Okay, You're Bill Polian of the Colts

[Hostile]

Manning is coming back and will be 100%.

What is your bottom line asking price on Andrew Luck?

[basstapp]

I would take 2 (1st round picks) + 2 (second round picks) + a 3rd rounder.

If it is too high I walk away with one of the best qb prospects since manning :)

[visionary]

if bill polian is as smart as people think he goes with luck all the way

trade or cut manning

[SkinsHokieFan]

He won't get anything more then the Eli trade. This year's 1st, this year's 3rd, next year 1st and 5th

In particular with RG3 and Barkley coming out, along with the fact that everyone will know they cannot have both Luck and Manning on the same roster. And Manning in untradeable with his bonus.

We'll see if they have the balls to cut Peyton

[Hostile]

I would take 2 (1st round picks) + 2 (second round picks) + a 3rd rounder.

If it is too high I walk away with one of the best qb prospects since manning :)
This is close to where I am. First of all I would not trade out of the top 5. I would want three 1sts and this year's 2nd.

[SkinsHokieFan]

This is close to where I am. First of all I would not trade out of the top 5. I would want three 1sts and this year's 2nd.

Now that we know what Indy would want, who would actually be able to do this

The Redskins, if things stay as they are today, will be pick 4, the highest of the QB depserate teams

Cleveland is at 8 and has that 2nd first round pick from ATL as well

Miami is at 7

Is Indy willing to trade down to 8th and potentially miss out on an impact player who could help Peyton immediately?

[super8]

a Ditka trade - a Hershel Trase - A Julio Jones trade

but I keep them both Luck an Manning

I mean Manning has to much to know what to with already - I talk about restructure to him - he should know his Career is over get out now while you can still move that head

so he can soak in what he can of Manning's mind

[BraveHeartFan]

It would have to be a stupid, stupid, stupid type deal from a team. I'm talking something like the Walker trade or what Ditka gave up for Williams. Something just incredibly stupid before I'd do anything other than draft Luck.

[SkinsHokieFan]

a Ditka trade - a Hershel Trase - A Julio Jones trade

but I keep them both Luck an Manning

I mean Manning has to much to know what to with already - I talk about restructure to him - he should know his Career is over get out now while you can still move that head

so he can soak in what he can of Manning's mind

Why would Peyton Manning re-structure at all?

And how would you tell a 100 percent healthy Peyton "we are gonna stick you behind an 0-16 team and not use our biggest asset to improve this team"

[super8]

Why would Peyton Manning re-structure at all?

And how would you tell a 100 percent healthy Peyton "we are gonna stick you behind an 0-16 team and not use our biggest asset to improve this team"

so he healthy ????????? ok mr Doctor

Sep 8, 2011 - Indianapolis Colts (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/indianapolis-colts) QB Peyton Manning had a third surgery (http://www.sbnation.com/2011/9/8/2412975/peyton-manning-surgery-colts-season) to repair a herniated disc in his neck on Thursday,

One report speculates Manning could return to action in as few as 2-3 months after today's anterior cervical fusion procedure, but it is clear that patients who have undergone similar procedures require a wide range of recovery times depending on the extent of the injury, the individual's overall health, and the surgical approach itself.

In March, 2010, Manning underwent his first surgery to relieve pain in his throwing arm that was related to pressure from a bulging (herniated) disc being applied to nerves in his cervical spine

However, during the early offseason Manning's pain returned. An MRI of the neck again revealed a herniated disc, prompting a second neck surgery (also by Dr. Fessler) in May of this year. Because it was his second procedure, Manning was expected to require 6-8 weeks of rest and rehabilitation

It is clear, though, that the recovery from this second procedure did not go according to plan, prompting Thursday's reported surgery

he got a gazillons dollars already

why WOULD A GUY AS SMART AS Manning risk his overall health

I try a restcucture his deal and let Luck soaj up all he can

[SkinsHokieFan]

so he healthy ????????? ok mr Doctor

Sep 8, 2011 - Indianapolis Colts (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/indianapolis-colts) QB Peyton Manning had a third surgery (http://www.sbnation.com/2011/9/8/2412975/peyton-manning-surgery-colts-season) to repair a herniated disc in his neck on Thursday,

One report speculates Manning could return to action in as few as 2-3 months after today's anterior cervical fusion procedure, but it is clear that patients who have undergone similar procedures require a wide range of recovery times depending on the extent of the injury, the individual's overall health, and the surgical approach itself.

In March, 2010, Manning underwent his first surgery to relieve pain in his throwing arm that was related to pressure from a bulging (herniated) disc being applied to nerves in his cervical spine

However, during the early offseason Manning's pain returned. An MRI of the neck again revealed a herniated disc, prompting a second neck surgery (also by Dr. Fessler) in May of this year. Because it was his second procedure, Manning was expected to require 6-8 weeks of rest and rehabilitation

It is clear, though, that the recovery from this second procedure did not go according to plan, prompting Thursday's reported surgery

he got a gazillons dollars already

why WOULD A GUY AS SMART AS Manning risk his overall health

I try a restcucture his deal and let Luck soaj up all he can


From December 3rd

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/colts/story/2011-12-14/peyton-manning-throws/51926116/1

On Dec. 1, Manning's doctor issued a statement saying the fusion had healed firmly and Manning could increase the intensity of his workouts.
That was the best news the Colts (0-13) have had in this miserable season. On Dec. 2, Manning acknowledged that additional throwing would be the next step in his recovery. Team officials have kept Manning on the active roster, hoping he could return to practice before the Jan. 1 season finale at Jacksonville.

How much more can Manning now do?

"Once he's fused, he's stable to play," said Anders Cohen, chief of neurosurgery and spine surgery at the Brooklyn Hospital Center who did not treat Manning. Asked how long it would take Manning to regain the strength in his throwing arm, Cohen said: "I would suspect it probably happened while the bone was knitting."

Hos' assumption is Manning is 100% healthy. So your entire little post there is moot.

The Colts owe Manning a 28 million dollar bonus 5 days before the current league year ends, so the only option is cut him or give him the bonus.

A restructure would go like this

Polian: "Hey Peyton, we'd like you to re-do your deal so you get less money right now, and WE get to choose which team you go to instead of you making the choice. Oh by the way, we also get to take key resources from that team as compensation for you. How does that sound Peyton?"

Peyton: "Gee golly, where do I sign up for that deal? You mean instead of me having leverage, I give it all to you for no reason at all?"

[super8]

From December 3rd

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/colts/story/2011-12-14/peyton-manning-throws/51926116/1



Hos' assumption is Manning is 100% healthy. So your entire little post there is moot.

The Colts owe Manning a 28 million dollar bonus 5 days before the current league year ends, so the only option is cut him or give him the bonus.

A restructure would go like this

Polian: "Hey Peyton, we'd like you to re-do your deal so you get less money right now, and WE get to choose which team you go to instead of you making the choice. Oh by the way, we also get to take key resources from that team as compensation for you. How does that sound Peyton?"

Peyton: "Gee golly, where do I sign up for that deal? You mean instead of me having leverage, I give it all to you for no reason at all?"


Hos' assumption is Manning is 100% healthy.

that hos's assumption

no wonder your a fan of the skins :lmao:

sorry dude am not going toi agrue

I stated what I would do

[SkinsHokieFan]

Hos' assumption is Manning is 100% healthy.

that hos's assumption

no wonder your a fan of the skins :lmao:

Uh, thats the whole point of this thread.

Its a hypothetical.

hy·po·thet·i·cal   [hahy-puh-thet-i-kuhl] Show IPA
adjective Also, hy·po·thet·ic ( for defs. 1–4 ) .
1.
assumed by hypothesis; supposed: a hypothetical case.
2.
of, pertaining to, involving, or characterized by hypothesis: hypothetical reasoning.
3.
given to making hypotheses.
4.
Logic .
a.
(of a proposition) highly conjectural; not well supported by available evidence.
b.
(of a proposition or syllogism) conditional.

From Hos' OP

Manning is coming back and will be 100%.

What is your bottom line asking price on Andrew Luck?

Reading comprehension my friend

[Wolfpack]

I don't think they pass on Luck. Manning is cooked and extra draft picks would never get to deliver their real value until Manning was gone.

If they did choose too, I think they would want 3 (1)s plus want ever else they could get.

[burmafrd]

they will need to rebuild their O line; it was put together for Mannings particular talents and no one else; as has been made clear this season. So unless Luck can play exactly like Manning that has to be done; and the D needs a lot of help as well. No way can you trade Manning due to his contract and health issues. They really are in a bind.

So I would take Luck and then use the rest of the draft to fill what holes you can; and then start manning next year while Luck watches and learns. All the while doing everything you can to fix the holes.

No way you really can let Luck go; who knows how long Manning has?

[CowboyMike]

Nothing. You don't pass up the opportunity to draft a quarterback like that. You keep both guys for a year or two, then Peyton passes the torch.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Again, how do you justify a) not playing the number 1 overall pick for 2 years of a 4 year contract and b) tell Peyton "well, we aren't going to use the biggest asset we have to improve this team so you get another great shot. Now go win 10 games with an 0-16 squad"

The last thing that will happen is both Manning and Luck on that roster. In fact, that is the one thing logical people can rule out

[yimyammer]

If he is as good as advertised and you have a chance to string together 25 (+?) straight years of great QB play, I don't think there is a price someone can pay me, especially since there is a rookie salary cap that mitigates the risk.

[67CowboysFan]

a Ditka trade - a Hershel Trase - A Julio Jones trade

but I keep them both Luck an Manning

I mean Manning has to much to know what to with already - I talk about restructure to him - he should know his Career is over get out now while you can still move that head

so he can soak in what he can of Manning's mind
I think I'd go ahead and draft Luck too. Let him be the understudy for a year or so. He can hit the field ready to rock that way.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I think I'd go ahead and draft Luck too. Let him be the understudy for a year or so. He can hit the field ready to rock that way.

So you are telling Peyton Manning, after paying him 28 million dollars, "good luck with that 0-16 team. Make sure Andrew can play in 2 years"

And is Luck going to spend half his rookie deal on the bench? The Colts then have 2 years to figure out what type of contract to offer him on his 2nd contract?

[zrinkill]

I would take Luck ...... how long is Manning gonna play?

[SkinsHokieFan]

I would take Luck ...... how long is Manning gonna play?

When neck fusion takes, it generally makes the area stronger then it was prior to the surgery.

If Manning was playing with neck pain since 2006, and now got to relax a year and recover from any lingering bumps and bruises, he could play another 4 years until the age of 40

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2011/12/1/2604577/peyton-manning-update-doctor-says-neck-fusion-has-achieved-firm

X-ray and CT examination of the surgical area shows that the fusion performed in September has achieved firm fixation," said Dr. Robert Watkins. "Peyton will now be allowed to increase the intensity and breadth of his workouts as tolerated. There remains every indication that his recovery will continue. There still is no timetable for Peyton’s return to practice, which is one of many steps in his expected return to game action. He is working hard on a rehabilitation program outlined in conjunction with myself, Erin Barill and Peyton. His response to this plan in the future will dictate his return date.

[Hoofbite]

I don't trade at all.

No reason to. 1st overall pick money is so ridiculous cheap at this point that it isn't even funny.

I'd take Luck, sit him behind Manning for a couple seasons and watch the guy hit the ground running when you start him in a few years.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I don't trade at all.

No reason to. 1st overall pick money is so ridiculous cheap at this point that it isn't even funny.

I'd take Luck, sit him behind Manning for a couple seasons and watch the guy hit the ground running when you start him in a few years.

What is the point of having both on the roster and essentially not giving your team a chance to evaluate Luck and see what he is worth in the 2nd contract? (seeing rookie deals are now 4 years)

This isn't the 24th pick in the draft, ala Rodgers. This is the number 1 overall pick

[zrinkill]

I am sorry .... but I am not gonna listen to a redskin fan about QB's

[Risen Star]

I'm drafting and keeping Luck if I'm making the call.

[Hoofbite]

What is the point of having both on the roster and essentially not giving your team a chance to evaluate Luck and see what he is worth in the 2nd contract? (seeing rookie deals are now 4 years)

This isn't the 24th pick in the draft, ala Rodgers. This is the number 1 overall pick

The point is, he's the surest QB to come out in how long?

If you hit on him and what people are saying about him is right, you've got a franchise QB for 10+ years.

You don't think waiting a season or two is worth that?

[SkinsHokieFan]

The point is, he's the surest QB to come out in how long?

If you hit on him and what people are saying about him is right, you've got a franchise QB for 10+ years.

You don't think waiting a season or two is worth that?

Why is Andrew Luck, who by all accounts is ready to go on day 1, going to wait a season or 2.

And if you pay out that 28 million dollar bonus (remember Peyton's contract is essentially 1 year + a 4 year option) you are going to expect to have Manning for several years, not just one.

The big thing is you do a major disservice to both. Luck, like Newton and Dalton, is pretty much ready to go. Having him sit behind Manning is a major disservice to both of them as you are essentially in the process of pushing Manning out.

And again, if you have Luck sitting for 2 years, how does either side (Luck/Colts) determine his value at the end of a 4 year rookie deal?


Remember, this is the number 1 overall pick you are dealing with, not the 24th overall with Rodgers


And meanwhile youre paying Manning a buttload of money to QB a lousy team, Luck is getting angry watching 2nd round picks from this year's draft and players drafted a year later are making headlines while he is still on the bench and Manning is ticked off because you haven't gotten him help and the franchise is dealing with a 24/7 talk radio ****storm calling for Luck to play.

And then you'll still take a big cap hit when you get rid of Manning (22 mil if a "couple of seasons" is 2)

[Hoofbite]

Why is Andrew Luck, who by all accounts is ready to go on day 1, going to wait a season or 2.

And if you pay out that 28 million dollar bonus (remember Peyton's contract is essentially 1 year + a 4 year option) you are going to expect to have Manning for several years, not just one.

The big thing is you do a major disservice to both. Luck, like Newton and Dalton, is pretty much ready to go. Having him sit behind Manning is a major disservice to both of them as you are essentially in the process of pushing Manning out.

And again, if you have Luck sitting for 2 years, how does either side (Luck/Colts) determine his value at the end of a 4 year rookie deal?


Remember, this is the number 1 overall pick you are dealing with, not the 24th overall with Rodgers

A disservices to Luck?

Last time I checked, teams were in the business of getting better not considering a player's feelings when prepping to draft him.

Dalton and Newton were forced into playing early, regardless of how well they performed. If given the option to sit behind a HOF QB, no coach in the league would force them into action early.

And if he only sat for 2 years, you could determine his value based on 4 years of practice and 2 years of starting. Or, I guess if they were that confused to not be able to determine his value (which is a stupid reason not to pick a guy in the first place because you cross that bridge when you get there, not when you first sign your rookie contract) they could franchise him or option for that 5th year.

It's really not as complicated as you'd like to make it.

And again I ask. Is waiting 2-3 years worth having a franchise QB for 10+ years?.....meanwhile you have a HOF QB starting and tutoring your soon-to-be franchise QB.

[SkinsHokieFan]

A disservices to Luck?

Last time I checked, teams were in the business of getting better not considering a player's feelings when prepping to draft him.

Dalton and Newton were forced into playing early, regardless of how well they performed. If given the option to sit behind a HOF QB, no coach in the league would force them into action early.

And if he only sat for 2 years, you could determine his value based on 4 years of practice and 2 years of starting. Or, I guess if they were that confused to not be able to determine his value (which is a stupid reason not to pick a guy in the first place because you cross that bridge when you get there, not when you first sign your rookie contract) they could franchise him or option for that 5th year.

It's really not as complicated as you'd like to make it.

And again I ask. Is waiting 2-3 years worth having a franchise QB for 10+ years?.....meanwhile you have a HOF QB starting and tutoring your soon-to-be franchise QB.

Just edited my previous post, I'll put it here

And meanwhile youre paying Manning a buttload of money to QB a lousy team (since you didn't use your number 1 pick to give Manning any help), Luck is getting angry watching 2nd round picks from this year's draft and players drafted a year later are making headlines while he is still on the bench and Manning is ticked off because you haven't gotten him help and the franchise is dealing with a 24/7 talk radio ****storm calling for Luck to play. And then you'll still take a big cap hit when you get rid of Manning (22 mil if a "couple of seasons" is 2)

The more one talks about it the more asinine this idea is to have Luck sit behind a healthy Manning for a "couple of seasons"

[Hoofbite]

Just edited my previous post, I'll put it here

And meanwhile youre paying Manning a buttload of money to QB a lousy team (since you didn't use your number 1 pick to give Manning any help), Luck is getting angry watching 2nd round picks from this year's draft and players drafted a year later are making headlines while he is still on the bench and Manning is ticked off because you haven't gotten him help and the franchise is dealing with a 24/7 talk radio ****storm calling for Luck to play. And then you'll still take a big cap hit when you get rid of Manning (22 mil if a "couple of seasons" is 2)

The more one talks about it the more asinine this idea is to have Luck sit behind a healthy Manning for a "couple of seasons"

You're making hypotheticals as a reason to go against the consensus best QB in over a decade.

Radio? Please, like GMs actually care what the radio hosts say.

And as far as the money issue goes, it'd be an issue if teams already used all their available money as it is or if they weren't able to manipulate the cap.

[SkinsHokieFan]

You're making hypotheticals as a reason to go against the consensus best QB in over a decade.

Radio? Please, like GMs actually care what the radio hosts say.

And as far as the money issue goes, it'd be an issue if teams already used all their available money as it is or if they weren't able to manipulate the cap.

Based on Irsay's ridiculous tweets, he cares about what talk radio says. That guy is a fool.

The Manning led Colts go 7-9 next year because the team drafted Luck and had little cap room to improve the team in any other way.

You think Peyton is going to be pleased by that?

And we all know this, these guys are serious competitors. Both Manning and Luck play at an extremely high level and are 2 of the most competitive athletes you'll meet.

You think either of them wants this potential cluster?

Think logically about it. You are not using your best asset (the number 1 overall pick) to quickly improve your team and make another run at a Superbowl with Peyton Manning.

Instead you are telling Peyton Manning "good luck on an 0-16 team"

Here is what will happen with Hostile's scenario

Around the time of the combine it is determined that Peyton Manning is fully healthy and recovered. The fusion is a complete success, he has been throwing since December and has steadily improved and now looks very good, i.e the old Peyton

The Colts in early March pay the 28 million dollar bonus that he is due before the end of the league year and quickly re-sign Reggie Wayne before FA starts.

The Colts then begin discussions with Washington, Miami, Cleveland for the number 1 overall pick, with their preference being to stay in the top 5 so they have a chance to draft Khalil or Blackmon.

They'll discover none of the 3 teams are going to give a full draft bounty or the nonsense of 3 first round picks, due to Manning's health and the fact that RG3 and Matt Barkley are there for the taking as well, and will settle for an Eli Manning-Philip Rivers trade on draft day

[Hoofbite]

Based on Irsay's ridiculous tweets, he cares about what talk radio says. That guy is a fool.

The Manning led Colts go 7-9 next year because the team drafted Luck and had little cap room to improve the team in any other way.

You think Peyton is going to be pleased by that?

And we all know this, these guys are serious competitors. Both Manning and Luck play at an extremely high level and are 2 of the most competitive athletes you'll meet.

You think either of them wants this potential cluster?

Think logically about it. You are not using your best asset (the number 1 overall pick) to quickly improve your team and make another run at a Superbowl with Peyton Manning.

Instead you are telling Peyton Manning "good luck on an 0-16 team"

Quickly improve? And then what? Look for another QB a few years down the road when you could have had Luck?

How can you say that anyone should think logically about it and use the #1 overall pick to select someone OTHER THAN the most highly touted player in the draft who plays a position they will need to fill in 2-3 years?

You're advocating that a team sacrifice a potential franchise QB to attempt to get better right here and now on a team that you claim is so poor? If they suck that much, they can't just get better in 1 season.

You're literally ignoring what would happen if Luck turned out to be as good as he is expected. Indy attempts to find a QB, potentially sinking multiple picks in the process and never actually comes out with the guy they could have had.

Broaden your scope a little more than next year or the year after and it makes perfect sense why Indy would draft him.

The NFL is a QB-driven league. If you have one, you can compete. If not, you probably won't compete. Locking up a guy for a decade to allow you to build the team around him does more for the Colts in the long run than blowing your wad for a QB who won't be on the team in a couple of years.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Quickly improve? And then what? Look for another QB a few years down the road when you could have had Luck?

How can you say that anyone should think logically about it and use the #1 overall pick to select someone OTHER THAN the most highly touted player in the draft who plays a position they will need to fill in 2-3 years?

You're advocating that a team sacrifice a potential franchise QB to attempt to get better right here and now on a team that you claim is so poor? If they suck that much, they can't just get better in 1 season.

You're literally ignoring what would happen if Luck turned out to be as good as he is expected. Indy attempts to find a QB, potentially sinking multiple picks in the process and never actually comes out with the guy they could have had.

Broaden your scope a little more than next year or the year after and it makes perfect sense why Indy would draft him.

The NFL is a QB-driven league. If you have one, you can compete. If not, you probably won't compete. Locking up a guy for a decade to allow you to build the team around him does more for the Colts in the long run than blowing your wad for a QB who won't be on the team in a couple of years.

Again, you are failing to see that if Manning is deemed 100 percent healthy that he is playing for 4 years. Thats why the Colts are paying him that 28 million dollar bonus, not for 2 years, but for 4 years of production.

You know what you have in Peyton Manning. You know he is an all world NFL QB. You do NOT know what you have in Andrew Luck yet. Because he has been behind an NFL o-line at Stanford and has faced little pressure in his college career, he may be more of a product of the system rather then a great QB. Because Josh Johnson put up great numbers with Jim Harbaugh, maybe its his system that produced Andrew Luck not vice versa.

Regardless of what we all think and know about Luck, it is possible he may turn out to be nothing more then average, or God forbid bust.

But you have a known, HEALTHY Peyton Manning. You know what you are getting with him.

So you aren't going to go all in with him? You aren't going to go for another Superbowl and instead hang your next 10 years on a guy you won't see on the field for "a couple of seasons"

That is absurd. 100 percent absurd

This is also a great asset to improve the team, and add either protection (Khalil) or another weapon (Blackmon) for the arsenal that Manning has.

Along with that, you are avoiding a historic QB controversy if Manning falters at all.

[Risen Star]

Again, how do you justify a) not playing the number 1 overall pick for 2 years of a 4 year contract and b) tell Peyton "well, we aren't going to use the biggest asset we have to improve this team so you get another great shot. Now go win 10 games with an 0-16 squad"

The last thing that will happen is both Manning and Luck on that roster. In fact, that is the one thing logical people can rule out

I justify it by having elite depth at the most important position on the field.

QB is the one area of the team where people act like you're not supposed to have depth. I don't buy into it. Manning is not for long. You have an opportunity to have a seamless transition and maintain elite play at again the most important position on your team.

That's great use of the first overall pick for me. I don't care about first year impact. A draft pick is a long term investment.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I justify it by having elite depth at the most important position on the field.

QB is the one area of the team where people act like you're not supposed to have depth. I don't buy into it. Manning is not for long. You have an opportunity to have a seamless transition and maintain elite play at again the most important position on your team.

That's great use of the first overall pick for me. I don't care about first year impact. A draft pick is a long term investment.

How do you know you have elite depth?

Luck hasn't had a chance to play nor get any real reps because he has Manning in front of him.

[Hoofbite]

Again, you are failing to see that if Manning is deemed 100 percent healthy that he is playing for 4 years. Thats why the Colts are paying him that 28 million dollar bonus, not for 2 years, but for 4 years of production.

You know what you have in Peyton Manning. You know he is an all world NFL QB. You do NOT know what you have in Andrew Luck yet. Because he has been behind an NFL o-line at Stanford and has faced little pressure in his college career, he may be more of a product of the system rather then a great QB. Because Josh Johnson put up great numbers with Jim Harbaugh, maybe its his system that produced Andrew Luck not vice versa.

Regardless of what we all think and know about Luck, it is possible he may turn out to be nothing more then average, or God forbid bust.

But you have a known, HEALTHY Peyton Manning. You know what you are getting with him.

So you aren't going to go all in with him? You aren't going to go for another Superbowl and instead hang your next 10 years on a guy you won't see on the field for "a couple of seasons"

That is absurd. 100 percent absurd

This is also a great asset to improve the team, and add either protection (Khalil) or another weapon (Blackmon) for the arsenal that Manning has.

Along with that, you are avoiding a historic QB controversy if Manning falters at all.

100% healthy Manning eliminates the "radio" ****storm, doesn't it?

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

If I was Polian I'd keep both Manning and Luck.

[Risen Star]

How do you know you have elite depth?

Luck hasn't had a chance to play nor get any real reps because he has Manning in front of him.

That's what my scouting department is for. If I'm taking him first overall it's because the scouts I pay have told me he's the best player in this draft. A blue chip elite QB.

I can't pass that up, ride with Manning until he quits and then hope for a franchise QB to fall in my lap when I absolutely have to have one.

Green Bay made the right decision. It doesn't matter if it was a pick in the 20s or the 1st pick. They could have used another player to help Favre. They chose to add great depth at QB and they reap the rewards for it right now.

[SkinsHokieFan]

100% healthy Manning eliminates the "radio" ****storm, doesn't it?

So Luck will be happy riding the pine for 4 years? :lmao2:

That's what my scouting department is for. If I'm taking him first overall it's because the scouts I pay have told me he's the best player in this draft. A blue chip elite QB.

I can't pass that up, ride with Manning until he quits and then hope for a franchise QB to fall in my lap when I absolutely have to have one.

Green Bay made the right decision. It doesn't matter if it was a pick in the 20s or the 1st pick. They could have used another player to help Favre. They chose to add great depth at QB and they reap the rewards for it right now.

It does matter. These are competitors at the highest level.

Andrew Luck will be happy sitting on the bench for 4 years?

Hell, scouting departments thought Tim Couch was a great QB. We didn't know he was an NFL flop until he actually played. And Couch was a guy with 1/8 the expectations of Luck and in what appeared to be a great situation with Chris Palmer as head coach, who had helped make Mark Brunell an excellent QB

Look at Sam Bradford right now. Is he an elite QB? Would Peyton Manning and Sam Bradford be elite depth?

[Risen Star]

It does matter. These are competitors at the highest level.

Andrew Luck will be happy sitting on the bench for 4 years?

Hell, scouting departments thought Tim Couch was a great QB. We didn't know he was an NFL flop until he actually played.

Look at Sam Bradford right now. Is he an elite QB? Would Peyton Manning and Sam Bradford be elite depth?

This how do you know thing is weak. How do I know on any player before I draft him? I don't. I have to trust my scouting department. That's what they're paid for.

I don't care if Andrew Luck is happy. I care about best using that pick for the future of my team and that would be drafting Luck to sit behind Manning until further notice.

Passing up on a blue chip franchise QB prospect is idiotic. As if those types just grow on trees. You can just have one appear for you when the need is dire.

[SkinsHokieFan]

This how do you know thing is weak. How do I know on any player before I draft him? I don't. I have to trust my scouting department. That's what they're paid for.

I don't care if Andrew Luck is happy. I care about best using that pick for the future of my team and that would be drafting Luck to sit behind Manning until further notice.

Passing up on a blue chip franchise QB prospect is idiotic. As if those types just grow on trees. You can just have one appear for you when the need is dire.

So after 4 years of riding the pine, Andrew Luck will re-sign with the Colts?

This after you have seen him throw 50 live passes in 4 years?

[SWG9]

If you have an opportunity to draft the best QB prospect in a generation, you do it.

San Francisco went from Montana to Young and ensured themselves a competitive team for 20 years.

Green Bay went from Favre from Rodgers and will more than likely field a competitive team for 20 years.

Indianapolis has a chance to do the same thing here. No way they pass it up.

[SkinsHokieFan]

If you have an opportunity to draft the best QB prospect in a generation, you do it.

San Francisco went from Montana to Young and ensured themselves a competitive team for 20 years.

Green Bay went from Favre from Rodgers and will more than likely field a competitive team for 20 years.

Indianapolis has a chance to do the same thing here. No way they pass it up.

Apples and oranges

Rodgers a 24th overall pick.

Young brought in after flopping in Tampa. Much easier to stash those guys on the bench

[yimyammer]

I'm kind of surprised there is so much clinging to a QB that will be 36-1/2 at the start of the 2012 season from a neck injury, missed the entire 2011 season and has had multiple neck surgeries.

At what point do you move on?

I honestly cant think of a better scenario for a GM, it seems more irresponsible to pass on Luck and gamble that a 36-1/2 year QB's best days aren't behind him and future injury is not a concern.

It would be nice if Manning would do a series of one year contracts or maybe a 2-year contract so they had flexibility going forward, but if not, I think you gotta move on, draft Luck and let Payton play somewhere else if he won't work with you.

[Risen Star]

So after 4 years of riding the pine, Andrew Luck will re-sign with the Colts?

This after you have seen him throw 50 live passes in 4 years?

If he's riding the pine for 4 years, that can only mean Manning is still Manning. At that point I move one of the two.

I don't see a downside here.

[Risen Star]

I'm kind of surprised there is so much clinging to a QB that will be 36-1/2 at the start of the 2012 season from a neck injury, missed the entire 2011 season and has had multiple neck surgeries.

At what point do you move on?

I honestly cant think of a better scenario for a GM, it seems more irresponsible to pass on Luck and gamble that a 36-1/2 year QB's best days aren't behind him and future injury is not a concern.

It would be nice if Manning would do a series of one year contracts or maybe a 2-year contract so they had flexibility going forward, but if not, I think you gotta move on, draft Luck and let Payton play somewhere else if he won't work with you.

You take the franchise QB when you can get one. You don't pass up that kind of potential because you don't need one immediately. That's idiotically shortsighted.

[Sarge]

My bottom line would be nothing - I'm drafting Luck - period.

[SkinsHokieFan]

If he's riding the pine for 4 years, that can only mean Manning is still Manning. At that point I move one of the two.

I don't see a downside here.

So Andrew Luck is going to sit quietly for 4 years while QBs drafted 2-3 years behind him will be light years ahead in their careers?

And you have killed his trade value at that point

Peyton, if he gets the bonus, will mean hs is fully healthy for the next half decade, considering the lack of wear and tear he has had and now he is suddenly pain free (compared to 2006-2010)

So you aren't going to improve the team at all with your biggest chip?

[Risen Star]

So Andrew Luck is going to sit quietly for 4 years while QBs drafted 2-3 years behind him will be light years ahead in their careers?

And you have killed his trade value at that point

Peyton, if he gets the bonus, will mean hs is fully healthy for the next half decade, considering the lack of wear and tear he has had and now he is suddenly pain free (compared to 2006-2010)

So you aren't going to improve the team at all with your biggest chip?

He'll sit as long as he has to. Like Aaron Rodgers did before taking over for Favre.

I've improved my team greatly. I've added the best prospect possible to take over when Manning is done. A great chance to go from one elite QB to another. Avoiding years that can quickly turn into a decade looking for the next franchise QB. That's tremendous use of my 1st overall pick.

[SkinsHokieFan]

He'll sit as long as he has to. Like Aaron Rodgers did before taking over for Favre.

I've improved my team greatly. I've added the best prospect possible to take over when Manning is done. A great chance to go from one elite QB to another. Avoiding years that can quickly turn into a decade looking for the next franchise QB. That's tremendous use of my 1st overall pick.

How have you improved your team to compete?

Your 1st round pick isn't going to have a meaningful impact on your team for 4 years.

You are spending 30+ million in cap space on the QB position.

And you are damaging the career of the number 1 overall pick and causing a potential historic QB controversy. The guy labeled as one of the "best prospects in a generation" at his position is going to be riding the pine while lesser guys drafted 2-3 years after him are making headlines and getting new deals. Yea, a competitor like Luck will have no problem with that

Its asinine. Even Colts fans think its absurd

[Kangaroo]

Manning is coming back and will be 100%.

What is your bottom line asking price on Andrew Luck?

You take Luck and trade Peyton

Sorry but the guy is coming of neck surgery and he is 35 if Joe Monatna and Bret farve can be traded so can Peyton. The Colts need to rebuild the run is over.

Take Luck and see if the jets want Peyton they are a QB away and Sanchez is not the guy. I would in a heart beat and bring in a vet to work with luck.

It is a no brainer

[SkinsHokieFan]

You take Luck and trade Peyton

Sorry but the guy is coming of neck surgery and he is 35 if Joe Monatna and Bret farve can be traded so can Peyton. The Colts need to rebuild the run is over.

Take Luck and see if the jets want Peyton they are a QB away and Sanchez is not the guy. I would in a heart beat and bring in a vet to work with luck.

It is a no brainer

Good grief, its been established for months that Peyton's contract makes him untradeable.

The Colts will either have to cut Manning or hope he retires

[Risen Star]

How have you improved your team to compete?

Your 1st round pick isn't going to have a meaningful impact on your team for 4 years.

You are spending 30+ million in cap space on the QB position.

And you are damaging the career of the number 1 overall pick and causing a potential historic QB controversy. The guy labeled as one of the "best prospects in a generation" at his position is going to be riding the pine while lesser guys drafted 2-3 years after him are making headlines and getting new deals. Yea, a competitor like Luck will have no problem with that

Its asinine. Even Colts fans think its absurd

I've improved my team by adding a young blue chip John Elway-like prospect to the most important position on the field. How did the Packers improve their team when they took Rodgers?

I'm not interested in first year impact. This isn't free agency. I'm taking the guy who best helps this team long term. And that's the QB.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I've improved my team by adding a young blue chip John Elway-like prospect to the most important position on the field. How did the Packers improve their team when they took Rodgers?

I'm not interested in first year impact. This isn't free agency. I'm taking the guy who best helps this team long term. And that's the QB.

You are once again comparing the 24th overall pick with the number 1 overall pick.

So again, how are you telling Peyton Manning that you failed to improve a 1-15, 2-14 team with the best asset you have?

And you are going to sit a John Elway like prospect for 3+ years with a 100 percent healthy Peyton playing? :lmao2:

And expect him not to make noise after a season and half of getting no meaningful reps?

[Kangaroo]

Good grief, its been established for months that Peyton's contract makes him untradeable.

The Colts will either have to cut Manning or hope he retires

I forgot about his 28 million in march bonus which means they can not keep him either.

Yea Colts will just have to cut him lose and move on

[Risen Star]

You are once again comparing the 24th overall pick with the number 1 overall pick.

So again, how are you telling Peyton Manning that you failed to improve a 1-15, 2-14 team with the best asset you have?

And you are going to sit a John Elway like prospect for 3+ years with a 100 percent healthy Peyton playing? :lmao2:

And expect him not to make noise after a season and half of getting no meaningful reps?

I'm comparing a first round pick on a team that doesn't "need" a QB the first year. But that pick has proven to be a great one down the road. Which is all that really matters with draft picks.

I'll fill needs in free agency. I'll build my core through the draft.

I'm going to sit my John Elway until it's time for him to play. Whether that be 1, 2 or 3 years. Doesn't matter to me.

What I'm not going to do is waste my pick on a current need and then watch a franchise QB leading another team for the next 10-15 years while I'm stuck with a WR and no QB because the need wasn't immediate.

[Doomsday]

I would listen to offers because that team has some serious flaws but if someone didnt offer the moon, I would take Luck and not think twice about it.

[NeonDeion21]

What about this scenario. The Browns offer you their 2 1st this year, 1st next year, plus 2 2nds and you drop down and grab RG3 and let him sit behind Peyton while building your defense up with all those extra picks. When RG3 is ready, I am sure you could get another 2nd out of Peyton just like Philly did with Donovan.

[Zaxor]

Folks they do not draft Luck to sit him... He supposedly is as NFL ready a QB as Peyton was if not more so.... Nor should they ignore the rest of their team... If they draft Luck they need to trade Peyton so they can build their team... If they keep Peyton they need to trade the rights to Luck so they can build their team.

It is a bad spot (PR wise) for the Colts they know they should draft Luck and trade Peyton but if Luck should fail....:eek: the fallout from the Fans and Press would be tremendous...Heck their might be outrage even without Luck failing.

[jnday]

You are once again comparing the 24th overall pick with the number 1 overall pick.

So again, how are you telling Peyton Manning that you failed to improve a 1-15, 2-14 team with the best asset you have?

And you are going to sit a John Elway like prospect for 3+ years with a 100 percent healthy Peyton playing? :lmao2:

And expect him not to make noise after a season and half of getting no meaningful reps?

It's not just the owner of the Skins, the fans can't see past next week either.

[BraveHeartFan]

It's a very passionate argument from a Skins fan who is hoping they'll pass on Luck and let the Skins trade up for him.

Especially after the Skins screwed up their draft position another slot or two by beating the Giants yesterday.

[BraveHeartFan]

So after 4 years of riding the pine, Andrew Luck will re-sign with the Colts?

This after you have seen him throw 50 live passes in 4 years?


You're assuming far to much in the way of how long Manning plays.


I don't really care what sort of rosey outlook anyone tries to place for Manning. There is absolutely no way he plays more than 2 seasons and I doubt he gets through 2 more full seasons.

[SkinsHokieFan]

It's not just the owner of the Skins, the fans can't see past next week either.

Again, teams don't waste resources for an unknown 3-4 years down the line.

The bigger picture will be Luck's short contract. You only get so long to evaluate a 1st round pick now. Luck won't sit there quietly for 3-4 years and just sign whatever the Colts offer in 2016



You're assuming far to much in the way of how long Manning plays.


I don't really care what sort of rosey outlook anyone tries to place for Manning. There is absolutely no way he plays more than 2 seasons and I doubt he gets through 2 more full seasons.

So in 2 seasons the Colts will kill their cap by releasing Manning? :lmao2:


And how many neck fusions have you performed?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/09/peyton-mannings-surgery-study-offers-optimism/1


Of the 53 NFL players treated surgically for CDH, 72% returned to play and continued to play in an average of 29.3 games over a 2.8-year period after surgery. (Only 46% of those who treated the injury nonsurgically returned to play, and averaged 14.7 games over a 1.5-year period before retiring.)
-- Dr. Hsu said those players who returned after surgery did have lower performance scores and started fewer games than before their injuries, but said the differences weren't "statistically significant."


http://espn.go.com/fantasy/blog/_/name/bell_stephania/id/6944942

Dr. Joseph Maroon, who is vice chairman and professor of neurosurgery at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, as well as team neurosurgeon for the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://javascript<b></b>:newWin('http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers')) and medical director for the WWE, has extensive experience with these types of surgeries in this population of athletes. Maroon has performed this ACDF on at least 10 professional football players and wrestlers, all of whom returned to competition. Examples include wrestler John Cena, who returned to the ring within two months after surgery, as well as former NFL players Ruben Brown (http://javascript<b></b>:newWin('http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/772/ruben-brown')) and Mike Alstott (http://javascript<b></b>:newWin('http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/925/mike-alstott')), who both played for several years after their surgeries. In an interesting note, cornerback Kelvin Hayden (http://javascript<b></b>:newWin('http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8474/kelvin-hayden')), recently signed by the Atlanta Falcons (http://javascript<b></b>:newWin('http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-falcons')) after spending the past six seasons with the Colts, underwent a similar procedure in the offseason. Hayden had to pass the Falcons' physical to join the team, and as he told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, "My neck is fine. … It's something that everybody was questioning. I'm just glad the Atlanta Falcons gave me an opportunity. I'm just excited to get out there and have some fun. I want to show that I can still play."

So again, Hos' scenario is Manning is 100 percent healthy. His neck is healed. He is finally playing with no neck pain for the first time in 4 years. So he'll only play 2 years max?

You are simply parroting of ESPN's idea of what will happen. Its clear few people have a) taken in contractual ramifications of BOTH Manning and Luck and b) have no ability to think critically or look ahead because a somewhat similar situation worked out recently with Favre and Rodgers (and even then you had a 6-10 season sandwhiched in there)

[jnday]

The fact matter is that Manning may come back and be healthy ( I have my doubts ) but he can't run from father time. Farve has been the example of a QB playing until the age of 40 . He is the exception rather than the rule. Manning is already considered an old QB. Are the Colts ready to gamble that he will last another 5 years? I wouldn't. Taking Luck should be an easy pick. It only makes sense for the long term. I'm sure the neck situation will not go away either. Anytime you fuse an area together, the fusion cause more pressure above and below the fusion site . This create more disc problems in the future. Manning is a gamble to stay healthy.

[BraveHeartFan]

Again, teams don't waste resources for an unknown 3-4 years down the line.

The bigger picture will be Luck's short contract. You only get so long to evaluate a 1st round pick now. Luck won't sit there quietly for 3-4 years and just sign whatever the Colts offer in 2016





So in 2 seasons the Colts will kill their cap by releasing Manning? :lmao2:


And how many neck fusions have you performed?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/09/peyton-mannings-surgery-study-offers-optimism/1



http://espn.go.com/fantasy/blog/_/name/bell_stephania/id/6944942



So again, Hos' scenario is Manning is 100 percent healthy. His neck is healed. He is finally playing with no neck pain for the first time in 4 years. So he'll only play 2 years max?

You are simply parroting of ESPN's idea of what will happen. Its clear few people have a) taken in contractual ramifications of BOTH Manning and Luck and b) have no ability to think critically or look ahead because a somewhat similar situation worked out recently with Favre and Rodgers (and even then you had a 6-10 season sandwhiched in there)

How is going to kill their cap anymore cutting him then then it would be to cut him now?

No one in their right mind is going to pass up a shot to have Luck simply because Manning might play another two years.

You're figures there said 70 something % averaged about 2.8 more years. I'm saying there is no way he plays more than 2 more and those figures seem to pretty much back that up.

Plus of those 70 something % how old were the players returning? What positions did they play and how much of a pounding were they going to take?

I get it. You're a Skins fan and you're desperately hoping the Colts either cut Manning so you guys can pick him up or that they let you move up and get Luck cause you want a QB.

Unfortunately for you I've got a pretty good feeling that Polian is smarter than that and isn't likely to let the chance to have a QB like Luck step in a couple years from now simply pass by.

I could be wrong about that. Maybe Polian is a complete idiot but something tells me he's likely not.

And the ESPN line is hilarious because I don't have a clue what ESPN's take is on this casue I rarely, if ever, watch any of their coverage on anything.

But it's cute that a Redskins fan is trying to tell anyone else that they can't think critically when it's pretty obvious what you're reasoning is for wanting to see this play out a certain way.

[SkinsHokieFan]

How is going to kill their cap anymore cutting him then then it would be to cut him now?

Bonus due 5 days before the end of the current NFL year. You cut Peyton before that, you get off scott free

2 years down the line you are looknig at a 22 million dollar hit



You're figures there said 70 something % averaged about 2.8 more years. I'm saying there is no way he plays more than 2 more and those figures seem to pretty much back that up.

Plus of those 70 something % how old were the players returning? What positions did they play and how much of a pounding were they going to take?

.

Read the second article. Mike Alstott, a full back, is one of them

Remember, this is a neck fusion. Fusion will make that bone stronger.

Colts fans get this. The medical community gets this. Peyton will be around for a little while longer :)

(And personally, I am much more on the RG3 bandwagon due to his unique skillset. He is a great fit for a ZBS team. My "knock" on Luck is things are ridiculously easy for him with that o-line. Same with Barkley and the talent he has around him)

[REDVOLUTION]

My options:


1. Get Luck, sit him, Manning could start 2 more years?

2. Get luck, trade Manning, get all you can


Manning is done, I believe. Even if totally healthy. I dont think he ever gets near winning SB again.


Window shut!

[jnday]

Bonus due 5 days before the end of the current NFL year. You cut Peyton before that, you get off scott free

2 years down the line you are looknig at a 22 million dollar hit





Read the second article. Mike Alstott, a full back, is one of them

Remember, this is a neck fusion. Fusion will make that bone stronger.

Colts fans get this. The medical community gets this. Peyton will be around for a little while longer :)

(And personally, I am much more on the RG3 bandwagon due to his unique skillset. He is a great fit for a ZBS team. My "knock" on Luck is things are ridiculously easy for him with that o-line. Same with Barkley and the talent he has around him)
Fusion makes the bone stronger , the other discs will be weaker . If you ask the medical community , the will admit it . I`ve had 3 neck fusions myself and I need 2 more due to the fact that he areas above and below were weakened . If the Colts fans are looking for Manning to return to form , it`s not going to happen . Not at his age .

[SkinsHokieFan]

Fusion makes the bone stronger , the other discs will be weaker . If you ask the medical community , the will admit it . I`ve had 3 neck fusions myself and I need 2 more due to the fact that he areas above and below were weakened . If the Colts fans are looking for Manning to return to form , it`s not going to happen . Not at his age .

Ouch.

Right out of college I worked for a company which was producing artificial disks.

The whole processes just sounded not fun to me. Best of luck with your injuries and recovery.

[jnday]

Ouch.

Right out of college I worked for a company which was producing artificial disks.

The whole processes just sounded not fun to me. Best of luck with your injuries and recovery.

I have the same problem in my back as well , several fusions . Thanks for the well wishes .

[BraveHeartFan]

I have no doubt they can do something for Peyton to make his quality of life just fine. They're not magicians though and I just very highly doubt that he's going to play anymore than 2 years, if that, and certainly not at the level he once did.

But I've been wrong before and maybe he'll want to prove something and will go out and prove it.

[ChldsPlay]

I take it this thread is assuming the Colts get the #1 pick instead of St. Louis or Minnesota?