We need to go after a top DB, how many years has our secondary been crap now?

[Blitz88]

Every single season it seems like the exact same story, we have a great offense, and a decent defense up front, but our secondary is absolute crap. I mean it, every single season it seems to come down to our corners getting burnt. I do agree that you probably gotta take DeCastro if he's available, but my goodness we need to focus on getting good DB's, whether in the draft or FA.

I know Claibourne and Kilepatrick (SP?) are the top two CB's in the draft, but do not forget about Dennard, he may not get as much media hype as the other two, and he may not be as big, but this kid can play. Im just hoping, praying, that we get some decent corners for once, Newman has never been stellar IMO, and Jenkins has been pretty good, but obviously injury prone.

With the defense that Rob Ryan has installed in Dallas, you HAVE to have good cover corner's because of the man to man they must play with our blitzes, or else the same thing will keep happening over and over.... big pass plays.

That's why Rex has Revis and Cromartie in NY, those corners can actually stay with their man.

When was the last time we had a good secondary? It seems like over a lifetime ago. We've had guys like Alan Ball having to play a big role at CB for us, and it just fails over and over. Remember Jacque Reeves? *Shutters*

I'll admit, I'm not the smartest when it comes to what would be best for us in the long run in a draft, or what is the smart pick to take, etc... But my God, if we never get decent CB's, we will continue to come up short at the end of the season. Am I just an idiot on this?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Before we can decide to take a CB, I think we have to decide what kind of defense we are going to run with. The scheme of the defense should dictate what kind of CB you take.

For example, Dennard is a 5'10" guy. Claiborne is 6'0" and Kirkpatrick is 6'3". They are all going to bring something different to the table but in order for them to work for us, they have to bring what our defense needs to the table or they are not worth the pick.

BTW, welcome to the board and good first post.

[tm1119]

There are plenty of good options in the 2nd at cb. Some I really don't value much below Kirkpatrick. If we can land Minnifield, Jenkins, Heyward, or Boykin in the 2nd I'd be very happy.

[RoyTheHammer]

I don't know that Dre is the second best CB in the draft, either. Alot of people are saying he's too stiff in the hips to be as effective in the pros. Seems like he would be a good press corner, but wouldn't be an elite cover guy.

[Doomsday101]

There are plenty of good options in the 2nd at cb. Some I really don't value much below Kirkpatrick. If we can land Minnifield, Jenkins, Heyward, or Boykin in the 2nd I'd be very happy.

True. I will say that Kirkpatrick size at 6'3" makes him a good match up with many of the big and tall WR in the NFL. Hard to cover a guy like 6'5" Calvin Johnson when you are a 5'10" CB

[supercowboy8]

you can just say lets draft this CB because he is good.
You have to look at the system our defense runs and the system that CB best fits.
Take Kirkpatrick for example. He plays in a zone cover scheme in Alabama and has stiff hips. His size is nice but not for man cover. In Man cover you have to have fluid hips, great speed, and and smarts. Size isn't a major issue. Look at Revis and Flowers. Both are smaller CBs but are great man cover CBs because of speed and fluid hips.
Ryan likes to put his CBs on an island so that is man cover and not much in zone.

Top CBs for Dallas in this draft that are the best in man cover are
Morris Claiborne
Janoris Jenkins
Chase Minnifield
Brandon Boykin
Heyward.

[Blitz88]

Supercowboy, couldnt you put Denard in that list as well? It seemed to me that he was great at man coverage, I thought that's why nobody threw the ball his way at Nebraska. Im probably completely off, once again I don't have the best knowledge with these things.

[BrAinPaiNt]

you can just say lets draft this CB because he is good.
You have to look at the system our defense runs and the system that CB best fits.
Take Kirkpatrick for example. He plays in a zone cover scheme in Alabama and has stiff hips. His size is nice but not for man cover. In Man cover you have to have fluid hips, great speed, and and smarts. Size isn't a major issue. Look at Revis and Flowers. Both are smaller CBs but are great man cover CBs because of speed and fluid hips.
Ryan likes to put his CBs on an island so that is man cover and not much in zone.

Top CBs for Dallas in this draft that are the best in man cover are
Morris Claiborne
Janoris Jenkins
Chase Minnifield
Brandon Boykin
Heyward.


And the best guy is the one we are out of range of drafting in Morris.
The next guy is a character question.

The next two on the list however do have my interest and hopefully one of them will be sitting there when we are up in the 2nd round.

[Doomsday101]

you can just say lets draft this CB because he is good.
You have to look at the system our defense runs and the system that CB best fits.
Take Kirkpatrick for example. He plays in a zone cover scheme in Alabama and has stiff hips. His size is nice but not for man cover. In Man cover you have to have fluid hips, great speed, and and smarts. Size isn't a major issue. Look at Revis and Flowers. Both are smaller CBs but are great man cover CBs because of speed and fluid hips.
Ryan likes to put his CBs on an island so that is man cover and not much in zone.

Top CBs for Dallas in this draft that are the best in man cover are
Morris Claiborne
Janoris Jenkins
Chase Minnifield
Brandon Boykin
Heyward.


Kirkpatrick: He is not a zone guy

Man Coverage: Possesses prototypical size and strength combination to lock down NFL receivers on the outside. Long arms and attitude give him a chance to be very good in press role. Plays with natural bend and fair foot quickness in his backpedal. Hips are fluid for his size, opens them up quickly out of pedal to keep inside position while running down the sideline. Recovery speed from double-moves and pick plays is more than adequate, does not give much ground trailing on crossing routes. Can be overaggressive landing his punch in press, giving up inside position, losing his balance, or even falling down.

Zone Coverage: Mainly used in man, but flashes playmaking ability in zones, as well. Uses his size and length to close and wrap effectively after the catch. Reads quarterback when playing off, baits him to make the underneath throw then closes to make the interception or a big hit to dislodge ball from receiver. Uses length to knock away touch passes behind him and in front of the safety.

Ball Skills: Strong enough to win jump balls down the sideline or 50-50 balls over the middle. Good hand-eye coordination to knock away passes in front of receivers with off hand. Does not find the ball quickly when receiver turns to look, overruns plays too regularly. Gambles on interceptions instead of securing the tackle.

Run Support: Very physical outside, pushes aside smaller wideouts easily and does not back down from confrontations with larger players. Willing to add himself to piles. Good hustle and chase downfield to help teammates. Typically keeps outside leverage but will get aggressive, leaving the sideline vulnerable. Needs to consistently break down and keep his feet outside or NFL backs will evade him.

Tackling: Flashes pure strength to stop receivers and running backs in their tracks on the outside, should get stronger over time. Likes to throw his shoulder into receivers to force them out of bounds. Resorts to duck-and-swipe when unnecessary, which may work against college ballcarriers but will cause problems at the next level. Used on corner blitzes due to size/speed combination, forces a lot of quick throws. Willing to go for the strip, especially if ballcarrier already engaged. Negates special teams gunners on punts, stays with them with effort, physicality and speed.

Intangibles: Well-liked teammate who got the nickname "Swag" for his quiet but confident demeanor; referred to Texas as not having "swagger" during his college announcement press conference. Likes to talk on the field to teammates and get the crowd involved when at home. Praised for his strong will and work ethic. Won the team's Bart Starr Most Improved Player Award in the spring of 2011.

[supercowboy8]

Supercowboy, couldnt you put Denard in that list as well? It seemed to me that he was great at man coverage, I thought that's why nobody threw the ball his way at Nebraska. Im probably completely off, once again I don't have the best knowledge with these things.

no from what I see from him he is best at zone, IMO he can be a man cover but not great and not worth a first round pick where he will go.

I saw games of his this year where bigger slower WRs go by him like Alshon Jeffery in the bowl game, over powered him at the line and went right by him for a big catch. Dennard is best when playing in zone.

[supercowboy8]

Kirkpatrick: He is not a zone guy

Go to other sites and see what they say.

Have you seen him play? Last night even, he was in zone for most of the game. He is great in man in college because of his size he can press any CB in college and by the time the WR gets away the QB is forced to throw the ball due to that great defense.
Kirkpatrick is much to long legged and stiff hipped to play man cover and be left on island vs NFL WRs. Just IMO about Kirkpatrick and have seen himplay ever game the last three years.

Here are some others insight
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=40798

Anyways Kirkpatrick is a big physical corver who will be best at play man zone in a cover 2 type system where he can play up and press but then release and not worry about him. IF he has to flip and run vs speed NFL WRs then he will get burnt.

[xwalker]

Every single season it seems like the exact same story, we have a great offense, and a decent defense up front, but our secondary is absolute crap. I mean it, every single season it seems to come down to our corners getting burnt. I do agree that you probably gotta take DeCastro if he's available, but my goodness we need to focus on getting good DB's, whether in the draft or FA.

I know Claibourne and Kilepatrick (SP?) are the top two CB's in the draft, but do not forget about Dennard, he may not get as much media hype as the other two, and he may not be as big, but this kid can play. Im just hoping, praying, that we get some decent corners for once, Newman has never been stellar IMO, and Jenkins has been pretty good, but obviously injury prone.

With the defense that Rob Ryan has installed in Dallas, you HAVE to have good cover corner's because of the man to man they must play with our blitzes, or else the same thing will keep happening over and over.... big pass plays.

That's why Rex has Revis and Cromartie in NY, those corners can actually stay with their man.

When was the last time we had a good secondary? It seems like over a lifetime ago. We've had guys like Alan Ball having to play a big role at CB for us, and it just fails over and over. Remember Jacque Reeves? *Shutters*

I'll admit, I'm not the smartest when it comes to what would be best for us in the long run in a draft, or what is the smart pick to take, etc... But my God, if we never get decent CB's, we will continue to come up short at the end of the season. Am I just an idiot on this?


Good first post.

For this offseason, I hope that they sign a decent FA CB AND draft a CB in the first 3 rounds.

They need the FA because it appears that Rob Ryan does not like to play young players. He played Alan Ball and cut Josh Thomas and Bryan McCann. I don't think that there is any possibility that Alan Ball is physically better than either Thomas or McCann.

The 2012 draft appears to have a long list of CBs that can probably play in the NFL; however, other than Claiborne, none of them appear to be a slam-dunk to be great.

I hope that they draft CBs with high upsides vs ones that are more ready now but have limited upsides. A player like Dennard might be more ready now, but his upside might be more limited than some others.

[robert70x7]

Out of the cornerbacks that will be there within the first round, I would want them in this order: Claiborne, Kirkpatrick, Dennard. Jeffery owned Dennard, as previously mentioned and we need cornerbacks who can press up on receivers that will give the pass rush (or lack of) an extra second to get to the quarterback.

There are some decent cornerbacks available through free agency and I think the Cowboys could get significant upgrades over Newman/Ball with some of these names. These are a mixture of unrestricted and restricted, but most are UFA.

Jason Allen, Zack Bowman, Brandon Carr, Cortland Finnegan, Brent Grimes, Tim Jennings, Jacob Lacey, Richard Marshall, Tracy Porter, Carlos Rogers, Aaron Ross, Terrell Thomas, Greg Toler, Lardarius Webb, Eric Wright.

Webb is restricted and the least likely out of the bunch. I tried to limit the list to players that were under 30, although Rogers is the oldest at 30 years. Rashean Mathis is also free, but he had a bad year and is on the downswing.

If it came down between Dennard and DeCastro, I would take DeCastro. Second tier talent seems to be there for cornerbacks with Minnifield and Boykin off the top of my head.

[Doomsday101]

Go to other sites and see what they say.

Have you seen him play? Last night even, he was in zone for most of the game. He is great in man in college because of his size he can press any CB in college and by the time the WR gets away the QB is forced to throw the ball due to that great defense.
Kirkpatrick is much to long legged and stiff hipped to play man cover and be left on island vs NFL WRs. Just IMO about Kirkpatrick and have seen himplay ever game the last three years.

Here are some others insight
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=40798

Anyways Kirkpatrick is a big physical corver who will be best at play man zone in a cover 2 type system where he can play up and press but then release and not worry about him. IF he has to flip and run vs speed NFL WRs then he will get burnt.

Yes I have seen him play quite a bit and he is not a zone guy. You want to claim that fine but I have seen ample Bama games to know he is a man cover guy and did so last night as well, yes they will play zone but they will lock him in to man coverage as well.

[CCBoy]

And the best guy is the one we are out of range of drafting in Morris.
The next guy is a character question.

The next two on the list however do have my interest and hopefully one of them will be sitting there when we are up in the 2nd round.

I'd throw in for a second round cornerback, as well.

[CCBoy]

Good first post.

For this offseason, I hope that they sign a decent FA CB AND draft a CB in the first 3 rounds.

They need the FA because it appears that Rob Ryan does not like to play young players. He played Alan Ball and cut Josh Thomas and Bryan McCann. I don't think that there is any possibility that Alan Ball is physically better than either Thomas or McCann.

The 2012 draft appears to have a long list of CBs that can probably play in the NFL; however, other than Claiborne, none of them appear to be a slam-dunk to be great.

I hope that they draft CBs with high upsides vs ones that are more ready now but have limited upsides. A player like Dennard might be more ready now, but his upside might be more limited than some others.

I agree on two prominent additions at cornerback. Free agency would take pressure off of where in the draft.

[JackWagon]

Okay ... so even with 2 good corners Rex wasnt able to get his Jets into the playoffs ... and we are gonna get just one in the first round? Or are we gonna overpay for a CB in Free Agency also? BTW ... i think Jenkins will be an okay nickel back .. thats about it.

[supercowboy8]

Yes I have seen him play quite a bit and he is not a zone guy. You want to claim that fine but I have seen ample Bama games to know he is a man cover guy and did so last night as well, yes they will play zone but they will lock him in to man coverage as well.

yeah liek they did in the Florida game this year where he got beat deep mutiple times then they switched to zone and ran finally stopped FLorida and ran away with the game.

[supercowboy8]

Okay ... so even with 2 good corners Rex wasnt able to get his Jets into the playoffs ... and we are gonna get just one in the first round? Or are we gonna overpay for a CB in Free Agency also? BTW ... i think Jenkins will be an okay nickel back .. thats about it.

Are you talking about Janoris Jenkins. The Nickel for him would be awful. You want your nickel CB to bigger and more physical zone type liek Scandrick.

Janoris Jenkins is the best pure man cover CB in the draft. Has amazing speed and great hips to turn and run with anyone and mirror any WR.

[supercowboy8]

Okay ... so even with 2 good corners Rex wasnt able to get his Jets into the playoffs ... and we are gonna get just one in the first round? Or are we gonna overpay for a CB in Free Agency also? BTW ... i think Jenkins will be an okay nickel back .. thats about it.

but he was able to get them to back to back AFC championship games before this year.

[Doomsday101]

yeah liek they did in the Florida game this year where he got beat deep mutiple times then they switched to zone and ran finally stopped FLorida and ran away with the game.

Yes he had a bad game vs Florida when he went up aginst Andre Debose and yet is still the 2nd best prospect at CB. Bama does play some zone they also play a lot of man coverage and Kirkpatrick often is manned up vs the top WR.

You calling him a zone CB is your opinion not shared by all.

[supercowboy8]

Yes he had a bad game vs Florida when he went up aginst Andre Debose and yet is still the 2nd best prospect at CB. Bama does play some zone they also play a lot of man coverage and Kirkpatrick often is manned up vs the top WR.

You calling him a zone CB is your opinion not shared by all.

it might not be shared by all but it is by many. I don't see him being a shut down CB in a defense that plays man cover. Where he is going to be drafted that better be what he becomes. He might be a good CB in man, not saying he can't play man, just saying he is far and away better as a zone CB and where he will be drafted he will not live up to being as a man cover CB.

To me drafting Kirkpatrick that high he should be left on a island but I don't see it whith his speed and hips. He will be great if drafted by a zone defense team. Where he can have a real good Safety playing over top of him in zone like Alabama did so many times this year.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Okay ... so even with 2 good corners Rex wasnt able to get his Jets into the playoffs ... and we are gonna get just one in the first round? Or are we gonna overpay for a CB in Free Agency also? BTW ... i think Jenkins will be an okay nickel back .. thats about it.

The age old question right? I tend to agree with you on this, or at least, what I think you might be trying to get at.

Of the 12 teams in the playoffs, I think that really only GB, NE and NO had poor defenses. All the rest either had decent defenses or defenses that came around towards the end of the season (Detroit, Denver, GMen). Of those 9 teams who do not do it with Offense (teams not named Packers, Pats or Saints), 7 of those 9 teams were in the top 10 in sacks in the NFL Defensively. The Pats were 14.

Baltimore 3
Giants 4
Cincy 5
Texans 6
9ers 7
Denver 10
Detroit 10

I have long been of the opinion that pressure does more for DB coverage then talent. You simply can't have 6 top DBs on one team. That's what you need if you are going to rely on your CBs and Safeties to get it done. I think you need good CBs and Safeties but I think you absolutely need guys who can pressure the QB. JMO

[robert70x7]

Are you talking about Janoris Jenkins. The Nickel for him would be awful. You want your nickel CB to bigger and more physical zone type liek Scandrick.

Janoris Jenkins is the best pure man cover CB in the draft. Has amazing speed and great hips to turn and run with anyone and mirror any WR.

Jenkins also wins the "Most Likely to Succeed Sam Hurd" drug award.

[RoyTheHammer]

Good first post.

For this offseason, I hope that they sign a decent FA CB AND draft a CB in the first 3 rounds.

They need the FA because it appears that Rob Ryan does not like to play young players. He played Alan Ball and cut Josh Thomas and Bryan McCann. I don't think that there is any possibility that Alan Ball is physically better than either Thomas or McCann.

The 2012 draft appears to have a long list of CBs that can probably play in the NFL; however, other than Claiborne, none of them appear to be a slam-dunk to be great.

I hope that they draft CBs with high upsides vs ones that are more ready now but have limited upsides. A player like Dennard might be more ready now, but his upside might be more limited than some others.

I think Alan Ball played pretty well this season considering the situation, and i don't have any doubt he's a better CB than both Thomas and McCann. Neither of those guys have ever showed much of anything at the position, although McCann was decent on returns.

[Doomsday101]

it might not be shared by all but it is by many. I don't see him being a shut down CB in a defense that plays man cover. Where he is going to be drafted that better be what he becomes. He might be a good CB in man, not saying he can't play man, just saying he is far and away better as a zone CB and where he will be drafted he will not live up to being as a man cover CB.

To me drafting Kirkpatrick that high he should be left on a island but I don't see it whith his speed and hips. He will be great if drafted by a zone defense team. Where he can have a real good Safety playing over top of him in zone like Alabama did so many times this year.

That is your take. Myself I like the kid and would have no problem getting him at 14. He is not considered a zone cover guy and listed as the 2nd best CB in the draft. Come on. :lmao:

[RoyTheHammer]

Are you talking about Janoris Jenkins. The Nickel for him would be awful. You want your nickel CB to bigger and more physical zone type liek Scandrick.

Janoris Jenkins is the best pure man cover CB in the draft. Has amazing speed and great hips to turn and run with anyone and mirror any WR.

Scandrick's measurables are almost identical to Jenkins'.. not sure what you're talking about. Both are 5'10 and 185-190 lbs.

[Deep_Freeze]

The age old question right? I tend to agree with you on this, or at least, what I think you might be trying to get at.

Of the 12 teams in the playoffs, I think that really only GB, NE and NO had poor defenses. All the rest either had decent defenses or defenses that came around towards the end of the season (Detroit, Denver, GMen). Of those 9 teams who do not do it with Offense (teams not named Packers, Pats or Saints), 7 of those 9 teams were in the top 10 in sacks in the NFL Defensively. The Pats were 14.

Baltimore 3
Giants 4
Cincy 5
Texans 6
9ers 7
Denver 10
Detroit 10

I have long been of the opinion that pressure does more for DB coverage then talent. You simply can't have 6 top DBs on one team. That's what you need if you are going to rely on your CBs and Safeties to get it done. I think you need good CBs and Safeties but I think you absolutely need guys who can pressure the QB. JMO

Alot of truth in there. I will say though, the Jets are brought up in this thread, but really their offense was horrible at the end the year and have a questionable at best pass rush, so saying they are an example of a team that shows you don't need great CB play is just not true. They have alot more problems everywhere on their team.

As for right now, I just don't see Dre getting to us, and the rest of the CBs would have to workout very well to move up for consideration at 14. To me, its just if we wanna move up for Dre, otherwise like pointed out above, its about the pass rush.

I figure by draft time, we could see some of those pass rushers move up based on workouts. Hard to say who it will be right now, never know this early, but I can definitely see it happening.

[JackWagon]

Thats exactly what im attempting to get through everyones heads. WE dont need elite corners ... we need elite front 7 players capable of stopping the run and rushing the passers. The ravens and steelers have defenses like this ... there is no reason why we cant have them ... oh but we cant draft .. thats right .. who am i kidding.

BTW i was talking about Mike "Toast" Jenkins ... who everyone thinks is out BESTEST Corner.

[robert70x7]

Thats exactly what im attempting to get through everyones heads. WE dont need elite corners ... we need elite front 7 players capable of stopping the run and rushing the passers. The ravens and steelers have defenses like this ... there is no reason why we cant have them ... oh but we cant draft .. thats right .. who am i kidding.

BTW i was talking about Mike "Toast" Jenkins ... who everyone thinks is out BESTEST Corner.

Jenkins is our best corner.

[supercowboy8]

That is your take. Myself I like the kid and would have no problem getting him at 14. He is not considered a zone cover guy and listed as the 2nd best CB in the draft. Come on. :lmao:
he is listed as a zone guy be several people maybe just not you. I think he can play man but not be a great shutdown CB in man.

So just beacause he ranked #2 must mean he is no matter what the greatest. I guess since Tom Brady wasn;t ranked #1 or #2 QB his draft year must mean he must suck. Get over rankings and get to watch players and know the difference between schemes and systems and what Dallas runs.

For a team like Indy or Tampa, Kirkpatrick would be the #2 CB on their board. He's 5th or so on mine and wouldn't take him at 14.

[supercowboy8]

Scandrick's measurables are almost identical to Jenkins'.. not sure what you're talking about. Both are 5'10 and 185-190 lbs.

ok I said size not measurables. Look at their bulk. Scandrick is about 10 pounds heavier and much stronger and more physical whichis what you want in a nickel CB. Janoris Jenkins is 10 pounds lighter and very slim and not as strong.

[RoyTheHammer]

ok I said size not measurables. Look at their bulk. Scandrick is about 10 pounds heavier and much stronger and more physical whichis what you want in a nickel CB. Janoris Jenkins is 10 pounds lighter and very slim and not as strong.

Sorry, when i hear size, i think size.

If you meant, strength.. that's a different issue.

[supercowboy8]

Sorry, when i hear size, i think size.

If you meant, strength.. that's a different issue.

well thats the way you think it, when I think size I think overall size not just height and wieght.

[Blitz88]

I agree with some of you saying that having a pass rush is of great importance, and of course that willl help the secondary, but even if we upgraded our pass rush, we will still give up big passing plays with Scandrick and Alan Ball as our #2 and #3. In man to man single coverage situations, Scandrick and Ball will still get eaten up like clockwork, there's no doubt about it, we've seen it happen over and over. Scandrick is decent, but the dude has almost zero ball skills. Alan Ball is ok for a backup, but we need a reliable starter.

We NEED to get another great/decent corner to go alongside Jenkins. Our corners have been an issue for about the past decade it seems, its time we made a significant change. It seems to me a decent pass rusher would be easier to add than a top-tier shutdown corner, and with the scheme that Rob runs, we need a shutdown corner.

With OG's being a plenty in this years draft, we can draft one in the third and should be able to make a decent upgrade. Maybe the first we can try to get one of the top two CB, if that doesn't happen, draft the best pass-rusher available, and maybe pick up Dennard/or the Virginia Tech guy in the second.

Once again, I'm probably an idiot when it comes to this stuff lol, but it's about damn time we upgraded our DB's.

[Future]

There are plenty of good options in the 2nd at cb. Some I really don't value much below Kirkpatrick. If we can land Minnifield, Jenkins, Heyward, or Boykin in the 2nd I'd be very happy.
100% agree. Especially if it means we are taking DeCastro in the first.

[Blitz88]

I still think Dennard would be a solid pick, I can understand not wanting to take him at #14 though. He's shorter than the other big CB's in the draft, but the dude is very physical, and has got some speed on him. I do remember watching him shutdown Blackmon of OSU the entire second half of their game this year. Minniefield doesn't look too bad either, and if we could snag him in the second, I think I'd probably be pretty pleased with it. IDK, there's something about Dennard I really like though, he seems like prince amukamara, only better.

Of course, if we somehow were able to get Dre Kirkpatrick, I'd take him easily over the others, but I don't think that's gonna happen.

[supercowboy8]

I still think Dennard would be a solid pick, I can understand not wanting to take him at #14 though. He's shorter than the other big CB's in the draft, but the dude is very physical, and has got some speed on him. I do remember watching him shutdown Blackmon of OSU the entire second half of their game this year. Minniefield doesn't look too bad either, and if we could snag him in the second, I think I'd probably be pretty pleased with it. IDK, there's something about Dennard I really like though, he seems like prince amukamara, only better.

Of course, if we somehow were able to get Dre Kirkpatrick, I'd take him easily over the others, but I don't think that's gonna happen.

umm you must be confused, OK ST. never played Nebraska this year.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/380077/year/2011/justin-blackmon

[RoyTheHammer]

well thats the way you think it, when I think size I think overall size not just height and wieght.

Height + Weight = Size

lol

[supercowboy8]

Height + Weight = Size

lol

so does bulk and strength

If you see two guys both 6 feet, one is slim and at 185 and the other is 195 but alittle wider and bulkier, are you going to say they are the same size. No the guy that has more bulk is bigger.

This is the difference between Janoris Jenkins and Scandrick

[Aliencowboy]

What Dennard offers can be had in the 2nd round.

Dre Kirk and Claibourne are elite. If Dre K drops, we are really
lucky to get him, yes, moving up a spot or two would be worth him.

Coples could drop. Decastro could be there. Either would be fine. Otherwise,
I'd (dare I say) trade back in the first. Take Vontaze B. or Konz.



[QUOTE=Blitz88;4369864]Every single season it seems like the exact same story, we have a great offense, and a decent defense up front, but our secondary is absolute crap. I mean it, every single season it seems to come down to our corners getting burnt. I do agree that you probably gotta take DeCastro if he's available, but my goodness we need to focus on getting good DB's, whether in the draft or FA.

I know Claibourne and Kilepatrick (SP?) are the top two CB's in the draft, but do not forget about Dennard, he may not get as much media hype as the other two, and he may not be as big, but this kid can play. Im just hoping, praying, that we get some decent corners for once, Newman has never been stellar IMO, and Jenkins has been pretty good, but obviously injury prone.

[TheCoolFan]

Not a fan of Dennard at the 14th pick. In terms of value, he's a late 1st rounder at the earliest. Considering what will be available (Claiborne and Kirkpatrick will be gone), I'd go OLine or DLine

[Greatestalltime]

Thats exactly what im attempting to get through everyones heads. WE dont need elite corners ... we need elite front 7 players capable of stopping the run and rushing the passers. The ravens and steelers have defenses like this ... there is no reason why we cant have them ... oh but we cant draft .. thats right .. who am i kidding.

BTW i was talking about Mike "Toast" Jenkins ... who everyone thinks is out BESTEST Corner.
Jenkins is ranked 22 nd in league in burn rate. A measure if db effectiveness. Number if catches a corner allows vs balls thrown at him.

[ZeroClub]

The age old question right? I tend to agree with you on this, or at least, what I think you might be trying to get at.

Of the 12 teams in the playoffs, I think that really only GB, NE and NO had poor defenses. All the rest either had decent defenses or defenses that came around towards the end of the season (Detroit, Denver, GMen). Of those 9 teams who do not do it with Offense (teams not named Packers, Pats or Saints), 7 of those 9 teams were in the top 10 in sacks in the NFL Defensively. The Pats were 14.

Baltimore 3
Giants 4
Cincy 5
Texans 6
9ers 7
Denver 10
Detroit 10

I have long been of the opinion that pressure does more for DB coverage then talent. You simply can't have 6 top DBs on one team. That's what you need if you are going to rely on your CBs and Safeties to get it done. I think you need good CBs and Safeties but I think you absolutely need guys who can pressure the QB. JMO

True, but let's not forget that the Packers, Pats and Saints are probably the top three teams going into the playoffs. My thinking is -- Why not model your club after the top three teams rather than the bottom 9 playoff teams?

With so many needs on this Cowboys team, I think the Cowboys should focus on building an elite offense first .... The elite offense is a greater priority, because you can win with one of those, as evidenced by the Packers, Patriots, and Saints.

[supercowboy8]

True, but let's not forget that the Packers, Pats and Saints are probably the top three teams going into the playoffs. My thinking is -- Why not model your club after the top three teams rather than the bottom 9 playoff teams?

With so many needs on this Cowboys team, I think the Cowboys should focus on building an elite offense first .... The elite offense is a greater priority, because you can win with one of those, as evidenced by the Packers, Patriots, and Saints.

So are the 49ers, Ravens, and Texans, why not model your club after those three which all have a very very good defense.
An elite defense is a greater priority because you can win with one of those as evidenced by the Packers last year, the 49ers, Ravens, and Texans this year.

OUr offense isn't to far away form elite. Bring back Robinson and add a OL or two and we are there. But the defense is far and away from being elite.

[Frozen700]

If not for the Drug issue...Janoris is the best corner in this draft....

I say we take the gamble on him....he is to good

Dre..i love his attitude..cocky as hell, and a good corner...i would be happy with either

[supercowboy8]

If not for the Drug issue...Janoris is the best corner in this draft....

I say we take the gamble on him....he is to good

Dre..i love his attitude..cocky as hell, and a good corner...i would be happy with either

I agreee with you on Jenkins. The guy hasn't been in naytrouble in the past year. Only had two issues while in Florida. Not like he was arrested for fighting, DUI, beating, or rape.

I remember a draft pick Dallas could have made a few years ago, A great WR but had charcter issues and was caught with smoking some "herb" and dropped in the draft and jerry skipped on this said WR in the draft.
I think we all know who I'm talking about.

I hope he does fall into the bottom of the first because I would trade up into the bottom of the first and grab him.
Then I would trade some later picks and get back into the 2nd.
If I can walk out the 2nd round with a OLB, Jenkins, and OG then I think I did pretty good.

People talk about Jenkins charcter, I don't know what that means.
I hear he is a good teammate, good in the locker room, and plays hard every down.

[Greatestalltime]

I agreee with you on Jenkins. The guy hasn't been in naytrouble in the past year. Only had two issues while in Florida. Not like he was arrested for fighting, DUI, beating, or rap.

I remember a draft pick Dallas could have made a few years ago, A great WR but had charcter issues and was caught with smoking some "herb" and dropped in the draft and jerry skipped on this said WR in the draft.
I think we all know who I'm talking about.

I hope he does fall into the bottom of the first because I would trade up into the bottom of the first and grab him.
Then I would trade some later picks and get back into the 2nd.
If I can walk out the 2nd round with a OLB, Jenkins, and OG then I think I did pretty good.

People talk about Jenkins charcter, I don't know what that means.
I hear he is a good teammate, good in the locker room, and plays hard every down.
Rap is no crime. Many enjoy it.

[supercowboy8]

Rap is no crime. Many enjoy it.

yeah, I meant rape, my bad

[Doomsday101]

I agreee with you on Jenkins. The guy hasn't been in naytrouble in the past year. Only had two issues while in Florida. Not like he was arrested for fighting, DUI, beating, or rape.

I remember a draft pick Dallas could have made a few years ago, A great WR but had charcter issues and was caught with smoking some "herb" and dropped in the draft and jerry skipped on this said WR in the draft.
I think we all know who I'm talking about.

I hope he does fall into the bottom of the first because I would trade up into the bottom of the first and grab him.
Then I would trade some later picks and get back into the 2nd.
If I can walk out the 2nd round with a OLB, Jenkins, and OG then I think I did pretty good.

People talk about Jenkins charcter, I don't know what that means.
I hear he is a good teammate, good in the locker room, and plays hard every down.

He is still a risk and due to that will likely fall in the draft. I don't doubt his ability as a cover guy but teams will look closely at him. While many think smoking weed is no big deal (and I agree) it is a big deal when you flunk a drug test and are suspended, it puts the team in a bind.

Leon Lett was a great player for us but did us no good when he was missing 4 games and half a season because of stupidity. If Jenkins has come to the realization that getting high is not as important as his football career then great but if he hasn't then buyer beware you knew it going in.

[burmafrd]

that is where you need to drop him if there is any doubt at all. If you are SURE he understands that smoking weed can and will kill his career then maybe. But you have to be sure.

[Doomsday101]

that is where you need to drop him if there is any doubt at all. If you are SURE he understands that smoking weed can and will kill his career then maybe. But you have to be sure.

I agree. I'm not saying you don't draft I'm saying you do a lot of one on one interview sessions and you do a lot of back ground checks. If there is even the slightest indication that he is still getting high then you pass on him because it is not worth it to the team.

[Frozen700]

I agreee with you on Jenkins. The guy hasn't been in naytrouble in the past year. Only had two issues while in Florida. Not like he was arrested for fighting, DUI, beating, or rape.

I remember a draft pick Dallas could have made a few years ago, A great WR but had charcter issues and was caught with smoking some "herb" and dropped in the draft and jerry skipped on this said WR in the draft.
I think we all know who I'm talking about.

I hope he does fall into the bottom of the first because I would trade up into the bottom of the first and grab him.
Then I would trade some later picks and get back into the 2nd.
If I can walk out the 2nd round with a OLB, Jenkins, and OG then I think I did pretty good.

People talk about Jenkins charcter, I don't know what that means.
I hear he is a good teammate, good in the locker room, and plays hard every down.

Agreed bro....

Here he is vs a 6-4 WR...and 1 of the best coming out of college, back and forth battle, but Jenkins did good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5tH53cLW4U&feature=related


And here are his highlights...i love the way he plays..plays similar to Mike Jenkins, he is very good in man coverage, and has good reaction, also plays the ball well...we need a guy like him on the edge...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R06Kj8ACvIM&feature=related

[Frozen700]

I agree. I'm not saying you don't draft I'm saying you do a lot of one on one interview sessions and you do a lot of back ground checks. If there is even the slightest indication that he is still getting high then you pass on him because it is not worth it to the team.

yeah...but if not, you take the chance.

I am telling you, don't go by mock draft position....this guy is the best Corner coming out...if not for the Weed, i will say this, he would be talked about as a guy who can come in, and start day 1, and compete with NFL WR's(by the media) and i believe it would be true

[Doomsday101]

yeah...but if not, you take the chance.

I am telling you, don't go by mock draft position....this guy is the best Corner coming out...if not for the Weed, i will say this, he would be talked about as a guy who can come in, and start day 1, and compete with NFL WR's(by the media) and i believe it would be true

I don't disagree but again it really has to be looked at not just brushed aside. Once you make that move you are stuck with it. But if the team is willing to look very carefully at him and do their homework then sure. He better be squeaky clean

[Frozen700]

I don't disagree but again it really has to be looked at not just brushed aside. Once you make that move you are stuck with it. But if the team is willing to look very carefully at him and do their homework then sure. He better be squeaky clean

I agree bro....

Here he is vs julio and AJ green

Damn, he is a good talent...did real well especially vs AJ green

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsHc2hr6nPo&feature=related

But like you said..i hope we see something that says he is squeaky clean

[supercowboy8]

I don't disagree but again it really has to be looked at not just brushed aside. Once you make that move you are stuck with it. But if the team is willing to look very carefully at him and do their homework then sure. He better be squeaky clean

didn't Dez drop for charcter issues and Jerry jumped all over him when he had his chance. WHy not do the same for Jenkins. If he falls to the bottom of round, then move up from round 2 and get him.

[supercowboy8]

I agree bro....

Here he is vs julio and AJ green

Damn, he is a good talent...did real well especially vs AJ green

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsHc2hr6nPo&feature=related

But like you said..i hope we see something that says he is squeaky clean

I posted all these videos earlier, he stopped big Alshon Jeffery, AJ Green, and Julio Jones. and some how people still don't want him.

[JackWagon]

Janoris Jenkins == Pacman starter kit ... i dont want us anywhere near him.

[Doomsday101]

I agree bro....

Here he is vs julio and AJ green

Damn, he is a good talent...did real well especially vs AJ green

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsHc2hr6nPo&feature=related

But like you said..i hope we see something that says he is squeaky clean

I have seen him play and I know what kind of player he is. My only concern is what kind of man is he? Is getting high more important than an NFL career because you can't have both.

[Frozen700]

I have seen him play and I know what kind of player he is. My only concern is what kind of man is he? Is getting high more important than an NFL career because you can't have both.

oh ok....i see your concern

But i feel he might have "gotten" it

Especially if we take a chance on him...he might be a guy who will want to prove the NFL wrong

[Frozen700]

I posted all these videos earlier, he stopped big Alshon Jeffery, AJ Green, and Julio Jones. and some how people still don't want him.

I agree bro....he is a huge talent, to pass on.

[supercowboy8]

Janoris Jenkins == Pacman starter kit ... i dont want us anywhere near him.

hahahaaaaa, how do you figure that.

Look at the things Pacman did while in college and compare them to what Janoris has done. Not even close. How about you do some research and read up on the kid before bashing him like that.

[Doomsday101]

didn't Dez drop for charcter issues and Jerry jumped all over him when he had his chance. WHy not do the same for Jenkins. If he falls to the bottom of round, then move up from round 2 and get him.

Dez dropped because of an incident involving Deion Sanders and not telling the truth to the NCAA when asked about it.

Dez has never had any encounter with the law which given the past of his father and mother is pretty amazing that he did not go down the wrong road.

A guy getting stoned and messing with drugs is another issue and one that will get you suspended in the NFL.

[Doomsday101]

hahahaaaaa, how do you figure that.

Look at the things Pacman did while in college and compare them to what Janoris has done. Not even close. How about you do some research and read up on the kid before bashing him like that.

You compared Jenkins situation to that of Dez they are not the same not even close.

[supercowboy8]

I have seen him play and I know what kind of player he is. My only concern is what kind of man is he? Is getting high more important than an NFL career because you can't have both.

He has been fine this year, if he interviews well and shows he has grown up them I think he will skyrocket up the boards.

I will agree that if he doesn't interview good and still acts like the punk he may have been back in 2009 and 2010, then take him off your board, but right now is way to early to say you wouldn't take him.

[supercowboy8]

You compared Jenkins situation to that of Dez they are not the same not even close.

both had charcter concerns as to why they fell down the draft

pacman had even more major concerns and he didn't fall

[Doomsday101]

He has been fine this year, if he interviews well and shows he has grown up them I think he will skyrocket up the boards.

I will agree that if he doesn't interview good and still acts like the punk he may have been back in 2009 and 2010, then take him off your board, but right now is way to early to say you wouldn't take him.

And I haven't. Am I leery yes. We are talking about a kid that was kicked off the Florida team and this past season ejected for throwing a punch in a game and suspended a game while at North Alabama. I think people have every right to be leery of him.

[Doomsday101]

both had charcter concerns as to why they fell down the draft

pacman had even more major concerns and he didn't fall

I agree Pacman more of a concern but Jenkins problems have been more than getting busted with weed. What Dez did is no where close to the issues that Jenkins has delt with. He was kicked off the team by the Head Coach.

[supercowboy8]

I agree Pacman more of a concern but Jenkins problems have been more than getting busted with weed. What Dez did is no where close to the issues that Jenkins has delt with. He was kicked off the team by the Head Coach.

But Urban Meyer said he wouldn't have kicked him off.

Look I like Jenkins and think he is a beast at CB and just what this team needs on the field.
But I don't think Dallas mainly Garrett will take him due to those character concerns, so this is all pointless really. I think Ryan will love to have him and so would Jerry.

[supercowboy8]

And I haven't. Am I leery yes. We are talking about a kid that was kicked off the Florida team and this past season ejected for throwing a punch in a game and suspended a game while at North Alabama. I think people have every right to be leery of him.

he threw a punch and was suspended for a half, yes, but several people want Finnegan for the same reason. Some how that makes Finnegan a physical player and it makes Janoris a skumbag.

[Doomsday101]

But Urban Meyer said he wouldn't have kicked him off.

Look I like Jenkins and think he is a beast at CB and just what this team needs on the field.
But I don't think Dallas mainly Garrett will take him due to those character concerns, so this is all pointless really. I think Ryan will love to have him and so would Jerry.

I think Jenkins is a very talented ball player that is not what is in question. I have seen enough suspensions of Cowboy players to know I don't want to go back to that. Injuries are big enough concern but guys getting into trouble and missing game over stupid things like weed you bet I question.

Myself I would not rule him out but I would not take him at 14.

I think a lot of teams will be leery

[Doomsday101]

he threw a punch and was suspended for a half, yes, but several people want Finnegan for the same reason. Some how that makes Finnegan a physical player and it makes Janoris a skumbag.

I'm not defending Finnegan. Janoris had already gotten into trouble this is only adding fuel to the fire.

[supercowboy8]

I think Jenkins is a very talented ball player that is not what is in question. I have seen enough suspensions of Cowboy players to know I don't want to go back to that. Injuries are big enough concern but guys getting into trouble and missing game over stupid things like weed you bet I question.

Myself I would not rule him out but I would not take him at 14.

I think a lot of teams will be leery

I agree I wouldn't touch him at 14 either manily because of the possible other players there. I will trade up into the bottom 1st or early 2nd to grab him though or if he falls our 2nd round pick then I would.

[Doomsday101]

I agree I wouldn't touch him at 14 either manily because of the possible other players there. I will trade up into the bottom 1st or early 2nd to grab him though or if he falls our 2nd round pick then I would.

2nd rd maybe so if they feel he has gotten his act together.