DMN: Jerry Jones: I don't see myself stepping down as GM or retiring any time soon

[Mr Cowboy]

Jerry Jones: I don't see myself stepping down as GM or retiring any time soon

Not happy with Jerry Jones the general manager? Well, don't expect anything to change in the near future. The Dallas Cowboys owner and GM made it known on Monday that he isn't going anywhere. After all, it's his team, so he can do whatever he wants.

But considering the Cowboys haven't played for a Super Bowl since the mid-90s, critics have asked for Jones to step aside and hire someone to handle that position.

So does Jones ever sit back and ponder the idea of moving aside and hiring a GM?

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/12/jerry-jones-i-dont-see-myself.html

[fivetwos]

It's a lose/lose proposition for him to quit now.

If the team then goes on to win, it only serves as proof that he was the problem all along.

He would rather take his chances doing it his way than to win with someone else at the controls.

He knows damn well the perception is that the 90's run was the work of Jimmy.

Jerry wont quit until he has at least another 15 tries at a title.

Get comfortable folks, it's probably going to be a long ride.

[Hostile]

It's a lose/lose proposition for him to quit now.

If the team then goes on to win, it only serves as proof that he was the problem all along.

He would rather take his chances doing it his way than to win with someone else at the controls.

He knows damn well the perception is that the 90's run was the work of Jimmy.

Jerry wont quit until he has at least another 15 tries at a title.

Get comfortable folks, it's probably going to be a long ride.Did you mean lose? Because if they go on to win it would prove he wasn't the problem the way most say it.

[fivetwos]

Did you mean lose? Because if they go on to win it would prove he wasn't the problem the way most say it.

He loses either way by quitting now.

If the team wins anytime soon after that, it goes a long way toward proving he was the problem.

So either lose in that regard, or literally.

Moot point anyway. He isn't done thinking he can win.

[burmafrd]

and the earth revolves around the sun

[Doomsday101]

Did you mean lose? Because if they go on to win it would prove he wasn't the problem the way most say it.

I like Jerry but I will say anytime this franchise fails any time a coach fails as GM that goes back to Jerry. There have been moves this team has made I disagree with and some I have liked. I think Jerry over the last few years has changed how things will be done and hopefully this will pay off in the long run.

[BraveHeartFan]

I'm confused...was this really ever in question? Are there actually people out there who actually believe there is any chance that Jerry plans on firing himself as GM?

You'd think this topic would become extremely old given that it's simply not going to change until Jerry is ready to hand everything over to Stephen....but I guess not.

[SA_Gunslinger]

I'm definitely in the "I wish he'd turn it over to Stephen" camp, but deep in my gut I know that he will be the next Al Davis. He won't ever quit. He'll have the reigns until the day he dies. Literally.

:starspin

[Royal Laegotti]

Why would Jerry quit, he's been doing such a good job!:rolleyes:

[JonJon]

I'm definitely in the "I wish he'd turn it over to Stephen" camp, but deep in my gut I know that he will be the next Al Davis. He won't ever quit. He'll have the reigns until the day he dies. Literally.

:starspin

Where is this lady when you need her?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rKHdDAAvHdc/Tc6b9_E5tjI/AAAAAAAAC6o/29Pv2xMRbQ4/s1600/misery-1.jpg

[Everlastingxxx]

Jerry sucks...that’s all.

[Chocolate Lab]

Where is this lady when you need her?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rKHdDAAvHdc/Tc6b9_E5tjI/AAAAAAAAC6o/29Pv2xMRbQ4/s1600/misery-1.jpg

:laugh1:

[visionary]

JJ, we know that you will never do it but can you at least not say that?

it gives us (Cowboy fans) some false hope for the future

dont take our hope away ;)

[RS12]

Expect the mediocrity and excuses to continue until further notice.

[zrinkill]

us (Cowboy fans)

Another false statement.

[visionary]

Another false statement.

Wow!!

you are more childish than i thought

[zrinkill]

Wow!!

you are more childish than i thought

You do not like your own medicine? You got my attention ...... rejoice.

[visionary]

You do not like your own medicine? You got my attention ...... rejoice.

i wont respond to you in kind because in the other thread i already stated that we should agree to disagree and call it a day

[zrinkill]

i wont respond to you in kind because in the other thread i already stated that we should agree to disagree and call it a day

And I will give you the same answer.

After days of quoting me in posts about Tebow...... you suddenly want to "call it a day" after I notice?


how predictable.

[Double Trouble]

Expect the mediocrity and excuses to continue until further notice.:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

[Dfense94]

Wishing death is extreme, but are there people who disagree that this team would ultimately be better off without Jerry as a GM?Do people honestly think he's a good GM?

[garrett316]

Wishing death is extreme, but are there people who disagree that this team would ultimately be better off without Jerry as a GM?Do people honestly think he's a good GM?
Yes, look around the board. There are several people who amazingly think he is a good GM. how I dont know, but they do exist.

Not only is Jerry incompetent, overbearing, and egomaniacal, but he also makes little or no sense when speaking. Looks like we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future. Hopefully his continued incompetence isn't further compounded by the football Gods karma over his role in the seating disaster at last year's SB.

[03EBZ06]

My only problem with an owner (any owner) being a GM is there is no accountability, GM answers to no one when he is also an owner.

[Mash]

I wish Jeery was 20yrs younger

I love the passion he has for this team.....

Also I get a joy reading all the Jerry hater posts. ;) :p: :p:

[4miler]

Jerry knows that as the gm that all he has to do is put a competitive team on the field (hell 8-8 will do) and we will drink the cool-aid. He can sit on his hands during free agency periods and draft for backups (2009). The more we drink the richer he becomes...most of us fell in love with the cowboys during our youth and it's now an addiction that we can't walk away from...no matter how bad the defense is or the screwups by Garrett and Romo we still come back to watch the next week. 5 more wins...

[Risen Star]

My only problem with an owner (any owner) being a GM is there is no accountability, GM answers to no one when he is also an owner.

Yeah, that's kind of a big deal.

It might create a situation where you don't win for nearly two decades, if you're not careful.

[Mr Cowboy]

Yeah, that's kind of a big deal.

It might create a situation where you don't win for nearly two decades, if you're not careful.

You're right, but remember, Jerry is the greatest owner. He is passionate about his team and wants to win in the worst way and will do anything to win!:rolleyes:

[Double Trouble]

You're right, but remember, Jerry is the greatest owner. He is passionate about his team and wants to win in the worst way and will do anything to win!:rolleyes:

Winning always takes a backseat to Jones' ego. That much is obvious.

[fairviewfarmer]

Expect the mediocrity and excuses to continue until further notice.
You forgot to mention the annual preseason super bowl hype from Jerry also.:D

[2233boys]

Worst owner in the league

[BHendri5]

Jerry is not the problem, never has been.

[Wolfpack]

You all have to remember that Al Davis was actually a major force in coaching for about a decade. He really pushed the game forward in terms of a lot of things, he was a brilliant guy. He hung on 20 years too long however and tarnished what he had done.

Jerry isn't in the same room as Al Davis from a football standpoint. Jerry is a great salesman and business guy but doesn't know a third of what Davis knew about football.

[bbgun]

Jerry is not the problem, never has been.

And you're a valued poster around here. There, now we're both lying.

[2233boys]

And you're a valued poster around here. There, now we're both lying.

:laugh2:

[starchamber]

[QUOTE=Mr Cowboy;4336768]Jerry Jones: I don't see myself stepping down as GM or retiring any time soon

Not happy with Jerry Jones the general manager? Well, don't expect anything to change in the near future. The Dallas Cowboys owner and GM made it known on Monday that he isn't going anywhere. After all, it's his team, so he can do whatever he wants.

But considering the Cowboys haven't played for a Super Bowl since the mid-90s, critics have asked for Jones to step aside and hire someone to handle that position.

So does Jones ever sit back and ponder the idea of moving aside and hiring a GM?

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/12/jerry-jones-i-dont-see-myself.html[/QUOTE
Damn, Damn, Damn..........
:bang2:

[starchamber]

He loses either way by quitting now.

If the team wins anytime soon after that, it goes a long way toward proving he was the problem.

So either lose in that regard, or literally.

Moot point anyway. He isn't done thinking he can win.

How does he lose? He OWNS THE TEAM!!!! He will win more often than not in that position. Unless he is the kind of egomaniacal owner that wants to take credit for everything....Oh, wait. Nevermind.

[Royal Laegotti]

Expect the mediocrity and excuses to continue until further notice.

:hammer:


Ain't that the truth.

[Royal Laegotti]

Jerry is not the problem, never has been.
Ahh, delusions abound. Not shocked though.

[newlander]

Originally Posted by BHendri5 http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4338596#post4338596)
Jerry is not the problem, never has been

...OMG........that's just............:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

...........beyond ridiculous

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by BHendri5 [/URL][URL="http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif"]http://cowboyszone.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4338596#post4338596)
Jerry is not the problem, never has been

...OMG........that's just............:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

...........beyond ridiculous
Or exactly right and you've been duped by the media.

[BraveHeartFan]

Gotta love it when people start attacking one another over differing opinions on a sports owner.

lol.

[Alexander]

Or exactly right and you've been duped by the media.
That darn evil media again? When will they stop being a scourge to this franchise????

[mmillman]

If Jerry continues to put a subpar product on the field we have the choice to not buy tickets or merchandice.

[BraveHeartFan]

If Jerry continues to put a subpar product on the field we have the choice to not buy tickets or merchandice.

Which is quite honestly absolutely the only way you get to Jerry in any form or fashion.

Now I ask...how far does ones hatred of Jerry Jones the GM go? Does it go far enough to quit buying tickets, merchandise, and watching the team?


See for me there is no way that will ever happen. So I'm never going to be on that wagon.

[Hoofbite]

Jerry is not the problem, never has been.

What exactly...........is the problem?

Is there even a problem?

[junk]

Or exactly right and you've been duped by the media.

1 playoff win since 1996. What has been the one constant throughout that period in time?

If Jerry isn't a part of the problem, what is, exactly?

[Hostile]

1 playoff win since 1996. What has been the one constant throughout that period in time?

If Jerry isn't a part of the problem, what is, exactly?"Constants" matter about as much as shovels in the outhouse.

[Hostile]

That darn evil media again? When will they stop being a scourge to this franchise????Never, it sells.

Question for ya if you're up to it. Can you name me one of these millionaires or billionaires that is so trusting with his money and investment that they are not behind the scenes every bit as involved as Jerry? My goodness, how did Jerry Richardson know enough about his team to be part of the owner's negotiating committee?

You want to buy paparazzi crap, fine by me. But never expect me to not be amused by how gullible the lot of you are.

[visionary]

Jerry is not the problem, never has been.

agreed

he is the solution to the problems faced by the giants, eagles, and skins :)

[bbgun]

That darn evil media again? When will they stop being a scourge to this franchise????

Pretty sure the eeeeeevil Steve Dennis has something to do with this latest nosedive. He's just not deferential enough to Garrett during press conferences or something. :laugh2:

believe
finish
cowboy up
right direction
the last game means nothing
big picture
?????

[visionary]

Pretty sure the eeeeeevil Steve Dennis has something to do with this latest nosedive. He's just not deferential enough to Garrett during press conferences or something. :laugh2:

believe
finish
cowboy up
right direction
the last game means nothing
big picture
?????

next man up
process
stacking good practices

...

it never ends

[BraveHeartFan]

Yeah press conferences were clearly the reason this team hasn't won more playoff games and Superbowls. Good thing those press conferences by the Big Tuna did so much for this teams championship success...


Although I do get the point of not wanting to blame it on the media. The media aren't the problem with the teams lack of success either.

[Doomsday101]

next man up
process
stacking good practices

...

it never ends

I take you he should say we don't stand a chance. Not sure why we are even going to NY, We decided that practice means nothing. I'm sure the surrender attitude would be more welcomed for some since they have taken on this view anyways.

His comments are views he is trying to drill into the heads of the player it is not for the fans. Pretty much the same views I hear at the Pat new conferences.

[bbgun]

next man up
process
stacking good practices

...

it never ends

The cornball expressions never end. You'll also find that the same people who throw around words like "sensationalism" and "yellow journalism" (yeah, right) are some of the biggest propagandists this forum has to offer. They wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them in the face with a 2x4.

[Alexander]

Never, it sells.

Question for ya if you're up to it. Can you name me one of these millionaires or billionaires that is so trusting with his money and investment that they are not behind the scenes every bit as involved as Jerry?

Question for ya if you are up to it. Can you name me one millionaire or billionaire that is so full of themselves that they have actually suggested they have entertained the idea of actually coaching their franchise?

It is not about being "behind the scenes". The majority of the owners in the NFL are hands on running the business. They are all men behind the curtain.

Jerry Jones is center stage in front of the curtain making a fool of himself every year and humiliating good coaches in the process.


My goodness, how did Jerry Richardson know enough about his team to be part of the owner's negotiating committee?


What are you on about? Who has suggested that any owner is ignorant to the greater processes involved in running a football team? We are talking things like talent evaluation and the tiniest details of a team, things Jerry Jones indulges himself in while other owners rarely do. He even does things most general managers rarely do.

You want to buy paparazzi crap, fine by me. But never expect me to not be amused by how gullible the lot of you are.

Likewise, as I get amusement out of seeing "the lot of you" buy his con game each and every year. It is like watching a crowd gathering around a snake oil saleman, waving dollar bills.

[Risen Star]

Which is quite honestly absolutely the only way you get to Jerry in any form or fashion.

Now I ask...how far does ones hatred of Jerry Jones the GM go? Does it go far enough to quit buying tickets, merchandise, and watching the team?


See for me there is no way that will ever happen. So I'm never going to be on that wagon.

I'll never stop watching the team.

But I haven't purchased any tickets or merchandise for myself in nearly ten years.

[Risen Star]

I can't understand how anyone can defend Jerry anymore.

It just blows my mind that people are so willing to defend their team at all costs that even an owner pulling the head coach aside in the 1st quarter of a game to make sure he handles his personnel properly is seen as okay. Why that's just passion, people.

Give. Me. A. Break.

[junk]

"Constants" matter about as much as shovels in the outhouse.

You avoided the question. If Jerry isn't the problem, what is?

Coaching? Drafting? Personnel?

Those all have to fall at the feet of the owner/GM.

Unless you are just chalking it all up to bad luck. :laugh2:

[Doomsday101]

You avoided the question. If Jerry isn't the problem, what is?

Coaching? Drafting? Personnel?

Those all have to fall at the feet of the owner/GM.

Unless you are just chalking it all up to bad luck. :laugh2:

I agree. As the GM it all falls back to you. He hired BP and when it failed it falls to Jerry. When a player bust it falls to Jerry what gets me is how quick people are to claim Jerry had nothing to do with a player that succeeds. :laugh2:

[Hoofbite]

Which is quite honestly absolutely the only way you get to Jerry in any form or fashion.

Now I ask...how far does ones hatred of Jerry Jones the GM go? Does it go far enough to quit buying tickets, merchandise, and watching the team?


See for me there is no way that will ever happen. So I'm never going to be on that wagon.

Never going to happen.

People will flood that stadium all the same. That's his ace in the hole.

He's built a place that is as grand as the game itself and the spectacle of seeing that place is enough of a draw to fill the seats.

It's like Fenway or Wrigley to a certain extent. For different reasons obviously, those places are so grand that they draw a crowd themselves. I don't like the Sox or Cubs but I'm gonna go to both of those places to watch a game at some point in my life.

Hell of a business man.

[Alexander]

Coaching? Drafting? Personnel?

Responsible for hiring the coaches. Responsible for the final say in the draft process. Oh look, he is responsible for personnel too.

That is the problem when you are involved in everything from socks to jocks--you cannot escape culpability.

[Doomsday101]

Responsible for hiring the coaches. Responsible for the final say in the draft process. Oh look, he is responsible for personnel too.

That is the problem when you are involved in everything from socks to jocks--you cannot escape culpability.

Simple question do GM have final say?

[junk]

Never, it sells.

Question for ya if you're up to it. Can you name me one of these millionaires or billionaires that is so trusting with his money and investment that they are not behind the scenes every bit as involved as Jerry? My goodness, how did Jerry Richardson know enough about his team to be part of the owner's negotiating committee?


Jerry Richardson has a general manager. His name is Marty Hurney. I don't see what point you are trying to make there. I'd defintely argue that he isn't as involved in football matters as Jerry. I don't think you can find an owner in the league as involved. Does anyone else in the league give themselves the dual title of "Owner/GM"?

Since Jerry has owned the team, there have been two periods that I would consider successful. Jimmy's and Parcells. Jimmy because he won Super Bowls and Parcells because he took a laughingstock, cellar dwelling franchise and restored it to respectability. Ultimately, Parcells failed because he failed to finish the job, but at least it was a successful period in that it moved the franchise forward.

Coincidence that those have been the coaches with the most control over personnel and actually knew something about football? Nope.


You want to buy paparazzi crap, fine by me. But never expect me to not be amused by how gullible the lot of you are.

Do you really think this opinion of Jerry is influenced by the media? No, it is observant people that have been following the team for his entire tenure.

[Hoofbite]

To those who don't think Jerry is the problem........

Is there even a problem?

[Alexander]

Simple question do GM have final say?
Of course they do. Jerry Jones the GM would have been fired and found himself unemployed at least a decade ago. If he lost ownership and had to try to find himself a GM job in the NFL, he would be milking unemployment for quite a while.

[RS12]

I can't understand how anyone can defend Jerry anymore.

It just blows my mind that people are so willing to defend their team at all costs that even an owner pulling the head coach aside in the 1st quarter of a game to make sure he handles his personnel properly is seen as okay. Why that's just passion, people.

Give. Me. A. Break.

:laugh2: Tell that to half the board.

[Alexander]

Does anyone else in the league give themselves the dual title of "Owner/GM"?

Al Davis, RIP was similar. About the only other owner similar now is Mike Brown. Nice company.

[RS12]

That darn evil media again? When will they stop being a scourge to this franchise????

Yah, they fool people with 2 eyes and an IQ in triple digits every time.:laugh2:

[Doomsday101]

To those who don't think Jerry is the problem........

Is there even a problem?

Of course he is the Owner/GM and it all falls back on him. Honestly if I was given a franchise and had to hire a GM jerry would not be the guy I hire. Now for the reality since so many claims to be realist, Jerry is the owner and the GM that is not going to change no matter how many I hate jerry threads is created. What I do what to see and have seen over the last few years is Jerry hiring people who do understand football and listening to them.

When Tex was the GM he was not a football guy he was a promoter that was his role with the Rams he was the head of Public Relations and he was also vocal, when Landry wanted no part of the America's team moniker feeling it would only help motivate other teams it was Tex who openly promoted it. Tex hired a HC and a damn fine scout in Gil Brandt and with those 3 working together we built a great franchise.

What I want is for Jerry as the GM to hire people and listen to their input and views, to listen to the HC needs and try to address those needs.

I think Jerry is doing that.

I will also say there were years after Jimmy left that Jerry was not doing this and it hurt us.

[Hoofbite]

Of course he is the Owner/GM and it all falls back on him. Honestly if I was given a franchise and had to hire a GM jerry would not be the guy I hire. Now for the reality since so many claims to be realist, Jerry is the owner and the GM that is not going to change no matter how many I hate jerry threads is created. What I do what to see and have seen over the last few years is Jerry hiring people who do understand football and listening to them.

When Tex was the GM he was not a football guy he was a promoter that was his role with the Rams he was the head of Public Relations and he was also vocal, when Landry wanted no part of the America's team moniker feeling it would only help motivate other teams it was Tex who openly promoted it. Tex hired a HC and a damn fine scout in Gil Brandt and with those 3 working together we built a great franchise.

What I want is for Jerry as the GM to hire people and listen to their input and views, to listen to the HC needs and try to address those needs.

I think Jerry is doing that.

I will also say there were years after Jimmy left that Jerry was not doing this and it hurt us.

Well the only problem with listening to people he hires is that Campo, Gailey, Wade have been some of his hires in the past 10-15 years and as a result this team has been a sporadic mess.

A GM should listen to those with more knowledge but if he's hiring guys who pretty much suck, well...........

[Doomsday101]

Well the only problem with listening to people he hires is that Campo, Gailey, Wade have been some of his hires in the past 10-15 years and as a result this team has been a sporadic mess.

A GM should listen to those with more knowledge but if he's hiring guys who pretty much suck, well...........

Yes there have been and others have been Jimmy and Parcells. As for Wade we have picked up some very talented players with him here and the work of the scouting department.

This past off season with the draft picks and FA in my view have been very good. Instead of hanging on to over priced player who are not cutting it this team has made the choice to part way, problem players are shown the door.

I grant you the key is hiring good people and listening to those people from the HC to the scouting. As GM he will still be involved. Coaches and scouts are not putting these player contracts together and managing a salary cap so the GM has to work closely with them no matter if it is the Dallas Cowboys or the Green Bay Packers.

[Risen Star]

I agree. As the GM it all falls back to you. He hired BP and when it failed it falls to Jerry. When a player bust it falls to Jerry what gets me is how quick people are to claim Jerry had nothing to do with a player that succeeds. :laugh2:

Hiring Parcells didn't fail. He's the only reason why we contend today. He completely changed the direction of this franchise.

We were awful before he arrived.

[Risen Star]

Well the only problem with listening to people he hires is that Campo, Gailey, Wade have been some of his hires in the past 10-15 years and as a result this team has been a sporadic mess.

A GM should listen to those with more knowledge but if he's hiring guys who pretty much suck, well...........

I'd argue that the GM should be the smartest guy in the room. That's how he got to the position.

The problem here is ours didn't get there on merit. He bought his way in. So we're stuck with trying to win despite of our GM.

[Doomsday101]

Hiring Parcells didn't fail. He's the only reason why we contend today. He completely changed the direction of this franchise.

We were awful before he arrived.

So then Jerry made the right call hiring him? I don't hate BP only reason I said fail is using the standard around here which is post season success and SB. BP did help change the direction and looking at many young guys on this team we have continued to add to it.

[Risen Star]

So then Jerry made the right call hiring him? I don't hate BP only reason I said fail is using the standard around here which is post season success and SB. BP did help change the direction and looking at many young guys on this team we have continued to add to it.

Yes. Jerry made the right call hiring him. He was the proven team builder that we needed to change things.

I also agree that since he's left, we've done a better job of getting players than before he arrived. So he's obviously left some sort of positive impression on our front office.

I didn't say we've done a great job at it, just better than what the heck we were doing in the late 90's and early 00s.

[Risen Star]

But what happened after Parcells had had enough? Jerry practically fist pumps to the media, announces that his way didn't work, there will be no more walking on egg shells and hires a complete puppet head coach after hiring his offensive coordinator.

That should be scary to anybody with a clue.

[Doomsday101]

Yes. Jerry made the right call hiring him. He was the proven team builder that we needed to change things.

I also agree that since he's left, we've done a better job of getting players than before he arrived. So he's obviously left some sort of positive impression on our front office.

I didn't say we've done a great job at it, just better than what the heck we were doing in the late 90's and early 00s.

As I said when Jimmy left it was pretty much Lacewell and Jerry making the calls. Jerry is not a stupid man and saw this was not working he then changed how things would be done.

I think since then we have made strides in the right direction and we have also had some not pan out again something all teams deal with but we have continue to lean more on the scouting department working with the HC and if we continue to do business this way I think we will get to where we all want to be.

[ScipioCowboy]

Simple question do GM have final say?


Yes. GMs have the final say

I've long held that it's time to stop describing Jerry as a "meddling owner." He's not. He's the GM and he exercises those powers accordingly.

Consequently, it's time to offer a more apt description for Jerry: A mediocre GM.

[visionary]

Yes. GMs have the final say

I've long held that it's time to stop describing Jerry as a "meddling owner." He's not. He's the GM and he exercises those powers accordingly.

Consequently, it's time to offer a more apt description for Jerry: A bad GM.

FIFY :D

[ScipioCowboy]

FIFY :D

In my opinion, Jerry isn't a bad GM; the Cowboys have a modestly decent regular season record over the past decade.

Unfortunately, their regular season success has not translated into playoff wins or even a team that consistently makes the playoffs, such as the Pats, Steelers, Eagles, etc. And the Cowboys remain one of only three NFC teams that have not made a conference championship game since 2000.

[juck]

Why would Jerry quit, he's been doing such a good job!:rolleyes:
haha :bow: Jerry is the new Al Davis.

[Doomsday101]

haha :bow: Jerry is the new Al Davis.

Davis overall was pretty successful. He was coach of the year in 63 and over the years brought in a lot of misfit who ended up being HOF players. His team went to 5 SB and won 3. For all the knocks Davis gets his Raiders for a long time were considered one of the best franchise in the league

[BraveHeartFan]

I'll never stop watching the team.

But I haven't purchased any tickets or merchandise for myself in nearly ten years.

Never going to happen.

People will flood that stadium all the same. That's his ace in the hole.

He's built a place that is as grand as the game itself and the spectacle of seeing that place is enough of a draw to fill the seats.

It's like Fenway or Wrigley to a certain extent. For different reasons obviously, those places are so grand that they draw a crowd themselves. I don't like the Sox or Cubs but I'm gonna go to both of those places to watch a game at some point in my life.

Hell of a business man.

I agree but that's sort of the point for the people who are always crying about Jerry the GM/Owner.

There is only one way for the folks who say they are so tired of him to get him out of the role(s) they don't like having him in and that's to stop watching, going to, or buying anything Cowboys related.

Until they're ready to pull the trigger and do those things then they need to just forget crying about what Jerry may or may not do right as an owner and GM cause those things are simply never going to change.

[Hostile]

Jerry Jones is center stage in front of the curtain making a fool of himself every year and humiliating good coaches in the process.Funny how I have never heard a single one of those coaches ratify this theory. For all this alleged meddling you think there would be something from those most affected by it. But there isn't. Not even a shred of a hint.

What are you on about? Who has suggested that any owner is ignorant to the greater processes involved in running a football team? We are talking things like talent evaluation and the tiniest details of a team, things Jerry Jones indulges himself in while other owners rarely do. He even does things most general managers rarely do.Jerry isn't involved in talent evaluation. Todd Williams, Judd Garrett, Jason Garrett, Tom Ciskowski, and the scouting and coaching staffs are. If they want someone, Jerry and Stephen go get that person.

I am glad someone finally admitted that all of the owners are heavily involved behind the scenes. It comes down to what I have always accused, people are upset at the visibility so they invent the meddling.

Likewise, as I get amusement out of seeing "the lot of you" buy his con game each and every year. It is like watching a crowd gathering around a snake oil saleman, waving dollar bills.Yeah, except I don't buy anything.

[Hostile]

You avoided the question. If Jerry isn't the problem, what is?

Coaching? Drafting? Personnel?

Those all have to fall at the feet of the owner/GM.

Unless you are just chalking it all up to bad luck. :laugh2:I think that each year the problem is probably something different. I have literally never heard of a football team that has the exact same problems every single year.

No, I am not superstitious.

[Hostile]

Jerry Richardson has a general manager. His name is Marty Hurney.Very good. So let me ask you this, do you believe Jerry Richardson is never in Ron Rivera's business? Do you believe Marty Hurney is never in Ron Rivera's business? If you believe they are, isn't that twice as much "meddling" as the Head Coach in Dallas faces? By your theory it must be.

[Dfense94]

To Jerry defenders... hypotethetical question:You're in a situation where you can purchase an NFL team, and you have to hire a staff. Jerry Jones no longer owns the Cowboys, and submits his resume for your open GM position.You going to hire Jerry?If so, why?If not, why?Be honest.

[Dodger12]

He hired BP and when it failed it falls to Jerry.

So then Jerry made the right call hiring him? I don't hate BP only reason I said fail is using the standard around here which is post season success and SB.

As I said when Jimmy left it was pretty much Lacewell and Jerry making the calls. Jerry is not a stupid man and saw this was not working he then changed how things would be done.

Not to jump in or pick on you Dooms but Jerry didn't hire BP because Jerry's way wasn't working on the football field; Jerry hired BP because he knew he couldn't sell the proposal for a new stadium unless he brought in someone with instant credibility. BP was more successful than many here realize, as he continues to make money for Jerry to this very day with the stadium that BP's credibility helped build.

But what happened after Parcells had had enough? Jerry practically fist pumps to the media, announces that his way didn't work, there will be no more walking on egg shells and hires a complete puppet head coach after hiring his offensive coordinator.

That should be scary to anybody with a clue.

Because Jerry already had his stadium, he didn't need an alpha coach any longer so he reverted back to a soft, puppet coach who was going to ride the wave for a couple of years until Jason was ready.

I'll agree with many here in that Jerry's not dumb; he walked on eggshells because his stadium was on the line and now he makes it sound like he tried to change but that didn't work. A real martyr that Jerry........

[Doomsday101]

Not to jump in or pick on you Dooms but Jerry didn't hire BP because Jerry's way wasn't working on the football field; Jerry hired BP because he knew he couldn't sell the proposal for a new stadium unless he brought in someone with instant credibility. BP was more successful than many here realize, as he continues to make money for Jerry to this very day with the stadium that BP's credibility helped build.



Because Jerry already had his stadium, he didn't need an alpha coach any longer so he reverted back to a soft, puppet coach who was going to ride the wave for a couple of years until Jason was ready.

I'll agree with many here in that Jerry's not dumb; he walked on eggshells because his stadium was on the line and now he makes it sound like he tried to change but that didn't work. A real martyr that Jerry........

That is your take, I don't agree with it.

[visionary]

To Jerry defenders... hypotethetical question:You're in a situation where you can purchase an NFL team, and you have to hire a staff. Jerry Jones no longer owns the Cowboys, and submits his resume for your open GM position.You going to hire Jerry?If so, why?If not, why?Be honest.

i have asked this question before

dont expect an answer

expect a lot of double talk and answering the question with a question or the best response

"he is the owner so what do you want?"

[Dodger12]

That is your take, I don't agree with it.

I knew you wouldn't......

[Dfense94]

lol "Jerry's not the problem! Never has been! It's been different problems every other year! yadda yadda yadda"
Yeah, but would you hire him to GM your team?
Dead silence.

[junk]

Very good. So let me ask you this, do you believe Jerry Richardson is never in Ron Rivera's business? Do you believe Marty Hurney is never in Ron Rivera's business? If you believe they are, isn't that twice as much "meddling" as the Head Coach in Dallas faces? By your theory it must be.

It's one thing to be an owner and be interested in your business. I don't have any issue with that and never implied that.

It's another thing entirely to be an owner and pretend you are qualified to run football operations.

That's the difference between Jerry Jones and Jerry Richardson (and most of the other owners in the league). Jerry Richardson has enough common sense to hire qualified people to run his organization.

"Meddling" isn't the issue. Having an unqualified, incompetent GM is the issue.

[Doomsday101]

lol "Jerry's not the problem! Never has been! It's been different problems every other year! yadda yadda yadda"
Yeah, but would you hire him to GM your team?
Dead silence.

No I wouldn't. Now we deal with the reality not wishful thinking or another hundred thousand threads about Jerry.

He is the Owner/GM that is not going to change so how can it work? It works by hiring people and listening to them and the needs of your HC.

[Alexander]

Funny how I have never heard a single one of those coaches ratify this theory. For all this alleged meddling you think there would be something from those most affected by it. But there isn't. Not even a shred of a hint.

Jimmy Johnson revealing that Jerry Jones specifically wanted him to stage whispering in his ear during the draft so he appeared involved does not ratify it?

There have been several high profile acquisitions during Bill Parcells' regime that indicated he injected some personal favorites on the roster.

Jimmy Johnson himself has ridiculed Jones several times over the years for fancying himself as a football man.

And let's be very clear here. Who exactly is going to be unprofessional and ungracious and reveal Jerry Jones as a clueless meddler? Switzer? Gailey? Parcells? Phillips? Garrett? Most of these people would never take a shot at Jones nor risk virtual career suicide by insulting one of the most powerful men in professional sports.


Jerry isn't involved in talent evaluation. Todd Williams, Judd Garrett, Jason Garrett, Tom Ciskowski, and the scouting and coaching staffs are. If they want someone, Jerry and Stephen go get that person.


Then he is a pretend GM then? That's even worse. And no, I know for a fact he has flexed his muscles to acquire players above and beyond the advice of scouts and staff. He picks and chooses when to get involved, that is the unfortunate part. The most recent example of that was Roy Williams. This information comes directly from a scout currently in the organization who stated that everyone in the department warned Jones repeatedly against trading for him. Jones is involved in talent evaluation, mainly through the fact he also has to handle the cost analysis. He is not on the road like a real general manager, visiting campuses and the like. And that might be part of his problem. He might actually learn something if he did.


Yeah, except I don't buy anything.

Could have fooled me.

[Alexander]

i have asked this question before

dont expect an answer

expect a lot of double talk and answering the question with a question or the best response

"he is the owner so what do you want?"

lol "Jerry's not the problem! Never has been! It's been different problems every other year! yadda yadda yadda"
Yeah, but would you hire him to GM your team?
Dead silence.

Quoted for truth.

[Alexander]

i have asked this question before

dont expect an answer

expect a lot of double talk and answering the question with a question or the best response

"he is the owner so what do you want?"

No I wouldn't. Now we deal with the reality not wishful thinking or another hundred thousand threads about Jerry.

He is the Owner/GM that is not going to change so how can it work? It works by hiring people and listening to them and the needs of your HC.

Excellent work, visionary.

[visionary]

Excellent work, visionary.

:laugh2: :laugh2:
you can see these guys with the same lame excuses a mile away

[BraveHeartFan]

Jimmy Johnson revealing that Jerry Jones specifically wanted him to stage whispering in his ear during the draft so he appeared involved does not ratify it?


Do you have some link or video footage of this? I'd be very interested in reading, or hearing, this interview where this was said cause I've often wondered if Jimmy has ever said anything like this.

And if you tell me to read the books by Skip Bayless then that's not going to be the evidence I was hoping for because, quite frankly, I can't take a lot of what Skip put in his books at face value.



There have been several high profile acquisitions during Bill Parcells' regime that indicated he injected some personal favorites on the roster.


Jimmy Johnson himself has ridiculed Jones several times over the years for fancying himself as a football man.

Here the same as above. I'd be facinated to read these interviews or hear them because I've honestly never seen these things.




And let's be very clear here. Who exactly is going to be unprofessional and ungracious and reveal Jerry Jones as a clueless meddler? Switzer? Gailey? Parcells? Phillips? Garrett? Most of these people would never take a shot at Jones nor risk virtual career suicide by insulting one of the most powerful men in professional sports.

lol! Whose career would be in trouble if they did? You honestly think if Jimmy said it that it would hurt him? Parcells? Whats Jerry going to do make Bill come out of retirement? Switzer? Really? Whats the terrible wrath of Jerry going to do? Make Barry get off his couch?

LOL.

Come on. This is one of the lamest attempts at trying to hide why none of these guys have ever said anything if they felt Jerry got in their way.


Now mind you I'm not saying it's not possible, I always leave room for the possibility cause I am not there and I don't know 100% how anything goes at Valley Ranch, but if this is the defense of why no coach ever says anything its pathetically weak at best.




Then he is a pretend GM then? That's even worse. And no, I know for a fact he has flexed his muscles to acquire players above and beyond the advice of scouts and staff. He picks and chooses when to get involved, that is the unfortunate part. The most recent example of that was Roy Williams. This information comes directly from a scout currently in the organization who stated that everyone in the department warned Jones repeatedly against trading for him. Jones is involved in talent evaluation, mainly through the fact he also has to handle the cost analysis. He is not on the road like a real general manager, visiting campuses and the like. And that might be part of his problem. He might actually learn something if he did.


What scout informed you of this that the scouting department told him not to trade for Roy? This is information that can actually be verified or another one of the classic Cowboyszone moments when someone claims to have gotten the information from a friend whose sisters, best friends, boyfriends hair dresser told them that they know a guy who knows a guy in the Dallas area who once dated a woman who slept with a guy in the scouting department, and that's how I know this information is fact?

[BraveHeartFan]

Excellent work, visionary.

:laugh2: :laugh2:
you can see these guys with the same lame excuses a mile away


Lets all take a moment to give these guys a pat on the back and a internet high five for patting one another on the back because they noticed, and pointed out, one of the most obvious things on the internet when it comes to conversations about Jerry Jones.


Hey guys in other breaking, world beating, amazing psychic news...the sky is blue and water is wet!

[Hostile]

To Jerry defenders... hypotethetical question:You're in a situation where you can purchase an NFL team, and you have to hire a staff. Jerry Jones no longer owns the Cowboys, and submits his resume for your open GM position.You going to hire Jerry?If so, why?If not, why?Be honest.No, because I would do it myself.

[Hostile]

It's one thing to be an owner and be interested in your business. I don't have any issue with that and never implied that.

It's another thing entirely to be an owner and pretend you are qualified to run football operations.

That's the difference between Jerry Jones and Jerry Richardson (and most of the other owners in the league). Jerry Richardson has enough common sense to hire qualified people to run his organization.

"Meddling" isn't the issue. Having an unqualified, incompetent GM is the issue.I don't know how many times I have to say this, Jerry runs all operations, but he is not the idea man nor the brains behind the football operations. Tom Ciskowski, Judd Garrett, Todd Williams, and Stephen Jones as well as Garrett, his staff, and the scouts are more hands on with the football operations than Jerry by far.

You want the honest to Pete truth of Jerry's football involvement? Jimmy Johnson said he would tell Jerry who he wanted and Jerry would have the football guys make it work. Jerry is the wallet.

Bill Parcells said Jerry frequently asked him what he needed and once he told him what he wanted Jerry set out to make that happen...by giving his football men assignments. Wade Phillips wanted Paul Pasqualoni on his staff, Jerry made it happen that very day.

Jerry never goes after a player without the input of the scouts and coaches.

Jimmy Johnson described him as a dream boss. Not one of his former head coaches or current coach said that he ever meddled in their football affairs, and they all say he is a great guy to work for because he wants to give you whatever you want.

But I shouldn't believe his former coaches, they are all liars. I should believe fans on a forum and a media cabal who give me stuff about how golf interrupts Romo's football preparations and other wise and noted football observations.

I don't think so. I'm going to listen to the football guys.

[Hostile]

Jimmy Johnson revealing that Jerry Jones specifically wanted him to stage whispering in his ear during the draft so he appeared involved does not ratify it?Never heard this story. How about you point me to a link of it?

There have been several high profile acquisitions during Bill Parcells' regime that indicated he injected some personal favorites on the roster.I agree. Bill had his guys, told Jerry he wanted them, and Jerry set out to bring them in for his Head Coach.

Jimmy Johnson himself has ridiculed Jones several times over the years for fancying himself as a football man.He has also indicated he would rather work for Jerry than any other owner.

And let's be very clear here. Who exactly is going to be unprofessional and ungracious and reveal Jerry Jones as a clueless meddler? Switzer? Gailey? Parcells? Phillips? Garrett? Most of these people would never take a shot at Jones nor risk virtual career suicide by insulting one of the most powerful men in professional sports.Ah yes, the "I have no evidence to support it, but they must be lying" theory. I wondered when it would show up.

Then he is a pretend GM then? That's even worse. And no, I know for a fact he has flexed his muscles to acquire players above and beyond the advice of scouts and staff. He picks and chooses when to get involved, that is the unfortunate part. The most recent example of that was Roy Williams. This information comes directly from a scout currently in the organization who stated that everyone in the department warned Jones repeatedly against trading for him. Jones is involved in talent evaluation, mainly through the fact he also has to handle the cost analysis. He is not on the road like a real general manager, visiting campuses and the like. And that might be part of his problem. He might actually learn something if he did.That is partially true. There were some for Williams, some against it. Jerry did break the tie and paid more than I thought he would.

Could have fooled me.Hell, that isn't hard. You buy anything as long as it negative against the football team. Funny how two of our Triplets Hall of Famers asked this bumbling, incompetent man to present them. Funny how this bumbling, incompetent man has a team assembled right now that is acquiring solid football talent. Funny how this bumbling, incompetent man doesn't have a single former employee supporting these spurious suppositions.

[Dfense94]

Is this board owned by the Cowboys? That would explain the admins with these stances. I can't honestly believe educated football fans would be so pro-Jerry otherwise.

[Dodger12]

Never heard this story. How about you point me to a link of it?

Come on now Hos. You're a virtual historian of the Cowboys and you're saying you've never heard of this, even it was a "rumor". Sorry, but this isn't any great revelation.

But anyway, if I recall, it was mentioned in Jeff Pearlman's book, Boys Will be Boys, and it was a story allegedly attributed to Jimmy Johnson.

[Hostile]

Is this board owned by the Cowboys? That would explain the admins with these stances. I can't honestly believe educated football fans would be so pro-Jerry otherwise.I'm not pro-Jerry.

No, this site is not owned by the Cowboys, and even if it were I would speak my mind. The bottom line is it is foolish to think one owner in the NFL is hands on and the rest of them aren't. One guy in this thread even admitted that the other owners are involved, just not visible.

You hate the visibility of our owner. Why not just confess to that and drop these fairy tales about one guy is the problem? That's just plain silly to think these guys are letting other people handle all their money with no input. It's beyond silly.

[junk]

I don't know how many times I have to say this, Jerry runs all operations, but he is not the idea man nor the brains behind the football operations. Tom Ciskowski, Judd Garrett, Todd Williams, and Stephen Jones as well as Garrett, his staff, and the scouts are more hands on with the football operations than Jerry by far.

You want the honest to Pete truth of Jerry's football involvement? Jimmy Johnson said he would tell Jerry who he wanted and Jerry would have the football guys make it work. Jerry is the wallet.

Bill Parcells said Jerry frequently asked him what he needed and once he told him what he wanted Jerry set out to make that happen...by giving his football men assignments. Wade Phillips wanted Paul Pasqualoni on his staff, Jerry made it happen that very day.

Jerry never goes after a player without the input of the scouts and coaches.

Jimmy Johnson described him as a dream boss. Not one of his former head coaches or current coach said that he ever meddled in their football affairs, and they all say he is a great guy to work for because he wants to give you whatever you want.

But I shouldn't believe his former coaches, they are all liars. I should believe fans on a forum and a media cabal who give me stuff about how golf interrupts Romo's football preparations and other wise and noted football observations.

I don't think so. I'm going to listen to the football guys.

You can boil your entire post down to that sentence. 1 playoff win since 1996.

No matter what you think Jerry does or doesn't do, the bottom line is that he is the man responsible for all football operations. His performance would have gotten him fired anywhere that he didn't own the team.

The only times that the team has had success while he has been an owner has been when he has ceded control to a strong head coach/personnel man.

[Hostile]

You can boil your entire post down to that sentence. 1 playoff win since 1996.

No matter what you think Jerry does or doesn't do, the bottom line is that he is the man responsible for all football operations. His performance would have gotten him fired anywhere that he didn't own the team.

The only times that the team has had success while he has been an owner has been when he has ceded control to a strong head coach/personnel man.I've never said differently.

Every owner in the NFL is hands on in some way or another. That sort of excludes the Packers, but Mark Murphy is highly involved.

You guys act like they just get out of the way and let the real GMs handle things. That is Grade A, number one bull cookies. These guys have millions of dollars in investments involved here. No one is so philanthropic that they are not going to be involved.

That is the fairy tale that I object to here. Furthermore, every GM is involved too.

I tolerate what we have here because I honestly do believe Ciskowski, Todd Williams, and Stephen Jones are good football guys and I know for a fact they, along with Judd Garrett and the coaching staff make the decisions. I am not guessing on that, I know it.

I eased off when Larry Lacewell was gone. I eased off more when Parcells arrived.

I do not like the lack of success any more than any of you do, but I'll be damned if I am going to grab a torch or a pitchfork and hunt witches with you when I know better.

Point blank, if we win a Super Bowl again it will not be because of Jerry Jones. It will be in the sense that he hired the Coaches, but he has nothing to do with what happens on the football field. NOTHING. I can't say it any louder than that.

I don't give a flying damn about the commentary that if he was not the GM he would have fired the GM. I don't care that he is the GM because I know that who the GM is doesn't really matter.

I've asked people for two years to explain to me how the Bears won a Super Bowl with Virginia McCaskey, but not under George Halas. If you want the bare bones truth, there has never been a better football guy than Papa Bear. If who the GM was mattered all that much he'd have won one and she and her son whom she appointed President of Football Operations wouldn't have.

I believe in this coach more than any coach since Jimmy Johnson. That's right, more than Parcells. If we win a Super Bowl it will be because the players come together. The coaching staff will have something to do with that. The scouting department will. Jerry will. But all of that is minor in comparison to the players.

I have never heard a college or pro football team give credit to the AD or the GM for a victory. Because they don't deserve any credit for it. It belongs on the field with the players.

So it really doesn't bother me that people think I am defending Jerry. I'm not and I am comfortable with that fact. I am simply telling all of you that the situation in Dallas is not really different than any other football team except for one thing.

Jerry is visible.

The sooner people realize that they are jealous of that, tired of it, or whatever emotion they have is a good day. It is a day I hope we stop hunting for the "constant."

You asked what the problem is that we haven't had enough post seaosn success in these years. Quite simply, at times we were good enough to win we didn't perform. Many times we weren't good enough in the first place.

That happens all around the NFL, not just Dallas. That is my point and always has been and it in no way excuses Jerry Jones. It simply points out the truth of the fact that there is no evidence of meddling, but plenty of media hints at it.

Baa baa baa.

[BraveHeartFan]

Come on now Hos. You're a virtual historian of the Cowboys and you're saying you've never heard of this, even it was a "rumor". Sorry, but this isn't any great revelation.

But anyway, if I recall, it was mentioned in Jeff Pearlman's book, Boys Will be Boys, and it was a story allegedly attributed to Jimmy Johnson.



A rumorr that has not ever been backed up or confirmed by the people they're supposedly attributed to in a book by a writer who had no possible actual knowledge of day to day 2orkings in an nfl team. Thus why they always have to go with hear say and rumor.

Id love to see the interviews where any of these people said these things themselves. That would be pretty entertaining.

Oh and troy aikman is gay. No really its true because skip bayless said barry switzer and his friends supposedly told him that troy was gay. Has to be true because skip put it in a book.

[Risen Star]

Most owners definitely do allow the GM to determine the personnel moves. Otherwise there'd be no point in having a GM.

The lines are blurred in Dallas because they're owned by a lunatic.

The bottom line in all of this is a quality GM is a boon to any football team. IMO, there isn't a more important individual in the entire organization. We don't have one. We have a guy who needs others to steer him in the right direction.

That's a pretty significant handicap and reason #1 why we haven't won anything in nearly two decades.

[junk]

So it really doesn't bother me that people think I am defending Jerry. I'm not and I am comfortable with that fact. I am simply telling all of you that the situation in Dallas is not really different than any other football team except for one thing.

Jerry is visible.

The sooner people realize that they are jealous of that, tired of it, or whatever emotion they have is a good day. It is a day I hope we stop hunting for the "constant."

You asked what the problem is that we haven't had enough post seaosn success in these years. Quite simply, at times we were good enough to win we didn't perform. Many times we weren't good enough in the first place.

That happens all around the NFL, not just Dallas. That is my point and always has been and it in no way excuses Jerry Jones. It simply points out the truth of the fact that there is no evidence of meddling, but plenty of media hints at it.

Baa baa baa.

The situation is different though. Jerry isn't just "involved", he is the GM. He is making decisions about the roster, the draft, the contracts being signed and the culture of the team.

Robert Kraft is a very involved owner. He is very visible. His players love him. He isn't making personnel decisions though.

That is one of the key differences between Jerry and other owners. They defer to the people who have put in the hours crafting careers as football guys. Jerry just jumped to the top of the food chain without putting in any of the time required to perfect his craft. It shows.

It has nothing to do with media reports. My opinion is based upon watching the Cowboys (and the decisions they've made) since Jerry took over the team along with the comments Jerry has made over the years.

[Hostile]

The situation is different though. Jerry isn't just "involved", he is the GM. He is making decisions about the roster, the draft, the contracts being signed and the culture of the team.

Robert Kraft is a very involved owner. He is very visible. His players love him. He isn't making personnel decisions though.

That is one of the key differences between Jerry and other owners. They defer to the people who have put in the hours crafting careers as football guys. Jerry just jumped to the top of the food chain without putting in any of the time required to perfect his craft. It shows.

It has nothing to do with media reports. My opinion is based upon watching the Cowboys (and the decisions they've made) since Jerry took over the team along with the comments Jerry has made over the years.He ratifies them, same as Jerry Jones. Bet your bouquet of tribute roses on it. It is silly to think these guys have limited involvement in multi-million dollar investments. Just plain silly.

You wouldn't do that if you had millions or billions invested. Come on. I don't buy that for a second. Yet you want me to believe NFL owners other than Jerry do?

No sir.

By the way, I cannot help but wonder how this forum would react if Jerry were doing things like Clint Murchison did? You know, spreading bird seed on the field at the Redskins stadium, sneaking 2 crates full of 75 chickens into the stadium with the intent to turn them loose at halftime. Or how about hiring 2 acrobats to dress in chicken costumes and run around the field the very next year and banners rolling down exclaiming the word "chickens."

Ya'll talk about a circus, but compared to some of Clint's gags, Jerry is a choir boy.

I can just see the friggin' uproar if Jerry bought the rights to Hail to the Redskins and held little Danny hostage. Or if he bribed a high ranking government official to investigate the Redskins. Fans here would hit the roof. But Clint is revered for these things. Rightly so. Of course anything that embarrasses the Redskins gets me approval.

Face it fans, the reason they call us America's Team is because we draw attention. Jerry feeds that. No doubt about it.

If he didn't they'd find something else. There will always be something else. Like golf, Cabo, white house, JFK's assassination, Monica Seles on the sidelines, North Dallas 40, sex in the mens bathroom posted on youtube...and on and on and on from the genesis of this team to recent years.

If you want the circus to leave you root for the wrong team. We've always had the spotlight.

[Hostile]

Most owners definitely do allow the GM to determine the personnel moves. Otherwise there'd be no point in having a GM.

The lines are blurred in Dallas because they're owned by a lunatic.

The bottom line in all of this is a quality GM is a boon to any football team. IMO, there isn't a more important individual in the entire organization. We don't have one. We have a guy who needs others to steer him in the right direction.

That's a pretty significant handicap and reason #1 why we haven't won anything in nearly two decades.Determine them? Yes. Follow through with them without their go ahead?

Naw, not buying that one man.

[CCBoy]

Most owners definitely do allow the GM to determine the personnel moves. Otherwise there'd be no point in having a GM.

The lines are blurred in Dallas because they're owned by a lunatic.

The bottom line in all of this is a quality GM is a boon to any football team. IMO, there isn't a more important individual in the entire organization. We don't have one. We have a guy who needs others to steer him in the right direction.

That's a pretty significant handicap and reason #1 why we haven't won anything in nearly two decades.

You know that? Just how many private meetings between owners and management have you set in upon? As if there is no line of accountability in a world that ownership IS the bottom line for that responsibility. Not the administrator for their business. If we miss it, stupidity at any level doesn't relieve the mark of top American sports venue in the field. The very top producing franchise in sports.

Don't kid one's self into believing stupidity enters that sustained formula at any point. Loyalties may trump function at certain junctures, but excuses of facility maintainer, media guru, or simply bumbling idiot aren't valid in a comparison. Then there are defineable directions in team productions over the past period from Bill Parcells foreward. Oh, and two annual awardings of a top five GM by the media itself, might be an indicator as well.

Take it for what it's worth. One can always take a stance that the sky is falling, and attempt to rub that reference point upon a comment by Hos. But simply, that doesn't make it right. Or, Hos without appropriate viewpoint as well.

[CCBoy]

He ratifies them, same as Jerry Jones. Bet your bouquet of tribute roses on it. It is silly to think these guys have limited involvement in multi-million dollar investments. Just plain silly.

You wouldn't do that if you had millions or billions invested. Come on. I don't buy that for a second. Yet you want me to believe NFL owners other than Jerry do?

No sir.

By the way, I cannot help but wonder how this forum would react if Jerry were doing things like Clint Murchison did? You know, spreading bird seed on the field at the Redskins stadium, sneaking 2 crates full of 75 chickens into the stadium with the intent to turn them loose at halftime. Or how about hiring 2 acrobats to dress in chicken costumes and run around the field the very next year and banners rolling down exclaiming the word "chickens."

Ya'll talk about a circus, but compared to some of Clint's gags, Jerry is a choir boy.

I can just see the friggin' uproar if Jerry bought the rights to Hail to the Redskins and held little Danny hostage. Or if he bribed a high ranking government official to investigate the Redskins. Fans here would hit the roof. But Clint is revered for these things. Rightly so. Of course anything that embarrasses the Redskins gets me approval.

Face it fans, the reason they call us America's Team is because we draw attention. Jerry feeds that. No doubt about it.

If he didn't they'd find something else. There will always be something else. Like golf, Cabo, white house, JFK's assassination, Monica Seles on the sidelines, North Dallas 40, sex in the mens bathroom posted on youtube...and on and on and on from the genesis of this team to recent years.

If you want the circus to leave you root for the wrong team. We've always had the spotlight.

Hos, quickly enroll this burn barrel group, in a quick study course in backboard undertakings by the Redskins and Cardinals. Oh, and don't forget the refresher course on the Raiders, Buffalo, Cincinnatti, and Cleveland.

[Dodger12]

A rumorr that has not ever been backed up or confirmed by the people they're supposedly attributed to in a book by a writer who had no possible actual knowledge of day to day 2orkings in an nfl team. Thus why they always have to go with hear say and rumor.

Id love to see the interviews where any of these people said these things themselves. That would be pretty entertaining.

Oh and troy aikman is gay. No really its true because skip bayless said barry switzer and his friends supposedly told him that troy was gay. Has to be true because skip put it in a book.

Nothing anyone posts or references is going to change your mind. But this was common knowledge and had been discussed during the Jerry and Jimmy break up and Hos knows it. Saying that he never heard it and asking for a link, as you just did, is a cop out. Well, I'm providing a link so go ahead and find more excuses.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005069/index.htm

Everyone from Laredo to Little Rock knew that Johnson and Jones were on the outs, but how could it have come to this? How could Jerry have pushed Jimmy overboard, with a loaded team trying for an unprecedented third straight Super Bowl win?

The answer begins with a story Johnson told to a table of Dallas staff alumni, including Arizona Cardinal assistant general manager Bob Ackles, Chicago Bear coach Dave Wannstedt, Washington Redskin coach Norv Turner and their spouses, at a party during the NFL meetings in Orlando on March 21. In the midst of Johnson's narrative, Jones approached the group, drink in hand, to offer a toast.

Johnson's story was this: The day before the 1992 NFL draft, the Dallas brain-trust—Johnson, Jones and Ackles—formulated a trade to offer the Cleveland Browns. Late that day, after Jones had left the office, Cleveland coach Bill Belichick called back to say he would do the deal, and the Cowboys announced it. On draft day Jones came to the office upset that he hadn't been called when the deal was confirmed, and he asked to see Johnson. Their meeting droned on until, with only five minutes left before the start of the draft, Jones told Johnson, "You know the ESPN camera is in the draft room today. So whenever we're about to make a pick, you look at me, like we're talking about it." In other words, Make me look as if I'm a big player here, even though we all know I'm not making the picks.

[junk]

He ratifies them, same as Jerry Jones. Bet your bouquet of tribute roses on it. It is silly to think these guys have limited involvement in multi-million dollar investments. Just plain silly.

You wouldn't do that if you had millions or billions invested. Come on. I don't buy that for a second. Yet you want me to believe NFL owners other than Jerry do?

Oh I have no doubt that Kraft signs off on contract extensions. If he is signing the checks, I imagine he is briefed on it. However, I doubt he is the one determining who should be getting a new contract and what fair market value is.

Based upon Jerry's comments....and some of the contracts he has handed out....I'm pretty sure he is.

I also doubt Kraft is in the draft room on draft day shuffling around guys on the draft board either. He isn't scouting free agents or draft picks.


By the way, I cannot help but wonder how this forum would react if Jerry were doing things like Clint Murchison did? You know, spreading bird seed on the field at the Redskins stadium, sneaking 2 crates full of 75 chickens into the stadium with the intent to turn them loose at halftime. Or how about hiring 2 acrobats to dress in chicken costumes and run around the field the very next year and banners rolling down exclaiming the word "chickens."

Ya'll talk about a circus, but compared to some of Clint's gags, Jerry is a choir boy.

I can just see the friggin' uproar if Jerry bought the rights to Hail to the Redskins and held little Danny hostage. Or if he bribed a high ranking government official to investigate the Redskins. Fans here would hit the roof. But Clint is revered for these things. Rightly so. Of course anything that embarrasses the Redskins gets me approval.

Face it fans, the reason they call us America's Team is because we draw attention. Jerry feeds that. No doubt about it.

What does that have to do with anything? I don't really care what he does as an owner. Murchison was an owner. He had Brandt, Landry and Schramm to deal with football business.

I've strictly been talking football. My concern about Jerry is his ability to be a GM....not the orchestrator of the three ring circus. He's great at that and I'd be more than happy if he spent more time with that type of nonsense and stayed away from the football side of things.

In my opinion, part of the reason he fails as a GM (besides being woefully underqualified) is that he doesn't devote the necessary time to it. He's busy being an owner and a promoter. He wears too many hats.


If he didn't they'd find something else. There will always be something else. Like golf, Cabo, white house, JFK's assassination, Monica Seles on the sidelines, North Dallas 40, sex in the mens bathroom posted on youtube...and on and on and on from the genesis of this team to recent years.

If you want the circus to leave you root for the wrong team. We've always had the spotlight.

Again, you are getting confused on the point I am trying to make. I don't really care what Jones does as an owner. He's fine at that. He makes a ton of money, the Cowboys brand is phenomenally successful, the team has a beautiful stadium....you could go on and on about his success as an owner. Cage dancers, Rowdy, giant TV screens, works of art in the stadium.....don't care.

However, you seem to be unable to differentiate that type of success with football success. All I care about is winning in the playoffs and getting to (and winning) the Super Bowl. Jerry the GM isn't doing a very good job at that. That's where my criticism is directed and I can't see how anyone can argue with his results. Mediocre is gracious.

It's a moot point anyway. Jerry isn't going to change. He brought in Parcells long enough to get public support for his new stadium and that's the last time he'll cede control like that. Just frustrating as a fan knowing that the owner/GM is handicapping the team by wearing both hats.

[Risen Star]

Oh I have no doubt that Kraft signs off on contract extensions. If he is signing the checks, I imagine he is briefed on it. However, I doubt he is the one determining who should be getting a new contract and what fair market value is.

And that's it right there. They have a budget, but they dictate where that money is spent. They make the personnel calls. Not the owner.

If a GM didn't have that kind of stroke, Jerry wouldn't have named himself the GM and refused to give it up all these years. He knows if he hires a GM, he loses that power.

And playing fantasy football always comes before winning with teh Jerrah.

[newlander]

er, Jerrah is a JOKE to everyone but the minority of guys in his fan club that idolize him for being a billionaire: just LOOK at the guy and the way he carries himself. All his face time with the EVIL media that Hos cluelessly blames for smearing 'poor mr. jones':rolleyes: is bad enough, but the kicker is what he SAYS on a consistent basis: dude is a complete arsehole. From being 'scared' of the iggles to giving on the field injury updates to Red and then feebly trying to justify it later.....he's just a complete out of control narcissistic egomaniac. To try and defend him MUST be exhausting...keep trying if you must Hos, but it's an impossible task. :cool:

[Royal Laegotti]

Never heard this story. How about you point me to a link of it?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005069/index.htm

Hos here's the link. Can't believe you never heard this story. Selective hearing maybe? Anyway Peter King wrote this, he is a pretty good journalist and Jimmy is directly quoted about this story.

Another interesting tidbit in this story is that Jimmy had sole control of all the personnel moves in his contract.

Jimmy: "The fifth was to put all our efforts into one year. I even said I'd change the language in my contract, [which specifies] that I have sole control of all personnel moves. Then after one year I'd be free to go where I wanted."

Why would Jimmy want that written in his contract from the get go in his partnership with Jerry, this is BEFORE they got started. Could it be that Jimmy knew Jerry would want to be too hands on with the team? Did Jimmy know Jerry would want to try to be a "football guy" before the rest of the world did? Hmm! Let there be no more doubt about who was the architect of the Herchel Walker trade.

I have no doubt you'll give your best effort in discrediting me or Peter King or Jimmy or even the Pope, so have at it.

[Royal Laegotti]

By the way, I cannot help but wonder how this forum would react if Jerry were doing things like Clint Murchison did? You know, spreading bird seed on the field at the Redskins stadium, sneaking 2 crates full of 75 chickens into the stadium with the intent to turn them loose at halftime. Or how about hiring 2 acrobats to dress in chicken costumes and run around the field the very next year and banners rolling down exclaiming the word "chickens."

Ya'll talk about a circus, but compared to some of Clint's gags, Jerry is a choir boy.

I can just see the friggin' uproar if Jerry bought the rights to Hail to the Redskins and held little Danny hostage. Or if he bribed a high ranking government official to investigate the Redskins. Fans here would hit the roof. But Clint is revered for these things. Rightly so. Of course anything that embarrasses the Redskins gets me approval.

.

Lets face it when a person is part of a CONSISTANT winner they get the benefit of the doubt. The only thing the Jerry run Cowboys (post Jimmy) have been consistant at is inconsistancy.

[Hostile]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005069/index.htm

Hos here's the link. Can't believe you never heard this story. Selective hearing maybe? Anyway Peter King wrote this, he is a pretty good journalist and Jimmy is directly quoted about this story.

Another interesting tidbit in this story is that Jimmy had sole control of all the personnel moves in his contract.

Jimmy: "The fifth was to put all our efforts into one year. I even said I'd change the language in my contract, [which specifies] that I have sole control of all personnel moves. Then after one year I'd be free to go where I wanted."

Why would Jimmy want that written in his contract from the get go in his partnership with Jerry, this is BEFORE they got started. Could it be that Jimmy knew Jerry would want to be too hands on with the team? Did Jimmy know Jerry would want to try to be a "football guy" before the rest of the world did? Hmm! Let there be no more doubt about who was the architect of the Herchel Walker trade.

I have no doubt you'll give your best effort in discrediting me or Peter King or Jimmy or even the Pope, so have at it.Thank you. The rest of that article I had heard. The whispering story, I had not. Nice job of paranoia on the discrediting you comment. I asked for a link to that story and you provided it.

For the record once again, I was against the hiring of Barry Switzer and he is probably the figure in Dallas' History whom I least respect if at all. Let me put it this way. If we are playing Survivor and it is down to my vote for either Mike Vanderjagt or Barry Switzer to leave the island, Barry is going home. I said the day he was hired that it would be our downfall. I was on the very same bash Jerry bandwagon you guys are on from that day until the day Bill Parcells got hired.

The only slack I gave Jerry from the time Jimmy Left until that day was when Michael Irvin got injured and Jerry left the game to be with him so Michael's wife was aware of what was going on.

Let me repeat that, the only slack I gave him.

The culture in Dallas changed after Parcells got here and it is still changed. We've made solid draft decisions more often than blunders. Now someone is going to point out 2009 yet again. The two drafts since that one are turning out great. So something is working.

Prior to the Super Bowl in Dallas last year Jimmy and Jerry and several of our players had a segment together and Jimmy was pretty straight forward about Jerry. He clearly said that Jerry never meddled in his affairs.

You take that however you want, but none of the man's coaches have said that he did, yet the media has reported that he does for years.

What annoys me are the intimations that things are unique in Dallas. That other GMs are not in their Head Coach's ear. Or that Owners are not wanting details of what is going on with their investments. That is patently false.

I don't care who the GM is if the roster has talent, and I am sorry to everyone who thinks we suck, but I see talent on our roster. To me that says that the football guys (whom I continually name as Todd Williams, Tom Ciskowski, Judd Garrett, the scouts, the staff, and Stephen Jones) are doing their jobs well. Notice that I am NOT giving Jerry Jones credit there. That is something you guys continually fail to grasp when you say I defend him.

Am I defending him when I say he is not involved? That is a really strange defense.

The point is, the Dallas Cowboys are not some shoddy run organization at all. In fact, if you ask around league circles they are one of the best run organizations. Agents prefer to deal with us than other clubs, meaning they push clients towards us. No team execs out there laugh at the Cowboys. No, that is reserved for a media who don't know football worth a fiddler's damn, and the sheep who believe what they have to say.

I want you to think about this for just a minute. If Jerry is some huge friggin' incompetent, why did other owners turn to him during the CBA negotiations? Why was his arrival the one reported as big news? Not Kraft.

Whether you guys want to admit it or not the hillbilly is a shrewd business man and no one within the realms of professional football will ever tell you differently.

He gets compared to Al Davis at times. I consider that a compliment, because Al was one of the shrewdest guys there ever was. But let me point out one huge difference. Al Davis acted as his own head of scouting as well as the GM. Jerry doesn't. (Please note how I am not complimenting Jerry by pointing this out.)

I would also like to point out that now and then, picks Al made (Nnamdi) that people laughed at turned out to be rather good. However, Al did draft players (Russell) his coaches and staff openly admit they did not want. The closest you can come to a situation like that in Dallas is Parcells wanting Spears over Ware and Jerry backing the scouting department over Parcells.

Parcells himself did not complain about not being allowed to buy the groceries as he did in New England, although I think in fairness that was when Victor Kiam was the owner not Bob Kraft. I am not 100% sure without looking at my notes.

We haven't won like we all want us to. Boo friggin' hoo.

Lots of teams go through cycles like that. It is pompous of us to think we are immune to one just because we are the Cowboys. From the time our stars started declining until Parcells arrived, I was critical of our direction and how we are run. But I started asking questions from people around the team every chance I got and unlike some, I pay attention when somebody says something.

Like for instance that Jimmy Johnson says Stephen Jones is a legit football man. But what do we have around this place now? Doubts being hurled at Stephen Jones because I have dared to let people know he is more hands on in football matters. So you want to talk about undermining Jimmy, start where it really happens, because according to him Stephen is great at what he does.

Are we in cap hell? Not even a little bit despite a new CBA that really handicapped only one football team. I wonder how many people can admit that. Stephen is a brilliant guy. We are in good hands.

Does Jerry drive this ship? Of course he does. Just like every other owner drives theirs. Some have GMs, 2 don't. The job of the GM is to run the scouting department, hire the coaches, and manage the finances.

Not in cap hell. Not losing our star players to Free Agency and cap cuts we are forced to take.

I like our Head Coach, and I even am starting to like the spawn of Buddy, though he is the punching bag now.

I love our team. Sue me. I love these guys who are now labeled as choir boys by some frustrated fans. They are a couple of pieces away from being a long term contender. And people want to blow it up?

That's just plain stupid, but frustration has never been accused of being the harbinger of rational thought.

Bottom line, does Jerry Jones pretend to be a football guy or is he a football guy? He's a businessman who has good football people. Him being GM isn't our issue. It hasn't been since Larry Lacewell left and he hired Jeff Ireland and then got Parcells. Whether people want to admit it or not, Wade Phillips was a good football guy. Yeah, he was too soft. But he knows talent.

We now are aiming towards a young, energetic coaching staff looking to build for the long haul. I promise you all I am not wrong on Jason Garrett. I do not plant my feet this hard on something unless I have good reason.

Yeah, the team makes mistakes. So do other teams. Yeah, we've lost some games we should have won. It happened to Jimmy and Bill too, and even my hero Tom Landry.

There are no fairy tales in the NFL. The idea that Jerry is some bumbling guy with a flesh and blood fantasy football team is a fairy tale. But by all means continue to buy it if you wish. Slowly but surely every claim I have made about how this organization is run is proving to be accurate. The only question is, how long does it take people to realize I was never guessing in the first place? I asked.

[Alexander]

Never heard this story. How about you point me to a link of it?

Another poster supplied you the link. Hopefully you read and absorbed it.


I agree. Bill had his guys, told Jerry he wanted them, and Jerry set out to bring them in for his Head Coach.


Jerry Jones also had players like Eddie George and Peerless Price (possibly even Owens) signed pretty much with objection and Coach Parcells played them accordingly and eventually got them off the roster.

Hell, that isn't hard. You buy anything as long as it negative against the football team. Funny how two of our Triplets Hall of Famers asked this bumbling, incompetent man to present them. Funny how this bumbling, incompetent man has a team assembled right now that is acquiring solid football talent. Funny how this bumbling, incompetent man doesn't have a single former employee supporting these spurious suppositions.

It has nothing to do with him as a person. By all accounts, he is generous and extremely loyal. That would be a big reason why he was asked to present them.

Our Hall of Famers inviting him to present them speaks nothing to the way he performed his job as he has run this team into the ground since he has assumed more control after Coach Johnson left.

And as for the players or former coaches, again, would you cross one of the most powerful men in the sport, one who paid you nicely and treated you well? Of course not. Most people are not going to burn bridges like that.

[BlueStar22]

just because something is yours doesn't mean you should be able to do whatever the hell you want. Stephen needs to slap him often.

[Alexander]

What scout informed you of this that the scouting department told him not to trade for Roy? This is information that can actually be verified or another one of the classic Cowboyszone moments when someone claims to have gotten the information from a friend whose sisters, best friends, boyfriends hair dresser told them that they know a guy who knows a guy in the Dallas area who once dated a woman who slept with a guy in the scouting department, and that's how I know this information is fact?
There are plenty of tall tales told around here and I assure you this is reliable. I am not someone who likes to make up stories to impress people on this board.

[visionary]

Most owners definitely do allow the GM to determine the personnel moves. Otherwise there'd be no point in having a GM.

The lines are blurred in Dallas because they're owned by a lunatic.

The bottom line in all of this is a quality GM is a boon to any football team. IMO, there isn't a more important individual in the entire organization. We don't have one. We have a guy who needs others to steer him in the right direction.

That's a pretty significant handicap and reason #1 why we haven't won anything in nearly two decades.

you're wasting your time

all you will get are denials, distractions, and strawmen

all we need are yes/no answers to 2 simple questions:

1) has there been any team in the free agency era where the owner is the GM and they have either been consistent contenders or won the championship?

2) do all teams that are consistent contenders and have won championships in the free agency era have a GM that is separate from the owner?

then no further discussion is needed because history and evidence have shown the way of how it can and should be done and how it should not be done

yet, we continue the way of mediocrity and excuses abound by intelligent people

there is a reason succesful teams do things a certain way
because it is proven

shakes head...

[Royal Laegotti]

Thank you. The rest of that article I had heard. The whispering story, I had not. Nice job of paranoia on the discrediting you comment. I asked for a link to that story and you provided it.

No biggie. ;)

[Alexander]

Hos, quickly enroll this burn barrel group, in a quick study course in backboard undertakings by the Redskins and Cardinals. Oh, and don't forget the refresher course on the Raiders, Buffalo, Cincinnatti, and Cleveland.
I am glad you mentioned these teams because that is the exact company we have kept in the last fifteen plus years since Jerry Jones has been exercising his current management structure with him at the top. Wait, as much as the Bidwells are ridiculed here, they have something we haven't even come close to sniffing.

[Royal Laegotti]

you're wasting your time

all you will get are denials, distractions, and strawmen

all we need are yes/no answers to 2 simple questions:

1) has there been any team in the free agency era where the owner is the GM and they have either been consistent contenders or won the championship?

2) do all teams that are consistent contenders and have won championships in the free agency era have a GM that is separate from the owner?

then no further discussion is needed because history and evidence have shown the way of how it can and should be done and how it should not be done

yet, we continue the way of mediocrity and excuses abound by intelligent people

there is a reason succesful teams do things a certain way
because it is proven

shakes head...

The other day one poster said it best, "when the owner is the GM that leaves no room for accountability." No one in the league would hire Jerry to do that job if he were available.

[Alexander]

What annoys me are the intimations that things are unique in Dallas. That other GMs are not in their Head Coach's ear. Or that Owners are not wanting details of what is going on with their investments. That is patently false.

They are unique. Only Mike Brown has a management structure and style where he is the dual owner/GM. Please stop with the dubious stance that people are asserting that owners all stand around and do nothing. Only an imbecile would assert that. The problem is with the model with an owner and GM being one and the same and the lack of accountability that generates.


I don't care who the GM is if the roster has talent, and I am sorry to everyone who thinks we suck, but I see talent on our roster.

You should care. Talent is a relative thing. We have been considered "talented" for years. Results are all that counts. San Diego has a talented roster, yet A.J. Smith could very well be fired after this year. The thing is there is a separate owner making the call on accountability. We do not have that.


I want you to think about this for just a minute. If Jerry is some huge friggin' incompetent, why did other owners turn to him during the CBA negotiations? Why was his arrival the one reported as big news? Not Kraft.


CBA negotiations have nothing to do with the ability to evaluate talent, which of course is necessary to break "ties". Unless he flips a coin, which is entirely possible.

Whether you guys want to admit it or not the hillbilly is a shrewd business man and no one within the realms of professional football will ever tell you differently.


Impressive strawman you erected here and I bet you thought it was somehow impressive to dash through. I have never doubted the fact the man is an excellent marketer, businessman, snake oil salesman or sideshow barker.

He gets compared to Al Davis at times. I consider that a compliment, because Al was one of the shrewdest guys there ever was. But let me point out one huge difference. Al Davis acted as his own head of scouting as well as the GM. Jerry doesn't. (Please note how I am not complimenting Jerry by pointing this out.)


He gets compared to bad Al Davis, the senile paranoid one who thought the world was out to get him. He was compared to the Al Davis who despite his brilliant football mind twenty years ago ended up with fiascos like Lane Kiffin, rehiring coaches he previously fired and the like. There is a reason why near the end many coaching candidates avoided Oakland like the plague. Davis was a pioneer and revolutionary who unfortunately lost his mind. He was a personal hero to Jerry Jones, who has fancied himself as a maverick the very same way. Tragically, he does not and never will have the football mind that Davis had when he was sane. Davis coached the team and scouted talent. He paid his dues, had the resume and the results. Jerry Jones is nothing like him and simply bought his position.


Lots of teams go through cycles like that. It is pompous of us to think we are immune to one just because we are the Cowboys. From the time our stars started declining until Parcells arrived, I was critical of our direction and how we are run. But I started asking questions from people around the team every chance I got and unlike some, I pay attention when somebody says something.

This is not a four-five or even ten year cycle. This is fifteen full blown years of futility and frustration under the direction of the same general manager. That would cause that GM to be fired five times over if it were anywhere else. That is just the simple truth of the matter.

[Hostile]

Our Hall of Famers inviting him to present them speaks nothing to the way he performed his job as he has run this team into the ground since he has assumed more control after Coach Johnson left.This is where we are on different paths of thought. I don't see a team run into the ground since January 2, 2003.

And as for the players or former coaches, again, would you cross one of the most powerful men in the sport, one who paid you nicely and treated you well? Of course not. Most people are not going to burn bridges like that.Yes, you want me to believe that men with all consuming competitive fires like professional athletes and coaches are afraid to be outspoken. Guys who talk smack like it is second nature.

:lmao2:

Tell me another one boozeman. Just as funny as this one.

[Risen Star]

you're wasting your time

all you will get are denials, distractions, and strawmen

all we need are yes/no answers to 2 simple questions:

1) has there been any team in the free agency era where the owner is the GM and they have either been consistent contenders or won the championship?

2) do all teams that are consistent contenders and have won championships in the free agency era have a GM that is separate from the owner?

then no further discussion is needed because history and evidence have shown the way of how it can and should be done and how it should not be done

yet, we continue the way of mediocrity and excuses abound by intelligent people

there is a reason succesful teams do things a certain way
because it is proven

shakes head...

Jerry himself talks about the "unique way we are structured". He used that often in response to the criticism when Wade was fired.

I'm literally at a loss for words if there are Cowboys fans who actually believe this team is run like any other.

[Royal Laegotti]

Jerry himself talks about the "unique way we are structured". He used that often in response to the criticism when Wade was fired.

I'm literally at a loss for words if there are Cowboys fans who actually believe this team is run like any other.

Yeah I remember one time Jerry telling Dale Hanson that having the GM and owner in one person saves him time and money. Laughable! This a guy who on occasion drops a 5 or 6 figure bar tab and he's worried about saving money?

[Double Trouble]

Jerry himself talks about the "unique way we are structured". He used that often in response to the criticism when Wade was fired.

I'm literally at a loss for words if there are Cowboys fans who actually believe this team is run like any other.Think about it.....other teams have a GM who eats, sleeps and breathes NFL and college personnel. We have a guy for whom it's a part-time job, with all the other irons he has in the fire. And yet he's supposed to compete with, say, Kevin Colbert. It's beyond belief that people try to justify it.

As for his meddling:

"I wasn't surprised," (Jimmy) Johnson said of Jones' insistence that the owner knows best. "Some owners want to be the guy that all the players answer to. [Jones sees himself as] a walk-around coach, he's overseeing everything and the players answer to him."

And yet people still argue it....

[DOUBLE WING]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005069/index.htm

Hos here's the link. Can't believe you never heard this story. Selective hearing maybe? Anyway Peter King wrote this, he is a pretty good journalist and Jimmy is directly quoted about this story.

Another interesting tidbit in this story is that Jimmy had sole control of all the personnel moves in his contract.

Jimmy: "The fifth was to put all our efforts into one year. I even said I'd change the language in my contract, [which specifies] that I have sole control of all personnel moves. Then after one year I'd be free to go where I wanted."

Why would Jimmy want that written in his contract from the get go in his partnership with Jerry, this is BEFORE they got started. Could it be that Jimmy knew Jerry would want to be too hands on with the team? Did Jimmy know Jerry would want to try to be a "football guy" before the rest of the world did? Hmm! Let there be no more doubt about who was the architect of the Herchel Walker trade.

I have no doubt you'll give your best effort in discrediting me or Peter King or Jimmy or even the Pope, so have at it.

Oh man, thank you for posting this. I had never heard this story before, but now that I have I cannot WAIT to watch next year's draft. In fact, I may go back and try to find clips of past Cowboys drafts now. I want to see Jerry whispering in Garrett's ear and pointing to some blank piece of paper on the desk pretending to be talking about something really important. :laugh2:

[Hostile]

Jerry himself talks about the "unique way we are structured". He used that often in response to the criticism when Wade was fired.

I'm literally at a loss for words if there are Cowboys fans who actually believe this team is run like any other.Please tell me in what way the decisions made here are different from ones made around the league and how this affects the execution of plays on a football field.

Explain this chaos theory to me of how a butterfly flaps his wings in Brazil and a monsoon start sin Indonesia. Or however his quote went.

Because I have to tell you, in all my life I have never heard a GM or AD credited for the execution of a football team. This concept is as foreign to me as your amazement at my commentary of nothing out of the ordinary happening.

[Royal Laegotti]

Oh man, thank you for posting this. I had never heard this story before, but now that I have I cannot WAIT to watch next year's draft. In fact, I may go back and try to find clips of past Cowboys drafts now. I want to see Jerry whispering in Garrett's ear and pointing to some blank piece of paper on the desk pretending to be talking about something really important. :laugh2:
You're welcome.

Sadly Jerry doesn't have to pretend anymore. Probably Garrett has to pretend and fight to look involved since Jerry likes to hog.

Yes, i'm kidding, kind of.

[Risen Star]

Please tell me in what way the decisions made here are different from ones made around the league and how this affects the execution of plays on a football field.

Gladly. Though I shouldn't have to.

The difference between here and nearly every other team in the league is that those teams have legitimate GMs who earned their way to that spot. And it is that GM who works with the head coach to shape the roster. He's the head coach's best friend. He's the guy responsible for finding the players the coach needs.

They don't go to the owner, who knows nothing about it. They go to the GM. A personnel man. The owner signs the checks. He doesn't fill in the name on those checks.

When you do not have a real GM and are forced to work with an unqualified guy like Jerry Jones, that effects the quality of players on your roster. Which effects your execution on the field. Good players execute. Bad players don't.

Even when he's differing to others, you are still missing out on having a real GM in the mix. You're operating shorthanded.

Another big difference is there is accountability elsewhere. There are good and bad qualified GMs. When those guy fail, they get fired. So there is hope for the future. When ours fails, he stays and we change the names of the scapegoats. Entering the next year with the same failed "unique structure" as the year before.

Then we have the issue of when you have an owner with an ego so big that he has to pretend he's a GM, that ego also causes him to do things like pulling his head coach aside during the 1st quarter of a football game, being the team mouthpiece to the media, putting his input into how personnel is used on gamedays, hiring assistant coaches before his head coach. Stuff like that. That's also different elsewhere.

A better question would have been what exactly is similar with the way the Cowboys are run as opposed to other teams.

[Risen Star]

Think about it.....other teams have a GM who eats, sleeps and breathes NFL and college personnel. We have a guy for whom it's a part-time job, with all the other irons he has in the fire. And yet he's supposed to compete with, say, Kevin Colbert. It's beyond belief that people try to justify it.

As for his meddling:

"I wasn't surprised," (Jimmy) Johnson said of Jones' insistence that the owner knows best. "Some owners want to be the guy that all the players answer to. [Jones sees himself as] a walk-around coach, he's overseeing everything and the players answer to him."
And yet people still argue it....

No question about it. He's a part time GM too.

Though that might not be a bad thing considering his skills.

[Risen Star]

Oh man, thank you for posting this. I had never heard this story before, but now that I have I cannot WAIT to watch next year's draft. In fact, I may go back and try to find clips of past Cowboys drafts now. I want to see Jerry whispering in Garrett's ear and pointing to some blank piece of paper on the desk pretending to be talking about something really important. :laugh2:

Well, he doesn't have to do that now. He actually does have final say in the war room these days. This was back when Jimmy built the team and Jerry acted like he was involved.

[Royal Laegotti]

Gladly. Though I shouldn't have to.

The difference between here and nearly every other team in the league is that those teams have legitimate GMs who earned their way to that spot. And it is that GM who works with the head coach to shape the roster. He's the head coach's best friend. He's the guy responsible for finding the players the coach needs.

They don't go to the owner, who knows nothing about it. They go to the GM. A personnel man. The owner signs the checks. He doesn't fill in the name on those checks.

When you do not have a real GM and are forced to work with an unqualified guy like Jerry Jones, that effects the quality of players on your roster. Which effects your execution on the field. Good players execute. Bad players don't.

Even when he's differing to others, you are still missing out on having a real GM in the mix. You're operating shorthanded.

Another big difference is there is accountability elsewhere. There are good and bad qualified GMs. When those guy fail, they get fired. So there is hope for the future. When ours fails, he stays and we change the names of the scapegoats. Entering the next year with the same failed "unique structure" as the year before.

Then we have the issue of when you have an owner with an ego so big that he has to pretend he's a GM, that ego also causes him to do things like pulling his head coach aside during the 1st quarter of a football game, being the team mouthpiece to the media, putting his input into how personnel is used on gamedays, hiring assistant coaches before his head coach. Stuff like that. That's also different elsewhere.

A better question would have been what exactly is similar with the way the Cowboys are run as opposed to other teams.
:bow:

Well put!

[BraveHeartFan]

Nothing anyone posts or references is going to change your mind. But this was common knowledge and had been discussed during the Jerry and Jimmy break up and Hos knows it. Saying that he never heard it and asking for a link, as you just did, is a cop out. Well, I'm providing a link so go ahead and find more excuses.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005069/index.htm


Thanks for the link. Good read. I had heard the rumors and stories before and this is another article on them. Good reads, every time, much like the Skip Bayless books and the Ron Pearlman book.

I'm interested now in reading or seeing an interview from Jimmy or Bill themselves where some of these things are discussed. That would be some good stuff.

To go along with those rumors I'd like to ask you your opinion on a couple more if you don't mind.

Do you believe that Troy Aikman is gay and that Barry Switzer, and his buddies, believed Troy was and told people like Skip Bayless that they believed he was?

Also do you think Troy intentionally faked injuries, and threw games, against the Redskins in 1995 to make his buddy Norv look good? Cause that was another rumor that Skip claims Barry Switzer was telling folks back then as well.

There are plenty of tall tales told around here and I assure you this is reliable. I am not someone who likes to make up stories to impress people on this board.


Appreciated the information in the PM. Thanks for taking the time.

[tupperware]

Nothing anyone posts or references is going to change your mind. But this was common knowledge and had been discussed during the Jerry and Jimmy break up and Hos knows it. Saying that he never heard it and asking for a link, as you just did, is a cop out. Well, I'm providing a link so go ahead and find more excuses.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005069/index.htm
Hadn't read that before. Thank you.

[Dodger12]

Thanks for the link. Good read. I had heard the rumors and stories before and this is another article on them. Good reads, every time, much like the Skip Bayless books and the Ron Pearlman book.

I'm interested now in reading or seeing an interview from Jimmy or Bill themselves where some of these things are discussed. That would be some good stuff.

I agree but I don't think we'll ever really see it. Just my opinion, but as time passed, so did the grudges, especially after Jimmy's mom died and Jerry was all class with Jimmy and paid the meal costs after the funeral. The Dale Hansen interview(s) are pretty telling but I also think this one is telling as well. Go to the 3:30 mark and listen to the question about whether or not Jimmy respects Jerry's football knowledge as an owner, president and GM and if Jimmy respects him as an equal. Knowing what we know now, the body language is pretty telling and you can almost sense their days together are numbered.

Ab4CzbRTNQk

To go along with those rumors I'd like to ask you your opinion on a couple more if you don't mind.

Do you believe that Troy Aikman is gay and that Barry Switzer, and his buddies, believed Troy was and told people like Skip Bayless that they believed he was?

Also do you think Troy intentionally faked injuries, and threw games, against the Redskins in 1995 to make his buddy Norv look good? Cause that was another rumor that Skip claims Barry Switzer was telling folks back then as well.

I don't believe Troy is gay but I remember the rumors when they first surfaced. It wouldn't surprise me if Switzer started some of those rumors; it's no secret that he and Troy weren't fond of one another. Heck, if you can be a part of accusing Troy of being a racist, then I don't find it hard to believe that you could accuse Troy of being gay.

And I don't believe Troy faked injuries but I get the common theme is Switzer in all these rumors. He had no business being hired to coach this team...none.

I've never read anything Bayless wrote but Pearlman's book is pretty good. While it may or may not be 100% accurate, the guy did his homework and used multiple sources and attributed his facts to specific interviews he did so it's tough to completely discount what he's saying. Again, just my opinion.

[Dodger12]

Hadn't read that before. Thank you.

You're welcome. Glad I could find it and post it.

[Hostile]

Gladly. Though I shouldn't have to.

The difference between here and nearly every other team in the league is that those teams have legitimate GMs who earned their way to that spot. And it is that GM who works with the head coach to shape the roster. He's the head coach's best friend. He's the guy responsible for finding the players the coach needs.

They don't go to the owner, who knows nothing about it. They go to the GM. A personnel man. The owner signs the checks. He doesn't fill in the name on those checks.

When you do not have a real GM and are forced to work with an unqualified guy like Jerry Jones, that effects the quality of players on your roster. Which effects your execution on the field. Good players execute. Bad players don't.

Even when he's differing to others, you are still missing out on having a real GM in the mix. You're operating shorthanded.

Another big difference is there is accountability elsewhere. There are good and bad qualified GMs. When those guy fail, they get fired. So there is hope for the future. When ours fails, he stays and we change the names of the scapegoats. Entering the next year with the same failed "unique structure" as the year before.

Then we have the issue of when you have an owner with an ego so big that he has to pretend he's a GM, that ego also causes him to do things like pulling his head coach aside during the 1st quarter of a football game, being the team mouthpiece to the media, putting his input into how personnel is used on gamedays, hiring assistant coaches before his head coach. Stuff like that. That's also different elsewhere.

A better question would have been what exactly is similar with the way the Cowboys are run as opposed to other teams.GM is merely a title. We have legitimate NFL Personnel men doing these exact same things.

Again, this comes down to people are upset that he is visible. Why not just admit that?

Not one of his Head Coaches has issues with how he runs things to the point where they ratify stuff like this.

When I ask for examples of how things are run differently here I expect (sarcasm) to hear that Jerry writes names in a the playing cards in a deck and plays solitaire, poker, or cribbage until one card is the pick.

We still have guys handling personnel and salary cap, and watching the waiver wire, etc.

We still have the same functions happening. I don't get the uproar over a title to the point that we believe things are different in Dallas.

The closest thing I have seen to this is him coming to the sidelines and I really think that is overblown. How did that episode this week have an effect on the last 15 years? To me it is nothing more than he could go tell Garrett himself than get to a phone line and have it radioed to him on the sidelines. Big deal. It wouldn't bother me if I were Garrett. Jason says it doesn't bother him.

I guess it doesn't need to. Enough people are bothered by it to make it an issue for them, but not for the team.

This is still just about how visible he is. I'm telling you he does not negotiate salaries like Ozzie Newsome does. Stephen and Todd Williams do that. He does not choose the scouts. Tom Ciskowski does. He doesn't watch the NFL waiver wire and keep track of available Free Agents. Judd Garrett does.

He does talk to the media. My gosh, so did Tex Schramm. In fact, not a well known fact but Tex watched all games from the Press Box with the media. They were his guys.

I'm going to keep saying it until it one day sinks in, Jerry Jones as GM is a figurehead. Yes, he is involved, but he is not all controlling and in fact if you ask anyone associated with the team his primary goal is to give his Head Coach whatever he asks for.

Yeah, that's a horrible situation to be in. To get everything you want.

[Dave_in-NC]

GM is merely a title. We have legitimate NFL Personnel men doing these exact same things.

Again, this comes down to people are upset that he is visible. Why not just admit that?

Not one of his Head Coaches has issues with how he runs things to the point where they ratify stuff like this.

When I ask for examples of how things are run differently here I expect (sarcasm) to hear that Jerry writes names in a the playing cards in a deck and plays solitaire, poker, or cribbage until one card is the pick.

We still have guys handling personnel and salary cap, and watching the waiver wire, etc.

We still have the same functions happening. I don't get the uproar over a title to the point that we believe things are different in Dallas.

The closest thing I have seen to this is him coming to the sidelines and I really think that is overblown. How did that episode this week have an effect on the last 15 years? To me it is nothing more than he could go tell Garrett himself than get to a phone line and have it radioed to him on the sidelines. Big deal. It wouldn't bother me if I were Garrett. Jason says it doesn't bother him.

I guess it doesn't need to. Enough people are bothered by it to make it an issue for them, but not for the team.

This is still just about how visible he is. I'm telling you he does not negotiate salaries like Ozzie Newsome does. Stephen and Todd Williams do that. He does not choose the scouts. Tom Ciskowski does. He doesn't watch the NFL waiver wire and keep track of available Free Agents. Judd Garrett does.

He does talk to the media. My gosh, so did Tex Schramm. In fact, not a well known fact but Tex watched all games from the Press Box with the media. They were his guys.

I'm going to keep saying it until it one day sinks in, Jerry Jones as GM is a figurehead. Yes, he is involved, but he is not all controlling and in fact if you ask anyone associated with the team his primary goal is to give his Head Coach whatever he asks for.

Yeah, that's a horrible situation to be in. To get everything you want.

In the end he has final power to do as he pleases. I certainly believe it's structured just as you lay it out. I also believe things go HIS way more than you want to believe. Or he isn't surrounded by very smart people at all.

[Risen Star]

GM is merely a title. We have legitimate NFL Personnel men doing these exact same things.

Again, this comes down to people are upset that he is visible. Why not just admit that?

Not one of his Head Coaches has issues with how he runs things to the point where they ratify stuff like this.

When I ask for examples of how things are run differently here I expect (sarcasm) to hear that Jerry writes names in a the playing cards in a deck and plays solitaire, poker, or cribbage until one card is the pick.

We still have guys handling personnel and salary cap, and watching the waiver wire, etc.

We still have the same functions happening. I don't get the uproar over a title to the point that we believe things are different in Dallas.

The closest thing I have seen to this is him coming to the sidelines and I really think that is overblown. How did that episode this week have an effect on the last 15 years? To me it is nothing more than he could go tell Garrett himself than get to a phone line and have it radioed to him on the sidelines. Big deal. It wouldn't bother me if I were Garrett. Jason says it doesn't bother him.

I guess it doesn't need to. Enough people are bothered by it to make it an issue for them, but not for the team.

This is still just about how visible he is. I'm telling you he does not negotiate salaries like Ozzie Newsome does. Stephen and Todd Williams do that. He does not choose the scouts. Tom Ciskowski does. He doesn't watch the NFL waiver wire and keep track of available Free Agents. Judd Garrett does.

He does talk to the media. My gosh, so did Tex Schramm. In fact, not a well known fact but Tex watched all games from the Press Box with the media. They were his guys.

I'm going to keep saying it until it one day sinks in, Jerry Jones as GM is a figurehead. Yes, he is involved, but he is not all controlling and in fact if you ask anyone associated with the team his primary goal is to give his Head Coach whatever he asks for.

Yeah, that's a horrible situation to be in. To get everything you want.

And that entire chapter doesn't address the fact, even if it's all true, that not having a qualified GM is a handicap.

Even if Jerry defers to others all the time, you are still operating without the most important member of any sports organization. A personnel wizard to lead the troops.

BTW, you shouldn't use Stephen Jones' name as an example in your post. He's as qualified as his father. I just don't respect positions gained by wallet or bloodlines. Show me merit and I'll take notice.

[Dfense94]

This is still just about how visible he is. I'm telling you he does not negotiate salaries like Ozzie Newsome does. Stephen and Todd Williams do that. He does not choose the scouts. Tom Ciskowski does. He doesn't watch the NFL waiver wire and keep track of available Free Agents. Judd Garrett does.


Instead of having one proven, qualified guy ultimately responsible for those duties (you know, like a GM), we have four or five guys doing that. And when there is a decision to be made, who do they go to? By your own words, a figure head. And you still haven't addressed the lack of accountability. Your posts defending Jerry are beyond stretches. You sure you don't work for the team in some capacity?

[Hostile]

In the end he has final power to do as he pleases. I certainly believe it's structured just as you lay it out. I also believe things go HIS way more than you want to believe. Or he isn't surrounded by very smart people at all.Meaning what? He can do something fans can't?

Name things he does that upset his Head Coach. Give me pertinent examples and I don't mean the final stories of when Jimmy and he parted ways. Concrete examples of how he interferes.

The next one of those examples I get will be the first one ever in 10 years of me asking for them. Lots of invented myths, but nothing that year in and out undermines his football team and makes them play worse than they would for another organization.

Show me his voodoo doll.

[Hostile]

Instead of having one proven, qualified guy ultimately responsible for those duties (you know, like a GM), we have four or five guys doing that. And when there is a decision to be made, who do they go to? By your own words, a figure head. And you still haven't addressed the lack of accountability. Your posts defending Jerry are beyond stretches. You sure you don't work for the team in some capacity?It is a team organization. Tell me this, if you were the Head Coach and you wanted Patrick Willis and he was available, would you appreciate a figurehead who turned it over to his football guys to make the deal happen?

Be honest.

[Dfense94]

Name things he does that upset his Head Coach. Give me pertinent examples and I don't mean the final stories of when Jimmy and he parted ways. Concrete examples of how he interferes.


Bringing in Terrell Owens despite Parcells not wanting him immediately comes to mind.

[Dfense94]

It is a team organization. Tell me this, if you were the Head Coach and you wanted Patrick Willis and he was available, would you appreciate a figurehead who turned it over to his football guys to make the deal happen?

Be honest.

Would a qualified GM who handled those responsibilities not be able to bring in Patrick Willis?

[Risen Star]

It is a team organization. Tell me this, if you were the Head Coach and you wanted Patrick Willis and he was available, would you appreciate a figurehead who turned it over to his football guys to make the deal happen?

Be honest.

If I was the head coach I'd expect to go to the ultimate football guy, the GM, to state my case for it. Run it by a personnel guru.

We don't have those checks and balances in Dallas.

[Risen Star]

Bringing in Terrell Owens despite Parcells not wanting him immediately comes to mind.

Parcells made a comment before he left - "Before long, you won't even know I was here."

That was his way of telling you good luck with this lunatic owner.

And Jerry made him a prophet as he went out and hired an offensive coordinator before a puppet head coach.

[Hostile]

And that entire chapter doesn't address the fact, even if it's all true, that not having a qualified GM is a handicap.

Even if Jerry defers to others all the time, you are still operating without the most important member of any sports organization. A personnel wizard to lead the troops.

BTW, you shouldn't use Stephen Jones' name as an example in your post. He's as qualified as his father. I just don't respect positions gained by wallet or bloodlines. Show me merit and I'll take notice.Again, I need to see evidence of how the GM affects winning and losing.

By your argument, Viriginia McCaskey is a better "football guy" than her father, George Halas because her Bears teams won a Super Bowl and Papa Bear never did.

The Head Coach is the most important member of the organization, not the GM. I don't care if the GM is an Ozzie Newsome (my personal favorite) or a Committee that handles the operations and answers to Mike Brown if the job is getting done.

You guys aren't showing me where the job is not getting done here. Oh and I know someone is going to say 15 years, 1 playoff win. Yeah, I get that. I don't think most of it has anything to do with who our GM is and I want concrete evidence that who a GM is causes wins or losses. Totally foreign idea for me and I stepped on football fields wanting to do what these guys do. It never occurred to me that all of my hard work in the weight room and film room was due to the qualifications of my Athletic Director.

[Doomsday101]

Meaning what? He can do something fans can't?

Name things he does that upset his Head Coach. Give me pertinent examples and I don't mean the final stories of when Jimmy and he parted ways. Concrete examples of how he interferes.

The next one of those examples I get will be the first one ever in 10 years of me asking for them. Lots of invented myths, but nothing that year in and out undermines his football team and makes them play worse than they would for another organization.

Show me his voodoo doll.

I agree.

As Jimmy said:

People have a misconception about Jerry meddling and making sure that he's making all the decisions. He's part of the decision-making just like the whole group. But Jerry does not meddle as much as people think. I don't think he's ever going to change that structure of the decision-making. Like I said, after I left he changed that.

Now, having said that, as long as he has a strong personality as the head coach, like when he had Parcells, Jerry's going to listen to the strong personality. So, really, the strong personality as a head coach is going to get done what he wants done. So, I don't see it being a conflict.

SBB: Well, Garrett seems to have that type of personality, from what we see. Of course, we don't know him the way you do and the way Jerry does. Do you think he has the type personality to be able to manage Jerry? I don't know if that's really the right way to put it. The right personality to manage to work with Jerry and have the kind of success he wants to have?

JJ: I really think so. Of course, it's hard to predict how an assistant coach is going to fare as a head coach, because it is a different role. But I think he's got the qualities to be successful.

[Hostile]

If I was the head coach I'd expect to go to the ultimate football guy, the GM, to state my case for it. Run it by a personnel guru.

We don't have those checks and balances in Dallas.That is a definitive statement. Give me examples.

[Hostile]

Would a qualified GM who handled those responsibilities not be able to bring in Patrick Willis?You did not answer the question.

What does it matter as long as Willis is acquired?

[Hostile]

Bringing in Terrell Owens despite Parcells not wanting him immediately comes to mind.Parcells said that he wanted Owens. I guess he lied?

[Dfense94]

Wait... you dont think the GM affects winning and losing? ***?

[BraveHeartFan]

I agree but I don't think we'll ever really see it. Just my opinion, but as time passed, so did the grudges, especially after Jimmy's mom died and Jerry was all class with Jimmy and paid the meal costs after the funeral. The Dale Hansen interview(s) are pretty telling but I also think this one is telling as well. Go to the 3:30 mark and listen to the question about whether or not Jimmy respects Jerry's football knowledge as an owner, president and GM and if Jimmy respects him as an equal. Knowing what we know now, the body language is pretty telling and you can almost sense their days together are numbered.

Ab4CzbRTNQk



I don't believe Troy is gay but I remember the rumors when they first surfaced. It wouldn't surprise me if Switzer started some of those rumors; it's no secret that he and Troy weren't fond of one another. Heck, if you can be a part of accusing Troy of being a racist, then I don't find it hard to believe that you could accuse Troy of being gay.

And I don't believe Troy faked injuries but I get the common theme is Switzer in all these rumors. He had no business being hired to coach this team...none.

I've never read anything Bayless wrote but Pearlman's book is pretty good. While it may or may not be 100% accurate, the guy did his homework and used multiple sources and attributed his facts to specific interviews he did so it's tough to completely discount what he's saying. Again, just my opinion.

Definately a good read, as were both the books I read from Skip Bayless. They both seemed to have done some homework on their stuff and everything as well so I'm not completely discounting either one of them, don't get me wrong on that.

I'm just interested in seeing some interviews with these people who've been quoted as saying these things, or implying these things, either confirming or denying things like that.

I just think it would be facinating and entertaining no matter which way it ultimately turned out.

[Hostile]

I agree.

As Jimmy said:

People have a misconception about Jerry meddling and making sure that he's making all the decisions. He's part of the decision-making just like the whole group. But Jerry does not meddle as much as people think. I don't think he's ever going to change that structure of the decision-making. Like I said, after I left he changed that.

Now, having said that, as long as he has a strong personality as the head coach, like when he had Parcells, Jerry's going to listen to the strong personality. So, really, the strong personality as a head coach is going to get done what he wants done. So, I don't see it being a conflict.

SBB: Well, Garrett seems to have that type of personality, from what we see. Of course, we don't know him the way you do and the way Jerry does. Do you think he has the type personality to be able to manage Jerry? I don't know if that's really the right way to put it. The right personality to manage to work with Jerry and have the kind of success he wants to have?

JJ: I really think so. Of course, it's hard to predict how an assistant coach is going to fare as a head coach, because it is a different role. But I think he's got the qualities to be successful.I can't improve on this because I am not in Jimmy's league nor do I have his experience. But right there in black and white does he not destroy this myth of Jerry as meddling fool ruining things?

[Dfense94]

Parcells said that he wanted Owens. I guess he lied?

No he didnt.

[Hostile]

Wait... you dont think the GM affects winning and losing? ***?You think the Bears won because of Virginia McCaskey and her son?

[Double Trouble]

In the end he has final power to do as he pleases. I certainly believe it's structured just as you lay it out. I also believe things go HIS way more than you want to believe. Or he isn't surrounded by very smart people at all.“When I bought the team I said that there’s no way I could make the kind of commitment that I’m making to buy the team . . . and not have the final say relative to the kinds of things that general managers decide,” Jones told KTCK-AM.

Yeah, it's just his public appearances that are the issue. :laugh2:

No idea why people would think Jones would interfere...it's not like he would go down on the field during the game and tell the head coach who was and wasn't going to play.....

[Hostile]

No he didnt.Exactly, he did not lie. Thank you.

[Hostile]

“When I bought the team I said that there’s no way I could make the kind of commitment that I’m making to buy the team . . . and not have the final say relative to the kinds of things that general managers decide,” Jones told KTCK-AM.

Yeah, it's just his public appearances that are the issue. :laugh2:

No idea why people would think Jones would interfere...it's not like he would go down on the field during the game and tell the head coach who was and wasn't going to play.....I knew that myth would be born soon. He did not tell him who he could and could not play. That has been proven.

[Dfense94]

You think the Bears won because of Virginia McCaskey and her son?

You keep bringing up that one example. How many other examples of horrible GM's winning championships can you name?

[Risen Star]

Again, I need to see evidence of how the GM affects winning and losing.

How can the guy with final say on all personnel moves not have impact on winning or losing?


The Head Coach is the most important member of the organization, not the GM. I don't care if the GM is an Ozzie Newsome (my personal favorite) or a Committee that handles the operations and answers to Mike Brown if the job is getting done.

Disagree. Of course we're talking about two critical members of the team, but I'll take talent evaluation over coaching, if I had to pick. You find a great GM and you'll be successful with several coaches.

You guys aren't showing me where the job is not getting done here. Oh and I know someone is going to say 15 years, 1 playoff win. Yeah, I get that. I don't think most of it has anything to do with who our GM is and I want concrete evidence that who a GM is causes wins or losses. Totally foreign idea for me and I stepped on football fields wanting to do what these guys do. It never occurred to me that all of my hard work in the weight room and film room was due to the qualifications of my Athletic Director.

I didn't realize talent on a roster effecting wins and losses was a total foreign idea to you. This is so out of left field that I don't even know how to respond to that.

It's pretty simple to me. The better the GM, the better players you find. The better players you find, the better your team will become. The better your team becomes, the better your record will be.

There's a reason why we found players consistently like no other while Jimmy was here and then failed so miserably when he left. We lost our talent evaluator.

You and I both agree on the quality of the head coach we have right now. We also agree that the real problem is the talent. That falls on the GM. We are in this position today because our General Manager failed to stock the cupboards over the years. There is simply no other legitimate reason.

[Dfense94]

Exactly, he did not lie. Thank you.

He was lying if he said he wanted "The Player." Everyone knows Jerry Jones was the driving force behind bringing Owens here, and that Parcells wanted nothing to do with it. Parcells only relented because he couldn't win the battle. You're simply not using common sense if you deny that.

[Risen Star]

I knew that myth would be born soon. He did not tell him who he could and could not play. That has been proven.

Jerry's own quote was that they already had a plan for Felix and now with this Romo situation Garrett "didn't need to make that one on his own".

Yeah. That's kinda undermining the head coach.

No owner or GM should have any input on how personnel is used on gamedays. And they certainly shouldn't pull him aside during the game to do it.

There's no defense for it.

[Risen Star]

One other bonus to a great GM is also his decision on the head coach. We can't leave that out of it.

A great GM doesn't waste time with the Barry Switzers, Wade Phillips and Dave Campos of the world.

[Doomsday101]

I can't improve on this because I am not in Jimmy's league nor do I have his experience. But right there in black and white does he not destroy this myth of Jerry as meddling fool ruining things?

Jimmy has never pulled punches when talking about Jerry so for anyone to act like well he did not want to upset Jerry is a joke. In large part people have created their own preception. I can go by made up stories by those who come here or I can go by someone with 1st hand knowledge and who has worked with Jerry.

[Double Trouble]

I knew that myth would be born soon. He did not tell him who he could and could not play. That has been proven.
Proven? :laugh2:

Anything Garrett or Jones says on the subject now is worthless. As Jimmy Johnson said just a few days ago, Jerry wants to be the guy the players see as in charge. Not Jason Garrett. Your myths have been shattered 100x over. The repeated failures of the last several years are a testament of that fact.

What Jones said afterwards - before he had time to consider how idiotic his appearance was - made it as clear as a mountain stream what his motivation for going to Garrett was. He's slipped up numerous times this year to tell us who's really in charge, and it isn't Garrett.

Everyone knows the problem with this franchise, except for Dallas homers. And you know yourself, you just don't want to admit it. It will only become more evident over the next few years as the talent acquired in the Parcells' era grows old.

[Doomsday101]

I knew that myth would be born soon. He did not tell him who he could and could not play. That has been proven.

If you say it enough times it becomes the truth for some.

[Risen Star]

That is a definitive statement. Give me examples.

Examples of what? That was a generic description of what goes on in a football team.

The head coach doesn't acquire talent. The GM goes. Traditionally. I know Philly has it backwards right now and you might notice their failure lately with selecting players.

All franchises have the same team of scouts and coaches as well as cap men. But they also have a GM at the top making sure it all works in harmony. The Cowboys don't have that and it most definitely is a negative and it's absolutely the reason why we don't win anymore.

[Risen Star]

It will only become more evident over the next few years as the talent acquired in the Parcells' era grows old.

That's what scares me most. That we won't be able to form another core to compete with as this one ages.

I have noticed a little better job of drafting post-Parcells than what we were doing before him. I'm hoping that is correct.

Nothing could be better for this team than if Jason Garrett has the ability to evaluate talent. I don't know whether he can or can't yet. But I do believe he has the owner's ear and will get the players he wants, for the most part.

[Double Trouble]

If you say it enough times it becomes the truth for some.

That's exactly what the two of you do quite often: try to convince each other of something that is blatantly untrue.

"I wasn't surprised," (Jimmy) Johnson said of Jones' insistence that the owner knows best. "Some owners want to be the guy that all the players answer to. [Jones sees himself as] a walk-around coach, he's overseeing everything and the players answer to him."

I don't know that I've ever seen a more damning comment on the situation, considering the source. Jerry sees himself as the "walk around coach". Jimmy's words, not mine, not anyone's on this board.

[visionary]

Again, I need to see evidence of how the GM affects winning and losing.


:laugh2: :laugh2:

i think there are 31 NFL franchises who dont know that GMs are insignificant to their success

they could save a boat load of money by firing these do-nothings

[Doomsday101]

That's exactly what the two of you do quite often: try to convince each other of something that is blatantly untrue.

"I wasn't surprised," (Jimmy) Johnson said of Jones' insistence that the owner knows best. "Some owners want to be the guy that all the players answer to. [Jones sees himself as] a walk-around coach, he's overseeing everything and the players answer to him."

I don't know that I've ever seen a more damning comment on the situation, considering the source. Jerry sees himself as the "walk around coach". Jimmy's words, not mine, not anyone's on this board.

BS guy you sit there making up crap that is not based in fact. You give your opinion that is all so while you can sell it to your little gang it does not make it fact

[visionary]

BS guy you sit there making up crap that is not based in fact. You give your opinion that is all so while you can sell it to your little gang it does not make it fact

i guess i am confused

that is a direct quote from jimmy

that is not a fact but is being 'made up'?

how so?

[Double Trouble]

BS guy you sit there making up crap that is not based in fact. You give your opinion that is all so while you can sell it to your little gang it does not make it factWhat did I make up?

"He doesn't like it because Jerry thinks he's the walk-around head coach."

Jimmy didn't really say that? The Star-Telegram fabricated it?

Keep up the charade all you want. The results of the last 15 years tell us all we need to know about Jerry Jones.

[Dfense94]

BS guy you sit there making up crap that is not based in fact. You give your opinion that is all so while you can sell it to your little gang it does not make it fact

What?

[wileedog]

I'm going to keep saying it until it one day sinks in, Jerry Jones as GM is a figurehead. Yes, he is involved, but he is not all controlling and in fact if you ask anyone associated with the team his primary goal is to give his Head Coach whatever he asks for.

Yeah, that's a horrible situation to be in. To get everything you want.

If this organization actually ran in any way like you have convinced yourself that it does, the Roy Williams trade would never have happened.

[BraveHeartFan]

You and I both agree on the quality of the head coach we have right now. We also agree that the real problem is the talent. That falls on the GM. We are in this position today because our General Manager failed to stock the cupboards over the years. There is simply no other legitimate reason.

A team with Romo, Witten, Ware, Lee, Ratliff, Austin, Bryant, Robinson, Jenkins, Murray, Jones, Free, and Smith is hardly void of talent or bare.




Everyone knows the problem with this franchise, except for Dallas homers. And you know yourself, you just don't want to admit it. It will only become more evident over the next few years as the talent acquired in the Parcells' era grows old.

Wait a minute how did Bill aquire any talent? You've been arguing that his GM undermines his coaches and that Jerry is the one deciding these things.

So which is it? Does he get in the way, make the decisions, and undermine his coaches or isn't it? You can't cherry pick situations and say "He wasn't do it then but he is doing it here, and he was doing it there."

Either he does it or he doesn't.

[wileedog]

A team with Romo, Witten, Ware, Lee, Ratliff, Austin, Bryant, Robinson, Jenkins, Murray, Jones, Free, and Smith is hardly void of talent or bare..

How much of that talent is on the lines?

That is the collection of talent a fantasy football coach or the Marketing Director puts together, not an NFL GM.

[Doomsday101]

i guess i am confused

that is a direct quote from jimmy

that is not a fact but is being 'made up'?

how so?

Jimmy quote was a comeback on Jerry after saying he was a walk around HC after Jimmy gave his opinion of Garrett needing to hire an OC.

Garrett does not want to hire an OC and Jerry has backed Garrett.

[BraveHeartFan]

How much of that talent is on the lines?

That is the collection of talent a fantasy football coach or the Marketing Director puts together, not an NFL GM.


Free and Smith are the bookends on your O-Line. That's not a bad two to have in the equation at this point.

Ratliff is on the D-Line and while I didn't note Spears I happen to believe he's a pretty good, and under-rated, player as well.

The team needs more, to be sure, but again it's not like the team is bare of talent.


And no offense but you didn't put any specifics on where the talent had to be in your original point. You've only now changed it.

[Dodger12]

Name things he does that upset his Head Coach. Give me pertinent examples and I don't mean the final stories of when Jimmy and he parted ways. Concrete examples of how he interferes.

The next one of those examples I get will be the first one ever in 10 years of me asking for them. Lots of invented myths, but nothing that year in and out undermines his football team and makes them play worse than they would for another organization.

Are you telling everyone here that Jerry showing up on the sidelines during a football game on national TV to talk to his HC about strategy would not/did not make JG angry, even in the slightest? Really? Or publicly criticizing his HC after a game?

And the question is silly anyway because if you're not JG, you wouldn't know for certain if he's angry or not so the question can not be definitively answered either way.

[Dodger12]

It is a team organization. Tell me this, if you were the Head Coach and you wanted Patrick Willis and he was available, would you appreciate a figurehead who turned it over to his football guys to make the deal happen?

Be honest.

Does he have to contractually agree punch a time clock to prove minimum hours worked before makes the deal happen?;)

[visionary]

Are you telling everyone here that Jerry showing up on the sidelines during a football game on national TV to talk to his HC about strategy would not/did not make JG angry, even in the slightest? Really? Or publicly criticizing his HC after a game?

And the question is silly anyway because if you're not JG, you wouldn't know for certain if he's angry or not so the question can not be definitively answered either way.

shhhh..

he is trying to build strawmen

facts have to place in this argument ;)

[visionary]

Jimmy quote was a comeback on Jerry after saying he was a walk around HC after Jimmy gave his opinion of Garrett needing to hire an OC.

Garrett does not want to hire an OC and Jerry has backed Garrett.

excuse me

he gave you a direct quote from jimmy

your reply was that he is making up crap and just giving his opinion

that was patently not the case

sorry, cant move the goal post

[Risen Star]

Are you telling everyone here that Jerry showing up on the sidelines during a football game on national TV to talk to his HC about strategy would not/did not make JG angry, even in the slightest? Really? Or publicly criticizing his HC after a game?

And the question is silly anyway because if you're not JG, you wouldn't know for certain if he's angry or not so the question can not be definitively answered either way.

Hostile has a bad habit of quoting the team as proof that it isn't flawed.

He'd have been the Iraqi with artillery fire overhead, breathing a sigh of relief that we were nowhere near Baghdad.

[Dodger12]

Parcells made a comment before he left - "Before long, you won't even know I was here."

That was his way of telling you good luck with this lunatic owner.

And Jerry made him a prophet as he went out and hired an offensive coordinator before a puppet head coach.


One other bonus to a great GM is also his decision on the head coach. We can't leave that out of it.

A great GM doesn't waste time with the Barry Switzers, Wade Phillips and Dave Campos of the world.

You're 100% on the money RS......100%:bow:

shhhh..

he is trying to build strawmen

facts have to place in this argument ;)

This place is starting to lose it's mind. You quote Jimmy and their response is that it never happened. You quote Jerry and it's not what Jerry said it was and so on and so forth. You make a point, you're asked for a link; they make a definitive statement and we have to accept it as fact.

Now GM's don't have any bearing on winning and losing, as if they're not responsible for acquiring the talent and the HC to lead them. This is priceless.....

[JackWagon]

wake me up when we have a real GM. until then it will be the same as the last 15 years. mediocrity and playoff losses.

[Risen Star]

wake me up when we have a real GM. until then it will be the same as the last 15 years. mediocrity and playoff losses.

I'm not willing to admit that. It's harder to win, but I can't believe it's impossible.

I think if we can find the right head coach who has the ability to find talent and Jerry respects him enough to listen, we can win.

Whether Garrett is the guy, we shall see. I have no doubt he can handle the coaching. It's the player acquisition that's the question for me.

[Dodger12]

Whether Garrett is the guy, we shall see. I have no doubt he can handle the coaching. It's the player acquisition that's the question for me.

I used to think that way but now it's the opposite. I'm not so sure he can manage the game and the flow of play calling after some things we've seen this season. I just didn't expect those types of mistakes. I also don't see any type of identity on offense.

I'll give JG the benefit of the doubt when it comes to players and drafting. He had to be chirping in Jerry's ear about OL and he may be the single biggest reason why we took Tyron Smith so high.

[Doomsday101]

excuse me

he gave you a direct quote from jimmy

your reply was that he is making up crap and just giving his opinion

that was patently not the case

sorry, cant move the goal post

I said what he was responding to and the context of his statement.

[Hostile]

You keep bringing up that one example. How many other examples of horrible GM's winning championships can you name?I honestly don't pay much attention to who GMs are. I happen to like Ozzie Newsome and Kevin Colbert. But to me the rest of them are completely inconsequential.

Tex Schramm is the only GM in the Hall of Fame and probably the only one who will ever be in the Hall of Fame. Know why? Because they are mostly just contract pushers.

[Hostile]

Jerry's own quote was that they already had a plan for Felix and now with this Romo situation Garrett "didn't need to make that one on his own".

Yeah. That's kinda undermining the head coach.

No owner or GM should have any input on how personnel is used on gamedays. And they certainly shouldn't pull him aside during the game to do it.

There's no defense for it.If the plan was already in place, then he didn't undermine him. He merely reported the Giants win, Romo's injury, and left.

[Hostile]

One other bonus to a great GM is also his decision on the head coach. We can't leave that out of it.

A great GM doesn't waste time with the Barry Switzers, Wade Phillips and Dave Campos of the world.
This I agree with 100% and I have repeatedly said I eased up on Jerry when he hired Parcells. Even Wade is a good football guy. He just is too lenient to be a Head Coach. Particularly in Dallas.

I think Jason is the right hire, and therefore I don't need to worry about what the GM is doing until such time as we need a new Head Coach. By that time I fully expect Jerry to have stepped aside and Stephen Jones to have hired Sean Payton as our GM. Yes, I am serious.

Oh, and I have never said Jerry is a great GM, just that he is a figurehead mostly.

[Hostile]

Examples of what? That was a generic description of what goes on in a football team.

The head coach doesn't acquire talent. The GM goes. Traditionally. I know Philly has it backwards right now and you might notice their failure lately with selecting players.

All franchises have the same team of scouts and coaches as well as cap men. But they also have a GM at the top making sure it all works in harmony. The Cowboys don't have that and it most definitely is a negative and it's absolutely the reason why we don't win anymore.In Dallas, the Front Office does. Jerry is a wallet and a sounding board. Who we acquire is up to the Head Coach. How we do it is up to the Front Office.

[Hostile]

If this organization actually ran in any way like you have convinced yourself that it does, the Roy Williams trade would never have happened.Wade Phillips wanted Roy Williams as a compliment to TO. Jerry goes overboard to acquire players his coaches want. I said it at the time and I say it again. Jerry paid a much higher price than I expected, but I can't fault him for getting the guy his HC wanted. As boozeman correctly pointed out there was dissension in acquiring him over the price paid.

[Chocolate Lab]

If Wade wanted Roy, it was only because Jerry said, "Wade, I'm trading for Roy Williams." And Wade said, "Okay, boss."

Actually, Newy Scruggs said Garrett was the one who pushed Jerry over the edge to make that trade, because teams were doubling TO and Crayton wasn't good enough to make them pay.

And this was about two weeks after the trade was done -- well before it turned out to be such a dud.

That's just funny to say that Wade got all the players and everything he wanted. Wade couldn't even get the O-line coach he wanted... Jerry let Garrett make that hire. Or he just made it himself. Same difference, I guess.

[Hostile]

Honestly guys, you don't see how you are making things seem worse so you feel better somehow?

I actually expected someone to tell me Jerry makes decisions by consulting a psychic or a ouija board.

There isn't a single person in this discussion who could possibly think no other owners or GMs want to know every detail of their team. The difference is Jerry is visible.

I think an example of a poor GM is Vinny Cerato, who every year spent money like crazy and had to renegotiate contracts or cut players and leave their depth thin. The funny thing to me about that is we have so many fans who want us to sign every big name out there too and praised the Eagles to high heaven for doing it this year.

We are not in cap hell. So I really don't care.

[Hostile]

If Wade wanted Roy, it was only because Jerry said, "Wade, I'm trading for Roy Williams." And Wade said, "Okay, boss."

Actually, Newy Scruggs said Garrett was the one who pushed Jerry over the edge to make that trade, because teams were doubling TO and Crayton wasn't good enough to make them pay.

And this was about two weeks after the trade was done -- well before it turned out to be such a dud.

That's just funny to say that Wade got all the players and everything he wanted. Wade couldn't even get the O-line coach he wanted... Jerry let Garrett make that hire. Or he just made it himself. Same difference, I guess.Garrett did. That is 100% true. But if Wade had balked it never would have happened. So I still give the credit for it to the coaches.

[Chocolate Lab]

So why did Jerry hire Houck instead of Mike Solari?

[Hostile]

So why did Jerry hire Houck instead of Mike Solari?Wish I knew, because I wanted Solari if you remember.

[Chocolate Lab]

Didn't know you did, but the important thing is that the head coach did.

Garrett's staff shaping up nicely
10:34 AM Tue, Jan 29, 2008 | Permalink
Tim MacMahon E-mail News tips

So much for the Tuna's raid of Valley Ranch giving Wade Phillips an opportunity to hire "his guys."

If Jerry guy Dave Campo and Dom Capers round out the Cowboys' coaching staff, Phillips will have exactly zero experience working with any of the defensive position coaches. But the Cowboys will be set up awfully well for the eventual transition into the Jason Garrett era.

Garrett reportedly wanted Capers to be his defensive coordinator if he became the head coach in Baltimore. Jerry is on the record saying WR coach Ray Sherman is a "future coordinator" who "knows this system inside and out." So, if Capers comes on board, Garrett's coordinators will already be in the building. And it's not too tough to envision Campo becoming the assistant head coach.

The only assistant the Cowboys hired this off-season that Phillips has worked with before is OL coach Hudson Houck. Their paths crossed briefly in San Diego, but Matt Mosley reported that Phillips wanted to hire ex-Kansas City offensive coordinator Mike Solari but was vetoed by Jerry.

Houck has a lot more experience with Garrett than Phillips, having worked with the red-headed genius during Garrett's playing days in Dallas and his QB coach days with the Dolphins.

The addition of experienced, intelligent coaches could be a great thing for Phillips. But, if the Cowboys don't enjoy enough success to suit the guy making the hires, the transition to the next head coach is setting up to be seamless.

One other nugget that will interest Cowboys fans: I've been told by two different sources that Phillips wanted to hire former Chiefs offensive coordinator Mike Solari to coach the offensive line, but was trumped by owner Jerry Jones, who opted for Hudson Houck

By Matt Mosley (Hashmarks) on ESPN

This entire post just shows that the head coach doesn't call the shots. Or at least not all of them are allowed to.

[Hostile]

Didn't know you did, but the important thing is that the head coach did.

This entire post just shows that the head coach doesn't call the shots. Or at least not all of them are allowed to.So Ray Sheman was our Coordinator and we never knew it?

Wow.

[Chocolate Lab]

:laugh2:

Typical avoidance and obfuscation.

[Hostile]

:laugh2:

Typical avoidance and obfuscation.Nope. I don't agree with Houck over Solari by any wild stretch, but I also don't know any details. Perhaps Solari and Jerry have clashed before and it rankles. I hope not. Perhaps Solari wanted a higher title and more money. It happens.

I like the guy. I wish he was here. I think he's in Frisco and their OL is playing great.

I was merely laughing at how something Jerry wanted, Sherman as OC, is in the same article as the Solari stuff. You don't find that funny? Of course you don't.

[Alexander]

Wade Phillips wanted Roy Williams as a compliment to TO.

LOL

Prove it.

[BraveHeartFan]

Maybe I read this wrong but I thought Jerry's comment about Sherman was more that he was saying Sherman would be a future cordinator, as in general, not necassarily a future one in Dallas.

Maybe I'm missing something on what I read there.

[Hostile]

Maybe I read this wrong but I thought Jerry's comment about Sherman was more that he was saying Sherman would be a future cordinator, as in general, not necassarily a future one in Dallas.

Maybe I'm missing something on what I read there.
Sherman had already been an OC, at Pittsburgh.

[Dfense94]

Maybe I read this wrong but I thought Jerry's comment about Sherman was more that he was saying Sherman would be a future cordinator, as in general, not necassarily a future one in Dallas.

Maybe I'm missing something on what I read there.

I read the same thing. Someone said it best when they said Hostile,Doomsday and others are building strawmen. This isn't about complaining to make ourselves feel better. This is a discussion forum. We're voicing our displeasure over something that is clearly wrong with this team.

[Dfense94]

Sherman had already been an OC, at Pittsburgh.

Jerry hired Wade Phillips to be his head coach. Prior to that, he hired Jason Garrett to be the OC. Are you suggesting Jerry was going to fire Garrett to hire Sherman to be the OC? Or does it become clear to you that Jerry saying Sherman was a "future coordinator" is Jerry's way of praising his new receivers coach?

[Hostile]

Jerry hired Wade Phillips to be his head coach. Prior to that, he hired Jason Garrett to be the OC. Are you suggesting Jerry was going to fire Garrett to hire Sherman to be the OC? Or does it become clear to you that Jerry saying Sherman was a "future coordinator" is Jerry's way of praising his new receivers coach?
Just find it ironic. You don't need any answer beyond that from me.

[Dfense94]

Are you the kid that wears the jersey in Jerrys press box? Is that why you're defending him with these ridiculous stances?

[Hostile]

Are you the kid that wears the jersey in Jerrys press box? Is that why you're defending him with these ridiculous stances?No, but I know someone as close as that kid to Jerry and am not guessing on stuff.

Still disappointed no links to Miss Cleo giving us advice on personnel.

[Dfense94]

No, but I know someone as close as that kid to Jerry and am not guessing on stuff.

Still disappointed no links to Miss Cleo giving us advice on personnel.

Reread the thread. Everyone has intelligently detailed what issues they have with the fake football man Jerry running things. A number of links and quotes have been provided. meanwhile, all you've given is ludicrous statements like "GM's dont have a hand in winning, see Virginia McCaskey" and comments where you suggest you know exactly how hte front office is run, while providing no links or proof yourself.

[Hostile]

Reread the thread. Everyone has intelligently detailed what issues they have with the fake football man Jerry running things. A number of links and quotes have been provided. meanwhile, all you've given is ludicrous statements like "GM's dont have a hand in winning, see Virginia McCaskey" and comments where you suggest you know exactly how hte front office is run, while providing no links or proof yourself.Then feel free to ignore me and believe fairy tales. I was saying the same things 3 years ago and slowly but surely every detail is coming to light exactly as I outlined.

Go figure.

[2233boys]

It never occurred to me that all of my hard work in the weight room and film room was due to the qualifications of my Athletic Director.

Your athletic director brought in coaches that were big in lifting and bringing in character kids with good work ethics. He also likely never went down to your head coach during a game and advised him on anything.

[Dfense94]

Then feel free to ignore me and believe fairy tales. I was saying the same things 3 years ago and slowly but surely every detail is coming to light exactly as I outlined.

Go figure.

What every detail are you talking about? I dont see how anything you've said in this thread has "come to light." If anyone is believing fairy tales, it seems to be you.

[Alexander]

Then feel free to ignore me and believe fairy tales. I was saying the same things 3 years ago and slowly but surely every detail is coming to light exactly as I outlined.

Go figure.
But you still have no idea why Jerry Jones overruled Wade Phillips on Solari.

Funny how that works.

[Hostile]

Your athletic director brought in coaches that were big in lifting and bringing in character kids with good work ethics. He also likely never went down to your head coach during a game and advised him on anything.Jerry brought in Jason Garrett. So something must be right at Valley Ranch. Go figure.

I saw our AD on the sidelines a couple of times. Never bothered to watch who he talked to. I wouldn't have cared if it was the HC and doubt anyone else would have either.

Pat Bowlen on the sidelines.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l85ev36uLN1qz8rb6o1_500.png

Tom Benson on the sidelines posing for a family photo during a game.

http://blog.nola.com/celebrities/2009/07/large_bensonfamily.JPG

Arthur Blank on the sidelines.

http://atlantafalcons.contentquake.com/files/2007/08/blank1.jpg

Mark Murphy on the sidelines, signing autographs.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/gallery_images/photos/001/166/373/132810771_crop_450x500.jpg?1321318005

Jeff Lurie on the sidelines.

http://www.phillygameday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lurie_westbrook-291x300.jpg

Jerry Richardson at Training Camp visiting with players.

http://juiceknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ap-201107312011726675765.jpg

John Mara on the sidelines at Training Camp with Grandsons.

http://www.timesunion.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=283488&width=628&height=471

Robert Kraft on the sidelines with the very much alive Jon Bon Jovi.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bfpRkyFviaI/TTXqdiUkn-I/AAAAAAAAFhA/SWC4MsvGZnM/s1600/Jon%2BBon%2BJovi%2BRobert%2BKraft.jpg


I could go on, but it will be ignored.

[Hostile]

But you still have no idea why Jerry Jones overruled Wade Phillips on Solari.

Funny how that works.Do you know why? Genuinely interested rather than just being a jerk like you are.

[Hostile]

What every detail are you talking about? I dont see how anything you've said in this thread has "come to light." If anyone is believing fairy tales, it seems to be you."Three years ago."

You wouldn't know since you joined the forum this month.

[wileedog]

Wade Phillips wanted Roy Williams as a compliment to TO. Jerry goes overboard to acquire players his coaches want. I said it at the time and I say it again. Jerry paid a much higher price than I expected, but I can't fault him for getting the guy his HC wanted. As boozeman correctly pointed out there was dissension in acquiring him over the price paid.

So when Wade Phillips wanted Roy Williams Jerry bent so over backwards to get him he blew tons of picks and signed him to a ridiculous extension to make it happen.

But when Wade wanted Dan Reeves brought in Jerry let him walk over a time clock clause.

You have really backed yourself into a corner in this thread Hos. So far you have argued that:


We haven't won, big deal (as if a 16 year run of almost complete frustration is just a matter of a few bad bounces).
We are not in salary cap hell, so point another reason #1 isn't that big a deal (I would happily take hell right now with a few more trophies in the case the past decade and a half).
GM's aren't important, they are all just figureheads.
Just about every owner is involved in the day to day nitty gritty business of the team the way Jerry is
The team makes decisions based on the football organization, not Jerry, when there are countless accounts of Jerry over-riding coaches and staff to get 'his' guy. Not to mention all the times when Jerry has simply fallen in love with players and overpaid them in ways most GMs would not.


JMO, but you seem to be working very hard to make the facts fit your theories, and not the other way around.

[Hostile]

So when Wade Phillips wanted Roy Williams Jerry bent so over backwards to get him he blew tons of picks and signed him to a ridiculous extension to make it happen.

But when Wade wanted Dan Reeves brought in Jerry let him walk over a time clock clause.

You have really backed yourself into a wall in this thread Hos. So far you have argued that:

We haven't won, big deal (as if a 16 year run of almost complete frustration is just a matter of a few bad bounces).
We are not in salary cap hell, so point #1 isn't that big a deal.
GM's aren't important, they are all just figureheads.
Just about every owner is involved in the day to day nitty gritty business of the team the way Jerry is
The team makes decisions based on the football organization, not Jerry, when there are countless accounts of Jerry over-riding coaches and staff to get 'his' guy. Not to mention all the times when Jerry has simply fallen in love with players and overpaid them in ways most GMs would not.
JMO, but you seem to be working very hard to make the facts fit your theories, and not the other way around.Dan Reeves walked away from the deal. Take him at HIS word on it.

[Dfense94]

Do you know why? Genuinely interested rather than just being a jerk like you are.

Because he's a megalomaniac that appoints coaches but doesn't empower them. Sad reality.

[Alexander]

Do you know why? Genuinely interested rather than just being a jerk like you are.
No, I don't know.

But I could make up an imaginary "source" if I thought it actually mattered.

[wileedog]

Dan Reeves walked away from the deal. Take him at HIS word on it.

So Jerry would rather give tens of millions of guaranteed dollars to a WR his scouts were telling him wasn't worth it then waive a stupid time clock clause for a borderline HOF HC?

I don't care who walked away, if Jerry wanted Reeves (because his HC thought it was necessary) he would have a nice cushy office in VR and we both know it.

[Risen Star]

What amazes me is the notion that a GM isn't important. The thinking that as long as Jerry defers to his scouts and coaches, it's all good. A GM is irrelevant.

I guess if you want to support Jerry you pretty much have to think like that.

All owners are on the sidelines at some point. Usually pre-game. Some even show up at the end of a game.

Show me one that's right along side the head coach in the 1st quarter helping him with his job.

I want to see that picture.

Might I suggest photoshop.

[Hostile]

No, I don't know.

But I could make up an imaginary "source" if I thought it actually mattered.Figured as much. How much money would you like to wager on whether I can get you proof Wade Phillips signed off on acquiring Roy Williams? Put your money where your festering gob is.

[tupperware]

What amazes me is the notion that a GM isn't important. The thinking that as long as Jerry defers to his scouts and coaches, it's all good. A GM is irrelevant.

I guess if you want to support Jerry you pretty much have to think like that.

All owners are on the sidelines at some point. Usually pre-game. Some even show up at the end of a game.

Show me one that's right along side the head coach in the 1st quarter helping him with his job.

I want to see that picture.

Might I suggest photoshop.
:laugh2:

[Hostile]

What amazes me is the notion that a GM isn't important. The thinking that as long as Jerry defers to his scouts and coaches, it's all good. A GM is irrelevant.

I guess if you want to support Jerry you pretty much have to think like that.

All owners are on the sidelines at some point. Usually pre-game. Some even show up at the end of a game.

Show me one that's right along side the head coach in the 1st quarter helping him with his job.

I want to see that picture.

Might I suggest photoshop.I am not saying a GM is not important. I am saying we have football guys handling the exact same functions any other GM in the NFL has and the team is functioning well right now.

I don't use photoshop. I don't care enough about the subject to even bother to go look for an owner talking to his coach. Especially since our coach wasn't upset by the conversation. I mean it's cool and all that you guys are offended for him, but it's kind of pointless.

[Hostile]

So Jerry would rather give tens of millions of guaranteed dollars to a WR his scouts were telling him wasn't worth it then waive a stupid time clock clause for a borderline HOF HC?

I don't care who walked away, if Jerry wanted Reeves (because his HC thought it was necessary) he would have a nice cushy office in VR and we both know it.That is ridiculous. Dan Reeves said the offer was more than enough money. In other words it was going to happen financially. He walked away. Jerry didn't send him away.

[tupperware]

http://sleekupload.com/uploads/5/1201986057_3635.jpg

[Risen Star]

I am not saying a GM is not important. I am saying we have football guys handling the exact same functions any other GM in the NFL has and the team is functioned well right now.

I don't use photoshop. I don't care enough about the subject to even bother to go look for an owner talking to his coach. Especially since our coach wasn't upset by the conversation. I mean it's cool and all that you guys are offended for him, but it's kind of pointless.

Well you did ask me how a GM effects winning or losing. That it was a foreign idea to you how a GM can effect execution on the field.

But I'll play along.

Who acts as our GM? Who is the football guy that does that?

[Risen Star]

http://sleekupload.com/uploads/5/1201986057_3635.jpg (http://sleekupload.com/uploads/5/1201986057_3635.jpg)

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-004.gif

I stand corrected!

[Alexander]

Figured as much. How much money would you like to wager on whether I can get you proof Wade Phillips signed off on acquiring Roy Williams? Put your money where your festering gob is.

Sorry, I don't bet. I have better things to spend money on other than some ridiculous internet bet on a message board.

How about just proving it for the members of this board to validate your assertions?

You are the ones making claims. Not me.

I do not claim to know. You do.

Prove it.

[2233boys]

Jerry brought in Jason Garrett. So something must be right at Valley Ranch. Go figure.

I saw our AD on the sidelines a couple of times. Never bothered to watch who he talked to. I wouldn't have cared if it was the HC and doubt anyone else would have either.

Pat Bowlen on the sidelines.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l85ev36uLN1qz8rb6o1_500.png

Tom Benson on the sidelines posing for a family photo during a game.

http://blog.nola.com/celebrities/2009/07/large_bensonfamily.JPG

Arthur Blank on the sidelines.

http://atlantafalcons.contentquake.com/files/2007/08/blank1.jpg

Mark Murphy on the sidelines, signing autographs.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/gallery_images/photos/001/166/373/132810771_crop_450x500.jpg?1321318005

Jeff Lurie on the sidelines.

http://www.phillygameday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lurie_westbrook-291x300.jpg

Jerry Richardson at Training Camp visiting with players.

http://juiceknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ap-201107312011726675765.jpg

John Mara on the sidelines at Training Camp with Grandsons.

http://www.timesunion.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=283488&width=628&height=471

Robert Kraft on the sidelines with the very much alive Jon Bon Jovi.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bfpRkyFviaI/TTXqdiUkn-I/AAAAAAAAFhA/SWC4MsvGZnM/s1600/Jon%2BBon%2BJovi%2BRobert%2BKraft.jpg


I could go on, but it will be ignored.You know why you didn't see your AD advising the football coach during a game? It isn't his job, just like it isn't Jerry's job.

All not advising the coach during the game thanks fir making the point. Your hero, (and don't deny he isn't your hero, you defend him like he us your daddy) also brought in Switzer, Gailey, and Campo. He also ran off Johnson and Parcells. The jury is still out on Red Ball.

[tupperware]

Well you did ask me how a GM effects winning or losing. That it was a foreign idea to you how a GM can effect execution on the field.

But I'll play along.

Who acts as our GM? Who is the football guy that does that?
http://sleekupload.com/uploads/5/phpf00d.tmp.jpg

[Hostile]

Well you did ask me how a GM effects winning or losing. That it was a foreign idea to you how a GM can effect execution on the field.

But I'll play along.

Who acts as our GM? Who is the football guy that does that?I do not think who the GM is affects winning or losing. I don't see how he could. I have asked repeatedly for an example.

Did Matt Millen's presence cause players to not work hard? Did Vinny Cerato cause guys to do drugs? Did Scott Pioli cause injuries?

Teams operate well or they don't. You guys are NOT showing me where we are not currently operating well. How is the way we are operating contributing to the loss to the Lions for example?

Is that too much to ask? Because from where I sit, the loss is on the players and the coaches and they are good enough to have won that game. What did Jerry Jones do in the owner's box that led to an Interception? Did he fart and they could smell if clear to the field?

There either has to be something or you are hunting for the boogie man under the bed.

Jerry Jones is the GM, he is one part of a team of decision makers and input can come from scouts and coaches as well. All ideas are respected, discussed, and weighed. I fail to see how that is a failing system.

Educate me on how having multiple football guys involved in the decision making is bad.

[Hostile]

You know why you didn't see your AD advising the football coach during a game? It isn't his job, just like it isn't Jerry's job.

All not advising the coach during the game thanks fir making the point. Your hero, (and don't deny he isn't your hero, you defend him like he us your daddy) also brought in Switzer, Gailey, and Campo. He also ran off Johnson and Parcells. The jury is still out on Red Ball.No, I didn't see it because I was focused on the game. The way our players were too. I bet none of them cared at all that Jerry spoke to Jason. Just the fans and media who feed the frenzy.

[Alexander]

Pat Bowlen on the sidelines.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l85ev36uLN1qz8rb6o1_500.png (http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l85ev36uLN1qz8rb6o1_500.png)

Tom Benson on the sidelines posing for a family photo during a game.

http://blog.nola.com/celebrities/2009/07/large_bensonfamily.JPG (http://blog.nola.com/celebrities/2009/07/large_bensonfamily.JPG)

Arthur Blank on the sidelines.

http://atlantafalcons.contentquake.com/files/2007/08/blank1.jpg (http://atlantafalcons.contentquake.com/files/2007/08/blank1.jpg)

Mark Murphy on the sidelines, signing autographs.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/gallery_images/photos/001/166/373/132810771_crop_450x500.jpg?1321318005

Jeff Lurie on the sidelines.

http://www.phillygameday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lurie_westbrook-291x300.jpg (http://www.phillygameday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lurie_westbrook-291x300.jpg)

Jerry Richardson at Training Camp visiting with players.

http://juiceknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ap-201107312011726675765.jpg (http://juiceknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ap-201107312011726675765.jpg)

John Mara on the sidelines at Training Camp with Grandsons.

http://www.timesunion.com/mediaManager/?controllerName=image&action=get&id=283488&width=628&height=471

Robert Kraft on the sidelines with the very much alive Jon Bon Jovi.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bfpRkyFviaI/TTXqdiUkn-I/AAAAAAAAFhA/SWC4MsvGZnM/s1600/Jon%2BBon%2BJovi%2BRobert%2BKraft.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bfpRkyFviaI/TTXqdiUkn-I/AAAAAAAAFhA/SWC4MsvGZnM/s1600/Jon%2BBon%2BJovi%2BRobert%2BKraft.jpg)


I could go on, but it will be ignored.

Not a one is doing this.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a463/da_acesta/cowinsider_1225spo004.jpg

[Hostile]

Sorry, I don't bet. I have better things to spend money on other than some ridiculous internet bet on a message board.

How about just proving it for the members of this board to validate your assertions?

You are the ones making claims. Not me.

I do not claim to know. You do.

Prove it.Figured as much. I want money on the line because I am anxious to shut up all of you guys who think I don't have any sources but haven't got the balls to risk anything.

Oh, and it won't be ridiculous. It will take a lot of money and someone else is going to hold both halves of the bet and pay the winner. Until that time, there will be no proving it because I'm not the person attacking someone else's credibility. You are.

[2233boys]

No, I didn't see it because I was focused on the game. The way our players were too. I bet none of them cared at all that Jerry spoke to Jason. Just the fans and media who feed the frenzy.

You didn't see it because it never happened. Only in Jerrah's world is something like that appropriate, oh wait, and at the Zone.