Comparing Combine OLB/DE Tweeners to Spencer

[robert70x7]

I'm going to try and limit this to players that we have talked about and that might be able to replace Spencer. I compared the combine numbers and here are the rankings. The overall ranking only includes players that competed in every exercise. I'll post the overall rankings first because the rest are kind of lengthy. Individual events are below.

Overall (Not including Hightower, Upshaw, Bequette, Johnson, Curry)

Nick Perry (23)
Melvin Ingram (26)
Shea McClellin (31)
Olivier Vernon (32)
Anthony Spencer (33)
Whitney Mercilus (34)
Jonathan Massaquoi (44)
Bench Press (Curry, Johnson, Bequette, Hightower did not press)

Nick Perry (35)
Olivier Vernon (31)
Anthony Spencer (30)
Melvin Ingram (28)
Whitney Mercilus (27)
Courtney Upshaw (22)
Jonathan Massaquoi (20)
Shea McClellin (19)40 Yard Dash

Shea McClellin (4.63)
Nick Perry (4.64)
Dont'a Hightower (4.68)
Whitney Mercilus (4.68)
Anthony Spencer (4.7)
Courtney Upshaw (4.76)
Melvin Ingram (4.79)
Olivier Vernon (4.8)
Cam Johnson (4.81)
Jake Bequette (4.82)
Jonathan Massaquoi (4.89)
Vinny Curry (4.98)Vertical Jump (Upshaw did not jump)

Nick Perry (38.5)
Cam Johnson (35)
Melvin Ingram (34.5)
Olivier Vernon (34.5)
Jake Bequette (34)
Jonathan Massaquoi (33.5)
Anthony Spencer (32.5)
Dont'a Hightower (32)
Whitney Mercilus (32)
Vinny Curry (32)
Shea McClellin (31.5)Broad Jump (Upshaw and Hightower did not jump)

Nick Perry (10.33)
Olivier Vernon (10.17)
Jonathan Massaquoi (10)
Whitney Mercilus (9.83)
Shea McClellin (9.83)
Jake Bequette (9.42)
Anthony Spencer (9.33)
Vinny Curry (9.17)
Melvin Ingram (9.08)
Cam Johnson (8.75)Shuttle (Upshaw and Hightower did not compete)

Jake Bequette (4.07)
Melvin Ingram (4.18)
Shea McClellin (4.33)
Cam Johnson (4.38)
Vinny Curry (4.4)
Anthony Spencer (4.43)
Olivier Vernon (4.5)
Jonathan Massaquoi (4.53)
Whitney Mercilus (4.53)
Nick Perry (4.66)3-Cone (Upshaw and Hightower did not compete)

Melvin Ingram (6.83)
Jake Bequette (6.9)
Vinny Curry (6.9)
Shea McClellin (7.07)
Anthony Spencer (7.14)
Whitney Mercilus (7.17)
Cam Johnson (7.2)
Nick Perry (7.25)
Jonathan Massaquoi (7.38)
Olivier Vernon (7.39)

[robert70x7]

Agility/Acceleration (Shuttle & 3-Cone)

Ingram (2,1)
Bequette (1,2)
McClellin (3,4)
Curry (5,2)
Spencer (6,5)
Johnson (4,7)
Mercilus (8,6)
Vernon (7,10)
Massaquoi (8,9)
Perry (10,8)Power (Vertical & Broad)

Perry (1,1)
Vernon (3,2)
Massaquoi (6,3)
Bequette (5,6)
Ingram (3,9)
Johnson (2,10)
Mercilus (8,4)
Spencer (7,7)
McLellin (11,4)
Curry (8,8)Speed (40 & Shuttle)

McLellin (1,3)
Ingram (7,2)
Bequette (10,1)
Mercilus (3,8)
Spencer (5,6)
Perry (2,10)
Johnson (9,4)
Vernon (8,7)
Curry (12,5)
Massaquoi (11,8)

[BAT]

Interesting. Does this mean that Spencer is top 5, or middle of the pack? And curious why Bruce Irvin's numbers were not included.

[dallasfaniac]

Plug Jerry Hughes combine numbers in there.......

Edit:

Bench - 26
40 - 4.65
Vertical - 34.5
Broad - 9'-10"
Shuttle - 4.15
3 Cone - 6.99

Hughes bested Spencer in everything but bench, yet has a single sack in 2 years and has only been activated a handfull of games.

[burmafrd]

Plug Jerry Hughes combine numbers in there.......

Edit:

Bench - 26
40 - 4.65
Vertical - 34.5
Broad - 9'-10"
Shuttle - 4.15
3 Cone - 6.99

Hughes bested Spencer in everything but bench, yet has a single sack in 2 years and has only been activated a handfull of games.


that is why the combine should never be the deciding factor on a player. Game film MUST be.

[jblaze2004]

that is why the combine should never be the deciding factor on a player. Game film MUST be.

yeah the combine can not measure heart, want to or on the field learn your craft work ethic. Spencer has the physical tools but he doesn't have the want to or desire. And that is why i want him replaced. Instead of going all out he just like's to cruise on by. We need OLB's that are hungry and want to smash the opposing team QB like the do ours.

[Gaede]

Man, Bequette and McClellin tore it up. Very surprised.

[cowboysooner]

Jerry Hughes had good game film. He probably will be a bust, but it also would not surprise me if he ended up like Jason Babin- a good passrusher for his second team. He is behind Freeney and Mathis and can't play SAM.

That draft pick along with Anthony Gonzalez and a bunch of others is a big reason why the Polians are no longer repping the "horseshoe".

[jblaze2004]

Jerry Hughes had good game film. He probably will be a bust, but it also would not surprise me if he ended up like Jason Babin- a good passrusher for his second team. He is behind Freeney and Mathis and can't play SAM.

That draft pick along with Anthony Gonzalez and a bunch of others is a big reason why the Polians are no longer repping the "horseshoe".

hughes might be starting next year, isn't mathis a FA?

or he might can be had in a trade because of the new coaching staff. Would you trade felix for hughes and somebody else or late round draft pick?

[robert70x7]

Interesting. Does this mean that Spencer is top 5, or middle of the pack? And curious why Bruce Irvin's numbers were not included.

I don't consider him a every down 3-4 olb

[RS12]

Give me a guy that averages 10 sacks a year, not 4.

[jterrell]

Jerry Hughes had good game film. He probably will be a bust, but it also would not surprise me if he ended up like Jason Babin- a good passrusher for his second team. He is behind Freeney and Mathis and can't play SAM.

That draft pick along with Anthony Gonzalez and a bunch of others is a big reason why the Polians are no longer repping the "horseshoe".

Yup. Every scouting profile around had Hughes as a pure 3-4 OLB and yet he was drafted by the Colts as a 4-3 Nickel pass rushing end who was best rushing from a standing position. Plenty of articles suggesting he simply never matched their scheme at all.

Hughes could be a steal for a 3-4 team looking for a back up OLB soon.
OR he could develop as the Colts lose Mathis and have a starting spot wide open.

Ahmad Brooks looked like a terrible draft pick til about last week and now he has a 20 million dollar check in his account. Some guys are just playing out of position or in a poor scheme for their skillset.
Hughes was a high school running back.... Asking him to play 4-3 DE seems harsh.

[Eskimo]

Spencer is a good football player.

The problem is that he is not a good pass rusher and for 3-4 DEs to become catalytic you need to be able to send good pass rushers from different positions. Our defense was better in 2006-9 when we had first Ware and Ellis as the QB hunters and then Ware/Ratliff. Now the last two years Ratliff has really fallen off (another great needless extension by our GM) we only have Ware as an above average pass rusher out there.

I would be okay with re-signing Spencer if the goal were to find a complementary pass rusher at ILB or DE but not a premium price. Anything up to $6M/yr is okay but anything above that is premium money for a non-premium player.

I really would prefer just to use the FA dollars we have targeted to Spencer at another position - maybe CB, maybe OL, maybe DE - depending on who is available. Then I would try to draft a proper complementary player to Ware to play SOLB and go QB hunting in the nickel. I'd probably be fine with Bequette, McClellin, Ingram or Hightower. I think there is some value at the top of the 2nd round if we can trade down there for the first. We should still be able to get a good OG prospect in this trade down scenario if we can land a late 2nd rounder.

The draft would then look something like:

late first: OLB
mid-second: CB/OG
late second: OG/CB
third: BPA

[casmith07]

Spencer's 40-time for a man his size is pretty darn fast.

[RoyTheHammer]

Give me a guy that averages 10 sacks a year, not 4.

:laugh2:

[dallasfaniac]

Hughes could be a steal for a 3-4 team looking for a back up OLB soon.

I thought he was going to be a beast and you're right that he was projected as a 3-4 OLB. However, Indi tried to trade him last year and they couldn't even get an Aaron Curry type of trade.

[BAT]

I don't consider him a every down 3-4 olb

Not even if he packs on 10 lbs? At 253, does he qualify as a everydown 3-4 OLB in your eyes?

It's not like 10, or even 15 lbs, is that impossible to add. Bruce Irvin will be a playmaker as a pass rusher.

[robert70x7]

Not even if he packs on 10 lbs? At 253, does he qualify as a everydown 3-4 OLB in your eyes?

It's not like 10, or even 15 lbs, is that impossible to add. Bruce Irvin will be a playmaker as a pass rusher.

His frame and style of play would not hold up in a 3-4 every down.

[BAT]

His frame and style of play would not hold up in a 3-4 every down.

He is only 6 lbs less and 1 inch shorter than Ware when he was drafted. These kind of overgeneralizations and absolutes always confound me.

There have been OLBs in the past, and present, with similar dimensions. Clay Matthews, Von Miller, Derrick Brooks, etc.

Bruce Irvin is more likely drafted to be a 3-4 OLB, than a 4-3 DE.

[burmafrd]

In the NFL today rush defense is no longer as important as a Pass Rush. We need to realize that we might have to give some on rush D to generate nmore Pass Rush.

[Joe Rod]

In the NFL today rush defense is no longer as important as a Pass Rush. We need to realize that we might have to give some on rush D to generate nmore Pass Rush.

I personally would still look toward upgrading the D-line over Spencer, but if they let him go I would still say Ingram is one heck of a replacement. The guy plays with one heck of a motor.

[TheCount]

I personally would still look toward upgrading the D-line over Spencer, but if they let him go I would still say Ingram is one heck of a replacement. The guy plays with one heck of a motor.

I think Ibgram may very well be the first DE taken at this point.

[robert70x7]

He is only 6 lbs less and 1 inch shorter than Ware when he was drafted. These kind of overgeneralizations and absolutes always confound me.

There have been OLBs in the past, and present, with similar dimensions. Clay Matthews, Von Miller, Derrick Brooks, etc.

Bruce Irvin is more likely drafted to be a 3-4 OLB, than a 4-3 DE.

But he is not an every down 3-4 OLB. I don't buy it. He isn't strong enough and would get engulfed by offensive lineman. We don't need another Ware, we already have one. We need complimentary pieces that, and a pass rush that can be generated from our defensive line that will make or SOLB that much better.

All he did was rush the passer, was situational and was never asked to play against the run or in zone coverage against the pass. We don't need a sack specialist, we need a complete 3-4 SOLB or two pieces that can make up one. If we draft Irvin in the 3rd for passing situations only, I'm fine with that. I think he has potential to develop into something else other than a pass rusher, but as an immediate fix I don't buy it.

[ABQcowboyJR]

Bequette is the dude. I would not have a problem letting spence walk if we drafted this kid. I say give spence a reasonable 2 year deal and if he takes it great, if not so long. Just gotta get this kid Bequette to Dallas.

[ABQCOWBOY]

The problem with Spencer, IMO, is not his physical skills. He has those, always has. That's why we drafted him.

[robert70x7]

The problem with Spencer, IMO, is not his physical skills. He has those, always has. That's why we drafted him.

If you compare him and Ware's physical skills, they are simply sub par in my opinion. And based on this year's combine, there are better athletes out there. Not saying that it means they will be better, just wanted to see the rankings for myself.

[casmith07]

If you compare him and Ware's physical skills, they are simply sub par in my opinion. And based on this year's combine, there are better athletes out there. Not saying that it means they will be better, just wanted to see the rankings for myself.

If you're comparing Spencer's skills to DeMarcus Ware, you've already set yourself up for failure when it comes to reasonable analysis.

[Aven8]

That's why the pick should be Ingram.

I'm not looking for a replacement for Spence. I just want more pass rushers period. If Ingram, or whomever could come and give me Aldon Smith numbers off the bench, or even close I'll take it. Right now we have nobody outside of Ware, Rat, and Butler who even have any rush skills.

[Dough Boy]

If you're comparing Spencer's skills to DeMarcus Ware, you've already set yourself up for failure when it comes to reasonable analysis.

Bingo. D. Ware is one in a decade type talent. He could easily play the SOLB in a 3-4 or 4-3 def end. If given the opportunity, he could get 4 picks, 12 sacks per year. Now, I would not advise dropping him in coverage enough to garner 4 ints, but you get the point. I would not beat against this dude.

Spencer is very athletic; he just is not D. Ware athletic. But then again, how many are in today's football.... Peppers, JPP, Urlacher (in his prime), Super Mario... Again, just talking athleticism not production.

When you add the two together, I can not believe he has never one defensive player of the month, let alone Def Player of the Year.

[texbumthelife]

But he is not an every down 3-4 OLB. I don't buy it. He isn't strong enough and would get engulfed by offensive lineman. We don't need another Ware, we already have one. We need complimentary pieces that, and a pass rush that can be generated from our defensive line that will make or SOLB that much better.

All he did was rush the passer, was situational and was never asked to play against the run or in zone coverage against the pass. We don't need a sack specialist, we need a complete 3-4 SOLB or two pieces that can make up one. If we draft Irvin in the 3rd for passing situations only, I'm fine with that. I think he has potential to develop into something else other than a pass rusher, but as an immediate fix I don't buy it.

I agree with those who would sacrifice rush defense for more pass rush. I would rather be a middle ground rush defense with elite pass rush (Giants) than a very good rush defense who can't get to the quarterback.

[Doomsday101]

Spencer's 40-time for a man his size is pretty darn fast.

I agree. I was checking Mario Williams and his was a 4.66