For those who think Glenn is slow

[supercowboy8]

He had the fastest 40 of all the OL and a 1.76 10 yard split

[burmafrd]

so what?

it is a lot more important to be quick and agile then run fast even at 10 yards.

[reddyuta]

I am offiacially on the glenn bandwagon,this guy can play and he is freak athlete.

[Lodeus]

The drill they are doing now, he looked the best.

[supercowboy8]

so what?

it is a lot more important to be quick and agile then run fast even at 10 yards.

Are you watching him, he is fast and agile, and hejust killed the cone drill

[ABQCOWBOY]

so what?

it is a lot more important to be quick and agile then run fast even at 10 yards.

He was also the fastest at 10 in group A. Was significantly faster then anybody from last years draft as well. If we are not careful, he's going to get drafted as a Tackle. He is impressive.

[supercowboy8]

I am offiacially on the glenn bandwagon,this guy can play and he is freak athlete.

Yes, he looks like he is a forsure OG that could also play RT if needed

[ThreeandOut]

My wife said she thought Glenn looked a little slow in the mirror drill...like it took him longer to process the information to change directions. I thought that was a pretty astute observation...especially since she normally just comments on whether the guy has a cute butt.

[supercowboy8]

He was also the fastest at 10 in group A. Was significantly faster then anybody from last years draft as well. If we are not careful, he's going to get drafted as a Tackle. He is impressive.

Yes he can be a day one RT for sure

[supercowboy8]

My wife said she thought Glenn looked a little slow in the mirror drill...like it took him longer to process the information to change directions. I thought that was a pretty astute observation...especially since she normally just comments on whether the guy has a cute butt.

Looked fine to me

[burmafrd]

Decastro shined at the mirror drill; showed his hand placement and punch.

Meanwhile Glenn was sloppy and grabbing. Glenn is flashy but Decastro is the man

[tm1119]

DeCastro is still my option at 14. Technician is really the best way to describe him. Plus he is just as strong #1 at the point of attack as anyone else. Glenn would be my 1A option though, and I dont think dropping down for him is going to be an option any more. Drafting 1 of these 2 seems like a WAAAYYY better option than breaking the bank on Nicks/Grubbs.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Decastro shined at the mirror drill; showed his hand placement and punch.

Meanwhile Glenn was sloppy and grabbing. Glenn is flashy but Decastro is the man

I didn't see any of that. I guess well see how they grade out but I though both guys looked good in the drill.

[MonsterD]

He had the fastest 40 of all the OL and a 1.76 10 yard split


Gettis was faster, also looked like the most athletic, but he is 290 lbs.

[Bowdown27]

billick said he ran a 4.9

[MonsterD]

Decastro shined at the mirror drill; showed his hand placement and punch.

Meanwhile Glenn was sloppy and grabbing. Glenn is flashy but Decastro is the man


Yeah Decastro looked perfect in that drill, he isn't the most athletic, but he is the best at thinking fast.

[ABQCOWBOY]

The other thing you consider is that if you look at Glenn, then the move for Free to RT is not as risky. You may be able to actually consider playing Glenn at RT and moving Free in to Guard. There is some flexability there if you think Glenn has the athletic ability to play RT.

[burmafrd]

The other thing you consider is that if you look at Glenn, then the move for Free to RT is not as risky. You may be able to actually consider playing Glenn at RT and moving Free in to Guard. There is some flexability there if you think Glenn has the athletic ability to play RT.

Do not see Jerruh admitting he screwed the pooch on Free by allowing him to be moved to Guard; assuming of course that Free would be a good guard.

[MonsterD]

The other thing you consider is that if you look at Glenn, then the move for Free to RT is not as risky. You may be able to actually consider playing Glenn at RT and moving Free in to Guard. There is some flexability there if you think Glenn has the athletic ability to play RT.

Isn't just athletic, Mayok said he does not have the feet to play T. I think that is fair, he is good at everything else though.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Do not see Jerruh admitting he screwed the pooch on Free by allowing him to be moved to Guard; assuming of course that Free would be a good guard.

Jerry isn't the OL coach. We paid Callahan big money to come in and make these kinds of decisions. That's who will eventually evaluate these players and decide who the best 5 will be and at what positions they will play. I'm just saying that this is an advantage to taking Glenn.

[jswalker1981]

Are you watching him, he is fast and agile, and hejust killed the cone drill

I think what he meant was these drills mean something, the 40 yard dash doesn't mean squat for a guard. How often is a guard in a situation to sprint 40 yards to block? If any offensive lineman can get out in front of a running back going full speed, then that running back needs to call it quits.

[burmafrd]

Jerry isn't the OL coach. We paid Callahan big money to come in and make these kinds of decisions. That's who will eventually evaluate these players and decide who the best 5 will be and at what positions they will play. I'm just saying that this is an advantage to taking Glenn.

man do you really think Jerruh does not have influence there?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Isn't just athletic, Mayok said he does not have the feet to play T. I think that is fair, he is good at everything else though.

I don't know that this is true. I did not hear that but Mayok also said that he was shocked at the athetisim Glenn was showing in this combine. He may not be able to play tackle but he did it at Georgia and I think he did it at LT. I don't know but from what I've seen, he has the physical.

[ABQCOWBOY]

man do you really think Jerruh does not have influence there?

I think Jerry is smarter then we give him credit for many times. I don't believe that Jerry believes he knows more then Callahan knows. We should be more worried about Jerry spending big money on a good coach, only to bring him in and over rule him because you believe you know more. That would be stupid and much more of a concern for me.

[Risen Star]

Glenn's a beast. He's in my top 15 overall. In fact, I think he's one of the 10 best prospects in this draft.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Glenn's a beast. He's in my top 15 overall. In fact, I think he's one of the 10 best prospects in this draft.

I agree.

[RS12]

Gettis was faster, also looked like the most athletic, but he is 290 lbs.

Gettis is blown up 70 pounds since he hit the Iowa campus. Always a little leary about those guys.

[RS12]

The other thing you consider is that if you look at Glenn, then the move for Free to RT is not as risky. You may be able to actually consider playing Glenn at RT and moving Free in to Guard. There is some flexability there if you think Glenn has the athletic ability to play RT.

This point actually has merit. I am not nearly as confident in Free at either tackle as I was. I could see him getting abused by every team in the division over there.

[TheCount]

lol, I forget the name but was watching this morning and they had this lineman that looked downright awful in the OL direction drills. His footwork was the worst I've ever seen, how the hell did he not get slaughtered in college with footwork like that? It was the only time I've ever see them stop in the middle of that drill and make a guy start over, and he was still awful his second go.

Sounds like the kind of guy we'd draft too, then be flummoxed as to why he was a bust. Are there any other bow legged linemen this year we can take in the first 3 rounds?

[supercowboy8]

The other thing you consider is that if you look at Glenn, then the move for Free to RT is not as risky. You may be able to actually consider playing Glenn at RT and moving Free in to Guard. There is some flexability there if you think Glenn has the athletic ability to play RT.

No I don't see that right now. If we draft Glenn I see him plugged in day one at LG.
Free has only 3 years left on his deal and we can cut him after 2 with out much of a cap hit. I see Glenn as a day one OG that can then go to RT in a few years if needed.

Also if Free or Smith gets hurt you can out Glenn at RT.

[supercowboy8]

Glenn's a beast. He's in my top 15 overall. In fact, I think he's one of the 10 best prospects in this draft.

agreed, you can't go wrong with Glenn or Decastro at 14.
Both are in my top 5 for the #14 spot

[burmafrd]

The drills that matter for a O lineman (little things like hand placement in punch, footwork, etc) Decastro is clearly better.

Glenn is faster and more athletic. But DEcastro is by far the better O lineman

[unionjack8]

who cares about thiscombine.

Its more about getting the accurate heights/weights, doing the interviews and seeing how they interact with their peers than any of the on field stuff.

David DeCastro has done it on tape, at a high level, consistently better than any otehr interior guy in this draft.

[Biggems]

Give me the intelligent guy with technique over the freak athlete any day when it comes to OL and QB.

[jnday]

Glenn could be a good guard in the NFL , but I have watched him all year and I don't think he could handle ROT on a full time basis .

[Deep_Freeze]

Well it has to be said that cause of Glenn's immense size, some on this board have posted that DeCastro would do better in agility drills and such, which obviously didn't happen.

We just drafted some guy from USC cause he was an athletic freak, yet some doubt Glenn who seems to be an athletic freak also.

Both DeCastro and Glenn are versatile, with Glenn's ability to perhaps move to tackle being more valuable in the grand scheme of things than DeCastro being able to play center.

One thing has to be seen though, no matter what you want to pick out to get whichever result you want from which guy you like in particular, they are alot closer than first thought.

[ThreeandOut]

Well it has to be said that cause of Glenn's immense size, some on this board have posted that DeCastro would do better in agility drills and such, which obviously didn't happen.

We just drafted some guy from USC cause he was an athletic freak, yet some doubt Glenn who seems to be an athletic freak also.

Both DeCastro and Glenn are versatile, with Glenn's ability to perhaps move to tackle being more valuable in the grand scheme of things than DeCastro being able to play center.

One thing has to be seen though, no matter what you want to pick out to get whichever result you want from which guy you like in particular, they are alot closer than first thought.


Glenn is very good but I think DeCastro is a better fit with what Dallas seems to be doing with their OL. It's the ability to pull and get to the second level that separates DeCastro.

[RS12]

Glenn is very good but I think DeCastro is a better fit with what Dallas seems to be doing with their OL. It's the ability to pull and get to the second level that separates DeCastro.

More importantly hitting moving targets at the second level.

[Deep_Freeze]

Glenn is very good but I think DeCastro is a better fit with what Dallas seems to be doing with their OL. It's the ability to pull and get to the second level that separates DeCastro.

Well I do agree game tape will tell you DeCastro's ability, as Glenn still has some developing to do. DeCastro is ready right now which is what we need, but it is easy to see that Glenn has alot of potential.

Everyone's favorite, Nicks, is someone I figured that would compare with Glenn. Glenn performed much better than Nicks did at his combine, although once they get to the league you never know how any player will develop.

[Biggems]

I wonder if Glenn could drop about 15-20 lbs and play at a lighter frame and be even more athletic as a RT....

[dallasfaniac]

Well it has to be said that cause of Glenn's immense size, some on this board have posted that DeCastro would do better in agility drills and such, which obviously didn't happen.

I think you are confusing straightline speed with agility. In the short shuttle DeCastro posted 4.5, Glenn 5. In the 3 cone, DeCastro posted 7.3, Glenn 8.1. Those are clearer indicators of agility, not to mention mirroring drills and such that DeCastro clearly was better. DeCastro jumped 6 inches taller, 5 inches further which shows more explosivity. Glenn has longer arms better suited for offensive tackles but not a factor at guard. Either would make a great addition to the Cowboys based upon their play in college, not due to combine results that only validated their play.

[28 Joker]

Cordy Glenn is absolutely worth the 14th pick.

I think Glenn locked himself into the top 20 today, and I think he has probably put himself in the conversation at pick 14.

Dallas, San Diego, Chicago, and Pittsburgh should all be looking at Glenn. I could see the Titans looking at Glenn, too. I could see Arizona looking at Glenn ahead of Dallas.

I want all options on the table now, and Glenn should be on the table at 14.

[Woods]

Cordy Glenn is absolutely worth the 14th pick.

I think Glenn locked himself into the top 20 today, and I think he has probably put himself in the conversation at pick 14.

Dallas, San Diego, Chicago, and Pittsburgh should all be looking at Glenn. I could see the Titans looking at Glenn, too. I could see Arizona looking at Glenn ahead of Dallas.

I want all options on the table now, and Glenn should be on the table at 14.

I think if DeCastro is gone, Glenn is a guy you have to consider at 14. I don't really know where the Cowboys would rank Glenn vs. Fitzpatrick, Jenkins, Ingram, and Upshaw however.

Who else would seriously be in the conversation at 14?

I'm assuming the top 5-6 blue chip guys are already gone (the top 2 QBs, Kalil, etc.) and we don't take a WR or RB at 14.

[realtick]

More importantly hitting moving targets at the second level.

That's the key, right there.

[realtick]

I think you are confusing straightline speed with agility. In the short shuttle DeCastro posted 4.5, Glenn 5. In the 3 cone, DeCastro posted 7.3, Glenn 8.1. Those are clearer indicators of agility, not to mention mirroring drills and such that DeCastro clearly was better. DeCastro jumped 6 inches taller, 5 inches further which shows more explosivity. Glenn has longer arms better suited for offensive tackles but not a factor at guard. Either would make a great addition to the Cowboys based upon their play in college, not due to combine results that only validated their play.

Exactly.

I was just watching a highlight of DeMarco Murray the other day and was shaking my head watching Costa whiff on block in the second level. That same defender ended up making the tackle on Murray. Gurode struggled at this too, especially during his last years in big D.

[burmafrd]

Glenn's numbers were very close to what Bigg Davis did in 2001 at the combine. Davis was at 370 there. I imagine if he had gotten himself down to where Glenn is, 345, their numbers might might have been just about identical.

Now from what I have heard Glenn is more disciplined and a harder worker then Davis

[28 Joker]

I think if DeCastro is gone, Glenn is a guy you have to consider at 14. I don't really know where the Cowboys would rank Glenn vs. Fitzpatrick, Jenkins, Ingram, and Upshaw however.

Who else would seriously be in the conversation at 14?

I'm assuming the top 5-6 blue chip guys are already gone (the top 2 QBs, Kalil, etc.) and we don't take a WR or RB at 14.

I agree with you on Glenn. If DeCastro goes before Dallas picks and if Dallas passes on Glenn, Kelechi Osemele is shooting up boards, too. Osemele could be long gone by 45. That is my big concern in this entire draft.

I'll be pretty sick if Dallas doesn't get one of the DeCastro, Glenn, and Osemele trio.

I'd say Dallas will really have Coples and Brockers rated very high, but they will be long gone by pick 14. Ingram and Upshaw are probably in that mix, too. I'd say one of them is probably gone by pick 14 and perhaps both. Kirkpatrick and Janoris Jenkins are lurking, too.

I think the guards will probably drop some, and those defensive players will rise into the top 10 and 15. However, when DeCastro goes, I think Glenn will not be far behind in the top 20. I think Osemele could ride that wave and reallly shoot up, too. Teams need offensive linemen.

[Woods]

I agree with you on Glenn. If DeCastro goes before Dallas picks and if Dallas passes on Glenn, Kelechi Osemele is shooting up boards, too. Osemele could be long gone by 45. That is my big concern in this entire draft.

I'll be pretty sick if Dallas doesn't get one of the DeCastro, Glenn, and Osemele trio.

I'd say Dallas will really have Coples and Brockers rated very high, but they will be long gone by pick 14. Ingram and Upshaw are probably in that mix, too. I'd say one of them is probably gone by pick 14 and perhaps both. Kirkpatrick and Janoris Jenkins are lurking, too.

I think the guards will probably drop some, and those defensive players will rise into the top 10 and 15. However, when DeCastro goes, I think Glenn will not be far behind in the top 20. I think Osemele could ride that wave and reallly shoot up, too. Teams need offensive linemen.

OK, assuming no trade down, I think the realistic list of players for the Cowboys at 14 include

DeCastro
Glenn
D Still
Fitzpatrick
J Jenkins
Ingram
Upshaw
Perry? Maybe worth the 14th slot. Not really sure.

As an outside
Brockers, but I think he'll be gone.

I think if we pick up a CB in FA, which imo is likely, then I think we either go OG or pass rusher. It seems we would have interest in Ingram and Upshaw.

So, if DeCastro is gone and no trade down, between Glenn, Still on the DL, Ingram, Upshaw, and Perry, who do you take?

For me, it would be a tough decision between Glenn and Ingram.

[28 Joker]

OK, assuming no trade down, I think the realistic list of players for the Cowboys at 14 include

DeCastro
Glenn
D Still
Fitzpatrick
J Jenkins
Ingram
Upshaw
Perry? Maybe worth the 14th slot. Not really sure.

As an outside
Brockers, but I think he'll be gone.

I think if we pick up a CB in FA, which imo is likely, then I think we either go OG or pass rusher. It seems we would have interest in Ingram and Upshaw.

So, if DeCastro is gone and no trade down, between Glenn, Still on the DL, Ingram, Upshaw, and Perry, who do you take?

For me, it would be a tough decision between Glenn and Ingram.

I always forget about Devon Still. Imo, I think Coples and Brockers would be the only two defensive linemen that Dallas would take at 14. Again, those guys will be gone, I think. That is just my opinion.

The Cowboys have been pretty defensive draft oriented and draft happy, so I could see some of those defensive guys being over-rated some by Dallas. That is where Garrett has to put his foot down and say, we are taking the offensive player.

I'd take Cordy Glenn and wouldn't hesitate. There are only so many people on the planet like Glenn and Osemele.

If Kirkpatrick doesn't run well, he could be in play at 14. If he runs well and does the shuttle well and looks good in drills, he is probably gone by 14. Then, you still have Janoris Jenkins lurking. I think CB is still a real possibility at 14.

I don't care what is "coming out" about Janoris Jenkins; he probably has the most impressive tape of any CB in this draft. Plus, he has slot value, and Victor Cruz lives in the slot. The Eagles wouldn't hesitate to draft one of those blazing Arkansas WRs, either. Plus, Jackson and Macklin are already in Philadelphia. The Redskins have some speed at WR (Armstrong).

In fact, Dallas should try to draft one of the fast Arkansas WRs, imo.

[Deep_Freeze]

I think you are confusing straightline speed with agility. In the short shuttle DeCastro posted 4.5, Glenn 5. In the 3 cone, DeCastro posted 7.3, Glenn 8.1. Those are clearer indicators of agility, not to mention mirroring drills and such that DeCastro clearly was better. DeCastro jumped 6 inches taller, 5 inches further which shows more explosivity. Glenn has longer arms better suited for offensive tackles but not a factor at guard. Either would make a great addition to the Cowboys based upon their play in college, not due to combine results that only validated their play.

Yeah, in my original post about this subject, I didn't have the benefit of all the numbers yet since my post was 4 hours before your reply. For his size though, Glenn still did reasonably well, and its really not that far of a stretch to say that he performed alot better than most thought he would.

I always forget about Devon Still. Imo, I think Coples and Brockers would be the only two defensive linemen that Dallas would take at 14. Again, those guys will be gone, I think. That is just my opinion.

The Cowboys have been pretty defensive draft oriented and draft happy, so I could see some of those defensive guys being over-rated some by Dallas. That is where Garrett has to put his foot down and say, we are taking the offensive player.

I'd take Cordy Glenn and wouldn't hesitate. There are only so many people on the planet like Glenn and Osemele.

If Kirkpatrick doesn't run well, he could be in play at 14. If he runs well and does the shuttle well and looks good in drills, he is probably gone by 14. Then, you still have Janoris Jenkins lurking. I think CB is still a real possibility at 14.

I don't care what is "coming out" about Janoris Jenkins; he probably has the most impressive tape of any CB in this draft. Plus, he has slot value, and Victor Cruz lives in the slot. The Eagles wouldn't hesitate to draft one of those blazing Arkansas WRs, either. Plus, Jackson and Macklin are already in Philadelphia. The Redskins have some speed at WR (Armstrong).

In fact, Dallas should try to draft one of the fast Arkansas WRs, imo.

I just hope that we can fill some real holes in free agency, then we can go BPA come draft time. Noway does anyone go into a draft one player or bust, or they might end up very disappointed unless they are picking in the top 5 already.

I figure there are alot more players in play for the Cowboys at #14 than some people think. As the combine goes on, there are several players who could force themselves in our thinking, including pass rushers and even CBs.

Good point about the speed at WR, and we could use one with that kind of field stretching speed. Our WRs have size, but not any real burners anywhere on the field. Would be nice to get one, and the Arkansas WRs do fit that bill, just have to wait and see how they perform this weekend.

[casmith07]

I always forget about Devon Still. Imo, I think Coples and Brockers would be the only two defensive linemen that Dallas would take at 14. Again, those guys will be gone, I think. That is just my opinion.

The Cowboys have been pretty defensive draft oriented and draft happy, so I could see some of those defensive guys being over-rated some by Dallas. That is where Garrett has to put his foot down and say, we are taking the offensive player.

I'd take Cordy Glenn and wouldn't hesitate. There are only so many people on the planet like Glenn and Osemele.

If Kirkpatrick doesn't run well, he could be in play at 14. If he runs well and does the shuttle well and looks good in drills, he is probably gone by 14. Then, you still have Janoris Jenkins lurking. I think CB is still a real possibility at 14.

I don't care what is "coming out" about Janoris Jenkins; he probably has the most impressive tape of any CB in this draft. Plus, he has slot value, and Victor Cruz lives in the slot. The Eagles wouldn't hesitate to draft one of those blazing Arkansas WRs, either. Plus, Jackson and Macklin are already in Philadelphia. The Redskins have some speed at WR (Armstrong).

In fact, Dallas should try to draft one of the fast Arkansas WRs, imo.

If DeCastro is gone by 14 (might not be after Glenn's combine numbers) I would take Glenn at 14 and not hesitate. He's a beast and a physical specimen.

[casmith07]

Exactly.

I was just watching a highlight of DeMarco Murray the other day and was shaking my head watching Costa whiff on block in the second level. That same defender ended up making the tackle on Murray. Gurode struggled at this too, especially during his last years in big D.

Gurode's legs were just shot. He looked fat this past preseason, too.

[realtick]

Lol, are folks really getting excited about a OL running a forty?

Is that what we're doing here

Bruce Campbell y'all...

[Flyo87]

Lol, are folks really getting excited about a OL running a forty?

Is that what we're doing here

Bruce Campbell y'all...

Lets not act like this isnt a guy played well on tape. 1st team all sec lineman at LT playing against the best athletes in the country and has already dominated at guard. The gap is definitely closer than people think and if I were to compare him to a prospect it'd Carl Nicks who also played LT in college and dominated at the senior bowl. If Nicks didnt have character issues he would've gone much higher. As much as I love Decastro who are the top dlineman he's gone against in his career? Its a valid questions since we didnt get to see him in the senior bowl.

[realtick]

Lets not act like this isnt a guy played well on tape. 1st team all sec lineman at LT playing against the best athletes in the country and has already dominated at guard. The gap is definitely closer than people think and if I were to compare him to a prospect it'd Carl Nicks who also played LT in college and dominated at the senior bowl. If Nicks didnt have character issues he would've gone much higher. As much as I love Decastro who are the top dlineman he's gone against in his career? Its a valid questions since we didnt get to see him in the senior bowl.

I like Glenn a lot, but I'm not going to get excited about him over his ability to run relatively fast in a straight line. In regards to DeCastro, Tyron Smith wasn't exactly battling 1st round quality DEs week-in week-out in the PAC-10/12. What matters is if he was consistently dominating the competition placed in front of him; his demonstrated ability and individual talent.

I've got no issues if we end up with Glenn in the end, but in a player-to-player comparison, I think DeCastro is the better all-around OG.

[dallasfaniac]

Yeah, in my original post about this subject, I didn't have the benefit of all the numbers yet since my post was 4 hours before your reply.

So in your original post, you said that DeCastro was supposed to test better in agility drills but didn't, because......the drills hadn't happened yet? Gotcha.

[Hoofbite]

Were there people with legitimate concerns about a OL speed?

[silverbear]

I agree with you on Glenn. If DeCastro goes before Dallas picks and if Dallas passes on Glenn, Kelechi Osemele is shooting up boards, too. Osemele could be long gone by 45. That is my big concern in this entire draft.

I'll be pretty sick if Dallas doesn't get one of the DeCastro, Glenn, and Osemele trio.

I'd say Dallas will really have Coples and Brockers rated very high, but they will be long gone by pick 14. Ingram and Upshaw are probably in that mix, too. I'd say one of them is probably gone by pick 14 and perhaps both. Kirkpatrick and Janoris Jenkins are lurking, too.

I think the guards will probably drop some, and those defensive players will rise into the top 10 and 15. However, when DeCastro goes, I think Glenn will not be far behind in the top 20. I think Osemele could ride that wave and reallly shoot up, too. Teams need offensive linemen.

I pretty much agree with this... the way I see it, the Boys should be thinking OL early, particularly interior OL (all they really need at OT is depth, with Free and Smith already pencilled in as the starters)...

So with that in mind, I'd be looking at DeCastro or Glenn in the first... if the Boys opted to go another direction (defense) in the first, then Kelechi Osmele, Amini Silatolu, Brandon Washington and Kevin Zeitler come into play, perhaps even Brandon Brooks... however, the talent level drops off precipitously after that, so if you want a good G from this draft, you'd better draft one early...

That said, later in the draft you might want to look at Rishaw Johnson (who may have raised his draft stock to the 5th round range with his performance at the combine), Ryan Miller from Colorado in the 5th or 6th, perhaps Joe Looney from Wake Forest in the 7th...