ESPN: David Buehler really is hurt

[CCBoy]

David Buehler really is hurt
November, 11, 2011
By Calvin Watkins


http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4686554/david-buehler-is-really-hurt


IRVING, Texas -- Not sure if Cowboys owner/general manager Jerry Jones has seen this but his kicker, David Buehler, has a large black and blue mark on the inside of his right thigh.

Jones said he's frustrated because Buehler injured his groin again and noted his conditioning is an issue. The injury forced the team to put him on injured reserve, which ended his season. If the Cowboys thought Buehler was out of shape, they should have cut him like the team did with Montrae Holland. The team was also upset with the weight of center Andre Gurode, and let him go as well, but that was more to do with his high salary than anything else.

Jones has the right to be upset, but it seems the injury is legit, and whether Buehler is in shape he did have his best game of the season last week against Seattle.

"It sucks," Buehler said outside the Cowboys' weight room in a brief conversation with reporters in which he pulled up his shorts showing the mark on his leg....

When Buehler was injured, causing him to miss four games while he recovered from a groin injury, the Cowboys could have given him an injury settlement and settled on Bailey....

[stasheroo]

Bailey handled the kickoff duties fine, and it doesn't seem as if there is much difference between the two regarding kickoffs. Buehler has attempted 18 with the opponents starting yard-line around the 20. Bailey, with 24 kickoffs, gets the opponents to start at the 22 on average.

Buehler does have more touchbacks (9-6) than Bailey, but it's not something that would push him to the Pro Bowl. When Buehler got healthy, the Cowboys had a chance to cut him but didn't deciding, to maintain this silly stance of keeping two kickers which creates a jam with other spots on the roster.

So with Buehler getting hurt this week, it pushes the Cowboys to have just one place kicker on the active roster. In reality, the Cowboys should have been using one kicker about two weeks ago when Buehler was cleared to play again.

:stupid:

On the plus side, I'm just glad this failed experiment has reached its' end.

[LeonDixson]

I think Buehler will be in camp next year along with Bailey and Forbath. (Hos, don't make any bets on the number of kickers on the pre-season roster next year:D). IMO the real competition will be between Bailey and Forbath. If Bailey stays above 90% accuracy for the remainder of the year he's going to be hard to beat. I've heard different opinions on Forbath's leg strength, but all reports I've seen say he is accurate. If true, and if his leg strength (read kickoffs) are significantly better than Bailey's, he may have a shot. The only way I see Buehler sticking is if Forbath doesn't really shine on kickoffs AND Garrett want's to keep a kickoff specialist.

[Chocolate Lab]

Yeah, Ben and Skin said that injury was really nasty looking, with lots of blood. They were kind of shocked at how ugly it looked.

I really don't know where Jerry is coming from with getting on these players about injuries. He's done it with Barber and others, now Buehler.

[casmith07]

I've learned to ignore Jerry Jones now.

[Reality]

I find it funny how much vitriol can be directed at a player who's spot would likely be taken up with a guy who would basically do the same job he does but minus the kicking.

In other words ..

.. with Buehler you get a kickoff specialist and a solid special teams tackler.

.. without Buehler you maybe get a solid special teams tackler in his spot.


Sometimes the lack of common sense and logic surprises me. And for the record, I am not a Buehler fan nor do I like the idea of carrying two kickers. But I don't get so upset about it like others do because I know Buehler is not a one-dimensional player like most kickers.

#reality

[Hostile]

I find it funny how much vitriol can be directed at a player who's spot would likely be taken up with a guy who would basically do the same job he does but minus the kicking.

In other words ..

.. with Buehler you get a kickoff specialist and a solid special teams tackler.

.. without Buehler you maybe get a solid special teams tackler in his spot.


Sometimes the lack of common sense and logic surprises me. And for the record, I am not a Buehler fan nor do I like the idea of carrying two kickers. But I don't get so upset about it like others do because I know Buehler is not a one-dimensional player like most kickers.

#realityCorrect and will be ignored.

[Future]

I find it funny how much vitriol can be directed at a player who's spot would likely be taken up with a guy who would basically do the same job he does but minus the kicking.

In other words ..

.. with Buehler you get a kickoff specialist and a solid special teams tackler.

.. without Buehler you maybe get a solid special teams tackler in his spot.

#reality
Good point. But it's very possible that the guy replacing Beuhler is used in non-special teams situations. Say another DT or CB considering some of our depth issues there.

[Dough Boy]

Good point. But it's very possible that the guy replacing Beuhler is used in non-special teams situations. Say another DT or CB considering some of our depth issues there.

The point that you are missing, that guy will be the 53rd player. He will mostly likely not be active on game days. There are few street players that will come onto your team this late in the season and get significant playing time.

[SDogo]

Correct and will be ignored.

Now it's not going to be an issue but I had a problem going so thin on the OL and DL just to carry a kicker who can tackle. I'm sure the tune would of been different if Costa, Kosier or Holland would of went down the last 2 weeks.

I still dont see the benefit and I'm not ignoring anything. Just a different opinion on the roster situation.

[Future]

The point that you are missing, that guy will be the 53rd player. He will mostly likely not be active on game days. There are few street players that will come onto your team this late in the season and get significant playing time.
Couldn't Josh Brent have been playing against Philly?

[Reality]

Now it's not going to be an issue but I had a problem going so thin on the OL and DL just to carry a kicker who can tackle. I'm sure the tune would of been different if Costa, Kosier or Holland would of went down the last 2 weeks.

I could see that argument if we were thin with depth there but apparently the coaches do not agree with you since they activated Stephen McGee last week instead of another OL/DL player.

The truth is that most 3rd string backups (what the 46th active roster spot would be on game day) are nothing more than special teams players or bench warmers.

Replacing a guy who can keep it out of the hands of a few of the most dangerous return men in the league and who is a solid special teams player with a guy who may ride the bench the whole game or at best might be a solid special teams players just doesn't make sense.

I am also really surprised how little fans know about the kicking game. Of course everyone "claims" to know everything but they rarely do.

To most fans, if two kickers kick the ball to the goal line, they are equal. Unfortunately, they are not. One may kick the ball considerably higher giving the coverage team more time to get around blockers and converge on the returner.

To most fans, if a kickoff specialist kicks the ball to the 5 yard line, they failed to do their job. That is not always the case. If the special teams coach feels they can stop the guy inside the 20 yard line with a high kick that lands around the goal line, he will tell his kicker to do that.

We have been very fortunate that Buehler was able to kick for us against the 49ers (Ginn who is averaging 29+ yards per return) and the Jets (McKnight who is averaging 40+ yards per return). Unfortunately, we have at least two more games with dangerous returners.

Believe me, I hate carrying two kickers. I hate carrying two punters too. But when the media compares Buehler to Bailey on kickoffs that is about the same as when fans say put McBriar on IR because Chris Jones is about as good.

I am very hopeful that with an offseason of weight lifting with the new strength coach, Bailey will add more muscle and all but remove the need for a kickoff specialist no matter who it would be.

#reality

[Chocolate Lab]

Couldn't Josh Brent have been playing against Philly?

Yep...

[Dough Boy]

Yep...

Brent didn't sit because of Beuler. They could have sat another player. Brent sat because Ryan ran more nickel def than base. The point is, the 53rd player is not going to play that much. They could have sat an OL.

[Eskimo]

To get a bruise like people are talking about there is likely a big tear in the muscle in the muscle involved.

Sometimes a muscle pulls so hard that it tears clear off the bone and causes a fracture - these are called avulsion fractures.

I hope Buehler recovers fully and I hope we put an end to carrying two Kickers on the roster. I'd rather keep an extra spot on the 53 for another developmental player and keep an extra spot on the gameday roster for an extra defender/ST player.

[stasheroo]

I could see that argument if we were thin with depth there but apparently the coaches do not agree with you since they activated Stephen McGee last week instead of another OL/DL player.

The truth is that most 3rd string backups (what the 46th active roster spot would be on game day) are nothing more than special teams players or bench warmers.

Replacing a guy who can keep it out of the hands of a few of the most dangerous return men in the league and who is a solid special teams player with a guy who may ride the bench the whole game or at best might be a solid special teams players just doesn't make sense.

I am also really surprised how little fans know about the kicking game. Of course everyone "claims" to know everything but they rarely do.

To most fans, if two kickers kick the ball to the goal line, they are equal. Unfortunately, they are not. One may kick the ball considerably higher giving the coverage team more time to get around blockers and converge on the returner.

To most fans, if a kickoff specialist kicks the ball to the 5 yard line, they failed to do their job. That is not always the case. If the special teams coach feels they can stop the guy inside the 20 yard line with a high kick that lands around the goal line, he will tell his kicker to do that.

We have been very fortunate that Buehler was able to kick for us against the 49ers (Ginn who is averaging 29+ yards per return) and the Jets (McKnight who is averaging 40+ yards per return). Unfortunately, we have at least two more games with dangerous returners.

Believe me, I hate carrying two kickers. I hate carrying two punters too. But when the media compares Buehler to Bailey on kickoffs that is about the same as when fans say put McBriar on IR because Chris Jones is about as good.

I am very hopeful that with an offseason of weight lifting with the new strength coach, Bailey will add more muscle and all but remove the need for a kickoff specialist no matter who it would be.

#reality

To most fans, when the numbers differ very little, if at all, it's just not worth it.

[big dog cowboy]

Couldn't Josh Brent have been playing against Philly?

Yes he could have. But the decision was made that Brent would be inactive because he is the slowest DL we have.

[Hostile]

To most fans, when the numbers differ very little, if at all, it's just not worth it.To football coaches trying to win it matters a great deal.

[silverbear]

Correct and will be ignored.

Not by all of us, some of us know he's right...

Just look at the job he did kicking off this last game-- 3 touchbacks, 1 the Hawks started on the 6, 1 they started on the 18, and was run back to the 30 from 2 yards deep... average starting position just inside the 19...

Clearly, he's a force on kickoffs, a rare force... but as much as I like having that weapon, I wouldn't be able to justify the two kicker concept if Buehler wasn't also an effective special teams cover guy... to me, the two skills combined justify a roster spot...

[Eskimo]

Not by all of us, some of us know he's right...

Just look at the job he did kicking off this last game-- 3 touchbacks, 1 the Hawks started on the 6, 1 they started on the 18, and was run back to the 30 from 2 yards deep... average starting position just inside the 19...

Clearly, he's a force on kickoffs, a rare force... but as much as I like having that weapon, I wouldn't be able to justify the two kicker concept if Buehler wasn't also an effective special teams cover guy... to me, the two skills combined justify a roster spot...

If this is to be true then he needs to be a factor in FG blocking, FG coverage, punt coverage and punt returns if he is to be considered a pure ST player. He basically needs to beat out a guy like Jesse Holley who is also a pure ST player with little hope of ever developing into a contributor to the offense.

Otherwise he is just a second kicker on the roster. A spot that I think is better used for player development and churning of the roster. We could have kept a guy like Bryan McCann, Sam Young or Josh Thomas instead of him this year.

It'll be interesting to see what we do once we are back down to one punter on the active roster. I hope we use the spot to raid someone's PS or alternatively to add a player from our PS and then find another player to put on the PS. From a roster perspective I actually prefer to steal a player off someone else's PS. I think this is how we got Parnell and Geathers last year and I still have hopes that one (or both) of them can become a contributor(s).

[Hostile]

Not by all of us, some of us know he's right...

Just look at the job he did kicking off this last game-- 3 touchbacks, 1 the Hawks started on the 6, 1 they started on the 18, and was run back to the 30 from 2 yards deep... average starting position just inside the 19...

Clearly, he's a force on kickoffs, a rare force... but as much as I like having that weapon, I wouldn't be able to justify the two kicker concept if Buehler wasn't also an effective special teams cover guy... to me, the two skills combined justify a roster spot...I just don't see how anyone can deny that whomever he is keeping off the roster cannot contribute to as many games as he can simply by kicking off.

[stasheroo]

To football coaches trying to win it matters a great deal.

Not to the 31 others who aren't following this foolish path it doesn't.

[CCBoy]

Not to the 31 others who aren't following this foolish path it doesn't.

Funny, Parcells sent packing a coaching specialist who developed kickers from thin air. Yet when Dallas finally ends up with a pair that acually handle both parts of the deal, field goals and enzone kicks...and there is a near bru ha ha in retaliation. Less we forgot about four years of lost games and high amounts of returned yardage. :rolleyes:

[newlander]

this guy should have been cut 2 months ago. Buehler sucks:bang2:

[stasheroo]

Funny, Parcells sent packing a coaching specialist who developed kickers from thin air. Yet when Dallas finally ends up with a pair that acually handle both parts of the deal, field goals and enzone kicks...and there is a near bru ha ha in retaliation. Less we forgot about four years of lost games and high amounts of returned yardage. :rolleyes:

And the Cowboys since realized their past mistake and brought in Boniol to help coach up their kickers. That looks to have paid off nicely in the actual kicker we do have - Dan Bailey.

I'm perfectly happy with him and he's all we need.

And please drop the 'endzone kicks' charade as it's a clear falsehood. Buehler gets that part right only half of the time.

[baj1dallas]

.. with Buehler you get ... a solid special teams tackler.


I'd prefer somebody who is a solid tackler with speed.

[Hostile]

Not to the 31 others who aren't following this foolish path it doesn't.
They don't have someone to do it or they would.

[stasheroo]

They don't have someone to do it or they would.

What a load.

Funny how we didn't miss 'the ultimate weapon' today.

Not even a little bit.

I am happy to see this failed experiment end.

Go Dan Bailey!

[MarionBarberThe4th]

What a load.

Funny how we didn't miss 'the ultimate weapon' today.

Not even a little bit.

I am happy to see this failed experiment end.

Go Dan Bailey!




The guy only kicks every fg down the middle and kicks touchbacks. All-pro. Why anyone would think we need 2 kickers is beyond me

[zrinkill]

Yea ..... I think Bailey is proving that the Buehler is unnecessary.

[Joe Realist]

I liked bailey's kickoffs yesterday