Matt Eberflus Needs Your Help

[Hostile]

He clearly does not understand what he is talking about.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=F4424704-D1F9-4787-285748358B82F662

[Bluestang]

LOL cue the rueage:

First play vs WAS - notice how Ware was held there by two lineman?

Second play vs TB - look at that rush by Victor Butler, if he would have squared up and wrapped better that would be a sack.

Third play vs ARI - maybe someone can do a football 101 on "setting the edge" for those that question Spencer's abilities. That was a textbook move BTW.

The last play vs ARI - What an outstanding play there...those that hate Spencer need to learn how the game is played.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

But OLB don't cover guys they just take up space.....

i actually was going to post that but didn't. Very glad you did though.

[Hostile]

But OLB don't cover guys they just take up space.....

i actually was going to post that but didn't. Very glad you did though.Great minds brah.

[wittenacious]

But, but, but ... Spencer sucks 'cause I read somewhere he was a wasted first round pick ... lol. Not unhappy in the least to see Spencer remaining with us, assuming he signs the franchise tag/tender. Still hoping for a Mario Williams FA addition, all the same.

[jobberone]

They will dismiss it as hype or lies. What does Matt Eberflus know anyway?

[TheSport78]

Amazing plays by Spencer against Rex Grossman, Kevin Kolb and Josh Freeman. I'm 100% sold.

[Risen Star]

Wow. An assistant coach supporting his player. Stop the presses. We have news here.

For an encore, somebody ask Garrett if Jerry meddles.

[Bluestang]

Amazing plays by Spencer against Rex Grossman, Kevin Kolb and Josh Freeman. I'm 100% sold.


What the rest of the players he beat to get to those guys?

[Bluestang]

Wow. An assistant coach supporting his player. Stop the presses. We have news here.

For an encore, somebody ask Garrett if Jerry meddles.


typical...

[TheSport78]

What the rest of the players he beat to get to those guys?

Where was Spencer in the final 5 games of the season? He was a non-factor.

[speedkilz88]

Where was Spencer in the final 5 games of the season? He was a non-factor.Three step drops and wide open wide receivers. It effected Ware also.

[jterrell]

RS is right in that you have a position coach talking up his guy. Not exactly rare. Rob Ryan said this defense was the best he'd ever coached before game 1....

Spencer doesn't just suck. Anyone saying he does should be summarily dismissed same as guys saying he is great. Both takes are foolish. He is a solid, average type guy.

In the 1st play two things jump off screen at you. 1. We are in a 4-2-5 set (Spencer is 4-3 DE with no worry about run stopping here) and the TE doesn't even breathe on Spencer. Spencer gets the RT single block but beats him with good technique. BUT that technique pushed him well past the QB and he has to circle back. Ware on the other hand gets doubled, splits it and is in the QB's face almost instantly. He doesn't get a sack but is the reason the QB moves. Ware is truly an elite pass rusher. Still excellent play by Spencer to chase the QB down and wonderful hatchet job on that arm to cause a fumble.

Play 2: Great show of Spencer's speed and another excellent rip of the ball. BUT he wasn't blocked at all. 3 guys tagged the DE and no one touched Spencer. He was the only totally free player along the front.

Play 3. Solid run play but he was very close to letting that RB get outside him. That was probably not his best effort of the year.

Play 4. Nice job knocking down the FB and after that just solid overall play. All that said slow, not so agile Keith Brooking was right behind him as he hits the QB. I am not going to get as excited about that play as Eberflus did.

Not a bad 4 play highlight reel and it showcases a nice mix of Spencer's talents.

But keep in mind Dallas may very well have just tagged Spencer to delay his free agency a couple weeks not a year.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lol almost got behind him.

lol assistant coaches going out of there way to support players supposedly commonplace

lol blaming the second half of the seasons defensive woes on him

[Bluestang]

Where was Spencer in the final 5 games of the season? He was a non-factor.


The same could be said for just about every defensive player the last half of the season...

[Mansta54]

typical...

Yes, very typical. Some posters can't help themselves. Imagine, he knows more then the coach even after the coach showed you why they like the player in numerous clips. Yep, very typical and expected. Wow!!!

[Risen Star]

RS is right in that you have a position coach talking up his guy. Not exactly rare. Rob Ryan said this defense was the best he'd ever coached before game 1....

Spencer doesn't just suck. Anyone saying he does should be summarily dismissed same as guys saying he is great. Both takes are foolish. He is a solid, average type guy.

And I agree with all that. A solid, average, JAG type of guy.

Not good enough for the impact position he plays.

[burmafrd]

Lol almost got behind him.

lol assistant coaches going out of there way to support players supposedly commonplace

lol blaming the second half of the seasons defensive woes on him

lol at the Spencer Kool Aid Drinkers

Solid good starter and that is it

[Woods]

Spencer is a good OLB and football player.

He's not average. He's not great.

And he's hardly the weak link on our defense. We've got bigger fish to fry.

[bmf31]

I think he can be very good and very bad at any given time! It's the effort and attitude that will make or break a guy with the physical tools to play the game and excel!

Does he have the competitive attitude and does he always put out the best effort?

[TheSport78]

Three step drops and wide open wide receivers. It effected Ware also.

In that case, why even play defense if 3 step drops will beat you every time? Heck, now every team in the NFL has the blueprint to defeat every pro defense.

[TheSport78]

Yes, very typical. Some posters can't help themselves. Imagine, he knows more then the coach even after the coach showed you why they like the player in numerous clips. Yep, very typical and expected. Wow!!!

Look, it was THREE PLAYS out of the entire SEASON.

I could find three plays in 2011, put them in a highlight tape, and make Marcus Spears look like a dominant defensive lineman. :laugh2:

[Risen Star]

In that case, why even play defense if 3 step drops will beat you every time? Heck, now every team in the NFL has the blueprint to defeat every pro defense.

It's comical, isn't it?

[AKATheRake]

Amazing plays by Spencer against Rex Grossman, Kevin Kolb and Josh Freeman. I'm 100% sold.

Was thinking exactly the same thing.

The next thing I was thinking was. How consistantly is he doing this game to game?

We know the answer to that.

[AKATheRake]

The same could be said for just about every defensive player the last half of the season...

Thus why none of them this year deserve a bump in pay. If it's their year to get a new contract, then they didnt play well enough for it.

Someone else can dish out the Ahmad Brooks money on this guy.

I rather apportion it to what we would have to pay Mario Williams who has always produced with no help other than Cushing in that front 7, up till J.J Watt this year.

5 sacks in 5 games before injury with just 1 more player added to that front 7.

[TheSport78]

It's comical, isn't it?

In a sad way, yeah! :bang2:

Was thinking exactly the same thing.

The next thing I was thinking was. How consistantly is he doing this game to game?

We know the answer to that.

Exactly. Spencer is consistently average and he'll make a play every 6-7 games or so. Then he'll go back to being "Almost Anthony."

[realtick]

Wow. An assistant coach supporting his player. Stop the presses. We have news here.

For an encore, somebody ask Garrett if Jerry meddles.

Seriously, no different than when coaches would tacitly support/compliment Roy Williams play at safety during his last few seasons with the team; a time when it was painfully obvious that Roy was a liability. You'd have the same type of folks saying "see, what do you know....coach X still thinks he can play!"

My stance on Spencer remains, he's a good overall OLB that isn't a dynamic or consistent passrusher. I think it was a prudent move to franchise him. I also think you'll see the Cowboys attempt to add a pressure player to put opposite Ware via the draft or FA (or both).

[Hostile]

So I can't help but wonder this. How many people think NFL LB coaches around the NFL agree with fan analysis over Eberflus' analysis and how much are you willing to wager on it?

I think most LB Coaches looking at the stats, game plan, and film would be pretty close to what he said in that video and a long way from the opinions that have been expressed on this forum. I am willing to write to every LB Coach in the NFL and ask them for their analysis. I doubt most would answer, but I am betting those who did don't agree with the opinions in contrast to Eberflus.

Had Spencer hit the FA Market I suspect other teams would have proven that out.

Oh, and the $8.8 million is fluid not static, so don't bring up his one year worth as proof.

[Doomsday101]

I think Spencer is a good player. I don't see him as elite and being a #1 draft pick high expectations came with the selection. Having said that if Dallas can remove the FT and get him on a mid range contract great.

[TheSport78]

So I can't help but wonder this. How many people think NFL LB coaches around the NFL agree with fan analysis over Eberflus' analysis and how much are you willing to wager on it?

I think most LB Coaches looking at the stats, game plan, and film would be pretty close to what he said in that video and a long way from the opinions that have been expressed on this forum. I am willing to write to every LB Coach in the NFL and ask them for their analysis. I doubt most would answer, but I am betting those who did don't agree with the opinions in contrast to Eberflus.

Had Spencer hit the FA Market I suspect other teams would have proven that out.

Oh, and the $8.8 million is fluid not static, so don't bring up his one year worth as proof.
Well, I just think you're going to overpay in free agency no matter what. Spencer's production does not warrant a $9I million dollar salary. The guy plays opposite of the best pass rusher in the NFL and can't break more than six sacks? He wasn't drafted to be solid against the run and an average pass rusher and that's exactly what he is.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Look, it was THREE PLAYS out of the entire SEASON.

I could find three plays in 2011, put them in a highlight tape, and make Marcus Spears look like a dominant defensive lineman. :laugh2:

Making up stories and saying them so they sound true does not make them true.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, I just think you're going to overpay in free agency no matter what. Spencer's production does not warrant a $9I million dollar salary. The guy plays opposite of the best pass rusher in the NFL and can't break more than six sacks? He wasn't drafted to be solid against the run and an average pass rusher and that's exactly what he is.

if you do to Dallas Cowboys.com the talking cowboys talks about this for a long time. Accroding to them Spencer had 31 QB pressures from the coaching staff to DWare's 40 and they had him rushing the passer 60% of the time to Demarcus Ware's 90%. Those were stats they got from the coaches because he was the one asking Eberflus the questions.

Now this thing is obvioulsy a fluff peice but how mayn fluff pieces have you seen wehre the coaching staff goes out of its way by making a fluff piece to talk about a pending free agent?

is it possible that they know more then you and your couch scouting?

[Risen Star]

if you do to Dallas Cowboys.com the talking cowboys talks about this for a long time. Accroding to them Spencer had 31 QB pressures from the coaching staff to DWare's 40 and they had him rushing the passer 60% of the time to Demarcus Ware's 90%. Those were stats they got from the coaches because he was the one asking Eberflus the questions.

Now this thing is obvioulsy a fluff peice but how mayn fluff pieces have you seen wehre the coaching staff goes out of its way by making a fluff piece to talk about a pending free agent?

is it possible that they know more then you and your couch scouting?

Ah, the old the Cowboys know more than you defense.

Yes. How can you possibly question those talent evaluators over the years?

If you have to explain to me why the guy is secretly really good, he's probably not worth the franchise tag. Of course those that made that decision will defend it and give fans a sales pitch. I watch him play every game. He's not worth it.

[Risen Star]

Seriously, no different than when coaches would tacitly support/compliment Roy Williams play at safety during his last few seasons with the team; a time when it was painfully obvious that Roy was a liability. You'd have the same type of folks saying "see, what do you know....coach X still thinks he can play!"

My stance on Spencer remains, he's a good overall OLB that isn't a dynamic or consistent passrusher. I think it was a prudent move to franchise him. I also think you'll see the Cowboys attempt to add a pressure player to put opposite Ware via the draft or FA (or both).

You're confusing me. Why would it be prudent to franchise Spencer if the Cowboys will add a pressure player in the draft? Are you saying they'll lift the tag? Or is our 9 million dollar man a run downs only player?

[Risen Star]

I don't think there's another GM in the league that would have tagged Spencer. A LB coach will take all the players he can get. I bet they'd all take Spencer on their team to fill a role. The GM needs to determine who is worth keeping and at what price and for how long. Those decisions are critical and we have no ability to do it.

I'll leave it to the room to figure out why.

[TheSport78]

if you do to Dallas Cowboys.com the talking cowboys talks about this for a long time. Accroding to them Spencer had 31 QB pressures from the coaching staff to DWare's 40 and they had him rushing the passer 60% of the time to Demarcus Ware's 90%. Those were stats they got from the coaches because he was the one asking Eberflus the questions.

Now this thing is obvioulsy a fluff peice but how mayn fluff pieces have you seen wehre the coaching staff goes out of its way by making a fluff piece to talk about a pending free agent?

is it possible that they know more then you and your couch scouting?

Or Jerry is trying to "sell" his decision with tagging Spencer and needs to sell tickets?

You do realize that Ware is getting double teamed almost every play, and chipped by the runningback/tight end as well? Spencer has ONE ON ONE MATCHUPS AND HE CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM

That's great, he rushes 60% of the time, hardly getting double teamed, and can't make any game changing or season altering plays. $9 million a year? HAHA!

Ah, the old the Cowboys know more than you defense.

Yes. How can you possibly question those talent evaluators over the years?

If you have to explain to me why the guy is secretly really good, he's probably not worth the franchise tag. Of course those that made that decision will defend it and give fans a sales pitch. I watch him play every game. He's not worth it.

:hammer:

[Doomsday101]

Or Jerry is trying to "sell" his decision with tagging Spencer and needs to sell tickets?

You do realize that Ware is getting double teamed almost every play, and chipped by the runningback/tight end as well? Spencer has ONE ON ONE MATCHUPS AND HE CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM

That's great, he rushes 60% of the time, hardly getting double teamed, and can't make any game changing or season altering plays. $9 million a year? HAHA!



:hammer:

It could be Dallas knew their option where not great. I agree Spencer is not elite however for anyone to claim he is a bad player only tells me my dog knows more about football. Dallas franshised him for the same reason most teams use the franchise and that is to buy time to work out a deal if a deal can't be worked out then Spencer will play for the 1 year deal not exactly what he wants either.

[Risen Star]

It could be Dallas knew their option where not great. I agree Spencer is not elite however for anyone to claim he is a bad player only tells me my dog knows more about football. Dallas franshised him for the same reason most teams use the franchise and that is to buy time to work out a deal if a deal can't be worked out then Spencer will play for the 1 year deal not exactly what he wants either.

Having no options isn't a good reason to over pay players.

If you wouldn't franchise him, you certainly aren't interested in a long term extension either. Let's not marry mediocrity.

[TheSport78]

It could be Dallas knew their option where not great. I agree Spencer is not elite however for anyone to claim he is a bad player only tells me my dog knows more about football. Dallas franshised him for the same reason most teams use the franchise and that is to buy time to work out a deal if a deal can't be worked out then Spencer will play for the 1 year deal not exactly what he wants either.

I never said Spencer was a "bad" player, he just isn't worth what the Cowboys are doing with him.

Buy time to work out a deal? What has Spencer done to warrant a long-term commitment?

Contracts like these have put us in the cap **** we've been in for the past couple of years (see Ken Hamlin, Terence Newman, T.O., Flozell Adams, etc). You don't reward mediocre players with long-term deals. Solid organizations know when to cut bait and MOVE ON.

Do you think Pittsburgh or New England would sign Spencer to a long term deal? HECK NO!

[Doomsday101]

Having no options isn't a good reason to over pay players.

If you wouldn't franchise him, you certainly aren't interested in a long term extension either. Let's not marry mediocrity.

Do you even understand the franchise tag? Many teams will place a franchise tag due to the time limit if a deal can't be worked out the player will stay under the Franchise tag for a season if a longer term deal can be worked out then the franchise tag is removed.

Dallas on the 5th had to choose what they were going to do right now it is just buy time worse case it is a 1 year deal. As for being mediocre I would say Spencer is not elite he is also not a bad player. Evidently you expect Pro bowlers at all position and that is not realistic.

[TheSport78]

Having no options isn't a good reason to over pay players.

If you wouldn't franchise him, you certainly aren't interested in a long term extension either. Let's not marry mediocrity.

Please stop making sense.

[Doomsday101]

I never said Spencer was a "bad" player, he just isn't worth what the Cowboys are doing with him.

Buy time to work out a deal? What has Spencer done to warrant a long-term commitment?

Contracts like these have put us in the cap **** we've been in for the past couple of years (see Ken Hamlin, Terence Newman, T.O., Flozell Adams, etc). You don't reward mediocre players with long-term deals. Solid organizations know when to cut bait and MOVE ON.

Do you think Pittsburgh or New England would sign Spencer to a long term deal? HECK NO!

How do you know what any team would do? I love it NE would not do it? Hell they signed Haysworth don't throw names out and say what they would do you don't know what any team would do. SF gave Brooks a deal his numbers compared to Spencer are pretty even. I would consider a team with the 4th overall defense has a clue.

[TheSport78]

Do you even understand the franchise tag? Many teams will place a franchise tag due to the time limit if a deal can't be worked out the player will stay under the Franchise tag for a season if a longer term deal can be worked out then the franchise tag is removed.

Dallas on the 5th had to choose what they were going to do right now it is just buy time worse case it is a 1 year deal. As for being mediocre I would say Spencer is not elite he is also not a bad player. Evidently you expect Pro bowlers at all position and that is not realistic.

I don't care WHAT the Cowboys say. The ONLY REASON they franchised Spencer, is because they did not have anyone to replace him.

[Doomsday101]

I don't care WHAT the Cowboys say. The ONLY REASON they franchised Spencer, is because they did not have anyone to replace him.

Yes that clearly is part of the reason and 2 while not elite he is not some bum player. You may think so that is your view. Like it for not even the non elite in the NFL make fairly big money. I don't agree with it but look around the NFL at what guys are getting paid.

[TheSport78]

How do you know what any team would do? I love it NE would not do it? Hell they signed Haysworth don't throw names out and say what they would do you don't know what any team would do. SF gave Brooks a deal his numbers compared to Spencer are pretty even. I would consider a team with the 4th overall defense has a clue.

NE didn't sign Haynesworth to a multi-year contract. They took a flyer on the guy and it didn't work out. Different situations IMO.

[Risen Star]

Do you even understand the franchise tag? Many teams will place a franchise tag due to the time limit if a deal can't be worked out the player will stay under the Franchise tag for a season if a longer term deal can be worked out then the franchise tag is removed.

Dallas on the 5th had to choose what they were going to do right now it is just buy time worse case it is a 1 year deal. As for being mediocre I would say Spencer is not elite he is also not a bad player. Evidently you expect Pro bowlers at all position and that is not realistic.

Yes. I understand franchise tags. And I also understand if I don't have any desire to sign the guy to a long term deal because he's not good enough, then I wouldn't use the franchise tag on him either.

See, the Cowboys are clinging to his pant leg. I'd be shoving him out the door.

[TheSport78]

Yes that clearly is part of the reason and 2 while not elite he is not some bum player. You may think so that is your view. Like it for not even the non elite in the NFL make fairly big money. I don't agree with it but look around the NFL at what guys are getting paid.

Spencer is a good player, I agree, similar to what Chris Canty was for us. I just don't think he'll justify the contract he'll eventually get.

Plus, I really think the player has "maxed out" his potential and value. I just don't see him getting better.

[Risen Star]

I don't care WHAT the Cowboys say. The ONLY REASON they franchised Spencer, is because they did not have anyone to replace him.

Which is extremely short sighted. Use that money to strengthen other positions if you don't feel like there's a replacement OLB worth paying for.

[Risen Star]

Spencer is a good player, I agree, similar to what Chris Canty was for us. I just don't think he'll justify the contract he'll eventually get.

Plus, I really think the player has "maxed out" his potential and value. I just don't see him getting better.

I don't know why he would. He had every reason to have his best season this past year and was just as invisible as ever.

[TheSport78]

Which is extremely short sighted. Use that money to strengthen other positions if you don't feel like there's a replacement OLB worth paying for.

I don't know why he would. He had every reason to have his best season this past year and was just as invisible as ever.

Absolutely. The dude had a very average season in a CONTRACT year.

[Primetime42]

I don't care WHAT the Cowboys say. The ONLY REASON they franchised Spencer, is because they did not have anyone to replace him.
You make it sound like replacing him is a 5 minute task.

[speedkilz88]

In that case, why even play defense if 3 step drops will beat you every time? Heck, now every team in the NFL has the blueprint to defeat every pro defense.:laugh2:You don't understand anything you saw last year do you? At the end of the year Newman couldn't cover his own shadow, Scandrick wasn't much better, and Ball and the Frank had to play way more than they should because of Jenkins injuries. It got so bad Rob couldn't run any exotic stuff because any time he blitzed the qb had an easy completion.

[TheSport78]

You make it sound like replacing him is a 5 minute task.

The only way to find out, is to actually try and replace him. Coughmariowilliamscough

[realtick]

You're confusing me. Why would it be prudent to franchise Spencer if the Cowboys will add a pressure player in the draft? Are you saying they'll lift the tag? Or is our 9 million dollar man a run downs only player?

I don't believe Spencer is a $9 million dollar player either. They've failed to develop a potential starter behind he or Ware, so they are left to lay in the bed they made themselves. You can't just say, "well I'm not gonna pay him" and cross their arms in protest. They are paying the penalty for their inability to have a viable contingency plan behind Spencer.

If you don't franchise Spencer, then the following happens (in no specific order)...

a) Spencer signs with another team; you're left with nobody on the roster who can foreseably take over the starting spot.

b) You lose leverage with FAs because OLB suddenly becomes a glaring need on your team and the agents know it.

c) If you can't sign a player in FA, you pigeonhole yourself into having to find your starting OLB in the draft. As a result, you bypass other needs and or BPA.

d) You lose at least a viable contigency plan if all else fails.

Franchising Spencer allows the following to happen...

1) Draft an OLB (ex: Whitney Mercilus) and work him into the defense as a passrush specialist ala Aldon Smith and develop him.

2) You make a run at a FA like Mario Williams and pull the franchise offer off the table from Spencer (if it hasn't been signed).

3) You sign Mario and keep Spencer.

[jobberone]

Wow. An assistant coach supporting his player. Stop the presses. We have news here.

For an encore, somebody ask Garrett if Jerry meddles.

Told you so.

[Zimmy Lives]

Where was Spencer in the final 5 games of the season? He was a non-factor.

I hate to break it to ya, TSport but everyone on defense except for Lee was a non factor! :D

[Idgit]

Having no options isn't a good reason to over pay players.

When it comes down to it, it's the only reason to overpay players. This is a fundamental rule of supply and demand.

The debate on Spencer's ability is tired. He's a good player. Pretending his position coach is saying nice things about his ability because you don't want to believe he qualifies as good is silly in my book, but go ahead and do it if it makes being unhappy about a temporary circumstance easier. Otherwise, we should probably wait until FA starts at least before we start complaining about our FA plan. Who knows, maybe we'll end up satisfied with what the team does overall in the offseason. How weird would that be?

[Risen Star]

When it comes down to it, it's the only reason to overpay players. This is a fundamental rule of supply and demand.

For a poorly run team, perhaps. You've been following the Cowboys too long.

The debate on Spencer's ability is tired. He's a good player. Pretending his position coach is saying nice things about his ability because you don't want to believe he qualifies as good is silly in my book, but go ahead and do it if it makes being unhappy about a temporary circumstance easier. Otherwise, we should probably wait until FA starts at least before we start complaining about our FA plan. Who knows, maybe we'll end up satisfied with what the team does overall in the offseason. How weird would that be?

I've noticed several times this claim that we think he's a bad player. A complete fabrication of anything that's been said here. This usually happens when you're on the wrong side of a debate. You seek better footing.

He's a decent player. He's not a franchise player. He's not even a guy you want to extend long term to be an underachieving OLB in your 3-4 defense. To be blunt, what he's done here over the length of his career hasn't been good enough and I refuse to pretend it is simply to support whatever the team is doing. Which is really the crux of the argument for the defenders of Spencer. It'd be scratch that, reverse it....if the team decided to part ways with him.

As for Eberflus. Yes. That's coach speak. Nothing more. Coaches defend their players. It's what they do.

But since when should Matt Eberflus be the barometer on whether Anthony Spencer is franchised and/or signed long term here anyway? That's a GM's responsibility. That's the problem in Dallas. This team has been run so backbleepwards over the years that fans have lost touch with how things are supposed to be.

[Doomsday101]

For a poorly run team, perhaps. You've been following the Cowboys too long.



I've noticed several times this claim that we think he's a bad player. A complete fabrication of anything that's been said here. This usually happens when you're on the wrong side of a debate. You seek better footing.

He's a decent player. He's not a franchise player. He's not even a guy you want to extend long term to be an underachieving OLB in your 3-4 defense. To be blunt, what he's done here over the length of his career hasn't been good enough and I refuse to pretend it is simply to support whatever the team is doing. Which is really the crux of the argument for the defenders of Spencer. It'd be scratch that, reverse it....if the team decided to part ways with him.

As for Eberflus. Yes. That's coach speak. Nothing more. Coaches defend their players. It's what they do.

But since when should Matt Eberflus be the barometer on whether Anthony Spencer is franchised and/or signed long term here anyway? That's a GM's responsibility. That's the problem in Dallas. This team has been run so backbleepwards over the years that fans have lost touch with how things are supposed to be.

He is decent but not the type of player you keep? :laugh2:

At least we seem to all agree he is not elite and that he is decent player. That is a start. Myself I would love to have elite through out my team but it is not going to happen. I would like to see more pass rush from him but the I also want to see the SOLB be able to handle all the assignments they need to be able to handle. Problem is there are not a ton of guys out there who can do it that are FA.

[speedkilz88]

He is decent but not the type of player you keep? :laugh2:

At least we seem to all agree he is not elite and that he is decent player. That is a start. Myself I would love to have elite through out my team but it is not going to happen. I would like to see more pass rush from him but the I also want to see the SOLB be able to handle all the assignments they need to be able to handle. Problem is there are not a ton of guys out there who can do it that are FA.What is funny everything he's accusing the other side with being on the wrong side of debate he's doing with that nonsense.

[Idgit]

For a poorly run team, perhaps. You've been following the Cowboys too long.

No, not just poorly run teams. All teams. Scarcity begets demand. That's how it works.

I've noticed several times this claim that we think he's a bad player. A complete fabrication of anything that's been said here. This usually happens when you're on the wrong side of a debate. You seek better footing...

Interesting take. Where did I say you guys (whoever 'we' is) think he's a bad player? I indicated you don't understand that he's actually a good player. And I thought that because in this thread, you initially referred to him as "solid, average, JAG type of guy" who's "not good enough for the impact position he plays." So who's seeking the better footing here, exactly?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Which is extremely short sighted. Use that money to strengthen other positions if you don't feel like there's a replacement OLB worth paying for.

For someone that claims to find the trenches important this statement makes no sense.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Absolutely. The dude had a very average season in a CONTRACT year.

Average according to couch scouts. Not average according to pff, FO, our coaching staff or other coaching staffs.

American sports fans always think they know more than the professionals. I try to base my decisions on the recommendations of professionals.

[AdamJT13]

NE didn't sign Haynesworth to a multi-year contract. They took a flyer on the guy and it didn't work out. Different situations IMO.

The Patriots didn't sign Haynesworth, they traded a draft pick to get him. And he already had a multi-year contract.

[Risen Star]

For someone that claims to find the trenches important this statement makes no sense.

Why would it make no sense? He's a JAG OLB starter in a 3-4. If you can't find better, use that money to upgrade at G or C or DE. Even NT.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why would it make no sense? He's a JAG OLB starter in a 3-4. If you can't find better, use that money to upgrade at G or C or DE. Even NT.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Hes a mediocre JAG but you are not saying he is bad....

You still have a big hole on the line

Ware Hatcher Ratliff Coleman Spencer

Ware Hatcher Solial Ratliff Butler

You jsut reduced our pass rush. Congratulations.

There is nothing peventing us from signing any amount of players.

We can very easily have

Ware Hatcher Solial Ratliff Spencer

Still get Carr, Nicks, resign our guys and our draft picks.

Tell us more about how hes a JAG but you don't think hes bad and saying that is fabricated.

[Risen Star]

No, not just poorly run teams. All teams. Scarcity begets demand. That's how it works.

Scarcity of what? A guy like Spencer is scarce? He's a rare find now?

Good teams do not over pay for marginal players. The Cowboys do. They love to do it. They have a roster full of them. Spencer would merely be the next in line....in another offseason of "change".



Interesting take. Where did I say you guys (whoever 'we' is) think he's a bad player? I indicated you don't understand that he's actually a good player. And I thought that because in this thread, you initially referred to him as "solid, average, JAG type of guy" who's "not good enough for the impact position he plays." So who's seeking the better footing here, exactly?

That was about the 5th time I had to read in this thread that he wasn't a bad player. As if my stance is he sucks, he has no value, get rid of him. That's not what I said. He has value as long as he's cheap and not a progress stopper for somebody with real talent.

He is what I said he is. Solid at best. And also not good enough to be a starting OLB in a 3-4 defense. They are your pressure players. He provides no pressure. It's as simple as that.

Now that he's come to UFA, he's lost all value to me. His contract will greatly trump his impact on the team. Let his new team acquire that bad contract.

I was right on Newman's contract. Barber's. Free's. Owens' extension. Austin's. I'll be right on this one too.

[Risen Star]

Hes a mediocre JAG but you are not saying he is bad....

Right. As a starting OLB in a 3-4, Anthony Spencer is a JAG.

If I meant bad, I'd say bad.


You still have a big hole on the line

Ware Hatcher Ratliff Coleman Spencer

Ware Hatcher Solial Ratliff Butler

You jsut reduced our pass rush. Congratulations.

Yeah, how could we ever replace that pass rush Spencer provides. Heck, Butler himself might do that with more playing time.

But here's what I really did. I avoided a bad contract. I created cap room for another position and I also created an opportunity to get better at that spot rather than settling for a JAG who provides no impact.

There is nothing peventing us from signing any amount of players.

Sure there is. It's called the salary cap. It's what prevented us from signing players last year.

Even in a capless league, teams operate on a budget. You spend 9 million to retain your mediocre starter here, you'll spend less there to account for it.

[TheSport78]

Average according to couch scouts. Not average according to pff, FO, our coaching staff or other coaching staffs.

American sports fans always think they know more than the professionals. I try to base my decisions on the recommendations of professionals.

You mean the same professionals that trade a 1st, 3rd and 7th rounder for Roy Williams? Or two 1st rounders for Joey Galloway? Or the same professionals that draft Bobby Carpenter in the 1st round? Or the same professionals that keep Doug Free on the bench? Stop putting these people on a pedestal, they make mistakes, just like everybody else.

Keep putting your faith in these "professionals." It's been, what, 17 years since a Super Bowl win? Keep believin'!

lol

[TheSport78]

The Patriots didn't sign Haynesworth, they traded a draft pick to get him. And he already had a multi-year contract.

My mistake, but they only traded a 5th rounder if I remember. It's basically a flyer. Belichick thought he could bring something out of a lazy player and the experiment failed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You mean the same professionals that trade a 1st, 3rd and 7th rounder for Roy Williams? Or two 1st rounders for Joey Galloway? Or the same professionals that draft Bobby Carpenter in the 1st round? Or the same professionals that keep Doug Free on the bench? Stop putting these people on a pedestal, they make mistakes, just like everybody else.

Keep putting your faith in these "professionals." It's been, what, 17 years since a Super Bowl win? Keep believin'!

lol

Yeah even them. I can only imagine the number of mistakes you would make if you were GM. I know you think you're infallible.

You aren't.

Oh and lol at questioning the progression of a guy that turned out all right like Free. You know more than Houck and Sparano now too.

[jobberone]

You mean the same professionals that trade a 1st, 3rd and 7th rounder for Roy Williams? Or two 1st rounders for Joey Galloway? Or the same professionals that draft Bobby Carpenter in the 1st round? Or the same professionals that keep Doug Free on the bench? Stop putting these people on a pedestal, they make mistakes, just like everybody else.

Keep putting your faith in these "professionals." It's been, what, 17 years since a Super Bowl win? Keep believin'!

lol

Ok, those trades don't look good on the resume. But that doesn't mean they still can't draft or trade well. You have to look at the entire picture. Did you forget the Walker trade? How many other teams haven't won a SB in the last 15 years? How are the drafts since retooling the scouting department?

I'll give you the lack of real success over the last 1.5 decades. Long time. It's time for the team to step up. But you can't say there's no hope. And every member of the FO has forgotten more football than most of us know.

[Risen Star]

Ok, those trades don't look good on the resume. But that doesn't mean they still can't draft or trade well. You have to look at the entire picture. Did you forget the Walker trade? How many other teams haven't won a SB in the last 15 years? How are the drafts since retooling the scouting department?

I'll give you the lack of real success over the last 1.5 decades. Long time. It's time for the team to step up. But you can't say there's no hope. And every member of the FO has forgotten more football than most of us know.

Nobody in our current front office is responsible for the Walker trade.

If you didn't see a severe dip in our personnel decisions the moment Jimmy left, I don't know what to tell you.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why would it make no sense? He's a JAG OLB starter in a 3-4. If you can't find better, use that money to upgrade at G or C or DE. Even NT.

Makes perfect sense to me.

It makes as much sense as using the term JAG. You are pointless to talk to. You ahve made up your mind using mindless generalization and there is no convincing you.

Garrett says he is a very good player.

Hes a JAG.

Stephen Jones says hes a very good player.

Hes a JAG.

Rob Ryan and Matt Eberflus says hes a very good player.

Hes a JAG.

Todd Archer has talked to scouts and execs from other teams and they say hes a very good player.

Hes a JAG.

PFF and football outsiders rank him very high in their metrics

Hes a JAG.

AntiEagle over on another board charted every single snap hes had for the last two years and he says hes a very good player.

Hes a JAG. Oh and CBs are worthless too.

Whatevs.

[Risen Star]

About a third of the readers will nod in agreement when I say that had the Cowboys decided not to tag Spencer, the very same defenders of the tag would have been staunch supporters of not tagging him.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

About a third of the readers will nod in agreement when I say that had the Cowboys decided not to tag Spencer, the very same defenders of the tag would have been staunch supporters of not tagging him.

lol a third of the board will agree with you on the assumption you are making about what other people think?

Do you always make up stuff to try and justify your position? i find it better to speak for myself and let other people talk for themselves.

[TheSport78]

Yeah even them. I can only imagine the number of mistakes you would make if you were GM. I know you think you're infallible.

You aren't.

Oh and lol at questioning the progression of a guy that turned out all right like Free. You know more than Houck and Sparano now too.

Nah, actually I make mistakes, and I admit to them. You know I'm infallible?

Really?

Please, tell me how you know this.

But back to the real issue; the only reason Free saw the field in 09' was because Colombo went down. There are not ONE inclination that Free was going to become a starter at some point. Before Colombo went down, he was basically another Brewster or Marten. Free would have been on the hot seat the following year and Wade didn't like starting young players that he wasn't familiar with. Who knows if Free would have ever become a starter?

[Eskimo]

He clearly does not understand what he is talking about.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/multimedia/multimedia_center.cfm?id=F4424704-D1F9-4787-285748358B82F662

Yes, but none of those plays was a standard pass rush producing a sack.

The closest play was the first play and if the QB was not flushed out of the pocket by someone else's (Ware) pressure than Spencer would have been way too far up the field to affect the play. He would have run himself out of the play and the QB could have run into the lane he left and possibly create a big play in the process.

I think Spencer is okay and I'd be okay with bringing him back at $5-6M/yr but he is not worth $9M/yr or a franchise tag. He is not the complementary pressure player we need to assist Ware and he will also never be that guy. So we can't waste cap space paying a front 7 player a premium salary who can't sack the QB on a consistent basis.

Try to find some tape of Spencer going up against a good OT and putting consistent pressure on the QB - then I'll start believing he is worth the franchise tag.

[jobberone]

Nobody in our current front office is responsible for the Walker trade.

If you didn't see a severe dip in our personnel decisions the moment Jimmy left, I don't know what to tell you.

The point is to fault Jerry over his entire time here not just selectively. I know the game changed. I reject the idea all the good was Jimmy and all the bad was Jerry. Jimmy wasn't a draft guru in Miami now was he. You always have this selective bias. It'd be a lot easier to take you if you were more intellectually honest.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nah, actually I make mistakes, and I admit to them. You know I'm infallible?

Really?

Please, tell me how you know this.

But back to the real issue; the only reason Free saw the field in 09' was because Colombo went down. There are not ONE inclination that Free was going to become a starter at some point. Before Colombo went down, he was basically another Brewster or Marten. Free would have been on the hot seat the following year and Wade didn't like starting young players that he wasn't familiar with. Who knows if Free would have ever become a starter?

Who needs to bother knowing anything when you can just fall on the backstop of making the claim that they are all incompetent, you know better and they would have invariably screwed it up. This entire conversation is asinine.

And was Columbo playing well before he got hurt that year?

[TheSport78]

Ok, those trades don't look good on the resume. But that doesn't mean they still can't draft or trade well. You have to look at the entire picture. Did you forget the Walker trade? How many other teams haven't won a SB in the last 15 years? How are the drafts since retooling the scouting department?

I'll give you the lack of real success over the last 1.5 decades. Long time. It's time for the team to step up. But you can't say there's no hope. And every member of the FO has forgotten more football than most of us know.

This may be okay for the Arizona Cardinals or Cincinnati Bengals, but not for the Dallas Cowboys. That's a loser mentality right there. The expectations for this franchise are just much higher, and that's the way it's always going to be.

The drafts? Since when exactly? Since Parcells left?

Well, 08' started looking strong but has fallen off considerably since.

09' was a train wreck and shouldn't even be counted as a draft.

10' looks pretty good, but the jury is still out on Dez. Great pick on Sean Lee. Probably the best 2nd rounder we hit on since Gurode in 2002. That's pretty sad, actually. We'll see how Lissemore develops. Seems to be a solid rotational guy.

11' starts off strong with Tyron Smith, but when you have the 9th overall pick, you better hit. I have no idea what Bruce Carter is at this point. We'll find out soon. Murray was an awesome pick. Let's hope Arkin develops into a starter at center or guard. The jury is still out. The rest of the draft is ehh. Definitely the draft with the most potential is 2011. Maybe Garrett has a positive influence on the scouting? Who knows.

[TheSport78]

Who needs to bother knowing anything when you can just fall on the backstop of making the claim that they are all incompetent, you know better and they would have invariably screwed it up. This entire conversation is asinine.

And was Columbo playing well before he got hurt that year?

Keep putting words in my mouth. It's helping your argument considerably. :rolleyes:

Was Colombo playing well? Ehh, I don't know? I'm pretty sure Jerry re-signed Flozell the season before because they didn't feel they had anyone to replace him, with Free developing and sitting on the bench. Hmm, interesting isn't it? Kind of reminds me of a current situation (coughspencercough).

[AZBOYZFAN]

This may be okay for the Arizona Cardinals or Cincinnati Bengals, but not for the Dallas Cowboys. That's a loser mentality right there. The expectations for this franchise are just much higher, and that's the way it's always going to be.

The drafts? Since when exactly? Since Parcells left?

Well, 08' started looking strong but has fallen off considerably since.

09' was a train wreck and shouldn't even be counted as a draft.

10' looks pretty good, but the jury is still out on Dez. Great pick on Sean Lee. Probably the best 2nd rounder we hit on since Gurode in 2002. That's pretty sad, actually. We'll see how Lissemore develops. Seems to be a solid rotational guy.

11' starts off strong with Tyron Smith, but when you have the 9th overall pick, you better hit. I have no idea what Bruce Carter is at this point. We'll find out soon. Murray was an awesome pick. Let's hope Arkin develops into a starter at center or guard. The jury is still out. The rest of the draft is ehh. Definitely the draft with the most potential is 2011. Maybe Garrett has a positive influence on the scouting? Who knows.




The problem with Jerry drafting w/o a football man in here is he ends up listening to his coaches more then his scouts and that is when you get drafts like 2009. With Garrett being he is the son of a scout that wont happen imo as he will always fall back on what the scouts say.

[TheSport78]

The problem with Jerry drafting w/o a football man in here is he ends up listening to his coaches more then his scouts and that is when you get drafts like 2009. With Garrett being he is the son of a scout that wont happen imo as he will always fall back on what the scouts say.

I agree with this completely. I'll never forget Garrett saying that we had our "every-down back" in Marion Barber.

FAIL.

Then, Jerry nods his head and finally says, "Let's go Jones."

Yup, let's draft a complementary back in the 1st round who NEVER carried the load in college. Championship!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You mean the same professionals that trade a 1st, 3rd and 7th rounder for Roy Williams? Or two 1st rounders for Joey Galloway? Or the same professionals that draft Bobby Carpenter in the 1st round? Or the same professionals that keep Doug Free on the bench? Stop putting these people on a pedestal, they make mistakes, just like everybody else.

Keep putting your faith in these "professionals." It's been, what, 17 years since a Super Bowl win? Keep believin'!

lol

Who needs to bother knowing anything when you can just fall on the backstop of making the claim that they are all incompetent, you know better and they would have invariably screwed it up. This entire conversation is asinine.

And was Columbo playing well before he got hurt that year?

Keep putting words in my mouth. It's helping your argument considerably. :rolleyes:

Was Colombo playing well? Ehh, I don't know? I'm pretty sure Jerry re-signed Flozell the season before because they didn't feel they had anyone to replace him, with Free developing and sitting on the bench. Hmm, interesting isn't it? Kind of reminds me of a current situation (coughspencercough).

You need to keep up with what you write. I said that in response to the initial post.

As for putting words into other peoples mouths, what do you call that last bit about speaking for the Cowboys front office? 2008 when they resigned Adams was after Free's first year. But you think he was ready? gmfb

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The problem with Jerry drafting w/o a football man in here is he ends up listening to his coaches more then his scouts and that is when you get drafts like 2009. With Garrett being he is the son of a scout that wont happen imo as he will always fall back on what the scouts say.

You get drafts like 2009 because he was stupid and traded a first and a third for RW11. Not because he 'listened to coaches mroe than scouts.'

You have no idea what was actually said by anyone but by all means fill in those gaps.

[TheSport78]

You need to keep up with what you write. I said that in response to the initial post.

As for putting words into other peoples mouths, what do you call that last bit about speaking for the Cowboys front office? 2008 when they resigned Adams was after Free's first year. But you think he was ready? gmfb

Dude, you were the one who said that I said they were incompetent. Keep on twisting words to make your argument valid, even though it still isn't. They obviously have serious flaws, but they wouldn't have made picks like Sean Lee and Demarco Murray if they were "incompetent." Keep preachin'!

And about Free, I guess we'll never know if Free was ready? The Cowboys are like the boyfriend who's too afraid to say to the girlfriend, "This isn't working out." They cling on too long. They did it with Flozell, Gurode, Davis, Newman, Barber, Roy, and now they're doing it with Spencer. If you can't see that, then I don't know what else to say to you, bro.

[Blue Eyed Devil]

Seriously? So the linebackers coach of a guy that just got franchise tagged was asked to do a piece on the team's official website and he gives a positive view of that franchise tagged player. That is what you're considering the absolute truth?

Why don't we have Donald Rumsfeld give an interview to Fox News during George Bush's reelection and ask him if invading Iraq was a good idea? Breaking news, invading Iraq was the best idea possible. Debate over, no possible argument that invading Iraq wasn't the best idea ever. What? You think you know more than a professional secretary of defense? He makes decisions about invading countries for a living, you just are an armchair secretary-of-defense.

[Prossman]

spencer is above average against the run and coverage, but below average for actual sacks. He gets allot of pressures but... regardless if we stick with the 3-4 we HAVE to get more pressure from that end spot.Mario would do that if we could sign him. If not free agency or the draft doesnt look all that appealing to me. THis thing i hate about the 3-4 is how often of your pass rushers is used in pass coverage. Spencer is what he is a 6-8 sacks a year guy who does everything well except sacks. Keeping him isnt a horrible thing but more sacks would be nice.

[Eskimo]

I agree with this completely. I'll never forget Garrett saying that we had our "every-down back" in Marion Barber.

FAIL.

Then, Jerry nods his head and finally says, "Let's go Jones."

Yup, let's draft a complementary back in the 1st round who NEVER carried the load in college. Championship!

There were a few fails around this time.

The first fail was overpaying Barber when he was a RFA and they could have made him play out his tender. We had never seen how he would do as a full-time starting RB and this was a big mistake. Barber proved he couldn't withstand the pounding and was a shell of himself by the end of his first year starting. We could have saved about $30M right here.

The second fail was drafting a backup RB in the 1st round. RBs are rarely worth first round picks anymore, let alone a guy who is going to split carries with a guy you just gave a $45M contract. The pick here really should have been a CB, WR or OL. Given the makeup of our roster at that time and the draft board Duane Brown should have been the pick with Colombo and Flo getting up there in age. I'm okay with the Mike Jenkins pick at CB - he is really good so long as he has a coach on his *** and is probably a top 10 pure cover corner right now. Actually if we had signed Brown we may have gotten away with not extending Flo whose contract was up that year if I remember correctly. Alternatively we could have taken another CB and Antoine Cason would have made sense.

[TheSport78]

Seriously? So the linebackers coach of a guy that just got franchise tagged was asked to do a piece on the team's official website and he gives a positive view of that franchise tagged player. That is what you're considering the absolute truth?

Why don't we have Donald Rumsfeld give an interview to Fox News during George Bush's reelection and ask him if invading Iraq was a good idea? Breaking news, invading Iraq was the best idea possible. Debate over, no possible argument that invading Iraq wasn't the best idea ever. What? You think you know more than a professional secretary of defense? He makes decisions about invading countries for a living, you just are an armchair secretary-of-defense.

This is the truth.

IMO people who do not question authority are the ones who drift through life.

Great analogy with politics. I'm sick of this mentality that just because these people are in power and making important decisions, we should assume that they know what they're doing.

[casmith07]

Everybody wants DeMarcus Ware and somehow wants DeMarcus Ware's clone on the other side.

Ain't gonna happen, folks. I'm here to tell you. Not unless you're fielding an NFC Pro Bowl team or a roster on Madden.

[TheSport78]

Everybody wants DeMarcus Ware and somehow wants DeMarcus Ware's clone on the other side.

Ain't gonna happen, folks. I'm here to tell you. Not unless you're fielding an NFC Pro Bowl team or a roster on Madden.

I don't think there is another Demarcus Ware. I wouldn't mind a Lamarr Woodley, though.

[casmith07]

I don't think there is another Demarcus Ware. I wouldn't mind a Lamarr Woodley, though.

Woodley wouldn't do a damn thing with this defensive line except get swallowed up into blockers, just like Spencer.

[Randy White]

He clearly does not understand what he is talking about.

A couple things here, Hoss, and, again I want to make it very clear that I'm not a Spencer hater. I think he's a solid player, but just one who hasn't proven on the field he's worth the franchise tag.

The most important thing that fans should take away from that interview is not the film example, but what the coach said: he's a hard worker, he's smart and he sets up other guys on the defense, similiar to Sean Lee. That's a big plus in my book.

However, using a few highlight plays as an argument is weak. That's something WE (fans) do ( on Youtube ), but not something the coaches should do. For starters, that coach can show me (us) a few highlights of the good plays Spencer had, and I can turn around ( and given the same resources ) show at least just as many bad plays Spencer had. I'm also sure I can find more than 3 plays that would show Terrence Newman should be brought back this season, but we all know that would be a farce.

We (fans) might not see everything the coaches see, obviously, but we do have eyes and Spencer hasn't passed the eye test, yet. This is what I mean by that: Charles Haley had something like 2 sacks in 1993 (iirc). Each week the Cowboys played, Charles made an impact on that field ( wether good or bad ). If he wasn't near the QB, the Cowboys would usually lose. If he was, the Cowboys would usually win, wether he got a sack or not. The reason why I bring up Haley is because Matt Eberflus himself said that Spencer was something like 4th in the league in QB pressures which something similar to Charles' impact in 1993. If Spencer had that manny pressures ( and I can't dispute it because there's really no official stat for QB pressure ), the impact of those plays weren't as effective as they should have been then. Film or no film, Spencer didn't pass the " eye ball " test as many of us can attest to when the Cowboys couldn't get to the QB even if they use Google maps and it sure a heck wasn't Ware's fault.

Now, although I'm completely against doing it, I do find their reason to franchise him understandable, particularly after the " he's smart, he sets players on D, he works hard "..etc..etc. What I think they're saying ( and I don't agree with them on this ) is that although they can probably find better pass rushers in this draft, may even have a better pure pass rusher than Spencer in his back up ( Butler ), what they need at that particular position is someone who posses Spencer's other attributes ( smart, hard worker, leader on the field..etc ) and whatever they would gain in rushing the QB by replacing him, they would lose more with somebody who may not have those qualities ( Butler himself ) or would be too inexperienced to make that jump straight from college. IF they have to replace Spencer at this point, it would create more burden for Ware, who IS the guy who should be free to rush the passer without having to think about anything else.

Again, if what I think the message they're trying to convey to us is accurate, I don't agree with it. My philosophy is: in this current era the goal is to get to, and disrupt, the QB as much as posible in order to allow the least amount of points as posible. I point to the Steelers defense who have two OLBs who did that very well for a period of time. Yes, " covering " is nice, " setting his teammates " is important, " hustling " is very important, but getting to that QB, and making sure he doesn't complete passes at will, tops all others. Particularly when the defensive backfield is not exactly the best in the league.

But, we'll just have to wait and see if their plan works out..

[TheSport78]

Woodley wouldn't do a damn thing with this defensive line except get swallowed up into blockers, just like Spencer.

The 3-4 is predicated on your rush outside linebackers. Having 5 techniques who can legit pass rush in a 3-4 is a luxury, not a necessity. Spencer does and should take more of the blame. Coleman and Spears, while average players, graded out in the top 10 in run defenders at the DE position (in the 3-4) last year. So, the DE's mainly did their job in the base D, and when the Cowboys went to their nickel, Spencer was basically irrelevant.

[speedkilz88]

About a third of the readers will nod in agreement when I say that had the Cowboys decided not to tag Spencer, the very same defenders of the tag would have been staunch supporters of not tagging him.
Two thirds of the board knows that a third of the board is made up of idiots.

[speedkilz88]

The 3-4 is predicated on your rush outside linebackers. Having 5 techniques who can legit pass rush in a 3-4 is a luxury, not a necessity. Spencer does and should take more of the blame. Coleman and Spears, while average players, graded out in the top 10 in run defenders at the DE position (in the 3-4) last year. So, the DE's mainly did their job in the base D, and when the Cowboys went to their nickel, Spencer was basically irrelevant.
:facepalm:

If only you knew how the 3-4 actually operates.

[Idgit]

Scarcity of what? A guy like Spencer is scarce? He's a rare find now?

Dude. You started this entire line of argument when you said we were only resigning Spencer because we had no other options. When options don't exist, that's what scarcity is.

That was about the 5th time I had to read in this thread that he wasn't a bad player. As if my stance is he sucks, he has no value, get rid of him. That's not what I said. He has value as long as he's cheap and not a progress stopper for somebody with real talent.

He is what I said he is. Solid at best. And also not good enough to be a starting OLB in a 3-4 defense. They are your pressure players. He provides no pressure. It's as simple as that.

Now that he's come to UFA, he's lost all value to me. His contract will greatly trump his impact on the team. Let his new team acquire that bad contract.

You're undervaluing him as a player, and then confused why he's not undervalued by everybody else. It's as simple as that. He's not JAG, and he's most-definitely a starting-quality NFL player. You don't think he is. That's fine. You're wrong, but that's fine.

He's a good player, not a great one, who has been a very good value during his time here and who will be very much overpaid for a season next year if he's not extended. It's not the end of the world, and it's not going to get in the way of anything we need to do elsewhere. If it does, we'll rescind the tag and this back-and-forth will have all been for naught.

As for 'being right' on other contracts, I don't recall if you were actually 'right' or not. It's easy to second-guess tough decisions after the fact. But if you were in favor of letting a young quality OT that we'd spent 4 years developing just walk in FA, and if you wanted to let Austin go, then, yeah, you were probably 'right' on those deals the way you're right on not retaining the rights for Anthony Spencer.

[TheSport78]

:facepalm:

If only you knew how the 3-4 actually operates.

What a thorough and informative response. Double facepalm.