Nate just said go after the pass rusher, not the guard.

[Aven8]

Just heard him discussing on his show Coop and Nate. He said if we get both Carr and Finngen and if we don't add anything to the Dline it won't matter.

He said that an average DB can hold there guy for around 2.5 seconds. If we have no pressure Deion himself couldn't hold that long.

JJT was sitting in for Coop and said you don't think we should get Finnegen, or Carr, and he said it won't matter if we don't get more pass rushers.

JJT then asked Nate what about going Decastro, and he said forget the guards. Get a stout Center. A Center that can call the defense and direct everything. That will enable Tony to step up.

I thought it was interesting that a guard, and somebody that has been harping on getting Olineman for yrs said all of this. I agree with him. My bet is hopefully the Cowboys do to.

[Gaede]

I agree with him as well. Center is our biggest weakness and repairing that will make a bigger difference than repairing G. Though G needs addressing as well, it can be fixed with less resources than some are dying to spend.

[GloryDaysRBack]

Everything I've been saying all along

[ABQCOWBOY]

Bang the drum Nate but unfortunately, it probably won't matter. The Cowboy Fan Base wants DeCastro. That may not be what the team is thinking but I doubt we will change the collective minds of the Fan Base. I think most are set on DeCastro or Bust mode.

[InmanRoshi]

This should have been be pretty evident after watching the Giants win a Superbowl with rather mediocre OL and CBs and a great pass rush.

[Woods]

Just heard him discussing on his show Coop and Nate. He said if we get both Carr and Finngen and if we don't add anything to the Dline it won't matter.

He said that an average DB can hold there guy for around 2.5 seconds. If we have no pressure Deion himself couldn't hold that long.

JJT was sitting in for Coop and said you don't think we should get Finnegen, or Carr, and he said it won't matter if we don't get more pass rushers.

JJT then asked Nate what about going Decastro, and he said forget the guards. Get a stout Center. A Center that can call the defense and direct everything. That will enable Tony to step up.

I thought it was interesting that a guard, and somebody that has been harping on getting Olineman for yrs said all of this. I agree with him. My bet is hopefully the Cowboys do to.

So which pass rusher do you prefer at 14?

I like Ingram, but I don't think he'll be there. Don't think Coples will be there at 14 either.

I'm torn on Poe, not sure whether he's worth the risk.

Seems like Perry may be better suited as a 43 DE. I'm not as keen on Upshaw at OLB. Maybe Marceilus (sp?)? He seems like a prospect with a lot of upside, though I don't know if 14 is too early. I guess it depends if you think he's another JPP type. Then clearly he is.

Honestly, as much as I'd prefer a pressure player, I'm more comfortable with DeCastro, Glenn (assuming Ingram and Coples are gone). And the same goes for CB, I think we can get a good one in Round 2. I doubt we take a WR/QB/RB in Round 1 either.

Was it Mayock who said that this draft is very good for DL but not so good for pass rushers?

[supercowboy8]

say Ingram is gone Decastro is there, who do you pick if not DeCastro. Who is that pass rusher. I don't see many true all pro pass rushers. day one true all pro pass rushers go top 10.

I mean I would trade the #14 pick for Suggs or Von Miller but I doubt that would happen.

[GloryDaysRBack]

Bang the drum Nate but unfortunately, it probably won't matter. The Cowboy Fan Base wants DeCastro. That may not be what the team is thinking but I doubt we will change the collective minds of the Fan Base. I think most are set on DeCastro or Bust mode.

Unbelievable how true this is

[supercowboy8]

So which pass rusher do you prefer at 14?

I like Ingram, but I don't think he'll be there. Don't think Coples will be there at 14 either.

I'm torn on Poe, not sure whether he's worth the risk.

Seems like Perry may be better suited as a 43 DE. I'm not as keen on Upshaw at OLB. Maybe Marceilus (sp?)?

Was it Mayock who said that this draft is very good for DL but not so good for pass rushers?

This part is true. I don't see anyone to take at 14 that would help a whole lot.

[Chocolate Lab]

Bang the drum Nate but unfortunately, it probably won't matter. The Cowboy Fan Base wants DeCastro. That may not be what the team is thinking but I doubt we will change the collective minds of the Fan Base. I think most are set on DeCastro or Bust mode.

I know, it's like if someone were to draft DeCastro ahead of us, we'd just be screwed and could go ahead and book it that Tony was going to end up as a pool of protoplasm.

For all we know, we might sign a G in free agency and make Decastro unnecessary and all this will be for naught.

[supercowboy8]

Dolphins draft Pouncey last year at 15
in 2010 Iupait went 17 and Maurkice POuncey went 18.

Is 14 that much of a reach for DeCastro

[JohnsKey19]

Bang the drum Nate but unfortunately, it probably won't matter. The Cowboy Fan Base wants DeCastro. That may not be what the team is thinking but I doubt we will change the collective minds of the Fan Base. I think most are set on DeCastro or Bust mode.


The only thing we've heard out of Valley Ranch was they misjudged the C position. So that admission along with Costa's struggles make it likely that C is addressed this offseason. The OG talk is more fans wishing it seems than anything else because of the players who may be available. Nicks/Grubbs and DeCastro are great players and certainly would help but i dont think the team is looking in that direction. JMO...

[supercowboy8]

I know, it's like if someone were to draft DeCastro ahead of us, we'd just be screwed and could go ahead and book it that Tony was going to end up as a pool of protoplasm.

For all we know, we might sign a G in free agency and make Decastro unnecessary and all this will be for naught.

I'm not all for drafting DeCastro but if he is the top of the board you take him. DO you reach for another Spencer at 14 or you take the BPA. Its easy to say tkae the pass rusher. I rank Pass rushers over OG thats why I would take Ingram over DeCastro but what if Ingram is gone like most think.

[Woods]

I know, it's like if someone were to draft DeCastro ahead of us, we'd just be screwed and could go ahead and book it that Tony was going to end up as a pool of protoplasm.

For all we know, we might sign a G in free agency and make Decastro unnecessary and all this will be for naught.

I put this in another post, but I would not be surprised at all if we didn't draft an OG Day 1 or Day 2 or even with the top 4 picks.

We could just as easily end up bringing back Holland and let him, Kosier, Nagy and Arkin battle it out.

It's not what I would do, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[tm1119]

I would be all for this except for the fact that theres no great pass rusher in this draft. Not even 1 that is a sure upgrade to Spencer. Im so pro DeCastro because I think he will be far and away the best pro of the players who be available at pick #14, if he is even there. People saying things like "I think DeCastro will be a pro bowler, but guard isnt a good value that high" is crazy to me. The interior of our o-line is just flat out bad. Im all for adding a center in FA, it very well may be the most important piece, but I also want a stud OG to ensure that our talented play makers actually get a chance to make a play. The defense can be fixed without the 14th pick. Theres always free agency and rounds 2 and 3 to get upgrades.

[Doomsday101]

Bang the drum Nate but unfortunately, it probably won't matter. The Cowboy Fan Base wants DeCastro. That may not be what the team is thinking but I doubt we will change the collective minds of the Fan Base. I think most are set on DeCastro or Bust mode.

I can honestly say I never go into a draft with only 1 option. DeCastro is just one of them. Frankly I don't get how anyone can go into a draft thinking 1 player or bust mind set.

Only issue I have had with some are those saying you shouldn’t take DeCastro.

[reddyuta]

everything Nate said is the truth.the biggest problem on the offense was that weakling Costa who still hasnt mastered the simple art of snapping the ball correctly!!(he is also the worst center in the league).Our DEs and Spencer are also not doing their job(except Hatcher).they also cannot collapse pocket ,QBs are not scared of our pass rush at all and it makes me sick to watch Eli just stepping up in the pocket and calmly making the pass.our season is a non starter if we dont get a new center,that is our most important FA acquisition.

[Woods]

This part is true. I don't see anyone to take at 14 that would help a whole lot.

The one guy who is interesting to me at OLB outside of Ingram and Coples (at DE) is Mercilus. I just don't know how he'd transition. I think maybe SDogo or someone who has really scouted him would have a better idea.

I'm not as keen on Upshaw or Perry.

[jterrell]

say Ingram is gone Decastro is there, who do you pick if not DeCastro. Who is that pass rusher. I don't see many true all pro pass rushers. day one true all pro pass rushers go top 10.

I mean I would trade the #14 pick for Suggs or Von Miller but I doubt that would happen.

Except Ware went 11, Merriman went 12, Orakpo went 13, JPP went 15, Tamba Hali went 20, Terrell Suggs did go 10.

Other than those guys I guess you are right....

[jjktkk]

Dolphins draft Pouncey last year at 15
in 2010 Iupait went 17 and Maurkice POuncey went 18.

Is 14 that much of a reach for DeCastro

Its not a reach for Decastro at 14, but if you have the chance to land a elite pass rusher, or an elite DT like Dallas has a chance to , you really need to consider taking the elite defender.

[supercowboy8]

The one guy who is interesting to me at OLB outside of Ingram and Coples (at DE) is Mercilus. I just don't know how he'd transition. I think maybe SDogo or someone who has really scouted him would have a better idea.

I'm not as keen on Upshaw or Perry.

I don't think he could be a day one SOLB. He stands up tall at the line, not very moblie. Looks like a true 4-3 DE to me. I can't see him as a 3-4 OLB.
To stiff hipped to be a 3-4 OLB, never dropped into coverage.
No way I would take him at 14 over DeCastro and expect him to better than Spencer.

[supercowboy8]

Its not a reach for Decastro at 14, but if you have the chance to land a elite pass rusher, or an elite DT like Dallas has a chance to , you really need to consider taking the elite defender.
But who is the elite pass rusher. I have siad I would take INgram over DeCastro but this draft is weak in pass rushers. There isn't a Kerrigan we can draft.

[Gaede]

So which pass rusher do you prefer at 14?



I really like Mercilus. He's athletic enough to stand up and rush the passer, strong enough to play the run, upside is through the roof, great intangibles (guy who coached Ware also coached Whitney and compares his hustle to Ware), and can obviously can play with his hand on the ground. People think he's stiff but he measures just as well as Spencer.

Drafting him offers the defense pressure and versatility. We can be 3/4 and stand him up or put him and Ware at DE and play a 4-3. We know Ryan loves to confuse the QB and having two OLB/DE who can get at the QB from either position and are athletic and strong enough to stop the run would wreak havoc on the offense. He doesn't look smooth enough to turn and cover, so Ryan would have to scheme around that. But having multiple guys on your team who can do multiple things on any given down would offer him the ability to scheme better.

I believe this is why we were so interested in Aldon Smith and JJ Watt. Two extremely athletic pressure players that can play all over the field and confuse the offense.

[Woods]

Its not a reach for Decastro at 14, but if you have the chance to land a elite pass rusher, or an elite DT like Dallas has a chance to , you really need to consider taking the elite defender.

I think most agree with that line of thinking.

The issue is who do you consider the elite pass rusher who is likely to be there at 14?

Of course, there is no right or wrong answer as of today. I'm just curious who you think that player is (and likely to be there at 14)?

[Woods]

I really like Mercilus. He's athletic enough to stand up and rush the passer, strong enough to play the run, upside is through the roof, great intangibles (guy who coached Ware also coached Whitney and compares his hustle to Ware), and can obviously can play with his hand on the ground. People think he's stiff but he measures just as well as Spencer.

Drafting him offers the defense pressure and versatility. We can be 3/4 and stand him up or put him and Ware at DE and play a 4-3. We know Ryan loves to confuse the QB and having two OLB/DE who can get at the QB from either position and are athletic and strong enough to stop the run would wreak havoc on the offense. He doesn't look smooth enough to turn and cover, so Ryan would have to scheme around that. But having multiple guys on your team who can do multiple things on any given down would offer him the ability to scheme better.

That's a fair answer.

As I mentioned, Mercilus intrigues me as well.

Do you like him more as a player than say DeCastro at 14? Taking into account DeCastro is an OG while Mercilus is potentially an OLB in our defense.

[InmanRoshi]

If Ryan Kerrigan, Tamba Hali and Connor Barwin have the athletic ability to stand up as in a 3-4, Mercilus can. Hali ran a 4.87 in his Pro Day workout. People get way too rigid on who can or can't play in a 3-4 or vice versa.

[Woods]

But who is the elite pass rusher. I have siad I would take INgram over DeCastro but this draft is weak in pass rushers. There isn't a Kerrigan we can draft.

Ingram would be my first choice as an OLB as well.

I think RR could use him at LB, DL, in a 43, 34 defense, etc.

I don't think Ingram will be there at 14 either, unfortunately.

[Sasquatch]

So which pass rusher do you prefer at 14?

I like Ingram, but I don't think he'll be there. Don't think Coples will be there at 14 either.

I'm torn on Poe, not sure whether he's worth the risk.

Seems like Perry may be better suited as a 43 DE. I'm not as keen on Upshaw at OLB. Maybe Marceilus (sp?)? He seems like a prospect with a lot of upside, though I don't know if 14 is too early. I guess it depends if you think he's another JPP type. Then clearly he is.

Honestly, as much as I'd prefer a pressure player, I'm more comfortable with DeCastro, Glenn (assuming Ingram and Coples are gone). And the same goes for CB, I think we can get a good one in Round 2. I doubt we take a WR/QB/RB in Round 1 either.

Was it Mayock who said that this draft is very good for DL but not so good for pass rushers?

This is my concern as well. I don't dispute Nate's logic, just am not sure that this the best draft for executing it. Play to the draft's strengths.

[jblaze2004]

Just heard him discussing on his show Coop and Nate. He said if we get both Carr and Finngen and if we don't add anything to the Dline it won't matter.

He said that an average DB can hold there guy for around 2.5 seconds. If we have no pressure Deion himself couldn't hold that long.

JJT was sitting in for Coop and said you don't think we should get Finnegen, or Carr, and he said it won't matter if we don't get more pass rushers.

JJT then asked Nate what about going Decastro, and he said forget the guards. Get a stout Center. A Center that can call the defense and direct everything. That will enable Tony to step up.

I thought it was interesting that a guard, and somebody that has been harping on getting Olineman for yrs said all of this. I agree with him. My bet is hopefully the Cowboys do to.

mmmm sounds like something I said in another thread. Get a passrusher in round 1. A corner in FA. You can always get a guard in round 2 or 3. Heck the giants and packer won the superbowl with out probowl guards. But we need a center bad. Costa was constantly pushed into tony romo. I remember he got his but whipped constantly by brandon spikes A LINEBACKER.

[supercowboy8]

Ingram would be my first choice as an OLB as well.

I think RR could use him at LB, DL, in a 43, 34 defense, etc.

I don't think Ingram will be there at 14 either, unfortunately.

Yes Ingram if there at 14 but many say he is gone by 14. SO then who.
Lets say Ingram is gone like most think and Decastrois there. Do you reach and not take BPA. I take BPA in DeCastro.

[SDogo]

Who is that pass rusher Nate? Do you reach for a pass rusher that may or may not be better then what we have or do you go for the value and immediate starter which is better then what he have in David DeCastro?

I swear people are loosing their minds over this draft just because it involves a OG. *** people, you upgrade the weakest unit on your team with the best player at the position. End of story.

[InmanRoshi]

Look at the guys who have had 15+ sack seasons in Div I NCAA. T Suggs, E Dumverill, Dwight Freeney, Jason Babin, Jard Allen. History has shown if you have a skillset or set of traits that allows you to get 15+ sacks in college, it's going to transfer to the NFL at some point whether the scouts love you or not. Whitney Marcilus is going to be a good pass rusher in the NFL, and a lot of teams are going to be kicking themselves as to why they convinced themselves otherwise through paralysis by analysis.

People want this Julius Peppers or Von Miller super-super-super blue chipperfreak of nature pass rusher to be there at #14 ... that kind of pass rusher doesn't fall to #14.

[Doomsday101]

mmmm sounds like something I said in another thread. Get a passrusher in round 1. A corner in FA. You can always get a guard in round 2 or 3. Heck the giants and packer won the superbowl with out probowl guards. But we need a center bad. Costa was constantly pushed into tony romo. I remember he got his but whipped constantly by brandon spikes A LINEBACKER.

That sound great you say get a pass rusher who? which pass rusher. I'm not saying some of these prospect will not develop but at least when people talk about taking a G they are talking about 1 person by name not a generic person. Dallas has gone after so called pass rushers and ended up not getting the best player and in the end did not get the pass rusher they had hoped for.

[burmafrd]

All these gomers constantly saying take the BPA at our pick then we do that and suddenly they are not for BPA.

If Decastro is there at #14 there is unlikely to be ANYONE higher on our board. But stupid people always undervalue the O line.

[supercowboy8]

If Ryan Kerrigan, Tamba Hali and Connor Barwin have the athletic ability to stand up as in a 3-4, Mercilus can. Hali ran a 4.87 in his Pro Day workout. People get way too rigid on who can or can't play in a 3-4 or vice versa.

Also Mercilus one year wonder in college scares me. I don't see him being a dominate pass rusher in the 3-4. I have watche dhim play. He looks like a true 3-4.
Taking him at 14 is a big reach to pass on a for sure player for a maybe player.

[jjktkk]

Who is that pass rusher Nate? Do you reach for a pass rusher that may or may not be better then what we have or do you go for the value and immediate starter which is better then what he have in David DeCastro?

I swear people are loosing their minds over this draft just because it involves a OG. *** people, you upgrade the weakest unit on your team with the best player at the position. End of story.

I asked Hoofbite this question, so I'll ask you, why can't the Cowboys address the interior Oline thru free agency?

[Chocolate Lab]

I put this in another post, but I would not be surprised at all if we didn't draft an OG Day 1 or Day 2 or even with the top 4 picks.

We could just as easily end up bringing back Holland and let him, Kosier, Nagy and Arkin battle it out.

It's not what I would do, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Same here. I could see something like signing Wells in FA, drafting the best guard in the second (traditionally you can get very good guards in the top half of the second), and starting Holland, Wells, and whoever wins between Arkin, Nagy, and the rookie.

That would be two very good OTs -- one of them with All-Pro talent -- one very good C from FA, one solid vet guard and one young 2nd-4th round guard. With good coaching, that should be plenty of resources to have a very good OL.

One thing I think people are underestimating in all this is how bad a job Houck did. I suspect Callahan will do a much better job coaching up what he has, like most teams do.

[jterrell]

If Ryan Kerrigan, Tamba Hali and Connor Barwin have the athletic ability to stand up as in a 3-4, Mercilus can. Hali ran a 4.87 in his Pro Day workout. People get way too rigid on who can or can't play in a 3-4 or vice versa.

If your front 7 guys run more than 20 yards at a time then you got #defenseproblems

Give me strength numbers and agility numbers in my front 7.

I need 1 LB who can really run and cover to play pass defense but that's about it.

[Woods]

Yes Ingram if there at 14 but many say he is gone by 14. SO then who.
Lets say Ingram is gone like most think and Decastrois there. Do you reach and not take BPA. I take BPA in DeCastro.

I'd take DeCastro if that was the situation as well.

Now, the other thing is maybe the Cowboys want to improve the pass rush by getting a DL to help collapse the pocket.

So, we have Cox, Brockers, Poe, Still, and Coples who would be the likely candidates.

Out of those, I'd prefer Cox and Poe (assuming Coples is gone). I think Poe is your boom or bust. That's a tough decision to make on him. As for Cox, I think you could trade back and get him around 20ish.

I'd guess Coples is gone by 14.

That still leaves me wanting to draft DeCastro - unless the coaching staff was really convinced regarding Poe.

[Doomsday101]

Look at the guys who have had 15+ sack seasons in Div I NCAA. T Suggs, E Dumverill, Dwight Freeney, Jason Babin, Jard Allen. History has shown if you have a skillset or set of traits that allows you to get 15+ sacks in college, it's going to transfer to the NFL at some point whether the scouts love you or not. Whitney Marcilus is going to be a good pass rusher in the NFL, and a lot of teams are going to be kicking themselves as to why they convinced themselves otherwise through paralysis by analysis.

Jared Allen was a 4th rd pick. If dallas gets Whitney I hope he is the pass rusher we would love to have but he could just as easy be a JAG like some other pass rushers fans has gushed over. NFL draft is pretty much a crap shoot and yes even DeCastro but when you see how these guys grade out instead of focusing in on a position then it is not hard to see how highly thought of DeCastro is. What you guys are doing is focused on a position as if the position make the players it doesn't the player makes the position. We have had our share of duds that were billed at pass rusher.

[jjktkk]

Same here. I could see something like signing Wells in FA, drafting the best guard in the second (traditionally you can get very good guards in the top half of the second), and starting Holland, Wells, and whoever wins between Arkin, Nagy, and the rookie.

That would be two very good OTs -- one of them with All-Pro talent -- one very good C from FA, one solid vet guard and one young 2nd-4th round guard. With good coaching, that should be plenty of resources to have a very good OL.

One thing I think people are underestimating in all this is how bad a job Houck did. I suspect Callahan will do a much better job coaching up what he has, like most teams do.

Agree. Imo this way of addressing the Oline is easier than trying to improve the defensive front 7(Dline, pass rush), thru free agency.

[Woods]

Jared Allen was a 4th rd pick. If dallas gets Whitney I hope he is the pass rusher we would love to have but he could just as easy be a JAG like some other pass rushers fans has gushed over. NFL draft is pretty much a crap shoot and yes even DeCastro but when you see how these guys grade out instead of focusing in on a position then it is not hard to see how highly thought of DeCastro is. What you guys are doing is focused on a position as if the position make the players it doesn't the player makes the position. We have had our share of duds that were billed at pass rusher.


E Ekuban comes to mind. :p:

[InmanRoshi]

Also Mercilus one year wonder in college scares me. I don't see him being a dominate pass rusher in the 3-4. I have watche dhim play. He looks like a true 3-4.
Taking him at 14 is a big reach to pass on a for sure player for a maybe player.

So you're punishing him for playing so well as a junior that he's leaving school early?

People go on and on about how this 4-3 guy can't play in a 3-4 and vice versa and they're generally proven to be wrong. Great pass rusher are great pass rushers in any system. Tamba Hali ran a 4.87 in his pro day. He played in a 4-3 all his life dating back to college. He's done nothing but blossom ever since he's been moved to a 3-4.

[SDogo]

I asked Hoofbite this question, so I'll ask you, why can't the Cowboys address the interior Oline thru free agency?

They can and then can also address a pass rusher via FA. At the same time, we need 2 OG's. Spencer will be resigned, there is not a OLB in FA or the draft that is a immediate upgrade to him. Now you turn to DE, we can use an upgrade there but is that position going to produce the pass rusher your looking for? Not likely and certainly not in the draft or at the very least not at 14.

People keep saying this is a OG deep draft and we can get one later, at the same time some of the best pass rushing prospects are valued in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. You either reach for them at 14, trade down and still reach or you take the best prospect at his position, the best value and the player that offers the most upgrade on your team at that time in David DeCastro.

[InmanRoshi]

E Ekuban comes to mind. :p:

Yep Marcilus and Ekuban are exactly alike. Other than the fact that Ekuban was never really productive in college and Mercilus is coming off of a 16 sack, 9 FF and 22.5 TFL season. Other than that, exactly alike.

Hey, you know who DeCastro reminds me of? Chris Neole. Nothing specific, but you got to admit .. they are both highly drafted guards.

[TheSport78]

They can and then can also address a pass rusher via FA. At the same time, we need 2 OG's. Spencer will be resigned, there is not a OLB in FA or the draft that is a immediate upgrade to him. Now you turn to DE, we can use an upgrade there but is that position going to produce the pass rusher your looking for? Not likely and certainly not in the draft or at the very least not at 14.

People keep saying this is a OG deep draft and we can get one later, at the same time some of the best pass rushing prospects are valued in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. You either reach for them at 14, trade down and still reach or you take the best prospect at his position, the best value and the player that offers the most upgrade on your team at that time in David DeCastro.
:hammer::hammer::hammer:

[InmanRoshi]

They can and then can also address a pass rusher via FA.

Which pass rushers do you like in free agency? They're generally in high demand.

[Woods]

Yep Marcilus and Ekuban are exactly alike. Other than the fact that Ekuban was never really productive in college and Mercilus is coming off of a 16 sack, 9 FF and 22.5 TFL season. Other than that, exactly alike.

Hey, you know who DeCastro reminds me of? Chris Neole?

That smilie thing next to the comment was meant to be a joke. ;)

Look, end of the day it's personal preference.

[jterrell]

Who is that pass rusher Nate? Do you reach for a pass rusher that may or may not be better then what we have or do you go for the value and immediate starter which is better then what he have in David DeCastro?

I swear people are loosing their minds over this draft just because it involves a OG. *** people, you upgrade the weakest unit on your team with the best player at the position. End of story.

OG is NOT the weakest unit on this team. Nagy, Arkin and Dockery or Holland is a soft group but not a terrible one. (that's what 60 combined NFL starts??)
OC is far worse. Costa/Kowalski
So is CB once we cut TNew which is inevitable.(Jenkins/Scandrick/Thomas)
And OLB becomes worse if we aren't held hostage to pay Spencer 9 million.(Ware/Butler/Albright)

It is shocking how simple-minded people can be. If we can upgrade at other positions without using pick 14 we can certainly upgrade OG without doing so. There are a bevy of interior OL about to hit free agency. And plenty more guys in the draft than 1 with a good grade.

Who gives a crap what talent we have right now? It is about what is the best possible team you can field for game 1.

[Sandyf]

We have to do a good job in free agency first and hopefully Jerry, Stephen and Jason will get it done. In the draft we should be taking the BPA, if not then you end up reaching for a guy and that rarely turns out well especially for the Cowboys.

My HOPE:
Free Agents"
Brandon Carr CB
Tyvon Branch SS
Kraig Urbik OC (will cost a 4th since he is a RFA)
Anthony Spencer OLB
Laurent Robinson WR
Mat McBriar P
Tony Fiammetta

Draft:
#14 Dontario Poe NT
#45 Trumaine Johnson CB
#82 Kevin Zeitler OG
4th Jake Bequette OLB (comp pick)
5th Josh Robinson CB
6th Donte Paige-Moss OLB (only reason is he will be an IR but potential huge)
7th George Bryan TE

[SDogo]

Which pass rushers do you like in free agency? They're generally in high demand.

There are not many, just like it seems the options at OG will be limited. I already stated there are no options better then Spencer unless you count Mario Williams and project him at OLB.

Mark Anderson OLB from NE is a name no one is talking about but the guy put up 10 sacks last year.

Corry Redding DE from Balt is solid and can put up 10 sacks a year but is aging.

Those are probably the top two outside of Williams. Like I said, limited but so is the OG class if Grubbs or Nick or both are taken off the market.

[Woods]

There are not many, just like it seems the options at OG will be limited. I already stated there are no options better then Spencer unless you count Mario Williams and project him at OLB.

Mark Anderson OLB from NE is a name no one is talking about but the guy put up 10 sacks last year.

Corry Redding DE from Balt is solid and can put up 10 sacks a year but is aging.

Those are probably the top two outside of Williams. Like I said, limited but so is the OG class if Grubbs or Nick or both are taken off the market.

Out of curiousity, why do you think he's flying under the radar? He seems like a good and improving player to me.

[reddyuta]

An OLB who cant manage more than 6 sacks even in his contract year with Ware playing the other side is not the answer.I believe there are pass rushers in this draft who can do better)plus we dont have to pay him 50 million.

[InmanRoshi]

Jared Allen was a 4th rd pick.

Right, he fell to the 4th round after a 17.5 sacks season. And Elvis Dumvervil fell to the 4th round after a 20 sacks season. Which shows how dumb scouts are when they ignore college production from a pass rusher.

[Doomsday101]

OG is NOT the weakest unit on this team. Nagy, Arkin and Dockery or Holland is a soft group but not a terrible one. (that's what 60 combined NFL starts??)
OC is far worse. Costa/Kowalski
So is CB once we cut TNew which is inevitable.(Jenkins/Scandrick/Thomas)
And OLB becomes worse if we aren't held hostage to pay Spencer 9 million.(Ware/Butler/Albright)

It is shocking how simple-minded people can be. If we can upgrade at other positions without using pick 14 we can certainly upgrade OG without doing so. There are a bevy of interior OL about to hit free agency. And plenty more guys in the draft than 1 with a good grade.

Who gives a crap what talent we have right now? It is about what is the best possible team you can field for game 1.

No it is not. The draft is not about game 1 of next year the draft is what you build with, it is long term. If you want to get a quick fix go to FA you have a better ideal of what you are getting.

[SDogo]

OG is NOT the weakest unit on this team. Nagy, Arkin and Dockery or Holland is a soft group but not a terrible one. (that's what 60 combined NFL starts??)

OC is far worse. Costa/Kowalski[/QUOTE]

Arguable at best. Arkin can play center and there is a reason Dockey and Holland have been on and off this roster


So is CB once we cut TNew which is inevitable.(Jenkins/Scandrick/Thomas)
And OLB becomes worse if we aren't held hostage to pay Spencer 9 million.(Ware/Butler/Albright)

CB is a mess but it will be fixed via FA, not worth discussing.

It is shocking how simple-minded people can be. If we can upgrade at other positions without using pick 14 we can certainly upgrade OG without doing so. There are a bevy of interior OL about to hit free agency. And plenty more guys in the draft than 1 with a good grade.

Simple minded? The best player at a position of need is sitting there. Your argument applies to the pass rusher as well. Calling the kettle black a bit here are we not?

Who gives a crap what talent we have right now? It is about what is the best possible team you can field for game 1.

ahh correct, thus this thread and the reason we are all here. Discussing addition to make the team better day 1................................and?

[SDogo]

Out of curiousity, why do you think he's flying under the radar? He seems like a good and improving player to me.

He's 28, not sure how much more he is going to improve but more then that when have you seen his name pop up in any thread about FA? All the talk has been about Mario Williams as if he is the only option.

[Doomsday101]

And Elvis Dumverill was a 2nd rounder. Which shows how dumb scouts are when they ignore college production from a pass rusher.

I don't think they are dumb, we see players at different position including DL who put up great college numbers and do not do much in the Pros. I think scouts do the best they can with all the information they can get but in the end you don't know

Eric Norwood was considered one of the top pass rusher in 09 with 22 sacks

In 2 years and 28 games in the NFL he has 1 sack.

[Deep_Freeze]

They can and then can also address a pass rusher via FA. At the same time, we need 2 OG's. Spencer will be resigned, there is not a OLB in FA or the draft that is a immediate upgrade to him. Now you turn to DE, we can use an upgrade there but is that position going to produce the pass rusher your looking for? Not likely and certainly not in the draft or at the very least not at 14.

People keep saying this is a OG deep draft and we can get one later, at the same time some of the best pass rushing prospects are valued in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. You either reach for them at 14, trade down and still reach or you take the best prospect at his position, the best value and the player that offers the most upgrade on your team at that time in David DeCastro.

I can see what your saying, but you also have to see its much harder to get that pass rusher in free agency. They are much more expensive, and teams usually lock them up quick.

The same can't be said for G, most of the greats have hit free agency at one time or another. DeCastro should be there and should be an option, but we also can't give up on trying to get that help that Ware needs from the top 15 depending on if someone falls.

[realtick]

Look at the guys who have had 15+ sack seasons in Div I NCAA. T Suggs, E Dumverill, Dwight Freeney, Jason Babin, Jard Allen. History has shown if you have a skillset or set of traits that allows you to get 15+ sacks in college, it's going to transfer to the NFL at some point whether the scouts love you or not. Whitney Marcilus is going to be a good pass rusher in the NFL, and a lot of teams are going to be kicking themselves as to why they convinced themselves otherwise through paralysis by analysis.

People want this Julius Peppers or Von Miller super-super-super blue chipperfreak of nature pass rusher to be there at #14 ... that kind of pass rusher doesn't fall to #14.

Hmmm, how about Michael Haynes, Ameer Ismail, guys like Bruce Davis who was putting up back-to-back 12 sack seasons, Greg Middleton, Vernon Gholston, George Selvie, et cetera?

Registering 15 sacks (or whatever the magical number) doesn't automatcially equate to NFL success. In fact, the falsity of the notion can be illustrated by the fact Jason Pierre-Paul had only 6.5 sacks in his one year at USF.

[Hostile]

I agree with Nate in Free Agency, but not in the Draft. I would never pass on DeCastro.

[realtick]

I don't think they are dumb, we see players at different position including DL who put up great college numbers and do not do much in the Pros. I think scouts do the best they can with all the information they can get but in the end you don't know

Eric Norwood was considered one of the top pass rusher in 09 with 22 sacks

In 2 years and 28 games in the NFL he has 1 sack.

Exactly.

I could create a list longer than Schindler's of former college DEs/LBs pass rushers who had 12-15+ sack seasons that would have folks saying "oh yeah, I remember that guy..." that haven't done jack-squat in the NFL.

There are so many variables that determine whether a player will have success or not. It's not as simple as pointing to sack totals in college.

[InmanRoshi]

Registering 15 sacks (or whatever the magical number) doesn't equate to NFL success.

Actually, recording 15+ sacks season in college does in fact correlate to a high degree of success. Facts are right, you're wrong. Sorry.

[realtick]

Actually, recording 15+ sacks season in college does in fact correlate to a high degree of success. Facts are right, you're wrong. Sorry.

Yeah, actually it doesn't.

Care to share the data, or do you find more peace of mind in just making assertions and "fact-checking" them with your intuition?

[jswalker1981]

Bang the drum Nate but unfortunately, it probably won't matter. The Cowboy Fan Base wants DeCastro. That may not be what the team is thinking but I doubt we will change the collective minds of the Fan Base. I think most are set on DeCastro or Bust mode.

Oh, because Holland and Kosier are studs that don't need replacing. :rolleyes:

[realtick]

Actually, recording 15+ sacks season in college does in fact correlate to a high degree of success. Facts are right, you're wrong. Sorry.

Let me help you since I know you won't be responding because you have nothing to support your claim.

Here are college players 2005 to present that have registered 15+ sacks:

2005
Elvis Dummervil
Dan Bazuin
Willie Evans

2006
Ameer Ismail

2007
Greg Middleton

2008
Jerry Hughes

2009
Brandon Sharpe
Von Miller

2010
Da'Quan Bowers

2011
Whitney Mercilus


There's two guys there out of that list that can legitimately be said that their college dominance/skills translated to NFL success. Your "facts" are wrong.....again.

[Chuck 54]

If there's someone at 14 that you think warrants the pick, especially cb, lb, or DL, great....if you aren't in love, trade down in round 1, pick up a starting C and extra picks.

If Tannyhill doesn't go top 10, he could be in play...I'd love to see him on board when 14 comes up....we'd get a nice offer to move down a bit.

[newlander]

I agree with Nate in Free Agency, but not in the Draft. I would never pass on DeCastro.


.......DeCAstro is a beast and we HAVE to do something to stem the tide up front: the gspots, eagles abuse us up front and the skins more than hold their own. IF there was a viable, solid pass rusher at 14 I would agree with Nate but this draft is thin in that category, and the few there are will be gone by the time we pick. DeCastro or Glenn is fine by me. Sign Finnegan or Carr at CB and also a vet center: either Myers or Samele.

The problem is, we won't be able to address all our needs this off season: just too many holes. If there was NO salary cap then maybe, but this situation has been made worse by Jerrah and Ciskowski: they haven't drafted well enought the last 5 years: the 2009 "special teams" draft is killing us right now

[Mr Cowboy]

Spencer is not the problem with this defense, its the defensive ends. If there is a bonifide player of the JJ Watt caliber sitting there at 14 I would take him over De Castro. Problem is that there is no such player. Ingram is not a DE and neither is Upshaw. Hightower is the closest to Spencer, but has not played the position.

When we are on the clock, I believe that De Castro will be the BPA. You don't reach for a player just because you don't think that OG is not a value.

This team needs better DE play, not a replacement for Spencer. We need to get past the days when we were told that our DEs were only required to tie up OL and not expected to rush the passer. Every other team running the 3-4 gets pressure from their DEs.

Did everyone forget the terrible OL play from the interior of our line from just a few months ago?

[L-O-Jete]

Grab Mario Williams and go back to a 4-3 and Wells or Myers in FA.
That is the key to success.

[Smith22]

Spencer is not the problem with this defense, its the defensive ends. If there is a bonifide player of the JJ Watt caliber sitting there at 14 I would take him over De Castro. Problem is that there is no such player. Ingram is not a DE and neither is Upshaw. Hightower is the closest to Spencer, but has not played the position.

When we are on the clock, I believe that De Castro will be the BPA. You don't reach for a player just because you don't think that OG is not a value.

This team needs better DE play, not a replacement for Spencer. We need to get past the days when we were told that our DEs were only required to tie up OL and not expected to rush the passer. Every other team running the 3-4 gets pressure from their DEs.

Did everyone forget the terrible OL play from the interior of our line from just a few months ago?

Draft Poe and move Rat to DE??

[Primetime42]

Draft Poe and move Rat to DE??
The thought had crossed my mind...

[Aven8]

[QUOTE=Woods;4434592]So which pass rusher do you prefer at 14?

I like Ingram, but I don't think he'll be there. Don't think Coples will be there at 14 either.

I'm torn on Poe, not sure whether he's worth the risk.

Seems like Perry may be better suited as a 43 DE. I'm not as keen on Upshaw at OLB. Maybe Marceilus (sp?)? He seems like a prospect with a lot of upside, though I don't know if 14 is too early. I guess it depends if you think he's another JPP type. Then clearly he is.

Honestly, as much as I'd prefer a pressure player, I'm more comfortable with DeCastro, Glenn (assuming Ingram and Coples are gone). And the same goes for CB, I think we can get a good one in Round 2. I doubt we take a WR/QB/RB in Round 1 either.

Was it Mayock who said that this draft is very good for DL but not so good for pass rushers?[/

I like Ingram. He can play almost every position. Would be a great joker in Robs scheme. He is also great with the football in his hands for a big guy.

[realtick]

[quote=Woods;4434592]So which pass rusher do you prefer at 14?

I like Ingram, but I don't think he'll be there. Don't think Coples will be there at 14 either.

I'm torn on Poe, not sure whether he's worth the risk.

Seems like Perry may be better suited as a 43 DE. I'm not as keen on Upshaw at OLB. Maybe Marceilus (sp?)? He seems like a prospect with a lot of upside, though I don't know if 14 is too early. I guess it depends if you think he's another JPP type. Then clearly he is.

Honestly, as much as I'd prefer a pressure player, I'm more comfortable with DeCastro, Glenn (assuming Ingram and Coples are gone). And the same goes for CB, I think we can get a good one in Round 2. I doubt we take a WR/QB/RB in Round 1 either.

Was it Mayock who said that this draft is very good for DL but not so good for pass rushers?[/

I like Ingram. He can play almost every position. Would be a great joker in Robs scheme. He is also great with the football in his hands for a big guy.

I've been pimping Poe on this forum for months, but even I wouldn't want to take him at #14. I think he's a developmental prospect, and not an instant impact player ala Ndomakung Suh.

[Doomsday101]

Spencer is not the problem with this defense, its the defensive ends. If there is a bonifide player of the JJ Watt caliber sitting there at 14 I would take him over De Castro. Problem is that there is no such player. Ingram is not a DE and neither is Upshaw. Hightower is the closest to Spencer, but has not played the position.

When we are on the clock, I believe that De Castro will be the BPA. You don't reach for a player just because you don't think that OG is not a value.

This team needs better DE play, not a replacement for Spencer. We need to get past the days when we were told that our DEs were only required to tie up OL and not expected to rush the passer. Every other team running the 3-4 gets pressure from their DEs.

Did everyone forget the terrible OL play from the interior of our line from just a few months ago?

Romo did not forget. :eek:

[cowboy_ron]

So much is depending on what we do in FA as to who we take in rd 1

[Deep_Freeze]

So much is depending on what we do in FA as to who we take in rd 1

Well thank you.....starting to think I should put this in my sig cause I have said it so much, probably say it as much as we need balance on O and D.

I don't understand how we can marry any pick until we know who is available and who we get in free agency. Let's say we get Mario, front 7 is upgraded highly and DeCastro is front and center.

I'm not married to any pick til after free agency.

[Hoofbite]

I asked Hoofbite this question, so I'll ask you, why can't the Cowboys address the interior Oline thru free agency?

I responded.

They could but I don't see why it matters where they upgrade each spot so long as as many holes as possible are filled.

That's just part of the quote.

I'm wondering why they could fill spots on the defensive side of the ball in free agency?

[dmq]

Right, he fell to the 4th round after a 17.5 sacks season. And Elvis Dumvervil fell to the 4th round after a 20 sacks season. Which shows how dumb scouts are when they ignore college production from a pass rusher.

Yeah, but Elvis was productive in college because he had Montavious Stanley getting double teamed next to him. That's what Jeff Ireland told us.:D

[supercowboy8]

I agree with Nate in Free Agency, but not in the Draft. I would never pass on DeCastro.

I would pass on DeCastro on a good pass rusher like Ingram, Von Miller, Aldon Smith, or Kerrigan. But people look at stats and combine numbers and think reaching for a guy like Mercilus at 14 is just as good when they never seen him play and a can clearly see his game doesn't translate to a 3-4 SOLB. Andre Branch translate better than Mercilus does but I wouldn't take him over DeCastro. Branch and Mercilus isn't better than Spencer.

The only thing is, is that this draft doesn;t have a 3-4 DE or OLB pass rushers like last years draft had. I would take a JJ Watt over Decastro. But I don't see a Watt, Miller, or Kerrigan in this draft. Ingram is the closest one but he will go top 12.

[supercowboy8]

The only 3-4 DE I like at 14 would be Fletcher Cox. He can get pressure off the edge and stuff the run. He had a good combine to warrant a mid 1st round pick but i would rather get Reyes in a trade up in the 2nd.

[ABQCOWBOY]

A player that interests me that has not gotten a lot of attention is Malik Jackson. He played out of position at Tennessee because they really had nobody on D. I would bet that if he lost a few pounds he could be an interesting prospect at SOLB in a 34. If you added a few pounds the other way, I bet he could be a DE in a 34. He's a transfer from USC. He transfered to Tennessee when USC got nailed. He played sparingly while at USC but when he joined the Vols, he was moved to DT and he really isn't a DT IMO. He played well for Tennessee considering but I believe he's a guy that can be moved to either OLB or DE in a 34 and I think his a mid round pick. JMO

[baj1dallas]

Bang the drum Nate but unfortunately, it probably won't matter. The Cowboy Fan Base wants DeCastro. That may not be what the team is thinking but I doubt we will change the collective minds of the Fan Base. I think most are set on DeCastro or Bust mode.

Most here but not your average fan in Dallas.

[SilverStarCowboy]

I would pass on DeCastro on a good pass rusher like Ingram, Von Miller, Aldon Smith, or Kerrigan. But people look at stats and combine numbers and think reaching for a guy like Mercilus at 14 is just as good when they never seen him play and a can clearly see his game doesn't translate to a 3-4 SOLB. Andre Branch translate better than Mercilus does but I wouldn't take him over DeCastro. Branch and Mercilus isn't better than Spencer.

The only thing is, is that this draft doesn;t have a 3-4 DE or OLB pass rushers like last years draft had. I would take a JJ Watt over Decastro. But I don't see a Watt, Miller, or Kerrigan in this draft. Ingram is the closest one but he will go top 12.

Compare the Combine Numbers to Kerrigan, Smith and Miller, this years DLinmen were off the charts as well. More than ever.

[supercowboy8]

Compare the Combine Numbers to Kerrigan, Smith and Miller, this years DLinmen were off the charts as well. More than ever.

Yeah because combine numbers tells all. Go ahead and compare, and I want to see. Kerrigan was a better player and played the run great, has fluid hips, and great lateral movement. Miller and smith were top 7 picks. Ingram is the only one this year that will be picked top 10.

But that's my point people get lost in combine numbers

[CaptainAmerica]

Donta Hightower is a terrific pass rusher. He might not be well known for it because he was so versatile and played so many other roles on that D.

But when called upon to put his hand down and rush the passer he was a terror. Better natural pass rusher than Upshaw. He had the key sack in the BCS Championship game that sealed the win. In the Tennessee game this past season he single handledly destroyed the UT QB all night long.

[RS12]

You find me a sure fire 10-12 sack a year guy at 14 and I'm all over it. Unfortunately all I see is a bunch 5-7 sack a year guys. Already seen that movie.

[RS12]

A player that interests me that has not gotten a lot of attention is Malik Jackson. He played out of position at Tennessee because they really had nobody on D. I would bet that if he lost a few pounds he could be an interesting prospect at SOLB in a 34. If you added a few pounds the other way, I bet he could be a DE in a 34. He's a transfer from USC. He transfered to Tennessee when USC got nailed. He played sparingly while at USC but when he joined the Vols, he was moved to DT and he really isn't a DT IMO. He played well for Tennessee considering but I believe he's a guy that can be moved to either OLB or DE in a 34 and I think his a mid round pick. JMO

Him or Bequette. I think they will both be there at 45.

[honyock]

Donta Hightower is a terrific pass rusher. He might not be well known for it because he was so versatile and played so many other roles on that D.

But when called upon to put his hand down and rush the passer he was a terror. Better natural pass rusher than Upshaw. He had the key sack in the BCS Championship game that sealed the win. In the Tennessee game this past season he single handledly destroyed the UT QB all night long.

I was wondering when someone would mention one of the two ILB's who might be available at 14. Especially if DeCastro is gone, Kuechly might be BPA, Hightower might not be too far away from BPA, AND fill a position of need. Either would be a big upgrade to the front seven.

I know, ILB has been addressed at #2 the past two drafts. But I'm intrigued at the idea of having say, Hightower, Carter and Lee on the field at the same time in 4-3 sets, and having Hightower be a passrusher at times.

I've had the impression that except for the Lee-love expressed here, there is a general shoulder-shrug to the value of ILB's in a 3-4. I won't be surprised at all to see us take one of the top two ILB's at #14, or maybe Hightower in a small trade-down.

[realtick]

I would pass on DeCastro on a good pass rusher like Ingram, Von Miller, Aldon Smith, or Kerrigan. But people look at stats and combine numbers and think reaching for a guy like Mercilus at 14 is just as good when they never seen him play and a can clearly see his game doesn't translate to a 3-4 SOLB. Andre Branch translate better than Mercilus does but I wouldn't take him over DeCastro. Branch and Mercilus isn't better than Spencer.

The only thing is, is that this draft doesn;t have a 3-4 DE or OLB pass rushers like last years draft had. I would take a JJ Watt over Decastro. But I don't see a Watt, Miller, or Kerrigan in this draft. Ingram is the closest one but he will go top 12.

So are you still claiming Ingram "blew up" the combine? And are you seriously putting Ingram in Von Miller and Smith's class as a pass rusher?

[CaptainAmerica]

I was wondering when someone would mention one of the two ILB's who might be available at 14. Especially if DeCastro is gone, Kuechly might be BPA, Hightower might not be too far away from BPA, AND fill a position of need. Either would be a big upgrade to the front seven.

I know, ILB has been addressed at #2 the past two drafts. But I'm intrigued at the idea of having say, Hightower, Carter and Lee on the field at the same time in 4-3 sets, and having Hightower be a passrusher at times.

I've had the impression that except for the Lee-love expressed here, there is a general shoulder-shrug to the value of ILB's in a 3-4. I won't be surprised at all to see us take one of the top two ILB's at #14, or maybe Hightower in a small trade-down.

What I like about Hightower is the versatility he brings. He literally can play all the LBer positions and also line up as a hand in the dirt DE and rush the passer on 3rd downs.

You get a lot of player that can fill many roles when you get him. Not to mention he is a high character, high motor, leader who loves to play the game.

[honyock]

What I like about Hightower is the versatility he brings. He literally can play all the LBer positions and also line up as a hand in the dirt DE and rush the passer on 3rd downs.

You get a lot of player that can fill many roles when you get him. Not to mention he is a high character, high motor, leader who loves to play the game.

Yeah, that's why I'm thinking they might be at least considering him. He seems to fit the profile they're looking for.

I guess FA will tell the tale on that. If they sign someone like Dan Connor in FA, that probably takes Hightower and Kuechly off the board.

[supercowboy8]

What I like about Hightower is the versatility he brings. He literally can play all the LBer positions and also line up as a hand in the dirt DE and rush the passer on 3rd downs.

You get a lot of player that can fill many roles when you get him. Not to mention he is a high character, high motor, leader who loves to play the game.

Hightower i really like, he's one of my top 5 for the 14th spot but I don't think he such a great pass rusher to be picked a head of decastro.

[BAT]

Thank God for Nate. At least his expertise cannot be drowned out by the DeCastro at all costs crowd.

Even a former guard understands where the real need lies. Especially with the first pick.

[Zaxor]

preach it brother nate... What is the difference between an elite guard and a good guard and would that difference be enough to remove your team from a shot at a good player at a need postion... Besides the Cowboys have addressed the guard position with Arkin/Nagy/Kowolski they liked them enough to go into the season with them as rookies and they did a pretty good job considering the circumstances last year it took Nate I think 5 years to become a very good OLineman..Center needs some competition though I am not ready to throw Costa on the scrap heap...you have nobody at corner (look at Jenkins pictures...he might not be ready) that leaves you Scandrick and who playing corner...next you have no ILB depth let alone not knowing if Carter can or can't though I am firmly in his corner...the OLB Ware and....???, the DL (sheesh) Hatcher is made of glass and can't be counted on...Spears you all know the story with him...this is the 3rd season I believe in a row that Jay had to have surgery after the season...Lissemore from what I hear may be a solid rotation guy perhaps also Brett...they have got to get a guy that can be a bit dynamic on this dline...Safety every year we talk about Safety I am tired of talking about Safety.

In essence what I am saying is this defense needs just about a complete overhaul and spending more draft picks on the guard position after spending 2 last year is throwing away precious resources

[SkinsandTerps]

I have to agree with him.

You can turn a solid RT into an elite guard.

Defensive pass rushers make the secondary better and vice versa obviously.

[jjktkk]

preach it brother nate... What is the difference between an elite guard and a good guard and would that difference be enough to remove your team from a shot at a good player at a need postion... Besides the Cowboys have addressed the guard position with Arkin/Nagy/Kowolski they liked them enough to go into the season with them as rookies and they did a pretty good job considering the circumstances last year it took Nate I think 5 years to become a very good OLineman..Center needs some competition though I am not ready to throw Costa on the scrap heap...you have nobody at corner (look at Jenkins pictures...he might not be ready) that leaves you Scandrick and who playing corner...next you have no ILB depth let alone not knowing if Carter can or can't though I am firmly in his corner...the OLB Ware and....???, the DL (sheesh) Hatcher is made of glass and can't be counted on...Spears you all know the story with him...this is the 3rd season I believe in a row that Jay had to have surgery after the season...Lissemore from what I hear may be a solid rotation guy perhaps also Brett...they have got to get a guy that can be a bit dynamic on this dline...Safety every year we talk about Safety I am tired of talking about Safety.

In essence what I am saying is this defense needs just about a complete overhaul and spending more draft picks on the guard position after spending 2 last year is throwing away precious resources

Thats not to say you can't draft a G, and, or, a C in ltr. rounds.

[durrrr]

Thank God for Nate. At least his expertise cannot be drowned out by the DeCastro at all costs crowd.

Even a former guard understands where the real need lies. Especially with the first pick.

His expertise? He's not a former GM or scout. He might know the game, but that doesn't mean he knows how to put together a team.

How many times have we heard former NFL players say absurd things on ESPN or NFL Network or other media outlets? I'm not even saying Nate's wrong, but let's not act like it's gospel, either.

[realtick]

His expertise? He's not a former GM or scout. He might know the game, but that doesn't mean he knows how to put together a team.

How many times have we heard former NFL players say absurd things on ESPN or NFL Network or other media outlets? I'm not even saying Nate's wrong, but let's not act like it's gospel, either.

Spot on.

Didn't we hear Drew Pearson say Tony Romo couldn't be a leader with his hat backwards (or something to that effect)?

[VACowboy]

His expertise? He's not a former GM or scout. He might know the game, but that doesn't mean he knows how to put together a team.

How many times have we heard former NFL players say absurd things on ESPN or NFL Network or other media outlets? I'm not even saying Nate's wrong, but let's not act like it's gospel, either.

I'll wait to see what Matt Millen has to say. :laugh1:

[burmafrd]

Thank God for Nate. At least his expertise cannot be drowned out by the DeCastro at all costs crowd.

Even a former guard understands where the real need lies. Especially with the first pick.


yeah and Deion was so smart about CBs.

Fail.

[fanfromvirginia]

I can honestly say I never go into a draft with only 1 option. DeCastro is just one of them. Frankly I don't get how anyone can go into a draft thinking 1 player or bust mind set.

Only issue I have had with some are those saying you shouldn’t take DeCastro.

As a founding member of the DeCastroista Revolution, I can tell you that this issue of DeCastro or Death comes up at the meetings all the time and has even led to fistfights in the hallways. It's such a shame because, if you stop and think about it, it's just a game and we're all fans of the same club.

Having said that, .... VIVA DECASTRO!

[Oh_Canada]

Thank God for Nate. At least his expertise cannot be drowned out by the DeCastro at all costs crowd.

Even a former guard understands where the real need lies. Especially with the first pick.


Yup...I'm starting to wonder how many pro-DeCastro people just want him because they have Romo in their fantasy league. We should be wanting someone who will blow Eli and Vick up once in awhile rather than watching them pick us apart every year because the main difference between these teams is the pass rush. Eagles average oline, Giants average oline....Eagles ferocious pass rush, Giants even better, Cowboys average thanks to mostly one guy, otherwise it would be embarrasing.

[BraveHeartFan]

Bang the drum Nate but unfortunately, it probably won't matter. The Cowboy Fan Base wants DeCastro. That may not be what the team is thinking but I doubt we will change the collective minds of the Fan Base. I think most are set on DeCastro or Bust mode.


I'm one who definately wants him. I've said that all along.

But I've also said all along that if they improve the center spot and get someone like Grubbs or something that I'd be fine with not getting DeCastro and instead using the draft for mostly defense.


Grubbs, Wells/Myers, and Carr in FA would be huge, IMO, and would allow the Cowboys to focus on D-Line and LB pressure for the D while still adding some depth at the O-line and secondary positions.

I'd be fine with something like that if it were at all possible. I'm not a cap genius so I'm not sure what kind of creative things they can do to get it all done but if theres a way to get it done like that i'd be fine with that.

[fanfromvirginia]

I don't want to speak for other DeCastroistas, but my support for the guy is not in fact unconditional. There are several players I really like and circumstances under which I'd be okay if we passed on the guy. If, for example, we grabbed Nicks in FA and had plans to draft an OC in the draft, I'd support taking somebody else. If they grabbed an OC in FA and then just straight up chose somebody else on my list -- Poe especially -- over DeCastro, I wouldn't be that upset. And if they really think Arkin and Nagy and the rest of the motley crew can handle it and they truly believe that one of these pass rushers is a blue chipper then l might grumble and pout for a few days but I would most certainly get over it.

It seems to me, though, right now at this time that the counter-revolutionaries are 100% drafting for need rather than BPA. My interest in DeCastro is founded first and foremost on the belief that he will likely be the BPA and at a position of need.

[Doomsday101]

As a founding member of the DeCastroista Revolution, I can tell you that this issue of DeCastro or Death comes up at the meetings all the time and has even led to fistfights in the hallways. It's such a shame because, if you stop and think about it, it's just a game and we're all fans of the same club.

Having said that, .... VIVA DECASTRO!

That is what happens when people have closed minds. I like DeCastro and would be more than happy to get a player of his caliber out of the draft. However there are some other good players out there and other options.

What I don't want is to reach or gamble on a 1st rd pick, if you are unsure about a guy don't take him this pick is way to important and hopefully the player coming out of the 1st rd is a player who we can continue to build for the long haul.

What bothers me is people treating the draft like FA, we need a pass rusher so lets gamble and take one. If the pass rushers in this draft are not grading out as high as in other season then don't do it.

[Aven8]

What some people in the Decastro camp are forgetting is the BPA approach. If Ingram, Poe, Hightower, and Kuelchy are there at 14 I'm not sure Decastro is the BPA out of that bunch.

[Doomsday101]

What some people in the Decastro camp are forgetting is the BPA approach. If Ingram, Poe, Hightower, and Kuelchy are there at 14 I'm not sure Decastro is the BPA out of that bunch.

It depends on how they grade out, Mayock for instance has DeCastro grading out higher at 92.5 while Ingram grade is a 90.5, Kuechly 91, Hightower 85.0 and Poe 89

Granted this is Mayock grades and I'm sure other teams will have different grades but when you say BPA DeCastro grades out with the best of them

[supercowboy8]

What some people in the Decastro camp are forgetting is the BPA approach. If Ingram, Poe, Hightower, and Kuelchy are there at 14 I'm not sure Decastro is the BPA out of that bunch.

depends on who's draft board your looking at.

Mine Ingram is the only one in front of DeCastro.
Wes Bunting big board DeCastro is #1 out of those 5.

[Doomsday101]

depends on who's draft board your looking at.

Mine Ingram is the only one in front of DeCastro.
Wes Bunting big board DeCastro is #1 out of those 5.

Funny in most years there would not be a G grading out this high and thus we would not be talking G at 14. DeCastro is a bit of an exception to the so called rule.

[supercowboy8]

Funny in most years there would not be a G grading out this high and thus we would not be talking G at 14. DeCastro is a bit of an exception to the so called rule.

right on, He is far and away better than Pouncey who went 15 last year. SO how is 14 a bad place to pick a better player at aposition of major need.

[Doomsday101]

right on, He is far and away better than Pouncey who went 15 last year. SO how is 14 a bad place to pick a better player at aposition of major need.

I agree. If there were DE/OLB grading out higher I would be singing their praises as our pick. There are some as you mentioned Ingram and I would not be unhappy with that pick. We may differ on Kirkpatrick but I would be happy with that pick. I would not be happy about dallas reaching for late 1st to 2rd picks with the 14 and that is what some of these so called pass rusher are

[Gaede]

right on, He is far and away better than Pouncey who went 15 last year. SO how is 14 a bad place to pick a better player at aposition of major need.

I agree he's a better player. BUT, Pouncey also plays center and guard. And he has a pro-bowler brother. That kind of versatility and family history really changes how a prospect is rated

[supercowboy8]

I agree he's a better player. BUT, Pouncey also plays center and guard. And he has a pro-bowler brother. That kind of versatility and family history really changes how a prospect is rated

DeCastro has been said to be able to play center too.

[Sasquatch]

I agree. If there were DE/OLB grading out higher I would be singing their praises as our pick. There are some as you mentioned Ingram and I would not be unhappy with that pick. We may differ on Kirkpatrick but I would be happy with that pick. I would not be happy about dallas reaching for late 1st to 2rd picks with the 14 and that is what some of these so called pass rusher are

That about sums it up for me as well. Now, if this were last year's draft, I think Nate's point would be a little more compelling.

[cowboysooner]

right on, He is far and away better than Pouncey who went 15 last year. SO how is 14 a bad place to pick a better player at aposition of major need.



Drafting Pouncey at 15, based on last year, was a mistake. Drafting Pouncey #1 at 18 was better because he was the better player and a proven elite center or guard.

[ABQCOWBOY]

That about sums it up for me as well. Now, if this were last year's draft, I think Nate's point would be a little more compelling.

Hey Sas,

How have you been? Haven't spoken with you in awhile. Hope all things are good in your world.

You actually bring up a good point here. Last year, most fans believed that Smith was the highest rated, best player on the board for the Cowboys and he probably was at the time we picked but most also thought that Smith was rated higher then Aldon Smith as well. This is where it is interesting to me. It has been reported that had Aldon Smith been on the board, the Cowboys would have taken him. This suggests to me that the way the Cowboys are rating players may not necessarily be in line with what the majority of our Fans or even other scouting services use as criteria for ranking players.

I just get the feeling that Interior OL is not where the team is looking in the 1st round.

JMO

[ABQCOWBOY]

right on, He is far and away better than Pouncey who went 15 last year. SO how is 14 a bad place to pick a better player at aposition of major need.

I would not be so quick to come to this conclusion. I think that part of why Pouncey went as high as he did is because he had a twin in the league who was already a Pro Bowl player. I think that contributed to how and why Mike Pouncey went as high as he did. He didn't test better then Maurkice Pouncey did and he was not as strong a player as Maurkice was, coming out of Florida. I think you have to take that into consideration as well.

[Sasquatch]

Hey Sas,

How have you been? Haven't spoken with you in awhile. Hope all things are good in your world.

You actually bring up a good point here. Last year, most fans believed that Smith was the highest rated, best player on the board for the Cowboys and he probably was at the time we picked but most also thought that Smith was rated higher then Aldon Smith as well. This is where it is interesting to me. It has been reported that had Aldon Smith been on the board, the Cowboys would have taken him. This suggests to me that the way the Cowboys are rating players may not necessarily be in line with what the majority of our Fans or even other scouting services use as criteria for ranking players.

I just get the feeling that Interior OL is not where the team is looking in the 1st round.

JMO

Good, good, the little fella keeps me very busy.

I'm in the DeCastro crowd at 14, although I wouldn't be surprised by a trade down even if DeCastro is there.

[Deep_Freeze]

Hey Sas,

How have you been? Haven't spoken with you in awhile. Hope all things are good in your world.

You actually bring up a good point here. Last year, most fans believed that Smith was the highest rated, best player on the board for the Cowboys and he probably was at the time we picked but most also thought that Smith was rated higher then Aldon Smith as well. This is where it is interesting to me. It has been reported that had Aldon Smith been on the board, the Cowboys would have taken him. This suggests to me that the way the Cowboys are rating players may not necessarily be in line with what the majority of our Fans or even other scouting services use as criteria for ranking players.

I just get the feeling that Interior OL is not where the team is looking in the 1st round.

JMO

True, while I see the reason why we would take DeCastro, I will be surprised if Jerry actually makes the pick. For Jerry to draft a franchise LT in Tyron is alot different than taking a guard that high.

As a former guard himself, seems like Jerry would think about it, but it also would seem he would know a lil about the position. Jerry gets made fun of alot, but he did win a National Championship and was a co-captain of the Hogs playing guard, so he might know a lil about it.

No matter what is said here, we do have to go by history, and that's definitely not in favor of us being the first team that takes a guard higher than any other team has in the 21st century.

[realtick]

My gosh, I've never seen the 14th pick in the 1st round treated as if it was a Top 3 pick more in my life...

[Deep_Freeze]

My gosh, I've never seen the 14th pick in the 1st round treated as if it was a Top 3 pick more in my life...

Apparently you weren't around for the Bobby Carpenter vs. Manny Lawson threads.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Good, good, the little fella keeps me very busy.

I'm in the DeCastro crowd at 14, although I wouldn't be surprised by a trade down even if DeCastro is there.

I bet he is but that's good.

I would not lose any sleep if we took DeCastro in the 1st roound but I don't know. I just don't get the feeling that this is what the team is looking at. I guess we'll know soon enough.

[CATCH17]

Just heard him discussing on his show Coop and Nate. He said if we get both Carr and Finngen and if we don't add anything to the Dline it won't matter.

He said that an average DB can hold there guy for around 2.5 seconds. If we have no pressure Deion himself couldn't hold that long.

JJT was sitting in for Coop and said you don't think we should get Finnegen, or Carr, and he said it won't matter if we don't get more pass rushers.

JJT then asked Nate what about going Decastro, and he said forget the guards. Get a stout Center. A Center that can call the defense and direct everything. That will enable Tony to step up.

I thought it was interesting that a guard, and somebody that has been harping on getting Olineman for yrs said all of this. I agree with him. My bet is hopefully the Cowboys do to.


I agree with Nate and although I think our secondary is really bad I think our pass rush is even worse.


Giving Eli and Vick all day to throw put us at 0-4 against the Giants and Eagles.

[Doomsday101]

I agree with Nate and although I think our secondary is really bad I think our pass rush is even worse.


Giving Eli and Vick all day to throw put us at 0-4 against the Giants and Eagles.

Great if there is one they feel good about then go for it but doing this in the past and ending up with Ekuban, Pittman and Carver all in the name of getting a pass rusher killed us. If guys have to big of a question mark don't do it just for the sake of claiming we got a pass rusher.

[CATCH17]

I bet he is but that's good.

I would not lose any sleep if we took DeCastro in the 1st roound but I don't know. I just don't get the feeling that this is what the team is looking at. I guess we'll know soon enough.


Me too.

I think it's so much harder to find a good pass rush guy later in the draft than it is a guard.


I like Decastro but i'll take someone who can give me 11 sacks consistently over him and pick up a solid guard in FA.

[Doomsday101]

Me too.

I think it's so much harder to find a good pass rush guy later in the draft than it is a guard.


I like Decastro but i'll take someone who can give me 11 sacks consistently over him and pick up a solid guard in FA.

and who would that be. People are being very generic on this. I want to guy who can give me 15 sacks a season great but then who is that guy? Looking at the prospect I don't see that. I see some good guys who may develop but not many fitting in at the 14th pick.

[CATCH17]

Great if there is one they feel good about then go for it but doing this in the past and ending up with Ekuban, Pittman and Carver all in the name of getting a pass rusher killed us. If guys have to big of a question mark don't do it just for the sake of claiming we got a pass rusher.

You can throw Spencer in there as well.


I agree with you BTW but I think there is some well qualified guys.

For me personally I would take a Aldon Smith over a Carl Nicks even though I realise Nicks is top 2 or 3 at his position.

[CATCH17]

and who would that be. People are being very generic on this. I want to guy who can give me 15 sacks a season great but then who is that guy? Looking at the prospect I don't see that. I see some good guys who may develop but not many fitting in at the 14th pick.

You go through teams rosters and I dont think you're going to find very many 1st round guards.

[Doomsday101]

You can throw Spencer in there as well.


I agree with you BTW but I think there is some well qualified guys.

For me personally I would take a Aldon Smith over a Carl Nicks even though I realise Nicks is top 2 or 3 at his position.

Maybe so in regards to Spencer. He is a decent player who has not lived up to the high expectations but I would at least say he has been a good player. Not sure I would say that about some of the other we have taken.

When Dallas took Ware there was pretty much a consensus out there he was a stud player and we took him.

I don't see that clear cut guy in this draft and to grab a guy at 14 all in the name of hoping to get sacks in my view is a mistake.

To me the nightmare will be not only getting a guy who can't produce better than Spencer would be throwing the 14 pick away in the process

Ingram or Coples I could go along with

[Doomsday101]

You go through teams rosters and I dont think you're going to find very many 1st round guards.

Your right there are not many, SF did it with the 17th overall and it was a big help to them. They have more things they need to do on offense but with the 17th pick they took Iupati and that was right after they took OT Anthony Davis with the 11th pick. That pays off big time as they continue to build that team.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Great if there is one they feel good about then go for it but doing this in the past and ending up with Ekuban, Pittman and Carver all in the name of getting a pass rusher killed us. If guys have to big of a question mark don't do it just for the sake of claiming we got a pass rusher.

Ekuban, Pittman and Carver were all under different HCs. I beleive Pittman and Carver were under Switzer and Ekuban was under Gailey. I don't think that Red would allow that kind of thing to happen under his watch.

[ABQCOWBOY]

and who would that be. People are being very generic on this. I want to guy who can give me 15 sacks a season great but then who is that guy? Looking at the prospect I don't see that. I see some good guys who may develop but not many fitting in at the 14th pick.

It doesn't matter who we think it is. It matters who the team sees as that player.

[Doomsday101]

It doesn't matter who we think it is. It matters who the team sees as that player.

And who the team sees matters to the fans. I'm not going to say that we will all be in agreement on draft day I'm sure we will have mixed emotions though out the board. In the end whether I agree with the pick or not I will support that player and hope he does as advertised.

But since this forum is to give views and opinion I'll just say this is not a great class to find a pass rusher even some of the top prospect like Ingram comes with doubt in terms of pure rushing skills.

As much as I would like to see a better pass rush I do not want to see us pass up better prospect at other positions just because they felt a need to address the pass rush

[CATCH17]

Your right there are not many, SF did it with the 17th overall and it was a big help to them. They have more things they need to do on offense but with the 17th pick they took Iupati and that was right after they took OT Anthony Davis with the 11th pick. That pays off big time as they continue to build that team.

What pick did the Giants do it with?

Seems like they spend all their high picks and money on guys on the dline.

[Doomsday101]

What pick did the Giants do it with?

Seems like they spend all their high picks and money on guys on the dline.

They spend on secondary as well WR and Dallas has as well.

I don't think you take a position just based on the pick you pick the player with the most talent. If a guy like Ware was sitting at 14 I take him but I don't see that player in this draft. Sometimes drafts are not overly strong in a particular position. Not so say there will be no pass rushers out of this draft but it seems to be more of a hit or miss than in other drafts.

[Gaede]

If a guy like Ware was sitting at 14 I take him but I don't see that player in this draft. .

Ware was a mid second rounder until 2 weeks before the draft. He was too small. Competition wasn't strong enough. Workout warrior. All that crap. Not worth the risk at our first pick, many said.

The draft frequently exposes our own opinions as offbase, inaccurate and quite often, the result of group think.

[Deep_Freeze]

When Dallas took Ware there was pretty much a consensus out there he was a stud player and we took him.

They spend on secondary as well WR and Dallas has as well.

I don't think you take a position just based on the pick you pick the player with the most talent. If a guy like Ware was sitting at 14 I take him but I don't see that player in this draft. Sometimes drafts are not overly strong in a particular position. Not so say there will be no pass rushers out of this draft but it seems to be more of a hit or miss than in other drafts.

I do have to add that hindsight is always 20/20. Ware was doubted just as much as any pick we have had here, only have to go back to the posts to see it. Some of the same things we see about the picks now was said about Ware.

Even with Aldon, he didn't have off the charts measurables, and there wasn't people jumping on his wagon til when............when he actually performed well, and now everyone knnnnnew he was good.

The point is, pass rushers bust. And since noone on this board has a crystal ball, noone knows who will be good and who won't. It is a chance you take, and if you fail, you try again. What I won't accept is giving up.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Maybe so in regards to Spencer. He is a decent player who has not lived up to the high expectations but I would at least say he has been a good player. Not sure I would say that about some of the other we have taken.

When Dallas took Ware there was pretty much a consensus out there he was a stud player and we took him.

I don't see that clear cut guy in this draft and to grab a guy at 14 all in the name of hoping to get sacks in my view is a mistake.

To me the nightmare will be not only getting a guy who can't produce better than Spencer would be throwing the 14 pick away in the process

Ingram or Coples I could go along with

The position may not be OLB. It could easily be CB or DE or NT. Any of those positions could be considerations as well.

[Doomsday101]

The position may not be OLB. It could easily be CB or DE or NT. Any of those positions could be considerations as well.

I agree but the thread pertained to pass rusher specifically that is all I was addressing. Cowboys could chose a CB,OLB,DE or even an OG

All I have advocated is getting the best player you can and one who also can help fill a need but don’t reach for a guy just for the need of a pass rusher.


Draft picks are not just about next year, this is where you hope to find long term player to keep the preverbal window open longer. You miss on 14 and it is going to hurt

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree but the thread pertained to pass rusher specifically that is all I was addressing. Cowboys could chose a CB,OLB,DE or even an OG

All I have advocated is getting the best player you can and one who also can help fill a need but don’t reach for a guy just for the need of a pass rusher.


Draft picks are not just about next year, this is where you hope to find long term player to keep the preverbal window open longer. You miss on 14 and it is going to hurt

Actually, it was about addressing Center, getting help in the pass rush and considering Guard later in the draft. I hear what you are saying Dooms, I just don't agree that there are no pass rushing options in this draft. I think there probably are, just like any other draft. In the end, it doesn't really matter. The Cowboys have their board and it may have DeCastro at the top of it or there may be a couple of other players there. Who knows?

[InmanRoshi]

The point is, pass rushers bust. And since noone on this board has a crystal ball, noone knows who will be good and who won't. It is a chance you take, and if you fail, you try again. What I won't accept is giving up.

It's not like offensive guards taken high in the first round have that great of a track record either. People just assume if an offensive guard is taken with a Top 15 pick then he must be some money in the bank future HOFer mega blue chipper. The truth is that NFL GMs have only pulled the trigger on an offensive guard with a Top 15 pick four times in the last 25 years. David Cadigan in 1987. Andy Heck in 1989. Ruben Brown in 1995. Chris Naeole in 1997. Ruben Brown was the only future Pro Bowler. Heck bounced around the league as a middle of the round journey man. Cadigan and Neaole were outright busts.

[Doomsday101]

Actually, it was about addressing Center, getting help in the pass rush and considering Guard later in the draft. I hear what you are saying Dooms, I just don't agree that there are no pass rushing options in this draft. I think there probably are, just like any other draft. In the end, it doesn't really matter. The Cowboys have their board and it may have DeCastro at the top of it or there may be a couple of other players there. Who knows?

There is option at pass rushing there is not much consensus in terms of big time pass rushers. Not saying one of these guys will be become a very good player just that the hit or miss seems to be a bigger factor than in past drafts.

In the end nothing any of us say is going to determine who the Cowboys pick as you said they will pick who they like and once they do you will get the normal mixed reaction from great to worst pick ever. In the meantime people are just giving the views and hopes to what will take place in the draft.

[CATCH17]

I agree but the thread pertained to pass rusher specifically that is all I was addressing. Cowboys could chose a CB,OLB,DE or even an OG

All I have advocated is getting the best player you can and one who also can help fill a need but don’t reach for a guy just for the need of a pass rusher.


Draft picks are not just about next year, this is where you hope to find long term player to keep the preverbal window open longer. You miss on 14 and it is going to hurt

Knowing the little you know about Aldon Smith and David Decastro who would you take?


There are 2 or 3 guys that could be another Aldon Smith. Not to mention there are some dynamic defensive players in this draft that can play all over your front 7.

[Doomsday101]

Knowing the little you know about Aldon Smith and David Decastro who would you take?


There are 2 or 3 guys that could be another Aldon Smith. Not to mention there are some dynamic defensive players in this draft that can play all over your front 7.

I have actually watched a lot of Aldon Smith since I watch a lot of Big 12 football. I have seen many of the Missouri games.

I think the guy is a pure rusher and right now is being used as a role player in pass rushing situations. I'm sure they will want him to add more strenght to be more of an every down guy.

As for who I would have taken chance are Smith but then he was a 7th over all pick.

In terms of there are 2 or 3 guys that could be another Aldon Smith maybe or they could be the next Spencer. We got one of those.

[realtick]

It's not like offensive guards taken high in the first round have that great of a track record either. People just assume if an offensive guard is taken with a Top 15 pick then he must be some money in the bank future HOFer mega blue chipper. The truth is that NFL GMs have only pulled the trigger on an offensive guard with a Top 15 pick four times in the last 25 years. David Cadigan in 1987. Andy Heck in 1989. Ruben Brown in 1995. Chris Naeole in 1997. Ruben Brown was the only future Pro Bowler. Heck bounced around the league as a middle of the round journey man. Cadigan and Neaole were outright busts.

Chris Naoele was an "outright bust?"

He played 13 NFL seasons and started 150 of the 154 games he played for just two teams.

Beyond that, what does David Cadigan have to do with David DeCastro?

[Deep_Freeze]

It's not like offensive guards taken high in the first round have that great of a track record either. People just assume if an offensive guard is taken with a Top 15 pick then he must be some money in the bank future HOFer mega blue chipper. The truth is that NFL GMs have only pulled the trigger on an offensive guard with a Top 15 pick four times in the last 25 years. David Cadigan in 1987. Andy Heck in 1989. Ruben Brown in 1995. Chris Naeole in 1997. Ruben Brown was the only future Pro Bowler. Heck bounced around the league as a middle of the round journey man. Cadigan and Neaole were outright busts.

Yeah its about time that we all admit that we don't know as much as we think about these guys, its not like we know them or how they will react once they become millionaires. Anyone can say the right things to get the money, and not follow it up with results.

Sure everyone can have their favorites based off of their own feelings about a player, but at the end of the day we don't know what will happen with whoever is picked. You gotta love when people take credit for being behind some guy from the beginning, like they had inside info and a crystal ball.

Its fun to talk about, but the bottom line is any player we are talking about could be a boom or a bust. There are 5 star athletes from high school, who don't even get to this level, meanwhile you got 2 stars getting drafted high. Its a crap shoot, but I will say, I'm willing to accept more risk if the reward is someone truly great.

[InmanRoshi]

Chris Naoele was an "outright bust?"

He played 13 NFL seasons and started 150 of the 154 games he played for just two teams.

Beyond that, what does David Cadigan have to do with David DeCastro?

Alright, not outright bust. Middle of the road starter who was nothing special. Is that worth taking a guard with a Top 15 pick for? Bobby Carpenter is moving into his 8th year in the NFL with no signs of slowing down, does that suddenly make him a good pick for the 18th pick in the draft?

What does David Cadigan do with David DeCastro? If DeCastro is picked with a Top 15 pick he'll join Cadigan in a very small group of 5 guards who have been selected with Top 15 picks in the last twenty five years (with mixed results). Goose/Nate/Brandt etc. are entirely correct ...... NFL GMs really, really, really, really hate using a Top 15 picks on offensive guards.

[imbatman]

Just some additional information. If you were to look at a team's top 4 draft picks each season as the franchise's most valued currency in building a team, it is pretty interesting how the Cowboys have spent theirs over the past nine seasons.

At HB, the Cowboys have spent a first, a second, a third and two fourths at filling the position.

At WR, if you factor in Roy Williams, the Cowboys have spent two firsts, a third and two fourths.

At TE, the Cowboys have spent two seconds and a third.

Now compare that to the interior line. Over the last nine seasons, the Cowboys have spent one third and one fourth at OG and one second, all the way back in 2003, at C. A total of one third, one fourth and one second in filling three positions that are on the field almost the entire time the team is on offense. A lot of snaps.

Jumping over to defense, the Cowboys have already spent three number ones and a fourth on OLB in only the last 7 years. This is similar, as some have pointed out, to when the Cowboys spent four top draft picks over the course of six years chasing DEs (Carver, Pittman, Ellis, Ekuban).

On the defensive line, the Cowboys have spent one first, one third and one fourth. This includes zero nose tackles.

Don't know what all of it means, necessarily, but I found it interesting. This doesn't measure which picks worked and which picks did not, but it looks at where the team invested their most valued picks.

[Doomsday101]

Alright, not outright bust. Middle of the road starter who was nothing special. Is that worth taking a guard with a Top 15 pick for? Bobby Carpenter is moving into his 8th year in the NFL with no signs of slowing down, does that suddenly make him a good pick for the 18th pick in the draft?

What does David Cadigan do with David DeCastro? If DeCastro is picked with a Top 15 pick he'll join Cadigan in a very small group of 5 guards who have been selected with Top 15 picks in the last twenty five years (with mixed results). Goose/Nate/Brandt etc. are entirely correct ...... NFL GMs really, really, really, really hate using a Top 15 picks on offensive guards.

if it were the 17th pick would it make it better? I would not pass on a guy over 3 or 4 spots.

[InmanRoshi]

if it were the 17th pick would it make it better? I would not pass on a guy over 3 or 4 spots.

Those 3 spots equate to a 3rd round pick worth of value if you traded down. You may think a 3rd round pick is meaningless, but I don't.

[realtick]

Alright, not outright bust. Middle of the road starter who was nothing special. Is that worth taking a guard with a Top 15 pick for? Bobby Carpenter is moving into his 8th year in the NFL with no signs of slowing down, does that suddenly make him a good pick for the 18th pick in the draft?

Lol, you're the one loosely applying the term "bust." Starting 150 out of 154 games in a 12 year career on just two teams is not in any way shape, form or fashion a "bust."

Dragging up Bob Carpenter doesn't apply either.

Carpenter has started just 10 games out of 89. He's on his fourth NFL team now and is not gauranteed a roster spot coming up this season.

What does David Cadigan do with David DeCastro? If DeCastro is picked with a Top 15 pick he'll join Cadigan in a very small group of 5 guards who have been selected with Top 15 picks in the last twenty five years (with mixed results). Goose/Nate/Brandt etc. are entirely correct ...... NFL GMs really, really, really, really hate using a Top 15 picks on offensive guards.

Okay, so he may join a "small group."

That has absolutely no predictive power to say what he'll be like as a player in the NFL. Cadigan's "failure" as a player has absolutely nothing to do with what type a player DeCastro is today.

BTW, even using Cadigan as one of your examples is bunk. Cadigan was a All-American OT at USC and was drafted as such by the Jets. So is using Andy Heck, who was an offensive tackle coming out of Notre Dame and was drafted as such. So really, your argument boils down to you simply not being comfortable based on NFL Draft history of taking a OG higher than #15. That's fine, but it's not a persuasive argument.

Further, I see you keep propping up Goose Gosselin on this issue. However, you fail to mention Goose also believes DeCastro walks in as a starter as a rookie and will be a Pro Bowler his second season. Goose also states picking DeCastro would "be a good safe pick." Funny you don't mention that.

Even funnier, Gosselin's article is titled: Why David DeCastro should - and shouldn't - be Cowboys' pick

Yet, you've interpolated the article and effectively are saying Goose is against taking DeCastro at #14.

C'mon maaayne.

[28 Joker]

Thinking of DeCastro as "only a guard" is so narrow minded.

DeCastro and Glenn are interior offensive players.

DeCastro can snap the ball.

Glenn can kick out to RT in a pinch, and some teams think he can play OT.

Drafting in the offensive line is about as safe as you can get.

Drafting in the defensive line is about as risky as it gets.

The best players in round 1 are guards this year, not centers.

The Cowboys need 3 new interior offensive line players, so drafting DeCastro or Glenn is smart business.

A blue-chip player is a blue-chip player, and the Cowboys have 1 blue-chip player in their offensive line.

[Hoofbite]

Its interesting how when a team like the Saints or Patriots are playing and you're in the game thread all you can read is,

"If Romo had that type of protection...."

"If Dallas had that OL...."

Yet here the team is possibly in a position to build towards that type of protection and the opinion is very much split.

[Aven8]

Its interesting how when a team like the Saints or Patriots are playing and you're in the game thread all you can read is,





Yet here the team is possibly in a position to build towards that type of protection and the opinion is very much split.

It's only because when we are up by 12 with 5 minutes left and Eli drops back with 47 attempts and no sacks against do we feel this way. ;)

[jterrell]

Great if there is one they feel good about then go for it but doing this in the past and ending up with Ekuban, Pittman and Carver all in the name of getting a pass rusher killed us. If guys have to big of a question mark don't do it just for the sake of claiming we got a pass rusher.

Ekuban, Carver and Pittman were all Anthony Spencers. OK Carver was just a flat bust but the other guys were average NFL players and that's the DE you get at pick 20 or later. Pittman was a round 2 guy.

That's why you want to use high picks on pass rushers. Because they are really hard to find later in drafts.

But all that side, of course you are correct. Dallas has to value the player at 14. I am fine with Poe or Janoris Jenkins or Ingram because to me those are definitely top 14 players. And what'll suck is on draft day they'll all go by 10 probably with my general luck. DeCastro, Kirkpatrick, Glenn and Perry are in a second group for me where I'd trade back a few spots and get one of them.

[durrrr]

I agree with Nate and although I think our secondary is really bad I think our pass rush is even worse.


Giving Eli and Vick all day to throw put us at 0-4 against the Giants and Eagles.

Our secondary was absolutely worse than our pass rush last year. It's not even close to being debatable.

[28 Joker]

Show me Leonard Little at 14, and I'll take notice. Little was an explosive demon of a pass rusher at Tennessee, and despite his horrific off the field trouble with the Rams, he was a very good player for the Rams. Little had proven explosive pass rush ability at Tennessee, and his 28 career sacks for the Vols ranked 2nd to only Reggie White (in Tennessee history). Little was an explosive, fast wrecking ball, and he impacted the scoreboard on the field, including the 1997 SEC Championship Game.

In today's NFL, Little would never last until the 3rd round where the Steelers wanted to draft him. Little was the classic 34 OLB, and he would be ranked right up there in the top 10 to 15 picks of this draft.

Show me Leonard Little, and I'll listen.

[soccerbud]

Cowboys should draft the BPA at #14. And from all accounts, it seems like decastrano is once in a decade and a potential perenial All-star guard in the mold of steve hutchinson.

I rather have a player like that than a CB whose ceiling is a good but not great player.

[durrrr]

Thinking of DeCastro as "only a guard" is so narrow minded.

DeCastro and Glenn are interior offensive players.

DeCastro can snap the ball.

Glenn can kick out to RT in a pinch, and some teams think he can play OT.

Drafting in the offensive line is about as safe as you can get.

Drafting in the defensive line is about as risky as it gets.

The best players in round 1 are guards this year, not centers.

The Cowboys need 3 new interior offensive line players, so drafting DeCastro or Glenn is smart business.

A blue-chip player is a blue-chip player, and the Cowboys have 1 blue-chip player in their offensive line.

Well, it is and it isn't. He probably does have the versatility to play Center, but I have little doubt that he'd be a fixture at Guard, even if C is the bigger need.

I completely agree, though. DeCastro figures to be the best player available if he makes it to 14. While there may also be a pass rushing OLB or DE with high upside available, they also probably have a reasonably high bust rate, too. DeCastro on the other hand, as you said, is a true blue-chip player with a high floor and exceptionally high ceiling.

I'm not saying DeCastro has to be the pick at 14 if he's there, but he's probably the best pick, unless something surprising happens.

[Smith22]

If DeCastro is picked with a Top 15 pick he'll join Cadigan in a very small group of 5 guards who have been selected with Top 15 picks in the last twenty five years (with mixed results). Goose/Nate/Brandt etc. are entirely correct ...... NFL GMs really, really, really, really hate using a Top 15 picks on offensive guards.

Sounds about right. I would think GMs would be more willing to draft a guard that could also move out to RT. DeCastro is the safe pick IMO, but if we still have holes out CB/LB when the draft rolls around, I would go with Ingram/Kirkpatrick or best DL available if the value is right.

I'm thinking we can find a good CB prospect in rounds 2 (Gilmore/Boykin/Hosley) and 3 (Bentley/Hayward), so I would lean towards DL/LB in the first.

[Doomsday101]

Those 3 spots equate to a 3rd round pick worth of value if you traded down. You may think a 3rd round pick is meaningless, but I don't.

I don't think losing a 3rd rd is meaningless I also do not thik using a 14 a 3 spots early to get the best G in the draft is meaningless. You guys really like to reach. You have a view that is fine it is not the only view. Your way it not the only way. I know you like to think that but it is false. You want a pass rusher you can't name one you want just a generic pass rusher. :laugh2:

[Doomsday101]

Ekuban, Carver and Pittman were all Anthony Spencers. OK Carver was just a flat bust but the other guys were average NFL players and that's the DE you get at pick 20 or later. Pittman was a round 2 guy.

That's why you want to use high picks on pass rushers. Because they are really hard to find later in drafts.

But all that side, of course you are correct. Dallas has to value the player at 14. I am fine with Poe or Janoris Jenkins or Ingram because to me those are definitely top 14 players. And what'll suck is on draft day they'll all go by 10 probably with my general luck. DeCastro, Kirkpatrick, Glenn and Perry are in a second group for me where I'd trade back a few spots and get one of them.

Yoyu use high picks on player who are worth a high pick. You don't go OLB because you want a pass rush you don't go DE because you want a pass rush. You choose a player who you are certain of at least the best of your ability. When we selected Ware people knew he was a pure pass rusher. Why is DeCastro name ranked so high? because people feel he is that good. As for Jenkins, given his past he is a risk and while risk can pan out, 14 is high for a guy with his background and history. Hell if Florida is willing to kick you off the team that says a lot given some of the players who have gone through that program. Ingram I like, Kickpatrick I like and would be happy with either. Only place we seem do differ in DeCastro

[cowboysooner]

Ekuban, Carver and Pittman were all Anthony Spencers. OK Carver was just a flat bust but the other guys were average NFL players and that's the DE you get at pick 20 or later. Pittman was a round 2 guy.

That's why you want to use high picks on pass rushers. Because they are really hard to find later in drafts.

But all that side, of course you are correct. Dallas has to value the player at 14. I am fine with Poe or Janoris Jenkins or Ingram because to me those are definitely top 14 players. And what'll suck is on draft day they'll all go by 10 probably with my general luck. DeCastro, Kirkpatrick, Glenn and Perry are in a second group for me where I'd trade back a few spots and get one of them.
In the 2011 pro bowl:
5 of 6 pass rushing outside linebackers are drafted in the first round. They were taken at 10, 20, 26, 11 and 2.

5 of 8 defensive ends are first rounders. They were taken at 10, 7, 27, 2 and 15.

5 of the 8 interior d linemen were 1st rounders. They were taken 6, 13, 21, 4 and 9.

Total 15 of 22 or 68% were 1st rounders.


Of the 7 that were not first rounders, 2 had rare measurables but questions about motor or production Geno Atkins and Solai. 2 had rare college sack totals Jared Allen and Dummerville. 2 were BCS school late picks with one excellent trait Ratliff (quickness) and Antonio Smith (super long arms). 1 was created by chemistry or improved remarkably from age 22 to 26 (Harrison).

None were found in the 2nd or 3rd round.

[juck]

I agree. We need a center. Get that dude from Houston or Scott Wells.

[jterrell]

Yoyu use high picks on player who are worth a high pick. You don't go OLB because you want a pass rush you don't go DE because you want a pass rush. You choose a player who you are certain of at least the best of your ability. When we selected Ware people knew he was a pure pass rusher. Why is DeCastro name ranked so high? because people feel he is that good. As for Jenkins, given his past he is a risk and while risk can pan out, 14 is high for a guy with his background and history. Hell if Florida is willing to kick you off the team that says a lot given some of the players who have gone through that program. Ingram I like, Kickpatrick I like and would be happy with either. Only place we seem do differ in DeCastro

Give up the one guy fixation and take a few deep breaths.

No one is disagreeing that Dallas needs to take a player they value in their top 14 players. And no one is suggesting a blind grab at a pass rusher.

What people are suggesting is that DeCastro shouldn't have a top 14 value because he is an OG. He may be around 16-20. And if you take him at 14 he is a slight reach as the highest drafted OG in a decade. Not a terrible pick but hardly some ungodly value as pretended here in these threads.

End of the day to me Tannehill isn't a top 30 player for us. I am also not sure we'll have any WR in our top 14. So you get a chance to get real value at 14. That might be Poe, Ingram, Jenkins or whomever but the team should have a guy rated top 12 at a position of need and value.

End of the day DeCastro at 14 to me is like ... eh... ok. But I have much higher hopes than that picking that high. I want a guy who is going to command 15 mil a season in 5 years.

All the newer lists have amazingly dropped DeCastro a bit and pushed Poe and Ingram up quite high. I agree that Jenkins is a tremendous risk but NFL teams have the resources to investigate and make those calls.

[Doomsday101]

Give up the one guy fixation and take a few deep breaths.

No one is disagreeing that Dallas needs to take a player they value in their top 14 players. And no one is suggesting a blind grab at a pass rusher.

What people are suggesting is that DeCastro shouldn't have a top 14 value because he is an OG. He may be around 16-20. And if you take him at 14 he is a slight reach as the highest drafted OG in a decade. Not a terrible pick but hardly some ungodly value as pretended here in these threads.

End of the day to me Tannehill isn't a top 30 player for us. I am also not sure we'll have any WR in our top 14. So you get a chance to get real value at 14. That might be Poe, Ingram, Jenkins or whomever but the team should have a guy rated top 12 at a position of need and value.

End of the day DeCastro at 14 to me is like ... eh... ok. But I have much higher hopes than that picking that high. I want a guy who is going to command 15 mil a season in 5 years.

All the newer lists have amazingly dropped DeCastro a bit and pushed Poe and Ingram up quite high. I agree that Jenkins is a tremendous risk but NFL teams have the resources to investigate and make those calls.

"He may be around 16-20. And if you take him at 14 he is a slight reach"

Then I would slightly reach to put together a great OL with Tyron Smith and Decastro as my corner stones.

[Zaxor]

Thinking of DeCastro as "only a guard" is so narrow minded.

DeCastro and Glenn are interior offensive players.

DeCastro can snap the ball.

Glenn can kick out to RT in a pinch, and some teams think he can play OT.

Drafting in the offensive line is about as safe as you can get.

Drafting in the defensive line is about as risky as it gets.

The best players in round 1 are guards this year, not centers.

The Cowboys need 3 new interior offensive line players, so drafting DeCastro or Glenn is smart business.

A blue-chip player is a blue-chip player, and the Cowboys have 1 blue-chip player in their offensive line.

no they don't and they just spent draft picks last year on the position and you are going to throw those draft picks right out before even seeing if they can play...Everybody knew Arkin was going to redshirt but was supposedly the better guy but had to get rebuilt...Nagy according to our own Couchscout was getting better and better the more playing time he got and Killa was doing well himself all these guys were doing this with out the benefit of a normal offseason..... so.....perhaps you all need to readjust your thinking just a bit with what is needed and what is not...we have Arkin/Nagy/Killa all are going into there 2nd year we have the possibility of signing a FA as insurance if one of these guys don't pan out....A center is were the need for competition arises...and my eyes and ears tell me they got 2 in the mid rounds they got their eyes on.

now lets turn it around to the defensive side of the ball you have What at CB? a guy trying to come back from injury and a nickle guy who looked real bad when he tried to man the outside position before and nothing else really to speak of (you can hope for FA help but most teams do not let go of CB's that can play unlike other positions like say... guard)

Safety what ya got there?

ILB?

OLB?

DE/NT?

How many draft picks ya got?...can you hit on them all

Who in FA is going to be worthy of pursuit?


That is why this team can't afford to throw out draft picks and that is what you are doing if you do not give the trio of Arkin/Nagy/Killa at least a shot


so imho we do not need 3 new interior olineman...

[cowboysooner]

"He may be around 16-20. And if you take him at 14 he is a slight reach"

Then I would slightly reach to put together a great OL with Tyron Smith and Decastro as my corner stones.

If I am going to spend a first round pick and big ticket free agent money on guard and pass rush, I spend on Carl Nicks and take a chance on a drafted pass rusher. I know that Carl Nicks is a great player with rare size. I think DeCastro is Alan Faneca if he pans out and I would rather have Nicks who can move defensive tackle in short yardage and goal line. (A real weakness on this team)

I know that Anthony Spencer is a good (B or B-) not great player that I have to give A- or B+ money to retain. I am going to trust my scouts to find me at least a B- player given that at worst only 4 or 5 dl or outside linebackers will be off of the board when I pick.

[Doomsday101]

If I am going to spend a first round pick and big ticket free agent money on guard and pass rush, I spend on Carl Nicks and take a chance on a drafted pass rusher. I know that Carl Nicks is a great player with rare size. I think DeCastro is Alan Faneca if he pans out and I would rather have Nicks who can move defensive tackle in short yardage and goal line. (A real weakness on this team)

I know that Anthony Spencer is a good (B or B-) not great player that I have to give A- or B+ money to retain. I am going to trust my scouts to find me at least a B- player given that at worst only 4 or 5 dl or outside linebackers will be off of the board when I pick.

Nicks is very good and if Dallas got him in FA then of course it changes what we likely do in the draft. By the same token if Dallas were to get Mario Williams I'm sure it would have an impact on what we do on the draft.

I think Dallas keeping Spencer may have an impact on what we do in the draft if the Cowboys do not think any of the prospect are better than what we have in Spencer.

There are many different scenarios of things that could happen this is why I have said I would not be upset getting an Ingram, Kirkpatrick or Upshaw

[fanfromvirginia]

All the newer lists have amazingly dropped DeCastro a bit and pushed Poe and Ingram up quite high. I agree that Jenkins is a tremendous risk but NFL teams have the resources to investigate and make those calls.

I haven't noticed DeCastro dropping. Poe and Ingram have definitely shot up, that much is true. They may have both shot up a little bit too high though.

Edit: Of the two lists posted on CZ recently, one has him at 11 and another at 16. So in one list he is a little bit lower than he has been generally and the other has him roughly where he has been placed for months.