W/Howard, Do we have the best front four?

[BLam11]

It is quickly looking like our front four may go from worst to first. If we add howard this would give us four all pro typ players on our front line.

[Howboutdemcowboys31]

Ide say second best. Ill give best to the Panthers

[ABQCOWBOY]

It is quickly looking like our front four may go from worst to first. If we add howard this would give us four all pro typ players on our front line.

No. IMO, Carolina has the best front 4 in all of football. Having said that, this is really a discussion that should consider the front 7, IMO. You can have great DLs but if you don't have a strong LB corp, you'll still have problems. The reverse is also true. JMO

[Everlastingxxx]

I dunno about the best, but probably the most expensive D-Line in the league.

[RoysAHitta]

ellis, glover, ferg, and howard.. thats definitely the best dline in the nfl to me.

[Doomsday101]

It is quickly looking like our front four may go from worst to first. If we add howard this would give us four all pro typ players on our front line.

I don't know if we would be the best but it sure would be fun to watch. And I hope we can get Howard within reason

[jbsg02]

It would certainly make a GREAT line and make the LB's and secondary look better

[Ashwynn]

It is quickly looking like our front four may go from worst to first. If we add howard this would give us four all pro typ players on our front line.

You could make an arguement. Though convincing everyone that its the best would be difficult. Its a relative conclusion, and that would be relative to each individual person. But for me, it would be the best line I have seen from the Boys since the mid 90's to early 90's. I would be tickled pink if we could trot that out there every sunday. :lombardi:

[Fletch]

We won't know until after several games whether we have the best front four in the NFL. Looks good on paper though.

[Chuck 54]

It is quickly looking like our front four may go from worst to first. If we add howard this would give us four all pro typ players on our front line.
ummm....no.

[es22]

It would certainly make a GREAT line and make the LB's and secondary look better

I definantely second the point. Only a pass ruch (ie DL) can improve our secondary. Ever since Haley retired, we haven't had a differencemaker on the DL. As a result, our CB's have coverred too much. If we get Howard, it will go a long way to determining if Henry & Newman are worth the cash.

[InmanRoshi]

I'd give the Panthers the edge on front 4.

But if we drafted Derrick Johnson at #11 to replace Coakley at weakside, we could have the best 4-3 front seven this time next year.

[mavsfan2121]

I think the difference between the 90's front 4 and this one is depth. I thought we had an extremely deep front 4 back in the 90's/ I guess since free agency you cant expect that but I would love to see us ad Hand as depth.

I think theoretically we have enough money to sign Howard, Tebucky Jones and Ed Hartwell and still pay our rookies.

Then draft Dj with the 11th pick

I know it would never happen but imagine a team with

Henry -----Jones------Williams-----Newman
--------DJ--------Nguyen-------Hartwell
---Howard----Ferguson---Glover--Ellis

You could easily argue that the weakest link is Nguyen who was easily one of our 3 best defenders last season.

I dont even think Zimmer could mess that up.

[RoysAHitta]

tebucky jones is a dolphin. and dj will be gone by #11.

[InmanRoshi]

And Hartwell is too slow to be anything other than a MLB.

[ABQCOWBOY]

And Hartwell is too slow to be anything other than a MLB.

I'm not so sure of that. I think Hartwell could play a Sam without too much problem.

[AJM1613]

I think you need one All-Pro type player before you say you have four.

It's still the Panthers and it's not even close...the Jets, Jaguars, and Dolphins also are better...

[InmanRoshi]

LeRoi Glover didn't make the Pro Bowl?

[AJM1613]

Pro Bowl is not the same as All Pro.

Also Hartwell is a big Trotter type middle linebacker...I really don't think he could play the outside.

And I would also tay our line from 1-10 than yours...does that count?

[InmanRoshi]

Career sacks per game ...

Panthers

Peppers - .68
Rucker - .42
Jenkins - .28
Buckner - .19

Average - .3925

Cowboys

Howard - .59
Glover - .53
Ellis - .41
Ferguson - .20

Average - .4325


Dolphins

Taylor - .65
Bowens - .21
Robinson (released, but I'll use his numbers anyway since there are a bunch of nobodies behind him) - .15
Zgonia - .15

Averge - .290

Jaguars

Hayward - .46
Henderson - .32
Stroud - .24
Favors - .15

Average - .2925

Jets

Abraham - .75
Ellis - .52
Robetson - .14
Reed - .06

Average - .3675

[Mike 1967]

As far as pass rush goes...

Career sacks per game ...

Panthers

Peppers - .68
Rucker - .42
Jenkins - .28
Buckner - .19

Average - .3925

Cowboys

Howard - .59
Glover - .53
Ellis - .41
Ferguson - .20

Average - .4325

Excellent ! Very good presentation of the facts.

The Panthers have also been playing together during that stretch which gives them an advantage. If a great player lines up with average players then that will effect his output in a negative way. Vice versa...numbers should be better if a great player lines up next to other great players.

So our line should have increased output since Ellis and Glover have been playing with half a line that was average to below average.

[Rack Bauer]

As far as pass rush goes...

Career sacks per game ...

Panthers

Peppers - .68
Rucker - .42
Jenkins - .28
Buckner - .19

Average - .3925

Cowboys

Howard - .59
Glover - .53
Ellis - .41
Ferguson - .20

Average - .4325


OMG, Dude. Please. DOn't give me any career sacks per game BS. The Panthers have the best DL in football and w/Howard we still aren't even close.

lol

The Cowboys blinders some of you wear make lmao sometimes. :laugh2:

[InmanRoshi]

OMG, Dude. Please. DOn't give me any career sacks per game BS. The Panthers have the best DL in football and w/Howard we still aren't even close.

lol

The Cowboys blinders some of you wear make lmao sometimes. :laugh2:

2 simple steps

Step 1: Take a Quaalude

Step 2: Look deeper into the thread where I said the Panthers have the best front 4 in football.

[BrAinPaiNt]

2 simple steps

Step 1: Take a Quaalude

Step 2: Look deeper into the thread where I said the Panthers have the best front 4 in football.


It's Valium...not Quaalude. ;)

One thing that has to be taken into account with the panthers (which I agree they have the best front four)...but I have to wonder what will happen with this steroid issue and the panthers....doubt much will be done but you never know, seems people are on a witch hunt over the whole steroid issue now.

[InmanRoshi]

It's Valium...not Quaalude. ;)

One thing that has to be taken into account with the panthers (which I agree they have the best front four)...but I have to wonder what will happen with this steroid issue and the panthers....doubt much will be done but you never know, seems people are on a witch hunt over the whole steroid issue now.

Panthers obviously aren't without their question marks as well. For one thing, Buckner is going be 34 this year. Second, Jenkins is coming off of shoulder reconstruction. Third, Rucker sack totals dropped from 12 in 2003 to 3.5 last year without Jenkins in the lineup, and a lot of people are wondering if he's was really that great or if his supporting cast has made him look better than he really is.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think the statistics posted earlier are a bit miss leading. I am a firm believer in the fact that you should really only compare players three years out. If a player has been great for 8 out of 10 years but he's on the down slide the last two, then numbers can be scewed.

If you look at all eight players over the last 3 years, you will see that the total number of sacks for each team is 77 Dallas (Ellis, Glover, Ferguson, Howard) compared to 77.5 for Carolina (Peppers, Rucker, Buckner and Jenkins). Further, you will see that the proposed front four of Dallas accounted for 635 tackles as opposed to 508 tackles for the Carolina starting front four.

This averages out to 25.66 sacks and 211.66 tackles per season for proposed Dallas line. Carolina would break out to 25.83 sacks per and 169.33 tackles. The kicker here is that these totals were compiled off a total 176 total games played by the proposed Dallas front four in comparison to 165 by Carolina's. Basically, 11 more games played for the proposed Dallas front four.

Basically, you make numbers kinda represent anything you want. In the final annalysis, Pepper, Jenkins, Rucker and Buckner scare me way more then Ellis, Howard, Ferguson and Glover do. JMO

[Chocolate Lab]

"Best", or Top-Whatever Ranking, I don't know... But it would be darn good. And for sure the best we've seen in a long time.

And for all the talk of sacks, that line would play the run very well, too. That's one thing I like about Howard -- he's not just a one-dimensional pass rusher who gets Sportcenter time but is useless on run downs.

[silver]

ellis, glover, ferg, and howard.. thats definitely the best dline in the nfl to me.

not one of them is in the same league with Peppers.

[zagnut]

Pro Bowl is not the same as All Pro.

Also Hartwell is a big Trotter type middle linebacker...I really don't think he could play the outside.

And I would also tay our line from 1-10 than yours...does that count?

La'Roi Glover

* Starter in the last 5 Pro Bowls
* 2003: 2nd team All-Pro -- AP
* 2002: 1st team All-Pro -- College & Pro Football Newsweekly, Pro Football Weekly and The Sporting News.
* 2000: 1st team consensus All-Pro honors and NFL Alumni Defensive Lineman of the Year. 2nd most sacks by a DT ever.

It's ok. Most Cowboys fans don't realize he's great either.

I do think the Eagles have the deepest crew of DTs in the NFL.

[Erik_H]

I'd have to give it to Carolina. Even with Howard, there's the issue of getting them familiar with each other and hoping each plays to their potential.

Ask yourself if you thought the Jets had the best Dline in Football last year.

If think that line was very similiar (talent-wise) to what we would have with Howard Here.

The Jets were:

LDE: S.Ellis- Sean Ellis is a very similar player to our Greg Ellis, expect he's got some more sacks.

NT: Ferguson- Well, same guy, pretty even I'd think.;)

DT: Robinson- Now Robertson seriously came on the second half of the season. I don't know if he compares to Glover at this point, but taking age into account, I'd give em equal value at least.

RDE: John Abraham, he's right up there in top flight DE's. In free agency speculations earlier this year, Howard came up many time's as 'on par' with Abraham.


I think looking at the Jet's Dline performance last year is a fairly decent gauge as to what we should [i]hope[i/] for.

[AJM1613]

La'Roi Glover

* Starter in the last 5 Pro Bowls
* 2003: 2nd team All-Pro -- AP
* 2002: 1st team All-Pro -- College & Pro Football Newsweekly, Pro Football Weekly and The Sporting News.
* 2000: 1st team consensus All-Pro honors and NFL Alumni Defensive Lineman of the Year. 2nd most sacks by a DT ever.

It's ok. Most Cowboys fans don't realize he's great either.

I do think the Eagles have the deepest crew of DTs in the NFL.

I know he's a good tackle and I know he was "great" but right now he's not an All Pro and I don't think he's been playing at an All Pro level the past two seasons.

Oh and in response to an earlier post, the Dolphins have Kevin Carter and I think they still have Larry Chester unless I missed something.