Griffin III - 4.38

[Risen Star]

He ran an unofficial 4.41 and 4.38 40 this morning. If that 4.38 holds up it will be the fastest ever for a QB.

[Bluestang]

Wow that is fast...LOL at Nick Foles 5.15.

[SDogo]

The all shorts race is on............I will say though, Blake even looks fast in Pads.

[MichaelWinicki]

What did Vick run?

[MichaelWinicki]

Wow that is fast...LOL at Nick Foles 5.15.

Nick Foles... Ugh.

[Bluestang]

Nick Foles... Ugh.


Isn't that Hos' pet cat?

[realtick]

Wow, I'm a bit shocked (re: Griffin). I thought he'd run a 4.6 or something.

[Deep_Freeze]

What did Vick run?

He ran a 4.33 which is faster than RG3, so Vick actually would still hold the record.

Not surprised by RG3 at all, he was a track guy before football.

[MichaelWinicki]

Isn't that Hos' pet cat?

Yes he is.

Hos usually has a good eye for talent, but the homer in him has caused a slight miss on this guy.

[Hostile]

Yes he is.

Hos usually has a good eye for talent, but the homer in him has caused a slight miss on this guy.
Yes, I do tend to forget about track stars at QB despite their incredible success in the NFL, and tend to focus on passing ability despite its record of failure in the NFL.

Foles career...66.9% career completion percentage, 67 TDs, 33 INTs, over 10,000 yards passing.

[MichaelWinicki]

Yes, I do tend to forget about track stars at QB despite their incredible success in the NFL, and tend to focus on passing ability despite its record of failure in the NFL.

Foles career...66.9% career completion percentage, 67 TDs, 33 INTs, over 10,000 yards passing.

No question the guy has very good accuracy.

The TD to INT ratio isn't glowing.

And his YPA is low compared to his excellent completion percentage which could indicate a lot of check-downs.

But the lack of mobility is a deal-breaker for me.

[Muhast]

He ran a 4.33 which is faster than RG3, so Vick actually would still hold the record.

Not surprised by RG3 at all, he was a track guy before football.

Vick didn't run at the combine, so a 4.38 from griffin would be the record. Just curious, where did you find the 4.33 number? A quick Google search said that vick ran a 4.36 at the Falcons minicamp as a rookie. That was the only time I saw

[supercowboy8]

What did Vick run?

According to ESPN Michael Vick ran a 4.36 in rookie mini camp following the 2001 NFL draft. That year during the 2001 NFL Combine Michael elected to opt out of the field testing portion.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_fast_did_Michael_Vick_run_in_the_40_yard_dash# ixzz1nVIVsMWH

[SkinsandTerps]

Vick supposedly ran sub 4.3 at the VT pro day iirc.

[Deep_Freeze]

Vick didn't run at the combine, so a 4.38 from griffin would be the record. Just curious, where did you find the 4.33 number? A quick Google search said that vick ran a 4.36 at the Falcons minicamp as a rookie. That was the only time I saw

According to ESPN Michael Vick ran a 4.36 in rookie mini camp following the 2001 NFL draft. That year during the 2001 NFL Combine Michael elected to opt out of the field testing portion.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_fast_did_Michael_Vick_run_in_the_40_yard_dash# ixzz1nVIVsMWH

They quoted it on NFL network about a half hour ago, and said RG3 was second to him. Now I do agree with you, I didn't think he ran at the combine, but NFLN did quote the number and I don't know their source.

It is interesting in that posted link it does say 4.33 at the combine underneath the 4.36 at rookie camp.

[Hostile]

No question the guy has very good accuracy.

The TD to INT ratio isn't glowing.

And his YPA is low compared to his excellent completion percentage which could indicate a lot of check-downs.

But the lack of mobility is a deal-breaker for me.So you'd pass on Dan Marino then?

57.7 completion percentage, 74 TDs, 64 INTs, and 7905 passing yards in his college career. Less mobility than Foles.

[Bluestang]

Mobility is over rated...just look at Eli Manning.

[Hostile]

Mobility is over rated...just look at Eli Manning.Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning...

[Muhast]

They quoted it on NFL network about a half hour ago, and said RG3 was second to him. Now I do agree with you, I didn't think he ran at the combine, but NFLN did quote the number and I don't know their source.

It is interesting in that posted link it does say 4.33 at the combine underneath the 4.36 at rookie camp.

Hmm, I know for a fact vick didn't run at the combine, but I couldn't find any of his proday numbers. I wouldn't doubt that vick ran a 4.3 something but I was just curious what he actually runs.

[Bluestang]

Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning...


As in Eli Manning is not very mobile yet he has 2 SB rings.

[Hostile]

As in Eli Manning is not very mobile yet he has 2 SB rings.They weren't mobile either. Their teams were contenders almost every year.

[Fla Cowpoke]

I could run a 4.3 at the Virginia Tech track

[Cythim]

So you'd pass on Dan Marino then?

57.7 completion percentage, 74 TDs, 64 INTs, and 7905 passing yards in his college career. Less mobility than Foles.

So Foles is now Dan Marino because of a stat sheet? :laugh2:

[Bluestang]

Tehy weren't mobile either. Their teams were contenders almost every year.


Ah ok I thought you were saying the opposite, anyways I actually like RG3 because of his parents background. A military man myself I know he is a well rounded kid and will be a star in the NFL.

Also some people seemed a little surprised about RG3s 40 but he was a track star so he knows how to properly start off and run a 40 moreso than the average football player.

[Hostile]

So Foles is now Dan Marino because of a stat sheet? :laugh2:I said he was Dan Marino II?

Does the mention of a name mean you have to assume a comparison? How sad if true.

[Hostile]

Ah ok I thought you were saying the opposite, anyways I actually like RG3 because of his parents background. A military man myself I know he is a well rounded kid and will be a star in the NFL.

Also some people seemed a little surprised about RG3s 40 but he was a track star so he knows how to properly start off and run a 40 moreso than the average football player.My comments are nothing against Griffin. In fact, Dawgs0916 knows RGIII personally and can tell you that I have liked him from the word go. Had he not had a meteoric rise I would want him in this draft.

[Cythim]

I said he was Dan Marino II?

Does the mention of a name mean you have to assume a comparison? How sad if true.

"Less mobility than Foles" is a comparison. There is no assumption on my part.

[Muhast]

I still don't understand why they don't do these drills in pads. In what game scenario is Griffin ever going to elude a pass rusher, while scrambling around in tights and no pads?

[TheCount]

I still don't understand why they don't do these drills in pads. In what game scenario is Griffin ever going to elude a pass rusher, while scrambling around in tights and no pads?

They've all played tons of games in pads. Evaluators that need to see them do the broad jump in pads need to get off their lazy butts and watch some tape.

Plus then you gotta start policing pads, because you know they will all look for an edge.

[Hostile]

"Less mobility than Foles" is a comparison. There is no assumption on my part.No, it was a response to his commentary on stats.

Sad.

[Cythim]

No, it was a response to his commentary on stats.

Sad.

I thought this was a forum that is free of personal attack. Are you going to continue calling me sad because of your comparison of Foles and Marino?

[Bluestang]

I still don't understand why they don't do these drills in pads. In what game scenario is Griffin ever going to elude a pass rusher, while scrambling around in tights and no pads?


The combine workouts is mainly geared for the scouts to confirm or intrigue their thoughts on players based on what they have seen in game film. The workouts are just a way they can measure "football attributes" to distinguish one player from the next to help the scouting/drafting process. The interviews is what the combine is really about. Most coaches and scouts are just going through their boards and doing their due diligence to find out as much as possible so they can arrange their boards accordingly.

[MichaelWinicki]

So you'd pass on Dan Marino then?

57.7 completion percentage, 74 TDs, 64 INTs, and 7905 passing yards in his college career. Less mobility than Foles.

My god Hos... I was going to Pitt when Marino did. LOL!

[Hostile]

My god Hos... I was going to Pitt when Marino did. LOL!So, unrelated to this discussion then I have to ask, do you miss them being an independent?

[Hostile]

I thought this was a forum that is free of personal attack. Are you going to continue calling me sad because of your comparison of Foles and Marino?Sad is an attack?

Sad.

[casmith07]

All of this stuff is misplaced, though, because Robert Griffin can actually throw the ball, too. Over 10,000 yards passing, 78 TDs to only 17 INTs in four years.

Just because dude can run doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden dump on him. He's going to be a very good QB.

[SkinsHokieFan]

All of this stuff is misplaced, though, because Robert Griffin can actually throw the ball, too. Over 10,000 yards passing, 78 TDs to only 17 INTs in four years.

Just because dude can run doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden dump on him. He's going to be a very good QB.

And a perfect fit in a ZBS who uses the boot leg quite often

[Hostile]

All of this stuff is misplaced, though, because Robert Griffin can actually throw the ball, too. Over 10,000 yards passing, 78 TDs to only 17 INTs in four years.

Just because dude can run doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden dump on him. He's going to be a very good QB.Yeah, not sure how it went from RGIIIs incredible 40 time to Hos likes Foles as an indictment.

[casmith07]

Yeah, not sure how it went from RGIIIs incredible 40 time to Hos likes Foles as an indictment.

It went from...

RGIII's 40 time -> Hos likes Foles -> Therefore, RGIII sucks.

[Deep_Freeze]

Hmm, I know for a fact vick didn't run at the combine, but I couldn't find any of his proday numbers. I wouldn't doubt that vick ran a 4.3 something but I was just curious what he actually runs.

Yeah, NFLN has mentioned the 4.33 twice and they say he ran it at the combine, plus links say it too. But I don't remember him running in the combine either.

Who knows.

[MichaelWinicki]

So, unrelated to this discussion then I have to ask, do you miss them being an independent?

Actually I do.

I also miss them not being very relevant when it comes to fielding competitive teams the last couple of decades.

They keep trying with different coaches, but they just aren't recruiting well as their neighbors from mid-state.

[Hostile]

It went from...

RGIII's 40 time -> Hos likes Foles -> Therefore, RGIII sucks.I never intimated that. I like the kid very much. I pray he doesn't end up in Washington.

[Hostile]

Actually I do.

I also miss them not being very relevant when it comes to fielding competitive teams the last couple of decades.

They keep trying with different coaches, but they just aren't recruiting well as their neighbors from mid-state.Thanks.

[Deep_Freeze]

I never intimated that. I like the kid very much. I pray he doesn't end up in Washington.

Well I've definitely been hoping he doesn't end up a Skin.

That would suck, course I don't know if they got Peyton would be any better.

[casmith07]

I never intimated that. I like the kid very much. I pray he doesn't end up in Washington.

You and me both. With Shanahan's bootleg passes and our seeming inability to sniff them out, we'd get murdered if we can't cover.

[casmith07]

Well I've definitely been hoping he doesn't end up a Skin.

That would suck, course I don't know if they got Peyton would be any better.

If they get Peyton I won't care. We can get to Peyton Manning - he'll stay in one place and can't really bootleg.

[Deep_Freeze]

If they get Peyton I won't care. We can get to Peyton Manning - he'll stay in one place and can't really bootleg.

Guess I would still be scared of Peyton if he is healthy. He makes WRs better, and can put a team on his back. He would be a concern.

[casmith07]

Guess I would still be scared of Peyton if he is healthy. He makes WRs better, and can put a team on his back. He would be a concern.

Oh he'd be a concern for sure, but we've beaten him handily before. I wouldn't be that worried.

[fanfromvirginia]

All of this stuff is misplaced, though, because Robert Griffin can actually throw the ball, too. Over 10,000 yards passing, 78 TDs to only 17 INTs in four years.

Just because dude can run doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden dump on him. He's going to be a very good QB.

Were it my choice, I would seriously be tempted to take Griffin over Luck. I know I'm in the minority on this.

[overseas]

I never intimated that. I like the kid very much. I pray he doesn't end up in Washington.

hope he does

then we can beat the tar out of him an shanny every year

that team is so cursed he will end up in Oak just like the last savior did

[cobra]

Wow, that's fast. As Vick has shown, that kind of speed should be good for at least 5 Lombardis.

[cobra]

Were it my choice, I would seriously be tempted to take Griffin over Luck. I know I'm in the minority on this.

Yes, yes you are.

(Assuming you are drafting for a NFL team running an NFL offense with the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you are instead drafting a track team, or to sell jerseys or have a QB with lots of endorsements deal, then you might be on to something.)

[Risen Star]

Yes, yes you are.

(Assuming you are drafting for a NFL team running an NFL offense with the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you are instead drafting a track team, or to sell jerseys or have a QB with lots of endorsements deal, then you might be on to something.)

I don't know if I would place Griffin on the same board with Luck.

He's a no brainer #1 overall pick.

[overseas]

All of this stuff is misplaced, though, because Robert Griffin can actually throw the ball, too. Over 10,000 yards passing, 78 TDs to only 17 INTs in four years.

Just because dude can run doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden dump on him. He's going to be a very good QB.

SYSTEM QB

Briles had Kolb - 12,000 yards - 85 tds

hows he working out ?

has he won anything ?

[SkinsHokieFan]

SYSTEM QB

Briles had Kolb - 12,000 yards - 85 tds

hows he working out ?

has he won anything ?

Tedford had Aaron Rodgers.

Prior to that he also had Joey Harrington.

For a very long time, the Tedford system was deemed a "bust" system because of the way he taught QB's to read the field.

Aaron Rodgers broke the mold.

What is key for a QB to succeed in the NFL? A stable organization and system that they can grow into. Its why Rodgers has been so successful and Alex Smith struggled so much, one has had a consistent system for his entire career, the other had 7 different OC's.

Does the skill set translate to the NFL? Luck's certainly does, better then anyone's has since Peyton.

RG3 also has a skill set which translates to the NFL. Good size, terrific arm, great deep ball accuracy and a passer first.

The running is just icing on the cake for both these guys. Although Luck is going to have to run a lot more because I am not afraid to say that his Stanford o-line will be better then the Colts o-line he has for the next 2 years

[Dmoore Esq]

I just hope he doesn't end up a Redskin because I don't want to root against the guy. Seems like a great kid. What's the most impressive thing about him is he has world class speed but he's not a running QB. At the college level, you could have had a successful offense just running the ball with him.

[overseas]

well I hope you get him Skins Hokie fan

and so Rg iii is not going to have to run with the Skins O lime - lol - by the time he gets to his third read he will want to run

so we can beat him up every twice ayear

gawd I hate all of you RG III SLOBER FEST dudes

I SAY GOOD DAY TO YOU

has he taken a snap in the NFL yet ?

[SkinsHokieFan]

well I hope you get him Skins Hokie fan

and so Rg iii is not going to have to run with the Skins O lime - lol - by the time he gets to his third read he will want to run

so we can beat him up every twice ayear

gawd I hate all of you RG III SLOBER FEST dudes

I SAY GOOD DAY TO YOU

has he taken a snap in the NFL yet ?

Has anyone taken a snap in the NFL yet?

Andrew Luck won't get 8 seconds to throw the ball next year.

People thought Cam newton was going to be a major bust

You can never predict, you just try and project based on skill set and how well they fit into your system.

[Hostile]

I firmly believe Cleveland ends up with him at the #2 spot.

[cobra]

RG3 also has a skill set which translates to the NFL. Good size, terrific arm, great deep ball accuracy and a passer first

Someone who runs a gimmick college spread offense does not translate into the NFL.

He doesn't have good size. He just avoided having terrible size. Strong arm and fast, yes. But it was a gimmick offense that caused his passing numbers. If you think his passing performance is elite, then you should want to draft Case Keenum because whatever you can point to as a passer production and skill set, Case can surpass Griffin.

I think Griffin deserves to be the second drafted QB. But what I can't stand is people acting like he in the same class as Luck or a better prospect than Luck because he ran a gimmick offense.

Any team drafting Griffin has to admit that he is being drafted as dual threat. There's no shame against admitting that. It's betting against history as far as success goes, but it is reasonable risk. What is silly is the attempt to argue that he is being drafted as a pure pocket passer when he never ran a pro offense.

I just hope he doesn't end up a Redskin because I don't want to root against the guy. Seems like a great kid.

I agree. I don't fear Griffin. He'll have some great individual performances, but over time he'll break his teams heart.

I just hope he doesn't because a Redskin because I like him and would hate for him to go to such a joke of a bottom-feeding franchise. And I'd feel bad laughing at him as he loses to us and most people as is typical.

[RS12]

I firmly believe Cleveland ends up with him at the #2 spot.

I agree, unless Danny boy does a Ricky Williams trade.

[Dmoore Esq]

I firmly believe Cleveland ends up with him at the #2 spot.

Living in Cleveland, and being forced to watch them on Sunday, I hope they sign Matt Flynn. I'd love for them to get Griffen, but Flynn probably gives you a better chance to win next season and you probably won't have to give up any picks for him.

[Deep_Freeze]

I firmly believe Cleveland ends up with him at the #2 spot.

Yeah, with 2 first rounders this year, the Browns have to be in the lead for him and it would be surprising if they don't end up with him.

He has alot of positives, so it would be hard for any team to avoid him if they need a QB. Any QB who had a choice between Baylor and Stanford like RG3 did should be respected not only cause of his speed, but the ability to process information quickly as a QB.

RG3's times are compared to Vick, but Baylor and Stanford would have called the police if Vick showed up on their campuses.

[Aliencowboy]

He ran an unofficial 4.41 and 4.38 40 this morning. If that 4.38 holds up it will be the fastest ever for a QB.


WOW!

Maybe he is right !

[Risen Star]

Yeah, with 2 first rounders this year, the Browns have to be in the lead for him and it would be surprising if they don't end up with him.

The Browns have more ammo, but the Redskins have more sack. It wouldn't shock me in the least if they put a package together than the Browns just don't want to beat.

[Aven8]

Anybody who can win the freaking Heisman trophy at Baylor of all places has to be good. Baylor and the game of football have never quite meshed.

If I were Cleveland I wouldn't even think about trading that pick, Colt sucks.

[SkinsandTerps]

Redskins can move to that spot and give up a ton for it in picks. I think they will.

Also, still get the smaller pieces they need to get the job done.

I think most teams would give a 1st and 3rd for an older Tom Brady right now.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Someone who runs a gimmick college spread offense does not translate into the NFL.

He doesn't have good size. He just avoided having terrible size. Strong arm and fast, yes. But it was a gimmick offense that caused his passing numbers. If you think his passing performance is elite, then you should want to draft Case Keenum because whatever you can point to as a passer production and skill set, Case can surpass Griffin.

I think Griffin deserves to be the second drafted QB. But what I can't stand is people acting like he in the same class as Luck or a better prospect than Luck because he ran a gimmick offense.

Any team drafting Griffin has to admit that he is being drafted as dual threat. There's no shame against admitting that. It's betting against history as far as success goes, but it is reasonable risk. What is silly is the attempt to argue that he is being drafted as a pure pocket passer when he never ran a pro offense.



What on earth are you arguing with me about? Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?

I feel the same way as you do, I would never take RG3 over Luck, I'd go Ricky Williams and get Luck if I am in charge.

Luck to me translates to a mobile Peyton Manning (he simply doesn't have the super gun of an arm to be John Elway)

RG3 looks and feels like Steve Young, a mobile dual threat who can run but is pass first and will take longer to hit his NFL stride. His best days as a passer won't be in year 1, 2 or 3. It'll be well beyond that.

Luck's issue, which I hate for him, is he is going to head to the 1989 version of the Dallas Cowboys, a team that is about to gut itself and have nothing but young players, changing systems completely, a rookie head coach, rookie GM, and unable to do much in FA this coming season. And they won't have a Hersel Walker trade to help them

RG3's issue will be how he adjusts to an NFL scheme. If he was white, we would be talking about how smart he is since he is a Baylor grad and has the option for law school. Sort of like how people were describing Sam Bradford as incredibly intelligent 2 years ago.

Both these kids I am excited about. Skill set wise, talent wise, moxie wise and character wise

[fanfromvirginia]

Yes, yes you are.

(Assuming you are drafting for a NFL team running an NFL offense with the goal of winning Super Bowls. If you are instead drafting a track team, or to sell jerseys or have a QB with lots of endorsements deal, then you might be on to something.)

I know, I know, Luck is great and a sure thing, the type of traditional NFL QB that brings with him success (and he's mobile enough), and all of that. I didn't say I *would* take RG3. I just said I would be tempted. I think he's more balanced than some of the athletic QBs who have come before him.

[newlander]

the dinks at NFL Network are slobbering all over Shanahan and conceding lil dan will get this kid. Jeebus I sure hope not for all our sake: physically he's a freak, but his interview with warner and mayock was superlative IMHO. OBVIOUSLY hope he ends up in the AFC..........

[lwehlers]

the browns need to go all in and trade there two ones and a second and a next years pick for griffin. the browns have been terrible for years this is there chance to get there team headed in the right direction.

[The30YardSlant]

He has an excellent chance of turning into a star QB in the NFL. That being said I still question his durability, or more accurately his ability to respond after taking a hit. He has a habit of going into a shell after a couple good licks.

[newlander]

go ahead and merge this with existing thread on RG3....my bad. I hope hostile and lwehlers are right and he ends up in Cleveland: sure as hell would make me sleep easier: I'll be physically ill if he ends up in DC:bang2:

[TheCoolFan]

My goodness...Luck and RGIII are too good...just too good :bow:

[batman36]

He has an excellent chance of turning into a star QB in the NFL. That being said I still question his durability, or more accurately his ability to respond after taking a hit. He has a habit of going into a shell after a couple good licks.

Oklahoma Sooner fan here. The Sooners hit him a number of times last season, and he kept responding. I wished that he would miss a play, or...eight! But it didn't happen. With eight seconds remaining, he threw the game winner. And this was after Frank Alexander and Ronnell Lewis had delivered good shots on him. Count me as one of the believers.

[jnday]

What on earth are you arguing with me about? Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?

I feel the same way as you do, I would never take RG3 over Luck, I'd go Ricky Williams and get Luck if I am in charge.

Luck to me translates to a mobile Peyton Manning (he simply doesn't have the super gun of an arm to be John Elway)

RG3 looks and feels like Steve Young, a mobile dual threat who can run but is pass first and will take longer to hit his NFL stride. His best days as a passer won't be in year 1, 2 or 3. It'll be well beyond that.

Luck's issue, which I hate for him, is he is going to head to the 1989 version of the Dallas Cowboys, a team that is about to gut itself and have nothing but young players, changing systems completely, a rookie head coach, rookie GM, and unable to do much in FA this coming season. And they won't have a Hersel Walker trade to help them

RG3's issue will be how he adjusts to an NFL scheme. If he was white, we would be talking about how smart he is since he is a Baylor grad and has the option for law school. Sort of like how people were describing Sam Bradford as incredibly intelligent 2 years ago.

Both these kids I am excited about. Skill set wise, talent wise, moxie wise and character wise
Was there any reason to bring race into an otherwise good post ? I have not read a post that questioned how smart he is due to his skin color .

[Hostile]

Living in Cleveland, and being forced to watch them on Sunday, I hope they sign Matt Flynn. I'd love for them to get Griffen, but Flynn probably gives you a better chance to win next season and you probably won't have to give up any picks for him.I don't care about Cleveland winning. I care about Washington not getting a QB to build around.

[TheCount]

lol, and I felt like an idiot when I was saying I'd draft him with our 1st round pick a while back. Little did I know we'd be talking 2nd overall.

[Dawgs0916]

Its true. Hos always liked Robert, so I'm not really sure where all the hate is coming from.

Anyways, I'm beyond happy for him. I asked him yesterday what he was going to run and he said: "That's in God's hands. I prayed for a 4.2 but we'll see."

[Hoofbite]

I firmly believe Cleveland ends up with him at the #2 spot.

If everyone tells you he's a star in the making and someone else wants to give you the moon for him, you might have to ask yourself why you aren't as hot for him as everyone else.

Cleveland will screw it up. They'll trade for him following the age-old thought process that no player is worth turning down so much and then they'll spend the next decade wasting draft pick after draft pick trying to find a QB.

[casmith07]

Someone who runs a gimmick college spread offense does not translate into the NFL.

http://www.steelers-fan.com/images/Roethlisberger.jpg

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2011/12/drew-brees.jpg

[trickblue]

He ran a 4.33 which is faster than RG3, so Vick actually would still hold the record.

Not surprised by RG3 at all, he was a track guy before football.

The difference is that one is a real QB, the other is a fantastic athlete that plays QB...

It's not a hit on Vick, just fact...

[Hostile]

Its true. Hos always liked Robert, so I'm not really sure where all the hate is coming from.

Anyways, I'm beyond happy for him. I asked him yesterday what he was going to run and he said: "That's in God's hands. I prayed for a 4.2 but we'll see."Thanks for the backup WM.

[Bluestang]

Where is this thread headed?

[Deep_Freeze]

The difference is that one is a real QB, the other is a fantastic athlete that plays QB...

It's not a hit on Vick, just fact...

Yeah thats true, and btw that is a hit on Vick.....;)

[cowboy_ron]

I don't care about Cleveland winning. I care about Washington not getting a QB to build around.
If that happened it would be a 4 team battle every year

[Bluestang]

Someone who runs a gimmick college spread offense does not translate into the NFL.

He doesn't have good size. He just avoided having terrible size. Strong arm and fast, yes. But it was a gimmick offense that caused his passing numbers. If you think his passing performance is elite, then you should want to draft Case Keenum because whatever you can point to as a passer production and skill set, Case can surpass Griffin.

I think Griffin deserves to be the second drafted QB. But what I can't stand is people acting like he in the same class as Luck or a better prospect than Luck because he ran a gimmick offense.

Any team drafting Griffin has to admit that he is being drafted as dual threat. There's no shame against admitting that. It's betting against history as far as success goes, but it is reasonable risk. What is silly is the attempt to argue that he is being drafted as a pure pocket passer when he never ran a pro offense.



I agree. I don't fear Griffin. He'll have some great individual performances, but over time he'll break his teams heart.

I just hope he doesn't because a Redskin because I like him and would hate for him to go to such a joke of a bottom-feeding franchise. And I'd feel bad laughing at him as he loses to us and most people as is typical.


RG3's interview on NFLN following his workout had a few telling pieces about his transition to the NFL. He said that Baylor's offense was a spread offense up until his last year when they started using pro scheme concepts. They were using pro schemed play calls with a pro route tree and he would meet with QB coach, OC, and line coach to get the game plan developed. The one thing he said he needed to work on was his timing throws, which is my guess as to why he declined to throw at the combine.

I gather that RG3 already has a good knowledge of a pro style offense but needs to polish up his timing and footwork.

Don't kid yourself here, RG3 is a great prospect and needs time to develop but he has the potential to be an elite QB.

[JBond]

Mobility is over rated...just look at Eli Manning.

It is not over rated on this team. We have 1.5 of the needed players out of the 5 jobs available.

[Hoofbite]

What on earth are you arguing with me about? Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?

I feel the same way as you do, I would never take RG3 over Luck, I'd go Ricky Williams and get Luck if I am in charge.

Luck to me translates to a mobile Peyton Manning (he simply doesn't have the super gun of an arm to be John Elway)

RG3 looks and feels like Steve Young, a mobile dual threat who can run but is pass first and will take longer to hit his NFL stride. His best days as a passer won't be in year 1, 2 or 3. It'll be well beyond that.

Luck's issue, which I hate for him, is he is going to head to the 1989 version of the Dallas Cowboys, a team that is about to gut itself and have nothing but young players, changing systems completely, a rookie head coach, rookie GM, and unable to do much in FA this coming season. And they won't have a Hersel Walker trade to help them

RG3's issue will be how he adjusts to an NFL scheme. If he was white, we would be talking about how smart he is since he is a Baylor grad and has the option for law school. Sort of like how people were describing Sam Bradford as incredibly intelligent 2 years ago.

Both these kids I am excited about. Skill set wise, talent wise, moxie wise and character wise

I thought people were still talking about how smart he is?

Maybe that's not the overwhelming commentary because his pure athleticism overshadows it.

I've see numerous reports of his scholastic achievements.

I think ESPN had a Heisman promo-like video about him where that was one of the major talking points.

It's not like Luck is being fawned over right now for his scholasticism. Engineering major at Stanford, not exactly basket-weaving.

[Aikbach]

lol, and I felt like an idiot when I was saying I'd draft him with our 1st round pick a while back. Little did I know we'd be talking 2nd overall.
Hey i was a homer when i said he'd be a first round pick and Heisman candidate in the first month of the season, some of the people here dismissed him as 3rd round talent, a future defensive back...must've been reading Mack Brown's recruitment files.;)

[Chocolate Lab]

http://www.steelers-fan.com/images/Roethlisberger.jpg

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2011/12/drew-brees.jpg

Can't believe you didn't mention your boy Cam...

It's dumb to say that because you ran a spread offense in college you can't be a good NFL QB. It's not up to the QB what offense he runs. Andrew Luck would undoubtedly put up crazy numbers in a spread offense... If that happened, should he be marked down for it? Of course not.

[jobberone]

All of this stuff is misplaced, though, because Robert Griffin can actually throw the ball, too. Over 10,000 yards passing, 78 TDs to only 17 INTs in four years.

Just because dude can run doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden dump on him. He's going to be a very good QB.

He may turn out to be better than Luck.

[joseephuss]

Tony Romo ran a 5.0 forty time at the 2003 combine. People still consider him a good athlete.

RGIII's 40 time doesn't surprise me. Knew he was fast. Know he is smart. Know he has a good arm. What I don't know is just how good he will be in the NFL. My bet is he will be good, but there is always the possibility he will falter. I like what I see and wish him well.

I understand the criticism of RGIII being in a gimmick offense. Nowadays most every QB will have to go through that criticism. The gimmick offense is the more standard one run in college than the traditional pro-style offense. Same with high schools. It is less common for QBs to take a majority of their snaps from under center in today's game, so every QB will have to adjust their games once they reach the NFL. That is one reason to like Andrew Luck. He does take quite a few snaps under center.

[JonJon]

Wow...Zach Brown stumbles, still runs 4.45

[InmanRoshi]

It's not ground breaking to say that a QB's success depends on the situation he's in, but it will be particuarly true for RGIII transitioning from the spread. I think he's a great fit in Shanny's system in Washington, running those naked play action boots off the stretch run plays and throwing on the run. It's really not an overly complicated system with a lot of reads nor does it require pin point precision, and Griffin throws accurately on the move off of his back foot. No reason he can't be Jake Plummer with next level athleticism.

[cobra]

He may turn out to be better than Luck.

*cries*

Yes. He "may" turn out to be better. In the same sense that Brandon Weedon "may" turn out to be better. That is, "anything is possible."

The fact remains, given his experience and performance in an NFL, pro style offense--his experience calling plays and reading defenses--there is a reason why he is consistently called the best QB prospect since Manning/Elway/whomever. It's because when you are projecting players, you have to make educated guesses.

And with RG3, it's a question mark because he has no experience running an NFL/pro style offense, being under center, having to make multiple reads and audibles. You cannot make an educated guess with him because there is no data to rely upon. Sure, you can say he has the skill set to do it, but you have no objective evidence of it. So, you are going on pure potential.

Any GM, overwhelmed by a mere 40 time, that would take question mark/potential QB over the best QB prospect in a decade should lose their job.

[trickblue]

*cries*

Yes. He "may" turn out to be better. In the same sense that Brandon Weedon "may" turn out to be better. That is, "anything is possible."

The fact remains, given his experience and performance in an NFL, pro style offense--his experience calling plays and reading defenses--there is a reason why he is consistently called the best QB prospect since Manning/Elway/whomever. It's because when you are projecting players, you have to make educated guesses.

And with RG3, it's a question mark because he has no experience running an NFL/pro style offense, being under center, having to make multiple reads and audibles. You cannot make an educated guess with him because there is no data to rely upon. Sure, you can say he has the skill set to do it, but you have no objective evidence of it. So, you are going on pure potential.

Any GM, overwhelmed by a mere 40 time, that would take question mark/potential QB over the best QB prospect in a decade should lose their job.

I think RG3 will be a great QB at the pro level, but you hit the nail on the head. He has to adjust to being under center. He's very good at reading defenses, but it's different under center. I think he has the ability to do this as he a very intelligent kid. Luck is definitely the better "prospect" at this point. The reality is that they may both be busts.

Our good friends the Redskins once drafted a "Can't Miss" QB from Tennessee in Heath Schuler...

You just never know...

[cobra]

I think RG3 will be a great QB at the pro level, but you hit the nail on the head. He has to adjust to being under center. He's very good at reading defenses, but it's different under center. I think he has the ability to do this as he a very intelligent kid. Luck is definitely the better "prospect" at this point.

I basically agree. I think the guy will be good. I won't say he'll be great until I see him run an NFL offense. He certainly has the tools/disposition/intangibles to be great. He just hasn't shown it. Luck also has the tools/dispositions/intangibles to be great, but he has shown it. And that's the difference that makes Luck the better prospect.

[Chocolate Lab]

I've argued this with other people before, but I don't think the college offense a QB runs has any bearing on the NFL QB he'll eventually become. Will Luck be more prepared from day one? Probably. But with an investment like this you're looking at much longer term than that. And almost by definition, QBs in this position are going to a bad team, so it's years two, three, four that really matter. By then, the spread QB will be fully caught up.

Now maybe if the QB were some lumbering concrete-footed oaf, coming out from under center would be a concern. But that's not Griffin, obviously.

Actually, forget that above... This is the thread where we already talked about this very thing. Pretty funny scouting from some people. :laugh2:

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222548

[Staxxxx]

If anyone is interested on NFL.com have a video with an overlay of RGIII, Cam Newton, and Luck running the 40

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-griffin-iii-vs-andrew-luck-vs-cam-184126937.html

[InmanRoshi]

I can only speak as to what I know about Mike Leach's Air Raid offense, but he instructs his QBs to not throw to a particular WR but rather a certain open spot on the field. The WRs are supposed to read the coverage by the defense backs and adjust their routes accordingly to find the open spot in the field and be there when the QB delivers the ball. That's a different mentality for a QB than "This WR is your primary read and he's going to run a 15 yard dig route, and I want you to judge whether he got enough seperation on the route to throw him the ball or whether to move on to your secondary reads." In the spread offense, if you throw to a tightly covered WR and put the ball inbetween defenders you've probably made the wrong read. In the NFL it's almost mandatory that you throw to a tightly covered WR inbetween defenders.

[Hoofbite]

If anyone is interested on NFL.com have a video with an overlay of RGIII, Cam Newton, and Luck running the 40

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/robert-griffin-iii-vs-andrew-luck-vs-cam-184126937.html

Nice find.

I'm actually a little surprised at Luck's ability to keep up with Newton.

When you see them overlaid like that, it kind of puts into perspective just how little bit of a difference there is in a really good 40 time and a good 40 time.

I mean, Newton is one stride behind and Luck is 2 strides behind over the course of 40 yards? Not a grade difference considering the number of times when a player gets a breakaway like that are relatively few.

I said a while back that you have to put up an eye popping time in order to really impress someone and separate yourself or you have to put up a disgustingly slow Vontaze Burfict time in order to really sink yourself.

I wish they would put Chris Johnson's 4.24 in there just for the heck of it.

I know it wouldn't hold true but if RG3 is a stride ahead of Newton at 0.18 faster, I'd think Johnson would be a stride ahead of RG3, which puts him about 4-5 yards ahead of Luck at the end of it.

I think the most impressive part of the video is that all the guys had pretty good starts and times through 10 yards. At about 12 yards, RG3 gains an entire yard on the other two.

That's where his speed will come into play. Not 40 yards down the field but within the first 10-15 yards. He was out of arms reach at 13 yards. You might have a prayer at diving for his feet but likely not.

If Luck were chasing Newton and neither lost speed due to padding, Luck could have tackled him at any time during the 40. 0.1 seconds sounds like a lot when going from one number to the next but in a practical sense, I'm not sure it makes any difference at all.