only because of the uncapped year).


where do you get the 4.8 and 6.4?

16mil over 5yrs is 3.2mil each year thats just bonus money.....and figuring he would have a salary of around 1mil thats only 4.2 this season with out even having a second teir bonus.......

if the 7mil this season bonus would break down to 1.4 and then his base salary again around 1mil that would be a hit of 2.4.....

Maybe there is something I'm missing if so please enlighten me..Thanks Jack

[Duane]

your just upset because this move would basically mean that our primary defensive set would be the 4-3 :D
We have a winner.

[Nors]

your just upset because this move would basically mean that our primary defensive set would be the 4-3 :D

Do your homework. :p: You realize that Howard played both DT and DE last year. That NO played some 3-4 with Howard as a DE. Howard played DT/DE at Kstate. He can play both 4-3 and 3-4 sets at 280. THIS IS NOT A SPEED EDGE GUY! I don't think most understand that. This guy is a slight cut better than Ellis.

Factor in Zimmy coaching and I am very concerned to give a 29 year old End a $35M Contract with $16M SB guaranteed.

[InmanRoshi]

your just upset because this move would basically mean that our primary defensive set would be the 4-3 :D

No he's upset because that is money that could be going to Ty Law.

[Mike 1967]

Do your homework. :p: You realize that Howard played both DT and DE last year. That NO played some 3-4 with Howard as a DE. Howard played DT/DE at Kstate. He can play both 4-3 and 3-4 sets at 280. THIS IS NOT A SPEED EDGE GUY! I don't think most understand that. This guy is a slight cut better than Ellis.

Factor in Zimmy coaching and I am very concerned to give a 29 year old End a $35M Contract with $16M SB guaranteed.

I'm just going off what I have been reading. The article at the beginning of this thread is stating that signing Howard all but gaurantee's that we will stick with the 4-3.

But I really don't know enough to have a worthwhile opinion on it.

You seem pretty knowledgeable on the 3-4........do you think Howard could fill the DE position in the 3-4 ?

[noletime1995]

I understand your concern, but what would you have Dallas do? Howard isn't a speed rusher...........so what? As long as he gets to the QB what difference does it make? Yes, it may be a fat contract, but I'd like to see how its structured before I complain. At least we have an owner willing to spend some jack to make us better.

let's also look at something else.......if we do trade for Howard, our DL will be sick against the run which could give us some flexibility with dropping our LB's into coverage if needed. If its just a 2nd rd pick I don't see your beef as far as compensation goes? I understand your concern over the contract, but they are two seperate items. If you want a DE with double digit sacks, you gotta pay for it. We're not gonna find one in the draft this year and BP won't be here much longer. We need a pass rush........NOW.

FWIW, I'd feel better about giving Howard $16 Mil than Rivera $9 Mil.......and that was before the back surgery.

[junk]

Do your homework. :p: You realize that Howard played both DT and DE last year. That NO played some 3-4 with Howard as a DE. Howard played DT/DE at Kstate. He can play both 4-3 and 3-4 sets at 280. THIS IS NOT A SPEED EDGE GUY! I don't think most understand that. This guy is a slight cut better than Ellis.

Factor in Zimmy coaching and I am very concerned to give a 29 year old End a $35M Contract with $16M SB guaranteed.

Last year you complained because the team left cash on the table, now they are ponying up and you are complaining again? Howard is a very solid DE who would do just fine with Glover, Ellis and Ferguson.

Yes, he could play both sets and I expect to see looks of both this year, but if the team gets Howard, you are looking at three of your four lineman probably being better suited towards the 4-3.

Factor in having a legitimate run stuffer in the middle and Zim becomes a lot less cautious with his pass rush as well.

I am usually all about fiscal responsibility, but when you get a chance for a top 10 player under 30 (he is only 28 and will be for a large portion of the season no matter how bad you want to add a year to his age), you have to do it.

[Mike 1967]

No he's upset because that is money that could be going to Ty Law.


:laugh2: :laugh1:

[Nors]

I understand your concern, but what would you have Dallas do? Howard isn't a speed rusher...........so what? As long as he gets to the QB what difference does it make? Yes, it may be a fat contract, but I'd like to see how its structured before I complain. At least we have an owner willing to spend some jack to make us better.

let's also look at something else.......if we do trade for Howard, our DL will be sick against the run which could give us some flexibility with dropping our LB's into coverage if needed. If its just a 2nd rd pick I don't see your beef as far as compensation goes? I understand your concern over the contract, but they are two seperate items. If you want a DE with double digit sacks, you gotta pay for it. We're not gonna find one in the draft this year and BP won't be here much longer. We need a pass rush........NOW.

FWIW, I'd feel better about giving Howard $16 Mil than Rivera $9 Mil.......and that was before the back surgery.

I just think 1) We are overpaying for an above average DE. 2) Compensation is Dat and our #2.

Just too much and why deal hasn't happened. After looking at his agents demands it won't happen either.

[Nors]

I'm just going off what I have been reading. The article at the beginning of this thread is stating that signing Howard all but gaurantee's that we will stick with the 4-3.

But I really don't know enough to have a worthwhile opinion on it.

You seem pretty knowledgeable on the 3-4........do you think Howard could fill the DE position in the 3-4 ?

Yes Howard can play 3 positions - very versatile. I read last night somewhere here that 8 of Howards sacks last year were from DT. He played DT some in college. At 280 I can see him playing both 4-3 and 3-4 DE. He was a Linebacker in High School.



Next years 3 and Al Singleton is my offer.

[Hiero]

Honestly the way its going and with the contract seeming so big i'd rather just draft a speed guy. I'd get merriman and put him at the de spot. and sign Plaxico who seems like he would be way cheaper and youngerthan Howard at this point. I think the howard negotiations are getting out of hand. Not that I dont like Howard but i really hope we dont give up too much.

[Cbz40]

your just upset because this move would basically mean that our primary defensive set would be the 4-3 :D


Nail on rhe head............... :D

[Cbz40]

No he's upset because that is money that could be going to Ty Law.


Another nail on the head............... :D

[Hostile]

Do your homework. :p: You realize that Howard played both DT and DE last year. That NO played some 3-4 with Howard as a DE. Howard played DT/DE at Kstate. He can play both 4-3 and 3-4 sets at 280. THIS IS NOT A SPEED EDGE GUY! I don't think most understand that. This guy is a slight cut better than Ellis.

Factor in Zimmy coaching and I am very concerned to give a 29 year old End a $35M Contract with $16M SB guaranteed.Said the man who has not done his homework.

Mike Zimmer was retained. That should have been clue #1 that a switch to a 3-4 was unlikely.

We passed on all the big name 3-4 LBs. Another good clue.

Jason Ferguson said he preferred to play in a 4-3 scheme and that played heavily in his decision to come here.

The writing has been on the wall. Turn on the light and check out the graffiti.

[junk]

Next years 3 and Al Singleton is my offer.

He is a young, quality DE coming off an 11 sack season, not a bag of footballs.

[big dog cowboy]

Said the man who has not done his homework.

Mike Zimmer was retained. That should have been clue #1 that a switch to a 3-4 was unlikely.

We passed on all the big name 3-4 LBs. Another good clue.

Jason Ferguson said he preferred to play in a 4-3 scheme and that played heavily in his decision to come here.

The writing has been on the wall. Turn on the light and check out the graffiti.
:lmao2:

[jksmith269]

The two-tiered bonus also lowers the cap number for the first year. A six-year, $34mil contract with a $9mil year 1 and $7mil year two bonus would have a 2005 cap number of $4.8mil as opposed to $6.4mil (remember, signing bonuses are now calculated over 5 years only because of the uncapped year).


I'm still wondering how you came up with these numbers...


where do you get the 4.8 and 6.4?

if we did the full 16mil over 5yrs is 3.2mil each year thats just bonus money.....and figuring he would have a salary of around 1mil thats only 4.2 this season with out even having a second teir bonus.......

if we did the split bonus with the 7mil this season bonus would break down to 1.4 and then his base salary again around 1mil that would be a hit of 2.4.....

Next season when the other part kicks in then the bonus cap hit would be 3.2 next season plus what ever his base salary is....

Maybe there is something I'm missing if so please enlighten me..Thanks Jack

[Nors]

Said the man who has not done his homework.

Mike Zimmer was retained. That should have been clue #1 that a switch to a 3-4 was unlikely. ZIMMER SUCKS, WE PLAYED SOME 3-4 LAST YEAR AND WILL DO SO MORE IN 2005.

We passed on all the big name 3-4 LBs. Another good clue. BELL RECEIVED $10M SB, HARTWELL SEARCHING FOR SAME - TOO MUCH $ NOTE SMALL LB DEXTER CUT.

Jason Ferguson said he preferred to play in a 4-3 scheme and that played heavily in his decision to come here. HE ALSO SAID HE HAS PLAYED 3-4. HE'LL PLAY WHERE PARCELLS TELLS HIM

The writing has been on the wall. Turn on the light and check out the graffiti. WHERE IS THE 4-3 ANNOUNCEMENT? THOUGHT SO, NOT MADE YET.

[dallasfaniac]

WHERE IS THE 4-3 ANNOUNCEMENT? THOUGHT SO, NOT MADE YET.

His source told him. You're not the only one with 'sources'. :rolleyes:

[M'Kevon]

WHERE IS THE 4-3 ANNOUNCEMENT? THOUGHT SO, NOT MADE YET.

And when was the 4-3 announcement made last year??

Hint: it wasn't.

[Hostile]

WHERE IS THE 4-3 ANNOUNCEMENT? THOUGHT SO, NOT MADE YET.Where's the 3-4 announcement?

Thought so, not made yet.

Not going to be either.


Psst. Did you notice I was able to say it without the all caps screaming tantrum? ;)

[Hostile]

And when was the 4-3 announcement made last year??

Hint: it wasn't.Ooh, good fact.

[jimmy40]

Where's the 3-4 announcement?

Thought so, not made yet.

Not going to be either.I don't care how many lineman or linebackers there are I just want them to be better than last year.

[Nors]

And when was the 4-3 announcement made last year??

Hint: it wasn't.
True but they added it to playbook, and used it some in 2004.
3-4 is coming and there is major speculation we move further to 3-4 in 2005! See Ferguson signing, lets watch draft.... Coakley cut.

JJ/BP have said decision is not made yet. Be carefull..... :D