NFL Committee Makes 19 New Rules Proposals

[trickblue]

NFL Committee Makes 19 New Rules Proposals

By BARRY WILNER
AP Football Writer

KAPALUA, Hawaii (AP) -- A week in Maui was anything but a vacation for the NFL's competition committee. The eight voting members of the committee, headed by Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher and Atlanta Falcons general manager Rich McKay, are making 19 rules proposals to the owners at the annual meetings. Several are controversial enough to cause some vehement debate.

Among the proposals are: adopting the college rule for 15-yard defensive pass interference penalties rather than continuing with spot fouls - unless the foul was within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage; eliminating peel-back blocks below the waist outside the tackle box; and extending replay challenges to cover fumbles on plays already whistled by officials because the ball carrier was down by contact.

The committee also seeks to eliminate "horse-collar tackles," where the defender grabs the ball carrier inside the back of the shoulder pads and immediately drags him down while also falling on his legs. Such tackles would be deemed unsportsmanlike conduct, a 15-yard penalty.

"We want to eliminate dangerous plays that lead to injuries," Fisher said Monday. "We looked at all injury tapes and 90 percent of lower extremity injuries, eight or nine could've been avoided. Four or five were associated with this type of technique.

"We're not singling out Roy Williams," Fisher added of the Dallas safety whose horse-collaring of Terrell Owens broke the leg and damaged the ankle of the Eagles' star receiver. "We're singling out a technique."

Fisher said he doesn't favor the college rule on pass interference, a proposal made by the Chiefs.

"I believe it will encourage lots of penalties," he said, emphasizing interference would happen too often on downfield plays.

Defensive pass interference beyond 15 yards that is considered flagrant will make the penalty a spot foul, McKay said. That, in theory, should prevent intentional tackles of receivers by a defender who is badly beaten on a long pass. But Fisher said he isn't so sure.

"It will have a dramatic effect on the passing game," he said.

Kansas City also suggests 5-yard illegal contact penalties not carry an automatic first down for the offense.

Perhaps the most contentious suggestion by the committee concerns the instant replay for down-by-contact plays. So the committee is proposing just a one-year experimentation.

There were less than 20 situations over the last two seasons where the down-by-contact call was incorrect. But because it can involve a change of possession, the committee felt it was worth being challengeable.

"If this passes," Fisher said, "the referee would be able to look at the play through recovery (of the ball). If he could not see clearly the recovery, the offense would retain the ball."

Another replay change would be the elimination of the buzzer system, which McKay and Fisher both comically mentioned abuses by certain coaches to slow down the run of play. No longer will coaches be able to claim the buzzer went off accidentally because they won't be hooked up; only by throwing the red flag onto the field will they be able to alert officials about a challenge.

"If you throw the flag and don't have any more challenges or timeouts," McKay added, "it will be a (15-yard) penalty."

Another proposal will protect a player who is out of a play from being blindsided, a tactic often used against kickers or punters, or against quarterbacks after an interception.

New England proposed positioning two TV cameras at each goal line to assist coaches on whether to challenge a play, and to aid the referee when examining an instant replay.

The competition committee also suggests penalizing a team for calling a second timeout in the same dead ball situation. It will be considered unsportsmanlike conduct, a 15-yard penalty.

Earlier Monday, commissioner Paul Tagliabue told the owners that talks to extend the collective bargaining agreement with the players are "at a dead end."

While Tagliabue would not concede that internal squabbles have stalled talks, it was evident from owners that the simmering contention between high-revenue and low-revenue teams has contributed as much to the impasse as a division between the union and the league.

"The union is asking for a lot of money," said Dan Rooney, the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers, one of the have-not teams. "We can't get to that because of where we are among ourselves."

[Boom]

"We want to eliminate dangerous plays that lead to injuries," Fisher said Monday. "We looked at all injury tapes and 90 percent of lower extremity injuries, eight or nine could've been avoided. Four or five were associated with this type of technique.


I guess they lost the chop block footage.

[LA=Pancakemaker]

Fisher should be fire as a coach and kicked right out of the nfl - technique my *** you *****!

[31smackdown]

Does anyone know who the 8 voting members are?

[ghst187]

The committee also seeks to eliminate "horse-collar tackles," where the defender grabs the ball carrier inside the back of the shoulder pads and immediately drags him down [B]while also falling on his legs. Such tackles would be deemed unsportsmanlike conduct, a 15-yard penalty.
."
Will that mean you can still grab the collar but just not if you fall on his legs? Also, will this rule only apply to Roy Williams or will it be enforced throughout the league?

[trickblue]

Will that mean you can still grab the collar but just not if you fall on his legs? Also, will this rule only apply to Roy Williams or will it be enforced throughout the league?

You know the answer to that one... he will be watched more closely than any other player...

Any coaches that have lost players to this type of tackle should NOT be on the voting committee...

Jeff Fisher lost a player to this and by stating that he "isn't singling Roy Williams out"... well... he is doing JUST that...

[Jarv]

Will that mean you can still grab the collar but just not if you fall on his legs? Also, will this rule only apply to Roy Williams or will it be enforced throughout the league?

Great points. This rule will not pass because its too hard to tell or call the way its worded there. You can grab the collar, but not fall on their legs ? I don't recall Roy falling on TO's legs...Once you make a grab of a player and both of your momemtums are going forward, how can you tell were you will land...What if you grab him by the collar and he falls on the defenders legs, does the Ofeensive guy get a penalty ?

Will the call be reveiwable ? Is the facemask call reveiwable ?

Also, someone in another thread post a animated gif of the Musa tackle...As he stated, Roy had to make a grab of the collar because of the stiffarm to his facemask.

This could end up being a ploy, even if the rule is not voted in, you know the refs will be out looking for Roy in SOME way, just because the whole topic was brought up.

[Everlastingxxx]

I guess i am of the rare few that thinks Roy's technique is to hurt players. Calico's injury was so avoidable, Roy could have easily pushed him out of bounce. Not to offend anyone, but some of you guys live in LaLa land.

Personally i liked some of these new rules, but don't change the pass interference rule. And something needs to be done about coaches seeing the replays fast enough to see if they want to challenge.

[Compacity]

Man fischer is a discombobulated, feebleminded, halfbaked ....

He just mad because most of his team is gone from injuries... look at Derek Mason, McNair, Eddie George, Haynesworth, Kevin Carter, Tyrone Calico, Samari Rolle, and Chris Brown was gone from injures none of em with the team any more... Titans are weak anyway with their overrated defense...

[Compacity]

I guess i am of the rare few that thinks Roy's technique is to hurt players. Calico's injury was so avoidable, Roy could have easily pushed him out of bounce. Not to offend anyone, but some of you guys live in LaLa land.

Personally i liked some of these new rules, but don't change the pass interference rule. And something needs to be done about coaches seeing the replays fast enough to see if they want to challenge.

Man it's making the NFL weak... can you see that?

That helmet to helmet rule is dumb...because back in the days Ronnie Lott and Lawrence Taylor use to do it all the time...

[jksmith269]

My question is when are they going to address the overtime rules????? I like the college system better.

and while there making changes to the replay system why not include bad calls by the ref as reveiwable?????

[Everlastingxxx]

Man it's making the NFL weak... can you see that?

That helmet to helmet rule is dumb...because back in the days Ronnie Lott and Lawrence Taylor use to do it all the time...

No, what makes the NFL weak is tons of scrubs playing because all the good players are on IR. I am a huge Roy fan, yet i can see past the blue and silver glasses to say that his collar tackles are extremely dangerous. But really, doesn't matter, Roy is gonna hurt players either way. No big deal, not sure why every is getting their panties in a knot.

The NFL is FAR from a weak game.

[trickblue]

I guess i am of the rare few that thinks Roy's technique is to hurt players. Calico's injury was so avoidable, Roy could have easily pushed him out of bounce. Not to offend anyone, but some of you guys live in LaLa land.

Personally i liked some of these new rules, but don't change the pass interference rule. And something needs to be done about coaches seeing the replays fast enough to see if they want to challenge.

I respectfully disagree... Williams was visibly upset after the injury to Musa Smith in last years Ravens game...

Pretty much all tackles are "meant" to hurt... so in that I agree... but very few tackles are meant to injure...

I think Roy has more in mind to "shake them up"... not to seriously injure them...

[Doomsday101]

No, what makes the NFL weak is tons of scrubs playing because all the good players are on IR. I am a huge Roy fan, yet i can see past the blue and silver glasses to say that his tackles is extremely dangerous. But really, doesn't matter, Roy is gonna hurt players either way. No big deal, not sure why every is getting their panties in a knot.

The NFL is FAR from a weak game.

Because some of us pay to watch a football game not some touch football game. If guys are worried about getting hurt then find another sport to play.

[31smackdown]

I guess i am of the rare few that thinks Roy's technique is to hurt players. Calico's injury was so avoidable, Roy could have easily pushed him out of bounce. Not to offend anyone, but some of you guys live in LaLa land.


I don't disagree with you... I think there is a certain intimidation factor that Roy deploys.... but that is part of his role as a safety. His job is not just to tackle, but to intimidate like all of the great safeties that have come before him. So no, he does not just try to tackle people, he tries to knock the snot out of them or demoralize them while he tackles them. It's a mental edge in the game, what is going to intimidate you more, some guy pushing you forward and falling down for 3 yards or some guy grabbing you and dragging you down backwards for 1 yard. Believe me, the next time that same player comes to tackle you, you are going to be a little more hesitant. I'm not saying this is right, but it is the precedent for a player of his position. Football is a violent sport, it's not a pickup game with a bunch of friends.

[Everlastingxxx]

Because some of us pay to watch a football game not some touch football game. If guys are worried about getting hurt then find another sport to play.

With or without collar tackles, the NFL provides PLENTY of bone jarring hits. Did the NFL need the closeline tackle to survive? I am a big boxing fan, yet even in a sport as violent as boxing, there are rules. Football needs rules. I don't mind seeing another year of broken legs by Roy's Collar tackles. But really, Roy has the respect of everyone. Rarely does anyone come over the middle against him. Either way, Roy is gonna bring the pain...with or without the collar.

[Everlastingxxx]

I respectfully disagree... Williams was visibly upset after the injury to Musa Smith in last years Ravens game...

Pretty much all tackles are "meant" to hurt... so in that I agree... but very few tackles are meant to injure...

I think Roy has more in mind to "shake them up"... not to seriously injure them...

Roy isn't stupid. He knows what he is doing and the risks involved. The NFL isn't stupid either.

[Doomsday101]

With or without collar tackles, the NFL provides PLENTY of bone jarring hits. Did the NFL need the closeline tackle to survive? I am a big boxing fan, yet even in a sport as violent as boxing, there are rules. Football needs rules. I don't mind seeing another year of broken legs by Roy's Collar tackles. But really, Roy has the respect of everyone. Rarely does anyone come over the middle against him. Either way, Roy is gonna bring the pain...with or without the collar.

This is not about Roy in my opinion it is about constantly changing of the rules. Football is a physical game and player will get hurt that is just the way it is and has always been and trying to legislate injuries out of the game is a joke. I don't pay money to see a big name player I pay to watch a football game

[ghst187]

if no one can grab the collar, where does that end? Can you grab shoulder pads anywhere? Is the arm part of the shoulder pad?
If they take away grabbing the collar, isn't it only fair to disallow the offensive player from using stiff arms? Roy grabbed Musa's collar only because he got such a severe stiff arm and wouldn't have been able to hold anything else.

I know a lot of guys have been injured from leg tackles, that should be outlawed too, its soo completely avoidable. Just don't tackle anyone. And blocking too, lots of guys have been injured when they got blocked, so that's definitely out.
Vick got injured scrambling a few times, so no more scrambling for QBs.
A few fans got injured attending Philly games, so definitely that should be outlawed.
I saw one ref get injured once, so definitely no refs on the field.
A few guys have gotten the wind knocked out of them by falling on the football, so definitely get rid of the football.
There have been a lot of traffic accidents on the way to the games, so definitely no more fans allowed to drive.
I saw Dan Snyder give a mean look once and that hurt someone's feelings, so definitely no more Snyder.
One time, someone got hurt by talking about football so definitely no more of that...
anyone for mime ballet on a 100 yard field? remember no touching or harsh looks

[Everlastingxxx]

if no one can grab the collar, where does that end? Can you grab shoulder pads anywhere? Is the arm part of the shoulder pad?
If they take away grabbing the collar, isn't it only fair to disallow the offensive player from using stiff arms? Roy grabbed Musa's collar only because he got such a severe stiff arm and wouldn't have been able to hold anything else.

I know a lot of guys have been injured from leg tackles, that should be outlawed too, its soo completely avoidable. Just don't tackle anyone. And blocking too, lots of guys have been injured when they got blocked, so that's definitely out.
Vick got injured scrambling a few times, so no more scrambling for QBs.
A few fans got injured attending Philly games, so definitely that should be outlawed.
I saw one ref get injured once, so definitely no refs on the field.
A few guys have gotten the wind knocked out of them by falling on the football, so definitely get rid of the football.
There have been a lot of traffic accidents on the way to the games, so definitely no more fans allowed to drive.
I saw Dan Snyder give a mean look once and that hurt someone's feelings, so definitely no more Snyder.
One time, someone got hurt by talking about football so definitely no more of that...
anyone for mime ballet on a 100 yard field? remember no touching or harsh looks

Let me ask you this. Are you in favor of closeline hits? Was it a good idea to outlaw them? Yes or No, and why?

Are you in favor of facemask penalties? I mean, why limit the game...so what if someone gets their head ripped off. It's football...a MAN'S game.

How about NO RULES! Can you imagine how great the game would be? I mean, come on...this isn't flag football. :rolleyes:

[ghst187]

not advocating anarchy, just sick and tired of continual rule changes driven by the cries of star offensive players to benefit themselves and make it more difficult to play defense.
Not to mention the fact that most of these rule changes stem from a COWBOY doing something when its perfectly okay for Bronco OL to chop block (talk about knee injuries), any WR to push off when facing our DBs, and offenses to run illegal pick plays. Maybe the players need more money to play such a mean game? Let me ask you this: Are you in favor of chop blocks, stiff arms, or pick plays? if so why...
Is there any way you could be more overdramatic? why or why not
Who did you vote for in the last election?
Are you a chick?

[blindzebra]

Let me ask you this. Are you in favor of closeline hits? Was it a good idea to outlaw them? Yes or No, and why?

Are you in favor of facemask penalties? I mean, why limit the game...so what if someone gets their head ripped off. It's football...a MAN'S game.

How about NO RULES! Can you imagine how great the game would be? I mean, come on...this isn't flag football. :rolleyes:

Come on, this is apples and oranges.

The closeline, facemasking and helmet to helmet contact can cause FATAL or PERMINATE injury.

The head and spine is a lot different than a leg.

[Catch-22]

How else is Roy Williams supposed to tackle TO on that play? Is he supposed to let him score?

[cwbys4evr]

""We're not singling out Roy Williams," Fisher added of the Dallas safety "
Hey guess what genius - you just did.

[cwbys4evr]

Good point. It would still be better to commit a penalty than to allow a touchdown.

[Everlastingxxx]

The closeline, facemasking and helmet to helmet contact can cause FATAL or PERMINATE injury.

You know, in all the years of watching football, i have never seen anyone get injured from a face mask penalty.

Let me ask you, what would you choose...a helmet to helmet hit or your leg being snapped from a collar tackle?

How many leg/knee injuries have ended careers? I think its best to protect players from senseless injuries.

[Everlastingxxx]

Let me ask you this: Are you in favor of chop blocks, stiff arms, or pick plays? if so why...

Still arms are ok as long as they don't go to the face. Chop blocks are very dangerous. Pick plays are illegal.

Is there any way you could be more overdramatic?
Who did you vote for in the last election?
Are you a chick?

What the hell does this have to do with anything? So everytime someone disagrees with your point of view, you ask..."hey, are you a chick?" Wow.

[royhitshard]

""We're not singling out Roy Williams," Fisher added of the Dallas safety "
Hey guess what genius - you just did.
LMAO! Great post! :lmao:

[blindzebra]

You know, in all the years of watching football, i have never seen anyone get injured from a face mask penalty.

Let me ask you, what would you choose...a helmet to helmet hit or your leg being snapped from a collar tackle?

How many leg/knee injuries have ended careers? I think its best to protect players from senseless injuries.

Why not ask Darryl Stingley?

Or Nick Buoniconti's son?

[Everlastingxxx]

Why not ask Darryl Stingley?

Or Nick Buoniconti's son?

Stingley has hit helmet to helmet...NFL has cracked down on that and passed new rules.

Marc Buoniconti was hit by an illegal spear. He was had an unknown prior spinal problem and faulty equipment was the cause.

None of these have to do with my comment about face mask penalties.

[jobberone]

I guess i am of the rare few that thinks Roy's technique is to hurt players. Calico's injury was so avoidable, Roy could have easily pushed him out of bounce. Not to offend anyone, but some of you guys live in LaLa land.

Personally i liked some of these new rules, but don't change the pass interference rule. And something needs to be done about coaches seeing the replays fast enough to see if they want to challenge.

You're certainly entitled to feel that way but you are wrong. Period. That is not true but I'm basing that on heresay. But the sources are reliable.

Plus look at the film.

Not flaming you just stating my opinion.

[blindzebra]

Stingley has hit helmet to helmet...NFL has cracked down on that and passed new rules.

Marc Buoniconti was hit by an illegal spear. He was had an unknown prior spinal problem and faulty equipment was the cause.

None of these have to do with my comment about face mask penalties.

I have seen players twist knees and ankles from getting facemasked.

You lumped them together, remember?

The horse collar in rare occassions may cause an injury, anything involving the head and neck risks perminate injury or death. They are NOT the same thing.

[Everlastingxxx]

You're certainly entitled to feel that way but you are wrong. Period. That is not true but I'm basing that on heresay. But the sources are reliable.

Plus look at the film.

What are the sources? I would like to see the clips of those injuries again. Oh, and i am never wrong! :p:

[Everlastingxxx]

The horse collar in rare occassions may cause an injury, anything involving the head and neck risks perminate injury or death. They are NOT the same thing.

The horse collar tackle is more likely to cause a season ending injury before a facemask or head to head injury. The guys Roy ended their season, was it from his head to head shots or the collar tackle? If i am correct, Bo Jackson's career ended prematurely from a collar tackle.

[Banned_n_austin]

I think Roy has more in mind to "shake them up"... not to seriously injure them...


That's the name of the game. Having said that, I don't think this is really a big deal for us. Just the fact that it's being raised gives us a fear advantage. No one wants to go down like that. The Broncos have a fear advantage on thier side. They're being "watched", but in the end the advantage goes to the Broncos for their style of leg blocks. Fear can dominate your opponent.

[Banned_n_austin]

Great points. This rule will not pass because its too hard to tell or call the way its worded there. You can grab the collar, but not fall on their legs ? I don't recall Roy falling on TO's legs...Once you make a grab of a player and both of your momemtums are going forward, how can you tell were you will land...What if you grab him by the collar and he falls on the defenders legs, does the Ofeensive guy get a penalty ?

Will the call be reveiwable ? Is the facemask call reveiwable ?

Also, someone in another thread post a animated gif of the Musa tackle...As he stated, Roy had to make a grab of the collar because of the stiffarm to his facemask.

This could end up being a ploy, even if the rule is not voted in, you know the refs will be out looking for Roy in SOME way, just because the whole topic was brought up.


It's been a while since I've read a post authored by "Jarv" I think. . .

[blindzebra]

The horse collar tackle is more likely to cause a season ending injury before a facemask or head to head injury. The guys Roy ended their season, was it from his head to head shots or the collar tackle? If i am correct, Bo Jackson's career ended prematurely from a collar tackle.

Bo was hit in low as he was being pulled down.

Smith rolled up under Williams.

Owens got his foot caught in the turf.

Calico feet slipped on the sideline paint.

How they were being tackled had very little to do with their injuries.

MANY MORE PLAYERS HAVE THEIR SEASONS END FROM CUT BLOCKS BETWEEN THE TACKLES AND HAD OWENS NOT BEEN THE ONE HURT WE WOULD NOT BE HEARING SQUAT ABOUT THIS CHANGE.

[Banned_n_austin]

How else is Roy Williams supposed to tackle TO on that play? Is he supposed to let him score?


This rule won't pass IMO. But I agree on that tackle. TO has a speed advantage. Roy used basic angles on that play. It really is just part of the game. Someone may not like that because they got the rough end of the stick, but the tackle wasn't illegal.

It's just that. . .poor TO was hurt on the play...the prima donna...that can't happen or he'll just have to do his best Dennis Rodman impression and bust out his wedding dress, cuz he looked like Roy's - - - - - on that play. :D

[Avery]

Here's the Musa Smith injury:

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/4228/hc6eb.gif

I guess from now on, Roy should let himself be stiffarmed in the face and let go of the runner. He held onto him and did not purposely fall on his legs. He was in mid-air for crying out loud!

Hate to say it, but we're seeing the pussification of the league. Football is a rough sport and injuries happen.

[Doomsday101]

Here's the Musa Smith injury:

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/4228/hc6eb.gif

I guess from now on, Roy should let himself be stiffarmed in the face and let go of the runner. He held onto him and did not purposely fall on his legs. He was in mid-air for crying out loud!

Hate to say it, but we're seeing the pussification of the league. Football is a rough sport and injuries happen.


Looking at that video I see no other option Roy had, he either makes the tackle as he did or he lets the ball carrier take it to the house. I also do not think Roy intent was to hurt the runner his intent was to bring him down and that is what he is paid to do.

[Vertigo_17]

Thanks for the visual Avery.

[RESIN8]

I get it now, Jeff Fischer is still bent on losing Tyrone Calico for the season last year casue Roy took him out, while those jerks were laughing(remember that?) on the sideline about Roy getting stiff armed by Chris Brown they didn't understand what would happen afterwords that Roy always gets redemption. I say HAHA tough it. Jeff you're only gonna be in this league for another year casue you got an owner who has no respect for you and told the media that Tennessee was losing games cause they were being out coached. How is that for being singled out?

also there is a certain risk reward thing you get from playing football. I mean in the end you are playing a game for the reward of Millions of dollars, free stuff and fame. The Risk is that injuries do occur and serious injuries can be the result. I mean a telephone guy climbs a tower so that he can put a roof over his head and feed his family he may get more money caue there is a certain amount of risk involved. The risk is that he could fall and get injured or even die.

I fyou don't like the risk involved than get out so somebody else with enough guts can come into the game and play it.

[Everlastingxxx]

Avery good job. Although Roy got stiff armed because Roy likes to tackle HIGH. To say his only option was to grab the collar is insane. Roy is a big boy, he doesn't come off the ground by accident.

Show the Calico injury if possible.

[Doomsday101]

Avery good job. Although Roy got stiff armed because Roy likes to tackle HIGH. To say his only option was to grab the collar is insane. Roy is a big boy, he doesn't come off the ground by accident.

Show the Calico injury if possible.

BS Roy made the tackle the only way he could and the ball carrier is no little kid out there he is a well conditioned athlete. If the runner does not stiff arm Roy takes him down without grabing the collar but when you have a guy pushing your head backwards then your going to grab whatever you can to get the runner down.

[Banned_n_austin]

I say HAHA tough it. Jeff you're only gonna be in this league for another year casue you got an owner who has no respect for you and told the media that Tennessee was losing games cause they were being out coached. How is that for being singled out?



:laugh2:


http://www.wowow.co.jp/drama_anime/southpark/img/c_chef.gif

Preach it brotha'.

[ghst187]

Looking at that video I see no other option Roy had, he either makes the tackle as he did or he lets the ball carrier take it to the house. I also do not think Roy intent was to hurt the runner his intent was to bring him down and that is what he is paid to do.

that stiff arm/punch to the face should've been flagged if anything is going to be, that's the exact same thing Erik Williams did to DL and they made a whole new rule that you can't do that anymore while blocking....why can RBs do it on stiff arms.
If they pass a new "horsecollar" rule it will be the gayest thing the NFL has done since the "in the grasp rule". Its preposterous. Its been done as long as there have been shoulder pads in football. And if they're going to make this gay*** rule they're going to have to give up something in return or its flat out HUGE advantage to the offensive player.

[ghst187]

What the hell does this have to do with anything? So everytime someone disagrees with your point of view, you ask..."hey, are you a chick?" Wow.

actually something to that effect and then if they have a problem with that I beat them severely...using a good horsecollar tackle

[Everlastingxxx]

actually something to that effect and then if they have a problem with that I beat them severely...using a good horsecollar tackle

Go back to 3rd grade.

[Banned_n_austin]

that stiff arm/punch to the face should've been flagged if anything is going to be, that's the exact same thing Erik Williams did to DL and they made a whole new rule that you can't do that anymore while blocking....why can RBs do it on stiff arms.
If they pass a new "horsecollar" rule it will be the gayest thing the NFL has done since the "in the grasp rule". Its preposterous. Its been done as long as there have been shoulder pads in football. And if they're going to make this gay*** rule they're going to have to give up something in return or its flat out HUGE advantage to the offensive player.


It's not going to pass though. . .

The WHOLE league hates TO. It's not just us Dallas fans. Jeff Fisher may be the only other guy that votes for this. Other teams are going to wet their undies if TO is hurt. He's a punk.

[joseephuss]

Everlast asked about the difference in a horse collar tackle and a face mask. I think leverage is the answer.

A ball carrier could still have enough power and leverage to pull a defender who is grabbing the top of the shoulder pads. I have seen plenty of guys still fall forward when being tackled around the shoulder pads. Musa Smith was still going forward when Roy grabbed him. His momentum caused Roy to come off the ground and into his legs. In other cases, Roy is strong enough to just pull the guy down like he did T.O.

But even a small player gains great leverage on a ball carrier when they grab the face mask. Facemasks are easy to grab and hold and where the head goes, the body tends to go. A strong guy like Roy would easily be able to bring a guy down if he were allowed to face mask. Even the NFL realized that not all facemask penalties were the same and now have a 5 yard and 15 yard penalty.

[ghst187]

Go back to 3rd grade.

go back to the school for girls..

[jobberone]

What are the sources? I would like to see the clips of those injuries again. Oh, and i am never wrong! :p:

I understand that. :)

This is inside information and that's all I can say. And I can't get it often or it will dry up. That's why I said it was hearsay.

The referees don't need more judgment stuff.

Again hearsay from an ACC official trying to make it to the bigs thru another party; they are overwhelmed and some are complaining albeit quietly. This one is really hearsay as I don't know the ACC official but do the other party so take that with a grain of salt.

[Nav22]

I am a huge Roy fan, yet i can see past the blue and silver glasses to say that his collar tackles are extremely dangerous.

You know what else is dangerous? The part of the game where a defender grabs an offensive player and...brace yourself...throws/slams/pushes/wraps up to take him to the ground! (AKA a "tackle")

HOW HAVE THEY NOT BANNED THIS?! I guarantee if they ban these barbaric acts of violence, there will be FAR less injuries and all the star players will not only be healthy, but their uniforms will be clean as the day they were made! Now wouldn't THAT be great!?

[jobberone]

Here's the Musa Smith injury:

http://img28.exs.cx/img28/4228/hc6eb.gif

I guess from now on, Roy should let himself be stiffarmed in the face and let go of the runner. He held onto him and did not purposely fall on his legs. He was in mid-air for crying out loud!

Hate to say it, but we're seeing the pussification of the league. Football is a rough sport and injuries happen.

Thank you sir for that. I remembered it kinda but there it is in black and white.

Good post.

[DallasEast]

To say his only option was to grab the collar is insane.The video clearly shows Williams' left arm about to wrap around Smith's chest. It's obvious that was going to be Williams' first tackle option--namely, wrapping both arms around Smith chest high to make the tackle.

Smith wasn't having any of that, so he stiff-armed Williams. That action created separation between the two players. In that split second, Williams was faced with either: (a) allowing Smith to completely evade his tackle or (b) grabbing hold of any portion of Smith's body to make the tackle.

Since Smith totally negated Williams effectively tackling him with his left arm, the only option left was 'b'. Any good tackler would've made the same tackle.

[jimmy40]

Man fischer is a discombobulated, feebleminded, halfbaked ....

He just mad because most of his team is gone from injuries... look at Derek Mason, McNair, Eddie George, Haynesworth, Kevin Carter, Tyrone Calico, Samari Rolle, and Chris Brown was gone from injures none of em with the team any more... Titans are weak anyway with their overrated defense...Jeff Fisher is a hell of a coach.

[Banned_n_austin]

I'm glad our coach is busy worrying about players and not this rules stuff.

[jimmy40]

Bo was hit in low as he was being pulled down.

Smith rolled up under Williams.

Owens got his foot caught in the turf.

Calico feet slipped on the sideline paint.

How they were being tackled had very little to do with their injuries.

MANY MORE PLAYERS HAVE THEIR SEASONS END FROM CUT BLOCKS BETWEEN THE TACKLES AND HAD OWENS NOT BEEN THE ONE HURT WE WOULD NOT BE HEARING SQUAT ABOUT THIS CHANGE.
Bo wasn't hurt from any low hit and the way they were tackled had EVERYTHING to do with their injuries. If Witten got hurt with the same tackle every person crying in this thread would be screaming and hollering to make the tackle illegal and to put the tackler in jail.

[jimmy40]

I'm glad our coach is busy worrying about players and not this rules stuff.
I'm sure Fisher hasn't given a thought about players. :rolleyes:

[blindzebra]

Bo wasn't hurt from any low hit and the way they were tackled had EVERYTHING to do with their injuries. If Witten got hurt with the same tackle every person crying in this thread would be screaming and hollering to make the tackle illegal and to put the tackler in jail.

Witten got speared as a rookie, I don't remember a huge uproar.

Ekuban broke Julius Jones shoulder blade with an illegal hit, again there was no big out cry.

Bo got hit in the ankles while getting pulled down, the pinning of his foot along with the torgue popped his hip.

Owens got his foot stuck in the turf. The same injury happened to Key WITHOUT ANY CONTACT!

Calico's feet went in opposite directions on the sideline paint.

Smith's leg was planted and got rolled on, that type of injury happens all the time.

There are several factors in each of these cases and how they were tackled was just a small part.

[RW Hitman]

I guess i am of the rare few that thinks Roy's technique is to hurt players. Calico's injury was so avoidable, Roy could have easily pushed him out of bounce. Not to offend anyone, but some of you guys live in LaLa land.

Personally i liked some of these new rules, but don't change the pass interference rule. And something needs to be done about coaches seeing the replays fast enough to see if they want to challenge.

Why don't we just put dresses on these players, give them twirlers and tell them they must cheer for the cheerleaders from now on...

It is that kind of thinking right there that is destroying this game.
Just like Vinny Testaverde said last year about QBs saying they wear pads too.

If a hit is on the field, then fair game. Plain and simple. If the guy with the ball doesn't want to risk getting hurt while running with the ball down the sideline, then he should step out of bounds. How hard is that?
If a wr fears getting hurt in the middle, then he can either demand sitting on the bench, or ask for more money so that he can pay someone to feed him his jello for the rest of his life

This game is getting so watered down now that golf is starting to look dangerous.

Here are some of the rules I do like in that bunch and some I don't:

Don't like the Roy Rule..... sucks, just another way for teams to take away from a good player.

Pass interference rule ... I do like this one, I think it is ridiculous for a team to have a easy score handed to them because a WR, who may not even have catched the ball anyways, was touched. Teams should have to grind out the field, not given to them.

The Illegal contact beyond 5 yards not automatic first down proposed rule... I like this rule because the refs need to stay out of the game more. I mean it was crazy how many times last year where defenders were penalized for touching the wr and then it is automatically a first down? thats nuts, let the guys play the game.

The hitting a player away from the play rule... for me, I would have to know how far away from the play the guy getting hit was. If a player has a chance to catch up to the play and make it, then he is fair game.

calling a 2nd timeout during deadball proposed rule... this has got to be one of the most assinine rule changes ever... if a team has a timeout to use and wants to waste it by calling two in a row, so be it. its their right.

calling penalty on coaches who throw red flag when already out of challenges... well this one i agree with, that way coaches will just put the flag away if all used up. but one other thought on this is to just take the flag away when they are used up.

As far as coaches having the ability to have enough time to watch a replay so to know whether or not to call a challenge, well that is part of the game and part of the risk of using that flag. I say leave that be. If the other team rushes to get a play off, then good for them if they succeed. It is better to just pay a smarter guy to just watch the replay upstairs instead of expecting perfection in the game.

as far as refs and penalties go, teams should have to earn everything, so the more teams move down the field due to penalties rather than skill just takes away from the game. CBs and safeties and wrs should be allowed to play the game. incidental contact should be overlooked. defenders who are running full speed at qb should not be expected to stop on a dime, and finally there are only a few techniques that I can think of that should be banned and only because of the documented dangers that could occur (such as facemask and chop blocks)

[Banned_n_austin]

I'm sure Fisher hasn't given a thought about players. :rolleyes:


I just think he's worried about the wrong thing.

[phildominator]

The competition committee also suggests penalizing a team for calling a second timeout in the same dead ball situation. It will be considered unsportsmanlike conduct, a 15-yard penalty.

Isn't this already illegal? I remember during the Barry Switzer years, Aikman had to call a second timeout while inside the other team's red zone and was called for a penalty.

Of course, Aikman was pissed off he had to call a 2nd timeout, but he was even more pissed when he found out it was a penalty.

If I recall, it was on Monday Night Football because I remember Al Michaels and criticizing it. Anyone remember?