Kirwan on 3-4, Draft and Dallas

[Nors]

Teams using 3-4 might struggle to fill needs


By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst


(March 15, 2005) -- The popular opinion a month before the NFL draft is that there is no clear-cut No. 1 prospect worthy of the spot.

Time will tell if that is true. With two quarterbacks, an excellent wide receiver, three premier running backs and maybe even a top corner, a top candidate will emerge.

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If I were involved with the 49ers and considering trading out of the top spot -- which, by the way, every team that has ever held the top spot has considered doing somewhere along in the process -- I also would start negotiations with a number of the top prospects and let them know there is no way my team enters the draft without my pick signed. The pressure might appear to be on the club because there is no Eli Manning or Michael Vick in this draft, but it is also on the players. If one of them wants to jump over the other athletes and become the top pick in the NFL, he will step up and make a deal.

So the logjam at the top can be sorted out with some early negotiations. But there is another log jam brewing in this draft, and it's worth looking at as the free-agent market starts to slow down.

The top three teams in this draft -- San Francisco, Miami and Cleveland, as well as Dallas at No. 11 -- all are considering a switch to the 3-4 defense. That means they all are looking for the same type of players for their front seven. The Chargers (No. 12) and the Texans (No. 13) also use a 3-4 and are looking to bolster their defenses. Six of the top 13 teams drafting have 3-4 defense on their minds, but not all of them are going to be able to satisfy their need for defensive talent.

Big, two-gap defensive linemen; big, strong inside linebackers who can play over guards; and outside linebackers who can rush the passer from a two-point stance are out there in this draft, but the supply of quality players is far from a bottomless pit. Compounding the restrictions on that particular talent pool is there are few free agents available who have played in a 3-4 defense. Teams starting from scratch have got to secure enough talent in the draft or the experiment is doomed to failure.

As Bill Parcells said to me two weeks ago when we discussed the 3-4 and 4-3 packages, "One of the two packages has to be the foundation, and it's not wise to get into one if you don't have the personnel to do it."


Linebacker Matt Stewart has gone from one 3-4 defense in Atlanta to another in Cleveland.

Romeo Crennel and Nick Saban might both be thought of as Bill Belichick disciples, but never forget that Belichick comes from the Parcells school of defense. In the end, all of these teams are looking for the same type of players. Will there be enough for the 49ers, Dolphins, Browns and Cowboys to switch? Will there be enough for the Texans and Chargers to improve?

Let's take a look at the teams at the top of this draft with 3-4 aspirations and see if they have the critical nose tackle; the big, two-gap defensive ends; the inside linebacker to meet force with force when the uncovered guard comes out at him; and, of course, the outside linebacker who can have the impact on the pass rush like Lawrence Taylor did back in Parcells' glory days with the Giants.

The secondary concerns remain the same no matter which front the team plays, so the construction concerns are all about the front seven players. The nose tackle should be in the 330-pound range (i.e. Ted Washington), the outside linebacker needs to have great pass rush skills and some pass coverage skills (i.e. Mike Vrabel), the inside linebacker needs to be close to 6-foot-3 and 250 pounds (i.e. Ted Johnson) and the defensive ends need to be close to 6-5 and 300 pounds (i.e. Richard Seymour).

NOTE: *=POSITION CHANGE and there is some risk he can't do it.
?=does not meet the height/weight requirement.




Team NT OLBs 2-gap DEs ILBs
SF ?*Anthony Adams
Issac Sopoaga Julian Peterson
*Andre Carter John Engelberger
*Bryant Young *Derrick Smith



San Francisco's nose tackle (Adams) is barely 6 feet tall; Sopoaga (6-2, 320) is more the type. Carter played with his hand on the ground before this, so there is an adjustment. But he and Peterson have 46 career sacks between them, which far outweighs the other teams. Smith has played his whole career in a 4-3 defense and will have to learn how to take on guards. The defensive ends are undersized and are known more for their one-gap quickness. Overall, the Niners need better defensive ends and a better strong inside linebacker to make the conversion successful if they decide to do it.




Team NT OLBs 2-gap DEs ILBs
MIA *Larry Chester
*Tim Bowens *Jason Taylor
*Donnie Spragan *Kevin Carter
*Vonnie Holliday



The Dolphins have a long way to go if they plan on lining up in a 3-4 defense any time soon. Chester and Bowens are big enough and could hold up the nose tackle position in a rotation but it's a mighty expensive tandem. Like Andre Carter, Taylor would have to take his hand off the ground but he is athletic enough to do it. Taylor can produce the sacks and pass pressure but Spragen has one sack in six years. Kevin Carter and Holliday recently signed on with the Dolphins and are big enough, but both come from a 4-3 scheme. Finally, Thomas can play the weak-inside-linebacker spot, but they need a big, strong-side backer if they want to ever look at this scheme. I don't think this is the place to throw Junior Seau's name at this point in his career.




Team NT OLBs 2-gap DEs ILBs
CLE Jason Fisk Chaun Thompson
Ben Taylor Orpheus Roye
Kenard Lang Brandt Boyer
Matt Stewart



Cleveland recently signed Fisk, who was the backup nose tackle for the Chargers, and he can "hold the fort" for Crennel. The outside linebackers have 2½ career sacks between them; that's not good enough for this package. The defensive ends have the size and, at this point in their careers, probably will play better in this scheme than in a four-man front, where quickness is a bigger requirement. They need a big inside linebacker. The Browns can line up in a 3-4 but they need playmakers at the linebacker spots.




Team NT OLBs 2-gap DEs ILBs
DAL Jason Ferguson Al Singleton
Bradie James Greg Ellis
La'Roi Glover



The Cowboys solved the nose tackle position in free agency. Parcells' 3-4 always has generated lots of pressure from the outside linebackers, but James and Singleton have only 3½ sacks between them in their careers. Lawrence Taylor got that in one game on occasion. Glover and Ellis aren't the prototypical defensive ends, but they can do it if Dallas heads in this direction. Like Thomas in Miami, Dat Nguyen can play weak inside backer, but he can't line up over the guard and win very often. These coaches know what they need if they go through with the transition from 4-3 to 3-4, but the question remains: Can they get enough talent in the draft if they have to use a few picks on offense for other problems and their 3-4 competitors are grabbing all the talent?

This "logjam" might get resolved by a team or two turning back on the plan and sticking with a 4-3 scheme for another year. As for the few remaining free agents who can help, look to a pair of Ravens free agents -- LB Edgerton Hartwell and DE Marques Douglas -- and maybe Rams LB Tommy Polley (as an outside LB), recently cut Texans LB Jay Foreman and Colts LB Rob Morris as guys who could line up and give you a chance. If any of the top three teams use their first-round pick on the offensive side of the ball -- and they all might do it -- the Cowboys, with two picks in the first round, could come away with two terrific outside linebackers or a linebacker and a defensive end. If Parcells ever got out of the first two rounds with players like Marcus Spears, Derrick Johnson and Darryl Blackstock, the groundwork would be done to build his 3-4.

[BrAinPaiNt]

If Parcells ever got out of the first two rounds with players like Marcus Spears, Derrick Johnson and Darryl Blackstock, the groundwork would be done to build his 3-4.


The quote should read....

If Parcells ever got out of the first two rounds with players like Marcus Spears, Derrick Johnson and Darryl Blackstock....we should all get on our knees and kiss his butt while pigs fly out of it.

Hard to see us getting those three, but I would be a happy camper if we did.

[AsthmaField]

We should very easily get out of the first two rounds with a couple of players who are able to play the 3-4.

Spears, Merriman, Ware, Blackstock all would fit. S. Cody from USC would be a fine fit at DE as would T. Johnson from Fla. St. Even Tuck or Pollack would do nicely.

After seeing the numbers Pollack put up in the change of direction drills at the combine, I think he'd do well at OLB.

[ABQCOWBOY]

The quote should read....

If Parcells ever got out of the first two rounds with players like Marcus Spears, Derrick Johnson and Darryl Blackstock....we should all get on our knees and kiss his butt while pigs fly out of it.

Hard to see us getting those three, but I would be a happy camper if we did.

First it was talk of sheep outfits and now it's all about butt kissing and pig flying. What is the hidden message your trying to get acrossed BP?


I'm worried about you.


LOL

[BrAinPaiNt]

First it was talk of sheep outfits and now it's all about butt kissing and pig flying. What is the hidden message your trying to get acrossed BP?


I'm worried about you.


LOL


I thought my secret was safe with you....didn't you say you were a rancher with many animals?

:p: ;)

[ABQCOWBOY]

I thought my secret was safe with you....didn't you say you were a rancher with many animals?

:p: ;)

LOL....


No, I said I have to be careful of ranchers with many animals were I to wear a suggested Sheep Suit to the Regionals.


LOL.............................

[blindzebra]

Here is the key line:


As Bill Parcells said to me two weeks ago when we discussed the 3-4 and 4-3 packages, "One of the two packages has to be the foundation, and it's not wise to get into one if you don't have the personnel to do it."


We don't have the personnel and we are SEVERAL players away from having it.

We DO HAVE THE PERSONNEL for the 4-3.

[Alexander]

Here is the key line:


As Bill Parcells said to me two weeks ago when we discussed the 3-4 and 4-3 packages, "One of the two packages has to be the foundation, and it's not wise to get into one if you don't have the personnel to do it."


We don't have the personnel and we are SEVERAL players away from having it.

We DO HAVE THE PERSONNEL for the 4-3.

If we acquire the services of Howard, then we have the personnel for the 4-3 and that seals the deal for the length of the contract he would sign for.

As it stands right now, we have 3/7ths of the 3-4; 4/7ths of the 4-3.

It could still go either way.

[ABQCOWBOY]

If we acquire the services of Howard, then we have the personnel for the 4-3 and that seals the deal for the length of the contract he would sign for.

As it stands right now, we have 3/7ths of the 3-4; 4/7ths of the 4-3.

It could still go either way.

I don't agree with this assesment at all. If we never signed Howard or another DE, we would have the personel to play a 43 this year. I think that maybe 3 of the seven current starters are fits for a 34.

[Doomsday101]

I don't agree with this assesment at all. If we never signed Howard or another DE, we would have the personel to play a 43 this year. I think that maybe 3 of the seven current starters are fits for a 34.

True and the only DL man who is suited for the 3-4 is Ferguson. None of the other Ellis and Glover are not natural 3-4 starters or Howard if signed.

[StateCollegeCowboy]

Another good Kirwin article. He rarely puts out a bad article, because they are always indepth and thoughtout. I wish there were more writers like him out there.

[ABQCOWBOY]

True and the only DL man who is suited for the 3-4 is Ferguson. None of the other Ellis and Glover are not natural 3-4 starters or Howard if signed.

Square pegs and round holes to be sure. I think a lot of people bank on the fact that because Ellis and Glover have the measurables, they will fit a 34 without a problem. I would not make that assumption. Put that together with the fact that Zimmer doesn't know the 34 and I think you have problems. Parcells may know the 34 but being a HC, the OC and the DC is a great deal to ask of anybody.

[Alexander]

I don't agree with this assesment at all. If we never signed Howard or another DE, we would have the personel to play a 43 this year. I think that maybe 3 of the seven current starters are fits for a 34.

With Ogbogu at RDE?

With Bradie James at ROLB?

We may have the personnel to play it, but it is not good personnel.

[Doomsday101]

Square pegs and round holes to be sure. I think a lot of people bank on the fact that because Ellis and Glover have the measurables, they will fit a 34 without a problem. I would not make that assumption. Put that together with the fact that Zimmer doesn't know the 34 and I think you have problems. Parcells may know the 34 but being a HC, the OC and the DC is a great deal to ask of anybody.

Square peg and round hole is a perfect description. Why would I want to take Glover and Ellis and move them into position they have not played and are not really suited for? Even Ferguson has indicated that he too prefers the 4-3 defense granted in large part because it allows him to be more of a play maker at DT than he would be at NT where he would be taking on the double teams all the time. Myself I like the ideal of having a front 4 of Ellis, Glover, Ferguson and Howard (if we can reach a deal) I think that would make for very good front 4

[StateCollegeCowboy]

True and the only DL man who is suited for the 3-4 is Ferguson. None of the other Ellis and Glover are not natural 3-4 starters or Howard if signed.

Yea, It is pretty obvious the 4-3 will be our base defense this year with the 3-4 mixed in. The question becomes will we have gathered enough players this year to help take that next step to the 3-4 the following year. I can't see Bill making a switch during his last year here. There are always problems during the year of transition as the players get comfortable with the scheme. Is that how Bill wants to finish his last year here or will he plan to stay longer?

On another note, with or without the Howard trade, I see us taking at least 1 offensive player with a pick in the first two rounds.

[Doomsday101]

Yea, It is pretty obvious the 4-3 will be our base defense this year with the 3-4 mixed in. The question becomes will we have gathered enough players this year to help take that next step to the 3-4 the following year. I can't see Bill making a switch during his last year here. There are always problems during the year of transition as the players get comfortable with the scheme. Is that how Bill wants to finish his last year here or will he plan to stay longer?

On another note, with or without the Howard trade, I see us taking at least 1 offensive player with a pick in the first two rounds.

Frankly I don't know if that switch will ever be made, who is to say that Dallas will become a base 3-4 defense? Yes Dallas has talked about it but nothing has ever been set in stone. I do think we will see Dallas run some 3-4 and I think you will see others do so as well because of the Pats and their success and we all know this is a copy cat league

[ABQCOWBOY]

With Ogbogu at RDE?

With Bradie James at ROLB?

We may have the personnel to play it, but it is not good personnel.

IMO, I think Thornton is the RDE and I think he will eventually turn out to be a pretty good one. As for Bradie, well, Bradie is going to be a LB in either the 43 or the 34. Take your pick. Do you want him to be a bad LB in a 43, scheme he has played his whole life or in a 34, a scheme he has never played in and would have to learn?

Besides, I think a LB is in our future in this upcoming draft. Either way you slice it, we're much better suited, at this point in time, to play a 43.

[blindzebra]

If we acquire the services of Howard, then we have the personnel for the 4-3 and that seals the deal for the length of the contract he would sign for.

As it stands right now, we have 3/7ths of the 3-4; 4/7ths of the 4-3.

It could still go either way.

4-3 PROVEN players:

Ellis, Glover, Ferguson, Dat, Singleton.

We also have Carson, Coleman, Ogbogu, and James who all played and/or started at some point last year.

3-4 PROVEN players:

Ferguson and maybe Dat who played 3-4 in college.

An honest look says we have 5/7ths of a PROVEN 4-3 and 1/7th of a 3-4 with big ???? with Glover and Ellis playing out of position and no proven 3-4 LBs.

[Alexander]

IMO, I think Thornton is the RDE and I think he will eventually turn out to be a pretty good one.

What gives you this opinion?

I saw him make some nice plays late in preseason games but I would stop short of saying he is going to be able to be a fully functioning right end and a good one. He is a curiousity but hardly someone we should be counting on to produce.

As for Bradie, well, Bradie is going to be a LB in either the 43 or the 34. Take your pick. Do you want him to be a bad LB in a 43, scheme he has played his whole life or in a 34, a scheme he has never played in and would have to learn?

He has played inside in the 3-4 at LSU and pretty poorly at that. Come to think of it he did not play that well outside for us last season either.

Besides, I think a LB is in our future in this upcoming draft. Either way you slice it, we're much better suited, at this point in time, to play a 43.

The linebackers are poor either way you go. The line is better off 4-3 but unless we get a quality end we might as well bite the bullet and go for the gusto of the 3-4 if that is what Coach Parcells wants to do. We can get a rush linebacker, run stuffing end and inside LB pretty easily in the draft.

[Alexander]

An honest look says we have 5/7ths of a PROVEN 4-3 and 1/7th of a 3-4 with big ???? with Glover and Ellis playing out of position and no proven 3-4 LBs.

If this is indeed the case and Ellis and Glover were just terrible fits, why even start the discussion of going to the 3-4?

Coach Parcells is not stupid. I feel he thought it out and would give it a shot with one or both of the two. Either that or all us Monday Morning QBs are right and he has been lying the whole time.

[Doomsday101]

If this is indeed the case and Ellis and Glover were just terrible fits, why even start the discussion of going to the 3-4?

Coach Parcells is not stupid. I feel he thought it out and would give it a shot with one or both of the two. Either that or all us Monday Morning QBs are right and he has been lying the whole time.

Parcells has never stated that we would go to the 3-4, yes he has talked about it but he has never indicated that it would happen. If Dallas does get Howard then no I don't think we move to the 3-4 as a base defense.

[blindzebra]

What gives you this opinion?

I saw him make some nice plays late in preseason games but I would stop short of saying he is going to be able to be a fully functioning right end and a good one. He is a curiousity but hardly someone we should be counting on to produce.



He has played inside in the 3-4 at LSU and pretty poorly at that. Come to think of it he did not play that well outside for us last season either.



The linebackers are poor either way you go. The line is better off 4-3 but unless we get a quality end we might as well bite the bullet and go for the gusto of the 3-4 if that is what Coach Parcells wants to do. We can get a rush linebacker, run stuffing end and inside LB pretty easily in the draft.

Where is the logic?

We are 2 players away from a solid 4-3 with the Howard trade in the works and 2 first rd picks or we have 3 picks in the top 42.

We are best case 4 players away from a solid 3-4...I'd say 5 or 6...with the same 3 picks in the top 42.

So we should just go for it and force pro bowl level 4-3 players into a 3-4 with a bunch of unproven, low draft picks and UDFA at LB, just for spits and grins. :rolleyes:

[Nors]

Another good Kirwin article. He rarely puts out a bad article, because they are always indepth and thoughtout. I wish there were more writers like him out there.
agree - he's one of the best at this

[StateCollegeCowboy]

Where is the logic?

We are 2 players away from a solid 4-3 with the Howard trade in the works and 2 first rd picks or we have 3 picks in the top 42.

We are best case 4 players away from a solid 3-4...I'd say 5 or 6...with the same 3 picks in the top 42.

So we should just go for it and force pro bowl level 4-3 players into a 3-4 with a bunch of unproven, low draft picks and UDFA at LB, just for spits and grins. :rolleyes:

The more "non-actions" I see out of our front office about heading towards the 3-4 full time, makes me think that it is more smoke and mirrors to help confuse other teams into thinking what we are going to do during FA and the draft.

I don't see the 3-4 coming here this year as our base defense.

[blindzebra]

If this is indeed the case and Ellis and Glover were just terrible fits, why even start the discussion of going to the 3-4?

Coach Parcells is not stupid. I feel he thought it out and would give it a shot with one or both of the two. Either that or all us Monday Morning QBs are right and he has been lying the whole time.

Lies coming from Valley Ranch?

You mean like we are not making any more coaching changes right before a couple of coaches get whacked?

You mean like we are not going to look at FA QBs right before we signed Bledsoe?

Look at the actions and not the words.

Glover is a pro bowler, Ellis and Dat have both been consistently near pro bowl level.

We signed Ferguson who has been playing the 4-3 for the Jets.

We have not looked at any FA LBs.

We are trying to trade for Howard.

HELLO! ;)

[StateCollegeCowboy]

Lies coming from Valley Ranch?

You mean like we are not making any more coaching changes right before a couple of coaches get whacked?

You mean like we are not going to look at FA QBs right before we signed Bledsoe?

Look at the actions and not the words.

Glover is a pro bowler, Ellis and Dat have both been consistently near pro bowl level.

We signed Ferguson who has been playing the 4-3 for the Jets.

We have not looked at any FA LBs.

We are trying to trade for Howard.

HELLO! ;)


Well said. :)

[Nors]

Where is the logic?

We are 2 players away from a solid 4-3 with the Howard trade in the works and 2 first rd picks or we have 3 picks in the top 42.

We are best case 4 players away from a solid 3-4...I'd say 5 or 6...with the same 3 picks in the top 42.

So we should just go for it and force pro bowl level 4-3 players into a 3-4 with a bunch of unproven, low draft picks and UDFA at LB, just for spits and grins. :rolleyes:
Yeagh that 4-3 bowled em over last year.....
Fergoson was the vital move. Kirwan knows football, Glover can play a 3-4 DE. Its all about the LB's. WE ADD THE 3 PLAYERS HE MENTIONED AND its base 3-4 and we keep 4-3 looks as well. Diversity and makes team better.

Where's that Howard trade?
pffffttttt
The sound of the air going out of that baloon!

[Alexander]

Parcells has never stated that we would go to the 3-4, yes he has talked about it but he has never indicated that it would happen. If Dallas does get Howard then no I don't think we move to the 3-4 as a base defense.

Howard seals the deal, no question about that.

[StateCollegeCowboy]

WE ADD THE 3 PLAYERS HE MENTIONED

That is a really BIG if Nors, which is why I think we stick with the 4-3 this year. That would be a great draft but very unlikely that all 3 fall to our draft positions respectively.

[Doomsday101]

Lies coming from Valley Ranch?

You mean like we are not making any more coaching changes right before a couple of coaches get whacked?

You mean like we are not going to look at FA QBs right before we signed Bledsoe?

Look at the actions and not the words.

Glover is a pro bowler, Ellis and Dat have both been consistently near pro bowl level.

We signed Ferguson who has been playing the 4-3 for the Jets.

We have not looked at any FA LBs.

We are trying to trade for Howard.

HELLO! ;)

Very good!!! As important as LB'ers are in the 3-4 you would have thought Dallas would have made a lot of calls on some of the FA LB yet we did not talk with any of them (or at least it was never reported) a team with their sights set on the 3-4 would not do that and Parcells reluctance to start a rookie would at least indicate that we will continue to run the base 4-3.

[Cbz40]

What has Parcells done this offseason to indicate we are going 3/4?

We have have not had one LB in for a visit.

We did not retain Dex and it has been rumored we may include Dat in the Howard trade.......that's it.

We will show some 3/4 but I would bet we are staying with the 4/3 as our base D.

[Alexander]

Where is the logic?

We are 2 players away from a solid 4-3 with the Howard trade in the works and 2 first rd picks or we have 3 picks in the top 42.

We are best case 4 players away from a solid 3-4...I'd say 5 or 6...with the same 3 picks in the top 42.

So we should just go for it and force pro bowl level 4-3 players into a 3-4 with a bunch of unproven, low draft picks and UDFA at LB, just for spits and grins. :rolleyes:

I am not campaigning for the complete switch.

But either Coach Parcells thinks the rest of the NFL is perhaps the dumbest opponents in the world and they would fall for this mind trick that or there is some reason why it was discussed.

Up until this Howard trade issue erupted we were unsure.

And until this trade either happens or dies out we are still not sure.

When both Jones and Coach Parcells state they would let the offseason dictate which way they would go I believe them. Much more than some fellow on a message board who tells me to use his brand of "logic".

If everyone were so sure that Ellis and Glover were poor fits why would we bother to float our false rumor to trick people? Would the rest of the NFL not have your keen sense of logic to sniff it out? Or do Coach and Jones appear to be bored poker players with nothing better to say? Or would it be a terrible waste of time and energy since you have made it so obvious that it is impossible for either Glover or Ellis to fit? Nevermind Kirwin who has been an NFL executive before who says it could be a possibility. You have summed it up nicely for everyone.

[joseephuss]

Yeagh that 4-3 bowled em over last year.....
Fergoson was the vital move. Kirwan knows football, Glover can play a 3-4 DE. Its all about the LB's. WE ADD THE 3 PLAYERS HE MENTIONED AND its base 3-4 and we keep 4-3 looks as well. Diversity and makes team better.

Where's that Howard trade?
pffffttttt
The sound of the air going out of that baloon!

A 3-4 this past season would have been worse. Signing Howard will probably put the team in a base 4-3 with the versatility to also play some 3-4. Let's just all agree that Dallas should bring in good players to help play good defense.

[ddh33]

I still feel the same way about this that I always did. I don't care what scheme they run as long as they start getting some pressure.

[Doomsday101]

I still feel the same way about this that I always did. I don't care what scheme they run as long as they start getting some pressure.

amen!!!

[Alexander]

What has Parcells done this offseason to indicate we are going 3/4?

We have have not had one LB in for a visit.

We also had talks with Bryan Robinson, who could be a 3-4 end.

It could also be that we were not impressed with any of the linebackers in free agency.

We did not retain Dex and it has been rumored we may include Dat in the Howard trade.......that's it.

We will show some 3/4 but I would bet we are staying with the 4/3 as our base D.

But it is interesting how opinion changes with the wind.

At first, the Coakley release was supposed to indicate it was because he was not a good fit for the 3-4. The reality was money. Or was it both?

None of us know a thing until everything unfolds.

We don't know what the "truth" is no matter how much logic and supposition we put into it.

But yet some feel the need to assure people their particular perspective is right.

[Alexander]

I still feel the same way about this that I always did. I don't care what scheme they run as long as they start getting some pressure.

Very true brother.

But there seems to be several agendas (or "theories") floating around. And both sides want to prove themselves as somehow "right". Incredibly entertaining but also sad at the same time.

[DallasEast]

He (James) has played inside in the 3-4 at LSU and pretty poorly at that. Come to think of it he did not play that well outside for us last season either.Admittedly, James has struggled to find his identity in Zimmer's defense (and who hasn't?). But you're referring to his LSU days???

Bradie James...

All-American first-team: The Sporting News...
All-American first team: American Football Coaches Association...
Butkus Award semi-finalist...
Lombardi Award semi-finalist...
All-SEC first-team...
Associated Press All-SEC first team...
LSU single-season tackle record holder 154/83 solos (2002 season)...

That Bradie James???

Maybe it's the LSU fan in me.

Anyway, he played MLB only during his senior year. He played WLB his freshman, sophomore and junior seasons.



Bradie James, huh??? :eek:

[Alexander]

That Bradie James???

Maybe it's the LSU fan in me.

I would certainly say so.

[DallasEast]

I would certainly say so.His peers at LSU, around the SEC, fans and the media don't share your opinion, but that's cool.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yea, It is pretty obvious the 4-3 will be our base defense this year with the 3-4 mixed in. The question becomes will we have gathered enough players this year to help take that next step to the 3-4 the following year. I can't see Bill making a switch during his last year here. There are always problems during the year of transition as the players get comfortable with the scheme. Is that how Bill wants to finish his last year here or will he plan to stay longer?

On another note, with or without the Howard trade, I see us taking at least 1 offensive player with a pick in the first two rounds.

If Howard is signed, then I really don't see us making a move to a 34 at all. In truth, I doubt we will either way. Glover is getting older. I personally have never felt as though he would be a good fit at DE but hey, it's my opinion and not always shared. If we don't make this move this year, I think we don't make it at all. Ellis is a 43 DE, Glover is a 3 technique DT. It is asking a lot for them to make a move to a 34 at this stage of there careers.

[ABQCOWBOY]

What gives you this opinion?

I saw him make some nice plays late in preseason games but I would stop short of saying he is going to be able to be a fully functioning right end and a good one. He is a curiousity but hardly someone we should be counting on to produce.



He has played inside in the 3-4 at LSU and pretty poorly at that. Come to think of it he did not play that well outside for us last season either.



The linebackers are poor either way you go. The line is better off 4-3 but unless we get a quality end we might as well bite the bullet and go for the gusto of the 3-4 if that is what Coach Parcells wants to do. We can get a rush linebacker, run stuffing end and inside LB pretty easily in the draft.

I think you are entitled to your opinion about Thornton and if you feel as if Thornton will not amount to much, then so be it. As for me, I have watched Thorton play since his UT days and one thing he has always been able to do is get pressure. He is young and has a great deal to learn but he has the natural skills to become a good pass rusher. He has already shown this. You do not have to take my word for it but rather Parcells opinions. His opinions of Thornton are good. He has said as much. You suggested that Ogbogo (sp) would play RDE for us and I am simply saying that if we make no other aquasitions at RDE, I believe Thornton will see more time there and ultimatly, become the pass rush specialist at RDE. It is an opinion but I think there is basis for it.

As far as James is concerned, I don't recall LSU playing a 34 but I could be wrong. If you say they did, then so be it. As I recall, the front four in a 43 was Lavalais, Spears, Hill and Dawson, I believe. The 34 thing I don't remember but having said that, James was not an ISLB as I recall. He was an OLB in a 43 until his senior year. He was forced to play MLB due to injury and as a result, slipped in the draft. Had he come out early, he probably would have been taken earlier as an OLB. Never the less, James is having issues making the transition. I think this year will tell the tale but I doubt he plays in the middle in either scheme.

I agree with some of the others. We go 34 and we have to bring in more people. We also deligate large contracts in Ellis and Glover to DE positions. Basically, none impact players in a 34. Why would we pay lots of money for guys we could bring in on the cheap to man these positions? Just doesn't make sense to me.