Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[ABQCOWBOY]

Penn State Officials Head to Court Amid Cover-Up Allegations, Sex Abuse Scandal

Published November 07, 2011| Associated Press

HARRISBURG, Pa. – Just hours after stepping down, two high-ranking Penn State administrators face arraignment Monday on charges they lied to a grand jury investigating former defense coordinator Jerry Sandusky and failed to properly report suspected child abuse, a case that has left fans reeling.

Late Sunday, after an emergency meeting of the Board of Trustees, university President Graham Spanier announced that Athletic Director Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, the school's senior vice president for business and finance, would be leaving their posts.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/11/07/penn-state-officials-head-to-court-amid-cover-up-allegations-sex-abuse-scandal/#ixzz1d21082p4


This is possibly the worst thing that could happen to College Football. If this is true, it's a sad day indeed.

[joseephuss]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/story/2011-11-06/ex-coach-administrators-charged-at-penn-state/51101298/1

Penn State fallout forces changes

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. – The sexual abuse scandal involving a former Penn State football coach has cost a top administrator his job and put another on indefinite leave.

Athletics director Tim Curley is going on administrative leave at his request, according to a statement from the school board of trustees late Sunday. Senior vice president for business and finance Gary Schultz will step down and go back into retirement.

The two face charges they perjured themselves before a grand jury and failed to notify law enforcement authorities of child sexual abuse allegations against Jerry Sandusky, the one-time presumed successor to legendary coach Joe Paterno. Curley and Schultz are expected to turn themselves in to law enforcement in Harrisburg today. The move follows an emergency meeting of the trustees.

[joseephuss]

Penn State Officials Head to Court Amid Cover-Up Allegations, Sex Abuse Scandal

Published November 07, 2011| Associated Press

HARRISBURG, Pa. – Just hours after stepping down, two high-ranking Penn State administrators face arraignment Monday on charges they lied to a grand jury investigating former defense coordinator Jerry Sandusky and failed to properly report suspected child abuse, a case that has left fans reeling.

Late Sunday, after an emergency meeting of the Board of Trustees, university President Graham Spanier announced that Athletic Director Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, the school's senior vice president for business and finance, would be leaving their posts.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/11/07/penn-state-officials-head-to-court-amid-cover-up-allegations-sex-abuse-scandal/#ixzz1d21082p4


This is possibly the worst thing that could happen to College Football. If this is true, it's a sad day indeed.

How did I miss this thread? I swear I looked before starting my own. I agree, this is a bad thing to happen to college football and in general.

[trickblue]

This could be the end to Joe Pa as well...

Obviously he knew... he stated as much... and he knew nothing was done about it...

This one is about as ugly as it gets...

[ConcordCowboy]

I just read the whole Grand Jury Indictment of Sandusky.

WOW.

What a sick pig.

So many times there was a chance to catch this guy or put a stop to it.

People either ignored it...minimalized it...or tried to cover it up.

[WV Cowboy]

Cover it up ????????

It is a good thing I didn't know about it or I would have taken him out myself!

Just kidding, but I am so sick of hearing about this type of stuff, and then find out that some other sick scumbag covered up for the perv.

Like with all of the Catholic priests.

I feel that our country needs to make a huge stand on stuff like this. We need to come out and say that anyone capable of molesting our children or raping our women will be wiped out the day after we prove it.

And anyone that takes someone elses child, you will be wisked away, never to be seen or heard from ever again. No mercy, no second chances.

OK, I'm done with my rant, but I am sick of this type of thing happening in our society, over and over and over again, and nothing is being done to stop this garbage and protect our precious children.

[trickblue]

I just read the whole Grand Jury Indictment of Sandusky.

WOW.

What a sick pig.

So many times there was a chance to catch this guy or put a stop to it.

People either ignored it...minimalized it...or tried to cover it up.

√ Ignored it
√ Minimalized it
√ Tried to cover it up

Sweep it under the rug and protect the brand at all costs...

[ConcordCowboy]

√ Ignored it
√ Minimalized it
√ Tried to cover it up

Sweep it under the rug and protect the brand at all costs...

One of the Victims was with Sandusky the day that Paterno had a meeting with him in 1999 and told him that he wouldn't be the next Head Coach at Penn St...as he thought he was going to be...and said he was very upset.

Sandusky told the victim not to tell anyone about the meeting.

Sandusky retired later that year.

Could you imagine what would have happened if he actually had got the job?

[Sam I Am]

One of the Victims was with Sandusky the day that Paterno had a meeting with him in 1999 and told him that he wouldn't be the next Head Coach at Penn St...as he thought he was going to be...and said he was very upset.

Sandusky told the victim not to tell anyone about the meeting.

Sandusky retired later that year.

If true, WHOOPS! Paterno's legacy just burnt to the grown.

[Joe Realist]

Alot of people near me have gone to Penn State. I read the Grand jury report as well and it does not bode well for Sandusky of the PSU brand. They pride themselves on being of high moral character. Paterno only makes 1 million, , etc., etc.

[ConcordCowboy]

Alot of people near me have gone to Penn State. I read the Grand jury report as well and it does not bode well for Sandusky of the PSU brand. They pride themselves on being of high moral character. Paterno only makes 1 million, , etc., etc.

He's going to need an "If it doesn't fit you must acquit" moment to get out of this.

If I'm the prosecutor I don't have him try on the glove.

[ABQCOWBOY]

This could be the end to Joe Pa as well...

Obviously he knew... he stated as much... and he knew nothing was done about it...

This one is about as ugly as it gets...

I don't think there is any question that Paterno is done.

[ConcordCowboy]

I don't think there is any question that Paterno is done.

They better not steal Urban Myer from us!

[ABQCOWBOY]

If true, WHOOPS! Paterno's legacy just burnt to the grown.

I don't think so. If Paterno steps down now, he will keep his legacy intact IMO. He can say that he reported it and nobody did anything about it. He can say that he took steps to end Sandusky's affiliation with PSU Football, which is true. If he continues on, then he is likely to get drug down as well but if he gets out now, I think he can still keep much of his legacy intact. JMO.

[Hoofbite]

I don't think so. If Paterno steps down now, he will keep his legacy intact IMO. He can say that he reported it and nobody did anything about it. He can say that he took steps to end Sandusky's affiliation with PSU Football, which is true. If he continues on, then he is likely to get drug down as well but if he gets out now, I think he can still keep much of his legacy intact. JMO.

I don't think so.

If he says "I blew the whistle but nobody heard it", nobody is going to believe that.

Obviously he wasn't reporting it to the right people if that's gonna be his out.

[Cajuncowboy]

Sandusky, Curley and Shultz should all boil over this. However, Paterno did what he was supposed to do with the authority he had. I fail to see how Paterno did anything to cover up or otherwise help perpetuate the behavior.

According to the story, Paterno is NOT a suspect in anyway and if he was not involved in the cover up, why should his reputation be in danger?

[StanleySpadowski]

Personally knowing several of the key players involved, I can say that Paterno did nothing wrong. When Mike McQueary and his dad met with him, he didn't give the gory details to Paterno, the same way it would be difficult to discuss this with your grandparents.

Paterno immediately notified his superiors as he was required to do, passing on a severely watered down version that he got.

They waited 10 or 11 days to meet with the McQueary as the version they knew was not that big of a deal.

McQueary then dropped the whole story on Curley at that meeting and Curley went into CYA mode immediately since he knew even then that the wait for the meeting doomed him.

[Cajuncowboy]

Personally knowing several of the key players involved, I can say that Paterno did nothing wrong. When Mike McQueary and his dad met with him, he didn't give the gory details to Paterno, the same way it would be difficult to discuss this with your grandparents.

Paterno immediately notified his superiors as he was required to do, passing on a severely watered down version that he got.

They waited 10 or 11 days to meet with the McQueary as the version they knew was not that big of a deal.

McQueary then dropped the whole story on Curley at that meeting and Curley went into CYA mode immediately since he knew even then that the wait for the meeting doomed him.

Knowing Paterno (And I have had the opportunity to meet with him and spend a few hours one on one with him) this sounds like a more likely scenario with respect to Paterno. I am sure that had Paterno been made aware of the graphic nature of the abuse, he would have pursued it more vigorously.

[Yakuza Rich]

I'm from Syracuse. I used to date a girl, who was from a few towns over. I became good friends with her brother. She went to Penn State on an athletic scholarship.

Not to toot my own horn, but she was a very attractive girl and had a lot of the basketball and football players hanging around her all of the time. So, I would go to visit her and wound up hanging around a bunch of the football players.

It was amazing to me what Penn State would cover up. Some very serious crimes here and obvious violations. Drug use that fellow students knew was covered up. Lots of off the field stuff covered up, etc. Saw it with my own two eyes. There was one crime involving one of their prominent athletes that everybody at the school knew about. It was rampant talk between the students and it was pretty obvious that officials and professors knew about it as well. But...it just disappeared because he was a star player.

For years I've been telling people that Penn State was a dirty program. What's odd is that people always rebuked my claims mainly because Penn State is not dirty with relation to boosters. Which I find odd given that many players are poor and when a booster violates rules, it is to help benefit players who make the schools a ton of money and need the money themselves.

What I've learned through this is that booster violations are considered 'dirty' and the other stuff...people just don't see to care too much about.

Remember, it wasn't too long ago that ESPN took Paterno to task for an outrageous amount of arrests of his players over a short time for breaking the law. Paterno got upset and claimed that it was a 'witch hunt' on national TV. For whatever reason, ESPN dropped the matter.

So is it surprising to me?

Yes because I didn't think anybody would go THIS far.

But, covering stuff up has been going on for a long time at Penn State. Unfortunately, it took such a heinous crime for the truth to come to light.

One of the things that sticks in my craw about this is that Sandusky is 67 years old. He retired in 1999, at the age of 55 years old. That is actually pretty young to retire for a somewhat prominent assistant coach for a major program.

Those guys typically never retire. They'll either get fired or their contract will not be renewed and they can't find work elsewhere. I want to know why he retired, even if there's nothing behind it.

I still believe you are innocent until proven guilty, but this entire situation is pretty damning of Penn State and Paterno.











YR

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't think so. If Paterno steps down now, he will keep his legacy intact IMO. He can say that he reported it and nobody did anything about it. He can say that he took steps to end Sandusky's affiliation with PSU Football, which is true. If he continues on, then he is likely to get drug down as well but if he gets out now, I think he can still keep much of his legacy intact. JMO.

I disagree. Child molestation is something that most people don't want to be anywhere near or affiliated with.

I can't let Paterno or any coach off that easy. McQueary didn't have to be graphic in detail for Paterno to understand what Sandusky was doing.

If I came to you and said 'I saw Sandusky touching this kid in inappropriate places', that's not graphic, but we know it's something extremely serious.

Furthermore...Paterno even stated that McQuery was 'clearly shakened' when he was telling him about the incident. That doesn't make Paterno's story look very good to me.

And Paterno did know of the 'punishment' to Sandusky by the school...he wasn't allowed to bring children with him to the school facilities anymore. He was still allowed to have free access to the school's facilities though.

I think this is going to get really ugly.







YR

[trickblue]

I read a lot on this story this weekend, visiting many Penn State resources. The "retiring" may very well become a question mark as Sandusky had two reported incidents with young boys in both '98 and '99. He fully expected to take over for Joe Pa one day. Joe Pa called him in to his office and told him he would never be head coach at PSU. He got pissed and stormed out and had a YOUNG boy in the car with him (one of the accusers). He related the event to this kid and asked him not to repeat it. He obviously did. It adds a LOT of credibility to the accuser's story, otherwise how would he have known about the meeting with Joe Pa? Sandusky "retired" in '99...

My father highly respected Joe Pa and I was raised to as well. I'm just having trouble wondering why he allowed him to stay and be a part of the PSU program, albeit unofficially, knowing what he knew...

[joseephuss]

Sandusky, Curley and Shultz should all boil over this. However, Paterno did what he was supposed to do with the authority he had. I fail to see how Paterno did anything to cover up or otherwise help perpetuate the behavior.

According to the story, Paterno is NOT a suspect in anyway and if he was not involved in the cover up, why should his reputation be in danger?

Paterno probably did have limited authority to do too much; however, Paterno holds a lot of power and influence. Enough that he could have probably gotten more done. It is too early to really figure out who could have done what and when. I'm certainly not condemning Paterno. This is an ugly situation. I hope it gets rectified quickly.

[Yakuza Rich]

My father highly respected Joe Pa and I was raised to as well. I'm just having trouble wondering why he allowed him to stay and be a part of the PSU program, albeit unofficially, knowing what he knew...

I don't think it's a stretch to think that Paterno was worried about the program and himself being tarnished.

The tough part is the program would have been hurt, to a degree, had the school turned Sandusky in the first time they found out about this. That's just how the world works. But, if it's as bad as we think it is...the damage to Penn State and Joe Paterno's reputation will be far worse now. As they say, the coverup is always worse than the crime.







YR

[StanleySpadowski]

I'm from Syracuse. I used to date a girl, who was from a few towns over. I became good friends with her brother. She went to Penn State on an athletic scholarship.

Not to toot my own horn, but she was a very attractive girl and had a lot of the basketball and football players hanging around her all of the time. So, I would go to visit her and wound up hanging around a bunch of the football players.

It was amazing to me what Penn State would cover up. Some very serious crimes here and obvious violations. Drug use that fellow students knew was covered up. Lots of off the field stuff covered up, etc. Saw it with my own two eyes. There was one crime involving one of their prominent athletes that everybody at the school knew about. It was rampant talk between the students and it was pretty obvious that officials and professors knew about it as well. But...it just disappeared because he was a star player.

For years I've been telling people that Penn State was a dirty program. What's odd is that people always rebuked my claims mainly because Penn State is not dirty with relation to boosters. Which I find odd given that many players are poor and when a booster violates rules, it is to help benefit players who make the schools a ton of money and need the money themselves.

What I've learned through this is that booster violations are considered 'dirty' and the other stuff...people just don't see to care too much about.

Remember, it wasn't too long ago that ESPN took Paterno to task for an outrageous amount of arrests of his players over a short time for breaking the law. Paterno got upset and claimed that it was a 'witch hunt' on national TV. For whatever reason, ESPN dropped the matter.

So is it surprising to me?

Yes because I didn't think anybody would go THIS far.

But, covering stuff up has been going on for a long time at Penn State. Unfortunately, it took such a heinous crime for the truth to come to light.

One of the things that sticks in my craw about this is that Sandusky is 67 years old. He retired in 1999, at the age of 55 years old. That is actually pretty young to retire for a somewhat prominent assistant coach for a major program.

Those guys typically never retire. They'll either get fired or their contract will not be renewed and they can't find work elsewhere. I want to know why he retired, even if there's nothing behind it.

I still believe you are innocent until proven guilty, but this entire situation is pretty damning of Penn State and Paterno.











YR

Sandusky retired because he was accused of child abuse in 98. The DA declined to prosecute and the issue was dropped but Paterno went to Sandusky and told him he would never be the head coach at PSU after that so he retired.

A side note is that the DA was Ray Gricar, the DA who made the national news a few years later by vanishing.

[trickblue]

Sandusky retired because he was accused of child abuse in 98. The DA declined to prosecute and the issue was dropped but Paterno went to Sandusky and told him he would never be the head coach at PSU after that so he retired.

A side note is that the DA was Ray Gricar, the DA who made the national news a few years later by vanishing.

Yeah... they just declared him dead a couple of months ago.... weird story...

[ZeroClub]

Obviously a horrible story. Those poor kids ....

Difficult to know what (and how much) was known (or should have been known) by the head coach and administrators.

[Cajuncowboy]

Yeah... they just declared him dead a couple of months ago.... weird story...

The guy was from Bellfonte. His car ended up being found in Lewisburg PA, a small town south of where I lived for most of my life. I know of people who said they saw him after the car was found. Weird thing is they found his laptop in the river but never found him. They assumed he jumped off a bridge, but the water was too low at the time for him to have jumped and not be found. THis is guy who wanted out of his current life, not life in general.

Also, I don't know if you can find any of the programs archived anywhere but Greta Van Sustern had done some of her stories on his disappearance.

[Yakuza Rich]

Saw the Gricar story on 'Disappeared' on Discovery ID channel. Really weird case.







YR

[DOUBLE WING]

Paterno probably did have limited authority to do too much; however, Paterno holds a lot of power and influence. Enough that he could have probably gotten more done. It is too early to really figure out who could have done what and when. I'm certainly not condemning Paterno. This is an ugly situation. I hope it gets rectified quickly.

This is precisely it. Did Paterno act right by legal standards? Sure. By moral standards? Hell no.

Let's not downplay it. Joe Paterno IS Penn State University. He is the face of the football program, the athletic program, and the school. If he doesn't want something to happen at the school, it doesn't happen.

As such, Paterno has to answer to the question of why Sandusky was still allowed to bring kids to HIS team's practice as recently as 2007. He has to answer to why Sandusky was still allowed to work out in his team's training facility as recently as LAST WEEK. He has to answer as to why nobody, not him, not the AD, not the President, not the assistant coach who walked in on them EVER called the police.

This is a massive cover up and frankly, I don't think anyone is going to come out of this unscathed. Something this dirty doesn't go on for this long without everyone involved, especially the higher ups knowing about it. You had to have your head buried pretty far in the sand to think Paterno was totally oblivious to all of this.

[Yakuza Rich]

I think the entire 'Joe Paterno' had authority vs. he didn't have authority...is neither here nor there.

I would like to think that if any one of us was in the same spot, we would have done some type of follow up. It's not like Sandusky was a one-time assistant who coached a few years...then went far away. He was around the school for years afterward and had football camps at their satellite campuses and was still using the facilities.

I would like to think that most people would have:

1) found somebody in law enforcement
2) ran him off the college permanently and immediately
3) checked up to see what the deal is and pursued the manner.

I think most people would've handled it that way. It's not a football coach 'how much power does he have?' thing. It's a human reaction to such a reprehensible crime that a trusted graduate assistant who was visibly shakened by the incident reported to you.

The only thing that Joe Pa's legacy and power does is that had he gone to the police, they would be much more likely to take action. Had the police done nothing...he could've ran him off campus permanently without an issue.

Now, if McQuery came to Joe Pa and said something like 'I think I saw Sandusky acting inappropriately with a young boy. I am not sure what I swaw, but they were doing something and the boy looked very upset.'

That's where I could see Paterno acting like he did.

But, it really doesn't appear that way. Particularly with his son basically stating that he didn't think there was anything he could do because it was heresay.

I think Paterno was greatly embarrassed by it and was afraid of the backlash and tried to do what he needed to legally absolve himself.








YR

[BrAinPaiNt]

The whole thing just sounds bad.

I don't know if Joe Pa could have done more but I imagine if he wanted to he could have.

He is pretty much the face of Penn State football and if he did not sway some kind of power he would have been long gone as the HC of Penn state IMO.

I don't think he covered it up or anything of that nature but I think he probably could have did more than he did if he wanted to.

Either way I think his image will be tarnished for this even if it is just a short term thing because the University is going to be tarnished for it and like it or not when most people (minus penn state grads) think of Penn State they think of Joe Pa and the nittany lions football team.

I just hope all of this comes out in the open because it has been hidden for too long in some fashion. The silver lining in this tragic story is that if something like this starts to happen again I hope it gets dealt with a little swifter and a little stronger.

[The30YardSlant]

Joe Paterno is second to nobody at that school. He could walk into the school president's office and have the athletic director fired on the spot if he had a mind to do it. I don't buy for one damn second that he couldnt have put an end to this immediately if he wanted to.

[StanleySpadowski]

Paterno is an institution and respected but he lost most of his "power" over the last decade.

[cowboyeric8]

I'm so tired of the limited authority excuses crap. It was a felony! Go to the police. Don't go to people with in the organization. All the graduate assistant had to do, or Paterno or anyone else was call 911 and have a real investigation not some University sweep it under the rug process. Everyone who knew even a little about what was going on is at fault for letting it continue. If they had just shut it down it could have saved the trauma from who knows how many little boys.

It is about doing what is right.

[MC KAos]

I'm so tired of the limited authority excuses crap. It was a felony! Go to the police. Don't go to people with in the organization. All the graduate assistant had to do, or Paterno or anyone else was call 911 and have a real investigation not some University sweep it under the rug process. Everyone who knew even a little about what was going on is at fault for letting it continue. If they had just shut it down it could have saved the trauma from who knows how many little boys.

It is about doing what is right.

:hammer:

[Bigdog]

There is something that many of you need to know about reporting abuse and that is if it is told to you as second hand information than the person who told you has to make the report. You need to urge that person to make the report and should follow up with it. Paterno is a state employee and is a mandated reporter so if he was told by an alleged victim and did not report it to the authorities than he is in big trouble. If he was told by someone that he saw a coach do something wrong with a youngster than the person who saw it needs to report to Child Protective Services. This happens a lot when teachers are told about abuse from one of their students and they wait for the school counselor to come in and make the report. The school counselor gets second hand information and is not the mandated reporter but the teacher is. Now what Paterno should have done since he is a mandated reporter is when he was told by this person that his assistant coach was being inappropriate with this child is to pick up the phone and dial Child Protective Services with the person make the report right there. The person would need to know the name of the alleged victim, age, the perpetrator's name, age and other pertinent information. The CPS worker would then make a decision if a report needs to be filed or not. If no report needs to be filed than person needs to make sure to get the CPS worker's name that said no report needs to be file and to write in a note and file it away. Paterno is not the one to determine whether these allegations happened or not but CPS is and can decide with law enforcement if they need to go further with their investigation.

[drawnstripes]

Jo Pa in 2012

Retired

[SaltwaterServr]

I'm so tired of the limited authority excuses crap. It was a felony! Go to the police. Don't go to people with in the organization. All the graduate assistant had to do, or Paterno or anyone else was call 911 and have a real investigation not some University sweep it under the rug process. Everyone who knew even a little about what was going on is at fault for letting it continue. If they had just shut it down it could have saved the trauma from who knows how many little boys.

It is about doing what is right.

This.

Joe Pa is going to learn really quick that just passing this up the chain of command isn't going to cut it in the eyes of the law.

Someone needs to forward him a link to the definition of "due diligence" because it sounds like he avoided doing anything remotely like pursuing it as he should have.

Me, a 12 gauge, a pre-signed pardon from the governor of Pennsylvania, and a pen full of starving feral hogs. Save the state a butt load of money on the trial.

[ConcordCowboy]

Saw the Gricar story on 'Disappeared' on Discovery ID channel. Really weird case.


Me too.

I love that show and channel.

[peplaw06]

Paterno should have fired him. End of story.

I heard on the radio this morning that this guy was actually allowed back on campus as recently as 2007 and he had a child with him then.

Paterno may not be legally culpable, but morally he is.

[Yakuza Rich]

Paterno should have fired him. End of story.

I heard on the radio this morning that this guy was actually allowed back on campus as recently as 2007 and he had a child with him then.

Paterno may not be legally culpable, but morally he is.

Sandusky was on campus *last week*.

Read this timeline and connect the dots.

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2011/11/key_dates_in_the_jerry_sandusk.html







YR

[joseephuss]

Penn St. cancels Joe Paterno's weekly press conference that was to be held Tuesday morning. Paterno's son claims JoePa wanted to speak to the press, but the presser was canceled without consulting him. This is according to ESPN radio.

[MichaelWinicki]

This was in an SI article:

"The most recent reported incident was in 2002, when a graduate student witnessed Sandusky showering with a ten-year-old boy. The student reported what he saw to long-time head coach Joe Paterno and Paterno in turn reported the incident to the administration. The administration failed to notify the police, breaking Pennsylvania law. The university only imposed a ban on Sandusky bringing children into the football facilities."

The guy could no longer bring kids into the football facilities? Really?

[Rogah]

Jo Pa in 2012

RetiredSounds to me like within a few days (or possibly even a few hours) we can change that to: JoePA in November, 2011: Retired.

[Rogah]

Penn St. cancels Joe Paterno's weekly press conference that was to be held Tuesday morning. Paterno's son claims JoePa wanted to speak to the press, but the presser was canceled without consulting him. This is according to ESPN radio.It's a load of bullcrap. Originally this morning they announced they were going to have the press conference but no questions regarding the scandal would be addressed. Then, after they cancel it, they claim "hey he wanted to address the charges!"

[juck]

Sad thing is all these people that saw this and did nothing. Twisted Ish.

[Rogah]

Paterno should have fired him. End of story. But I don't think that's the end of story. This isn't some case where an assistant coach was banging some co-ed consensually. Paterno should have notified the proper authorities for this obscenely illegal activity that was going on.

What a despicable end to a man's career. 50 years of coaching and this is what people will remember.

[Muhast]

"The first case to come to light was a boy who met Sandusky when he was 11 or 12, and physical contact began during his overnight stays at Sandusky's house, the grand jury said. Eventually, the boy's mother reported the sexual assault allegations to his high school, and Sandusky was banned from the child's school district in Clinton County. That triggered the state investigation that culminated in charges Saturday.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/11/07/penn-state-officials-head-to-court-amid-cover-up-allegations-sex-abuse-scandal/#ixzz1d8WT93Jc
"

This is on a completely different topic, but would ANY of you let your child who goes to At Risk foundations spend the night with a man who is more or less a stranger? I can't believe a parent would ever allow this. I understand that she did not know this was going to take place, but you have to really wonder why anybody would let their child spend the night at some guy's house unsupervised.


Sorry, that paragraph in particular really bothers me. This whole case is disgusting.

[Kangaroo]

I think this scandal along with the Miami scandal coming out may just deep six the NCAA they are going to have to reorganize and make big strides in cleaning up college football before the Government starts getting involved.

[Rogah]

I think this scandal along with the Miami scandal coming out may just deep six the NCAA they are going to have to reorganize and make big strides in cleaning up college football before the Government starts getting involved.The thing is, this scandal is on a whole other level when compared to Ohio State or Miami. We're not talking about some booster giving a kid $10,000 or free tattoos or whatever.

This is just not even in the same stratosphere as those scandals. This is something that any of us would deservedly do a long time in jail if we did those things. I am genuinely saddened to see this ugliness, but hopeful that there will be some punishment doled out.

[WV Cowboy]

Joe Paterno and other Penn St. officials didn't do enough to try to stop suspected sexual abuse of children at the hands of a former assistant coach.

Paterno may have fulfilled his legal requirement to report suspected abuse by Sandusky, but somebody has to question about what I consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows sexual things that are taking place with a child.

I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call police.

This case goes beyond football and Penn State university.

It is a case about children who have had their innocence stolen from them, in a culture that did nothing to stop it or prevent it from happening to others.

[Kangaroo]

The thing is, this scandal is on a whole other level when compared to Ohio State or Miami. We're not talking about some booster giving a kid $10,000 or free tattoos or whatever.

This is just not even in the same stratosphere as those scandals. This is something that any of us would deservedly do a long time in jail if we did those things. I am genuinely saddened to see this ugliness, but hopeful that there will be some punishment doled out.

I think it all ties together the whole hide, cover up and lie about what ever to have winning football team.

That is why I think it was covered up or ignored by PSU it was all about W's and winning to get fan money etc etc. Greed good old fashion greed and the NCAA is part of the problem and not part of the solution. I think it all ties back together and makes for a sad situation.

The entire scandal is disturbing and it also looks like the second mile did not have good controls in place to help prevent this type of action either as an organization.

[WV Cowboy]

I think it all ties together the whole hide, cover up and lie about what ever to have winning football team.

That is why I think it was covered up or ignored by PSU it was all about W's and winning to get fan money etc etc. Greed good old fashion greed and the NCAA is part of the problem and not part of the solution. I think it all ties back together and makes for a sad situation.

The entire scandal is disturbing and it also looks like the second mile did not have good controls in place to help prevent this type of action either as an organization.

Kind of like the Roman Catholic church.

[Chocolate Lab]

Sandusky was on campus *last week*.

Read this timeline and connect the dots.

http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2011/11/key_dates_in_the_jerry_sandusk.htmlI didn't know that much about this case and although I obviously knew it was awful already, I really wish I hadn't read those details. :puke:

That might be the worst thing I've ever read in my life. So freaking disgusting. How the EFF is that guy out on bail? Are you kidding me? :mad:

Sadly, he'll probably commit suicide before he can be taken to trial. Not kidding.

Really, Saltwater had the right idea with the shotgun and feral hogs.

[ZeroClub]

Does anyone here really know exactly what Paterno knew and when he knew it?

[Rogah]

Paterno may have fulfilled his legal requirement to report suspected abuse by Sandusky, but somebody has to question about what I consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows sexual things that are taking place with a child.I am not even so sure that's the case. If someone finds out about child molestation taking place, I don't think the legal requirement is to report it to your school's athletic director and then wipe your hands clean of the matter when he decides not to do a darn thing.
This case goes beyond football and Penn State university.Absolutely 100% true. But the University is sure going to take one heck of a hit for this one; a hit which will last years, if not decades. And I imagine State College's endowment will be shrinking significantly when they lose tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars in the upcoming lawsuits.

[WV Cowboy]

Really, Saltwater had the right idea with the shotgun and feral hogs.

Only after he tours every prison in America and any willing inmate has a turn with him.

[Rogah]

Does anyone here really know exactly what Paterno knew and when he knew it?Allegedly that McQueary guy (now the Penn St. WR coach) told Paterno in 2002 that he personally witnessed a despicable act of what can really only be called forceable rape of a minor. (When I say he "witnessed" it, what I mean is that he walked into the locker room and stumbled onto it completely by accident). Allegedly Paterno passed that information on to the athletic director but none of those 3 men decided to take it any further than that.

Paterno is denying that McQueary told him exactly what happened, but I find it rather hard to believe that McQueary went into JoePA's office all shaken up and said "I just saw something horrible!" to which Paterno replied "well, don't tell me anything specific, son, I'd rather not know!"

[Yakuza Rich]

Really, Saltwater had the right idea with the shotgun and feral hogs.

Nah.

Send Sandusky to a hardcore prison. They don't take too kindly to child molestors there. He'll get a receipt and then some.









YR

[Chocolate Lab]

Does anyone here really know exactly what Paterno knew and when he knew it?

I don't think they do... At least nothing that's been reported.

Maybe it's my faith in humanity, but I have to believe it was more what Stanley said, that Paterno was told a highly sterilized version and even then he, not being a sicko, never considered anything like that was the real story.

I mean, I just can't imagine that he or any human could know that had happened and not do more about it. There's no way.

Of course, someone had to know, even if it wasn't Paterno. :banghead: :mad:

But how did that janitor or GA not go find a 2x4 or grab a helmet out of a locker and bash that old man into oblivion right then and there? UGH!

[Yakuza Rich]

Does anyone here really know exactly what Paterno knew and when he knew it?

From the sounds of it...Paterno knew about it in *1998*, not 2002.

It appears that there were rumors about some inappropriate behavior between Sandusky and the boys...mainly showering with these kids before 1998. One parent make a sexual abuse allegation and Sandusky admitted to it over the phone (claiming he wanted to be dead).

But, the DA didn't prosecute.

At the time (1998), Sandusky was supposed to be the heir apparent to Joe Pa's head coaching position. But, Sandusky was allegedly told by Joe Pa. after the incident that he will never be the head coach at Penn State.

Sandusky retired in 1999 and it's apparent that it was due to the incident and Joe Pa. telling him he would never be the HC at Penn State.

But...they allowed him full access...with children to the school's facilities.

So, Joe Pa knew about the allegation back in '98.


Then in 2002, 4 years *after*, McQuery reports to Joe Pa. that he saw Sandusky rape a boy that looked to be about 10 years old.

Paterno reports it to the school administrators.


NONE of this flies with me.

After the 1998 incident, I could see Joe Pa. thinking he did what he could do legally because the DA decided to not prosecute Sandusky. But why Joe Pa. let Sandusky stick around the school is beyond me. He should have ran him off completely.

Then, 4 years later, it happens again (and it appears to have escalated) and all Joe Pa does is report it to the school and leaves it at that. And Sandusky's punishment? No kids allowed to the school's facilities, but he still has full access to the school.

Normally, in the real world, what happens with cases like this is the predator bails out of town and goes far, far away and there's nothing the local authorities can do. But, Sandusky was a visible fixture. He was still running football camps at satellite campuses until September 2010...when more boys were being molested.

Quite frankly, I don't think we've even hit the tip of the iceberg yet. I think if the prosecution and some members of the media really wanted to investigate...they'd strike oil.







YR

[WoodysGirl]

I didn't know that much about this case and although I obviously knew it was awful already, I really wish I hadn't read those details. :puke:

That might be the worst thing I've ever read in my life. So freaking disgusting. How the EFF is that guy out on bail? Are you kidding me? :mad:

Sadly, he'll probably commit suicide before he can be taken to trial. Not kidding.

Really, Saltwater had the right idea with the shotgun and feral hogs.
I should've taken your lead and not read the details either..

Disgusting is too mild a word.

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't think they do... At least nothing that's been reported.

Maybe it's my faith in humanity, but I have to believe it was more what Stanley said, that Paterno was told a highly sterilized version and even then he, not being a sicko, never considered anything like that was the real story.

I mean, I just can't imagine that he or any human could know that had happened and not do more about it. There's no way.

I don't think we can let Joe Pa. off that easily.

I agree in the sense that it sounds incredible to me that somebody would just let it slide. But, I can't put it above somebody like Paterno to cover things up in order to protect his legacy.

It's obvious that Paterno knew about Sandusky back in 1998. That's why Sandusky retired because he was told after the incident that he would never be the HC at Penn State. Why would Paterno do that unless he knew what Sandusky did and knew it was true?

Like I said earlier, McQuery doesn't have to be graphic. He can say "I saw Jerry raping a boy in the shower."

That's not graphic, but given the 1998 incident and now...Paterno knew.

I think people may need to start to face the truth that perhaps Paterno was much more selfish than they ever thought and was in reality, a coward.









YR

[Rogah]

From the sounds of it...Paterno knew about it in *1998*, not 2002.

It appears that there were rumors about some inappropriate behavior between Sandusky and the boys...mainly showering with these kids before 1998. One parent make a sexual abuse allegation and Sandusky admitted to it over the phone (claiming he wanted to be dead).

But, the DA didn't prosecute.According to the grand jury's Findings of Fact, there were more than just rumors, there was an actual investigation by the State College Polize Department in response to an allegation from the mother of a victim. Apparently the decision was made that the allegations did not rise to the level of prosecution, though I have to question the wisdom of whomever made that decision.

That particular allegation doesn't mention Paterno specifically, though I find it impossible to believe that any of this went on without his knowledge.

[Rogah]

I think people may need to start to face the truth that perhaps Paterno was much more selfish than they ever thought and was in reality, a coward.That is a very sad and unfortunate realization that I have been coming to over the past 36 hours. A couple days ago, this man was arguably the shining beacon of big time college football. Now I'm thinking he should probably do some time behind bars.

[Yakuza Rich]

That is a very sad and unfortunate realization that I have been coming to over the past 36 hours. A couple days ago, this man was arguably the shining beacon of big time college football. Now I'm thinking he should probably do some time behind bars.

Like I said earlier...I was somewhat familiar with the school and there was a lot of stuff going on (completely unrelated incidents) that were very bad things, including crimes, that were very well circulated on campus that the students knew very well and were blatantly covered up.

People forget, Penn State is out in the middle of nowhere. The closest cities with reporters are Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and they are more worried about their own city's sports than trying to keep an eye on Penn State. And any local reporter investigating their crap would be completely out-gunned and would be in fear of losing their job.

They've covered up things for years and I think it's obvious they thought they could cover this up as well. I just thought even Paterno and Penn State wouldn't cover up something this heinous.

I guess I gave them too much credit.








YR

[Chocolate Lab]

I don't think we can let Joe Pa. off that easily.

I agree in the sense that it sounds incredible to me that somebody would just let it slide. But, I can't put it above somebody like Paterno to cover things up in order to protect his legacy.

You might be right. Paterno had known this guy for so long, I assume he was not just an employee but a friend. But to ignore something that heinous?

I could also see what Rogah said, where Paterno basically lets this little GA know, even nonverbally, that he doesn't really want to know any details. I think that happens *tons* with coaches even at the high school level, but probably way more at a major program like at Penn State. Just think of all the recruiting and booster payment type violations that have to go on constantly... I think these coaches truly don't want to know any bad news. I know a lot of them don't.

Of course this case is on a whole different level, but I think they're conditioned to think that way, that I'm the king and I have underlings to handle any messy stuff, so don't bring me any trouble. And I could see especially a GA being afraid of his job if he made his boss mad.

You're right, though, that even if Paterno didn't really know, someone did. And they didn't do anything about it. Hopefully the media are able to find the truth and and every single person who ignored this horrendous crime ends up in jail for a very long time.

[Yakuza Rich]

What I'm saying is that Paterno *did* know before.

The 1998 incident....there's not much Paterno could have done legally. I'm sure it came as a shock to him as well. That a long trusted friend was a child molestor.

But, this was presented to the DA and they wouldn't prosecute. Although I still don't understand the decision to keep him on campus....unless you wanted to keep this under wraps.

Still though...not the absolute worst and incomprehensible actions by Paterno back in '98.

However, once it happened AGAIN in 2002...I don't think you really need to know the details. And I believe McQuery told him essentially that he raped a kid.

I don't see it hard for Paterno to take McQuery with him and go to the police station and report the crime. Or to tell McQuery that he needs to report this to the police.

What kills me is that Sandusky was still fully allowed access to the facilities and was still teaching the Second Mile football program on Penn State satellite campuses.

That's what screams 'coverup' and 'protect my legacy' more than anything. It's the football program. People want to talk about 'power'...Joe Paterno certainly has power over the football program.









YR

[WV Cowboy]

Paterno will make this whole situation even worse for himself if he refuses to step down, .. now.

This is ugly now, and will be uglier moving forward.

He may have earned the right to keep coaching far too long, but he has not earned the right to walk freely away from not reporting child sex abuse.

How many boys would not have experienced this if he had done the right thing when he first found out?

[RoyTheHammer]

I think people may need to start to face the truth that perhaps Paterno was much more selfish than they ever thought and was in reality, a coward.

YR

He obviously made a huge error in judgement, but he did report the incident. The man is anything but selfish.

[MichaelWinicki]

Rich is right about Penn St. and how isolated it is from the rest of the world.

It's not just the distance from major population centers, but the geography as well that isolates it. You leave the campus in any direction and within a few miles you would swear you're out in the middle of no-where with everything a sea of hills and forests.

It's easy to keep things bottle up there.

In addition Penn State football is like a religion to those folks. They don't have anything else. There are NFL teams that don't have the following that Penn State football does. And there are people that would do anything in the world to protect that.

[MichaelWinicki]

He obviously made a huge error in judgement, but he did report the incident. The man is anything but selfish.

If it was his kid, would he have done the same thing?

[RoyTheHammer]

If it was his kid, would he have done the same thing?

I've already stated that he made a huge error in judgement.. not sure how you missed that as you just quoted the post.

[RoyTheHammer]

In addition Penn State football is like a religion to those folks. They don't have anything else. There are NFL teams that don't have the following that Penn State football does.

You could say this about alot of college football teams.. not sure what you're point is though.

[Chocolate Lab]

However, once it happened AGAIN in 2002...I don't think you really need to know the details. And I believe McQuery told him essentially that he raped a kid.
Yeah, I was just reading a SI story on it, and apparently it's in the grand jury testimony that Paterno told the administrator that it was something of a sexual nature. I'd read earlier that he might have been told it was just "horsing around". So if that's true, even if he didn't know the exact details, he knew enough.

So, so sick.

Why hasn't Penn State fired him already?

[Joe Realist]

Paterno will be gone within days or weeks. This whole story is surreal.

[RoyTheHammer]

Yeah, I was just reading a SI story on it, and apparently it's in the grand jury testimony that Paterno told the administrator that it was something of a sexual nature. I'd read earlier that he might have been told it was just "horsing around". So if that's true, even if he didn't know the exact details, he knew enough.

So, so sick.

Why hasn't Penn State fired him already?

Who's going to fire him right now? The president of the university and the athletic director are both under more heat than Joe is right now for their roles in the situation.

The prosecution seems to think Joe did what he should have done, they don't seem to think the same about either of the other two men i just mentioned.

[MichaelWinicki]

I've already stated that he made a huge error in judgement.. not sure how you missed that as you just quoted the post.

And there probably will be some accountability issues because of that error.

[Rogah]

He obviously made a huge error in judgement, but he did report the incident. The man is anything but selfish.When we're talking about such a heinous violation of the law, telling your boss is not really considered "reporting the incident". It isn't like they caught some 19 year old football player with a beer in his hand. This goes WAY above and beyond the type of incident you want to keep in house.

[MichaelWinicki]

You could say this about alot of college football teams.. not sure what you're point is though.

The point is that the incentive to cover the problem is present and isolation of the place makes it easier to pull off as opposed to many other universities.

[Chocolate Lab]

Who's going to fire him right now? The president of the university and the athletic director are both under more heat than Joe is right now for their roles in the situation.

The prosecution seems to think Joe did what he should have done, they don't seem to think the same about either of the other two men i just mentioned.

Legality has nothing to do with it.

[RoyTheHammer]

And there probably will be some accountability issues because of that error.

Depending on what he actually knew, yes i'd say there could be.. because he made a huge error in moral judgement. At the same time, it was a long time friend of his and he reported him.

Im not arguing that Joe should have a clean conscious right now, but at the same time, calling him selfish is a bit much. If anything, knowing how much Penn State meant to him, he wanted to protect the reputation of the school more than he gave a **** about his own legacy.

[RoyTheHammer]

Legality has nothing to do with it.

It does, when you're asking why he hasn't been fired yet.. and the people that are in the position to fire him are the ones in the most hot water.

[Yakuza Rich]

Joe Paterno would be selfish because he would have helped keep this story under wraps by doing the bare minimum legally to protect himself. THAT is selfish when you have 10 year old boys getting molested.

And I believe the motive for trying to keep this under wraps is clear.

To protect his legacy as a coach along with the reputation of football program.

He chose to protect his legacy and the football program's reputation over getting a child molestor...whose acts were escalating in their heinous nature.

THAT is selfish. And THAT is being a coward.

Anybody who knows anything knows that child molestors don't have a '1 time lapse in judgment.' They WILL do it again. You don't have to be a criminologist to figure that one out.

And that's what Sandusky did. And the crimes got worse and worse.







YR

[Yakuza Rich]

It does, when you're asking why he hasn't been fired yet.. and the people that are in the position to fire him are the ones in the most hot water.

Doesn't Penn State have a Board that can make this decision?







YR

[RoyTheHammer]

When we're talking about such a heinous violation of the law, telling your boss is not really considered "reporting the incident". It isn't like they caught some 19 year old football player with a beer in his hand. This goes WAY above and beyond the type of incident you want to keep in house.

It seems like it is according to Pennsylvania authorities.. you want to go tell them they're wrong?

I feel like there's a reason Joe isn't being indicted on any charges and other Penn State officials are.

[DOUBLE WING]

How could Mike McQuery have stayed at Penn State after seeing what he saw? How could he continue coaching there for another nine years? How could he just stand by while Sandusky was at practice? How could he share the same halls that Sandusky apparently STILL roams to work out in? I would have been on the first train out of that place.

This whole story is just SO. FREAKING. BIZARRE. From top to bottom this is just about the dirtiest, seediest sports related story I've ever heard.

[RoyTheHammer]

Joe Paterno would be selfish because he would have helped keep this story under wraps by doing the bare minimum legally to protect himself. THAT is selfish when you have 10 year old boys getting molested.

And I believe the motive for trying to keep this under wraps is clear.

To protect his legacy as a coach along with the reputation of football program.

He chose to protect his legacy and the football program's reputation over getting a child molestor...whose acts were escalating in their heinous nature.

THAT is selfish. And THAT is being a coward.

Anybody who knows anything knows that child molestors don't have a '1 time lapse in judgment.' They WILL do it again. You don't have to be a criminologist to figure that one out.

And that's what Sandusky did. And the crimes got worse and worse.







YR


You're assuming alot in your posts in this thread.. that's what i disagree with. Nothing else. You don't know what Joe knew.. none of us does. The fact that he's not being charged and other PSU officials are leads me to believe that he didn't know as much as some of us are assuming.

You're also assuming alot in suggesting he covered it up because he cared more about his own personal legacy than little children being raped. That's a huge stretch too and just plain silliness.

[RoyTheHammer]

Doesn't Penn State have a Board that can make this decision?







YR

I would think, and hope, that the board would have more pressing issues right now than worrying about the football coach who isn't being charged at all in this investigation.

Such as, maybe what to do with the people that are being charged in the incident, and what to do about the head of the entire university, Graham Spanier.

[cowboyeric8]

It seems like it is according to Pennsylvania authorities.. you want to go tell them they're wrong?



I will gladly tell them they are wrong.

Anybody who had any knowledge and let it continue is in the wrong. I don't care about legally. You are one sick person if you know that these kind of acts are going on. I'm sorry but I don't excuse anyone who had knowledge. They are all selfish bastards.

Also the GA is biggest coward of them all other than the molester himself. He witnessed this going on, instead he goes to his office, calls his dad (why not call the freaking police), and then tells Paterno the NEXT day! And this GA continues to work at this university with a good job? Hmm, was someone else also told to be quiet?

Again anybody who knew is at fault here. Legally or not. I don't understand how someone could just let this sort of thing keep happening. All to protect their precious football program. Unbelievable. Humanity sucks.

[Chocolate Lab]

It does, when you're asking why he hasn't been fired yet.. and the people that are in the position to fire him are the ones in the most hot water.

No it doesn't. Are you saying he has to do something illegal to get fired?

How could Mike McQuery have stayed at Penn State after seeing what he saw? How could he continue coaching there for another nine years? How could he just stand by while Sandusky was at practice? How could he share the same halls that Sandusky apparently STILL roams to work out in? I would have been on the first train out of that place.

This whole story is just SO. FREAKING. BIZARRE. From top to bottom this is just about the dirtiest, seediest sports related story I've ever heard.

No kidding. I'd have nightmares for months if I left immediately, never mind actually going back to work there every day. And double never mind seeing that scumbag on the premises ever again.

[cowboyeric8]

You're assuming alot in your posts in this thread.. that's what i disagree with. Nothing else. You don't know what Joe knew.. none of us does. The fact that he's not being charged and other PSU officials are leads me to believe that he didn't know as much as some of us are assuming.

You're also assuming alot in suggesting he covered it up because he cared more about his own personal legacy than little children being raped. That's a huge stretch too and just plain silliness.

How is that a huge stretch? Paterno is Penn State, and these things are happening in his locker room and at Bowl games? Please, Paterno had to know.

[Rogah]

It seems like it is according to Pennsylvania authorities.. you want to go tell them they're wrong?

I feel like there's a reason Joe isn't being indicted on any charges and other Penn State officials are.There's still plenty of time to hand out more indictments so I wouldn't be so sure Paterno is free and clear in that regard. The other Penn State officials indicted are accused of perjury and failure to report. For now, Paterno's "I know nussink - NUSSINK!" defense has thus far helped him avoid any formal charges but I wouldn't be surprised if we see some coming somewhere down the line.

[Rogah]

You're assuming alot in your posts in this thread.. that's what i disagree with. Nothing else. You don't know what Joe knew.. none of us does. The fact that he's not being charged and other PSU officials are leads me to believe that he didn't know as much as some of us are assuming.

You're also assuming alot in suggesting he covered it up because he cared more about his own personal legacy than little children being raped. That's a huge stretch too and just plain silliness.It no more "silly" than the fact that a graduate assistant saw a 60 year old man forcibly raping a 10 year old boy and did nothing about it but tell his father. Or that the father's response wasn't "let's tell the police" but rather "let's tell coach Joe."

(And my above statement here is taken from the grand jury's Finding of Fact so AFAIC that's proof beyond a reasonable doubt in my eyes).

[trickblue]

I feel like there's a reason Joe isn't being indicted on any charges and other Penn State officials are.

C'mon Roy... you know the answer to that as well as everyone else...

He's JOE PATERNO...

[RoyTheHammer]

You are have your opinions, some of which i agree with, but the bottom line to me is everybody is very quick to judge an 85 year old man who they think knows everything and anything that is going on just because he "is" PSU, when in reality he hasn't been anything more than a figurehead for over a decade now and i seriously doubt his mental condition is in tip top shape. Guy is almost 90 years old, it wouldn't suprise me that he wasn't aware of alot of what was going on, and again.. none of us has the information that's relevant to judge the man here, i don't expect that to stop some though.

He did know of at least the one incident though, and although he reported it, im also shocked and confused as to why he didn't take it further. I would love to know what information he actually had and why he didn't take it to the police. Saying he had all the information and he didn't go to police because of his own personal legacy is just straight bs though.

[trickblue]

You are have your opinions, some of which i agree with, but the bottom line to me is everybody is very quick to judge an 85 year old man who they think knows everything and anything that is going on just because he "is" PSU, when in reality he hasn't been anything more than a figurehead for over a decade now and i seriously doubt his mental condition is in tip top shape. Guy is almost 90 years old, it wouldn't suprise me that he wasn't aware of alot of what was going on, and again.. none of us has the information that's relevant to judge the man here, i don't expect that to stop some though.

He did know of at least the one incident though, and although he reported it, im also shocked and confused as to why he didn't take it further. I would love to know what information he actually had and why he didn't take it to the police. Saying he had all the information and he didn't go to police because of his own personal legacy is just straight bs though.

From what I read, he reported to Curly and Shultz... they are all three saying the same thing but only two are getting busted...

I have no vendetta against Paterno, in fact if you've been keeping up with the whole thread, I mention where my father greatly admired him and I was raised to do the same...

It's a sad situation, but he obviously did the bare minimum required of him in this situation...

[Yakuza Rich]

My assumptions are slight in nature. One of the issues we face in our society is that is has been accepted as fact that you cannot prosecute on circumstantial evidence. That we need to have 'concrete proof', usually in the way of DNA testing, to prosecute. Which is false. Cases get tried and people get convincted on circumstantial evidence all of the time.

The point being...of course I have some assumptions. But, that doesn't mean my assumptions are illogical or wrong. Nor does it mean that we can't deem the extent as to what Joe Pa did.

I can only assume that Joe Pa knew about this in 1998 because:

1. Sandusky was the prized D-Coordinator and was publicly stated to be the heir apparent.

2. The DA's office knew about the incident and decided to not prosecute.

3. It's being alleged that Joe Pa. said 'you will never be the head coach here' and Sandusky...the prized D-Coordinator and heir apparent, suddenly retired.

Even then...I'm still giving Paterno the benefit of the doubt, although I find it very odd that he would allow him to be a member of the program after retirement.


But once ANOTHER incident happened in 2002, all bets are off.

Paterno knew.

He did the bare minimum which comes off like just enough to protect himself.

Paterno said that McQuery was *visibly* shakened when he reported it.

If you don't think Paterno knew about that in 1998 and then wasn't sure if the 2002 incident was true, then I've got beachfront property in Kansas that you may be interested in purchasing.









YR

[Hoofbite]

Matt Millen got all shook up on ESPN earlier.

Skip to about 4:00

3bc4raMo4QU#t=240s

[Rogah]

You are have your opinions, some of which i agree with, but the bottom line to me is everybody is very quick to judge an 85 year old man who they think knows everything and anything that is going on just because he "is" PSU, when in reality he hasn't been anything more than a figurehead for over a decade now and i seriously doubt his mental condition is in tip top shape. Guy is almost 90 years old, it wouldn't suprise me that he wasn't aware of alot of what was going on, and again.. none of us has the information that's relevant to judge the man here, i don't expect that to stop some though.First of all, I think it's pretty insulting to play the "doddering old man" card. There's no evidence that Paterno is suffering from any form of dementia - and if there was, then that's a whole other matter where we should investigate why such a man is still coaching a major college football program. This incident is not like he can't remember where he put his car keys; these allegations ain't some crap you just forget.

Second of all, we're talking about incidents from roughly 10 years ago. So instead of being "almost 90", we're talking about him when he was 75.
He did know of at least the one incident though, and although he reported it, im also shocked and confused as to why he didn't take it further. I would love to know what information he actually had and why he didn't take it to the police. Saying he had all the information and he didn't go to police because of his own personal legacy is just straight bs though.Telling your boss is not considered "reporting it."

[Hoofbite]

Scumbags. The whole lot. Just indefensible.

Anyone who had a smidgeon of suspicion and didn't take it somewhere should share in the responsibility.

[Yakuza Rich]

9th man comes forward about being molested by Sandusky.


http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/08/ninth-man-comes-forward-claiming-to-be-a-sandusky-victim





YR

[WoodysGirl]

Telling your boss is not considered "reporting it."Money quote...

"sexual nature with a kid" should be immediately reported to the police. Period

Scumbags. The whole lot. Just indefensible.

Anyone who had a smidgeon of suspicion and didn't take it somewhere should share in the responsibility.Agreed.

9th man comes forward about being molested by Sandusky.


http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/08/ninth-man-comes-forward-claiming-to-be-a-sandusky-victim





YR
This is getting ridiculous..

[cowboyeric8]

Money quote...

"sexual nature with a kid" should be immediately reported to the police. Period

Agreed.


This is getting ridiculous..

Just a sad sad deal. I'm sorry but anybody that knew at all is guilty in my eyes. Just scum.

[Kangaroo]

Kind of like the Roman Catholic church.

I would agree with that statement and it is worse for them because of what they are suppose to represent. I will leave it at that as to prevent breaking certain forum rules.

[cowboyeric8]

I would agree with that statement and it is worse for them because of what they are suppose to represent. I will leave it at that as to prevent breaking certain forum rules.

I completely agree. And I'm a devout Catholic. That situation was inexcusable much like this one.

[Hoofbite]

This guy's rape count is getting close to a dozen and nobody knew...........

[burmafrd]

Joe knew a child was involved. That is clear. So anyone trying to claim he should not have done more is full of crap.

[RoyTheHammer]

I think its funny that everyone is condemning Joe when police knew of Sandusky's actions as early as 1998 and nothing was done about it until now.

Comdemn our government and shoddy police work.

[RoyTheHammer]

This guy's rape count is getting close to a dozen and nobody knew...........

The police and DA office knew.. as far back as 1998.

[trickblue]

9th man comes forward about being molested by Sandusky.


http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/08/ninth-man-comes-forward-claiming-to-be-a-sandusky-victim





YR

There will be plenty more... traditionally, serial offenders are charged with a fraction of the crimes they committed because of the sheer volume of evidence involved. They get enough to put them away for good...

I would imaging there are dozens of boys involved dating back some 20-30 years...

[Kangaroo]

The police and DA office knew.. as far back as 1998.


The DA back then needs o be called out they wonder why people do not trust the police or government to do their jobs we see it in cases like this every time a systematic break down at all levels and i think the DA at the time should take a lot of heat for this.

[Hoofbite]

I think its funny that everyone is condemning Joe when police knew of Sandusky's actions as early as 1998 and nothing was done about it until now.

Comdemn our government and shoddy police work.

Why should Joe get a pass if the police don't?

They can't both be responsible?

All who knew are trash.

[Manwiththeplan]

I think its funny that everyone is condemning Joe when police knew of Sandusky's actions as early as 1998 and nothing was done about it until now.

Comdemn our government and shoddy police work.

why can't we condem them all? obviously not to the same degree, but there is enough guilt to blame the accuser, the police, the DA, Joe Paterno, the AD, University President and possibly more.

[RoyTheHammer]

The police and DA office knew.. as far back as 1998.

They also knew he founded a charity organization that had Sandusky in close contact with young boys all the time


.. and still nothing was done.

But yea, this is all Joe Pa's fault because he "was told" about one of the incidents, even though he went right to his superior with the information and a meeting was held the next day between Joe's superior and the assistant who actually witnessed the crime.

[trickblue]

The DA back then needs o be called out they wonder why people do not trust the police or government to do their jobs we see it in cases like this every time a systematic break down at all levels and i think the DA at the time should take a lot of heat for this.

That DA has been missing without a trace since 2005... he was recently declared dead for the family's sake...

[cowboyeric8]

They also knew he founded a charity organization that had Sandusky in close contact with young boys all the time


.. and still nothing was done.

But yea, this is all Joe Pa's fault because he "was told" about one of the incidents, even though he went right to his superior with the information and a meeting was held the next day between Joe's superior and the assistant who actually witnessed the crime.

Nobody is saying it is all Joe Pa's fault. We are saying anyone who knew should be held accountable.

[Yakuza Rich]

The DA back then needs o be called out they wonder why people do not trust the police or government to do their jobs we see it in cases like this every time a systematic break down at all levels and i think the DA at the time should take a lot of heat for this.

The DA is dead...or missing. Ray Gricar.

And there is STILL a difference.

The DA only knew about the 1 incident in 1998. And they may have had their reasons for *legally* not being able to indict Sandusky.

However, Penn State allowed Sandusky to continue to stay on campus and have FULL ACCESS to the facilities AND allowed him to continue to bring young boys to the campus for 4 more years.

Then in 2002, he was caught raping a 10 year old boy and Penn State knew about it, but the police did not.

And the 'punishment' was that Sandusky was allowed to STAY ON CAMPUS, but he couldn't bring young boys with him. And apparently he violated THAT in 2007 with bringing another child to a game.

AND THEY STILL ALLOWED HIM TO STAY ON CAMPUS AND RUN FOOTBALL CAMPS UNTIL 2010.

Anybody blaming the DA for not being able to indict Sandusky in 1998, when we don't know if he had the evidence to legally prosecute and passing the blame from Paterno is ridiculous.

It's two completely different circumstances.







YR

[RoyTheHammer]

why can't we condem them all? obviously not to the same degree, but there is enough guilt to blame the accuser, the police, the DA, Joe Paterno, the AD, University President and possibly more.

Joe was told by a grad student that his longtime friend was doing something sexual with a little boy one time.

He went straight to his superior with the news and a meeting was arrainged the next day between his superior and the student and Joe was told by his superior it was being taken care of.

Should he have gone to the police first? Yes.

But he told university officials right away, even though it was his longtime friend who was being accused.

The only fault Joe has right now in my mind is that he went to university officials instead of the police. How should he have known that they would do nothing? All of them?

Even if he had told police, who's to say they would do anything about it?

Would you all still condemn him if he had told police and they had done nothing about it again?

[ConcordCowboy]

Report: Penn St. planning Paterno's exit

Penn State University officials are discussing how to end the historic career of football coach Joe Paterno after the school was rocked by child sex abuse charges leveled against former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, The New York Times reported Tuesday.


The university is reportedly still hashing out how the 84-year-old Paterno's tenure will end, but have concluded that he will not be back in 2012 for a 47th season....


http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-planning-Joe-Paterno-exit-amid-sexual-abuse-scandal-110811?GT1=39002

[Yakuza Rich]

The MAJOR fault with Paterno is that he knew about the 1998 and 2002 incident and Sandusky was never removed from the campus, the football program, or the football camp for kids.

As bad as not going to the police and not following up is...allowing Sandusky to continue to have full access to the campus, the football program and to continue coaching the camp is mind blowing.

Paterno could have gone to the police and the police may not have had enough evidence to legally arrest Sandusky.

But, in the world of Penn State football, he has ALL of the authority.

Sandusky's continued presence with the program after '98 and '02 is the biggest indictment against Paterno's actions.









YR

[DOUBLE WING]

Joe was told by a grad student that his longtime friend was doing something sexual with a little boy one time.

He went straight to his superior with the news and a meeting was arrainged the next day between his superior and the student and Joe was told by his superior it was being taken care of.

Should he have gone to the police first? Yes.

But he told university officials right away, even though it was his longtime friend who was being accused.

The only fault Joe has right now in my mind is that he went to university officials instead of the police. How should he have known that they would do nothing? All of them?

Even if he had told police, who's to say they would do anything about it?

Would you all still condemn him if he had told police and they had done nothing about it again?

Why didn't Paterno follow up? Why didn't he ban him from practice/football buildings/campus? Sandusky was there LAST WEEK. There's no excuse for that and that's on the President, AD and PATERNO.

[RoyTheHammer]

The DA only knew about the 1 incident in 1998. And they may have had their reasons for *legally* not being able to indict Sandusky.

However, Penn State allowed Sandusky to continue to stay on campus and have FULL ACCESS to the facilities AND allowed him to continue to bring young boys to the campus for 4 more years.

Then in 2002, he was caught raping a 10 year old boy and Penn State knew about it, but the police did not.

And the 'punishment' was that Sandusky was allowed to STAY ON CAMPUS, but he couldn't bring young boys with him. And apparently he violated THAT in 2007 with bringing another child to a game.

AND THEY STILL ALLOWED HIM TO STAY ON CAMPUS AND RUN FOOTBALL CAMPS UNTIL 2010.

Anybody blaming the DA for not being able to indict Sandusky in 1998, when we don't know if he had the evidence to legally prosecute and passing the blame from Paterno is ridiculous.

It's two completely different circumstances.

YR

See, this is the ridiculous statment. Law enforcement and state officials knew as far back as 1998 of an incident of a sexual nature with a man who founded a charity that puts him in close contact with young boys all the time, and a young boy!

Yet all those years they never thought to look into the incident? Even if they couldn't charge him at the time "legally", that doesn't matter one damn bit.

Also, you saying that im trying to pass the blame "from Paterno to the DA" is nothing but silly bs too. ITS NOT JOE PA'S BLAME TO BEGIN WITH.

He's not the one who decides to let Sandusky stay around campus or not! He's not the athletic director, he's not the president of the university, he's the football coach, and from the time he heard about the incident on, he had no professional relationship with the man at all. He wasn't on the football staff, and from what it sounds, he had cut ties with Sandusky after telling him he'd never be the head coach at Penn State. Yet you continue to act like its Paterno who let him stay around campus and facilitated Sandusky doing the things that he did, when all of that is complete garbage.

[ConcordCowboy]

Who in a million years would have thought that Tressel and Paterno would lose their jobs in the same year?

Not a Soul

[trickblue]

Why didn't Paterno follow up? Why didn't he ban him from practice/football buildings/campus? Sandusky was there LAST WEEK. There's no excuse for that and that's on the President, AD and PATERNO.

Add to that... Penn State message boards have known this is coming since March. Over the weekend, I read several threads started 8 months ago saying this was coming, they just didn't know when...

Hard for me to believe University Officials didn't know...

Sundusky also called the Co-Author of his book in April telling him this was coming...

btw... for those of you that didn't know, Sandusky's book is available on Amazon... the title?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41y2pGszPVL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41y2pGszPVL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

[ConcordCowboy]

The MAJOR fault with Paterno is that he knew about the 1998 and 2002 incident and Sandusky was never removed from the campus, the football program, or the football camp for kids.

As bad as not going to the police and not following up is...allowing Sandusky to continue to have full access to the campus, the football program and to continue coaching the camp is mind blowing.

Paterno could have gone to the police and the police may not have had enough evidence to legally arrest Sandusky.

But, in the world of Penn State football, he has ALL of the authority.

Sandusky's continued presence with the program after '98 and '02 is the biggest indictment against Paterno's actions.




YR

Report: Sandusky on campus last week


Former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky had access to the team's weight room as recently as last week, a person familiar with the situation said a just hours before Joe Paterno was to gave his first news conference since his former protege was charged with child sex abuse...


http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Penn-State-Jerry-Sandusky-was-on-campus-last-week-working-out-110811

[Yakuza Rich]

See, this is the ridiculous statment. Law enforcement and state officials knew as far back as 1998 of an incident of a sexual nature with a man who founded a charity that puts him in close contact with young boys all the time, and a young boy!

Yet all those years they never thought to look into the incident? Even if they couldn't charge him at the time "legally", that doesn't matter one damn bit.

It's not ridiculous.

The police LEGALLY CANNOT follow Sandusky's every move when the DA has decided that he cannot indict him.

I'm guessing the DA thought the phone call from the boy to Sandusky wasn't strong enough to indict him and they probably had no physical evidence at the time.


Also, you saying that im trying to pass the blame "from Paterno to the DA" is nothing but silly bs too. ITS NOT JOE PA'S BLAME TO BEGIN WITH.

He's not the one who decides to let Sandusky stay around campus or not! He's not the athletic director, he's not the president of the university, he's the football coach, and from the time he heard about the incident on, he had no professional relationship with the man at all.


Wow.

If you really believe this, then you are the biggest blind lemming for Paterno out there.

Congrats, that's a wonderful tat to have.








YR

[RoyTheHammer]

why can't we condem them all?

You can.. and should. Yet, all i see in this thread from most is how Joe Pa knew Sandusky was a kiddie raper and knew everything he was doing behind closed doors for years and was Sandusky's booking agent for little boys to be raped.

Joe Paterno's only mistake was that the one incident he was informed of by a student, that he didn't see, he told the wrong officials. It was a mistake, but what he's being accused of goes far beyond that. I don't believe for one second he knew Sandusky was raping little boys or anything close to that. There's no evidence or information to suggest that at all, no matter how hard some want to try to create it.

[DOUBLE WING]

See, this is the ridiculous statment. Law enforcement and state officials knew as far back as 1998 of an incident of a sexual nature with a man who founded a charity that puts him in close contact with young boys all the time, and a young boy!

Yet all those years they never thought to look into the incident? Even if they couldn't charge him at the time "legally", that doesn't matter one damn bit.

Also, you saying that im trying to pass the blame "from Paterno to the DA" is nothing but silly bs too. ITS NOT JOE PA'S BLAME TO BEGIN WITH.

He's not the one who decides to let Sandusky stay around campus or not! He's not the athletic director, he's not the president of the university, he's the football coach, and from the time he heard about the incident on, he had no professional relationship with the man at all. He wasn't on the football staff, and from what it sounds, he had cut ties with Sandusky after telling him he'd never be the head coach at Penn State. Yet you continue to act like its Paterno who let him stay around campus and facilitated Sandusky doing the things that he did, when all of that is complete garbage.

With all due respect, you have your head buried in the sand. Paterno is arguably the most powerful figure on the Penn State campus. If Paterno wants someone banned from campus they're banned from campus. Nobody is going to tell him no.

There's an amusing story that people around State College know from earlier in the decade. Curley and Spanier went to Paterno's house to talk about making a head coaching change because the team was underperforming. Paterno basically told them to piss off and they left with their tails between their legs.

[RoyTheHammer]

It's not ridiculous.

The police LEGALLY CANNOT follow Sandusky's every move when the DA has decided that he cannot indict him.

I'm guessing the DA thought the phone call from the boy to Sandusky wasn't strong enough to indict him and they probably had no physical evidence at the time.


Wow.

If you really believe this, then you are the biggest blind lemming for Paterno out there.

Congrats, that's a wonderful tat to have.








YR


I really couldn't care less what you believe. Joe Pa is the football coach. Sandusky wasn't on the staff. He is in no position to ban the man from the entire campus. He wasn't involved in any aspect of the Penn State football program.

[RoyTheHammer]

With all due respect, you have your head buried in the sand. Paterno is arguably the most powerful figure on the Penn State campus. If Paterno wants someone banned from campus they're banned from campus. Nobody is going to tell him no.

There's an amusing story that people around State College know from earlier in the decade. Curley and Spanier went to Paterno's house to talk about making a head coaching change because the team was underperforming. Paterno basically told them to piss off and they left with their tails between their legs.

Im well aware of that story, and its merit. However, the two things arn't related as much as people from outside of the area think they are.

Paterno is a powerful figure, but he doesn't get to do whatever the hell he wants without the approval of the board or University President. He controls the football program as much as he wants, but situations not involving the football program arn't his to control in whatever way he sees fit.

[DOUBLE WING]

Im well aware of that story, and its merit. However, the two things arn't related as much as people from outside of the area think they are.

Paterno is a powerful figure, but he doesn't get to do whatever the hell he wants without the approval of the board or University President. He controls the football program as much as he wants, but situations not involving the football program arn't his to control in whatever way he sees fit.

So if he told the AD he wanted someone banned from the football facilities, or banned from his own practices, they would tell him no?

Get real.

[joseephuss]

I don't see how anyone can come in here and say with absolute certainty that Paterno doesn't deserve the criticism he is getting. Every single person involved in this horrible situation should be ridiculed and is deserving of some sort of punishment. That doesn't mean jail time for everyone, but there are other forms and levels of punishment. For example, losing one's job is punishment. Joe Paterno falls into that group of everyone involved. He was a part of this and so are several other people.

[DOUBLE WING]

You can.. and should. Yet, all i see in this thread from most is how Joe Pa knew Sandusky was a kiddie raper and knew everything he was doing behind closed doors for years and was Sandusky's booking agent for little boys to be raped.

Joe Paterno's only mistake was that the one incident he was informed of by a student, that he didn't see, he told the wrong officials. It was a mistake, but what he's being accused of goes far beyond that. I don't believe for one second he knew Sandusky was raping little boys or anything close to that. There's no evidence or information to suggest that at all, no matter how hard some want to try to create it.

Paterno did the absolute minimum required to absolve himself legally. Apparently you think that was enough. Would you think that if your son was involved?

[MichaelWinicki]

Paterno did the absolute minimum required to absolve himself legally. Apparently you think that was enough. Would you think that if your son was involved?

That's the one right there.

Or if Paterno's son was involved. I doubt the first (and only) thing he would have done is run to the AD's office.

[Aggie87]

The only fault Joe has right now in my mind is that he went to university officials instead of the police. How should he have known that they would do nothing? All of them?

Even if he had told police, who's to say they would do anything about it?

Would you all still condemn him if he had told police and they had done nothing about it again?


Joe should have gone to the police. Period. Regardless of what the police ultimately would have done or not done.

That is his MAJOR mistake in this whole scenario - whether he only knew about one child rape or possibly multiple victims.

He completely did the wrong thing, morally. And he has to know that his inaction probably caused further child rapes.

For that alone, he deserves to be removed from his job.

[burmafrd]

Joe was told by a grad student that his longtime friend was doing something sexual with a little boy one time.

He went straight to his superior with the news and a meeting was arrainged the next day between his superior and the student and Joe was told by his superior it was being taken care of.

Should he have gone to the police first? Yes.

But he told university officials right away, even though it was his longtime friend who was being accused.

The only fault Joe has right now in my mind is that he went to university officials instead of the police. How should he have known that they would do nothing? All of them?

Even if he had told police, who's to say they would do anything about it?

Would you all still condemn him if he had told police and they had done nothing about it again?

He knew a child was involved and he did not go to the police. You can swallow that but I sure can't.

[Rogah]

Joe Paterno's only mistake was that the one incident he was informed of by a student, that he didn't see, he told the wrong officials. It was a mistake, but what he's being accused of goes far beyond that. I don't believe for one second he knew Sandusky was raping little boys or anything close to that. There's no evidence or information to suggest that at all, no matter how hard some want to try to create it.Actually there's plenty of evidence to suggest that that is indeed the case. Not just circumstantial evidence, but the information contained in the grand jury's Findings of Fact, which is considered a legal finding beyond all reasonable doubt.

[Rogah]

He knew a child was involved and he did not go to the police. You can swallow that but I sure can't.Amen. I can actually understand (and perhaps even forgive) going to the AD first to determine how to handle the whole thing - unless the decision how to handle it is "let's do everything we can to coverup the entire sordid affair and hope to God the police never find out."

[realtick]

Joe knew a child was involved. That is clear. So anyone trying to claim he should not have done more is full of crap.

RoyHammer apparently disagrees with you.

[2233boys]

The MAJOR fault with Paterno is that he knew about the 1998 and 2002 incident and Sandusky was never removed from the campus, the football program, or the football camp for kids.

As bad as not going to the police and not following up is...allowing Sandusky to continue to have full access to the campus, the football program and to continue coaching the camp is mind blowing.

Paterno could have gone to the police and the police may not have had enough evidence to legally arrest Sandusky.

But, in the world of Penn State football, he has ALL of the authority.

Sandusky's continued presence with the program after '98 and '02 is the biggest indictment against Paterno's actions.









YRClarification

Sandusky Retired in 99 after the first investigation. He was no longer part of the football program after that time. Sundusky's access to the university was through his foundation and camps he held. As part of his retirement package he was given an office, professor emeritus status, and allowed access to the University. University officials said he was no longer allowed on PSU main campus with children after the 2002 incident.

[ZeroClub]

As far as Paterno is concerned, I don't totally trust the current information and assumptions about what he knew when.

For example, I don't know enough about the then graduate assistant and his character to be able to gauge the accuracy / reliability of his statements.

Sometimes what appears to be true later turns out not to be true.

For this reason I'm slow to condemn Paterno.

However if it turns out that Paterno really did know what was going on, but did next to nothing about it, that's despicable. Obviously.

[Rogah]

As far as Paterno is concerned, I don't totally trust the current information and assumptions about what he knew when.

For example, I don't know enough about the then graduate assistant and his character to be able to gauge the accuracy / reliability of his statements. "The Grand Jury finds the graduate assistant's testimony to be extremely credible." - Direct Quote from the Findings of Fact, page 8, released earlier this week by the Grand Jury investigating these allegations.

That's good enough for me.

[WoodysGirl]

I just read the indictment in it's entirety.. I'm even more thoroughly disgusted. How no one stood up for these kids is simply mind-boggling.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html

[2233boys]

I just read the indictment in it's entirement.. I'm even more thoroughly disgusted. How no one stood up for these kids is simply mind-boggling.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html

The information in the indictment made me physically ill.

[Manwiththeplan]

Would you all still condemn him if he had told police and they had done nothing about it again?

Yes. If the Police do nothing, ban him from the campus. Ban him from anything Penn State, he could've done that, but also chose to do nothing.

Should he go to jail for that, no, but he deserves what ever fall from grace that's going to occur following this.

If this were you're son, and he never went to the police, and allowed this man to continue preying on other little boys in the name of Penn State, would you still defend him?

[Chocolate Lab]

I just read the indictment in it's entirety.. I'm even more thoroughly disgusted. How no one stood up for these kids is simply mind-boggling.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html

The information in the indictment made me physically ill.

Couldn't even get halfway through page 3. :puke:

Special place in the deepest corner of hell for you, Sandusky.

[Manwiththeplan]

I really couldn't care less what you believe. Joe Pa is the football coach. Sandusky wasn't on the staff. He is in no position to ban the man from the entire campus. He wasn't involved in any aspect of the Penn State football program.

Please, if Joe told the University President I don't want to see him on campus again, he would've gotten his way. Not to mention he could've threatened to go to the press.

Anyone from the Graduate Assistant who himself didn't go to the police himself, to the University President should be sick with themself.

[2233boys]

Couldn't even get halfway through page 3. :puke:

Special place in the deepest corner of hell for you, Sandusky.

It got much worse.

[Yakuza Rich]

I just read the indictment in it's entirety.. I'm even more thoroughly disgusted. How no one stood up for these kids is simply mind-boggling.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/documents/sandusky-grand-jury-report11052011.html

I just read it all myself.

Tough to read.

One of the tough ones was the part of Jim Calhoun who said he had been through the Korean War, but that was not nearly as bad as what he saw Sandusky doing.

And that the janitors thought they would all lose their jobs if Calhoun reported it.

And I don't care what anybody says, there are *plenty* more victims out there. He started the 2nd Mile charity back in the late 70's. Tough to believe this just happened to start in '96 or so.

Lastly, after reading the report, I have no doubt that Paterno knew about all of this back in '98.

I think he knew, but thought it was 'acting inappropriately' and just told Sandusky that he wasn't going to be the HC over it and kinda left it at that. Then when McQuery reported the incident in 2002, he did the bare minimum to cover his own arse.

I think most of the loyal Penn State and Joe Pa. supporters know this. It actually reminds me a bit of Chris Benoit's situation and what Chris Jericho said 'I love Chris Benoit, but I hate what he did.'

It's tough to hold a person that you may have respected for the longest time and then learn of a situation in which they acted selfishly and poorly. Particularly whent he situation is like this one.

My guess in all of this...

Paterno coaches Saturday and steps down on Tuesday.

I think the school wants to have him coach out the season, but the risk of others coming forward is too great. And for every person that comes forward, it's like a proverbial machete taking a swipe at the integrity of their institution.









YR

[Rogah]

I think the school wants to have him coach out the season, but the risk of others coming forward is too great. And for every person that comes forward, it's like a proverbial machete taking a swipe at the integrity of their institution.My theory is they're going to let him coach this Saturday, which will be his final home game. They may let him finish out the regular season, then allow him to retire with some dignity intact.

[Yakuza Rich]

My theory is they're going to let him coach this Saturday, which will be his final home game. They may let him finish out the regular season, then allow him to retire with some dignity intact.

It wouldn't shock me because they've handled this about as poorly as possible, ever step of the way...so continuing to handle it poorly is probably likely.

I just think that they wouldn't be accounting for nearly 20 years before some of this came to light. And for every person that steps forward, it just becomes more and more awful.






YR

[Hoofbite]

I just read it all myself.

Tough to read.

One of the tough ones was the part of Jim Calhoun who said he had been through the Korean War, but that was not nearly as bad as what he saw Sandusky doing.

And that the janitors thought they would all lose their jobs if Calhoun reported it.

And I don't care what anybody says, there are *plenty* more victims out there. He started the 2nd Mile charity back in the late 70's. Tough to believe this just happened to start in '96 or so.

Lastly, after reading the report, I have no doubt that Paterno knew about all of this back in '98.

I think he knew, but thought it was 'acting inappropriately' and just told Sandusky that he wasn't going to be the HC over it and kinda left it at that. Then when McQuery reported the incident in 2002, he did the bare minimum to cover his own arse.

I think most of the loyal Penn State and Joe Pa. supporters know this. It actually reminds me a bit of Chris Benoit's situation and what Chris Jericho said 'I love Chris Benoit, but I hate what he did.'

It's tough to hold a person that you may have respected for the longest time and then learn of a situation in which they acted selfishly and poorly. Particularly whent he situation is like this one.

My guess in all of this...

Paterno coaches Saturday and steps down on Tuesday.

I think the school wants to have him coach out the season, but the risk of others coming forward is too great. And for every person that comes forward, it's like a proverbial machete taking a swipe at the integrity of their institution.

YR

The whole thing is disgusting.

Simple as that.

Paterno knew and did next to nothing, as did numerous other people.

My guess, this whole situation will cost the Penn State program a hefty amount and a whole lot of trouble.

[Cajuncowboy]

Don't know how true this is but I talked to a friend tonight who is in the media in Williamsport and has had some unofficial conversations with people at the school. that told me that it is very likely Joepa coaches this Saturday and then will turn the head coaching over to his son Jay for the remainder of the year.

There is some speculation that some don't want Jay to take over because it is too close to his dad and the school would like to begin to distance themselves from this scandal as soon as possible. If this indeed does happen they may turn to Dick Anderson or mike McQueary.

Either way, it really is a shame that the entire body of work that Joe Paterno built at Penn State is going to come down based on what a pervert did, and what two officials did to cover it up. Had they not covered it up when Paterno went to them and done the right thing this wouldn't be as bad for all concerned. I am not excusing Joepa for not going to the cops himself after he knew the school didn't do anything, but I don't think tarnishing the entirety of his legacy is warranted.

[2233boys]

Don't know how true this is but I talked to a friend tonight who is in the media in Williamsport and has had some unofficial conversations with people at the school. that told me that it is very likely Joepa coaches this Saturday and then will turn the head coaching over to his son Jay for the remainder of the year.

There is some speculation that some don't want Jay to take over because it is too close to his dad and the school would like to begin to distance themselves from this scandal as soon as possible. If this indeed does happen they may turn to Dick Anderson or mike McQueary.

Either way, it really is a shame that the entire body of work that Joe Paterno built at Penn State is going to come down based on what a pervert did, and what two officials did to cover it up. Had they not covered it up when Paterno went to them and done the right thing this wouldn't be as bad for all concerned. I am not excusing Joepa for not going to the cops himself after he knew the school didn't do anything, but I don't think tarnishing the entirety of his legacy is warranted.

Don't want Jay because he sucks. I would wager that Saturday is his last game too. I think an interm coach would be Tom Bradly or Galen Hall

[RoyTheHammer]

Joe should have gone to the police. Period. Regardless of what the police ultimately would have done or not done.

Agreed. Just like all the other PSU officials that knew about this.

The difference being, he had the least amount of information as to what exactly was going on than any of the rest of them. He was told about one incident, from a student, about some vague sexual activities.

Again, he went straight to university officials with the information, instead of law enforcement officials. That was his only mistake.

I just laugh at the people acting like he knew the whole time that Sandusky was a child raper and act like he was making arraingments for the guy or something.

The guy has done so much for the college that he didn't have to do. He lives and breathes to help the students there succeed. Anyone who thinks he clearly knew that Sandusky was the person he was is insane. There's absolutely no information to support that at all.

The biggest failure here was school officials, the charity officials, and the DA/law enforcement. Before we even think or contemplate removing Joe from his position, there should be a much bigger discussion about the President of the entire university, who knew about this for awhile and didn't say a word to police.

[Yakuza Rich]

.
I just laugh at the people acting like he knew the whole time that Sandusky was a child raper and act like he was making arraingments for the guy or something.

Except, people aren't saying that. So you're laughing at figments of your imagination.

People do think he knew before 2002 and that he let it go.

Read the Grand Jury report. One of the victims says that Sandusky had a meeting with Paterno in 1998 and was visibly upset that he was told he wasn't going to be the head coach. And then Sandusky just happens to retire.


The guy has done so much for the college that he didn't have to do.

So?

It doesn't make up for the fact that he did next to nothing.

He didn't even confront Sandusky in 2002 or apparently after 2002.

He's supposed to be a guy that teaches kids things like integrity and courage. Yet, was completely afraid to do anything more than report it to his superior and stick his head in the sand when Sandusky was still around the school and in the 2nd Mile Program...which Paterno is a member of the board.

Part of integrity and courage is doing stuff that you don't want to do, but you know is the right thing to do.

Nobody is saying that it wouldn't be incredibly difficult to do this. But, when face with the toughest decision in his life to make, he failed miserably.


Anyone who thinks he clearly knew that Sandusky was the person he was is insane. There's absolutely no information to support that at all.

The Grand Jury report says differently. He knew in 2002. And it's pretty easy to connect the dots and he knew in 1998.

I think it's obvious unless you are some blind Paterno lemming.







YR

[RoyTheHammer]

Yes. If the Police do nothing, ban him from the campus. Ban him from anything Penn State, he could've done that, but also chose to do nothing.

Should he go to jail for that, no, but he deserves what ever fall from grace that's going to occur following this.

If this were you're son, and he never went to the police, and allowed this man to continue preying on other little boys in the name of Penn State, would you still defend him?

If my son were the one raped in the incident Joe was told about, and the graduate assistant saw it, reported it to Joe, didn't go to the police himself, Joe went to tell university officials about it right away, but failed to go to police as well, the university officials said "we'll take care of it Joe", they had a meeting with the grad assistent, found out exactly what happened, told the president of the university exactly what happened, and no one ever went to the police with the knowledge they had..

..the last person i'd be upset with in this situation is Joe. He's the only one besides the grad assistant who even told the higher ups about it, even when he wasn't sure what exactly happened.

Yet most here are acting like Joe should face the most blame out of anyone, when his only real mistake was telling the wrong officials what was told to him.

As most realize though, everyone who knew and didn't tell police should be ashamed of themselves, but i really have to believe based on the grand jury information and all the other experiences and knowledge i have of Joe.. that he didn't know what exactly happened or how serious it really was.


To be honest.. after the way the police handled the first incident reported in 1998, i sincerely doubt they'd have done anything if Joe had gone to them and said "one of my grad students told me they saw a guy raping a little boy. Grad students word against Sandusky's.. that case would have been thrown out too and Sandusky would have gotten away with it again like the sick **** he is.

[Hoofbite]

Don't know how true this is but I talked to a friend tonight who is in the media in Williamsport and has had some unofficial conversations with people at the school. that told me that it is very likely Joepa coaches this Saturday and then will turn the head coaching over to his son Jay for the remainder of the year.

There is some speculation that some don't want Jay to take over because it is too close to his dad and the school would like to begin to distance themselves from this scandal as soon as possible. If this indeed does happen they may turn to Dick Anderson or mike McQueary.

Either way, it really is a shame that the entire body of work that Joe Paterno built at Penn State is going to come down based on what a pervert did, and what two officials did to cover it up. Had they not covered it up when Paterno went to them and done the right thing this wouldn't be as bad for all concerned. I am not excusing Joepa for not going to the cops himself after he knew the school didn't do anything, but I don't think tarnishing the entirety of his legacy is warranted.

Sorry to be a little blunt but **** Joe Paterno's legacy.

Before I go on, I'm not laying sole blame on Paterno. There's plenty of people who are to blame but it's pretty obvious that he knew what was going on and did next to nothing to stop it. The fact that he got zero results when telling his superiors should have pissed him off enough to take it public the very next day. All who knew are to blame and I hope those who kept it quiet all spend a little time in the slammer with a dude serving life who hasn't had a cellmate in over a decade.

But back to Paterno. His legacy can be smeared in dog **** for all I care. He doesn't deserve a legacy. I don't care if it were determined that he was the least responsible person in the matter, the fact that he's responsible at all is enough for his legacy to be buried ASAP.

How about the 9 (and counting) lives that are ****ed up because Paterno sat idly by and let this monster run free. Joe Paterno is as much an official at Penn State as the AD or any person he "reports" to. He should have been a human being and put a stop to it. If it were his son who was being molested, I wonder if he simply reports it to the officials. I don't care if this pedophile works / worked for Penn State or not, Paterno had a responsibility as a human to notify the police of his actions.

I didn't have much to say on the subject but after getting a couple pages through the document, this whole situation is just deplorable. This guy took advantage of disadvantaged kids to satisfy his sick and twisted desires. Like YR said, this probably goes back years and it really wouldn't shock me if this guy set up those foundations to serve as a way of getting close enough to act on his perversions.

The fact that Paterno didn't take this to the police after notifying the school, regardless of the school's action, is just despicable. What was he expecting? Was he afraid of screwing up a potential forced resignation and severance package? He should have walked out of that meeting and straight into the police department but he didn't. He washed his hands of it.

I hope they just erase Joe Paterno from the history books. I'm serious. In the grand scheme of things, his legacy should be the last thing considered at this point. It's clear he knew of it, the only question now is "how long"?

I don't want to hear, "he told school officials. He notified the school". Bull**** and everyone knows it so just get all the **** the way out of here with that nonsense. Because he didn't take further action, more kids were molested and nothing came of it so he may as well have done nothing at all. Seriously, he basically did nothing. He certainly didn't take the action that any of us would expect him to take if it were our kids. I challenge someone to say they'd be just fine with a grown man turning his back on their kids like that by notifying a school official, seeing nothing come of it and just moving on down the road as though it never happened.

Someone please sit here and say that's a form of action that you'd accept of another human being to take if your kids were repeatedly raped. I dare anyone to take that stance.

In all honesty, Paterno should be thanking his lucky stars if all he loses is his legacy. He should be included in it. Like just notifying a supervisor just frees someone of all guilt. We'd expect more from the guy serving us fries at McDonalds, let alone one of the most well respected and tenured members of college football. Well, he was well respected. I hope he taken to the ringer over this.

Again, Paterno is not the only one to blame but how anyone can free him from guilt even to a minimal extent is absolutely mind boggling.

[Blast From The Past]

Yeah... they just declared him dead a couple of months ago.... weird story...And it gets weirder as his brother Roy committed suicide a year later I think, by jumping into the Miami River in Ohio.

[Blast From The Past]

Saw the Gricar story on 'Disappeared' on Discovery ID channel. Really weird case.







YRThat destroyed harddrive was paramount to many answers I would think.

[Cajuncowboy]

That destroyed harddrive was paramount to many answers I would think.

I don't think he's dead.

[RoyTheHammer]

Except, people aren't saying that. So you're laughing at figments of your imagination.

People do think he knew before 2002 and that he let it go.

Read the Grand Jury report. One of the victims says that Sandusky had a meeting with Paterno in 1998 and was visibly upset that he was told he wasn't going to be the head coach. And then Sandusky just happens to retire.

So?

It doesn't make up for the fact that he did next to nothing.

He didn't even confront Sandusky in 2002 or apparently after 2002.

He's supposed to be a guy that teaches kids things like integrity and courage. Yet, was completely afraid to do anything more than report it to his superior and stick his head in the sand when Sandusky was still around the school and in the 2nd Mile Program...which Paterno is a member of the board.

Part of integrity and courage is doing stuff that you don't want to do, but you know is the right thing to do.

Nobody is saying that it wouldn't be incredibly difficult to do this. But, when face with the toughest decision in his life to make, he failed miserably.




The Grand Jury report says differently. He knew in 2002. And it's pretty easy to connect the dots and he knew in 1998.

I think it's obvious unless you are some blind Paterno lemming.

YR


On the contrary, i think its pretty obvious you simply have it out for the guy. You continue to act like it was mostly his fault this all of this was let to continue to happen, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

The only thing said that he knew in 1998 was that Sandusky had been reported to have an incident showering with a student, in which the charges were dropped and he was never proven guilty of. Even though it was never proven, Joe still didn't want that kind of atmosphere around PSU, so he told him he'd never be the head coach there.

So he knew in 1998 that Sandusky had a report of an incident showering with a little boy, yet it was never proven that this happened.

He knew in 2002 that Sandusky was reported by a grad student to be fooling around with a young boy in the showers, and reported it to university officials immediately.

Neither of these things mean, Joe KNEW Sandusky was a serial kiddie raper.

Again, all you're doing is assuming a great deal about what you think Joe knew and what you think Joe could have done, when there is nothing in the grand jury testimony to support your stupid remarks.

He made one error in judgement.. telling university officials instead of law enforcemnt officials. That is his error that he will have to live with.

The way the police handled the first case in 1998 though, im not sure it was that big an error anyway because them not doing anything about the man after that, knowing he ran a program that had him in close contact with young boys very often is just sickening.

If his superiors had kept their word and took care of the incident when he reported it to them, alot of this sick crap could've been avoided.

[Blast From The Past]

I'm so tired of the limited authority excuses crap. It was a felony! Go to the police. Don't go to people with in the organization. All the graduate assistant had to do, or Paterno or anyone else was call 911 and have a real investigation not some University sweep it under the rug process. Everyone who knew even a little about what was going on is at fault for letting it continue. If they had just shut it down it could have saved the trauma from who knows how many little boys.

It is about doing what is right.I read a few minutes ago a 9th boy has came forward, I wouldn't doubt their are even more yet to come forward before it's done. The grad assistant seeing what he saw with his own eyes should have called 911 on the spot. It started with him and his moral responsibilty was to call the police. I haven't read anywhere, where someone else has said this till you.

[Cajuncowboy]

Sorry to be a little blunt but **** Joe Paterno's legacy.

Before I go on, I'm not laying sole blame on Paterno. There's plenty of people who are to blame but it's pretty obvious that he knew what was going on and did next to nothing to stop it. The fact that he got zero results when telling his superiors should have pissed him off enough to take it public the very next day. All who knew are to blame and I hope those who kept it quiet all spend a little time in the slammer with a dude serving life who hasn't had a cellmate in over a decade.

But back to Paterno. His legacy can be smeared in dog **** for all I care. He doesn't deserve a legacy. I don't care if it were determined that he was the least responsible person in the matter, the fact that he's responsible at all is enough for his legacy to be buried ASAP.

How about the 9 (and counting) lives that are ****ed up because Paterno sat idly by and let this monster run free. Joe Paterno is as much an official at Penn State as the AD or any person he "reports" to. He should have been a human being and put a stop to it. If it were his son who was being molested, I wonder if he simply reports it to the officials. I don't care if this pedophile works / worked for Penn State or not, Paterno had a responsibility as a human to notify the police of his actions.

I didn't have much to say on the subject but after getting a couple pages through the document, this whole situation is just deplorable. This guy took advantage of disadvantaged kids to satisfy his sick and twisted desires. Like YR said, this probably goes back years and it really wouldn't shock me if this guy set up those foundations to serve as a way of getting close enough to act on his perversions.

The fact that Paterno didn't take this to the police after notifying the school, regardless of the school's action, is just despicable. What was he expecting? Was he afraid of screwing up a potential forced resignation and severance package? He should have walked out of that meeting and straight into the police department but he didn't. He washed his hands of it.

I hope they just erase Joe Paterno from the history books. I'm serious. In the grand scheme of things, his legacy should be the last thing considered at this point. It's clear he knew of it, the only question now is "how long"?

I don't want to hear, "he told school officials. He notified the school". Bull**** and everyone knows it so just get all the **** the way out of here with that nonsense. Because he didn't take further action, more kids were molested and nothing came of it so he may as well have done nothing at all. Seriously, he basically did nothing. He certainly didn't take the action that any of us would expect him to take if it were our kids. I challenge someone to say they'd be just fine with a grown man turning his back on their kids like that by notifying a school official, seeing nothing come of it and just moving on down the road as though it never happened.

Someone please sit here and say that's a form of action that you'd accept of another human being to take if your kids were repeatedly raped. I dare anyone to take that stance.

In all honesty, Paterno should be thanking his lucky stars if all he loses is his legacy. He should be included in it. Like just notifying a supervisor just frees someone of all guilt. We'd expect more from the guy serving us fries at McDonalds, let alone one of the most well respected and tenured members of college football. Well, he was well respected. I hope he taken to the ringer over this.

Again, Paterno is not the only one to blame but how anyone can free him from guilt even to a minimal extent is absolutely mind boggling.

Your wall of text comes down to one simple thing. Had Joe told the cops this would all had been ended right then and there.

Problem is that the Cops knew about Sandusky in 1998. They did nothing, or at minimum found no evidence of anything. So your whole premise that going to the cops would have stopped anything, is absurd as it is proven not to be true.

[Hoofbite]

Your wall of text comes down to one simple thing. Had Joe told the cops this would all had been ended right then and there.

Problem is that the Cops knew about Sandusky in 1998. They did nothing, or at minimum found no evidence of anything. So your whole premise that going to the cops would have stopped anything, is absurd as it is proven not to be true.

How can you say these two things in the same sentence?

That the cops neglected to act or were unable to by the amount of evidence available?

If you believe it's possible there was no evidence, how would you expect them to act upon anything?

[Yakuza Rich]

The only thing said that he knew in 1998 was that Sandusky had been reported to have an incident showering with a student, in which the charges were dropped and he was never proven guilty of. Even though it was never proven, Joe still didn't want that kind of atmosphere around PSU, so he told him he'd never be the head coach there.

So he knew in 1998 that Sandusky had a report of an incident showering with a little boy, yet it was never proven that this happened.

He knew in 2002 that Sandusky was reported by a grad student to be fooling around with a young boy in the showers, and reported it to university officials immediately.

Neither of these things mean, Joe KNEW Sandusky was a serial kiddie raper.

Sandusky acts clearly inappropriately in 1998 with a child in a shower. Furthermore, Sandusky ADMITS to it with the mother of the boy in 1998.

It's so clear that point Paterno tells him that he will never be the HC there.

And all of the sudden, Sandusky just happens to retire shortly after the incident.

Then, 4 years later when according to the Grand Jury report, McQuery said to Paterno that he saw Sandusky fondling a boy and what happened made him 'feel uncomfortable.'

So with those 2 incidents, Paterno wouldn't think that Sandusky had a major problem?

And furthermore, he didn't bother to do more than the bare minimum against a guy who was reported to fondle a boy. Even though what actually happened was worse, fondling a boy is unacceptable and a heinous crime.




Again, all you're doing is assuming a great deal about what you think Joe knew and what you think Joe could have done, when there is nothing in the grand jury testimony to support your stupid remarks.

I believe you have not read the Grand Jury report. It's obvious by your weak attempts to stick up for Paterno.

As one Penn State fan, 'blind allegiance for false heroes.'

And I'm not just blaming Joe. But it's amazing to me how out of all of the people involved, he's the one that some Penn State fans go the extra mile to absolve him of any blame.

Everybody involved was dispicable in their coverup.











YR

[Yakuza Rich]

Your wall of text comes down to one simple thing. Had Joe told the cops this would all had been ended right then and there.

Problem is that the Cops knew about Sandusky in 1998. They did nothing, or at minimum found no evidence of anything. So your whole premise that going to the cops would have stopped anything, is absurd as it is proven not to be true.

That's not the point of all of this.

Nobody expect Paterno to be judge, jury and executioner.

But, they do expect him to do more than to tell his supervisor (who in reality, isn't his supervisor) about such an awful crime.

And they do expect him to ban Sandusky from the school.

People know that guilty people can go to trial and be found free. And there's nothing that a guy like Paterno could do about that. But, at least make the attempt to do something besides covering your own arse.







YR

[RoyTheHammer]

Sandusky acts clearly inappropriately in 1998 with a child in a shower. Furthermore, Sandusky ADMITS to it with the mother of the boy in 1998.

It's so clear that point Paterno tells him that he will never be the HC there.

And all of the sudden, Sandusky just happens to retire shortly after the incident.

Then, 4 years later when according to the Grand Jury report, McQuery said to Paterno that he saw Sandusky fondling a boy and what happened made him 'feel uncomfortable.'

So with those 2 incidents, Paterno wouldn't think that Sandusky had a major problem?

And furthermore, he didn't bother to do more than the bare minimum against a guy who was reported to fondle a boy. Even though what actually happened was worse, fondling a boy is unacceptable and a heinous crime.






I believe you have not read the Grand Jury report. It's obvious by your weak attempts to stick up for Paterno.

As one Penn State fan, 'blind allegiance for false heroes.'

And I'm not just blaming Joe. But it's amazing to me how out of all of the people involved, he's the one that some Penn State fans go the extra mile to absolve him of any blame.

Everybody involved was dispicable in their coverup.


Paterno did nothing to try and cover it up.. that's why people are defending his actions. He was told of an incident, and went right to university officials with it the information.

The people who are most to blame are those that did try and cover it up, and then lied about the whole thing on top of that. That is truely sickening. Paterno told the wrong officials, and was lied to when being told they would handle the matter appropriately.


..and also the police and child protection agency for being so supremely stupid as to let a guy who runs an organization where he comes in contact with young boys all the time, go off scott free when Sandusky ADMITTED TO THEM that he had inappropriate contact with a young boy. That is the major crime here. All he had to say to them was "Yes, i did it, but i know it was wrong and i won't do it again."

Bam. They drop all charges and let him go with no record or probation or consequences at all. You'd think at the very least they'd investigate a little into his charity organization to see if there are any other instances where this may have occured.

But nahhh, just let him go.

[zrinkill]

Disgusting.

[Rogah]

Don't know how true this is but I talked to a friend tonight who is in the media in Williamsport and has had some unofficial conversations with people at the school. that told me that it is very likely Joepa coaches this Saturday and then will turn the head coaching over to his son Jay for the remainder of the year.

There is some speculation that some don't want Jay to take over because it is too close to his dad and the school would like to begin to distance themselves from this scandal as soon as possible. If this indeed does happen they may turn to Dick Anderson or mike McQueary. Um, whuh-huh? Your friend thinks the team will want to distance themselves from the scandal and turn to McQueary? You do realize that he's front and center in the middle of the scandal, right? (Am I getting the names mixed up? If so I apologize.)

Personally, other than Sandusky himself, I think McQueary is the worst of this reprehensible cast of characters. He's the one who personally witnessed a completely dispicable action and then did nothing but run away and tell his daddy.

[Rogah]

To be honest.. after the way the police handled the first incident reported in 1998, i sincerely doubt they'd have done anything if Joe had gone to them and said "one of my grad students told me they saw a guy raping a little boy. Grad students word against Sandusky's.. that case would have been thrown out too and Sandusky would have gotten away with it again like the sick **** he is.Wow, you really just can't help yourself but act as a total Paterno apologist in the face of all contradictory evidence and the grand jury finds, can you?

It wouldn't be a grad student's word against Sandusky's word. Presumably the kid would have some input in the matter as well. And I'm sure you would never believe some kid over St. Joseph of Mt. Nittany but, believe it or not, they can do forensic testing on the kid to confirm the story.

(All this is not to mention that fact that any real man would have pummeled Sandusky senseless upon stumbling upon the disgusting scene, not gone running to daddy who, in turn, went running to "JoePA." I guess cowardice runs in the family. They must have been taught that by Coach Paterno.)

[tyke1doe]

Sandusky acts clearly inappropriately in 1998 with a child in a shower. Furthermore, Sandusky ADMITS to it with the mother of the boy in 1998.

It's so clear that point Paterno tells him that he will never be the HC there.

And all of the sudden, Sandusky just happens to retire shortly after the incident.

Then, 4 years later when according to the Grand Jury report, McQuery said to Paterno that he saw Sandusky fondling a boy and what happened made him 'feel uncomfortable.'

So with those 2 incidents, Paterno wouldn't think that Sandusky had a major problem?

And furthermore, he didn't bother to do more than the bare minimum against a guy who was reported to fondle a boy. Even though what actually happened was worse, fondling a boy is unacceptable and a heinous crime.






I believe you have not read the Grand Jury report. It's obvious by your weak attempts to stick up for Paterno.

As one Penn State fan, 'blind allegiance for false heroes.'

And I'm not just blaming Joe. But it's amazing to me how out of all of the people involved, he's the one that some Penn State fans go the extra mile to absolve him of any blame.

Everybody involved was dispicable in their coverup.




YR

I'm with you on this one. Joe Pa's actions - or inaction - was inexcusable, unless he is a senile old man, which in that case, he needs to resign.

[Rogah]

I'm with you on this one. Joe Pa's actions - or inaction - was inexcusable, unless he is a senile old man, which in that case, he needs to resign.There's no way he was senile 10 years ago when all this went down because if he was senile 10 years ago, he'd be way far out there now.

[RoyTheHammer]

Wow, you really just can't help yourself but act as a total Paterno apologist in the face of all contradictory evidence and the grand jury finds, can you?

It wouldn't be a grad student's word against Sandusky's word. Presumably the kid would have some input in the matter as well. And I'm sure you would never believe some kid over St. Joseph of Mt. Nittany but, believe it or not, they can do forensic testing on the kid to confirm the story.

(All this is not to mention that fact that any real man would have pummeled Sandusky senseless upon stumbling upon the disgusting scene, not gone running to daddy who, in turn, went running to "JoePA." I guess cowardice runs in the family. They must have been taught that by Coach Paterno.)

Paterno apologist? lol

What did the police do in 1998 when Sandusky ADMITTED to both them and child protective services that he committed an inappropriate act and showered with a little boy?

They said, "Oh, well don't do it again. Move along, sir.."

[RoyTheHammer]

I'm with you on this one. Joe Pa's actions - or inaction - was inexcusable, unless he is a senile old man, which in that case, he needs to resign.

Ever watch his press conferences? He certainly seems senile.

Still.. he made an error in judgement that he definitely should have known was wrong.

If i could ever get my hands on Curley though, or Spanier, or Schultz.. i'd wring his damn neck for not alerting authorities and then lying to try and sweep everything under the rug.

[Sarge]

I don't think there is any question that Paterno is done.

:signmast:

[burmafrd]

he wasn't senile 10 years ago.

Error in judgement.

I hear the same apology for Vick.

Error in judgement.

Except that Vick's ERROR lasted for YEARS.

Never seizes to amaze me how some people desperately want to find excuses for POS. Or for those that let children be molested.

[Yakuza Rich]

I'm with you on this one. Joe Pa's actions - or inaction - was inexcusable, unless he is a senile old man, which in that case, he needs to resign.

That's what it's kinda like hearing Paterno lemmings stick up for him.

One second they will say he is a 'God' and 'is Penn State', the next second they'll claim he's this powerless old man. He's either one or the other and if he's a powerless old man, then all of the Paterno stuff was just a charade over the past 10+ years. Which I don't believe is true because you're not going to get that many former players saying how much of a 'God' he is.







YR

[2233boys]

Mike and Mike addressed this topic this morning. How did McQuery and the janitor witness what they did and not at least yell stop it? Both walked away disgusted never tried to stop Sandusky, at least that was not said in the indictment.

[Yakuza Rich]

Mike and Mike addressed this topic this morning. How did McQuery and the janitor witness what they did and not at least yell stop it? Both walked away disgusted never tried to stop Sandusky, at least that was not said in the indictment.

In the Grand Jury report, the janitors said that they were all afraid of them being fired if Calhoun reported what he saw. I think McQuery thought the same thing.

It's kinda one of the issues when you let a football program become bigger than the University.





YR

[joseephuss]

..the last person i'd be upset with in this situation is Joe. He's the only one besides the grad assistant who even told the higher ups about it, even when he wasn't sure what exactly happened.

Yet most here are acting like Joe should face the most blame out of anyone, when his only real mistake was telling the wrong officials what was told to him.



That is a bunch of bull. No one here is saying Paterno is the most to blame. No one. You are making all of that drama up on your own. You are making him out to be some martyr. He's not. He had a part in all this, could have done more in most people's eyes and will end up losing his job over it. You don't lose your job when you do everything absolutely 100% the right way. And his punishment is nowhere near as bad as what others in this fiasco deserve and will probably get.

The more you defend Paterno the more the whole situation just ticks me off. Screw him.

[joseephuss]

In the Grand Jury report, the janitors said that they were all afraid of them being fired if Calhoun reported what he saw. I think McQuery thought the same thing.

It's kinda one of the issues when you let a football program become bigger than the University.





YR

So McQueary thought he may have been fired at that time and now he may end up as interim head coach. Let a kid get molested, don't call the police and you shall be rewarded down the line. Amazing.

[Yakuza Rich]

So McQueary thought he may have been fired at that time and now he may end up as interim head coach. Let a kid get molested, don't call the police and you shall be rewarded down the line. Amazing.

I'm not excusing what McQuery did. I'm just saying that is probably what he was thinking at the time. He also probably thought that he could trust Paterno to handle it. Afterwards, when it was apparent that it was not handled (notifying the 2nd Mile is not 'handling it'), I simply cannot excuse McQuery for that at all.

As far as stopping Sandusky while in the act, it sounds like McQuery saw him do it...Sandusky and the boy saw McQuery and they stopped and scurried off.

Personally, I'm not sure how I would have handled that part. Although I think I would have tried to stop the boy and then bring him to the police station and report what I saw. I might have informed my parents at the time what I was about to do.

That being said, I'm not so sure how mortified I would have been by witnessing the incident. However, McQuery had time to think about this and his best course of action...even after talking over it with his dad....was to just bring it up to Paterno and think that them reporting it to the 2nd Mile who never followed up with him....I just don't get that.









YR

[JBond]

This is possibly the worst thing that could happen to College Football. If this is true, it's a sad day indeed.

Wrong...This is the worst thing that can ever happen to little children. get your priorities strait.

I just read the whole Grand Jury Indictment of Sandusky.

WOW.

What a sick pig.

So many times there was a chance to catch this guy or put a stop to it.

People either ignored it...minimalized it...or tried to cover it up.

One of the few times we will agree on something 100%

I don't think so. If Paterno steps down now, he will keep his legacy intact IMO. He can say that he reported it and nobody did anything about it. He can say that he took steps to end Sandusky's affiliation with PSU Football, which is true. If he continues on, then he is likely to get drug down as well but if he gets out now, I think he can still keep much of his legacy intact. JMO.

His legacy is similar to that of a bishop in the Catholic church. There is no freaking excuse. You report child rape to the police. You do not protect a POS like that just because he is your friend. ***?

Knowing Paterno (And I have had the opportunity to meet with him and spend a few hours one on one with him) this sounds like a more likely scenario with respect to Paterno. I am sure that had Paterno been made aware of the graphic nature of the abuse, he would have pursued it more vigorously.

I hate to disagree with a couple of posters I really like, but I must. Sandusky adopted four little kids and had numerous foster children. He was a predator and Joe Pa did next to nothing when presented with the evidence. I liked and respected Joe for how he conducted his business and ran his program. Turns out the guy is a POS that allowed a child rapist to continue to torture children. There is no freaking excuses allowed. I know that both of you would have done more than Joe Pa if you were made aware of a child rapist.

[Dmoore Esq]

So McQueary thought he may have been fired at that time and now he may end up as interim head coach. Let a kid get molested, don't call the police and you shall be rewarded down the line. Amazing.

McQueary is never going to coach again. His life in football is over. He's taking more heat than Paterno.

Penn State needs to get the death penalty. There's more than enough blame to go around. Nobody in the football program or administration is coming through this looking like a hero, or even a decent human being.

[Joe Realist]

Joe Paterno decides to retire...at end of season, per Associated Press.

[cowboyjoe]

FOX29phillyFOX 29

by ChrisSteuber



BREAKING: Penn State football coach Joe Paterno has decided to retire at end of the season.

1 minute agoFavoriteRetweetReply

this was suppose to be twitter, can someone fix that for me, thanks

[Joe Realist]

Just put this in the PSU thread. The question is now, will he be allowed to coach the rest of the season.

[cowboyjoe]

AdamSchefterAdam Schefter
AP reporting Joe Paterno will retire at end of season.

1 minute agoFavoriteRetweetReply

[ConcordCowboy]

Joe Paterno decides to retire...at end of season, per Associated Press.

Just got that alert on my iPhone.

Wow.

Stay away from Meyer. :p:

[Aggie87]

However, McQuery had time to think about this and his best course of action...even after talking over it with his dad....was to just bring it up to Paterno and think that them reporting it to the 2nd Mile who never followed up with him....I just don't get that.

Maybe his silence was paid for with the promise of a job and career in coaching at Penn State. He was only a grad assistant at the time, now he's a long time coach. And was silent that whole time?

[MichaelWinicki]

Retirement...

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/colleges/penn_state/Paterno_retiring_at_end_of_season.html?cmpid=12521 9969

[joseephuss]

McQueary is never going to coach again. His life in football is over. He's taking more heat than Paterno.

Penn State needs to get the death penalty. There's more than enough blame to go around. Nobody in the football program or administration is coming through this looking like a hero, or even a decent human being.

Makes you wonder. If they were willing to cover up something like this, what else have they been covering up over the years.

I have always been a believer that no program is 100% clean. There are always some sort of recruiting violations or small gifts or payments occurring in any program. If you look hard enough you will probably find something with every team out there. What kind of other stuff was going on with Penn State? Anything else pales in comparison to covering up child molestation.

[JBond]

Agreed. Just like all the other PSU officials that knew about this.

The difference being, he had the least amount of information as to what exactly was going on than any of the rest of them. He was told about one incident, from a student, about some vague sexual activities.

Again, he went straight to university officials with the information, instead of law enforcement officials. That was his only mistake.

I just laugh at the people acting like he knew the whole time that Sandusky was a child raper and act like he was making arraingments for the guy or something.



He was warned repeatedly. Joe Pa did what was best for Joe Pa in the ultimate act of selfishness. I hope it eats at his soul the rest of his days.This thread is making me sick, defending the Joe Pa or the grad assistant is just foolish......nuf said before I get kicked out.

Sorry to be a little blunt but **** Joe Paterno's legacy.

But back to Paterno. His legacy can be smeared in dog **** for all I care. He doesn't deserve a legacy. I don't care if it were determined that he was the least responsible person in the matter, the fact that he's responsible at all is enough for his legacy to be buried ASAP.

How about the 9 (and counting) lives that are ****ed up because Paterno sat idly by and let this monster run free. Joe Paterno is as much an official at Penn State as the AD or any person he "reports" to. He should have been a human being and put a stop to it. If it were his son who was being molested, I wonder if he simply reports it to the officials. I don't care if this pedophile works / worked for Penn State or not, Paterno had a responsibility as a human to notify the police of his actions.

I didn't have much to say on the subject but after getting a couple pages through the document, this whole situation is just deplorable. This guy took advantage of disadvantaged kids to satisfy his sick and twisted desires. Like YR said, this probably goes back years and it really wouldn't shock me if this guy set up those foundations to serve as a way of getting close enough to act on his perversions.

The fact that Paterno didn't take this to the police after notifying the school, regardless of the school's action, is just despicable. What was he expecting? Was he afraid of screwing up a potential forced resignation and severance package? He should have walked out of that meeting and straight into the police department but he didn't. He washed his hands of it.

I hope they just erase Joe Paterno from the history books. I'm serious. In the grand scheme of things, his legacy should be the last thing considered at this point. It's clear he knew of it, the only question now is "how long"?

I don't want to hear, "he told school officials. He notified the school". Bull**** and everyone knows it so just get all the **** the way out of here with that nonsense. Because he didn't take further action, more kids were molested and nothing came of it so he may as well have done nothing at all. Seriously, he basically did nothing. He certainly didn't take the action that any of us would expect him to take if it were our kids. I challenge someone to say they'd be just fine with a grown man turning his back on their kids like that by notifying a school official, seeing nothing come of it and just moving on down the road as though it never happened.

Someone please sit here and say that's a form of action that you'd accept of another human being to take if your kids were repeatedly raped. I dare anyone to take that stance.

In all honesty, Paterno should be thanking his lucky stars if all he loses is his legacy. He should be included in it. Like just notifying a supervisor just frees someone of all guilt. We'd expect more from the guy serving us fries at McDonalds, let alone one of the most well respected and tenured members of college football. Well, he was well respected. I hope he taken to the ringer over this.

Again, Paterno is not the only one to blame but how anyone can free him from guilt even to a minimal extent is absolutely mind boggling.

I hope he and the grad assistant serve time. They earned it.


The only thing said that he knew in 1998 was that Sandusky had been reported to have an incident showering with a student, in which the charges were dropped and he was never proven guilty of. Even though it was never proven, Joe still didn't want that kind of atmosphere around PSU, so he told him he'd never be the head coach there.

So he knew in 1998 that Sandusky had a report of an incident showering with a little boy, yet it was never proven that this happened.

He knew in 2002 that Sandusky was reported by a grad student to be fooling around with a young boy in the showers, and reported it to university officials immediately.



Your defense is sad and sick at the same time. If your child was raped by a predator and you found out his boss knew and covered for him, you would say the same thing. Pathetic. Hope you don't have kids.

[Chocolate Lab]

In the Grand Jury report, the janitors said that they were all afraid of them being fired if Calhoun reported what he saw. I think McQuery thought the same thing.

It's kinda one of the issues when you let a football program become bigger than the University.
I guarantee you that's the case. Of course he should've beaten the hell out of that monster immediately, don't get me wrong. But it probably flashed through his head -- besides being in total shock at what he saw -- that if he did that his career would be over not just at Penn State, but at almost any other school because he'd likely be blackballed forever by someone as powerful in the industry as Joe Paterno.

Now they're saying Paterno will be fired after the year. That isn't soon enough. He along with several others should've already coached their last game.

[JBond]

Joe Paterno decides to retire...at end of season, per Associated Press.


Good. Now they need to prosecute his failure to report a crime against a child. He can live out the rest of his miserable existence in a ****ing jail cell next to the pathetic grad assistant who did as little a Joe Pa.

[Doomsday101]

61 years at one school. I think they allow him to remain until the end of the year

[Yakuza Rich]

Joe Pa is daring the Board of Trustees to fire him.

He laid down the gauntlet.

If the report that the number of people coming forward is more like 20 is true...it's going to look unbelievably bad as each one of them comes forward and Paterno is still coaching.

Particularly if one of these victims is willing to be interviewed on TV or radio and really goes off.







YR

[Dmoore Esq]

I would be utterly shocked if Paterno coached on Saturday. And all the PSU students demonstrating their support for Joe Pa are completely disgusting. It's a vile thing that happened. The worst sports scandal of all-time. I understand you may love the guy and the team, and might want to wait until the process plays itself out and everything alleged is either proven or dismissed, but how could you offer your support to anyone who is alleged to have allowed something like this to happen under his watch? If Joe Pa is coaching, don't show up to the game. I'm a fan of Big 10 football, and a big fan of Michigan State. If something like this happened at the program I loved, you'd never see me at another game again or showing my support for anyone involved.

[Bill Wooten]

For those that hold Paterno in such high regard, you should have expected more from him in this case.

[Dmoore Esq]

I guarantee you that's the case. Of course he should've beaten the hell out of that monster immediately, don't get me wrong. But it probably flashed through his head -- besides being in total shock at what he saw -- that if he did that his career would be over not just at Penn State, but at almost any other school because he'd likely be blackballed forever by someone as powerful in the industry as Joe Paterno.

Now they're saying Paterno will be fired after the year. That isn't soon enough. He along with several others should've already coached their last game.

No one is getting black balled for stopping child rape. He would have had a chance to work his way up the coaching ranks some place else. That's gone now. Would you hire him?

[Hoofbite]

Why would he retire?

His conscience should be clear. After all, he did ALL that he could or was obligated to.

[MichaelWinicki]

Phil Sheridan's blog from just minutes ago...


"So Joe Paterno is going out on his own terms – assuming his terms are as a tone-deaf, misguided enabler of the most abhorrent behavior ever attached to a sports entity of any kind.

The news that Paterno has “decided to retire” at the end of this football season would have been a headline grabber in any of the previous 10 years. It is an absurd afterthought in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky grand jury report. Retire? At the end of the season?"

More...

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/philabuster/133531816.html

[Chocolate Lab]

No one is getting black balled for stopping child rape. He would have had a chance to work his way up the coaching ranks some place else. That's gone now. Would you hire him?

Of course I would.

I'm just talking about what might have been going through this young GA's head. And speaking to the king-like, or even god-like, personas these legendary coaches have on campus, in their towns, and even in their states. They wield a TON of influence.

And they don't rule through benevolence, either. It's usually more fear and intimidation.

It's just too fishy to me that this guy has had a job there all these years. I can't believe many more people didn't know, including Paterno.

[Chocolate Lab]

I'm pissed off that they'd even phrase the statement that way, that "he has decided" to retire. He should've been fired immediately.

Is he still so all-powerful that they have to cater to him even after the most heinous scandal in sports history?

[trickblue]

Why would he retire?

His conscience should be clear. After all, he did ALL that he could or was obligated to.

His contract was up at the end of the year, anyway... they weren't going to renew it, most likely...

[BlueStar3398]

I would be utterly shocked if Paterno coached on Saturday. And all the PSU students demonstrating their support for Joe Pa are completely disgusting. It's a vile thing that happened. The worst sports scandal of all-time. I understand you may love the guy and the team, and might want to wait until the process plays itself out and everything alleged is either proven or dismissed, but how could you offer your support to anyone who is alleged to have allowed something like this to happen under his watch? If Joe Pa is coaching, don't show up to the game. I'm a fan of Big 10 football, and a big fan of Michigan State. If something like this happened at the program I loved, you'd never see me at another game again or showing my support for anyone involved.

+1 Supporting a guy that knew about a vile, despicable crime against a child and didn't call the cops is disgusting.

If I witnessed that crime, I would have called 911 right then and there. I bet that child was thinking SOMEONE HELP ME! And no one did.

[Hoofbite]

His contract was up at the end of the year, anyway... they weren't going to renew it, most likely...

That's fine. But why not wait until the end of the season and let it play itself out.

I can't imagine why he would come out and say this. HE DID ALL HE COULD DO!!!

[Joe Realist]

It is a preemptibe strike by Paterno so now the ball is in the court of the Board of Trustees. My gut says he coaches Satuday at their final home game/senior day and PSU gets to say goodbye to him. Then he does not coach the rest of the season.

[Dmoore Esq]

Of course I would.

I'm just talking about what might have been going through this young GA's head. And speaking to the king-like, or even god-like, personas these legendary coaches have on campus, in their towns, and even in their states. They wield a TON of influence.

And they don't rule through benevolence, either. It's usually more fear and intimidation.

It's just too fishy to me that this guy has had a job there all these years. I can't believe many more people didn't know, including Paterno.

So you would hire someone who witnessed a child being sexually assaulted, first hand, and not only didn't physically stop it, he just reported it to his superiors and did nothing else? You want that person to be a leader of young men?

I know I've never been in a situation like that, but I know without a shadow of a doubt if it would have been me it would have been different. There's absolutely no excuse.

[Yakuza Rich]

Paterno's statement.

STATE COLLEGE, Pa., Nov. 9, 2011 — I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.

I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can. This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University


Wow.

Just wow.









YR

[punchnjudy]

This whole thing is disgusting. Obviously, there are certain levels of crime that should immediately be reported to police. What they do after that is their business. If I witness someone skimping off the books, I go to a supervisor. Rape or murder--that goes to the police. And if the evidence is brought to me, same reaction. Police. Any man worth anything would do the same thing.

Regarding the cover up, I hope they uncover all levels of it. Even though investigators say Paterno isn't a target, that doesn't mean he won't be. They're not going to acknowledge it until they have some evidence, but they know as well as I do that people don't attempt a cover up unless they think all parties are going to participate. Those administrators had to not only suspect but know that Paterno wouldn't later go to the police or they would not only lose their jobs but would be locked up as well. Nobody takes that risk on a hunch.

[Stautner]

That is a bunch of bull. No one here is saying Paterno is the most to blame. No one. You are making all of that drama up on your own. You are making him out to be some martyr. He's not. He had a part in all this, could have done more in most people's eyes and will end up losing his job over it. You don't lose your job when you do everything absolutely 100% the right way. And his punishment is nowhere near as bad as what others in this fiasco deserve and will probably get.

The more you defend Paterno the more the whole situation just ticks me off. Screw him.

Of course a coach can get fired if he handled it the correct way. It all depends on how the school feels about the coach, and while Paterno is loved, he is also considered too old and past his prime. There was a big push to get him fired a few years ago and he bounced back and had a pretty good season, but this incident feeds those who want him gone anyway.

That said, even though Paterno technically handled the situation properly, I have mixed emotions about it. My gut thought is that anytime there is an allegation of something improper involving a child a person should go directly to the police, however this involved a second hand report about a coach who had not been associated with the team for a few years, so it's understandable that Paterno would have passed it to his employer to handle. The one thing that is bothersome to me is that it seems Paterno never followed up with his employer to make sure it got handled properly.

Wrong...This is the worst thing that can ever happen to little children. get your priorities strait.

I hate to disagree with a couple of posters I really like, but I must. Sandusky adopted four little kids and had numerous foster children. He was a predator and Joe Pa did next to nothing when presented with the evidence.


First, I don't think the poster was suggesting it wasn't a horrible thing for kids.

Second, Paterno wasn't presented with evidence, he was presented with a 2nd hand account. You still may believe Paterno should have gone to the police rather than put it in the hands of the university, but it's false to suggest Paterno had evidence of anything.

I wonder why nobody is crucifying the asst. coach who saw the incident in the showers. He left in the hands of Paterno, just as Paterno left it in the hands of the school. Seems to me both he and Paterno should have followed up.

[Chocolate Lab]

So you would hire someone who witnessed a child being sexually assaulted, first hand, and not only didn't physically stop it, he just reported it to his superiors and did nothing else? You want that person to be a leader of young men?

I know I've never been in a situation like that, but I know without a shadow of a doubt if it would have been me it would have been different. There's absolutely no excuse.

Wait a minute, why are you attacking me? Go back about 20 pages ago -- I've already said the guy was wrong, that he should've grabbed a helmet out of a locker and pummeled the old POS immediately.

I thought you were asking me if I'd hire the guy if he *had* stopped the crime right then and there and Paterno had somehow tried to blackball the guy among his coaching peers. Yes, I'd hire him in that case.

Would I hire someone who saw the worst crime possible and did nothing about it? Hell no. But I didn't do that, Joe Paterno did.

[Stautner]

Of course I would.

I'm just talking about what might have been going through this young GA's head. And speaking to the king-like, or even god-like, personas these legendary coaches have on campus, in their towns, and even in their states. They wield a TON of influence.

And they don't rule through benevolence, either. It's usually more fear and intimidation.

It's just too fishy to me that this guy has had a job there all these years. I can't believe many more people didn't know, including Paterno.

Really? So you believe the entirety of society is so screwed up and morally depraved or indifferent that many people would have known the guy was a child molester and not a single one would have reported it?

I can by cynical about some things, but I just don't buy this.

[Chocolate Lab]

Really? So you believe the entirety of society is so screwed up and morally depraved or indifferent that many people would have known the guy was a child molester and not a single one would have reported it?

You're talking about Sandusky, right?

If so, I don't guess you've read all the details, because apparently lots of people did know.

Maybe at some points the authorities didn't think they had enough evidence to prosecute, but people knew this was a bad, bad guy.

[Stautner]

Wait a minute, why are you attacking me? Go back about 20 pages ago -- I've already said the guy was wrong, that he should've grabbed a helmet out of a locker and pummeled the old POS immediately.

I thought you were asking me if I'd hire the guy if he *had* stopped the crime right then and there and Paterno had somehow tried to blackball the guy among his coaching peers. Yes, I'd hire him in that case.

Would I hire someone who saw the worst crime possible and did nothing about it? Hell no. But I didn't do that, Joe Paterno did.

First, I thought the guy was hired before Paterno knew anything about this, second I didn't think Paterno saw the crime, and third I thought the guy was already gone from Penn State before Paterno knew. I haven't read everything on this, but that's what the story I read online indicated this morning.

[Stautner]

Are you talking about Sandusky?

If so, I don't guess you've read all the details, because apparently lots of people did know.

I guess I haven't read all the details, but regardless I don't think it's fair to just assume everyone that knew Sandusky knew about his activities.

[Chocolate Lab]

First, I thought the guy was hired before Paterno knew anything about this, second I didn't think Paterno saw the crime, and third I thought the guy was already gone from Penn State before Paterno knew. I haven't read everything on this, but that's what the story I read online indicated this morning.

You need to read up on the case. At the time, McQueary was a graduate assistant. He's now an assistant coach and recruiting coordinator.

[Hoofbite]

Paterno's statement.




Wow.

Just wow.









YR

Yeah, I'm sure he's really caught off guard.

Never would have suspected it.

[JBond]

First, I don't think the poster was suggesting it wasn't a horrible thing for kids.

Second, Paterno wasn't presented with evidence, he was presented with a 2nd hand account. You still may believe Paterno should have gone to the police rather than put it in the hands of the university, but it's false to suggest Paterno had evidence of anything.

I wonder why nobody is crucifying the asst. coach who saw the incident in the showers. He left in the hands of Paterno, just as Paterno left it in the hands of the school. Seems to me both he and Paterno should have followed up.

I clearly stated later both should serve time for failing to report a crime against a child. You agree, don't you?

Joe Pa deserves jail time and so does the assistant. Imagine being that little boy in the shower with a predator that is supposed to be your protector. Joe Pa and the assistant and anyone else that had first or second hand knowledge of the predator deserves a swift kick to the head and a large boyfriend at night in prison.

Not my problem. I did what was required. This is a major problem with our society today. What happened to our country? I am quickly losing respect for many poster I like. You turn in child predators to the police. Period. No excuses.

[Stautner]

You need to read up on the case. At the time, McQueary was a graduate assistant. He's now an assistant coach and recruiting coordinator.

And how does that change what I said? McQueary didn't commit the crime, Sandusky did, and Paterno didn't witness it, and Paterno didn't hire Sandusky after finding out about it.

[JBond]

And how does that change what I said? McQueary didn't commit the crime, Sandusky did, and Paterno didn't witness it, and Paterno didn't hire Sandusky after finding out about it.

Yes they did commit crimes. What is wrong with you today?

http://philadelphiacriminallawnews.com/2011/11/pennsylvania-sexual-abuse-reporting-crime-not-to-do-so.html


In Pennsylvania, employees in certain positions are required to report sex abuse to authorities when they become aware of it. Covered employees for sexual abuse reporting include doctors, nurses, school administrators, and teachers.

As prosecutors consider both Schultz and Curley to be school administrators, they are charged with violating the mandatory reporting laws (http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/child-abuse/pennsylvania/) when they did not notify officials of the suspected abuse. It was not reported when the two were notified of the sex abuse or who notified them of the abuse.


Joe Pa deserves to be included as a school admin.

http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/child-abuse/pennsylvania/


Code Section 23§6303, et seq.

What Constitutes Abuse: Act which causes nonaccidental serious physical injury, sexual abuse/exploitation, serious physical neglect constituting prolonged or repeated lack of supervision or failure to provide essentials of life.

Mandatory Reporting Required By: Physician, coroner, dentist, chiropractor, hospital personnel, Christian Science practitioner, clergy, school teacher/nurse/administrator, social services worker, day care or child center worker, mental health professional, peace officer, law enforcement official, funeral director, foster care worker

[Doomsday101]

Yes the did commit crimes. What is wrong with you today?

http://philadelphiacriminallawnews.com/2011/11/pennsylvania-sexual-abuse-reporting-crime-not-to-do-so.html



Joe Pa deserves to be included as a school admin.

So the trial has already taken place and a sentence passed? I will not defend any child prediator but right now we have charges and some where I read that there is a presumption of innocent until proven guilty, does that apply in Pennsylvania law?

[trickblue]

First, I thought the guy was hired before Paterno knew anything about this, second I didn't think Paterno saw the crime, and third I thought the guy was already gone from Penn State before Paterno knew. I haven't read everything on this, but that's what the story I read online indicated this morning.

Brief synopsis...

Sandusky fully expected to be the next HC at PSU...

In 1998 he admitted to showering with a young boy after the mother made complaints. Paterno called him in and told him he would never be HC at PSU (incidentally, Sandusky left PSU pissed after Paterno told him and he had a young teen boy in the car at the school and related it to him). He retired (likely forcibly) after the '99 season. Reading over all kinds of PSU message boards, Paterno became publicly cool to Sandusky at that point, so he had to have known the allegations. So when it happened again in 2002, people are wanting to know why he didn't go to the police when it was reported to him. That's pretty much the gist of it...

[Stautner]

I clearly stated later both should serve time for failing to report a crime against a child. You agree, don't you?

Joe Pa deserves jail time and so does the assistant. Imagine being that little boy in the shower with a predator that is supposed to be your protector. Joe Pa and the assistant and anyone else that had first or second hand knowledge of the predator deserves a swift kick to the head and a large boyfriend at night in prison.

Not my problem. I did what was required. This is a major problem with our society today. What happened to our country? I am quickly losing respect for many poster I like. You turn in child predators to the police. Period. No excuses.

Jail time, I don't know. Paterno didn't see the crime, so he couldn't testify to it. McQueary should have reported it, but I understand being a young grad assistant at the time he was confused and went to his boss to decide how to handle it. Bottom line is both dropped the ball, as clearly did the university who was more interested in covering their butt than doing what is right. And while I share your disgust over what Sandusky did, along with your frustration at how everyone passed the buck until the university just buried it, i don't know that throwing everyone in jail is the answer either.

[trickblue]

So the trial has already taken place and a sentence passed? I will not defend any child prediator but right now we have charges and some where I read that there is a presumption of innocent until proven guilty, does that apply in Pennsylvania law?

Innocent until proven guilty... but he HAS admitted showering with a young boy in the past, so there will be no benefit of the doubt with this guy...

[Stautner]

Brief synopsis...

Sandusky fully expected to be the next HC at PSU...

In 1998 he admitted to showering with a young boy after the mother made complaints. Paterno called him in and told him he would never be HC at PSU (incidentally, Sandusky left PSU pissed after Paterno told him and he had a young teen boy in the car at the school and related it to him). He retired (likely forcibly) after the '99 season. Reading over all kinds of PSU message boards, Paterno became publicly cool to Sandusky at that point, so he had to have known the allegations. So when it happened again in 2002, people are wanting to know why he didn't go to the police when it was reported to him. That's pretty much the gist of it...

Taht's more than the story I read this morning. I suppose more is becoming known all the time.

One thing I'm not understanding is what Sandusky was even doing at the school in 2002 when he was no longer a coach there.

[Doomsday101]

Innocent until proven guilty... but he HAS admitted showering with a young boy in the past, so there will be no benefit of the doubt with this guy...

I was not referring to Sandusky but Paterno

[Rogah]

Paterno apologist? lol

What did the police do in 1998 when Sandusky ADMITTED to both them and child protective services that he committed an inappropriate act and showered with a little boy?

They said, "Oh, well don't do it again. Move along, sir.."How does police incompetence excuse Paterno's despicable (in)actions?

[Stautner]

I was not referring to Sandusky but Paterno

I'm surprised that after 40 years of running posssilby the most above board of the big time college football programs that the public isn't giving him a little more of the benefit of the doubt. It almost seems some are treating Paterno as if he is as or more guilty than Sandusky.

[Rogah]

+1 Supporting a guy that knew about a vile, despicable crime against a child and didn't call the cops is disgusting.

If I witnessed that crime, I would have called 911 right then and there. I bet that child was thinking SOMEONE HELP ME! And no one did.That last sentence just broke my heart. :( :( :(

[JBond]

Jail time, I don't know. Paterno didn't see the crime, so he couldn't testify to it. McQueary should have reported it, but I understand being a young grad assistant at the time he was confused and went to his boss to decide how to handle it. Bottom line is both dropped the ball, as clearly did the university who was more interested in covering their butt than doing what is right. And while I share your disgust over what Sandusky did, along with your frustration at how everyone passed the buck until the university just buried it, i don't know that throwing everyone in jail is the answer either.

You understand? What? Empathy towards the lack of morality displayed in this incident is disturbing to me. So you would have done the same thing? I do not believe that. I would like to believe many of us would have knocked the SOB out and reported him to the police after securing the child. Maybe I am expecting too much of my fellow man. I understand your point, but strongly disagree with rationalizing any culpability away.

[trickblue]

One thing I'm not understanding is what Sandusky was even doing at the school in 2002 when he was no longer a coach there.

That's the million dollar question...

[Rogah]

So the trial has already taken place and a sentence passed? I will not defend any child prediator but right now we have charges and some where I read that there is a presumption of innocent until proven guilty, does that apply in Pennsylvania law?Actually yes, there has been a trial and a grand jury has released their Findings of Fact, which fits all acceptable definitions of having established proof beyond any reasonable doubt.

There will still be more trials and hearings and sentencings (these things take a long time) but we can accept the Grand Jury's findings as proof of guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. So you can stop hiding behind "presumption of innocence" because we're now past that point.

[ConcordCowboy]

"...I wish I had done more."


Understatement of the year.

[Doomsday101]

Actually yes, there has been a trial and a grand jury has released their Findings of Fact, which fits all acceptable definitions of having established proof beyond any reasonable doubt.

There will still be more trials and hearings and sentencings (these things take a long time) but we can accept the Grand Jury's findings as proof of guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. So you can stop hiding behind "presumption of innocence" because we're now past that point.

Grand jury is not a trial it is a hearing to determine if there is evidence to proceed with a trail. Grand Jury send many cases to trial some are found guilty some found innocent so don't tell me a Grand Jury finding is a trail it is not

[JBond]

Taht's more than the story I read this morning. I suppose more is becoming known all the time.

One thing I'm not understanding is what Sandusky was even doing at the school in 2002 when he was no longer a coach there.

They gave him an office via his retirement package. They gave him all sorts of great stuff despite the prior knowledge they had concerning his activity with children.

I think that is what pisses many off. They knew and did nothing to stop him. It is hard to stop a single deviant, but when others know and pretend there is not a problem and allow it to continue...welll..... kinda like the mom that allows the father to beat or molest the children and turns away. That person is absolutely as responsible as the perpetrator.

I wonder how all his adopted kids and foster children are doing.

[Stautner]

Yes they did commit crimes. What is wrong with you today?

http://philadelphiacriminallawnews.com/2011/11/pennsylvania-sexual-abuse-reporting-crime-not-to-do-so.html



Joe Pa deserves to be included as a school admin.

http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/child-abuse/pennsylvania/

The website you cited indicates the school administration can bear some criminal liability, not Paterno. Again, I'm not saying Paterno acted as he could or should have, but so far I haven't seen anything that indicates what he did is a criminal offense.

As I said, I believe Paterno should have followed up after reporting to the school to make sure it got handled properly, and in not doing so is where I think Paterno failed.

You understand? What? Empathy towards the lack of morality displayed in this incident is disturbing to me. So you would have done the same thing? I do not believe that. I would like to believe many of us would have knocked the SOB out and reported him to the police after securing the child. Maybe I am expecting too much of my fellow man. I understand your point, but strongly disagree with rationalizing any culpability away.

You keep treating this as if Paterno saw it and had the chance to knock the guy out, but that isn't the case. As for McQueary. I certainly don't condone the fact that he didn't stop it, but he was not much more than a stunned kid. My guess is he would handle the situation differently now. But again, what I have a problem with is that after having time to clear his head, and as time passed, he didn't start to wonder why the police weren't coming to him to question him about the crime he witnessed, and why he didn't follow up to make sure Sandusky had been dealt with appropriately. I can imagine I would handle such a situation much differently at my age than I would have in my early 20's, but I'm sure even at that age I would take steps to make sure the guy got prosectuted if i saw that my employer wasn't doing so.

[MichaelWinicki]

I'll tell ya, I'll never think of the term "back cracking" the same way every again.

[Stautner]

Actually yes, there has been a trial and a grand jury has released their Findings of Fact, which fits all acceptable definitions of having established proof beyond any reasonable doubt.

There will still be more trials and hearings and sentencings (these things take a long time) but we can accept the Grand Jury's findings as proof of guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. So you can stop hiding behind "presumption of innocence" because we're now past that point.

Wow, are you off base on the court system. A grand jury only finds there is enough evidence to go to trial, not that there is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That's why, as you say, there will be other trials, because the grand jury isn't the actual trial.

They gave him an office via his retirement package. They gave him all sorts of great stuff despite the prior knowledge they had concerning his activity with children.

I think that is what pisses many off. They knew and did nothing to stop him. It is hard to stop a single deviant, but when others know and pretend there is not a problem and allow it to continue...welll..... kinda like the mom that allows the father to beat or molest the children and turns away. That person is absolutely as responsible as the perpetrator.

I wonder how all his adopted kids and foster children are doing.

Now if that is true, and if it is also true that Paterno knew about prior charges, my mindset will start to shift more toward your direction.

[MichaelWinicki]

Now if that is true, and if it is also true that Paterno knew about prior charges, my mindset will start to shift more toward your direction.

One of the things that bothers me is the "Why" Sandusky was told that he would not become Joe's successor back in 1999.

If it comes out that it had to do with the actions of Sandusky as they pertain to this issue, then clearly it was known by at least some people that Sandusky had a history of this. So then 2002 comes around and it comes up all over again, with little done in the way of preventing further issues.

Again, who knew what in 1999?

[Yakuza Rich]

One of the things that bothers me is the "Why" Sandusky was told that he would not become Joe's successor back in 1999.

If it comes out that it had to do with the actions of Sandusky as they pertain to this issue, then clearly it was known by at least some people that Sandusky had a history of this. So then 2002 comes around and it comes up all over again, with little done in the way of preventing further issues.

Again, who knew what in 1998?

According to one of the victims, he was told by Sandusky that he and Paterno had a meeting about the incident and that was why Paterno told Sandusky that he was not going to be the HC.

They knew.

They all knew.





YR

[JBond]

Wow, are you off base on the court system. A grand jury only finds there is enough evidence to go to trial, not that there is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That's why, as you say, there will be other trials, because the grand jury isn't the actual trial.



Now if that is true, and if it is also true that Paterno knew about prior charges, my mindset will start to shift more toward your direction.


The more I read about this the madder I become. Covering for crimes against kids is right up there with committing the actual crimes in my world.

I didn't mean to attack you personally. I know you do not condone the heinous acts that were committed.

[Stautner]

One of the things that bothers me is the "Why" Sandusky was told that he would not become Joe's successor back in 1999.

If it comes out that it had to do with the actions of Sandusky as they pertain to this issue, then clearly it was known by at least some people that Sandusky had a history of this. So then 2002 comes around and it comes up all over again, with little done in the way of preventing further issues.

Again, who knew what in 1999?

I agree, this is a huge issue in this story. If the school (and/or Paterno) knew of allegations and still allowed him to have an office and be affiliated with the school in any way, that's a huge deal.

[Stautner]

The more I read about this the madder I become. It reminds me why my wife and I left the Catholic church. Covering for crimes against kids is right up there with committing the actual crimes in my world.

I didn't mean to attack you personally. I know you do not condone the heinous acts that were committed.

Assuming there isn't more to the story, I just don't see Paterno's part in this as being as serious as the administrations. Paterno took action by reporting it, however as I have said, he feel short in doing the right thing because he should have been aware of whether the school did anything about it, and he shouldn't have allowed the school to bury it.

[MichaelWinicki]

According to one of the victims, he was told by Sandusky that he and Paterno had a meeting about the incident and that was why Paterno told Sandusky that he was not going to be the HC.

They knew.

They all knew.

YR

Seems to point that way. I'm sure we'll get more info as investigators dig deeper in all this.

The other thing that cracks me up is how the 'reporting' of the 2002 incident got less and less serious the further up the ladder it went. From rape to "horsing around" is quite a deviation from the original events. Was that done on purpose? Another thing that will need to be sorted out.

[JBond]

Assuming there isn't more to the story, I just don't see Paterno's part in this as being as serious as the administrations. Paterno took action by reporting it, however as I have said, he feel short in doing the right thing because he should have been aware of whether the school did anything about it, and he shouldn't have allowed the school to bury it.

Should Joe Pa and the assistant be charged with failing to report?

[Dmoore Esq]

Wait a minute, why are you attacking me? Go back about 20 pages ago -- I've already said the guy was wrong, that he should've grabbed a helmet out of a locker and pummeled the old POS immediately.

I thought you were asking me if I'd hire the guy if he *had* stopped the crime right then and there and Paterno had somehow tried to blackball the guy among his coaching peers. Yes, I'd hire him in that case.

Would I hire someone who saw the worst crime possible and did nothing about it? Hell no. But I didn't do that, Joe Paterno did.

Sorry, I jumped into the thread late. I thought you were saying you'd hire him after this whole thing has played out.