No A&M/Baylor thread... really?? [Archive] - Dallas Cowboys Forum

windward

10-15-2011, 03:52 PM

Baylor literally has the worst defense I've ever seen. A&M has a bad defense but good Lord, 681 yads of offense in a game between two BCS conference teams?

Also, Robert Griffin is really really really good. Gets rattled by sacks bigtime, though.

What's your take on Tannehill?

The30YardSlant

10-15-2011, 03:59 PM

What's your take on Tannehill?

He's a really good college QB for a team like A&M with a good O-Line and running game but doesnt have the arm strength to be more than a backup in the NFL IMO. His mobility and ability as a receiver as well will make him and attractive late round pick for somebody, though.

TheCoolFan

10-15-2011, 04:17 PM

At least A&M can get sacks and stop the run. That will keep their offense in games to win it. Baylor just gets carved up left and right, they're like the new Mike Leach Era Texas Tech.

Griffin needs to improve his pocket presence. I know his OLine wasn't doing him any favors but he doesn't seem to have a feel for when to get rid of the ball/escape the pocket. It just shows that just being fast doesn't mean everything in being able to escape pressure. Once he learns that phase of the game, he will be more of a complete QB :bow:

Chocolate Lab

10-15-2011, 05:25 PM

Heh... I almost posted this exact thread earlier. After all the Aikbach/30yardslant fights I thought it would be a given. The first part of the game was pretty close.

Aikbach

10-16-2011, 02:53 PM

i didn't get to watch the game, it's been a somber week, death in the family Wednesday. Baylor D was bad as expected, i expected a shootout and appears was right for 3 quarters.

UnoDallas

10-17-2011, 01:16 AM

by by Hiesman like he ever really had a chance any way

throws for 400 yards an still loses

what did Ark do Casey threw for 540 yards an won the game

wonder who carries a clip board longer in the big leagues

my money is on well you know

Ren

10-17-2011, 06:44 AM

A&M is just the better overall team. Going through those early struggles/collapses will set them up for a strong finish to the season. Baylor will finish with 7 or 8 wins...they're still a year away from being able to do some big things in the conference.

I don't think Baylor is a year away from anything, without RG3 they'd just be the same old Baylor. He makes an awful team average and that's about as good as that team is capable of getting

Doomsday101

10-17-2011, 10:03 AM

I don't think Baylor is a year away from anything, without RG3 they'd just be the same old Baylor. He makes an awful team average and that's about as good as that team is capable of getting

I would disagree. I think Art Briles offense will give Baylor a chance just as it did Houston Cougars. I don't expect them winning NC but I think he can help make them competitive.

Doomsday101

10-17-2011, 10:04 AM

I will say that win for Texas A&M keeps them in the running for a decent bowl game. A loss would have pretty much killed any hope.

The30YardSlant

10-17-2011, 11:22 AM

I would disagree. I think Art Briles offense will give Baylor a chance just as it did Houston Cougars. I don't expect them winning NC but I think he can help make them competitive.

Briles' Houston teams wouldnt have been more than average in the Big XII

Doomsday101

10-17-2011, 11:25 AM

Briles' Houston teams wouldnt have been more than average in the Big XII

then that is still better than what Baylor has done in recent history. Thing is with his system if he can continue to recruit decent talent then his teams will at least be competitive.

The30YardSlant

10-17-2011, 11:46 AM

then that is still better than what Baylor has done in recent history. Thing is with his system if he can continue to recruit decent talent then his teams will at least be competitive.

I agree, but the point is that realistically Baylor cannot ever hope to be anything more than average in a major conference. Sure, they can recruit guys like RG3 but they are never going to be able to recruit well enough over a 3-4 year stretch to field a complete team capable of winning 9+ games in this conference. 7-5 in the Big XII is probably Baylor's ceiling.

TheCoolFan

10-17-2011, 11:56 AM

I don't think Baylor is a year away from anything, without RG3 they'd just be the same old Baylor. He makes an awful team average and that's about as good as that team is capable of getting

Of course it all hinges on Griffin coming back, which I'd say looks pretty good. His draft stock right now is not as high as people would think. As of right now, he'd still be the 3rd-best QB prospect behind Andrew Luck and Landry Jones.

That defense can't get any worse next year as they get used to Phil Bennett's defense. Baylor does have plenty of talent...Briles and RG3 have set it up to where that program won't be in the basement in the Big 12 for the future anymore. They've been Top-50 in the country in recruiting over the last few years, which is much better than where they were at pre-Briles.

Of course they won't be contending for national championships most likely but if things go right, 9 or 10 wins at best could be their potential next year and post-RG3, going to bowl games annually. A lot better than when they were winning 3 games every season.

Doomsday101

10-17-2011, 12:06 PM

I agree, but the point is that realistically Baylor cannot ever hope to be anything more than average in a major conference. Sure, they can recruit guys like RG3 but they are never going to be able to recruit well enough over a 3-4 year stretch to field a complete team capable of winning 9+ games in this conference. 7-5 in the Big XII is probably Baylor's ceiling.

I would not bank on that. They likely will never achieve perennial status but there are teams like Boise St was not doing jack but now find themselves as a team who contends and because of that allows them a better chance at getting good players. Same with TCU, if Baylor hope to have a future it will come because a change of culture and kids looking at them as a viable option.

Aikbach

10-17-2011, 02:12 PM

I would not bank on that. They likely will never achieve perennial status but there are teams like Boise St was not doing jack but now find themselves as a team who contends and because of that allows them a better chance at getting good players. Same with TCU, if Baylor hope to have a future it will come because a change of culture and kids looking at them as a viable option.Baylor struggled from 1997 to 2004 with serious AD and coaching problems and turmoil, after 20 years of stability and competitiveness under Grant Teaff in the SWC eroded away under incompetent coaches, they began slowly turning a competitive corner in 2005 but had recruitment problems that didn't turn a bright corner until 2008.

there's no doubt Chuck Reedy, Dave Roberts and Kevin Steele were not good head football coaches, each were successful coordinators that couldn't handle the big gig, Guy Morriss fared better but couldn't get recruitment up to his enthusiasm, Briles has been able to do what no one since Grant Teaff has, put an explosive offense on the field, though Teaff also knew how to build a defense, that has yet to be accomplished.

Doomsday101

10-17-2011, 02:52 PM

Baylor struggled from 1997 to 2004 with serious AD and coaching problems and turmoil, after 20 years of stability and competitiveness under Grant Teaff in the SWC eroded away under incompetent coaches, they began slowly turning a competitive corner in 2005 but had recruitment problems that didn't turn a bright corner until 2008.

there's no doubt Chuck Reedy, Dave Roberts and Kevin Steele were not good head football coaches, each were successful coordinators that couldn't handle the big gig, Guy Morriss fared better but couldn't get recruitment up to his enthusiasm, Briles has been able to do what no one since Grant Teaff has, put an explosive offense on the field, though Teaff also knew how to build a defense, that has yet to be accomplished.

I agree. Briles needs a defense if he expect to compete in the long term. I do think they have a good DC in Phil Bennett who was hired just this season. I think if given some time he can help this defense

Phil Bennett
1982 Texas Christian, tight ends & tackles
1983-86 Iowa State, defensive coordinator
1987-90 Purdue, defensive coordinator
1991 LSU, outside linebackers
1992-93 LSU, asst. head coach/linebackers
1994 LSU, asst. head coach/def coord.
1995-96 Texas A&M, defensive coordinator
1997 TCU, defensive coord. & secondary
1998 Oklahoma, secondary & co-recruiting
1999-2001 Kansas State, defensive coordinator
2002-2007 SMU, head coach
2008-10 Pittsburgh, defensive coordinator
2011-present Baylor, defensive coordinator

The30YardSlant

10-17-2011, 04:06 PM

I would not bank on that. They likely will never achieve perennial status but there are teams like Boise St was not doing jack but now find themselves as a team who contends and because of that allows them a better chance at getting good players. Same with TCU, if Baylor hope to have a future it will come because a change of culture and kids looking at them as a viable option.

But Boise and TCU were able to build their programs in crap conferences. Their teams built up confidence and wins against poor competition, which in turn improved their recruiting. Baylor doesnt have the luxury of playing San Jose State and Idaho every week, and to recruit better you have to win more. Baylor is stuck in a cycle that is almost impossible for a program like them to get out of as long as they reside in a BCS caliber conference.

Doomsday101

10-17-2011, 04:16 PM

But Boise and TCU were able to build their programs in crap conferences. Their teams built up confidence and wins against poor competition, which in turn improved their recruiting. Baylor doesnt have the luxury of playing San Jose State and Idaho every week, and to recruit better you have to win more. Baylor is stuck in a cycle that is almost impossible for a program like them to get out of as long as they reside in a BCS caliber conference.

Sorry I disagree that they are somehow destined to be a bad team. Hell A&M has not looked that good for a while but seemed to their program at least heading in the right direction. Tell me when is the last NC Texas A&M won?

To say Baylor can't sorry not buying it. Baylor can as long as they get the support from the AD and Briles continues to give them hope. Right now Baylor is winning and because of that they get more exposure and when you get more exposure it makes recruiting a big easier.

Clearly they have a harder road to travel than teams like OU and Texas but I do think they can be a much improved program

The30YardSlant

10-17-2011, 04:36 PM

Sorry I disagree that they are somehow destined to be a bad team. Hell A&M has not looked that good for a while but seemed to their program at least heading in the right direction. Tell me when is the last NC Texas A&M won?

I don't know what your point is, A&M isnt a small religious private school with a microscopic atletic budget. A&M has a conference title and 48 more conference victories than Baylor since the Big XII was formed. A&M has resources and fan support Baylor will simply never have. The situations are not comparable.

To say Baylor can't sorry not buying it. Baylor can as long as they get the support from the AD and Briles continues to give them hope. Right now Baylor is winning and because of that they get more exposure and when you get more exposure it makes recruiting a big easier.

Baylor is probably going to win 6 or 7 games this year. If Griffin comes back, they'll win 6 or 7 next year. When Griffin leaves, they'll go back to winning 3-5 games a year until they get their next stud offensive player, at which time they will again win 6 or 7 games for a few years.

Clearly they have a harder road to travel than teams like OU and Texas but I do think they can be a much improved program

They already are. It took Baylor 11 years to win 10 conference games in the Big XII. They have come a long way, but they have a relatively low ceiling

Doomsday101

10-17-2011, 04:44 PM

I don't know what your point is, A&M isnt a small religious private school with a microscopic atletic budget. A&M has a conference title and 48 more conference victories than Baylor since the Big XII was formed. A&M has resources and fan support Baylor will simply never have. The situations are not comparable.

Baylor is probably going to win 6 or 7 games this year. If Griffin comes back, they'll win 6 or 7 next year. When Griffin leaves, they'll go back to winning 3-5 games a year until they get their next stud offensive player, at which time they will again win 6 or 7 games for a few years.

They already are. It took Baylor 11 years to win 10 conference games in the Big XII. They have come a long way, but they have a relatively low ceiling

Winning builds support. Sorry I don't buy into the never theory that you seem to do. You peg a team and that is it and I don't think that is the case if you have the AD who is willing to build a program.

joseephuss

10-17-2011, 05:46 PM

Winning builds support. Sorry I don't buy into the never theory that you seem to do. You peg a team and that is it and I don't think that is the case if you have the AD who is willing to build a program.

Maybe not never, but they have a long way to go to having a consistently good program. You also need patience from the alumni and whomever else has any say in who is the AD and head football coach. I like Briles, but Baylor is a tough place to build and maintain a good program. He also may get hired away to a bigger school at some point.

Aikbach

10-17-2011, 06:06 PM

Maybe not never, but they have a long way to go to having a consistently good program. You also need patience from the alumni and whomever else has any say in who is the AD and head football coach. I like Briles, but Baylor is a tough place to build and maintain a good program. He also may get hired away to a bigger school at some point.It's more than possible, Grant Teaff had Baylor beating top five competition in the 70s and 80s and USC tried to hire him away. in order for briles to attract bigger program attention however he's going to have to string together three or more 8 to 10 win seasons.

joseephuss

10-17-2011, 06:11 PM

It's more than possible, Grant Teaff had Baylor beating top five competition in the 70s and 80s and USC tried to hire him away. in order for briles to attract bigger program attention however he's going to have to string together three or more 8 to 10 win seasons.

It isn't the 70s or 80s anymore. I know it is possible, but there is no guarantee it will happen. They seem to be headed in the right direction, but things can change at any time.

Doomsday101

10-18-2011, 08:53 AM

Maybe not never, but they have a long way to go to having a consistently good program. You also need patience from the alumni and whomever else has any say in who is the AD and head football coach. I like Briles, but Baylor is a tough place to build and maintain a good program. He also may get hired away to a bigger school at some point.

One way to get their in my view is putting a good coach out there. Briles is smart enough to know he can't go toe to toe with the big boys so much like Texas Tech they will run an offense that relys heavy on passing with the 4 and 5 WR sets. He has done that now they are bringing in people who they feel can put together a defense. Key will be winning to gain the support of the AD and alumni if you do that then more money will go into the program to build a team. Easy no but you have to start somewhere.