Bounty Commentary Getting A Little Out Of Hand

[Hoofbite]

There's an article on Yahoo about Tony Dungy suggesting that Peyton's neck problems started in 2006 when he was hit by a Redskin.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/dungy-gregg-williams-redskins-may-started-peyton-manning-163634407.html

"Then we sort of forgot about it at halftime, and Peyton seemed fine," Dungy said. "He lit it up in the second half. He was on fire [throwing for 244 yards and three touchdowns]. But that's the year we started cutting back on his throws at practice. I'm not putting two plus two together. I just figure he's getting older and he needs some time off, he's made enough throws. But now, as I look back on it, there's no doubt in my mind that this was the start of his neck problems.

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Granted this quote is from an article in September and is likely being brought up now by another author because of the Gregg Williams connection but I think it's a little ridiculous on Dungy's part to makes his own little effect-cause correlation and concluded that this must be the hit.

[Idgit]

Am I the only person who finds Tony Dungy overrated as a coach and an incredibly annoying human being?

[CowboyMike]

Am I the only person who finds Tony Dungy overrated as a coach and an incredibly annoying human being?

Yes, I believe you are.

I can respect that you don't like him as a coach, although I disagree with you.

But with all the good he does as a philanthropist, how can you think he is an annoying human being?

[Cowboys22]

I don't think it's getting out of hand at all. That was an extremely dirty play by whatever player had Peyton around the neck and kept pulling on him. Low and behold, who is the DC of that player? Greg Williams. Manning started having neck problems shortly after that play and now his career may be cut short. This is exactly why bounty programs cannot be tolerated. Teams will obviously go after the best players on the other team. Those are your star players and they are the ones that make the league what it is. You can't have other players going around trying to purposely injure the league's star players.

[SDogo]

Am I the only person who finds Tony Dungy overrated as a coach and an incredibly annoying human being?

Not at all!!!!!!!!

I cringe every time his name pops up.

[SDogo]

But with all the good he does as a philanthropist, how can you think he is an annoying human being?

Because he's a hypocrite. He's all about second chances and feel good stories as long as the effect him directly or he has his hands in it.

Do you think he would of done the same thing for Tony Romo he did for Michael Vick or if this was Mike Tomlin and not Gregg Williams caught up in the bounty scandal do you think he would have the same outlook? Highly unlikely and yes you can see where I'm going with this with out me having to say it.

I have no respect for the guy at all and he's starting to ruffle more then a few feathers in the league as well.

[cowboy_ron]

Am I the only person who finds Tony Dungy overrated as a coach and an incredibly annoying human being?
Nope, I'm with ya

[gmoney112]

I don't think it's out of hand. It was dirty and I don't care if you're a competitive person or not, you don't pull a guys neck to that extreme and I can absolutely see how that play could cause serious injury.

Also yes SDogo. I've noticed that too and it's one reason why Dungy annoys me. I don't pretend to know him personally so by all accounts he's a good person, but he is pretty annoying and his agenda shines through at times.

[Dallas]

Because he's a hypocrite. He's all about second chances and feel good stories as long as the effect him directly or he has his hands in it.

Do you think he would of done the same thing for Tony Romo he did for Michael Vick or if this was Mike Tomlin and not Gregg Williams caught up in the bounty scandal do you think he would have the same outlook? Highly unlikely and yes you can see where I'm going with this with out me having to say it.

I have no respect for the guy at all and he's starting to ruffle more then a few feathers in the league as well.

Boom!! You hit it out of the park. I cant stand Dungy. Huge hypocrite.

[Sam I Am]

Am I the only person who finds Tony Dungy overrated as a coach and an incredibly annoying human being?

He built two Superbowl teams. Jon Gruden basically took Dungy's team (Tampa Bay) to the Superbowl in 2002. Then he won the Superbowl with the Colts in 2006.

Yeah, I think it's just you that thinks he is overrated as a coach. :laugh2:

Other than that, yeah I find him annoying and don't really like him as a person.

[Idgit]

Yes, I believe you are.

I can respect that you don't like him as a coach, although I disagree with you.

But with all the good he does as a philanthropist, how can you think he is an annoying human being?

I love the good stuff he does, for the record. But I find him annoying personally. Also, his takes as a commentator are always either incredibly obvious, or weird.

As a coach, he won a Superbowl with Peyton Manning and Tom Moore. I think several coaches could have accomplished that, or more. He never got Tampa over the hump, so he gets credit for building a contender there, but as far as I'm concerned, it's evidence of what a better coach could do with the same players.

[hutch1254]

I think Dungy was a good coach, I had no issue with him in that capacity at all. I can respect what he does outside of football with charity and reaching out to others. I really dislike him as a commentator / analyst on tv. I feel he is wrong a lot and I think he gets tentative or flip floppy with his comments when Rodney Harrison challenges him. Dan Patrick must get paid pretty well to have to sit with those two once a week.

I think with his comments about associating the Manning hit with the bounty stuff...I don't think it is a stretch, I think it is just an unnecessary comment. Sure the hit posted in the video may have attributed to the problems Manning has now. However, I think this is a smaller example that is distracting from the actual meat and potatoes of the issue at hand, primarily with the Saints. Any examples associated with the Redskins are more fuel for the fire after the fire has been built.

And, front page of the Buffalo News this morning, we have Coy Wire talking about how he blew up some running backs shoulder in preseason and getting "rewarded."

There is an obvious consistency with Williams from team to team but it begins with the Saints. I feel the association coming from the other teams is more "hey yeah we had that too" and it's cool to tag on because they won't feel any ramifications as the Saints will.

[Hoofbite]

Yes, I believe you are.

I can respect that you don't like him as a coach, although I disagree with you.

But with all the good he does as a philanthropist, how can you think he is an annoying human being?

I respect the guy for the actions he has done to positively affect other people but his commentary as an analyst hasn't been worthy of praise.

This stuff about Peyton is pretty much just trying to throw an "and one" onto the situation.

[Hoofbite]

I'd also like to point out what Matt Bowen said about Williams.




The cash was kept stashed away at the team facility, in safe hands.

After coaches reviewed Sunday's film, we paid it back out. Our accountability, governed by our accounting.

That's right. We got paid for big hits, clean hits by the rule book.

Money came in for more than watching a guy leave the field. We earned extra for interceptions, sacks and forced fumbles. If the till wasn't paid out, we just rolled it over.

Money jumped in the playoffs. A bigger stage equaled more coin. Instead of a few hundred dollars, now you got a thousand, maybe more, depending on the player.

That's the truth. I can't sugarcoat this. It was a system we all bought into.
I ate it up.

[mldardy]

Am I the only person who finds Tony Dungy overrated as a coach and an incredibly annoying human being?
Not really. I can see both of your points being pretty valid.

[mldardy]

He built two Superbowl teams. Jon Gruden basically took Dungy's team (Tampa Bay) to the Superbowl in 2002. Then he won the Superbowl with the Colts in 2006.

Yeah, I think it's just you that thinks he is overrated as a coach. :laugh2:

Other than that, yeah I find him annoying and don't really like him as a person.
It took him forever and some fortunate bounces and matchups before he won with the Colts. There was plenty of playoff failure with the Colts before 2006 and after 2006. And yeah he turned Tampa around but didn't finish the job. Even the players knew it was time for a change because Tony was too nice. Gruden took Dungy's team and kicked the door in and finished the job Tony COULDN'T do.

[Hoofbite]

I don't think it's out of hand. It was dirty and I don't care if you're a competitive person or not, you don't pull a guys neck to that extreme and I can absolutely see how that play could cause serious injury.

Also yes SDogo. I've noticed that too and it's one reason why Dungy annoys me. I don't pretend to know him personally so by all accounts he's a good person, but he is pretty annoying and his agenda shines through at times.

That happens almost every game.

The only difference, there isn't a guy anchoring his legs in place to prevent the QB from being taken down in a normal fashion.

I think it ridiculous to expect a DL to know how the QB will or will not fall and adjust his play based on the possibility that someone else might hit him at the same time.

As far as pulling on the neck, you do what you have to do to get the guy to the ground without being flagged.

[cajuncocoa]

I'd also like to point out what Matt Bowen said about Williams.

[...]

That's right. We got paid for big hits, clean hits by the rule book.


I'm not questioning whether or not the hits were "clean" hits...but it's disgusting to me to think of players taking extra money for putting other guys out of the game and/or hurting them. Maybe I don't understand. I'm female...I never played football. Maybe I have no business being here, but I've been a football fan for a very long time, as my signature says. As a Mom, I tried to teach my children better than that. As a human being, I think we can and should do better.

Jumping off the soap box now.

[SkinsandTerps]

The part Bayougirl highlighted/bolded doesn't really match up with her post.

Does it ?

[cajuncocoa]

The part Bayougirl highlighted/bolded doesn't really match up with her post.

Does it ?
The highlighted part is from the Matt Bowen quote as posted by Hoofbite. My post is a rant against Bowen's comment: it doesn't matter that the hits were "clean".

[SkinsandTerps]

The highlighted part is from the Matt Bowen quote as posted by Hoofbite. My post is a rant against Bowen's comment: it doesn't matter that the hits were "clean".

I read both. I understand that part.

Your comments seem the opposite of "clean". EDIT: About the situation.

[cajuncocoa]

I read both. I understand that part.

Your comments seem the opposite of "clean". EDIT: About the situation.
I guess that makes two of us who don't understand...I don't know why you think my comments are "opposite of 'clean' about the situation".

To clarify my comment, I meant I don't care if the hit that takes someone out is a clean hit. That saying it's "clean" is no excuse for a bounty payment. Maybe I'm naive, and I probably am, but I preferred to think players felt a little remorseful about injuring an opponent...it's disgusting to think they may be celebrating an extra paycheck for it.

I can't explain it any better than that.

[SkinsandTerps]

Okay. That makes more sense.

I hate the idea of a bounty to begin with. It is not "clean" but if... "within the rules" it is legal. Then so what ?

That makes it part of the game.

[cajuncocoa]

Former Bills safety Wire reveals 'bounty' system under Williams (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/Former%20Bills%20safety%20Wire%20reveals%20%27boun ty%27%20system%20under%20Williams)

Excerpt:

(Former Bills safety Coy) Wire said an environment of "malicious intent" already was entrenched upon his 2002 arrival in Buffalo.

"What Williams did was wrong, and I know that now," Wire said. "My sense of normalcy was warped. I thought what I was doing was right."

Wire cited a clean hit made on Detroit Lions (http://www.nfl.com/teams/detroitlions/profile?team=DET) running back James Stewart during a 2003 preseason game. Stewart -- who had rushed for more than 1,000 yards the previous season -- badly damaged his shoulder on the play and was forced to retire at the age of 31.

"Now, it's unthinkable that was my reality," Wire said. "I shattered James Stewart's shoulder, and he never played again. I was showered with praise for that. It's a shame that's how it was. Now I see how wrong that was."

[BraveHeartFan]

Yes, I believe you are.

I can respect that you don't like him as a coach, although I disagree with you.

But with all the good he does as a philanthropist, how can you think he is an annoying human being?

Because he's a good guy. You can't be a good guy in sports or people hate you for it. Even if they have to invent a reason in their minds to make you less of a good guy.


Because he's a hypocrite. He's all about second chances and feel good stories as long as the effect him directly or he has his hands in it.

Do you think he would of done the same thing for Tony Romo he did for Michael Vick or if this was Mike Tomlin and not Gregg Williams caught up in the bounty scandal do you think he would have the same outlook? Highly unlikely and yes you can see where I'm going with this with out me having to say it.

I have no respect for the guy at all and he's starting to ruffle more then a few feathers in the league as well.

lmao!!! Oh brother. Race being pulled into yet another thing that has absolutely nothing to do with race.

I'm sure you've got some actual proof to back up this claim that he's somehow like this due to race?


Nah, probably not. Just one of those things people make up in their head to justify hating someone cause he's not a piece of trash in the sport industry.

[visionary]

Am I the only person who finds Tony Dungy overrated as a coach and an incredibly annoying human being?

with you all the way
way, way over-rated IMO

[Rogah]

He built two Superbowl teams. Jon Gruden basically took Dungy's team (Tampa Bay) to the Superbowl in 2002. Then he won the Superbowl with the Colts in 2006.

Yeah, I think it's just you that thinks he is overrated as a coach. :laugh2:

Other than that, yeah I find him annoying and don't really like him as a person.I think you don't realize it, but you make Dungy look bad by bringing up what happened in Tampa. What does it say about Dungy's coaching abilities when Gruden took essentially the same players and immediately did something Dungy wasn't able to do?

[Idgit]

Because he's a good guy. You can't be a good guy in sports or people hate you for it. Even if they have to invent a reason in their minds to make you less of a good guy...

For the record, I like lots of good guys in sports. And I didn't say he wasn't a good guy. I just said he was annoying and a good, but overrated, head coach.

[BAZ]

I think Dungy is a POS. The comments he made after his son died were just so out of touch to come from any sane person. And I know it was the worst of times for the family, but c'mon.

Also when he weighs in on Rex cursing it just seems so unnecessary. You don't swear, we get it, aren't you a better person.