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CCBoy

01-12-2012, 01:26 PM

Cowboys 2011 Defense: Part II, Grading The Pass Rush
by Kegbearer

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/1/12/2701577/dallas-cowboys-defense-pass-rush-grade#storyjump

The Dallas Cowboys 3-4 defense is based on applying pressure and designed around the edge-rushing phenomenon DeMarcus Ware. With Rob Ryan now coaching the unit, there is every reason to believe applying pressure and creating havoc along the line is the intended spearhead for Ryan's organized chaos. Part I was a breakdown of sack ratings, but as they say...you can never have enough pass rush.

Judging the effectiveness of a defense's pass rush requires more than just the tally and dispersion of sacks. The Cowboys rank in the Top 10 in total sacks, but there are more signs of carnage left by a penetrating front-seven. Part II will compare some more detailed stats and thus have fewer teams in the study. In my opinion there are four teams that managed consistent 3-4 pressure from their defense. Oddly enough, one of them runs a 4-3 and the other a hybrid 3-4. Let me explain...

At the heart of the 3-4 design is the attempt to disguise and confuse an offense with a potent pass rush from schemes that utilize a variation of the players in the front-seven pressuring gaps. In this way, the Baltimore Ravens and the New York Giants use a virtually 50/50 split between the pressure from their linebackers and defensive linemen. In some cases, the distinction between edge-rushing OLB and DE disappears. In fact, plenty of Ryan's schemes rush three or four players from traditionally 4-3 defensive-line positions, Jay Ratliff and Sean Lissemore lining up as defensive tackles with Ware and/or Anthony Spencer as defensive ends...

visionary

01-12-2012, 01:32 PM

"our front 7 was good enough in 2011"

signed
stephen jones

CCBoy

01-12-2012, 06:14 PM

Up Front
Position Series: D-Line Could Use Upgrades
Nick Eatman

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=D428D9BA-C32A-5B5D-BA21B5CEDC882F3D

...2011 Evaluation: With only three starters at the position, and one of them makes another Pro Bowl, it's hard to suggest a lack of production up front. Ratliff did have another stellar year, and a big improvement from last season when he had no tackles for loss. In 2011, Ratliff had just two sacks, but seven stops behind the line of scrimmage.

As for the backup nose tackle spot, Josh Brent suffered a knee injury late in the year that forced Ratliff into more playing time. Even Ratliff was slowed with a rib injury. Backup lineman Sean Lissemore was impressive in a limited role, providing constant pressure, especially in those games Brent sat out.

The defensive end position showed some improvement early in the year, when Hatcher displayed more pass-rushing skills than we'd seen from him in previous seasons. The new scheme seemed to benefit Hatcher well all year long as he finished with a career-high four sacks, after having only 7.5 in five seasons combined.

Coleman and Spears were solid at times, but it has always been a position that doesn't register a lot of stats because of the constant double-teams defensive ends face....

Eskimo

01-12-2012, 07:51 PM

If you were to ask me whether we have a bigger problem in the front 7 or the secondary on defense I would definitely agree that our biggest problem by far is in the secondary.

I think adding Carter should add another player who should be good in coverage and as a blitzer and this should improve the defense overall.

I am also hoping a big move up in athleticism on the DL by giving more snaps to Lissemore and Geathers and less snaps to Coleman. I am also hoping that if Brent plays more snaps in the base defense that Rat will be fresher as a pass rusher in the 4-man line. The Coaches need to get Rat and Ware more snaps off during the game so they are fresher when we are trying to close out games. I know it is hard to give some rest to your best players but we just have use a deeper rotation if we don't want our defense to collapse at the end of the game.

I do think we should try to add another catalytic player to the front 7 but the biggest need is finding another starting caliber CB. We either have to get one in FA or we have to draft one in the first two rounds. I prefer drafting CBs but would be happy if we could get a guy like Carr or Grimes. I also happen to believe that our line suffers from getting very few true coverage sacks. The only way we'll get better there is to improve the coverage. You also have to remember how good modern offenses are at getting the ball out of the QB's hands - this can negate the best pass rushes that exist. I remember a game between SF and Minn when Chris Doleman and Keith Millard couldn't get close to sniffing Montana because he defeated their pressure by throwing the ball on those 3-step drops.

I also happen to believe there is little benefit from having truly great CBs (unless you are talking Revis or Deion great) - you just need 3 good ones. Teams will pick on you where you are weak so that is why our coverage has been so bad the last two years. The QBs could pick on our slow ILBs or on one of our terrible CBs. We have to eliminate those glaring weaknesses.

CCBoy

01-12-2012, 08:03 PM

MichaelWinicki

01-12-2012, 08:12 PM

batman36

01-12-2012, 09:20 PM

Eskimo

01-12-2012, 11:07 PM

Pretty much what I've said right along...

The weakness of the pass-rush isn't a "Spencer" problem as it is a defensive line problem.

I'm sure folks will say blah, blah,
blah about how the defensive linemen in the 3-4 aren't suppose to be supplying pressure via the pass-rush.

And I say BS to that...

Coleman 1 sack
Ratliff 2 sacks
Spears 1 sack

You want to see an improved pass-rush?

Get a 3-4 DE who can supply some consistent pass-rush.

We may already have 3 such guys on the roster: Lissemore, Geathers and Hatcher. None of them is individually great but I could easily see Lissemore getting 5 next year, Hatcher could chip in 4 and Geathers could chip in 3. Add in 5 more for Ratliff who picks it up a bit now that he gets some more rest. We may not be quite as bad off on the DL as is conventional wisdom but we have to get rid of Coleman. Spears is still a useful part as he is a good rotational guy and can be an absolute load at times for any OL to handle.

What we are missing is a truly dynamic DE like a Richard Seymour or Calais Campbell but those guys are hard to find. We should continue to look for such a player. Last year's draft had two major candidates in Cameron Jordan and JJ Watt. I know the team has been looking for such a player for awhile as there was some buzz in the past about Cam Jordan and Tyson Alualu. If Watt hadn't raced up draft boards after the combine he may have been a candidate with our 2nd round pick. Unfortunately, there is no good candidate this year at pick #14. The best picks for pressure may be one of the OLBs who drops into the top of the 2nd: Bruce Irvin, Curry, Whitney, Hightower or alternatively Ingram in the 1st. One wildcard would be if a guy like Coples drops to us and we decide to play him at DE in our 3-4.

Eskimo

01-12-2012, 11:09 PM

Eskimo, this line is a beauty:

I also happen to believe there is little benefit from having truly great CBs (unless you are talking Revis or Deion great) - you just need 3 good ones.

And two of those need to be able to handle island action well for Rob Ryan's defense to work full speed.

I don't know that we need CBs who are truly island CBs as those are very rare and even rarer to find two of them.

However, we do need CBs who are good enough not to have a bullseye on their chest as soon as the ball is snapped. We need guys who can challenge WRs and make it difficult to complete passes. I'm talking about finding another Mike Jenkins. Add him to the one we have and you can afford to give Oscan a bit of extra help. Now you can get pretty creative with your pressure packages knowing you have guys back there who can make the QB hold the ball long enough for the pressure to get there.

CCBoy

01-13-2012, 10:53 AM

I don't know that we need CBs who are truly island CBs as those are very rare and even rarer to find two of them.

However, we do need CBs who are good enough not to have a bullseye on their chest as soon as the ball is snapped. We need guys who can challenge WRs and make it difficult to complete passes. I'm talking about finding another Mike Jenkins. Add him to the one we have and you can afford to give Oscan a bit of extra help. Now you can get pretty creative with your pressure packages knowing you have guys back there who can make the QB hold the ball long enough for the pressure to get there.

Disagree completely. No one is saying shutdown, just able to stick like glue and even make short passes contested on a regular basis. There are those in the NFL. A scheme such as Rob Ryans, needs consistency of good play by it's corners...when left alone. That part can't be compromised in the Ryan scheme. Or you pay consistently in a game, for it.

The element that seperates the two skillsets is the ability to additionally make plays, as opposed to contesting a reception.

Deep_Freeze

01-13-2012, 11:44 AM

We may already have 3 such guys on the roster: Lissemore, Geathers and Hatcher. None of them is individually great but I could easily see Lissemore getting 5 next year, Hatcher could chip in 4 and Geathers could chip in 3. Add in 5 more for Ratliff who picks it up a bit now that he gets some more rest. We may not be quite as bad off on the DL as is conventional wisdom but we have to get rid of Coleman. Spears is still a useful part as he is a good rotational guy and can be an absolute load at times for any OL to handle.

What we are missing is a truly dynamic DE like a Richard Seymour or Calais Campbell but those guys are hard to find. We should continue to look for such a player. Last year's draft had two major candidates in Cameron Jordan and JJ Watt. I know the team has been looking for such a player for awhile as there was some buzz in the past about Cam Jordan and Tyson Alualu. If Watt hadn't raced up draft boards after the combine he may have been a candidate with our 2nd round pick. Unfortunately, there is no good candidate this year at pick #14. The best picks for pressure may be one of the OLBs who drops into the top of the 2nd: Bruce Irvin, Curry, Whitney, Hightower or alternatively Ingram in the 1st. One wildcard would be if a guy like Coples drops to us and we decide to play him at DE in our 3-4.

Some of our 4-3 hypers probably need to read this article, as we play a hybrid D anyway.

I believe you are overrating some of those guys a bit. What if Ware went out for us like Mario did in Houston?? Would we still have had that type of season they did this year??

The answer would have to be a huge no, from what is laid out in this article and we all already know, Ware has no help. We need pass rushers, and we need them quickly. As for there not being any worth the pick, it has been said that this isn't a great year for pass rushers, but that is only cause there is no definite top 5 pick pass rusher. That doesn't mean all of the pass rushers are bad.

I will wait til they workout, before I conclude that their are no rushers this year. In all likelyhood, one will perform well and shoot up the boards as CBs and pass rushers are usually most affected by how they workout. We just don't know at this point, all we can do is wait and see.

CCBoy

01-13-2012, 11:50 AM

Some of our 4-3 hypers probably need to read this article, as we play a hybrid D anyway.

I believe you are overrating some of those guys a bit. What if Ware went out for us like Mario did in Houston?? Would we still have had that type of season they did this year??

The answer would have to be a huge no, from what is laid out in this article and we all already know, Ware has no help. We need pass rushers, and we need them quickly. As for there not being any worth the pick, it has been said that this isn't a great year for pass rushers, but that is only cause there is no definite top 5 pick pass rusher. That doesn't mean all of the pass rushers are bad.

I will wait til they workout, before I conclude that their are no rushers this year. In all likelyhood, one will perform well and shoot up the boards as CBs and pass rushers are usually most affected by how they workout. We just don't know at this point, all we can do is wait and see.

Hooah, and if memory serves me, just such a player arrived and climbed to the Dallas pick in another draft. And the Cowboys drafted DeMarcus Ware instad of pulling the trigger first on Marcus Spears.

Deep_Freeze

01-13-2012, 11:57 AM

Hooah, and if memory serves me, just such a player arrived and climbed to the Dallas pick in another draft. And the Cowboys drafted DeMarcus Ware instad of pulling the trigger first on Marcus Spears.

Yes he was on my mind as a posted that, heck Tyron greatly improved his stock after workouts. There have been alot of pass rushers that seem to climb after workouts and perform well in the NFL. We will have to wait and see if anyone can do it this year.

InmanRoshi

01-13-2012, 12:34 PM

Two excuses I continually see for Spencer..

a) The "scheme" doesn't allow him to rush the passer. I heard this excuse last year as to why Spencer wasn't getting more than 4-6 sacks a year under Wade, despite the fact that Greg Ellis got double digit sacks from that same position before Spencer. I would also add that Connor Barwin has 11.5 sacks playing under the same exact position under Wade this year. The excuse is flimsy at best. If part of our current "scheme" is to have big stiffs like Coleman and Spears, and evidently it is since it was priority to sign those two in free agency and not Cullen Jenkins who signed a deal similar to Spears, AND on top of that continually drop one of the OLBs into coverage all the time ... then this "scheme" is incredibly dumb and will not win a Championship in a league of Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning. It's every bit as archaic and conservative as anything Parcells put on the field.

b) "Well, because of the secondary issues Ryan wasn't allowed to use all the blitz schemes he wanted that would have helped Spencer out". This is a polite way of saying "Anthony Spencer can't ever be depended on to win a one on one matchup". If the only way 3-4 OLB can be expected to get to the QB is by the scheme giving them an open, uncontested path, then they're simply not very good and that spot could be filled by just about anyone. It doesn't take a great deal of talent to get to a QB uncontested.

That said ... I fully expect the Cowboys to lock up Spencer longterm to rather . They fully showed by resigning Marcus Spears that they'll make a commitment to mediocrity as long as it's familiar mediocrity.

InmanRoshi

01-13-2012, 12:36 PM

We need pass rushers, and we need them quickly. As for there not being any worth the pick, it has been said that this isn't a great year for pass rushers, but that is only cause there is no definite top 5 pick pass rusher. That doesn't mean all of the pass rushers are bad.

I'll also add that most didn't think JJ Watt was worth a Top 15 pick last year, particularly at this time. "Nice solid player, not a difference maker" I think was the consensus.

CCBoy

01-13-2012, 12:52 PM

This affects some of the view given towards a pass rush:

'With Ryan's scheme, you need good DBs. Over the last two years, the Cowboys have been the worst team in the NFL when blitzing when other teams pass. That has to improve or the combination of that and Ryan's scheme is a disaster.'

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20120113-george-offensive-line-third-on-list-of-priorities-for-cowboys-to-address.ece

Eskimo

01-14-2012, 12:08 AM

Disagree completely. No one is saying shutdown, just able to stick like glue and even make short passes contested on a regular basis. There are those in the NFL. A scheme such as Rob Ryans, needs consistency of good play by it's corners...when left alone. That part can't be compromised in the Ryan scheme. Or you pay consistently in a game, for it.

The element that seperates the two skillsets is the ability to additionally make plays, as opposed to contesting a reception.

I don't know what you're disagreeing with.

Are you saying Jenkins isn't good enough?

If so you will always be disappointed because they are only 5 CBs better than 2011 Mike Jenkins and it is tough to get two on one squad.

I would very much like to take another CB in the first two rounds. There is only one CB who projects to be as good as Jenkins this year and he looks like he could be a top 5-10 pick which is out of our range, unfortunately.

I do hope we can grab a guy in the 2nd (? Minnifield) and get him to play close to Jenkins level. The only other way is to take a risk on a guy like Janoris Jenkins who has the ability but is a major knucklehead who got tossed off of the Florida squad and his issues with MJ. The FO will really have to do their homework if they want to take such a risk. He might be available in a trade down to the bottom of the first or early 2nd as it is hard to say where some team will value him.

CCBoy

01-14-2012, 06:02 AM

I don't know what you're disagreeing with.

Are you saying Jenkins isn't good enough?

If so you will always be disappointed because they are only 5 CBs better than 2011 Mike Jenkins and it is tough to get two on one squad.

I would very much like to take another CB in the first two rounds. There is only one CB who projects to be as good as Jenkins this year and he looks like he could be a top 5-10 pick which is out of our range, unfortunately.

I do hope we can grab a guy in the 2nd (? Minnifield) and get him to play close to Jenkins level. The only other way is to take a risk on a guy like Janoris Jenkins who has the ability but is a major knucklehead who got tossed off of the Florida squad and his issues with MJ. The FO will really have to do their homework if they want to take such a risk. He might be available in a trade down to the bottom of the first or early 2nd as it is hard to say where some team will value him.

A shutdown corner discourages passing in his side of the field, because not only does he have good coverage, but he makes plays and forces teams to pay with a turnover.

A defender in the secondary, who is able to stay on an island, only has to have good coverage on a consistant basis. This doesn't mean that he additionally has to make a play beyond defensing on the pass. There is a talent difference in the two.

Revis today is an example of more of a shutdown defender. Deion was one a while back for Dallas. For a shutdown defender, threat of turn over is as great as close coverage defending the receiver.

The point was the high completion by opponents because Dallas defenders had problems staying on islands at the very end of the season. And the need for corners who can actually stay on the island in Rob's defense.

Not just any type of good corner, is the point. One on one is the litmus test of need in the Dallas defense.

Free agency is where a cornerback that can live in single coverage will come from, unless Dallas is willing to move up and pay the price. Otherwise, Mikes Jenkins is the new lead dog, and a strong talent that can help out reasonably his first year, has to be added to the section. Jenkins did well last season, but teams had Newman to pick on at the end.