Andy Reid on SNR Radio

[AmishCowboy]

I just heard Andy Reid on Sporting News Radio say he would be in favor of making the Horse Collar tackle a 15 yard penalty. said there must be a better way and that he "has to deal with it twice a year". What a shot across Roy's Bow!. Sounded to me like Andy is doing a little whining about the T.O. injury last year!. What a Crybaby!. I think the Cowboys lead the NFL is having rules made up just for them! :iggles: :jints: :skins:

[DWAREZ]

yep..what a wuss ...I hope ROY DESTROYS :) TO again this time from the front!!

[EGG]

yep..what a wuss ...I hope ROY DESTROYS :) TO again this time from the front!!

LMFAO ROYDESTROY, that is the funniest avatar I've seen in a long time~! :p:

[trickblue]

funny how those coaches directly affected by it want it banned... it is a high-risk tackling technique for sure... but certainly not dirty... or illegal...

Perhaps Mr. Reid should address some of his own safeties' techniques in tacking...

[NicholasD]

He has a problem with horse collar tackles but has zero issues with Dawkins freaking suplexing people?

[Shaun]

The turf at the Vet used to injure more people than any players could have. Between that and Dawkins, why would he start to care now?

[purgatoryruss]

Maybe coach Reid should thanks Roy. Otherwise we would of had to of seen every sports channel show us his fat a** wearing tights. after TO scored on some other team.

[ghst187]

everyone acts like Roy is the only person who has ever grabbed a collar to make a tackle.
Reid doesn't seem to object to horsecollaring a thousand krispy cremes....which IMO should definitely be a penalty for decency

[Natedawg44]

I hope Roy makes it his signature tackle after this and we lead the league in horse collar tackling. If I was Parcells I would tell Roy to tackle however the heck he wants let me worry about any penalties afterwards.

[Juke99]

I realize it's not popular to say this around here but that tackling technique, which is a Roy trademark, has made me very uncomfortable. It's not a desperation tackle where the only thing he's got left to bring the guy down with is his jersey. In fact, Roy positions himself to make that tackle.

I LOVE to watch Roy pulverize opponents. Fav all time hit was the one he layed on Toomer..and that was thiiiiis close to being penalized.

So, I'm not a fan of flag football rules. In fact, I used to love to watch Jack Tatum, Butkus, Atwater...our own Cliff Harris, Too Tall, etc...

But this tackle, in my estimation, is done with the intent to cause harm in a different way than a massive hit.

There's nothing wrong with a player having the intent to cause harm to an opponent, so that's not my gripe. When people get into discussions saying it's not Roy's intent to hurt an opponent with the tackle, I find it kinda pointless. There are several players who tackle with the intent to hurt an opponent. That's a huge part and an acceptable part, of the game. No one is going to convince me that a direct hit, with full force, isn't meant to hurt an opponent. And that's fine with me.

But there's just something about that horse collar tackling technique that bugs me and feels similar to going after a guy's knees. It just feels kinda "bush league" to me.

[MichaelWinicki]

I realize it's not popular to say this around here but that tackling technique, which is a Roy trademark, has made me very uncomfortable. It's not a desperation tackle where the only thing he's got left to bring the guy down with is his jersey. In fact, Roy positions himself to make that tackle.

I LOVE to watch Roy pulverize opponents. Fav all time hit was the one he layed on Toomer..and that was thiiiiis close to being penalized.

So, I'm not a fan of flag football rules. In fact, I used to love to watch Jack Tatum, Butkus, Atwater...our own Cliff Harris, Too Tall, etc...

But this tackle, in my estimation, is done with the intent to cause harm in a different way than a massive hit.

There's nothing wrong with a player having the intent to cause harm to an opponent, so that's not my gripe. When people get into discussions saying it's not Roy's intent to hurt an opponent with the tackle, I find it kinda pointless. There are several players who tackle with the intent to hurt an opponent. That's a huge part and an acceptable part, of the game. No one is going to convince me that a direct hit, with full force, isn't meant to hurt an opponent. And that's fine with me.

But there's just something about that horse collar tackling technique that bugs me and feels similar to going after a guy's knees. It just feels kinda "bush league" to me.


There is something to be said about your argument.

What amazes me is that it takes considerable strength to do what he does with that kind of force. I'm amazed it's taken how many years for this to suddenly be a problem?

[Juke99]

There is something to be said about your argument.

What amazes me is that it takes considerable strength to do what he does with that kind of force. I'm amazed it's taken how many years for this to suddenly be a problem?


Yeah...interesting perspective...I've wondered the same thing...

In fact, I really can't recall ever seeing a player attempt to tackle in this manner.

The thing that concerns me is, IF the NFL doesn't do something, we can all talk all the brash talk we want...but one of our players is going to pay because that's just the nature of the league. The players will figure out a way to "legislate"...and I wonder what we'll be saying when Sean Taylor or someone else, takes Julius Jones out for a season with the same kind of tackle.

[djmajestik]

So now, from behind, players have to decide mid-leap mind you, that they cannot grab the collar, and if they do, then they need to let go IMMEDIATELY and let the runner go. If they happen to grap a facemask, they must IMMEDIATELY let go. And they must make this split second decision IMMEDIATELY.

And they must not lead with their head. Who here has ever tried to hit someone and wrap up without dipping your head??

And all these thoughts must happen in what .... half a second??

I understand that some plays (spearing and the like) must be banned but let them play football. If they happen to grab someone's collar while diving to make a game saving tackle, and bring the player down, so be it.

If they lead with their head with the intent to wrap up and in the process catch the crown of their helmet on the chin, so be it.

This is football. It's about time we started letting these guys that make millions of dollars play the game, instead of forcing them to make decisions that, let's face it, very few if any people could make.

My two cents,

[djmajestik]

And yes, I would be upset if JJ was taken out by a collar tackle for the season, but it's part of the game. Players get injured. I can't blame S Taylor for hurting a player while in the middle of making a tackle.

It happens!

[Cbz40]

You make a good argument Juke.........something to think about indeed.

[Juke99]

So now, from behind, players have to decide mid-leap mind you, that they cannot grab the collar, and if they do, then they need to let go IMMEDIATELY and let the runner go. If they happen to grap a facemask, they must IMMEDIATELY let go. And they must make this split second decision IMMEDIATELY.

And they must not lead with their head. Who here has ever tried to hit someone and wrap up without dipping your head??

And all these thoughts must happen in what .... half a second??

I understand that some plays (spearing and the like) must be banned but let them play football. If they happen to grab someone's collar while diving to make a game saving tackle, and bring the player down, so be it.

If they lead with their head with the intent to wrap up and in the process catch the crown of their helmet on the chin, so be it.

This is football. It's about time we started letting these guys that make millions of dollars play the game, instead of forcing them to make decisions that, let's face it, very few if any people could make.

My two cents,


I respect your two cents...

But the scenario you describe isn't what Roy does....these aren't game saving tackles where he dives and happens to grab someone's collar.

In fact, it's pretty easy to see that he positions himself to make the tackle. You KNOW it's coming before he does it.

The issue will be, how can the NFL legislate intent...they can't make a black and white ruling that states, "No tackling by the collar" because then in fact, the scenario that you described, would be considered illegal.

I want to see what people's reactions here will be when someone takes out one of our players with the same tackle...because If I were an opponent, I'd do it in a second.

[Aikmaniac]

To amplify what Winicki was saying about strength, I think Roy's tackling is beginning to be a problem simply because he is one of the only players in the league that has the strength to make that tackle. To put the questioned hits in perspective:

1. T.O. - Roy takes a bad angle and knows if he doesn't make that tackle, T.O. goes all the way, putting the game out of reach.

2. Musa Smith - A wicked stiffarm almost brakes Roy's neck but he grabs whatever he can to get that big mofo on the ground. Same thing...if he doesn't make that tackle, it's a TD.

3. Calico - Roy was pissed after the Chris Brown stiff arm, so he probably took some frustration out on this guy.


Andy Reid needs to worry about Dawkins' style of tackling...this isn't the WWE.

[Juke99]

To amplify what Winicki was saying about strength, I think Roy's tackling is beginning to be a problem simply because he is one of the only players in the league that has the strength to make that tackle. To put the questioned hits in perspective:

1. T.O. - Roy takes a bad angle and knows if he doesn't make that tackle, T.O. goes all the way, putting the game out of reach.

2. Musa Smith - A wicked stiffarm almost brakes Roy's neck but he grabs whatever he can to get that big mofo on the ground. Same thing...if he doesn't make that tackle, it's a TD.

3. Calico - Roy was pissed after the Chris Brown stiff arm, so he probably took some frustration out on this guy.


Andy Reid needs to worry about Dawkins' style of tackling...this isn't the WWE.


Please don't amplify Winicki.... I prefer the Winicki "unplugged" version. :)

I dunno if I agree with your scenarios in 1 and 2.

Before both of those tackles, I knew they were coming...you can just flat out see it...there's a difference in a desperation tackle and what Roy does...

We might be able to argue if it is his intent to cause harm to a player with the tackle...but I just don't see how we can argue that it is his INTENT to position himself to make that style tackle

In fact, if it were the case where Roy was simply grabbing on to whatever he could to make the tackle, the NFL wouldn't be discussing this in the first place.

Just my opinion.

Thank you for yours...that's what makes this board a great place.

[Aikmaniac]

No problem, Juke99...and I agree about the board being a great place.

I just don't think Roy has the intention of seriously injuring players. He doesn't come off as that type of individual at all.

I wonder how much this will hinder his playmaking ability though? Not saying that he'll be, all of the sudden, average at best, but for him to know that he's under a microscope this season might have an impact on his gameplay.

[Jarv]

I realize it's not popular to say this around here but that tackling technique, which is a Roy trademark, has made me very uncomfortable. It's not a desperation tackle where the only thing he's got left to bring the guy down with is his jersey. In fact, Roy positions himself to make that tackle.

I LOVE to watch Roy pulverize opponents. Fav all time hit was the one he layed on Toomer..and that was thiiiiis close to being penalized.

So, I'm not a fan of flag football rules. In fact, I used to love to watch Jack Tatum, Butkus, Atwater...our own Cliff Harris, Too Tall, etc...

But this tackle, in my estimation, is done with the intent to cause harm in a different way than a massive hit.

There's nothing wrong with a player having the intent to cause harm to an opponent, so that's not my gripe. When people get into discussions saying it's not Roy's intent to hurt an opponent with the tackle, I find it kinda pointless. There are several players who tackle with the intent to hurt an opponent. That's a huge part and an acceptable part, of the game. No one is going to convince me that a direct hit, with full force, isn't meant to hurt an opponent. And that's fine with me.

But there's just something about that horse collar tackling technique that bugs me and feels similar to going after a guy's knees. It just feels kinda "bush league" to me.

I'm not so sure I agree with you Juke, at least in all case's. Look at the Musa Smith tackle. Roy was coming in on an angle and was getting stiffarmed into his face ! As he is falling down he makes a desperate grab and gets the collar, now, I think the difference here is that Smith may have run through that grab on many players, but the strenght of Roy's hands allowed him to hang on and bring Smith down. In the process Smith got hurt.

Again, if you watch the gif that I think Avery posted, you would see that Smith did indeed face mask Roy...and would have broken that run for a real long gain if Roy does not make that tackle. He was NOT trying to position himself for that tackle and probably wouldn't have even made the tackle the way he did if it were not for the stiff arm to his facemask.

Having said all of that, I don't like to see any player injured. I just hope, if this rule pass's that it becomes reveiwable.....and I'm really interested to see what language they use to explain the rule. Like collar grabs are ok, just don't fall on leggs ? Shoulder pad tackles are ok even if you fall on legs...Its ok if you are diving at someone from behind ? etc...

[Yeagermeister]

So Roy gets penalized when he hits or tackles a player?

[SA_Gunslinger]

I just heard Andy Reid on Sporting News Radio say he would be in favor of making the Horse Collar tackle a 15 yard penalty. said there must be a better way and that he "has to deal with it twice a year". What a shot across Roy's Bow!. Sounded to me like Andy is doing a little whining about the T.O. injury last year!. What a Crybaby!. I think the Cowboys lead the NFL is having rules made up just for them! :iggles: :jints: :skins:


this is so ridiculous.

since when is tackling illegal?

if this was ANYONE else but T.O.....you think anyone would have even NOTICED let alone tried to make this happen?????? and especially since it was a cowboys player, too.

weak.

take off the dresses, people.

[Hollywood Henderson]

I couldn't diagree more with you Juke, Roy is going to need to do whatever he can to make the tackle...

Players like TO & others are faster then him and it all happens in a split second...

Its outright foolish IMHO to say he has intent to do anything BUT make the tackle...

Perhaps if players have a concern about being injured around Roy, they should just go down? Or NOT play the GAME?

[Doomsday101]

I couldn't diagree more with you Juke, Roy is going to need to do whatever he can to make the tackle...

Players like TO & others are faster then him and it all happens in a split second...

Its outright foolish IMHO to say he has intent to do anything BUT make the tackle...

Perhaps if players have a concern about being injured around Roy, they should just go down? Or NOT play the GAME?

I agree. I think some around here watch too many football movies. LOL This game is very fast and guys are not thinking of trying to hurt the other guy they are using their instinct and training to make plays, in the course of the game player will get hurt and it is not uncommon to see a look of real concern on all players faces when one of their peers is hurt during a game because each man out there understands that could be them just as easy.

[LA=Pancakemaker]

Maybe coach Reid should thanks Roy. Otherwise we would of had to of seen every sports channel show us his fat a** wearing tights. after TO scored on some other team

Amen this fat loser whining his fat *** off! this has to be the biggest farce I have heard of......if your running after a wr that just caught a ball you cant grab them?( You can but just not on the shoulder pads) that makes sense?

[Aikmaniac]

Good luck, Andy. Roy Williams is pissed.

[jimmy40]

I just heard Andy Reid on Sporting News Radio say he would be in favor of making the Horse Collar tackle a 15 yard penalty. said there must be a better way and that he "has to deal with it twice a year". What a shot across Roy's Bow!. Sounded to me like Andy is doing a little whining about the T.O. injury last year!. What a Crybaby!. I think the Cowboys lead the NFL is having rules made up just for them! :iggles: :jints: :skins:Like I said in another post, if Witten got injured by the same horse collar tackle you same guys would be crying for a rule change.

[ghst187]

Roy is a straight A class act. We're not talking about Kevin Gogan or Bill Romanowski here, we're talking about a guy who put a clean hit on Emmitt and literally was moved to tears because Emmitt was injured by it. The horsecollar isn't a cheap or dirty technique and I assure you that Roy isn't purposely trying to injure anyone with it. Roy is a big, strong, and heavy guy dragging down some big, strong, and heavy guys from behind with their momentum going away from him....if the guys weren't struggling for extra yards, none of them would've gotten injured.
I'm really not sure what DBs are going to do if they are further emasculated, they can't touch a WR on their route, they can't hit a WR as he goes for the ball, and now they can't tackle them after they catch it? Or do they have to run around the WR after the catch so they can make a proper and NFL-approved form tackle on the WR?

[jimmy40]

I realize it's not popular to say this around here but that tackling technique, which is a Roy trademark, has made me very uncomfortable. It's not a desperation tackle where the only thing he's got left to bring the guy down with is his jersey. In fact, Roy positions himself to make that tackle.

I LOVE to watch Roy pulverize opponents. Fav all time hit was the one he layed on Toomer..and that was thiiiiis close to being penalized.

So, I'm not a fan of flag football rules. In fact, I used to love to watch Jack Tatum, Butkus, Atwater...our own Cliff Harris, Too Tall, etc...

But this tackle, in my estimation, is done with the intent to cause harm in a different way than a massive hit.

There's nothing wrong with a player having the intent to cause harm to an opponent, so that's not my gripe. When people get into discussions saying it's not Roy's intent to hurt an opponent with the tackle, I find it kinda pointless. There are several players who tackle with the intent to hurt an opponent. That's a huge part and an acceptable part, of the game. No one is going to convince me that a direct hit, with full force, isn't meant to hurt an opponent. And that's fine with me.

But there's just something about that horse collar tackling technique that bugs me and feels similar to going after a guy's knees. It just feels kinda "bush league" to me.Maybe this is the only way Roy can tackle TO. He sure couldn't tackle him in the first game last year and TO made him look pretty stupid when he tried.

[Yeagermeister]

Roy is a straight A class act. We're not talking about Kevin Gogan or Bill Romanowski here, we're talking about a guy who put a clean hit on Emmitt and literally was moved to tears because Emmitt was injured by it. The horsecollar isn't a cheap or dirty technique and I assure you that Roy isn't purposely trying to injure anyone with it. Roy is a big, strong, and heavy guy dragging down some big, strong, and heavy guys from behind with their momentum going away from him....if the guys weren't struggling for extra yards, none of them would've gotten injured.
I'm really not sure what DBs are going to do if they are further emasculated, they can't touch a WR on their route, they can't hit a WR as he goes for the ball, and now they can't tackle them after they catch it? Or do they have to run around the WR after the catch so they can make a proper and NFL-approved form tackle on the WR?
The DB's are supposed to let the wr catch the ball then run it in for a td

[SuspectCorner]

I realize it's not popular to say this around here but that tackling technique, which is a Roy trademark, has made me very uncomfortable. It's not a desperation tackle where the only thing he's got left to bring the guy down with is his jersey. In fact, Roy positions himself to make that tackle.

I LOVE to watch Roy pulverize opponents. Fav all time hit was the one he layed on Toomer..and that was thiiiiis close to being penalized.

So, I'm not a fan of flag football rules. In fact, I used to love to watch Jack Tatum, Butkus, Atwater...our own Cliff Harris, Too Tall, etc...

But this tackle, in my estimation, is done with the intent to cause harm in a different way than a massive hit.

There's nothing wrong with a player having the intent to cause harm to an opponent, so that's not my gripe. When people get into discussions saying it's not Roy's intent to hurt an opponent with the tackle, I find it kinda pointless. There are several players who tackle with the intent to hurt an opponent. That's a huge part and an acceptable part, of the game. No one is going to convince me that a direct hit, with full force, isn't meant to hurt an opponent. And that's fine with me.

But there's just something about that horse collar tackling technique that bugs me and feels similar to going after a guy's knees. It just feels kinda "bush league" to me.
i get zero satisfaction from seeing opponent players injured to the point they cannot continue. ZERO. this includes TO.

but give me an example of this "bush league" technique injuring players - that DOESN'T include roy williams.

juke, with all due respect, i have to say i strongly disagree with you.

football is a game of contact and roy, no matter how soft-spoken and nice off the field, is one of the more violent persons playing it.

roy is gonna hurt a lot of players during his career. some worse than others. yet he he is creating nothing new to the NFL in the way he tackles. he just does it with more force than we are accustomed to.

roy is dangerous man on the gridiron. but should the league hamstring defenders with yet another piece of legislation that will provide offenses with an unfair advantage - just because roy hurt a few guys?

i don't like the direction football is moving in. they will eventually legislate this sport into a cotillion dance.

[Aikmaniac]

I wonder how BP approaches Roy this offseason for this particular rule?

Does he tell him to alter his techniques or does he say to not let this hinder his style?

[jimmy40]

I wonder how BP approaches Roy this offseason for this particular rule?

Does he tell him to alter his techniques or does he say to not let this hinder his style?He tells him to quit grabbing the back collar of shoulderpads.

[Aikmaniac]

He tells him to quit grabbing the back collar of shoulderpads.

Oh, ok. :D

[Everlastingxxx]

But there's just something about that horse collar tackling technique that bugs me and feels similar to going after a guy's knees. It just feels kinda "bush league" to me.

Good to know someone out there can see things from a non-bias angle. When i first saw Roy tackle TO...i shook my head and turned around and told my gf "every time he tackles like this, he hurts someone."

[jimmy40]

Good to know someone out there can see things from a non-bias angle. When i first saw Roy tackle OT...i shook my head and turned around and told my gf "every time he tackles like this, he hurts someone."I don't understand why he does it. Roy can hit a ton and can tackle with the best of safeties, he doesn't need to do this. It's a chickn chit way to tackle.

[Danny White]

Yeah...interesting perspective...I've wondered the same thing...

In fact, I really can't recall ever seeing a player attempt to tackle in this manner.
With all due respect, I think you're wrong about this Juke. Since the TO injury, I started looking for this tackle and I noticed at least a dozen other times -- in college and pro games -- where a player (usually in the secondary) made a horse collar tackle. Usually the player is much smaller and lighter than Roy, so the net effect is simply a harmless drag-down and not nearly as devastating as what he does, but these tackles happen.

I remember seeing one in a college game where a CB horse collared a big reciever or TE and was actually dragged into the endzone by the reciever. I remember it because I had it TIVOed and I rewound it and made my wife watch it over and over while I ranted about how this is the same kind of tackle Roy gets crucified over simply because he executes it better.

Also, the TO tackle was a desperation tackle that probably saved a touchdown.

And the Musa Smith one, as many others have pointed out, wasn't really a horse collar, and the injury was brought about not by the force of Musa being dragged down, but by the momentum of Roy's body being swung into Musa's leg, mostly due in fact to the stiff-arm.

[Doomsday101]

I don't understand why he does it. Roy can hit a ton and can tackle with the best of safeties, he doesn't need to do this. It's a chickn chit way to tackle.

When your trying to tackle a guy from behind it is because the ball carrier got behind the defender. There is nothing chicken about it and many players do the same thing.

[Aikmaniac]

I think he did the same in the pro bowl. Didn't someone make some clips of this year's pro bowl?

[jimmy40]

When your trying to tackle a guy from behind it is because the ball carrier got behind the defender. There is nothing chicken about it and many players do the same thing.
Roy was not behind TO, he came from the side and went straight for the back collar of the shoulder pads. Show me video of all these MANY other players that do this.

[Aikmaniac]

jimmy, TO juked Roy and was running away from him. We all know Roy isn't catching TO if he turns that corner. That was a great tackle...blame TO's cleats or the turf for the injury.

[Doomsday101]

Roy was not behind TO, he came from the side and went straight for the back collar of the shoulder pads. Show me video of all these MANY other players that do this.

He came from an angle and grabbed a very strong WR with decent speed, you bring a guy down any way you can, if not TO has proven time and again he will break away from the defender. You can cry all you want but this is football not touch football and again every one does it.

[Everlastingxxx]

Also, the TO tackle was a desperation tackle that probably saved a touchdown.

And the Musa Smith one, as many others have pointed out, wasn't really a horse collar, and the injury was brought about not by the force of Musa being dragged down, but by the momentum of Roy's body being swung into Musa's leg, mostly due in fact to the stiff-arm.

TO was surrounded by Cowboys. Roy could have easily tackled him WITHOUT the Horse Collar.

Musa, Roy let Musa beat him, then came in high. (Roy loves to tackle high, wonder why?) Roy then leaves the ground, so he can use his weight to bring the player down. Had Musa not stiff armed, he might have left with TWO broken legs.

How about the Calico injury. Calico was running towards the sidelines...why do you need to stop his progress with a collar tackle? Remember earlier in the game Roy was humiliated by Brown...why? Because Roy was going for his collar. :rolleyes:

[Chief]

he "has to deal with it twice a year".

Andy "has to deal with it twice a year?"

:rolleyes:

I think Andy should be more worried about his heart, which has to "deal with" pumping blood through 400 pounds of whale blubber to keep him alive every day.

Or more worried about his own ankles that have to carry around that enormous carcass every day.

Andy Reid ... the poster boy for health and safety.

[Hollywood Henderson]

Your right Danny!
I am offended by these "Girly men" talk...Maybe they should go watch golf? ;)

[Aikmaniac]

Andy "has to deal with it twice a year?"

:rolleyes:

I think Andy should be more worried about his heart, which has to "deal with" pumping blood through 400 pounds of whale blubber to keep him alive every day.

Or more worried about his own ankles that have to carry around that enormous carcass every day.

Andy Reid ... the poster boy for health and safety.

I literally laughed out loud at this one.

Those poor, poor ankles. :D

[kingwhicker]

Andy Reid is just like something you see every day in Lancaster County, AmishCowboy:a big, fat pile of cow dung.

[kingwhicker]

I literally laughed out loud at this one.

Those poor, poor ankles. :D

They are more like cankles.

[Danny White]

TO was surrounded by Cowboys. Roy could have easily tackled him WITHOUT the Horse Collar.

Musa, Roy let Musa beat him, then came in high. (Roy loves to tackle high, wonder why?) Roy then leaves the ground, so he can use his weight to bring the player down. Had Musa not stiff armed, he might have left with TWO broken legs.

How about the Calico injury. Calico was running towards the sidelines...why do you need to stop his progress with a collar tackle? Remember earlier in the game Roy was humiliated by Brown...why? Because Roy was going for his collar. :rolleyes:

You're wrong on both counts, watch the TO video again, and you can see that TO is in the clear if he beats Roy.

Musa Smith... Roy's body swinging around breaks that leg.

Calico was bad... mostly because he's almost out of bounds.

[The30YardSlant]

I hope Roy "accidentally" "trips" and falls into Andy Reid with such force that Reid wakes up 15 pounds lighter :D

[royhitshard]

I hope Roy "accidentally" "trips" and falls into Andy Reid with such force that Reid wakes up 15 pounds lighter :D
LMFAO!!!! Simply put, this wasn't even an issue until TO was injured. Nobody wanted to ban it when Calico or Musa was injured.

[ravidubey]

I realize it's not popular to say this around here but that tackling technique, which is a Roy trademark, has made me very uncomfortable. It's not a desperation tackle where the only thing he's got left to bring the guy down with is his jersey. In fact, Roy positions himself to make that tackle.

I LOVE to watch Roy pulverize opponents. Fav all time hit was the one he layed on Toomer..and that was thiiiiis close to being penalized.

So, I'm not a fan of flag football rules. In fact, I used to love to watch Jack Tatum, Butkus, Atwater...our own Cliff Harris, Too Tall, etc...

But this tackle, in my estimation, is done with the intent to cause harm in a different way than a massive hit.

There's nothing wrong with a player having the intent to cause harm to an opponent, so that's not my gripe. When people get into discussions saying it's not Roy's intent to hurt an opponent with the tackle, I find it kinda pointless. There are several players who tackle with the intent to hurt an opponent. That's a huge part and an acceptable part, of the game. No one is going to convince me that a direct hit, with full force, isn't meant to hurt an opponent. And that's fine with me.

But there's just something about that horse collar tackling technique that bugs me and feels similar to going after a guy's knees. It just feels kinda "bush league" to me.

Roy Tackles this way because it's a sure thing.

Besides, how do you judge it if you're a ref? Do you make the collar off limits like the facemask is? Will NFL jerseys all be made with a tighter neck opening to narrow the collar?

[TobiasEagle77]

That doesn't sound like something Reid would say. He usually dodges questions like a politician. If he did say it, it's definitely out of character.

For the record, I don't think the horse-collar rule should be implimented.

[jimmy40]

You're wrong on both counts, watch the TO video again, and you can see that TO is in the clear if he beats Roy.

Musa Smith... Roy's body swinging around breaks that leg.

Calico was bad... mostly because he's almost out of bounds.
I saw it again today and TO wasn't in the clear yet. The Musa Smith injury was just a freak deal because of the stiff arm, of course if Roy wouldn't have been trying to tackle so high he wouldn't have gotten stiff armed. Calico was indeed bad.

[CoCo1]

I don't frankly care if they outlaw the collar tackle. Gives the offense another advantage? Well, I consider it too miniscule to fret over. Not like its the only way Roy can tackle.

I know your supposed get all up in arms and talk about putting players in dresses etc. But it makes total sense to be prudent about this violent game. People get bent out of shape when the league cracks down but do the masses really believe the league has become too "non-violent?" Gimme a break. Hey chin up folks, still plenty of opportunity for life changing injuries if that's what is necessary to be a man and "play the game like its supposed to be played."

What I find incredible in this is that apparently Roy Williams is indeed some sort of freak. Collar-tackle injuries were not an issue until he came along. I haven't studied the incidents in question but it appears to more a matter of freakish strength than technique. Its apparently a safe technique except when Roy is the tackler. And taking this technique away won't stop Roy from hurting people because he seems to do that no matter the technique. Ok, maybe not as seriously but nevertheless the is an injured opponent waiting to happen. I find that really weird because I don't think he's dirty, just dangerous and its gonna be that way as long as tackling by Roy remains legal.

Lets exaggerate to make a point. What if Roy put a player out for the season every time he tackled them? Should the league step in? You bet, because he would wipe out the league. Its grossly exaggerated but nevertheless has some truth to it and after last years injuries they're considering mitigating the risk. I don't think it has a single thing to do with the fact that Roy is a Cowboy. Immaterial. But if players truly are at risk they need to take that into account. Maybe they will need to modify things to the point that Roy is not allowed to hit anyone anymore. Just touch them and they're down. Absurd I know and yet with Roy it has perhaps more basis than this league has seen before. Pretty wild.

[DWAREZ]

everyone acts like Roy is the only person who has ever grabbed a collar to make a tackle.
Reid doesn't seem to object to horsecollaring a thousand krispy cremes....which IMO should definitely be a penalty for decency

LOL....krispy cremes banned from the NFL ...The ANDY REID RULE
LOL

[Reed]

I wonder what roy can power clean cause this tackle is all quick srength and the power clean is a burst of strength, would be interesting to know

[Juke99]

A few thoughts on this...

I agree, it will be near impossible to officiate this call...how can a black and white rule be made about grabbing a guy by the collar? What if, in fact, it's the only thing a defender can reach?

Again, I am not saying I have any problem with guys making a hard tackle. As I said earlier, even if that hard tackle is with the intent to hurt. When I played, I tried to lay the other player out EVERY time I made a tackle.

But this tackle by Roy is done with intent....no one can judge if it is done with intent to injure...

Now, that said, I am kinda puzzled over all the comments here saying that I am wrong about Roy going out of his way to tackle guys like this....why is the NFL looking at this and why is Roy the guy that has been identified? And why is Jerry openly saying that the Cowboys will vote for a ban of the Roy Williams tackle, IF all Roy was trying to do was prevent game winning touchdowns by grabbing anything available in order to tackle a guy????

And I'm not buying the anti-Cowboy stuff as an explanation...ya know, I hate to break the news but we haven't had the juice to be important enough for there to be an anti-Cowboy bias in years. And Jerry is going to vote for a rule that is anti-Cowboy? Jerry the maverick who thumbed his nose at every other owner AND the NFL when he made his $$$ deals with sponsors, is suddenly going to vote against his own team?

[speedkilz88]

This rule wouldn't bother me so much if they would also ban all aspects of chop blocking. Then when they say the rule is all about protecting players(not singling anyone out), I could actually believe them.

I bet you Jeff Fisher made quite a few horse collar tackles in his day.

[Grevus]

I hope Roy makes it his signature tackle after this and we lead the league in horse collar tackling. If I was Parcells I would tell Roy to tackle however the heck he wants let me worry about any penalties afterwards.


I hope the opposite. If he needs to keep doing it, then our defense still stinks.

[Seven]

I couldn't diagree more with you Juke, Roy is going to need to do whatever he can to make the tackle...

Players like TO & others are faster then him and it all happens in a split second...

Its outright foolish IMHO to say he has intent to do anything BUT make the tackle...

Perhaps if players have a concern about being injured around Roy, they should just go down? Or NOT play the GAME?

Holy crap!! Talkin defense and ol' Hollywood doesn't bash Zimmer for Roy's tacklin' tactics!!! http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
Supposed to rain tomorrow but now I doubt it.http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

P.S.
Roy will take T.O. behind the woodshed next year. Bet!!

[Vertigo_17]

I hope Roy makes it his signature tackle after this and we lead the league in horse collar tackling. If I was Parcells I would tell Roy to tackle however the heck he wants let me worry about any penalties afterwards.

Amen - 15 yards is better than a TD

[Vertigo_17]

Shouldn't Reid be worrying where his next meal is coming from?

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Anyone else see the irony in the head coach of a goon defence which has injured more than its fair share of players whining about facing a horse collar tackler twice a year?

[Snaggletooth]

If the NFL starts banning tackling techniques everytime someone gets hurt, well then pretty soon the NFL is gonna have to start attaching flags to the players belts.

[SuspectCorner]

But this tackle by Roy is done with intent....no one can judge if it is done with intent to injure...

c'mon juke. am i to believe you are privy to the mind and intent of roy williams? in 46 years i have yet to meet one single graduate of "mind-reading school".

jerry is taking a "politically correct" stance - as it is one of his players at the center of this tempest in a teapot. he will be on record as "opposed to player injuries". at the same time he is probably hoping sanity will prevail and this NON-ISSUE will disappear - as it should.

[Waffle]

Roy simply runs towards ballcarriers and pulls them down from behind. The fact that T.O., Tyrone Calico, and Musa Smith were injured because of Roy's tackling technique shouldn't be the impetus to initiate some silly new NFL rule prohibiting the maneuver, IMO.

Let's get real...Bronco O-Lineman have been chop blocking and injuring defensive players for years now and nothing has been done about it. Now that a Cowboy player is at the center of the discussion once again, there needs to be a new rule? Why am I not shocked!

Erik Williams and his hands initiated a rule change. Emmitt Smith and his helmet removal celebrations resulted in a new NFL rule. I can only speculate that if Ed Reed had made those same tackles, the media would be singing his praises.

Roy pulls ballcarriers down from behind on occasion. If players don't want to get tackled from behind, perhaps they should run a little faster.