Day one ready to start OLBs

[supercowboy8]

Alot of poeple want Spencer gone, so we need a SOLB day one.
I hope that alot of you are smart enough to know the difference between SOLB and WOLB. SOLB has more responsibilies to cover and do before the snap and after during the play. But I'm not going to get in to that as I have listed those several times before.
So lets replace Spencer, several thinks you can just draft a pass rusher even though they never played standing up, not good vs the run and has stiff hips and doubt they can drop back into coverage.
Alot of those same people think you can draft a player in the 2rd or later and plug him in day one.
So to any one who think that can happen please show me a list of 3-4 OLBs that was draft 2nd round or later that were day one ready to start. Guys that came in and started day one at 3-4 OLB that wasn't drafted in the 1st round and then tell me why it will work this year, in this draft, for the Cowboys.
If we replace Spencer then it must be a replacement at #14.
Aldon Smith wasn't and still isn't a starter and he was drafted 7th overall.
Spencer wasn't even a starter day one, that how har dthis positon is to translate to.

[Doomsday101]

Alot of poeple want Spencer gone, so we need a SOLB day one.
I hope that alot of you are smart enough to know the difference between SOLB and WOLB. SOLB has more responsibilies to cover and do before the snap and after during the play. But I'm not going to get in to that as I have listed those several times before.
So lets replace Spencer, several thinks you can just draft a pass rusher even though they never played standing up, not good vs the run and has stiff hips and doubt they can drop back into coverage.
Alot of those same people think you can draft a player in the 2rd or later and plug him in day one.
So to any one who think that can happen please show me a list of 3-4 OLBs that was draft 2nd round or later that were day one ready to start. Guys that came in and started day one at 3-4 OLB that wasn't drafted in the 1st round and then tell me why it will work this year, in this draft, for the Cowboys.
If we replace Spencer then it must be a replacement at #14.
Aldon Smith wasn't and still isn't a starter and he was drafted 7th overall.
Spencer wasn't even a starter day one, that how har dthis positon is to translate to.

I don't want him gone but I also do not want to see Dallas over pay for him either.

[dallasfaniac]

Off the top of my head, Lamarr Woodley could have been a starter but definately showed them enough year one to name him starter the next year.

[Dcowboy84]

you make a valid point, however i think there would be different circumstances this year, depending on the player taken

when we got Spencer we still had Greg Ellis here who believed he could start, and ended up being comeback player of the year that season.

Spencer was also transitioning from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. we have to remember not all guys just jump in and do fantastic making that switch. even Ware had some trouble adjusting with some aspects of that move.

Aldon Smith is the same situation, making the move from DE to OLB. and when he's in from the games i've seen he is mainly rushing the passer and not doing the full load of a 3-4 OLB right now. so he's probably progressing as expected, if not better than expected based on his sack #'s.


so back to the main point, if we let Spencer go and draft a guy to be the replacement, he will get a whole offseason to be learning the position of 3-4 OLB, assuming it's a guy that didn't play in a 3-4 in college.

and depending on who you get he may be a guy that already is going to make an impact even though he'll have growing pains.

i think about a guy like Upshaw from Alabama. watching him play i think he could already step in day 1 after going through mini camps and training camp. however if you got a guy in the 3rd round or below you're rolling the dice.


as i started this post out you make a good point, i think it is just going to depend on the situation and the player

[supercowboy8]

I don't want him gone but I also do not want to see Dallas over pay for him either.

so what do you want. Calvin Pace got 6.5 sacks and is worse in coverage and vs the run his last year in Arizona and he got a 7 mill per year from the Jets. What do you think Spencers agent is going to want then.

[RoyTheHammer]

How about instead of looking in the past, we look to the future?

Instead of asking who in the past were ready to be the day one starter coming out of the draft, a better question would be do any of you guys see a guy in the upcoming draft who could replace Spencer day one and come close to matching his production?

I would say there are 3 guys who i know of right now who could possibly come close, but that's a big risk.

They would be Ingram, Upshaw, or Branch.

I'd rather us resign Spencer and focus on more important needs early on in the draft though.

[supercowboy8]

Off the top of my head, Lamarr Woodley could have been a starter but definately showed them enough year one to name him starter the next year.

OK but he wasn't a day one starter. Thats one player that you said he could have been, but the truth is that he wasn't.

[supercowboy8]

How about instead of looking in the past, we look to the future?

Instead of asking who in the past were ready to be the day one starter coming out of the draft, a better question would be do any of you guys see a guy in the upcoming draft who could replace Spencer day one and come close to matching his production?

I would say there are 3 guys who i know of right now who could possibly come close, but that's a big risk.

They would be Ingram, Upshaw, or Branch.

I'd rather us resign Spencer and focus on more important needs early on in the draft though.

Branch no, Ingram and Upshaw yes but those two are round one picks.

[RoyTheHammer]

Branch no, Ingram and Upshaw yes but those two are round one picks.

Why no Branch compared to Ingram or Upshaw?

[Doomsday101]

so what do you want. Calvin Pace got 6.5 sacks and is worse in coverage and vs the run his last year in Arizona and he got a 7 mill per year from the Jets. What do you think Spencers agent is going to want then.

I want a guy with better upside. You say a OLB could not start day 1, not true they may make mistakes but you don't draft for day 1 you draft long term.

[supercowboy8]

I want a guy with better upside. You say a OLB could not start day 1, not true they may make mistakes but you don't draft for day 1 you draft long term.
you do both in the 1st round, Jerry has stated that many times. And if we draft a SOLB and let Spencer walk then we will have to have that guy start day one.

And when saying a OLB can't start day one past the first round is true, why would you start a player that isn't ready and is going to make mistakes and lose you games? So he wasn't ready to start. I'm tlaking about drafting a SOLB that is ready to start and take over for Spencer.

[supercowboy8]

Why no Branch compared to Ingram or Upshaw?
Not at 14, I don't think he is ready day one. Very long and stiff hipped. Never seen him in coverage and get taken off the field alot. Did you see the bowl game where he didn't do very much and was taken off the field to much. Looks more like a natural 4-3 DE. Also he plays to high vs the run.

[Doomsday101]

you do both in the 1st round, Jerry has stated that many times. And if we draft a SOLB and let Spencer walk then we will have to have that guy start day one.

And when saying a OLB can't start day one past the first round is true, why would you start a player that isn't ready and is going to make mistakes and lose you games? So he wasn't ready to start. I'm tlaking about drafting a SOLB that is ready to start and take over for Spencer.

Why Spencer was not a day 1 starter in Dallas. Ellis was playing the position better than Spencer has in any year since he has been here. He is a good player he is not a great player and if someone wants to give him a big contract well so be it but Dallas paying him top money would be foolish.

I know some think Spencer is great but when you have Ware on the opposite side I expect a heck of a lot more than what Spencer has provided.

[supercowboy8]

Why Spencer was not a day 1 starter in Dallas. Ellis was playing the position better than Spencer has in any year since he has been here. He is a good player he is not a great player and if someone wants to give him a big contract well so be it but Dallas paying him top money would be foolish.

I know some think Spencer is great but when you have Ware on the opposite side I expect a heck of a lot more than what Spencer has provided.

Ok then what do you do if Spencer walk, the pick #14 has to be a day one starting OLB because history has shown you can't find a day one starting 3-4 OLB past the first. If a Ryan Kerrigan who was drafted 16th last year in the first round is at 14 then you take him because you absolutely have to have a replacement SOLB if Spencer walks.

[RoyTheHammer]

Not at 14, I don't think he is ready day one. Very long and stiff hipped. Never seen him in coverage and get taken off the field alot. Did you see the bowl game where he didn't do very much and was taken off the field to much. Looks more like a natural 4-3 DE. Also he plays to high vs the run.

:laugh2:

I wasn't talking about Branch as a guy at 14. He'd be a second round guy, but could probably come close to matching the production of the other two at a much better value. He's the same build, athletic enough to make the switch to 34 OLB, and faced double teams constantly at Clemson, but still came through with double digit sacks.

[Doomsday101]

Ok then what do you do if Spencer walk, the pick #14 has to be a day one starting OLB because history has shown you can't find a day one starting 3-4 OLB past the first. If a Ryan Kerrigan who was drafted 16th last year in the first round is at 14 then you take him because you absolutely have to have a replacement SOLB if Spencer walks.

I draft the BPA to fill a need. If I have to I go with a rookie along with Victor Butler but I do not over pay for a player who is not living up to the expectation. Sorry I don't think over paying is ever the right solution.

[supercowboy8]

:laugh2:

I wasn't talking about Branch as a guy at 14. He'd be a second round guy, but could probably come close to matching the production of the other two at a much better value. He's the same build, athletic enough to make the switch to 34 OLB, and faced double teams constantly at Clemson, but still came through with double digit sacks.

no, we need a day one starter, Branch in round 2 might be a good pick but I don't see him becoming a starter day one and has the ability to cover and stuff the run.
Branch is as athletic as Ingram and Upshaw. I like Branch but I think you haev to geta day one starting OLB if Spencer walks.

[jblaze2004]

Upshaw is as close as it gets to a day 1 starter. he plays OLB in the 3-4 in college already. Almost a seasoned vet if he gets picked...lol....He doesn't impress me rushing the passer though. But I rather pick him then overpay for spencer (who seems like a lazy/lack motivation player).

[supercowboy8]

I draft the BPA to fill a need. If I have to I go with a rookie along with Victor Butler but I do not over pay for a player who is not living up to the expectation. Sorry I don't think over paying is ever the right solution.

Ok I agree with that. I would BPA per need but if we sign a OG and CB in FA and Spencer walks then SOLB is the greatest need adn will over rank every ther position. Migh tmake a Upshaw and Ingram sneak up the draft board.

[RoyTheHammer]

ingram is as close as it gets to a day 1 starter. he plays OLB in the 3-4 in college already. Almost a seasoned vet if he gets picked...lol....He doesn't impress me rushing the passer though. But I rather pick him then overpay for spencer (who seems like a lazy/lack motivation player).

So you would rather waste our first round pick on a pass rusher who doesn't rush the passer well, when we have so many other areas to fill?

lol.. come on now, and Spencer is anything but lazy. You must not pay attention to him on the field.

[Doomsday101]

no, we need a day one starter, Branch in round 2 might be a good pick but I don't see him becoming a starter day one and has the ability to cover and stuff the run.
Branch is as athletic as Ingram and Upshaw. I like Branch but I think you haev to geta day one starting OLB if Spencer walks.

No you don't, Spencer was a 1st rd draft choice for us did he start day 1? No he didn't

[supercowboy8]

Upshaw is as close as it gets to a day 1 starter. he plays OLB in the 3-4 in college already. Almost a seasoned vet if he gets picked...lol....He doesn't impress me rushing the passer though. But I rather pick him then overpay for spencer (who seems like a lazy/lack motivation player).

You mean Upshaw, right?

Even though Ingram could be a day one starter since he does play OLB, DE and DT and drop sback into coverage and has INTs this year.

[tm1119]

Melvin Ingram can't come into the NFL and play every down from day 1 either. He doesn't have nearly enough latteral or straight line speed to cover NFL rb's or te's. Pay Spencer something like 3/18 and address bigger needs in the draft. Replacing Spencer with ingram with our 1st round pick would be like spinning tires as someone else here said.

[Doomsday101]

Ok I agree with that. I would BPA per need but if we sign a OG and CB in FA and Spencer walks then SOLB is the greatest need adn will over rank every ther position. Migh tmake a Upshaw and Ingram sneak up the draft board.

I agree that if we can fill some needs in FA and spencer walks then getting an Ingram or Upshaw would be a very good pick. Will they make mistakes sure they are rookies but you draft them not just for next year but for the long haul.

[supercowboy8]

No you don't, Spencer was a 1st rd draft choice for us did he start day 1? No he didn't

he was drafted 28th overall and show al lthe more of a reason to draft this positino early. Its hard to transition too. It takes time this is why you never see a 2nd or later round draft pick start at OLB.

We traded up out of the 2nd round to 28 to get Spencer.
If you draft a player in the 1st he should be ready to start and especially at 14.

[supercowboy8]

Melvin Ingram can't come into the NFL and play every down from day 1 either. He doesn't have nearly enough latteral or straight line speed to cover NFL rb's or te's. Pay Spencer something like 3/18 and address bigger needs in the draft. Replacing Spencer with ingram with our 1st round pick would be like spinning tires as someone else here said.

why do you think Ingram can't move laterally and cover, he has only done just that the last two years in college. The guy drop s back into coverage and covers RB and TEs already.

Straight line speed, look at the auburn game where he is standing in coverage and a hole opens up to the QB, he goes from flat feet straight at the QB in no time and sacks the QB.

[jnday]

I am not sure that there is a improvement in this years draft . I don't agree with letting Spencer walk just to spend the 14th pick on a player that may not be an upgrade . If Upshaw or Ingram blows the combine up and the Dallas staff are sure that it will be a considerable upgrade , pull the trigger .

[Doomsday101]

he was drafted 28th overall and show al lthe more of a reason to draft this positino early. Its hard to transition too. It takes time this is why you never see a 2nd or later round draft pick start at OLB.

We traded up out of the 2nd round to 28 to get Spencer.
If you draft a player in the 1st he should be ready to start and especially at 14.

I agree it takes time it takes some time for most NFL rookies even top draft picks. But that does not mean you pay Spencer as a top OLB. If Dallas can bring him back at a reasonable deal great if not then you look at the bigger picture not just next year.

[jblaze2004]

Or how about Whitney Mercilus (depending on the combine).

Summary: Whitney Mercilus was the most productive pass-rusher in college football in 2011. He led the nation in sacks (16) and forced fumbles (9). It was a record-setting season as Mercilus topped Simeon Rice's school record for sacks in a year. Like Rice, Mercilus is a fabulous athlete. He has a special combination of size, speed and strength to go along with excellent technique. Mercilus also recorded 57 tackles and 22.5 tackles for a loss.

Entering the NFL, Mercilus is an advanced pass-rusher. He got the better of the best tackles he faced this season. Against Ohio State's Mike Adams, Mercilus recorded 1.5 sacks with a forced fumble. The Wisconsin Badgers' powerful offensive line couldn't contain Mercilus. He bull rushed through massive right tackle Josh Oglesby to get a sack-fumble on Russell Wilson. Mercilus also knocked out left tackle Ricky Wagner for part of the game.

Mercilus has a very impressive repertoire of pass rushing moves. He attacks with speed around the edge. As a counter to the speed, he has the strength to execute rip moves and shed offensive linemen. Mercilus has the raw power to get under offensive linemen's pads and bull rush into the pocket. That catches linemen by surprise as they are so cognizant of being ready for his speed rush. Beyond his great physical skill set, Mercilus is an advanced pass-rusher technically.

Mercilus holds up well in run defense. Linemen don't push him around, as he is strong at the point of attack. He also will burst into the backfield to disrupt running plays.

The big question regarding Mercilus is why didn't break into the lineup sooner and why didn't he produce more earlier. In 2009 and 2010, Mercilus combined to record 24 tackles with two sacks and 6.5 tackles for a loss.




Player Comparison: Jason Pierre-Paul. There are a lot of similarities between Mercilus and JPP. Both are fantastic athletes who come to the NFL with a special combination of speed and strength. They also were one-year wonders at the college level. Mercilus had more production than JPP in their final college season, and the latter has turned into one of the best pass-rushers in the NFL.

Right now, it looks like Mercilus should get drafted in the same range as JPP. However, it is possible that Mercilus will be this year's Aldon Smith and surprise some by cracking the top 10. It is not out of the question for him to pass North Carolina's Quinton Coples in the lead up to the 2012 NFL Draft. JPP did that with Derrick Morgan in 2010. Projecting Mercilus to the pros, I see a player similar to Pierre-Paul.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012wmercilus.php


I would love to get someone with that potiential at 14. Could be highway robbery.

[Doomsday101]

I am not sure that there is a improvement in this years draft . I don't agree with letting Spencer walk just to spend the 14th pick on a player that may not be an upgrade . If Upshaw or Ingram blows the combine up and the Dallas staff are sure that it will be a considerable upgrade , pull the trigger .

I would not let Spencer walk just to let him walk but do you think he should get say top 5 money as OLB? Do you think there is a point where you let a guy go before you just hand over the new contract?

[supercowboy8]

I agree it takes time it takes some time for most NFL rookies even top draft picks. But that does not mean you pay Spencer as a top OLB. If Dallas can bring him back at a reasonable deal great if not then you look at the bigger picture not just next year.

I agree but I think that will have to mean your pick at 14 will have to be a SOLB. So people should stop putting these mocks or full offseason plans together where they let SPencer walk and then draft a OLB to replace him in the 3rd. Chances of a 3rd round 3-4 OLB pick starting day one is very very slim

[supercowboy8]

Or how about Whitney Mercilus (depending on the combine).

Summary: Whitney Mercilus was the most productive pass-rusher in college football in 2011. He led the nation in sacks (16) and forced fumbles (9). It was a record-setting season as Mercilus topped Simeon Rice's school record for sacks in a year. Like Rice, Mercilus is a fabulous athlete. He has a special combination of size, speed and strength to go along with excellent technique. Mercilus also recorded 57 tackles and 22.5 tackles for a loss.

Entering the NFL, Mercilus is an advanced pass-rusher. He got the better of the best tackles he faced this season. Against Ohio State's Mike Adams, Mercilus recorded 1.5 sacks with a forced fumble. The Wisconsin Badgers' powerful offensive line couldn't contain Mercilus. He bull rushed through massive right tackle Josh Oglesby to get a sack-fumble on Russell Wilson. Mercilus also knocked out left tackle Ricky Wagner for part of the game.

Mercilus has a very impressive repertoire of pass rushing moves. He attacks with speed around the edge. As a counter to the speed, he has the strength to execute rip moves and shed offensive linemen. Mercilus has the raw power to get under offensive linemen's pads and bull rush into the pocket. That catches linemen by surprise as they are so cognizant of being ready for his speed rush. Beyond his great physical skill set, Mercilus is an advanced pass-rusher technically.

Mercilus holds up well in run defense. Linemen don't push him around, as he is strong at the point of attack. He also will burst into the backfield to disrupt running plays.

The big question regarding Mercilus is why didn't break into the lineup sooner and why didn't he produce more earlier. In 2009 and 2010, Mercilus combined to record 24 tackles with two sacks and 6.5 tackles for a loss.




Player Comparison: Jason Pierre-Paul. There are a lot of similarities between Mercilus and JPP. Both are fantastic athletes who come to the NFL with a special combination of speed and strength. They also were one-year wonders at the college level. Mercilus had more production than JPP in their final college season, and the latter has turned into one of the best pass-rushers in the NFL.

Right now, it looks like Mercilus should get drafted in the same range as JPP. However, it is possible that Mercilus will be this year's Aldon Smith and surprise some by cracking the top 10. It is not out of the question for him to pass North Carolina's Quinton Coples in the lead up to the 2012 NFL Draft. JPP did that with Derrick Morgan in 2010. Projecting Mercilus to the pros, I see a player similar to Pierre-Paul.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012wmercilus.php


I would love to get someone with that potiential at 14. Could be highway robbery.

How is he vs the run and can he drop back into coverage? Alot of people think he is a 4-3 DE only, and he has only had the one year of production, before this year he hasn't done much. Is he just a one year wonder?
Also look at the players and teams he was playing when he got the majority of his stats. Not great competition.

[Doomsday101]

I agree but I think that will have to mean your pick at 14 will have to be a SOLB. So people should stop putting these mocks or full offseason plans together where they let SPencer walk and then draft a OLB to replace him in the 3rd. Chances of a 3rd round 3-4 OLB pick starting day one is very very slim

There will be moves made before the draft and a clearer picture. I have said from the get go that 3 big concerns for me were OL,OLB and CB and if I can address any of those spots in the draft with the 14th pick I'm all for it.

I would also not dismiss a DE in terms of a pass rusher. Ware was consider a tweener out of Troy playing the DE spot.

[dallasfaniac]

There are few positions that you'd draft a player in the 2nd round knowing they'd be a starter so I fail to see your point. There are a bunch of players drafted in later rounds that could have started if they had been handed over the reins, it's just rarely done. When people say that they are letting Spencer walk, it doesn't have to mean that they are then drafting in the 2nd/3rd round for a starting position, it could mean that they are promoting Butler and drafting his backup who could potentially take over the starting position down the road. For the record, I'm not thrilled with any of the OLB in the early rounds of the draft and would probably take a chance on Vontaze making the transition to OLB before I would draft any of them.

[jnday]

I would not let Spencer walk just to let him walk but do you think he should get say top 5 money as OLB? Do you think there is a point where you let a guy go before you just hand over the new contract?

If he ask for too much , let him walk . My point is that you don't burn the 14th pick to replace him if the value isn't there .

[VACowboy]

The guy you're looking for is Shea McClellin. He's strong, quick and relentless, and happened to play OLB and ILB as well as DE his senior year.

[dallasfaniac]

The guy you're looking for is Shea McClellin. He's strong, quick and relentless, and happened to play OLB and ILB as well as DE his senior year.

I like him alot. Most of the OLB in the early rounds don't impress me much.

[Dough Boy]

How is he vs the run and can he drop back into coverage? Alot of people think he is a 4-3 DE only, and he has only had the one year of production, before this year he hasn't done much. Is he just a one year wonder?
Also look at the players and teams he was playing when he got the majority of his stats. Not great competition.

I think people are missing a valid point you are making. We need an OLB that can cover and set the edge in the base 3-4 set. We don't need another Ware, we need a compliment to Ware. Now, when we go nickel we need another Ware. This is the problem that most overlook. The SOLB in the 3-4 is the hardest spot to fill. That guy has to do it all; set the edge, cover TE/RB and play the flat and when we go nickel he has to provide a pass rush.

Ware would make a great SOLB but then he would not rush nearly as much out of the base set unless it's a blitz (defined as sending more than 4 rushers). Spencer is no Ware but 6 sacks from the SOLB is about a reasonable expectation.

I'm an Ingram fan and I like Upshaw but neither is a marked upgrade over Spencer. I do think both can start day one. I think both will have a learning curve which is the speed of the game.

Personally I think more pressure from the ILB's and Ratliff is what is needed. Spencer is what he is, an avg SOLB. No shame in that. I vote to keep Spencer for a reasonable price.

[jblaze2004]

I think people are missing a valid point you are making. We need an OLB that can cover and set the edge in the base 3-4 set. We don't need another Ware, we need a compliment to Ware. Now, when we go nickel we need another Ware. This is the problem that most overlook. The SOLB in the 3-4 is the hardest spot to fill. That guy has to do it all; set the edge, cover TE/RB and play the flat and when we go nickel he has to provide a pass rush.

Ware would make a great SOLB but then he would not rush nearly as much out of the base set unless it's a blitz (defined as sending more than 4 rushers). Spencer is no Ware but 6 sacks from the SOLB is about a reasonable expectation.

I'm an Ingram fan and I like Upshaw but neither is a marked upgrade over Spencer. I do think both can start day one. I think both will have a learning curve which is the speed of the game.

Personally I think more pressure from the ILB's and Ratliff is what is needed. Spencer is what he is, an avg SOLB. No shame in that. I vote to keep Spencer for a reasonable price.

thats the thing. If calvin pace is getting paid 7mil per you know spencer is going to want atleast that much. And that is what im trying to say. I rather replace him then pay him that much coin. If spencer was a hard worker and had great work ethic I might think about it. But come on the guy is playing across a hall of fame OLB who is getting much of the attention and he cannot get atleast 10 sacks?????

[burmafrd]

guys. It is real simple. We MUST have another pass rusher that can balance Ware. Spencer is clearly not that guy. Nor is anyone else on the team now. So we have to get one. Either a DE or a OLB. There does not appear to be a 3-4 DE coming out that is another Seymour, which is very rare anyway. So we have to get a OLB that will do better then Spencer at rushing the passer from the OLB. IT is BS that we need to have a guy there that does more coverage; the Steelers do not; the Pats in their best days did not; so a coverage or play the run well guy is NOT all important.

The #1 way to beat a team in todays NFL that passes all over the place is PRESSURE. SACKS.

[tm1119]

guys. It is real simple. We MUST have another pass rusher that can balance Ware. Spencer is clearly not that guy. Nor is anyone else on the team now. So we have to get one. Either a DE or a OLB. There does not appear to be a 3-4 DE coming out that is another Seymour, which is very rare anyway. So we have to get a OLB that will do better then Spencer at rushing the passer from the OLB. IT is BS that we need to have a guy there that does more coverage; the Steelers do not; the Pats in their best days did not; so a coverage or play the run well guy is NOT all important.

The #1 way to beat a team in todays NFL that passes all over the place is PRESSURE. SACKS.

Have fun getting torches with quick passes and draws/screens. Our corners suck as it is and Lee is our only LB that can cover. If u want to throw another pure edge pass rusher like Ware on the other side its going to make our team worse. It amazes me that people are basing Spencers play purely on his # of sacks. Im not saying he's great but I don't see a better replacement in FA or the draft. There may be equals, but that is just pointless waste of the #14 pick. This team has bigger issues at OG and CB(once Newman gets cut) than Shotgun Spencer.

[dallasfaniac]

LaMarr Woodley was drafted 2nd round the same year as Spencer. They both play the same position and while Woodley has played in 6 fewer games, he has more than doubled the number of sacks as Spencer 48 to 21 and has more interceptions and passes defensed as well. I don't care if Spencer stops the run better, our offense puts us in the lead and forces the other teams to pass to get back in the game. Having said that, none of the OLB do anything for me that early in the draft.

[jnday]

There are few positions that you'd draft a player in the 2nd round knowing they'd be a starter so I fail to see your point. There are a bunch of players drafted in later rounds that could have started if they had been handed over the reins, it's just rarely done. When people say that they are letting Spencer walk, it doesn't have to mean that they are then drafting in the 2nd/3rd round for a starting position, it could mean that they are promoting Butler and drafting his backup who could potentially take over the starting position down the road. For the record, I'm not thrilled with any of the OLB in the early rounds of the draft and would probably take a chance on Vontaze making the transition to OLB before I would draft any of them.

I agree with this post . I would draft someone like Curry in the second and let him share snaps with Butler until he is ready to start in a year or two .

[Doomsday101]

If he ask for too much , let him walk . My point is that you don't burn the 14th pick to replace him if the value isn't there .

I agree. I don't reach for players in the draft. Having said that I do disagree that about the players who likely will fall around the 14th spot such as Ingram or Upshaw.

[jnday]

I agree. I don't reach for players in the draft. Having said that I do disagree that about the players who likely will fall around the 14th spot such as Ingram or Upshaw.

Do you think either of these players would be enough of an improvement to use the 14th pick on them ? I don't , but I have been wrong before . I guess the question that I really want answered is what do these players offer that would improve the position ?

[Doomsday101]

Do you think either of these players would be enough of an improvement to use the 14th pick on them ? I don't , but I have been wrong before . I guess the question that I really want answered is what do these players offer that would improve the position ?

I can't say any of these guys who will get drafted are sure things. I know both guys are very tough physical players and leaders. They are disaplined in their play and smart in being able to read and react.

Can I say for sure no but then I don't think there any sure things.

[visionary]

i would be OK re-signing spencer as long as we do a couple of things:

1) get a true NT
2) get a 3-4 DE that can pressure the QB not just stop the run

i think these 2 are do-able in FA and draft this year

if we just re-sign spencer and upgrade secondary but dont upgrade the front 7, we are in for a long season

[ABQcowboyJR]

Whether we resign Spencer or not, we need to draft a OLB. IMO it needs to be a high pick as well. Player stock is gonna rise and fall tremendously after the combine, but right now i'm riding the Curry train baby. If we could land him in the second I would be thrilled.

[burmafrd]

Have fun getting torches with quick passes and draws/screens. Our corners suck as it is and Lee is our only LB that can cover. If u want to throw another pure edge pass rusher like Ware on the other side its going to make our team worse. It amazes me that people are basing Spencers play purely on his # of sacks. Im not saying he's great but I don't see a better replacement in FA or the draft. There may be equals, but that is just pointless waste of the #14 pick. This team has bigger issues at OG and CB(once Newman gets cut) than Shotgun Spencer.

there is a reason he is called ALMOST ANTHONY

[RoyTheHammer]

there is a reason he is called ALMOST ANTHONY

Who calls him that?

[RoyTheHammer]

Looks like Dont'a Hightower didn't declare yet, so he may stay in school this year.

[jnday]

Whether we resign Spencer or not, we need to draft a OLB. IMO it needs to be a high pick as well. Player stock is gonna rise and fall tremendously after the combine, but right now i'm riding the Curry train baby. If we could land him in the second I would be thrilled.

As things stand now , I would like Curry in the second . 2 or 3 years from now , he could prove to be the best pass rusher in this class .

[RoyTheHammer]

Just watched the championship game.. i think Dont'a made a good decision staying in school another year. Didn't impress me that much in that game.

I think if Upshaw is there at 14, you have to strongly consider him. It'll be a tough decision for sure what we do with our first round pick, depending on if we resign Spencer. If we can't get Spencer back for a reasonable price though, i'd say Upshaw could step right in and be a force for us. He looked explosive in the game. Reminded me of Cameron Heyward last year, another guy i really wanted in the draft. Two guys who just dominate and have relentless motors. These are the type of guys we need to be drafting. Guys who never stop.

[Dash28]

Just watched the championship game.. i think Dont'a made a good decision staying in school another year. Didn't impress me that much in that game.

I think if Upshaw is there at 14, you have to strongly consider him. It'll be a tough decision for sure what we do with our first round pick, depending on if we resign Spencer. If we can't get Spencer back for a reasonable price though, i'd say Upshaw could step right in and be a force for us. He looked explosive in the game. Reminded me of Cameron Heyward last year, another guy i really wanted in the draft. Two guys who just dominate and have relentless motors. These are the type of guys we need to be drafting. Guys who never stop.
I thought I heard he declared to go pro after Kirk and Trent did?

[RoyTheHammer]

I thought I heard he declared to go pro after Kirk and Trent did?

Not that i've heard? :confused:

If so, i hope we get somebody from that D, whether it be at 14, later in the first or in the second round.

[BAT]

OK but he wasn't a day one starter. Thats one player that you said he could have been, but the truth is that he wasn't.

Unrealistic argument. This is the NFL not many rooks are day one starters, regardless of position.

That said Clay Matthews, Ryan Kerrigan and Von Miller are recent SOLB who started their rookie seasons.