4.67 slow?????? [Archive] - Dallas Cowboys Forum

silverbear

04-01-2005, 02:53 AM

Its not like Clarett robbed a store...

Yeah, he just tried to rip off an insurance company of a few thousand dollars by filing a false police report... wound up paying a fine for filing that false report...

he just had problems with the ncaa...

You obviously don't have the first clue what you're talking about, so how 'bout I fill you (and the other Clarett apologists) in on the timeline of his troubles to date?? Perhaps it might change your opinion of the guy... this first bit is from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, and can be found at the following link:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/collegeother/20030924timeline0924p9.asp

Dec. 30 (2002): Denounces Ohio State officials for not allowing him to fly to Youngstown for the funeral of a friend.

Dec. 31: When Ohio State athletic director Andy Geiger says Clarett didn't file the necessary paperwork for emergency financial aid for the flight, Clarett accuses administrators of lying.

Of course, Maurice never produced any copy of the paperwork proving he DID file for emergency financial aid... I guess we're supposed to take the word of an admitted liar over that of the school...

July 12 (2003): The New York Times quotes a teaching assistant at Ohio State who says Clarett received "preferential treatment."

The full story on that will follow in a little bit...

July 29: NCAA investigating Clarett's claim that more than $10,000 in clothing, CDs, cash and stereo equipment was stolen in April from a 2001 Chevrolet Monte Carlo he had borrowed from a local dealership. Clarett's attorney, Scott Schiff, later acknowledges many of the items belonged to the dealer, not Clarett, and that Clarett exaggerated the value of some items.

Sept. 9 (2003): Clarett charged with misdemeanor falsification for his claim to police in April that thousands of dollars in goods were stolen from the borrowed car.

So, he lied to police AND to NCAA investigators... doesn't sound like "he just had problems with the NCAA", does it??

Next, we move on to his suspension from Ohio State, to be found by following this link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1612990

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Maurice Clarett was suspended for the season Wednesday for violating NCAA rules, tarnishing Ohio State's national title and clouding the future of one of the nation's most talented running backs.

Clarett was punished because the school determined he accepted thousands of dollars in improper benefits and then lied to NCAA and school investigators...

Geiger said Clarett was guilty of 14 violations of the ethical-conduct bylaw and two violations of receiving preferential treatment or benefits because he is an athlete.

14 violations of the ethical-conduct code, and 2 instances of receiving improper benefits... FOURTEEN violations... clearly, this guy had his hand out to virtually every booster the Buckeyes had...

Now, here's more documentation on the special benefits given to him when he took those oral exams, again from the folks at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2003/0712/1580027.html

Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett received assistance to pass a class before the Fiesta Bowl, a university professor told The New York Times for a story published Sunday.

Clarett passed African-American and African Studies 101 by taking two oral exams, Paulette Pierce, an associate professor, told The Times. She said she worked directly with Clarett and administered the exams after he walked out of the course's midterm exam during the fall semester.

Again, what bothers me most about this is the way he walked out on that exam... seems like whenever he's not sufficiently prepared for a task, he just quits...

The New York Daily News offers us more on this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/story/161788p-141838c.html

But last year Clarett was suspended from the team for accepting improper benefits and lying to NCAA investigators. He was fined $100 for filing a false police report and inflating the value of items stolen from his car. Then, just this week, it was reported that Bobby Dellimuti, a central figure in Clarett's NCAA scandal, was gambling on college football while having daily contact with Clarett during his freshman season.

So, Clarett was hangin' with known gamblers...

Well, I think you're getting the general idea... and remember, all of these incidents fall within a short, 2 year period...

What emerges is a picture of a competitor who routinely quits when the going gets tough, who is willing to lie on official reports in order to defraud an insurance company, who seems to have had his hand out ever since he arrived on campus...

And that's not even considering the lack of discipline and/or work ethic he showed when he showed up at the combines in less than peak physical condition this year... for God's sake, he had a YEAR to get ready for the biggest job interview in his life, and he shows up unprepared??

What makes you think a guy like that will EVER show the discipline and determination to succeed in the NFL?? From what I can see, this is a guy who takes the easy way out every single time...

Basically, Maurice Clarett is a punk...

phildominator

04-01-2005, 05:51 AM

Basically, Maurice Clarett is a punk...

Could be, but if he can gain 1,700 yards a season, he'll make more money than all of us combined.

Dontcha just lub amerikka?

Hostile

04-01-2005, 06:26 AM

Yeah, he just tried to rip off an insurance company of a few thousand dollars by filing a false police report... wound up paying a fine for filing that false report...

You obviously don't have the first clue what you're talking about, so how 'bout I fill you (and the other Clarett apologists) in on the timeline of his troubles to date?? Perhaps it might change your opinion of the guy... this first bit is from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, and can be found at the following link:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/collegeother/20030924timeline0924p9.asp

Of course, Maurice never produced any copy of the paperwork proving he DID file for emergency financial aid... I guess we're supposed to take the word of an admitted liar over that of the school...

The full story on that will follow in a little bit...

So, he lied to police AND to NCAA investigators... doesn't sound like "he just had problems with the NCAA", does it??

Next, we move on to his suspension from Ohio State, to be found by following this link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1612990

14 violations of the ethical-conduct code, and 2 instances of receiving improper benefits... FOURTEEN violations... clearly, this guy had his hand out to virtually every booster the Buckeyes had...

Now, here's more documentation on the special benefits given to him when he took those oral exams, again from the folks at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2003/0712/1580027.html

Again, what bothers me most about this is the way he walked out on that exam... seems like whenever he's not sufficiently prepared for a task, he just quits...

The New York Daily News offers us more on this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/story/161788p-141838c.html

So, Clarett was hangin' with known gamblers...

Well, I think you're getting the general idea... and remember, all of these incidents fall within a short, 2 year period...

What emerges is a picture of a competitor who routinely quits when the going gets tough, who is willing to lie on official reports in order to defraud an insurance company, who seems to have had his hand out ever since he arrived on campus...

And that's not even considering the lack of discipline and/or work ethic he showed when he showed up at the combines in less than peak physical condition this year... for God's sake, he had a YEAR to get ready for the biggest job interview in his life, and he shows up unprepared??

What makes you think a guy like that will EVER show the discipline and determination to succeed in the NFL?? From what I can see, this is a guy who takes the easy way out every single time...

Basically, Maurice Clarett is a punk...:hammer:

Game, set, match, Mr. Silver Bear.

Dayton Cowboy

04-01-2005, 06:42 AM

I have no issues with Mo on the field itself.. Mo gets himself into trouble on the sidelines and outside of the football arena.. If someone is ever able to bridle is off the field stuff and keep him focused on the game.. Oh.. and he can prove he is able to stay healthy.. Then some team will get an above average back.. That said.. too many IFs for me..

Gibby!

04-01-2005, 07:24 AM

What the hell does that prove????

That he was giving a valid reason for his user name? Did you read the post????

silverbear

04-01-2005, 08:18 AM

Could be, but if he can gain 1,700 yards a season, he'll make more money than all of us combined.

Dontcha just lub amerikka?

Clarett will gain 1700 yards in the NFL about the same time donkeys fly... LOL...

And I have no problem with him making a living in the NFL, if his skills will allow it... I just don't want to see him in a Cowboys uniform...

silverbear

04-01-2005, 08:20 AM

:hammer:

Game, set, match, Mr. Silver Bear.

Hos, I just believe that most of the posters who are so vigorously defending Maurice these days don't know the full extent of his sociopathic behavior, so I figured I'd do a little research and lay it out there for anybody who cares to know the story...

Maybe I'll change a few minds... naw, probably not...

LA=Pancakemaker

04-01-2005, 08:24 AM

QC did lead us to the playoffs, was better than VT

That year our D WAS RANKED #1 Last year ,,, what are d was ranked ...31st?
Defense wins championships!!!

Charles

04-01-2005, 10:57 AM

Yeah, he just tried to rip off an insurance company of a few thousand dollars by filing a false police report... wound up paying a fine for filing that false report...
The guy made a stupid mistake. It was so bad the judicial system only made him pay a fine. :confused: . If he's such a punk ( by the way are you aware that Clarett has never had any prior run in with the law ) why didn't he get probation or jail time or community service. He lied to the CAMPUS police and tried to perpertuate a fraud worth thousands of dollars.

Why wasn't he punishment more severe?

Why did the judicial system let Maurice Clarett plead down to a lesser crime and pay a fine?

Is that a common practice for the judicial system to let punks off the hook? Did Clarett get special treatment?

I doubt it. The DA was smart enough to know that Clarett made a dumb mistake and let him walk. What is $100 to Clarett. He's got more from booster and got paid for working on a job that he didn't even have to show up.

You obviously don't have the first clue what you're talking about, so how 'bout I fill you (and the other Clarett apologists) in on the timeline of his troubles to date?? Perhaps it might change your opinion of the guy... this first bit is from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, and can be found at the following link:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/collegeother/20030924timeline0924p9.asp

In your haste you didn't even realize that article justifies the opinion that Clarett is worth taking a look. The only mistake made was lying to CAMPUS police, but the article is actually a GREAT resume for Clarett the football player.

January: Begins classes at Ohio State after graduating early from Warren Harding. (oops what is this. This punk began classes before even taking to the field for the Buckeyes. This punk gets no credit for graduating early from High School)

April: Wearing a plastic cast on a broken thumb, Clarett battles three other backs for carries in spring ball. Coach Jim Tressel says, "He's physical and he's having fun. He's going to be a good one." Perfect example of a punk showing NO heart

Aug. 20: Is listed as the starter at running back, the first time a freshman has opened as the starter at the position since 1943.......... Wow in almost 70 years the Buckeyes have never started a freshman RB. Clarett is a natural, a stud. It was proven at the end of the season when the Buckeyes won the National title.

Of course, Maurice never produced any copy of the paperwork proving he DID file for emergency financial aid... I guess we're supposed to take the word of an admitted liar over that of the school...

So we are supposed to believe the school. Is this the same school under investigation by the same NCAA investigators.

http://www.channel3000.com/cfoot572/4257656/detail.html

The move was necessary after Geiger resigned earlier this year due to a series of high-profile scandals at the university, most notably the NCAA investigation into Maurice Clarett's alleged acceptance of improper benefits while leading the football team to the national championship as a freshman two years ago.

Head football coach Jim Tressel, university professors and boosters alike were all caught up in the scandal, accused by Clarett of providing the star running back with cars, no-show jobs and preferential treatment in the classroom.

The Buckeyes men's basketball team also saw trouble under Geiger's helm amid former coach Jim O'Brien's admission that he paid a recruit $6,000.

O'Brien, who led the team to a share of the Big 10 regular season title in 1999-2000 and 2001-02, was fired in June 2004. He later sued the university in November, saying it owed him more than $3 million on his contract.

The school imposed a one-year postseason ban on the basketball team in December and will not take part in the upcoming Big Ten Conference Tournament.

The entire program is under investigation for lying and cheating, but you went out of your way to single out Clarett as being a punk. Where is the same judgemental attitude towards average players on the Cowboys roster like Leonardo Carson who is on probation for beating his girlfriend.

Why hasn't Ohio imposed any punishment on the Football team? Because they don't suck like the basketball team and if they did it would taint the validity of the National Championship.

You act like Maurice Clarett is the only person with an axe to grind. Andy Geiger resign admist investigation. The tried to hang Maurice out to dry. Maurice could have gone to the CFL or any other minor football league, but his decision to buck the status quo in the NFL is the reason he's being black balled, not because he lied to the CAMPUS police and NCAA investigators. Atleast we know Ohio State also lied if they didn't Andy Geiger (former president of the Ohio State Athletic department) wouldn't have resigned, they wouldn't be under investigation and they wouldn't have self imposed sanctions.

So, he lied to police AND to NCAA investigators... doesn't sound like "he just had problems with the NCAA", does it??
So he only paid a $100 fine after the DA let him plead down. A very common practice when the defendants a punk.........sarcasm/off.

I think we've also established that Ohio State Athletic department is/was also under investigation. They have also lied, but they get to keep the National Championship and black ball Clarett.

Next, we move on to his suspension from Ohio State, to be found by following this link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1612990

14 violations of the ethical-conduct code, and 2 instances of receiving improper benefits... FOURTEEN violations... clearly, this guy had his hand out to virtually every booster the Buckeyes had...

Now, here's more documentation on the special benefits given to him when he took those oral exams, again from the folks at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/2003/0712/1580027.html

Again, what bothers me most about this is the way he walked out on that exam... seems like whenever he's not sufficiently prepared for a task, he just quits...

The New York Daily News offers us more on this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/story/161788p-141838c.html

But last year Clarett was suspended from the team for accepting improper benefits and lying to NCAA investigators. He was fined $100 for filing a false police report and inflating the value of items stolen from his car. Then, just this week, it was reported that Bobby Dellimuti, a central figure in Clarett's NCAA scandal, was gambling on college football while having daily contact with Clarett during his freshman season.

$100 fine and getting hung out to dry is the only repercusion for 14 violations and hanging out with known Gamblers. :o

So, Clarett was hangin' with known gamblers...

Well, I think you're getting the general idea... and remember, all of these incidents fall within a short, 2 year period...

What emerges is a picture of a competitor who routinely quits when the going gets tough, who is willing to lie on official reports in order to defraud an insurance company, who seems to have had his hand out ever since he arrived on campus...

And that's not even considering the lack of discipline and/or work ethic he showed when he showed up at the combines in less than peak physical condition this year... for God's sake, he had a YEAR to get ready for the biggest job interview in his life, and he shows up unprepared??

That is the picture you paint, but reality is very different.

Nothing was ever proven that Clarett gambled or assisted in any Gambling, but of course the media rarely do a follow-up. They just throw it out there to sell the rag.

He only got a $100 fine and the Ohio State Buckeyes athletic department is under investigation too. Andy Geiger a well respected Collegiate person was forced to resign after years of great service.

You question his discipline and work ethic. Some could argue that he showed a lot of discipline and work ethic to stay in shape leading up to the combine. The only task he struggled (did not fail) was in the 40s times. But he was ripped, scupltured and in better shape than he was a year ago. Isn't that a sign of discipline.

He made a dumb mistake in leaving the combine, but he came back and performed better yesterday. Isn't that another sign of discipline and work ethic. Improving oneself to achieve a goal????? The goal was to run better.

He was disciplined enough to graduate from High School early and started attending classes before spring practice. Isn't that a sign of discipline???

Didn't he show heart by beating out other RB as a freshman when he had a broken finger. Didn't he show heart and discipline when he injured his shoulder in a victory, he still played the next week before re-injuring his shoulder early in the game. Dedication to the team, discipline and commitment all in one nut shell.

What makes you think a guy like that will EVER show the discipline and determination to succeed in the NFL?? From what I can see, this is a guy who takes the easy way out every single time...

Basically, Maurice Clarett is a punk...
Maybe the fact that after he showed up out shape in 2003, he got with the right people who got him in shape, even though he/they did a poor job on his speed training.

Maybe the fact that he again humbled himself after running poorly, ran again and showed improvement.

maybe the fact that Clarett has improved his interviews and know understands why NFL teams want to knowledge about his bacjground, when he initially thought it wasn't necessary. He's growing up and showing maturity.

I am not suprised that you'd think Clarett a punk. History always repeats itself. All the other athletes that bucked the trend or staus quo were, black balled by the media and of course the NFL and scouts aren't going to help out a person who tried to destroy their gravy train/ minor league system.

Trust me there are always two sides to the story. One thing is a FACT.

Claretts undeniable talent to play the RB position. Your article does a great job of proving the point that Clarett is worth a chance.

Wraith584

04-01-2005, 12:33 PM

the new, heavyweight champion of the board, CHARLES

silverbear

04-01-2005, 01:23 PM

The guy made a stupid mistake.

The guy's made a BUNCH of stupid mistakes... just because all of them didn't involve the law doesn't mean he didn't screw up repeatedly...

For 's sake, Ohio State threw him off the team, a year after he led them to a national championship...

It was so bad the judicial system only made him pay a fine. :confused:

And if he hadn't gotten caught early, he would most assuredly have filed a fraudulent claim with that insurance company, in the process committing a very serious FELONY...

If he's such a punk ( by the way are you aware that Clarett has never had any prior run in with the law )

I see- since he's only had one run-in with the law, he's not a punk... never mind that Ohio State got so fed up with him that they sent him packing...

And of course, there's nothing questionable at all about his supposedly poor mother suddenly coming up with 15 grand to buy an SUV from the same dealer who "loaned" him the car that got broken into...

Have you had many car dealers willing to loan you a car, hoss?? Or did Clarett take advantage of his celebrity status...

why didn't he get probation or jail time or community service. He lied to the CAMPUS police and tried to perpertuate a fraud worth thousands of dollars.

Why wasn't he punishment more severe?

Most likely because he's a celebrity in the Columbus area...

Using your logic, Leonard Little isn't a murderer, even though he killed a woman while driving drunk... I mean, he's still playing NFL football, so what he did can't be all that serious, right??

In your haste you didn't even realize that article justifies the opinion that Clarett is worth taking a look. The only mistake made was lying to CAMPUS police,

Oh, so there's nothing wrong with lying to CAMPUS police?? Even if he tells that lie so that he can defraud an insurance company out of thousands of dollars??

Your moral compass is pretty screwed up, pal...

So we are supposed to believe the school. Is this the same school under investigation by the same NCAA investigators.

ROTFLMAO... your link clearly states that the focus of that investigation was CLARETT... and they ultimately took independent action, kicking him off the team...

How disingenuous of you, to try to defend Clarett by ragging on the Ohio State's problems with the NCAA, when most of the problems were created by Clarett himself...

Head football coach Jim Tressel, university professors and boosters alike were all caught up in the scandal, accused by Clarett of providing the star running back with cars, no-show jobs and preferential treatment in the classroom.

And Clarett TOOK all of those improper benefits, even knowing they were violations of NCAA rules... BTW, if there is evidence that Tressel provided any of those benefits, it's news to me... looks like you're just so desperate to justify what the punk did that you'll cast aspersions on everybody else...

That's right, it's not Clarett's fault at all, it's the school, the coach and boosters alike who MADE him go bad...

The entire program is under investigation for lying and cheating, but you went out of your way to single out Clarett as being a punk.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em... and what I see when I look at Maurice Clarett is a guy who has ALWAYS been willing to take the dirty money, who has ALWAYS been quite willing to take shortcuts rather than doing things the right way...

You act like Maurice Clarett is the only person with an axe to grind.

Perhaps that's because Maurice Clarett is the only person in this story who could conceivably wind up playing for my favorite football team... I don't give a rat's behind about Ohio State or any of the other participants, they mean less than nothing to me...

Clarett wouldn't mean a thing to me either, if he wasn't draft-eligible this year...

Andy Geiger resign admist investigation. The tried to hang Maurice out to dry.

That's right, the punk is just an innocent VICTIM... and of course, he's done NOTHING to try to hang Ohio State out to dry... like when he claimed the the university wouldn't give him the air fare to attend the funeral of a friend (which they're apparently allowed to do)... turns out he didn't bother to file the necessary paperwork to get those funds, so there was no way the school COULD legally pay for that flight... of course, he claims he filed the paperwork, but he couldn't show us a copy of that paperwork... absent that, we really need to remember that he's already been convicted of LYING to the police...

Maurice could have gone to the CFL or any other minor football league, but his decision to buck the status quo in the NFL is the reason he's being black balled,

Chortle... I find myself wondering if Clarett is as paranoid as you are... there is no "black balling" going on, Clarett will be in this draft, and will undoubtedly wind up being selected by some team... and if he winds up being drafted somewhat lower than his skills suggest he should, that won't be because of the NFL "conspiring" to get back at him, it will be because of his lengthy string of antisocial incidents...

So he only paid a $100 fine after the DA let him plead down. A very common practice when the defendants a punk.........sarcasm/off.

Are you suggesting that's the ONLY problem he's had in college?? Further, are you suggesting that attempts to defraud insurance companies are no big deal??

$100 fine and getting hung out to dry is the only repercusion for 14 violations and hanging out with known Gamblers. :o

Well, that's a pretty STOOPID thing to say... seems to me that getting kicked off the team and thrown off campus is another pretty big repercussion for those 14 violations...

Nothing was ever proven that Clarett gambled or assisted in any Gambling, but of course the media rarely do a follow-up. They just throw it out there to sell the rag.

I never suggested he did... really, are you obtuse??

The NFL and the NCAA both have rules against players hanging out with known gamblers... Clarett knew that, but he still hung out with one...

He only got a $100 fine and the Ohio State Buckeyes athletic department is under investigation too.

That argument is entirely irrelevant here... yes, the school is under investigation, and yes, it was folks connected with the school who "tempted" that poor, INNOCENT young man... they have culpability in this...

But Clarett could have CHOSEN to do the right thing, he could have CHOSEN to not take those improper benefits... Ohio State's culpability in now way mitigates Clarett's...

You question his discipline and work ethic. Some could argue that he showed a lot of discipline and work ethic to stay in shape leading up to the combine.

He WASN'T in shape at the combine... in fact, there were quotes about his private workout talking about how he looked more chiseled than he did at the combines...

Looks like you're engaging in a little revisionist history here...

The only task he struggled (did not fail) was in the 40s times.

ROTFLMAO... perhaps that's because he QUIT after running his 40s... didn't do another drill... it's kinda hard to struggle in drills you don't participate in, wouldn't you say??

And I'd say that a running back who runs in the 4.7 to 4.8 range has "failed"...

He made a dumb mistake in leaving the combine, but he came back and performed better yesterday.

Actually, his 40 times at his private workout were no better than his times at the combine... at the combine, he was electronically timed, at his workout he was hand timed... scouts say that can make as much as a full tenth of a difference in the results, and he ran a little less than a tenth of a second faster at his private workout...

And even if you accept your suggestion that he performed "better", he didn't perform WELL... he couldn't even crack 4.65 seconds in the 40, and that's not even good speed for a freaking linebacker... times in the 4.65-4.7 second range are actually quite SLOW for an NFL running back...

Isn't that another sign of discipline and work ethic.

Yeah, it's real impressive-- he runs a disappointing 40 time at the combine, then decides that he'll take another shot at it a few weeks later... you would expect that part of his effort to improve his time would be to shed a few pounds, but he shows up at his workout two pounds HEAVIER...

If he was working in those intervening weeks, he was working stupid...

Improving oneself to achieve a goal????? The goal was to run better.

No, the goal was to run fast enough to convince scouts that he's fast enough to play in the NFL...

If you like the punk, you're welcome to him... I'll bet you're a big fan or Randy Moss and Plaxico Burress, too...

chargrove

04-01-2005, 01:45 PM

He was a bit of a fumbler, too.

silverbear

04-01-2005, 01:49 PM

chargrove stated:

He was a bit of a fumbler, too.

A FUMBLER??!?

That may be the worst indictment of all, LOL...

I guess I just didn't pay real close attention to his freshman year...

Q_the_man

04-01-2005, 01:53 PM

Clarett was 18 years old, he made mistakes, oh well everybody does...... But tell me who gave Clarett a job that he got paid at but did not show up to work? Who gave Clarett money in high school, who gave money to Clarett in College, Boosters from Ohio State who knows that is wrong....

I can see if Clarett was 25 and making mistakes but he was 18, still learning the game and not the game of Football but the game of life.....

Would the Cowboys kept Micheal Irvin if he was catching 6 passes a year when he was using dope, probably not, but Irvin was catching 80 balls for 1200 yards so they turn the other cheek.....Is that right?

he lied, period and like I said, I'll say it once and I'll say it again everybody lies or have told a lie....

BARRYRAY

04-01-2005, 02:35 PM

Well Emmitt has at least one or two love children running around in addition to the ones by his wife so its not like he's saintly or anything either...

Derinyar

04-01-2005, 02:39 PM

Clarett is almost a total unknown. He played around half a season of football closing on 2 full years ago now. Wasn't able to stay healthy for a 12 game season, and then proceeded to basically get himself busted out of OSU.

What we know about him basically amounts to a few good games that happened later in a season, and that he had a very middling speed for a RB without a track record to back it up anywhere.

Benson vs Clarett isn't a viable argument at this point because Benson has been a success at the IA level.

ravidubey

04-01-2005, 03:13 PM

Hos, I just believe that most of the posters who are so vigorously defending Maurice these days don't know the full extent of his sociopathic behavior, so I figured I'd do a little research and lay it out there for anybody who cares to know the story...

Maybe I'll change a few minds... naw, probably not...

I also can not stand the holier than thou attitude of many regarding the behavior of athletes in general. As if you've never done anything wrong, and presented with the same opportunities wouldn't do the EXACT SAME THING! Give me a break!

The final straw is use of the term "sociopathic"! There many, many people who commit insurance fraud and worse crimes; it doesn't make them sociopathic. Clarett main and probably only problem was he didn't didn't "play ball" off the field, too.

It stuns me how much people are willing to forgive OSU for allowing its boosters to give Clarett money and its teachers to give him preferential treatment on exams!! I mean, did you expect Clarett to stand up and scream "This is wrong!" and leave the University? The question you should be asking is "Who", as in who told the teacher grant preferential treatment!!

As for boosters paying him-- to me it would be stange (almost sociopathic) behavior if an ahtlete refused all money and gifts. We laughed when Eric Dickerson joked with Rams management during a contract negotiation that he was paid more by SMU, but it's acceptable to hammer Clarett and so some do.

And academically what incentive is there to care about a class if the entire University is structured on winking and nodding you through it to get the National Championship and the ensuing big bucks? Why shouldn't you stand up for yourself when that same University, having ridden you to the top, decides to systematically leak all this stuff about you-- knowing you're the perfect magnet for the negative attention?

Man does society love its scapegoats. OSU did.

jobberone

04-01-2005, 03:28 PM

He'll get his chance to prove himself and if he can run the ball everyone will start in on someone else. Right now he's holding the hot potato. It'll be someone else's turn shortly.

DLCassidy

04-01-2005, 03:43 PM

Here's my take:

If Clarett had simply owned up to the "mistake" with the false insurance claim, apologized to the team and his coaches, he would have been allowed back to play last year after a suspension of a few games. But he didn't. Instead he complains over and over in the press about how he's been mistreated by OSU and they end up booting his punk @ss out of school. But he still won't make nice. If he got down on his knees maybe the NCAA would have allowed him to transfer to another school and be eligible right away. But no, Mo's going to buck the system and challenge the NFL draft rules. In the meantime guys like Marcus Allen are trying to help him and blows them all off, even no-showing a meeting with Allen he agreed to.
Then the guy loses in court and spends the next 12 months watching Oprah and snacking on chocolate bon bons (if he didn't I'd like to see the workout routine he had that had him looking more like a FB than a HB). After he barely beats Alex Barron's time in the 40 at the combine he does what he does best- he quits the rest of the combine. And we're supposed to be impressed that a few weeks later he shows he can keep up with most of the DE's in the league? Sorry, not buying, go sell crazy elsewhere. He's a supplemental 6th at best.

Charles

04-01-2005, 04:05 PM

The guy's made a BUNCH of stupid mistakes... just because all of them didn't involve the law doesn't mean he didn't screw up repeatedly...

For 's sake, Ohio State threw him off the team, a year after he led them to a national championship...

So what? He paid his $100 fine :D for trying to defraud an insurance company and was kicked off the team.

Only throwing Clarett off the team further showed the Buckeye's hypocrisy. They didn't throw Clarett off the team until he started revealing the ongoing cheating and lying at Ohio State....... look at the quote again.....

[b]The move was necessary after Geiger resigned earlier this year due to a series of high-profile scandals at the university, most notably the NCAA investigation into Maurice Clarett's alleged acceptance of improper benefits while leading the football team to the national championship as a freshman two years ago.

Claretts mistake was the most notable, but if he hadn't snitched on the Buckeyes, he'd still be on the team. The Buckeyes didn't throw Clarett off the team until after his interview with the NCAA investigators, an interview that lead to the NCAA opening an investigation in the Ohio State Athletic dept. Get your facts straight.

The Ohio State Athletic department is also paying for allowing those other mistakes to happen. They were culpable. Clarett didn't go to Ohio and demand a car, unearned education credit, money from boosters etc. He didn't start the trend that is a common practice in major schools. He just joined the crew and went with the flow.

Maurice didn't start the culture at Ohio State

And if he hadn't gotten caught early, he would most assuredly have filed a fraudulent claim with that insurance company, in the process committing a very serious FELONY...

And you know this because.................

Clarett doesn't have any past run in with the law.

Assumptions........ NO FACTS to back it up.

But surprisingly the District Attorney allowed this FELON in the waiting to walk with a $100 fine. LMFAO :D

I see- since he's only had one run-in with the law, he's not a punk... never mind that Ohio State got so fed up with him that they sent him packing...

Yes, He's not a punk. ONE run in with the law at age 18 doesn't make a person a punk. Common sense bro

So why didn't they send him packing after he got a new vehicle which he couldn't afford??

It's laughable to see you try and justify Claretts dismissal from the team when these kind of things have been going on forever. Not to mention Ohio is under investigation by the NCAA and already have self imposed sanctions

And of course, there's nothing questionable at all about his supposedly poor mother suddenly coming up with 15 grand to buy an SUV from the same dealer who "loaned" him the car that got broken into...

Have you had many car dealers willing to loan you a car, hoss?? Or did Clarett take advantage of his celebrity status...

So he's a punk because he got his poor mother a car?????. I don't know where you're from, but if my poor mother needed a car and I am at an institution that has been giving hand-outs to students in my position for decades, I'd take the money and buy the car.

Hand-outs to collegiate athletes is standard operating procedure at schools like Ohio. If it wasn't then why is Ohio State in trouble.

Most likely because he's a celebrity in the Columbus area...

Using your logic, Leonard Little isn't a murderer, even though he killed a woman while driving drunk... I mean, he's still playing NFL football, so what he did can't be all that serious, right??

Using my logic ( which is the same as the LAW), Leonard little isn't a murder. It is called involuntary Man Slaughter. It's a serious offense, but the law recognize that it wasn't intentional. A jury of his peers made that decision. He got 3 months in jail.

Wouldn't Leonardo Little be considered a celebrity in St. Loius...... Why didn't he get off...

I think it's idiotic to try and draw a comparison to an 18 year old collegiate player that took some cash, got a car and cheated on his school work (standard operating procedure in big time college athletics). He got $100 fine

It's a free country. Why stop at Leonard Little? Why not draw an analogy to Jeffrey Dahmer.................

Oh, so there's nothing wrong with lying to CAMPUS police?? Even if he tells that lie so that he can defraud an insurance company out of thousands of dollars??

Of course theres something wrong, the DA and judge decided he should pay the price $100 fine....... LMFAO

Your moral compass is pretty screwed up, pal...
Atleast I am not drawing analogies to vehicular manslaughter in a case that involves practices that have been going on at Major colleges.

ROTFLMAO... your link clearly states that the focus of that investigation was CLARETT... and they ultimately took independent action, kicking him off the team...

You have comprehension problems. Claretts case was the most notable.

Please read the link again.

How disingenuous of you, to try to defend Clarett by ragging on the Ohio State's problems with the NCAA, when most of the problems were created by Clarett himself...

Well excuse me while I state the FACTS.

I am ragging on Ohio because they left Clarett out to dry and ripped him in the media, when they have been condoning the things Clarett did for decades.

You must be naive and seriously quite dumb to think it all start when Clarett go to campus. He didn't create a problem at Ohio. He became part of the problem and lashed out when they tried to black ball him to cover their a$$. It didn't work. The proof is in Geiger resigning and the program in under investigation after self imposed sanctions.

And Clarett TOOK all of those improper benefits, even knowing they were violations of NCAA rules... BTW, if there is evidence that Tressel provided any of those benefits, it's news to me... looks like you're just so desperate to justify what the punk did that you'll cast aspersions on everybody else...

That's right, it's not Clarett's fault at all, it's the school, the coach and boosters alike who MADE him go bad...

Actually I could careless about Ohio. I am not trying to justify what Clarett did. I am not naive, Tressel knew what was going on his football team. Chris Gamble, Troy Smith etc etc. The list is long.

I just think it's idiotic to black ball a player for doing things that have been common in all collegiate programs that have success, especially when Clarett has proven he's a stud on the field.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em... and what I see when I look at Maurice Clarett is a guy who has ALWAYS been willing to take the dirty money, who has ALWAYS been quite willing to take shortcuts rather than doing things the right way...

A notion that you can't prove.

There is no documentation or proof of Clarett taking short cuts in High School. Infact your article clearly stated he graduated early.

Clarett tried to buck the status quo in the NFL, he turned around and bettered himself to get into the draft the right way.

I call them like I see 'em too bro. You have taken a couple of mistakes made by a 18 year old player and stereotyped him. A very common practice in this great Nation.

Hollywood Henderson

04-01-2005, 04:39 PM

jobberone

04-01-2005, 04:47 PM

And in this corner wearing the silver trunks is....

:war: ...

You guys are intertaining.

ravidubey

04-01-2005, 05:55 PM

I don't think there is anyway Mo gets past the 4th round...

In fact, I would like to use our 4th on him...Great value there! (We need a real hungry back to back up JJ)

Anyone else remember him easily stiff arming the X-cane now media darling Safety of the Skins in that Bowl game?

Clarett will in my opinion be amongst the first few players chosen in the 4th round unless like Tennessee, KC, NE, Seattle, or Denver gets him in the 3rd round with their compensatory pick. Heck NE might trump everyone and use their standard 3rd round pick on him. It would be a solid, solid choice given Dillon's age.

wxcpo

04-01-2005, 06:35 PM

I see- since he's only had one run-in with the law, he's not a punk

Ever had a speeding ticket Silverbear? If so then you have had a run-in with the law so I guess that makes you or anyone else that has had a run-in with the law a punk....right?

And of course, there's nothing questionable at all about his supposedly poor mother suddenly coming up with 15 grand to buy an SUV from the same dealer who "loaned" him the car that got broken into...

Yeah lets act like Clarett is the only athlete in the history of college football who's family has come up with gifts.

Or did Clarett take advantage of his celebrity status...

Like most of us wouldn't have done the same thing if we were 18 and had the talent Clarett had and were just being given things. If someone came up to you tomorrow and offered you $10,000 because you were good at whatever you did would you turn it down?

Oh, so there's nothing wrong with lying to CAMPUS police?? Even if he tells that lie so that he can defraud an insurance company out of thousands of dollars??

I don't think anyone is saying he did absolutely nothing wrong, it's just that most of us are applying the common sense rules here. We aren't ready to throw the kid off the face of the earth because he made a mistake. You have made mistakes in life I'll bet. What if no one gave you a second chance because of those mistakes? Where would you be today?

ROTFLMAO... your link clearly states that the focus of that investigation was CLARETT... and they ultimately took independent action, kicking him off the team

Please, Ohio State got what they wanted, a national championship and then kicked him off the team. Do you not believe a single word that Clarett says about Ohio State? Do you not believe the other former OSU players that are singing the same tune? I for one believe Clarett when he says the coaches knew about things and they helped him get jobs where he got paid for doing nothing. I believe most big time colleges cheat in some form to get and keep their stars, it's just that most aren't caught.

And Clarett TOOK all of those improper benefits, even knowing they were violations of NCAA rules

Again act like Clarett is the first player to ever receive improper benefits. I am not saying that makes it right, but please some people on this board are saying we should take a chance on the Florida State QB who was kicked off his team for doing worse things than what Clarett is being labeled a punk for.

BTW, if there is evidence that Tressel provided any of those benefits, it's news to me... looks like you're just so desperate to justify what the punk did that you'll cast aspersions on everybody else...

Looks like in all your researching you didn't quite find both sides of the story did you? Of course you'll just come back and state that we should believe the coach over a punk and liar like Clarett. You'll just automatically discount whatever Clarett says. Like there is absolutely no way a coach would ever help his star player get improper benefits. Well if you decide to read it here ya go, here's your evidence.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1919246

He left behind the car dealerships, where he says the head coach got him SUVs.

That summer, Clarett says, the staff began finding him phantom jobs to put money in his pocket. He says it was the responsibility of running backs coach Dick Tressel, Jim's brother and then associate director of football operations, to find jobs for guys on the team.

You think for a second head coach Jim Tressel didn't know what his brother was doing?

Clarett lived 15 minutes from campus, so he also needed a car. He says he took that request right to the head coach. "My transmission blew in my car, a Cadillac. So I'm like, 'Coach Tressel, I can't get back and forth to campus.' This is probably after practice, 6 o'clock, 5 o'clock one night. He gets on the phone and says, this is where I get my car from. He called the man from McDaniel Automotive. He's like, 'I got a player here, Maurice Clarett. He needs a car. Do you have a car out there he can use?'

"So the man gets on the phone with me and says, 'What kind of cars do you like?' I say, 'Got any trucks?' He says, 'Yeah, I got two trucks. I got an Expedition and I got a Tahoe here right now.' He's like, 'I'll be there tomorrow morning.' They drove down to give me the car."

Clarett says he kept the Tahoe for 11 days, then switched to the Expedition. NCAA Rule 16.12.2.3 states that an institutional employee or representative of the institution's athletic interests is not allowed to provide a student athlete with the use of an automobile. According to Clarett, that is exactly what his head coach did. "This is what Jim Tressel arranged," Clarett says.

Plenty of this out there on the web, it's just that some people would rather ignore Clarett's side, automatically say it isn't true. No way would Ohio State coaches do any of the things Clarett or anyone else has accused them of.

That's right, it's not Clarett's fault at all, it's the school, the coach and boosters alike who MADE him go bad

Sure Clarett deserves his share of the blame, some of the problems he self created, but the University did hang him out to dry and tried to make him look bad in order to take the light off themselves.

According to one NFL GM, Ohio State athletic director Andy Geiger disparaged Clarett's character to league officials last spring, leading some teams to take Clarett off their draft board. "The AD just didn't like Clarett, for whatever reason," the GM says.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em... and what I see when I look at Maurice Clarett is a guy who has ALWAYS been willing to take the dirty money, who has ALWAYS been quite willing to take shortcuts rather than doing things the right way

Here's something for your reading pleasure.

Negatives: Not really a self-motivated player and does not take well to hard coaching … Is just a little too lazy digesting the playbook … Has adequate power, but not enough to take on defenders one-on-one … Not mentally tough, letting minor injuries linger … Just used on screens, as he is a marginal route runner who looks late for the ball … Needs to protect the ball better and show better anticipation for contact … Will sometimes run up the back of the offensive lineman, but has enough pick-and-slide agility to gain yards inside … Prone to go down from the initial tackle, especially when defenders attack his feet … Has good foot quickness and change-of-direction agility, but is not sudden off cuts, gathering himself before accelerating.

That was one scouting report on 2nd round pick Julius Jones prior to last year's draft. Doesn't sound very good now does it. Yet the Cowboys took a chance on the guy labeled as "too lazy" and "not mentally tough" and most on this board are saying we got a 2nd round steal.

That's right, the punk is just an innocent VICTIM... and of course, he's done NOTHING to try to hang Ohio State out to dry... like when he claimed the the university wouldn't give him the air fare to attend the funeral of a friend (which they're apparently allowed to do)... turns out he didn't bother to file the necessary paperwork to get those funds, so there was no way the school COULD legally pay for that flight... of course, he claims he filed the paperwork, but he couldn't show us a copy of that paperwork... absent that, we really need to remember that he's already been convicted of LYING to the police

Oh no he lied to the police. Why are we even allowing this guy to walk the streets or any other 18 or 19 year old kid who has done the same exact thing. We should round all those liars up and exile them to some island where we never have to see their lying faces ever again. Get off your high horse like you have never done anything wrong.

Chortle... I find myself wondering if Clarett is as paranoid as you are... there is no "black balling" going on

Oh really, in case you missed it

According to one NFL GM, Ohio State athletic director Andy Geiger disparaged Clarett's character to league officials last spring, leading some teams to take Clarett off their draft board. "The AD just didn't like Clarett, for whatever reason," the GM says.

Are you suggesting that's the ONLY problem he's had in college?? Further, are you suggesting that attempts to defraud insurance companies are no big deal??

He never signed the police report and never did file an insurance claim. Not saying insurance fraud is a frivilous crime, but he never filed a claim. To be attempted anything the person has to actually attempt it which Clarett did not do.

And I'd say that a running back who runs in the 4.7 to 4.8 range has "failed"...

So you probably wouldn't have liked to have had a RB by the name of Priest Holmes on our roster then huh? Seeing how he did run a 4.75 at the NFL combine, the guy is such a failure isn't he.

If you like the punk, you're welcome to him... I'll bet you're a big fan or Randy Moss and Plaxico Burress, too...

I also like Clarett, but hope he's not drafted by the Cowboys. I really want him to go somewhere he has a chance to start and hopefull yhe does well and capitalizes on his talents. I also want him to show all you guys who are so ready to hang him for being young and immature that people do change (even if your own lives aren't proof of that).

Common Sense

04-01-2005, 06:51 PM

Boo-frickity-hoo.. this is getting ridiculous.

Maurice, Maurice, wherefore art thou.. wait, what was his name again? He played for Ohio State for a season, didn't he?

silverbear

04-01-2005, 08:29 PM

So what? He paid his $100 fine :D for trying to defraud an insurance company and was kicked off the team.

So, this was an ATTEMPT to defraud an insurance company out of felony-type money... he actually got LUCKY that he got caught before he went ahead with his plans to defraud that company...

Clarett doesn't have any past run in with the law.

Wow, he's only 20 years old, and ONLY has one run-in with the law... you're right, we should nominate this punk for sainthood...

Of course, your focus on his problems with the LAW ignores all the other things he did that were WRONG, but perhaps not ILLEGAL... like accepting benefits under the table; these days, kids who are recruited to college athletic programs are all given orientation sessions that cover the things that are violations of NCAA rules... Clarett knew those rules, yet he cheefully went ahead and ignored them...

That makes him a punk, too...

And we have at least 2 documented instances in which he quit when the going got tough...

That's characteristic of your average, everyday punk, too...

For you to argue that "he's not so bad", just because he's only gotten in trouble with the law once is quite asinine...

Yes, He's not a punk. ONE run in with the law at age 18 doesn't make a person a punk. Common sense bro

a) It's not just his ONE run-in with the law (though yes, I do think that anybody who would lie on a police report in order to cash in is a punk), it's all the other things he's done... and you know that, so your constant focus on that one crime is really quite dishonest of you...

b) While I generally don't have any problems with folks using familiarities like "bro", in this case I find it offensive... I wouldn't chose to be "bros" with somebody who so blithely dismisses such consistently antisocial behavior... it makes me believe that you'd be quite willing to engage in similarly antisocial behavior...

So why didn't they send him packing after he got a new vehicle which he couldn't afford??

Again, you try to justify things by blaming everybody else but your precious Maurice... yes, Ohio State has culpability in this incident, but no, that does NOT mitigate what the punk did...

Presumably, your momma and daddy taught you that two rights do not make a wrong... Clarett knew the rules, and he CHOSE to ignore them... the second he made that decision, he and he alone is responsible for his actions...

It's called personal accountability; look into it...

It's laughable to see you try and justify Claretts dismissal from the team when these kind of things have been going on forever.

Actually, YOU'RE the one who's trying to justify Clarett's behavior... you're an excuse a minute...

Wait a sec, are you Maurice?? Or perhaps you're some college athlete on the take your own self??

So he's a punk because he got his poor mother a car?????

When he didn't have the MONEY to buy the car, you bet your *** he is...

.I don't know where you're from, but if my poor mother needed a car and I am at an institution that has been giving hand-outs to students in my position for decades, I'd take the money and buy the car.

And at that point, you'd be a punk, too... my late Mother would never have accepted a car from me when she knew there was no way I could have bought it, in fact she would have given me serious h*ll until I took it back...

Using my logic ( which is the same as the LAW), Leonard little isn't a murder. It is called involuntary Man Slaughter. It's a serious offense, but the law recognize that it wasn't intentional.[/quote]

Man, you really are one to try to turn punks into victims, aren't you?? There is nothing MORE intentional than driving when you're drunk...

Wouldn't Leonardo Little be considered a celebrity in St. Loius...... Why didn't he get off...

Three months for KILLING a woman?? I'd say he DID get off... for sure, I wouldn't get such a lenient sentence if I was standing before that judge, you can bet on that...

Of course theres something wrong, the DA and judge decided he should pay the price $100 fine....... LMFAO

Y'know what, if you REALLY find falsifying a police report to be so freaking funny, it's quite likely that you're a punk, too...

Atleast I am not drawing analogies to vehicular manslaughter in a case that involves practices that have been going on at Major colleges.

I am ragging on Ohio because they left Clarett out to dry and ripped him in the media, when they have been condoning the things Clarett did for decades.

Hey, I'd be on your side if that was ALL you were doing... if Ohio State gets slapped down hard by the NCAA, they'll deserve it...

But you're doing considerably more than that, you're trying to use their wrongdoing to justify Clarett's... and that's pure enough bovine fecal matter to use as fertilizer in your garden...

You must be naive and seriously quite dumb to think it all start when Clarett go to campus. He didn't create a problem at Ohio.

I would indeed be naive and seriously quite dumb, if I'd said anything like that...

Kindly show me where I did... attempting to twist my arguments into something they're not is the clearest possible indication that you're aware you're losing this argument... it's also quite dishonest, Maurice...

He became part of the problem and lashed out when they tried to black ball him to cover their a$$.

He became part of the problem when he went on the take...

Actually I could careless about Ohio. I am not trying to justify what Clarett did.

Now you're just lying to yourself... every post you've made to this thread has been an attempt to justify what he did... every laughing reference to "he ONLY got a hundred dollar fine" is an attempt to minimize the severity of what he did, as well as an attempt to pretend that he never did anything else...

I just think it's idiotic to black ball a player for doing things that have been common in all collegiate programs that have success, especially when Clarett has proven he's a stud on the field.

There's no "black-balling" going on... "black-balling" would involve denying Clarett the right to enter the draft at all... another form of "black-balling" would be if no NFL teams drafted him, and nobody bothered to sign him as an unrestricted free agent...

Yes, the NFL kept him from entering the draft last year; that was because their rules forbid ANYBODY in that situation from entering the draft... there was no "black-balling" to that, and he wasn't the only one kept from entering the draft under that rule... but now that he has waited long enough to become eligible, he is fully eligible, and the only thing holding him back is his colorful history as a punk... well, those 40 times didn't help him, either...

There is no documentation or proof of Clarett taking short cuts in High School. Infact your article clearly stated he graduated early.

Clarett tried to buck the status quo in the NFL, he turned around and bettered himself to get into the draft the right way.

[quote]I call them like I see 'em too bro. You have taken a couple of mistakes made by a 18 year old player and stereotyped him.

It's a LOT more than a "couple of mistakes"... if it was just a couple, I would be willing to make allowances for his youth... but even at his workout a coupla days ago, he's STILL not being honest about those mistakes of his youth... his failure to stand up and disavow the things he did, his constant attempts to justify them, strongly suggest to me that he's still a punk...

silverbear

04-01-2005, 08:39 PM

Ever had a speeding ticket Silverbear?

Sure haven't... been driving since 1970, and the only time I have ever been hauled over by a state trooper was when I had a leaky exhaust on my 1967 Camaro, and got cited for excessive noise...

And when I went to court, I had an affidavit from my mechanics testifying to the fact the part was on order, and the repair had subsequently been performed, so the judge dismissed the case...

If so then you have had a run-in with the law so I guess that makes you or anyone else that has had a run-in with the law a punk....right?

Nope... Clarett has done a LOT more than that, and you know it... and of course, getting stopped for speeding is considerably different than an attempt to defraud an insurance company by lying on a police report...

Yeah lets act like Clarett is the only athlete in the history of college football who's family has come up with gifts.

Actually, the car thing doesn't bother me near as much as some of the other crap he's pulled... I just mentioned it to provide a full list of his transgressions...

Like most of us wouldn't have done the same thing if we were 18 and had the talent Clarett had and were just being given things. If someone came up to you tomorrow and offered you $10,000 because you were good at whatever you did would you turn it down?

If it's against the rules for me to do it, you bet your *** I would... and if it was ILLEGAL, I might punch out the guy who offered me the cash...

I don't think anyone is saying he did absolutely nothing wrong, it's just that most of us are applying the common sense rules here. We aren't ready to throw the kid off the face of the earth because he made a mistake. You have made mistakes in life I'll bet. What if no one gave you a second chance because of those mistakes? Where would you be today?

Again, this is a bullsh*t argument... I am NOT saying that Clarett should not get a second chance... I have NEVER said that... I'm saying the COWBOYS shouldn't give him that chance... perhaps the Cowboys more than any other team, as they're still trying to dig out from the sordid little scandals of the 90s...

Please, Ohio State got what they wanted, a national championship and then kicked him off the team. Do you not believe a single word that Clarett says about Ohio State?

I don't CARE about what Ohio State did, not in the context of this argument... Ohio State is not looking to get drafted in a few weeks, Maurice Clarett is... now, if I had a kid who was a fine athlete, and being recruited by colleges, I would probably advise him to stay away from Ohio State...

Again act like Clarett is the first player to ever receive improper benefits.

Show me any other player with Clarett's track record, and I wouldn't want him either...

I've gotta get ready for work now, but I'll revisit the rest of your post when I get a little time later on tonight...

jobberone

04-01-2005, 09:48 PM

Sure haven't... been driving since 1970, and the only time I have ever been hauled over by a state trooper was when I had a leaky exhaust on my 1967 Camaro, and got cited for excessive noise...

Irrelevant. Deflection from the real topic.

And when I went to court, I had an affidavit from my mechanics testifying to the fact the part was on order, and the repair had subsequently been performed, so the judge dismissed the case...

Irrelevant. Deflection. Who cares.

Nope... Clarett has done a LOT more than that, and you know it... and of course, getting stopped for speeding is considerably different than an attempt to defraud an insurance company by lying on a police report...

Highly inflammatory and still deflecting from the main point. Can the guy play football? His character issues are too minor by objective criteria to warrant not obtaining a good RB. He LIED. Give me a break. He has no criminal record.

If you want to argue he appears to be surrounded by too much controversy and there are other players out there who are less risk in terms of possibly causing locker room trouble and coaching headaches then you have a valid argument. Barely. It's not as if you're going to use a first rounder and lose lots of money. The risks are not that great. Just a judgment call on my part but you are overreacting. You seem to cause more trouble wherever you are than Clarett does.

Actually, the car thing doesn't bother me near as much as some of the other crap he's pulled... I just mentioned it to provide a full list of his transgressions...

If it's against the rules for me to do it, you bet your *** I would... and if it was ILLEGAL, I might punch out the guy who offered me the cash...

Then you would be guilty of assault and battery. If it was aggravated enough then it would be a felony. Don't judge other people so harshly unless you wish to be judged. Which is why I'm taking the time to judge you myself. Don't create so much verbage and venom over a lie when you would strike someone who offended you. What hypocrisy! Follow your own advice.

Again, this is a bullsh*t argument... I am NOT saying that Clarett should not get a second chance... I have NEVER said that... I'm saying the COWBOYS shouldn't give him that chance... perhaps the Cowboys more than any other team, as they're still trying to dig out from the sordid little scandals of the 90s...

OK but still overstated IMO. He hasn't done enough to warrant bannishment. However, I agree he's a controversial person. You should be able to identify and empathize with that don't you think.

I don't CARE about what Ohio State did, not in the context of this argument... Ohio State is not looking to get drafted in a few weeks, Maurice Clarett is... now, if I had a kid who was a fine athlete, and being recruited by colleges, I would probably advise him to stay away from Ohio State...

I don't care either. But don't judge Clarett any more harshly than the entire college scenario. Again I'm being as harshly judgmental with you as you are with Clarett. How does it feel?

Show me any other player with Clarett's track record, and I wouldn't want him either...

Ok he has some pros and cons and therefore will be drafted in the lower rounds. His loss and not yours.

I've gotta get ready for work now, but I'll revisit the rest of your post when I get a little time later on tonight...

I will be anxiously awaiting your next rampage against someone you don't even know.

You on the other hand I do know from your past posts here, past boards and present other boards. I have no idea what you're trying to compensate for but it has to be significant.

Why am I bothering to judge you.

Because you bore the hell out of me.

Take your silly avatars back to your kingdom and give us all a break.

wxcpo

04-01-2005, 09:59 PM

Nope... Clarett has done a LOT more than that, and you know it... and of course, getting stopped for speeding is considerably different than an attempt to defraud an insurance company by lying on a police report

Please Clarett hasn't done as much as people would like to believe. He lied to the police, he never attempted insurance fraud so everyone needs to get off that kick. Why do I say he never attempted insurance fraud? Because to be attempted anything implies that it actually was ATTEMPTED Clarett didn't even sign the police report, nor did he file an insurance claim against the items. You can't be accused of attempting something if you never attempted it. Also it wasn't like he was caught before he could file the claim either. The break-in occured on 17 April, the story didn't break until 29 July, a full 3 plus months later.

He lied to NCAA investigators to protect his school, a school that turned their back on him and made him out to be the scapegoat. I'm not saying Clarett is perfect or without flaws, none of us are, but to say he's a punk and loser for doing what is common in alot of big time college programs when Dallas has had their share of problem players that we have all rooted for is being a little more than hypocritical.

I'm saying the COWBOYS shouldn't give him that chance

I have stated I don't want the Cowboys to take him either. I really want him to go somewhere he can have a chance to start and be a productive player. {sarcasm on} I would much rather see the Cowboys use their 5th, 6th and 7th round picks on WRs and DBs that will never play those positions, but may have a place on special teams.{sarcasm off}

Show me any other player with Clarett's track record, and I wouldn't want him either

So you wanted the team to dump Irvin and Erik Williams right? I mean with all the drug problems and rape allegations you had to have wanted the Cowboys to get rid of them right?

goshan

04-01-2005, 10:52 PM

junk

04-01-2005, 11:05 PM

Its not like Clarett robbed a store... Stole a laptop(Ned)... Beat his Wife(S.Rolle)...Attacked little kids(M.Harrison)...Ran over a civilian(Whichever Dallas CB did that a few years ago) or anything, he just had problems with the ncaa... I can say there have been worse players in the pro's. 4.6 range isnt that slow, if you recall you guys want M.Williams who runs a 4.59. Take him with a comp. pick. What do we have to lose?

Uh, no not just problems with the NCAA, he lied to the police as well.

Edited after reading the whole thread. Silverbear pretty much nailed this one. Everyone wants to defend him, but fails to recognize the pattern with Clarett. It isn't one thing, but a series of events that point to a very immature player with a serious lack of responsibility.

Reminds me of Leon from the Budweiser ads blaming his teammates for a loss and then being questioned about his four fumbles.

I want nothing to do with this guy. He had one OK year at Ohio State. Archie Griffin had a couple too and didn't turn out to be much of an NFL back.

silverbear

04-01-2005, 11:50 PM

The final straw is use of the term "sociopathic"! There many, many people who commit insurance fraud and worse crimes; it doesn't make them sociopathic. Clarett main and probably only problem was he didn't didn't "play ball" off the field, too.

Committing frequent antisocial acts makes you a sociopath... the problem is, too many people in the world today equate "sociopath", with "psychopath"... a sociopath is somebody who regularly ignores the mores and standards of society... somebody who just doesn't care at all about doing the right thing...

It stuns me how much people are willing to forgive OSU for allowing its boosters to give Clarett money and its teachers to give him preferential treatment on exams!!

Well, I'm not one of those people... Ohio State should accept their responsibility for what they did wrong, and Clarett should accept his responsibility for what he did wrong... I'm a big believer in personal accountability...

At the same time, the Cowboys won't have Ohio State University to draft in a few weeks, so I'm not as concerned about them in the context of this argument...

As for boosters paying him-- to me it would be stange (almost sociopathic) behavior if an ahtlete refused all money and gifts.

And to me, it would be indicative of an HONORABLE man...

Let me it to you this way-- my Dad was a 20 year Army man, and was even a drill sergeant early in his career... he instilled in me a deep and abiding belief in acting honorably... and if I had done half of what Maurice Clarett did at Ohio State, he would have looked me up and beat me bloody (not that he was mean or sadistic, but he had a rigid moral code)... and I would have deserved it...

So maybe it's not that I was so much an honorable man back then as it was I scared to cross the old man... you would have been too, he was an all-Services boxer in two different weight classes when he was a young man...

We laughed when Eric Dickerson joked with Rams management during a contract negotiation that he was paid more by SMU, but it's acceptable to hammer Clarett and so some do.

Look, you're starting to go down the same road as the rest of the Clarett apologists I've argued with today; if Clarett's ONLY transgression was accepting improper benefits, then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal...

And if Clarett's ONLY transgression was filing a false police report, then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal...

And if Clarett's ONLY transgression was quitting in the middle of his combine workout, then maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal...

But when you take them ALL TOGETHER, it paints a mighty disturbing picture of the guy... go back and reread my initial post in this thread, and consider the SUM of what he's done... then ask yourself if you'd trust a guy like that to work for you, or even to be your friend...

I challenge all of the Clarett apologists to do the same...

silverbear

04-02-2005, 12:03 AM

Again act like Clarett is the first player to ever receive improper benefits.

Ahhhh, but accepting improper benefits is only PART of the picture...

That's what you Clarett apologists do, take each and every accusation and isolate them, then say "that's no big deal", or "everybody does it"... well, first off, those are the excuses of a CHILD... but more important, each of these accusations is just PART of the picture...

Take a look at the BIG PICTURE, as I did in my initial post, and a pattern emerges that tells you a lot about his lack of character, and his lack of discipline and work ethic...

You think for a second head coach Jim Tressel didn't know what his brother was doing?

Plenty of this out there on the web, it's just that some people would rather ignore Clarett's side, automatically say it isn't true. No way would Ohio State coaches do any of the things Clarett or anyone else has accused them of.

Sure Clarett deserves his share of the blame, some of the problems he self created, but the University did hang him out to dry and tried to make him look bad in order to take the light off themselves.

Yes, they did... they have covered themselves in shame in all of this...

And that does NOTHING to excuse what Clarett did... in fact, it's a straw man in the context of this argument... just because Ohio State acted contemptibly does not give Clarett carte blanche to act equally contemptibly... ultimately, he CHOSE to do those things, even though he KNEW they were against the rules...

Here's something for your reading pleasure.

Oh no he lied to the police. Why are we even allowing this guy to walk the streets or any other 18 or 19 year old kid who has done the same exact thing. We should round all those liars up and exile them to some island where we never have to see their lying faces ever again. Get off your high horse like you have never done anything wrong.

Nope, I never have lied to the police... never have done any of the things Clarett has done...

He never signed the police report and never did file an insurance claim. Not saying insurance fraud is a frivilous crime, but he never filed a claim. To be attempted anything the person has to actually attempt it which Clarett did not do.

And why exactly do you think he falsified that report?? COMMON SENSE tells you that he planned on fleecing the insurance company... it just happened that the media jumped all over this incident, and uncovered his plan before he had the chance to put it into effect...

Go on, give me a benign (and sensible) interpretation on why he falsified that report...

So you probably wouldn't have liked to have had a RB by the name of Priest Holmes on our roster then huh? Seeing how he did run a 4.75 at the NFL combine, the guy is such a failure isn't he.

And he went undrafted... oooops...

wxcpo

04-02-2005, 12:15 AM

Look, you're starting to go down the same road as the rest of the Clarett apologists I've argued with today; if Clarett's ONLY transgression was accepting improper benefits, then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal...

And if Clarett's ONLY transgression was filing a false police report, then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal...

And if Clarett's ONLY transgression was quitting in the middle of his combine workout, then maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal...

But when you take them ALL TOGETHER, it paints a mighty disturbing picture of the guy... go back and reread my initial post in this thread, and consider the SUM of what he's done... then ask yourself if you'd trust a guy like that to work for you, or even to be your friend...

I challenge all of the Clarett apologists to do the same...

If Irvin's only transgression was getting caught with cocaine while celebrating his 30th birthday then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal...

If Irvin's only transgression was being in a hotel room with 2 women whom neither one being his wife then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal...

If Irvin's only transgression was being busted again for drugs in 2000 and again being in a house with an unrelated female then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal....

But when you take them all together it paints a mighty disturbing picture of the guy. Taking these facts into account wouldn't it be hard to trust the guy to work for you or even be your friend.

I challenge all the Irvin apologists to do the same.

See if you really wanna paint a bad picture of a guy it's not that hard, the Cowboys sure have had their share throughout the years, but it didn't stop most of us for rooting them on as they were winning superbowls. As long as they are helping us win we are willing to overlook their off-the-field problems, but not Clarett, he hasn't done anything to help our beloved Cowboys.

CowboyDan

04-02-2005, 12:23 AM

As a Penn State Alum and a Cowboys fan I have to say that Clarrett Sucks and I hope the Boys stay away from him. As for Benson, I think he and Cadillac Williams will be solid, but not spectacular backs in the NFL. And one thing to remember about Emmitt Smith.......though he only had 4.5+ speed, he never got caught from behind because his heart was twice the size of a normal NFL player. Just ask that chump from the Vikings that tried to tackle him when Emmitt broke his own hand stiff arming him in the chops!

wxcpo

04-02-2005, 12:26 AM

Nope, I never have lied to the police... never have done any of the things Clarett has done

Never asked if you lied to the police, only asked if you had ever done anything wrong. Seriously doubt you can say no to that.

And why exactly do you think he falsified that report?? COMMON SENSE tells you that he planned on fleecing the insurance company... it just happened that the media jumped all over this incident, and uncovered his plan before he had the chance to put it into effect

Sorry think I have already sunk your ship on this one in a previous post. He filed the police report (which he never signed) in April and the media didn't even catch wind of it until July. So he had plenty of time to sign that report and file an insurance claim. So why in 3 months did he not? C'mon give me a sensible reason why in over 3 months he had failed to sign the report or file a claim.

And he went undrafted... oooops...

Yep he sure did go undrafted, but that only proves that NFL scouts can be dead wrong about a player no matter how slow he runs at the combine.

Seriously Silverbear we could go round and round like this forever. You don't like Clarett where I am rooting for the kid to overcome his past mistakes and be a productive NFL RB. He may end up being a bust, no of us know at this point how he will turn out. We could speculate until the cows come home, but that's all it is at this point, speculation. I just grow tired of everyone piling on the kid when the Cowboys organizaion has had several players that have done far worse things, but we loved them while they played for the team.

I don't get the Clarett apologists title though because if a person roots for someone that has had a few problems in the past that instantly makes them an apologist? I guess the guy states the guy is a punk or a loser does that make them a Clarett hater then?

silverbear

04-02-2005, 12:40 AM

jobberone flatulated:

Originally Posted by silverbear
Sure haven't... been driving since 1970, and the only time I have ever been hauled over by a state trooper was when I had a leaky exhaust on my 1967 Camaro, and got cited for excessive noise...

Irrelevant. Deflection from the real topic.

Yeah, RIGHT... I was sarcastically asked if I had never gotten a speeding ticket, as if that was the moral equivalent of filing a false police report... my answer was directly responsibe to that challenge, and as such was clearly not irrelevant...

Nope... Clarett has done a LOT more than that, and you know it... and of course, getting stopped for speeding is considerably different than an attempt to defraud an insurance company by lying on a police report...

Highly inflammatory and still deflecting from the main point. Can the guy play football? His character issues are too minor by objective criteria to warrant not obtaining a good RB.

And yet, a player who a coupla years ago was being mentioned as a likely first round pick, based on his considerable talent, is now considered a likely late round pick... he didn't suddenly lose that talent, so clearly NFL personnel people do not consider his character issues to be "minor"...

He LIED.

And he accepted improper benefits... a LOT of improper benefits... and he's STILL lying to us, telling us that all of his problems were just NCAA-related (as if that was an excuse)... clearly, the filing of a false police report, and subsequently being convicted and fined of doing that, has nothing to do with the NCAA... so, he's still lying to us...

And then there's the matter of his repeatedly quitting when things got too tough for him... walking out on his midterm, when he wasn't prepared for it... walking out of the combine, when he ran slower than he liked... this is another character defect, and a deadly one for somebody who aspires to playing in the NFL...

If you want to argue he appears to be surrounded by too much controversy and there are other players out there who are less risk in terms of possibly causing locker room trouble and coaching headaches then you have a valid argument.

That's a big part of what I'm arguing, actually... you did a nice summation there... but there's a little more to it, too, like my reservations about the ability of a guy who seems to always take the shortcut, legal or not, to pay the price in discipline to be the best...

There are lots of really talented athletes who have never made it at the pro level, simply because they lacked the discipline and work ethic necessary to excel...

Then you would be guilty of assault and battery. If it was aggravated enough then it would be a felony.

C'mon, don't be anal... that was just my hyperbolic way of saying I would react with extreme negativity to anybody who tried to get me to take money under the table in that situation...

OK but still overstated IMO. He hasn't done enough to warrant bannishment.

This has to be at least the sixth time today some Clarett apologist has claimed that I'm seeking to get the guy banished... I challenge you to find any quote from me that says anything of the sort...

I've said it before, constantly dragging in straw men like this is a clear indicator that you lack the ammunition to argue the FACTS...

Trying to turn this into a debate on Ohio State's culpability is a straw man... claiming that the NCAA and the NFL are conspiring to "blacklist" Maurice is a straw man... and claiming that I wish to see the guy banished from the NFL forever is a straw man...

The truth is, I just don't want the Cowboys to draft him, because I think he'll turn around and bite them in the ***...

I don't care either. But don't judge Clarett any more harshly than the entire college scenario.

Let's be clear about something, this isn't just about Maurice Clarett for me... this is about my general loathing for ALL punk athletes, who feel like their celebrity gives them license to ignore society's rules... included in that list are Randy Moss, Plaxico Burress and Allan Iverson... all of them are punks... ANYBODY who thinks that he's deserving of special rules because he's rich, or talented, is a punk...

I most admire the athletes who are good, and still manage to be decent human beings...

Again I'm being as harshly judgmental with you as you are with Clarett. How does it feel?

I can't imagine one of your judgements ever bothering me, even slightly... perhaps that's because you're proving to me in the course of this argument that your values are somewhat out of whack...

You on the other hand I do know from your past posts here, past boards and present other boards.

Yup, a man's actions have consequences, and that includes me... I am fully aware that I am judged by the content of my posts online, and I am content to be judged by that content... some folks really, really like me, and some wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire... it has always been that way for people who are willing to take a stand... it's the strangest thing, though, those that hold me in contempt are generally people I have little to no respect for...

So I'm willing to accept responsibility for my own actions, and Maurice Clarett really needs to learn to do the same... until he does, there isn't a snowball's chance in Hades that he'll ever "grow up"...

Why am I bothering to judge you.

Because you bore the hell out of me.

Gee, when somebody bores me, I generally don't bother to read his posts... and I certainly don't bother to respond to them... rather than boring you, it appears that I ANNOY you...

That's your problem, because in the immortal words of that noted sage and philosopher Popeye, "I yam what I yam"... and I certainly don't plan on changing that for the likes of you...

silverbear

04-02-2005, 12:48 AM

Please Clarett hasn't done as much as people would like to believe.

Refer back to my initial post, in which I outline his transgressions while at Ohio State... that's all I'm claiming that Maurice "has done"...

Nobody has bothered to dispute that he did ANY of the things listed in that post...

He lied to the police, he never attempted insurance fraud so everyone needs to get off that kick.

OK, Mr. Semantics, let me concede the point-- saying he "attempted" insurance fraud is going a little too far... so let me amend that to he PLANNED on attempting insurance fraud... that is clearly the ONLY reason he misstated the value of the goods in that car at the time of the break-in... the only reason he never actually got around to "attempting" that fraud is the truth came to light very, very quickly, and he never had a chance to follow through with his little plan...

He lied to NCAA investigators to protect his school, a school that turned their back on him and made him out to be the scapegoat. I'm not saying Clarett is perfect or without flaws, none of us are, but to say he's a punk and loser for doing what is common in alot of big time college programs when Dallas has had their share of problem players that we have all rooted for is being a little more than hypocritical.

If the Cowboys had known about the sociopathic problems of a few of their players before they drafted them, I wouldn't have been in favor of drafting them... and I was highly critical of the players who embarrassed the team, every last one of them-- once it was proven they had indeed done what they were accused of... I always waited for the truth to come out, and many times (like in the case of Nina Shahravan and Irvin and Williams) I was glad that I did wait...

But the transgressions of Maurice Clarett are clearly documented, and don't seem to be in dispute by even you Clarett apologists... you have tried to minimize the severity of what he did, but you have not denied that he did it... this is a tacit admission that my accusations against him are legitimate; you and the other Clarett apologists just don't seem to think it's a big deal...

Clearly, I strenuously disagree with that take...

Hostile

04-02-2005, 12:49 AM

If Irvin's only transgression was getting caught with cocaine while celebrating his 30th birthday then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal...

If Irvin's only transgression was being in a hotel room with 2 women whom neither one being his wife then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal...

If Irvin's only transgression was being busted again for drugs in 2000 and again being in a house with an unrelated female then maybe that wouldn't be such a big deal....

But when you take them all together it paints a mighty disturbing picture of the guy. Taking these facts into account wouldn't it be hard to trust the guy to work for you or even be your friend.

I challenge all the Irvin apologists to do the same.

See if you really wanna paint a bad picture of a guy it's not that hard, the Cowboys sure have had their share throughout the years, but it didn't stop most of us for rooting them on as they were winning superbowls. As long as they are helping us win we are willing to overlook their off-the-field problems, but not Clarett, he hasn't done anything to help our beloved Cowboys.If Michael Irvin had done all those things prior to being drafted as opposed to having a History with the Dallas Cowboys I guarantee you that there would be fans of this team who would not want to draft him in any round.

If you doubt this then I question whether you are being honest with yourself, much less with others.

Is it wrong for fans to "forgive" Michael instead of holding him to scorn? I can't answer that, but I can say there are plenty of folks against Maurice Clarett being brought here who probably were sick to their stomachs over Irvin's "offenses" and were probably quite critical of him. I can't speak for everyone else, but I can for myself. I was on two National radio sports talk shows during those days being openly critical of Irvin.

I love him for what he gave this team and I truly appreaciate his talent, but put the actions you just described in a draft prospect and I won't want anything to do with him.

If want to label me a horrible human being or call me a hypocrite go right ahead. Whatever helps you deal with the fact that I and others are critical of Clarett's actions. The fact of the matter is that I was a very big fan of drafting Randy Moss who had personal issues. I can be forgiving. I also reserve the right to be adamant and critical of someone whose multitude of mis-steps simply tell me he isn't worth the risk.

If Clarett had Moss' incredible physical tools I might feel differently, but I doubt it. You see, until this last season I never saw Moss simply quit on his team. As someone who played team sports that is something I find truly galling. Clarett not only quit on his team he quit at the Combine. Bad karma there. If he were running the 40 in under 4.4 lots of people would feel differently. I doubt I'd be among them for that issue alone. Even if I found his "offenses" with the law to be minor faux pas which I don't. I simply don't respect fraud. Makes me no never mind about a $100 fine. If that is the rationale behind looking past his attempt at fraud then you simply don't understand fraud and how it affects you.

I won't even go into the allegations of relationships with known gamblers. I mean after all, he couldn't affect an outcome of a football game. [/sarcasm off]

Show me one positive thing since the Fiesta Bowl that I attended that puts this kid in an elite category like Moss and I'll change my tune. Just one thing. Not too much to ask. Is it?

Since that day every public issue about him has been negative. At some point in time the casual, non-Buckeye fan is going to say "enough is enough, pass on this guy." That is all that is happening here. Fans see the mounting evidence of character issues and prefer other options.

Call me a "hater" or whatever label makes you feel better about my opinion. I've lived through it in the past with one of our QBs and suspect I'll survive the label again.

silverbear

04-02-2005, 12:52 AM

Edited after reading the whole thread. Silverbear pretty much nailed this one. Everyone wants to defend him, but fails to recognize the pattern with Clarett. It isn't one thing, but a series of events that point to a very immature player with a serious lack of responsibility.

Man, I just HATE guys like you, who can sum up the argument I've burned up all this bandwidth arguing in one short paragraph... LOL...

That was a very good summarization of my position in all this, junk... it's the PATTERN of his behavior these last 2-3 years that bothers me...

silverbear

04-02-2005, 01:06 AM

Never asked if you lied to the police, only asked if you had ever done anything wrong. Seriously doubt you can say no to that.

About the worst thing I can think of is I smoked a little weed in my time... then again, I'm not trying to play in the NFL, and if I was, that would be held against me...

It's rathe silly of you to lump all crimes into the same category... a speeding ticket is rather a different thing from lying to the police... my actions did not cause anybody any loss...

Sorry think I have already sunk your ship on this one in a previous post. He filed the police report (which he never signed) in April and the media didn't even catch wind of it until July. So he had plenty of time to sign that report and file an insurance claim. So why in 3 months did he not? C'mon give me a sensible reason why in over 3 months he had failed to sign the report or file a claim.

Gee, I dunno, perhaps his momma got wind of what he planned, and put a stop to it... I'd like to think it was something like that...

Now, your turn-- if you have the cojones... explain to me why you think he falsified that report in the first place, if not as the first step in an attempt to rip off the insurance company...

Seriously Silverbear we could go round and round like this forever.

Isn't that what these message boards are for?? Especially this time of the year; it ain't like there's a heck of a lot else to talk about...

I don't get the Clarett apologists title though because if a person roots for someone that has had a few problems in the past that instantly makes them an apologist?

Of course not... but you have isolated just about every accusation I've levelled against him, and tried to justify the actions... you didnt DENY the actions, you just tried to paint them in as positive a light as you can...

That DOES make you an apologist... of course, you're not the only one doing that... and I don't mean that in any pejorative way, if I had wanted to insult you guys I would have called you Clarett groupies...

I guess the guy states the guy is a punk or a loser does that make them a Clarett hater then?

I AM a Clarett hater, in the sports fan's use of the word... I make no apologies for that...

I am also a Randy Moss hater, a Plaxico Burress hater, and an Allan Iverson hater... I just hate punk athletes in general...

jman

04-02-2005, 07:16 AM

Emmitt ran about the same time and Cedric Benson ran about a 4.65 and is considered the #2 or if nothing else a top 8 pick. Clarett performed on the field and told a lie, I wish him luck and would not be surprised to see him go in the 4th or 5th round......

Will we draft him? not sure we might or wont and I would be happy to have him as JJ backup if nothing else, shoot maybe he can play a little FB he has the size and will do anything possible to make a team.......just a opinion folks!!!!

I think he will be a servicable back, he will be better than Cason, Lee, Anthony Thomas and a handfull of RBs in the NFL, that I do know.....

Emmitt and Benson preformed for several years at the college level and proved they were worth being taken despite the preceived lack of speed if that's what you are getting at.

Clarett has only proven one thing so far...nothing, period. Is he a one year wonder? Who knows? It has taken him three times to get his pro work outs right. He totally screwed himself last year coming to the combine out of shape. He quite at the combine this year. And now he has a so-so work out on the third try? How many players would love to have that many do overs?

Right now, I wouldn't waste a pick any higher than a 7th rounder. If I was Clarett, I would hope I wouldn't get drafted at all. That way I could pick and choose my potential team and go with the best fit. Getting drafted in the last couple of rounds may tie me to a team that I have no chance to show what I really do have and can do, verses a team that may truely have needs at RB and will give me a better chance.

Besides, the money may be better or just as good as a late round pick and be tied up a shorter period of time if things don't work out.

jobberone

04-02-2005, 07:54 AM

Man, I just HATE guys like you, who can sum up the argument I've burned up all this bandwidth arguing in one short paragraph... LOL...

That was a very good summarization of my position in all this, junk... it's the PATTERN of his behavior these last 2-3 years that bothers me...

There's nothing wrong with saying his pattern of behavior bothers you. It's a cause of concern for most and it's why he's in one draft postion and M Williams is in another. Not to mention the tangibles of his workouts which don't blow you away.

That's a totally different statement from the ones you made earlier.

I feel the same about him. Here is a potential problem and I would draft accordingly. I'm not an apologist for this guy. I'm an apologist for everyone up to a point.

Say what you mean and mean what you say. Put controversial, insensitive and inflammatory remarks out there and eventually people will tire of it. Not to mention board king remarks and strutting avatars. Of course being the center of controversy appears to be something you seek out and relish. Don't be surprised if someone gets tired of hearing your strutting peacock rhetoric and calls you out on occasion.

And you're right. You are annoying as well as boring.

But I don't care to feed whatever it is you crave so have fun. I've said what I wanted to say.

CaptainComeback

04-02-2005, 09:07 AM

ghettogandhi

04-02-2005, 10:18 AM

In NFL terms, 4.6x is very slow for an NFL HB. Clarett isn't worth a 5 or lower pick withis lack of proven talent over several years and his off-the-field issues. Emmitt was in the 4.5x range....although the difference sounds small it is very significant in pro-football.

Benson is a bonifide bust waiting to happen. He is eddie george at age 28. He should be a late 2nd. The big, slowish backs (ala Chris Perry) won't produce in today's NFL unless they are EXCEPTIONAL athletic talents. Cedric isn't and won't.

4.65 or so is definitely not a fast time- it doesnt mean that he cant be a great rb (ie Emmitt Smith, Jerome Bettis,Priest Holmes etc)

Rb requires more than speed- quickness is more important and vital, good vision to see the hole, the ability to make tacklers miss and the ability to be able to lean forward on nearly every run and get an extra yard or so

George and Benson are different type runners-

George is a pure power back who uses his body as a battering ram while Benson is a little more elusive than that-

I have Benson as the 3rd best back behind Cadillac and Ronnie Brown but he may be as low as 5th or so depending on how teams evaluate potential in rbs-

Snaggletooth

04-02-2005, 10:45 AM

George is a pure power back who uses his body as a battering ram

To bad for us George was lacking in the "pure power" department last year.

wxcpo

04-02-2005, 12:38 PM

About the worst thing I can think of is I smoked a little weed in my time... then again, I'm not trying to play in the NFL, and if I was, that would be held against me

You're right it would be held against you as Clarett's actions are being held against him. Are you saying you broke the law and shouldn't be labeled a punk, thug or loser simply because you aren't trying to play in the NFL while Clarett is? So Maurice Clarett the teenager should be held to a higher standard than you? Clarett is in the position he's in because of what he's done, I don't think anyone is saying Clarett deserves to be a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th round pick based on his behavior and workout performances. I just think that some of us aren't labeling the guy a punk, bust or loser as quick as some are. He was an 18, 19 year old kid that made some mistakes and made some wrong decisions.

Now if Clarett was a 25 year old man pulling some of the stuff he has and saying some of the stuff he has then yes I would agree you you that he was a punk. I was 18 once and I did some immature things that most 18 year old kids do and some of the things I did because of the people around me and the opportunities presented and I was on my own for the first time in my life. You think maybe part of what Clarett did was because of those same reasons? The thing is like most people as I grew older I matured and I got away from those type of people and now I have a very successful 18 year military career where I have risen to the 2nd highest enlisted paygrade you can hold (E-8).

I'm not saying Clarett will mature any from this day forward, none of us know what will become of Maurice Clarett, but so many are willing to label him a loser, punk, thug and bust based on the actions of an 18 and 19 year old kid. I am just willing to cut the guy some slack and see what he does with his life and his career. He may never have a successful NFL career, but I hope that doesn't stop him from growing up and becoming something in life.

It's rather silly of you to lump all crimes into the same category... a speeding ticket is rather a different thing from lying to the police... my actions did not cause anybody any loss

And neither did Clarett's. When people get a speeding ticket do you think they all come right out and say ya know what officer you caught me, I was speeding fully knowing the speed limit was only 55. I'm sure some of them say ya know officer I didn't know the speed limit was only 55, while fully knowing it was. What are they doing when they do that? They are lying to the police. When people run a stop sign do you think some of them might tell the police they didn't see the sign? Again, lying to the police. It's not like Clarett pulled an unknown crime that happens so rarely that it should be held to a more higher criminal standard. His crime was a very common one, lying to the police happens on a daily, probably hourly basis in America. Doesn't make it right, but lets not go overboard here and think he pulled a heinous crime either.

Gee, I dunno, perhaps his momma got wind of what he planned, and put a stop to it... I'd like to think it was something like that

I would hope that he had a strong mom or influence that would have taken him aside and asked him to look at what he was doing and the opportunity he was wasting, but instead he choose to associate himself with Jim Brown who I believe was an even bigger detriment to him. Maybe it was himself that just woke up and said am I doing, I never had any of that stuff, I'm not signing that report and I'm not filing a claim against any of it.

Now, your turn-- if you have the cojones... explain to me why you think he falsified that report in the first place, if not as the first step in an attempt to rip off the insurance company

I do not disagree that maybe his thought was to try and take advantage of a situation, but the facts are he did not sign the police report and he did not ever file an insurance claim. Therefore he can not be accused of attempted insurance fraud.

Isn't that what these message boards are for?? Especially this time of the year; it ain't like there's a heck of a lot else to talk about

You're right and I do not mind debating at all. The good thing is we have both been able to keep it very civil and haven't gone to attcking each other like I have seen in some previos topics. Board members attacking each other rather than the message. Kudos to you.

Of course not... but you have isolated just about every accusation I've levelled against him, and tried to justify the actions... you didnt DENY the actions, you just tried to paint them in as positive a light as you can

No I haven't tried to justify his actions, nor have I tried to paint them in a positive light. What I have done is applied common sense just like the DA in Ohio did and said maybe some of his actions were a result of contributing factors such as his age, the easy money, the attention being given to him by the university, the city and the entire state of Ohio. Then when all that was taken away from him he simply wasn't mature enough to handle losing it all and keep his mouth shut, he thought he would get back at them by telling all the dirty little secrets. He is paying a price for that and he knows it so maybe he is trying hard to overcome that and I am willing to see if indeed he is truly sorry for what he has done and if he can make something out of this.

That DOES make you an apologist... of course, you're not the only one doing that... and I don't mean that in any pejorative way, if I had wanted to insult you guys I would have called you Clarett groupies

Ok so if being able to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and being willing to not jump on the bandwagon that is calling him a loser, bust, thug or punk means I am an apologists or groupie then I guess I am. It's just too bad that some people can't see that some of us aren't apologizing for the guy we simple aren't willing to jump in on the pile on.

I AM a Clarett hater, in the sports fan's use of the word... I make no apologies for that

Obviously.

I am also a Randy Moss hater, a Plaxico Burress hater, and an Allan Iverson hater... I just hate punk athletes in general...

Hey I agree with you on this one, but again these guys are all grown men who have been in their pro leagues for several seasons and should be known more for the play on the field than for their behavior off the field. You're judging Maurice the teenager and holding him to the same standards as grown men, a little unfair don't you think?