ESPND: Cowboys Talk - MacMahon says Witten isn't as good as Rob Gronkowski

[cowboyjoe]

ESPN Dallas Live: Cowboys Talk
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/dallas/play?id=7271640
Tim MacMahon says Cowboys TE Jason Witten is a Hall of Famer, but not as good as New England's Rob Gronkowski.

Note:I totally disagree with this, lets see how long gronkowski plays and if he keeps his nose clean, remember rob got into some trouble with the patriot family awhile back, eventually that kind of behavior gets you into trouble and your career breaks down early.

[tomson75]

Timmay strikes again.

It's nice that ESPN Dallas would hire someone with Tourettes.

[cowboyjoe]

Timmay strikes again.

It's nice that ESPN Dallas would hire someone with Tourettes.

yeah, i wasnt even going to post it, but when he said that about rob being better than witten, i took offense and posted to see what you all had to say

[cowboyjoe]

can someone fix the title for me, probably should say espn:MacMahon says Witten isnt as good as Rob Gronkowski

thanks in advance

[Hostile]

I was telling people while he was still at AZ that Gronkowski will be one of the best. He is physical and has the same knack Witten does of getting open.

[ChldsPlay]

If he's talking just about this year as a receiver, then yeah he's right. If he's talking long term, then it's way too early to think about that.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

:laugh2:

What a clown. Rob has played great this year, but Jason Witten has consistently been the best tight end in the game for several years.

[tomson75]

I'm sure the fact that the Patriots have little to no ground game escaped Timmay....

I'd love to see the number of times each player has been targeted.....I'd wager that Gronkowski's targets are WAY higher.

Don't get me wrong....the guy is balling, but he's not better than Witten.

[vlad]

Not saying the following because of this post, but has Tim McMahon ever written a quality article? You know, along the lines of a Bob Sturm or that kid that used to write for the DMN that went to the NFL network (I think Albert Ross or something?)...I swear, the opportunity these guys have, and the quality they put out compared to people like Vela or folks on this site is mind boggling.

He may have, I just haven't seen anything. I remember he used to try to be a funny guy or something...good grief.

[cowboyjoe]

I was telling people while he was still at AZ that Gronkowski will be one of the best. He is physical and has the same knack Witten does of getting open.

and i own up to it when im wrong, so right now rob has proved me wrong, i thought he would have issues with his back, most players that have that kind of surgery dont do to well or come back real well, so i was wrong about rob

:cool:

[The Panch]

Gronkowski is a much better redzone threat, but that's it.

[Risen Star]

Gronkowski probably is playing better than any other TE in the league this year.

[JBell523]

Gronkowski probably is playing better than any other TE in the league this year.
Yep.

This is a Cowboys board though, so I'm not surprised by some of the comments.

[cbow44]

How is Gronkowski's blocking compared to Wittens. all I see is his receiving skills.

[DTK]

Gronkowski probably is playing better than any other TE in the league this year.
I don't know about that, the kid from New Orleans is having the best statistical year of all tight ends to this point. Having said that, he appears to be a pure receiving tight end. Just glad I drafted him for my fantasy team this year. :)

[Dhragon]

Not saying the following because of this post, but has Tim McMahon ever written a quality article? You know, along the lines of a Bob Sturm or that kid that used to write for the DMN that went to the NFL network (I think Albert Ross or something?)...I swear, the opportunity these guys have, and the quality they put out compared to people like Vela or folks on this site is mind boggling.

He may have, I just haven't seen anything. I remember he used to try to be a funny guy or something...good grief.

Albert Breer is who you were thinking of. And yeah, he was here not nearly long enough. Best Cowboys writer by a mile.

[mmohican29]

McMahon is a fool. Gronkowski is a fabulous player, but to say Jason isn't "as good" as him discounts ENTIRELY his unbelievable career in terms of prodcution, reliability, leadership, and mettle.

It also is blind to the type of offenseive scheme the Patriots use game to game vs. Jasons' versatility and in-line TE prowess.

Jason isn't "perfect". And RGronk might be quicker and more talented than Jason but let's see how his numbers look 7 years into his career.

Bottom line- JWitt is a first ballot HOF player by any measurement if he walks off the field tomorrow. Is Gronkowski a HOF player yet?

Idiot.

[Reality]

Every year, the media proclaims a new tightend to be the best in the game. Players like Jeremy Shockey, Chris Cooley, Vernon Davis, etc. have been labeled "best in the game" at different times. In fact it was just in the last year or two that I remember hearing one sports commentator say Jason Witten was just the third best tight-end in the NFC East behind Cooley and Celek.

In the end, all that matters is results. The media focuses on the rabbits while the hall of fame focuses on the hares. Witten may be the hare but he rabbits every so often too :D

#reality

[Randy White]

between being a better " athlete " and being a better " player ".. Gronkowski looks to be the second coming of Tony Gonzalez, but then again, there have been TE's who looked to be the same, only to crash and burn in a few years OR never live up to expectations.

ain't that right Kellen Winslow Jr ? what do you say Vernon Davis ?

We'll see if Gronkowski is playing at the same level in a few years. I know Jason has.

[Randy White]

despite the excellent amount of talent at the skill position tha the Cowboys have, you want to know why the Cowboys' offense has struggled so much in the first half of the past 2 games ( possibly even 3 ) ?

Check out Jason Witten's stats in those games at that point.

You want to know why they've played better in the 2nd half and won both ?

Check out Jason Witten's stats in those games at that point.


Just sayin'.. :cool:

[yimyammer]

Albert Breer is who you were thinking of. And yeah, he was here not nearly long enough. Best Cowboys writer by a mile.

No kidding, I was so disappointed when he left, he was by responsive to emails as well, good to see his efforts rewarded, but selfishly I wish he was still around

[ThreeSportStar80]

Gronkowski probably is playing better than any other TE in the league this year.

Joey Graham is leading all TE's in receiving yards and TD's, he's a true young stud!

[preacher238]

Gronkowski probably is playing better than any other TE in the league this year.

What a surprise...Dude, do you EVER have anything good to say about the Cowboys???? And I am not talking about this thread. I have never seen a postive thing posted by you. You take every opportunity to bash everyone from JG to JJ (although JJ deserves it, LOL....).

Seriously.....

[burmafrd]

typical mediot in this day and age. Wrong and stupid at the same time.

[adbutcher]

Every year, the media proclaims a new tightend to be the best in the game. Players like Jeremy Shockey, Chris Cooley, Vernon Davis, etc. have been labeled "best in the game" at different times. In fact it was just in the last year or two that I remember hearing one sports commentator say Jason Witten was just the third best tight-end in the NFC East behind Cooley and Celek.

In the end, all that matters is results. The media focuses on the rabbits while the hall of fame focuses on the hares. Witten may be the hare but he rabbits every so often too :D

#reality

:hammer:

[Dhragon]

McMahon is a fool. Gronkowski is a fabulous player, but to say Jason isn't "as good" as him discounts ENTIRELY his unbelievable career in terms of prodcution, reliability, leadership, and mettle.

It also is blind to the type of offenseive scheme the Patriots use game to game vs. Jasons' versatility and in-line TE prowess.

Jason isn't "perfect". And RGronk might be quicker and more talented than Jason but let's see how his numbers look 7 years into his career.

Bottom line- JWitt is a first ballot HOF player by any measurement if he walks off the field tomorrow. Is Gronkowski a HOF player yet?

Idiot.

Right. The Eagle's Celek was looking great for awhile too. Then he dived later on. Gronk has to prove he can KEEP producing at this high level before you can compare him to Jason.

[tomson75]

How is Gronkowski's blocking compared to Wittens. all I see is his receiving skills.

Non existent.

But hey...I'm a homer for thinking Witten is better, so what do I know.

Fact is, Gronkowski is "playing better", because he's thrown the ball more than any other player on the team....a team that throws the ball A LOT....and while I'm not taking away from his abilities, that doesn't make him "better" than anyone. It makes him more productive.

I watch the Patriots every week as I'm unfortunately married to a Pats fan. They have little semblance of a running game, and Gronkowski has become Brady's BFF on field far moreso than Witten is Romo's. His production is undeniable in terms of receiving stats, but he's an average blocker at best. His tenure in the league alone should preclude anyone with half a brain from making such asinine statements.....but it's Timmay. No surprise here.

[joseephuss]

Joey Graham is leading all TE's in receiving yards and TD's, he's a true young stud!

Graham has 6 TDs while Gronkowski has 10 TDs.

[joseephuss]

Non existent.

But hey...I'm a homer for thinking Witten is better, so what do I know.

Fact is, Gronkowski is "playing better", because he's thrown the ball more than any other player on the team....a team that throws the ball A LOT....and while I'm not taking away from his abilities, that doesn't make him "better" than anyone. It makes him more productive.

I watch the Patriots every week as I'm unfortunately married to a Pats fan. They have little semblance of a running game, and Gronkowski has become Brady's BFF on field far moreso than Witten is Romo's. His production is undeniable in terms of receiving stats, but he's an average blocker at best. His tenure in the league alone should preclude anyone with half a brain from making such asinine statements.....but it's Timmay. No surprise here.

I can't remember where I heard it, but at one point this season some talking head said Gronkowski was the best blocking tight end in the league. I had not heard anything about his blocking skills before that. I don't know too much about him. Seems like a good player having a really good year.

[Sitting Bull]

between being a better " athlete " and being a better " player ".. Gronkowski looks to be the second coming of Tony Gonzalez, but then again, there have been TE's who looked to be the same, only to crash and burn in a few years OR never live up to expectations.

ain't that right Kellen Winslow Jr ? what do you say Vernon Davis ?

We'll see if Gronkowski is playing at the same level in a few years. I know Jason has.

Great points. Gronk and Jimmy Graham are this year's vintage, and its not their fault someone in the media is writing a sensational article designed to stir the pot.

Witten, Gates and Gonzo are future HOF'ers for their body of work.

Bo Jackson was the greatest RB I've ever seen- for parts of a couple of seasons.

[vlad]

As far as I know Gronkowski isn't half the blocker Witten is...and that's the point. I'm not some blind homer. Is he a better WR - well he looks to be more dyanmic, faster, athletic, flexible by a mile. Better YAC? Yeah, no question. Better hands?

Doubtful, Witten has amazing hands, so if anything its a draw. Blocker....no contest.

[Risen Star]

I can't remember where I heard it, but at one point this season some talking head said Gronkowski was the best blocking tight end in the league. I had not heard anything about his blocking skills before that. I don't know too much about him. Seems like a good player having a really good year.

That's just the Witten fallback response. Go right to blocking.

Has anybody actually watched him block this year? He's solid at best. He's not dominant.

Gronkowski is also a solid blocker. I think he's the best TE in the league right now. Nobody said anything about careers. He's too young to warrant a comparison. We're talking today and this year's NFL.

Witten's in the top 5 every single year. Which is why he'll be in the HOF and ROH some day.

[Canadian BoyzFan]

I don't think that opinion is as crazy as some of you. Gronk is basically the "new" Witten with higher ceiling. He's a stud.

[Risen Star]

I don't think that opinion is as crazy as some of you. Gronk is basically the "new" Witten with higher ceiling. He's a stud.

What's scary is Aaron Hernandez is another blossoming stud at his position.

The Pats have an embarrassment of riches at the TE position.

[jimnabby]

I'm sure the fact that the Patriots have little to no ground game escaped Timmay....

I'd love to see the number of times each player has been targeted.....I'd wager that Gronkowski's targets are WAY higher.Through last week, Witten has one more target: 81 to 80. Gronkowski has a higher catch rate, a much better ypc, and twice as many TD. I don't know about their blocking, but it's not unreasonable to say that Gronkowski is better, if we're only talking about this season.

[burmafrd]

That's just the Witten fallback response. Go right to blocking.

Has anybody actually watched him block this year? He's solid at best. He's not dominant.

Gronkowski is also a solid blocker. I think he's the best TE in the league right now. Nobody said anything about careers. He's too young to warrant a comparison. We're talking today and this year's NFL.

Witten's in the top 5 every single year. Which is why he'll be in the HOF and ROH some day.

just curious; have you ever posted anything positive about any cowboy?

[Risen Star]

Through last week, Witten has one more target: 81 to 80. Gronkowski has a higher catch rate, a much better ypc, and twice as many TD. I don't know about their blocking, but it's not unreasonable to say that Gronkowski is better, if we're only talking about this season.

That was a ridiculous assumption anyway. Gronkowski has to share his targets with Hernandez. Otherwise he'd dwarf even Graham's reception numbers in New Orleans.

[Risen Star]

just curious; have you ever posted anything positive about any cowboy?

Witten's in the top 5 every single year. Which is why he'll be in the HOF and ROH some day.

Nope. Never.

[Mansta54]

just curious; have you ever posted anything positive about any cowboy?

His schtick is old, he goes against the grain regularly for attention. Dude is soooo predictable and played out..:rolleyes:

[FLcowboy]

yeah, i wasnt even going to post it, but when he said that about rob being better than witten, i took offense and posted to see what you all had to say

Ludicrous is what I say. Witten's body of work speaks for his greatness. Let Gronkowski's career match Witten's, then we'll compare.

[tomson75]

Through last week, Witten has one more target: 81 to 80. Gronkowski has a higher catch rate, a much better ypc, and twice as many TD. I don't know about their blocking, but it's not unreasonable to say that Gronkowski is better, if we're only talking about this season.

Care to share where you found those stats?

I watch these two teams every week....I find that target stat incredibly hard to believe.

...and Witten's YPC has, and always will be, higher than most fans think it is.

[JIGGYFLY]

Witten is not the blocker everyone thinks he is anymore.

If people were drafting today they would take Gronk over Witten hands down sorry but its just true.

Witten has had the better career but Gronkowski looks to be the more dynamic player and yes he does do his share of blocking.

[The Emperor]

And this is why I don't listen to The Football Show.

[Picksix]

Joey Graham is leading all TE's in receiving yards and TD's, he's a true young stud!

It's Jimmy Graham. Just sayin'. And you're right, the kid's awesome.

As for who is better than whom, people have these debates all the time. Graham, Witten, Gronkowski, they're all great. I'd take any one of them. Doesn't matter to me who's the better player. I want the better team. By the end of the the year, there's usually not much debate about that. If my team wins, you can say the other team's guy is better all you want. Doesn't matter. Vice versa if my team loses.

And I'm not gonna spend much time or energy on anything Timmy Mac says. He doesn't know any more than I do.

[Risen Star]

It's Jimmy Graham. Just sayin'. And you're right, the kid's awesome.

As for who is better than whom, people have these debates all the time. Graham, Witten, Gronkowski, they're all great. I'd take any one of them. Doesn't matter to me who's the better player. I want the better team. By the end of the the year, there's usually not much debate about that. If my team wins, you can say the other team's guy is better all you want. Doesn't matter. Vice versa if my team loses.

And I'm not gonna spend much time or energy on anything Timmy Mac says. He doesn't know any more than I do.

And that's why Witten's going straight to the HOF and ROH when he hangs it up. Because over his entire career he was always in the mix of who the best TE in football was or is.

All I think MacMahon is saying is that this year no TE is playing better than Gronkowski. Unfortunately for Timmy, you can't talk honestly without offending a whole bunch of women in the fan base.

[ChldsPlay]

Through last week, Witten has one more target: 81 to 80. Gronkowski has a higher catch rate, a much better ypc, and twice as many TD. I don't know about their blocking, but it's not unreasonable to say that Gronkowski is better, if we're only talking about this season.

According to ESPN, Gronkowski only has 69 Targets and Witten was at 79 (I'm not sure if this includes Thanksgiving). Graham is much higher than both at 94.

[dadymat]

Not saying the following because of this post, but has Tim McMahon ever written a quality article? You know, along the lines of a Bob Sturm or that kid that used to write for the DMN that went to the NFL network (I think Albert Ross or something?)...I swear, the opportunity these guys have, and the quality they put out compared to people like Vela or folks on this site is mind boggling.

He may have, I just haven't seen anything. I remember he used to try to be a funny guy or something...good grief.

NO.....he also has never written a positive Cowboys article...always a dig in there somewhere....

Gronkowski may turn out to be better than Witten only time will telll...but Timmy is a putz either way

[tyke1doe]

Doesn't saying Witten is a Hall of Famer but Gronkowski is better automatically tell you MacMahon is comparing this year compared to overall careers? :confused:

This year, Gronkowski is the better tight end. Witten's elusiveness is an issue. He has slow feet. If he has a six steps on you, he can take it the distance, as he showed in the Skins game. But he has some of the slowest feet among the top tier tight ends.

Still, he's a great one. I don't know if he gets in the Hall, though. It's hard to get in as a tight end as it is. I don't know if stats get him in, and I fear he may suffer the Cowboy burden of not having a Super Bowl ring. I just think Cowboys are judged a bit differently because we've been to so many Super Bowls and have won them. Witten on a team like the Cleveland Browns gets in the Hall, hands down. Witten on a team like the Cowboys. Uh, I'm not sure.

[ejthedj]

Doesn't saying Witten is a Hall of Famer but Gronkowski is better automatically tell you MacMahon is comparing this year compared to overall careers? :confused:

This year, Gronkowski is the better tight end. Witten's elusiveness is an issue. He has slow feet. If he has a six steps on you, he can take it the distance, as he showed in the Skins game. But he has some of the slowest feet among the top tier tight ends.

Still, he's a great one. I don't know if he gets in the Hall, though. It's hard to get in as a tight end as it is. I don't know if stats get him in, and I fear he may suffer the Cowboy burden of not having a Super Bowl ring. I just think Cowboys are judged a bit differently because we've been to so many Super Bowls and have won them. Witten on a team like the Cleveland Browns gets in the Hall, hands down. Witten on a team like the Cowboys. Uh, I'm not sure.

Ridiculous. Witten is in already. He's in the top 3 all time for TE stats. Totally stupid post. Just like Timmy's claim... Just dumb. Nobody doublres Gronkowski like they do Witten. When they do, then we can talk

[rocyaice]

I'm a Cowboys homer like the next guy but let's be honest with ourselves here. Gronkowski and Jimmy Graham are having GREAT years this year. Better than Witten. Its not a slight to Witten. Excluding age I wouldn't trade either for Witten. But Gronkowski has been GREAT.

[Hoofbite]

ESPN Dallas Live: Cowboys Talk
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/dallas/play?id=7271640
Tim MacMahon says Cowboys TE Jason Witten is a Hall of Famer, but not as good as New England's Rob Gronkowski.

Note:I totally disagree with this, lets see how long gronkowski plays and if he keeps his nose clean, remember rob got into some trouble with the patriot family awhile back, eventually that kind of behavior gets you into trouble and your career breaks down early.

Because he posed for picture with a nude model or something stupid like that.

I don't think you have to legitimately worry about "keeping his nose clean" for something like that.

As far as Rob being better than Witten, I think it's debatable but I would go with Witten because of his history and the fact that he blocks as much as any TE. Not sure about Rob but his numbers are pretty big for a guy who would have a large role blocking.

[Hoofbite]

Jason Witten has produced with QBs who's names hardly anyone can remember.

He's had Romo for a while now but until Romo came into the league, he had nothing in terms of QBs.

If Witten retired today, I think he'd be a HOFer.

Unless Gronk is extremely fortunate, he'll have his opportunity to produce with dud QBs here after a few years.

[Hoofbite]

And to anyone who says that Gronk is playing great this season.....he had 10 TDs last year.

He's playing great but he'll need to keep it up for a long while.

[Risen Star]

And to anyone who says that Gronk is playing great this season.....he had 10 TDs last year.

He's playing great but he'll need to keep it up for a long while.

But he doesn't need to do it for a long time to be better this year. Which is what I think MacMahon was saying.

[Frozen700]

Gronkowski is a much better redzone threat, but that's it.

Finley is the only TE i would take over witten

[tyke1doe]

Ridiculous. Witten is in already. He's in the top 3 all time for TE stats. Totally stupid post. Just like Timmy's claim... Just dumb. Nobody doublres Gronkowski like they do Witten. When they do, then we can talk

Witten is already in the Hall of Fame? :confused: I'm sorry, I must have missed his induction speech/ceremony. Can you provide a youtube link for me please? ;)

Second, as for your "double team" comment, uh ...


FOXBORO — At 6-foot-6, 265 pounds, Rob Gronkowski is hard to miss. The Patriots [team stats] tight end has been drawing a crowd.

In the Patriots 34-3 win over the Chiefs on Monday, the second-year star was double-teamed, jammed at the line, assigned over-the-top coverage, and harassed by hybrid defensive backs Jalil Brown and Donald Washington. The goal of Kansas City defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel appeared to be to disrupt Gronkowski’s timing and keep one of quarterback Tom Brady [stats]’s more secure weapons guessing.

For most of the 60 minutes, it worked better for the Chiefs than for most. How Gronkowski ended up with four catches for 96 yards and two crucial touchdowns is a testament to play-calling, offensive creativity and Gronkowski’s ability to make plays after the catch.


Can we talk now? :laugh1:

[tyke1doe]

But he doesn't need to do it for a long time to be better this year. Which is what I think MacMahon was saying.

It's pretty clear what MacMahon is saying. He even says that Witten is likely headed to the Hall of Fame, which should clue anyone not wearing homer glasses that he's not comparing their careers. I doubt anyone would say Gronkowski is headed for the Hall of Fame.

But, of course, many Cowboys fans are ssssooo sensitive and looking to be offended. So they'll see a statement that is put in context, extract it from context and then get all bent out of shape because someone dares say that Gronkowski is a better tight end than Witten. I mean, LT isn't as good as Adrian Peterson, but no one with any sense would interpret that to mean AP has had a better career than LT to this point.

CowboysZone = Overreaction Central.

[JBell523]

It's pretty clear what MacMahon is saying. He even says that Witten is likely headed to the Hall of Fame, which should clue anyone not wearing homer glasses that he's not comparing their careers. I doubt anyone would say Gronkowski is headed for the Hall of Fame.

But, of course, many Cowboys fans are ssssooo sensitive and looking to be offended. So they'll see a statement that is put in context, extract it from context and then get all bent out of shape because someone dares say that Gronkowski is a better tight end than Witten. I mean, LT isn't as good as Adrian Peterson, but no one with any sense would interpret that to mean AP has had a better career than LT to this point.

CowboysZone = Overreaction Central.
Yep. Don't you dare say anyone is better than <insert Cowboys player here>

[Reality]

FOXBORO — At 6-foot-6, 265 pounds, Rob Gronkowski is hard to miss. The Patriots [team stats] tight end has been drawing a crowd.

In the Patriots 34-3 win over the Chiefs on Monday, the second-year star was double-teamed, jammed at the line, assigned over-the-top coverage, and harassed by hybrid defensive backs Jalil Brown and Donald Washington. The goal of Kansas City defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel appeared to be to disrupt Gronkowski’s timing and keep one of quarterback Tom Brady [stats]’s more secure weapons guessing.

For most of the 60 minutes, it worked better for the Chiefs than for most. How Gronkowski ended up with four catches for 96 yards and two crucial touchdowns is a testament to play-calling, offensive creativity and Gronkowski’s ability to make plays after the catch.


I haven't been reading this this thread so I have no idea which side people are on nor do I care but I just wanted to point out that quoting a Boston news source about a Boston team is like asking a mother if she's proud of her son.

#reality

[joseephuss]

Finley is the only TE i would take over witten

Really? I wouldn't. Finley is more of a big receiver than a tight end. He doesn't block much if at all. He rarely even lines up in the traditional tight end position. He isn't having a big year. He has 36 receptions. The offensive scheme would need to change significantly to fit Finley whereas Gates or Gronkowski and even Davis would fit in the current Cowboys system.

[dallasdave]

Jason is #1

[Hoofbite]

But he doesn't need to do it for a long time to be better this year. Which is what I think MacMahon was saying.

Then McMahon is an idiot.

Why not fragment things down further into a weekly basis?

Gronk > Witten for week 1!!!!!

I wouldn't stop there though, I'd go by quarter and post tweet updates after every quarter.

You have one guy who's played for an extended period at a high level and a guy who's been on the scene for only 2 years. It's a horrible comparison. It'd be like comparing a first year stud LB to Ray Lewis based only on this year.

[CATCH17]

Gronkowski is the man. But let's tap the breaks before we say he is better than a future HOF.

[tyke1doe]

I haven't been reading this this thread so I have no idea which side people are on nor do I care but I just wanted to point out that quoting a Boston news source about a Boston team is like asking a mother if she's proud of her son.

#reality

Kind of like asking a Cowboys fan to be objective about Cowboys players, especially ones they've placed in the Hall of Fame before they've actually been nominated. ;)

[Reality]

Kind of like asking a Cowboys fan to be objective about Cowboys players, especially ones they've placed in the Hall of Fame before they've actually been nominated. ;)

Indeed :D

#reality

[tyke1doe]

As for sourcing ... how about this comment from



Week 6 vs DAL - Brady primarily looked for Wes Welker on drag routes and, in the likely event that Welker was covered, he found whichever of his two tight ends was in single-coverage outside of the hash marks. Brady's best throw of the day came on the game-winning touchdown. On the play, Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski were both lined up on the left side. The Cowboys double-teamed Gronkowski. Hernandez cut to the back middle of the end zone, and with Danny Woodhead releasing from the backfield to the front middle of the end zone, Hernandez was left in single coverage. Brady rifled a throw away from the outside defender which Hernandez hauled in for the game's deciding points.

Yep, the Cowboys thought so poorly of Gronkowski, they only covered him with one player. :laugh2:

Or, and this source ...

Opposing defenses have taken notice of this two-headed attack.

In New England’s 34-3 win over Kansas City Monday night, the Chiefs often double-teamed both receivers to varying success. Welker was held without a catch until garbage time, while Gronkowski made four receptions for 96 yards.

“That really has to get me to throw the ball to the other guys, like Chad (Ochocinco), who was open (against the Chiefs), Deion (Branch) was open, Aaron (Hernandez) was open, the running backs were open at times,” Brady said. “It’s just about getting those guys the ball so not all the coverage goes to Wes and Gronk.”


I think it's pretty clear to those who observe the Patriots that Gronkowski gets double teamed. You would think a poster would research a matter before he declared someone else's information is stupid. :laugh2:

[tyke1doe]

Then McMahon is an idiot.

Why not fragment things down further into a weekly basis?

Gronk > Witten for week 1!!!!!

I wouldn't stop there though, I'd go by quarter and post tweet updates after every quarter.

You have one guy who's played for an extended period at a high level and a guy who's been on the scene for only 2 years. It's a horrible comparison. It'd be like comparing a first year stud LB to Ray Lewis based only on this year.

This is interesting considering ...

1.) Gronkowski is a two-year veteran, enough time for people to assess his abilities, especially after becoming the second tight end in history to catch 10 touchdown passes in his first two seasons, and

2.) Many Cowboys fans here have declared Dez Bryant better than several top receivers, most recently Calvin Johnson.

We do it all the time. Just look at what Cowboys fans are saying about Sean Lee in comparison to Brady James and Keith Brookings (should we refrain from saying Sean Lee is better than Brookings since we shouldn't make comparisons between a young player and one who has a career of playing behind him), Tyron Smith, etc. We all tend to jump to conclusions based on the potential of a player.

Should we not assess the current performance of a player in fear of offending the career of a great player on the decline? I guess we shouldn't call Adrian Peterson the best running back in the game or say LT isn't as good as AP because AP hasn't played as long as LT?

That's just not practical. We are in a "What have you done for me lately" culture, particularly as it relates to football.

But I guess when it's a non-Cowboy player being compared to a Cowboy great, we should slow down and make the comparisons by careers. Heh. :)

[DFWJC]

If he's talking just about this year as a receiver, then yeah he's right. If he's talking long term, then it's way too early to think about that.
Yeah. Witten is having another great season but Gronks and Jimmy Graham's have been amazing.

Tim is just being a jerk (again) though.
Like you said, if he is saying that someone is having a better season, that's not the same as saying that person is the better player. It's way too early to declare Gronkowski the better player.

[tyke1doe]

Yeah. Witten is having another great season but Gronks and Jimmy Graham's have been amazing.

Tim is just being a jerk (again) though.
Like you said, if he is saying that someone is having a better season, that's not the same as saying that person is the better player. It's way too early to declare Gronkowski the better player.

Out of curosity, at what point can you say one player is a better player than another?

Two year? Three years? Five years?

I'm trying to understand the "standard" here because I often read Cowboys fans applying the "better" and "best" tag to Dez Bryant when compared to other receivers who've been in the league longer.

But if I'm reading people here correctly, we can't say that Dez is a "better player" than Wes Welker, Calvin Johnson, Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson, Hakeem Nicks, Jordan Nelson, Roddy White, Steve Smith (Panthers), Anquan Boldin, etc.

Are we wrong to say Dez is a "better player" than any of those wide receivers because he's only been in the league for two years? Are Cowboys fans who believe so being "jerks" when they declare such things? :confused:

[DFWJC]

Out of curosity, at what point can you say one player is a better player than another?

Two year? Three years? Five years?

I'm trying to understand the "standard" here because I often read Cowboys fans applying the "better" and "best" tag to Dez Bryant when compared to other receivers who've been in the league longer.

But if I'm reading people here correctly, we can't say that Dez is a "better player" than Wes Welker, Calvin Johnson, Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson, Hakeem Nicks, Jordan Nelson, Roddy White, Steve Smith (Panthers), Anquan Boldin, etc.

Are we wrong to say Dez is a "better player" than any of those wide receivers because he's only been in the league for two years? Are Cowboys fans who believe so being "jerks" when they declare such things? :confused:
Good question. Legit.

BTW, I would not say Dez is elite at this stage in his career. So I do not fall into that category. Potentially elite, yes. Currently elite...no. No possible way I would put him up there with Cavin. But that's just me.

As for Witten and Gronk. I suspect that if you asked all 32 teams who they would take right now, that given the age and potential going forward, most (by far) would take Gronkowski (and Graham, for that matter) over our man Witten. I know I would if i removed by Cowboy bias glasses..

[tyke1doe]

Good question. Legit.

BTW, I would not say Dez is elite at this stage in his career. So I do not fall into that category. Potentially elite, yes. Currently elite...no. No possible way I would put him up there with Cavin. But that's just me.

As for Witten and Gronk. I suspect that if you asked all 32 teams who they would take right now, that given the age and potential going forward, most (by far) would take Gronkowski (and Graham, for that matter) over our man Witten. I know I would if i removed by Cowboy bias glasses..

That's a fair answer.

Thanks. :)

[tomson75]

Yep. Don't you dare say anyone is better than <insert Cowboys player here>

:rolleyes:

Give me a friggin' break.

McMahon is being a deliberate tool.

If he had simply said that Gronkowski is having a great year AGAIN. Which he is....they would be no cause for reaction. That's not what Timmay wants though...he wants to be a ****bag on purpose.

No one here is trying to take away from Gronkowski here. He's having an undeniably great season, and yes, it's better than Witten's. That doesn't mean he's the better football player.

....but to blatantly detract from Witten by this comparison, which is stupid on many levels, is simply too much.

Witten is LIKELY a future HOF'er, and a Dallas Cowboy favorite.....it's not out of bounds for Cowboys fans to have problems with a hack like Timmay stirring the pot with crap like this.

This is completely unnecessary and transparent. Sorry you can't see it.

[tomson75]

Out of curosity, at what point can you say one player is a better player than another?

Two year? Three years? Five years?

I'm trying to understand the "standard" here because I often read Cowboys fans applying the "better" and "best" tag to Dez Bryant when compared to other receivers who've been in the league longer.

But if I'm reading people here correctly, we can't say that Dez is a "better player" than Wes Welker, Calvin Johnson, Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson, Hakeem Nicks, Jordan Nelson, Roddy White, Steve Smith (Panthers), Anquan Boldin, etc.

Are we wrong to say Dez is a "better player" than any of those wide receivers because he's only been in the league for two years? Are Cowboys fans who believe so being "jerks" when they declare such things? :confused:

There is an obvious difference between "playing better" and being a "better player".

Dez hasn't proven to be a better player than any of those on that list. He has shown the potential to play better than some of them....and at the point that he starts to, you can say he's "playing better". After their bodies of work or careers accomplishments become more clear....then you can say with more certainty if one player is the "better player".

...but for a so-called "professional" to go out of his way to call out a player like Witten as an example of how a young player is balling? Yeah....that's garbage. That's Timmay for you.

[tyke1doe]

There is an obvious difference between "playing better" and being a "better player".

Dez hasn't proven to be a better player than any of those on that list. He has shown the potential to play better than some of them....and at the point that he starts to, you can say he's "playing better". After their bodies of work or careers accomplishments become more clear....then you can say with more certainty if one player is the "better player".

...but for a so-called "professional" to go out of his way to call out a player like Witten as an example of how a young player is balling? Yeah....that's garbage. That's Timmay for you.

I'll admit I didn't hear the MacMahon comment in its context. I'm just reading the headline provided here. Maybe MacMahon compared him to Witten because someone asked him how does Gronkowski compare with Witten, or maybe he's referencing Witten because Mac covers the Cowboys.

You can probably help me out with this because I didn't hear the comment and maybe you did.

I think everyone agrees that based on career Witten is head and shoulders above Gronk. PERIOD. But I think that goes without saying so the comparison becomes based on the two years Gronk has played and how Witten has played in those same two years.

I guess I'm just not bothered that much by his comment. I know Witten's worth to the league and to the Cowboys. That doesn't get diminished because of Mac's statement.

[BraveHeartFan]

This year, as a receiving threat, yeah I'd say he's playing better than Witten and this year you could say he's better.

Overall?

Please. It's not even close and it's far to early in Rob's career to even make such a stupid comparison.

[cowboys2233]

Gronkowski probably is playing better than any other TE in the league this year.

And? I'm not sure what the point is -- the team is currently on a four-game winning streak, Jason Witten has been a big part of that, but this guy chooses to point out that he thinks another TE is playing better? This guy is probably the quintessential buzz-kill at a party. He's the guy who points out that only 29 candles were lit on on a cake for someone's 30th birthday party. Yippee, Captain Irrelevant. Look how smart you are.

[ejthedj]

Witten is already in the Hall of Fame? :confused: I'm sorry, I must have missed his induction speech/ceremony. Can you provide a youtube link for me please? ;)

Second, as for your "double team" comment, uh ...



Can we talk now? :laugh1:

Yes, he is in already. Best TE in Cowboys history and a clutch, likeable guy. He's in.

And that Gronkowski post? That is standard Defense against the Cowboys. Teams have been doing this for years, heck I think Bellicheck started it back in the 2007 game. Take away Witten with double teams and make Romo go somewhere else. What do you think happened against Washington, against Buffalo, against Miami. Heck the Eagles even put Aso on him.

So what you have proven is that Gronkowski is starting to become Witten-like. Good post. Talk me about it again in 7 years. You may be right then. You aren't now

[tyke1doe]

Yes, he is in already. Best TE in Cowboys history and a clutch, likeable guy. He's in.

We're not talking about what you hope. We're talking facts, remember? You know what those are don't you? Empirical information one offers to support one's arguments compared to non-substantive or substantiated thoughts. ;)


And that Gronkowski post? That is standard Defense against the Cowboys. Teams have been doing this for years, heck I think Bellicheck started it back in the 2007 game. Take away Witten with double teams and make Romo go somewhere else. What do you think happened against Washington, against Buffalo, against Miami. Heck the Eagles even put Aso on him.

What? :huh:

You said Gronkowski is never double teamed. I gave you posts that indicate that the Cowboys and the Chiefs both doubled teamed him. So your retort is to talk around my point?

Yes, I understand how ego-deflating saying, "I (ejthedj) was wrong," is.

So what you have proven is that Gronkowski is starting to become Witten-like. Good post. Talk me about it again in 7 years. You may be right then. You aren't now

Ah, moving the bar, I see. :lmao2:

You said come talk to you when Gronk gets double teamed like Witten does. I showed you that he is. So now you move the bar. But in moving the bar, you're not saying anything I haven't said. I've already acknowledged that career-wise Witten is better than Gronkowski. But that's like saying career-wise LT is better than Adrian Peterson. Duh.

Next time you want to call a post stupid make sure you've done enough research to not make yourself and your own post look stupid by comparison, son.

That's information I dispense for free. Next time, I'll have to charge you. :)