Nate Livings Agrees To Terms Cowboys

[tayloner182]

Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Dallas reached agreement with former Bengals G Nate Livings on a 5-year, $19 million contract that includes $6.2 million guaranteed.

https://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/status/180710885470388227

[CaptainMorgan]

Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter
Dallas reached agreement with former Bengals G Nate Livings on a 5-year, $19 million contract that includes $6.2 million guaranteed.

https://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/status/180710885470388227

booo

:confused:

[iowast8rs]

Wha......

[cowboy_ron]

Man I know nothing about this guy...is this a good signing?

[Mattsdad]

Hey Guys. Help me here please....am I suppose to be excited about this and is this an improvement to our horrid O-line play?

Thanks, Mark

[Bryan8284]

Disappointing for sure. Now that first round pick surely is more BPA on defense. Not the worst thing. Though it would have been nice to get DeCastro or Glenn.

[CaptainMorgan]

that is the first signing this offseason I totally dont agree with, he sucked last season with Cincy.

[RS12]

Giving Holland ,Dockery, and Kosier one way plane tickets as we speak.

[CaptainMorgan]

Man I know nothing about this guy...is this a good signing?

he was largely considered the weak link of an otherwise solid Oline in Cincy last season. They didnt try and keep him at all.

[funkytown]

Wow.. 5yr deal

[unionjack8]

Awful Signing, And I Mean Awful

[TheSport78]

Terrible signing. That's starters money...

[GloryDaysRBack]

Bye bye Decastro

[Sam I Am]

Disappointing for sure. Now that first round pick surely is more BPA on defense. Not the worst thing. Though it would have been nice to get DeCastro or Glenn.

We are not drafting Cordy Glenn. He is a fatty. Our OL scheme is moving away from fatty OL.

[CaptainMorgan]

Bye bye Decastro

Say hello to Fletcher Cox, Igram or Upshaw looks like

[Zimmy Lives]

Giving Holland ,Dockery, and Kosier one way plane tickets as we speak.



This. It makes the unit younger and, overall, better. Not every one can start but the best five will!

[RS12]

Any body got his PFF rankings out of curiosity?

[LarryCanadian]

Wow, yeah, that seems a bit surprising. Isn't he close to 30? 5 year deal. Probably works out to what would amount to a shorter term deal. 6.5 Million guaranteed is the number that seems a bit high though.

Don't know anything about him except what I've read on this board though.

LarryCanadian

[tayloner182]

Seems very odd to pay starters money to a 30 year old whose talent is, by most accounts, on par with that of the young guys on our OL. My hope is that he'll be our veteran for the next 3 or 4 years, play that Kosier role. Hopefully a young guy will push him out, but if they don't, he'll be solid if unspectacular? I hope I'm not reaching by saying he'll at least be solid.

[DCBoysfan]

Giving Holland ,Dockery, and Kosier one way plane tickets as we speak.

Yup all the Oline signings seem to coincide with those guys not coing back.

[Avenging Hayseed]

I hope this is a joke. Thats putrid. WHY sign this scrub? First signing that make me go W T F ???

[CaptainMorgan]

This. It makes the unit younger and, overall, better. Not every one can start but the best five will!

Livings is 29, not exactly a push towards youth..

Its just not a very sound signing

[Fla Cowpoke]

This. It makes the unit younger and, overall, better. Not every one can start but the best five will!

This is a horrible signing if true.

[JohnsKey19]

Bye bye Decastro


Never really thought he was in the discussion at 14

[unionjack8]

Any body got his PFF rankings out of curiosity?


they dont rank em that low.

[Fla Cowpoke]

It's true :banghead:

Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Dallas reached agreement with former Bengals G Nate Livings on a 5-year, $19 million contract that includes $6.2 million guaranteed.

[fanfromvirginia]

We are not drafting Cordy Glenn. He is a fatty. Our OL scheme is moving away from fatty OL.
I think that is probably true about Glenn. I wouldn't scratch DeCastro off the board just yet. I have to say that this acquisition is a real head scratcher.

[perrykemp]

$6.2m guaranteed?

[pupulehaole]

Say hello to Fletcher Cox, Igram or Upshaw looks like

Sounds good to me. This livings character can't be any worse than costa lol.

[The Quest for Six]

Well this signing to me indicates Dallas won't be taking Decastro at 14, so either Upshaw, corner or trading down, and I'm thinking Dallas is going to trade down....

[Bryan8284]

The deal has a low signing bonus so a low cap hit when we dump him in two years, but geez.

Nagy to center? Otherwise Nagy and Arkin are relegated behind two FAs. Konz in the 1st is only option and that is a stretch.

[Dallas4ever]

I'm ok with this. I'll trust our braintrust on signing him up. I personally was against drafting another OL in the first round back to back years, even though I love T Smith.

[LarryCanadian]

Going way out on a limb here, but are we thinking of moving one of the new guard signings to Center maybe?

Bit of a weird signing.

I'd actually rather have had Holland for another 1 year deal and keep that salary cap money for some other position of need.

Not sure what this means regarding the young picks from last year as well.

[Fla Cowpoke]

Any body got his PFF rankings out of curiosity?

-10.5

Bernadeau was +3.4

I am shaking my head.

[jblaze2004]

Say hello to Fletcher Cox, Igram or Upshaw looks like

or mark barron (depending on his proday thingy):starspin

[RoyTheHammer]

I hope this is a joke. Thats putrid. WHY sign this scrub? First signing that make me go W T F ???

Could it be that he's possibly NOT.. a scrub?

[Disturbed]

Guess Redball is done with FA, and Jerrah has taken over. This looks like a Jerrah pick.....

Horrible....Just horrible....Jerrah could not stay away.

[perrykemp]

Happy 30th Birthday Nate Livings.... he birthday is today.

Welcome to the Youth Movement... ;-)

[Fla Cowpoke]

The deal has a low signing bonus so a low cap hit when we dump him in two years, but geez.

Nagy to center? Otherwise Nagy and Arkin are relegated behind two FAs. Konz in the 1st is only option and that is a stretch.

what is the signing bonus? 6m guaranteed so not sure that he's that cheap.

[RoyTheHammer]

Well this signing to me indicates Dallas won't be taking Decastro at 14, so either Upshaw, corner or trading down, and I'm thinking Dallas is going to trade down....

It indicates to me that we'll be taking the BPA. So if DeCastro is there that could very well be the pick.

[AdamJT13]

Livings turned 30 today.

The good news is that he's never had more than two false starts or allowed more than two sacks in any season. He also didn't miss a single snap last season.

[jblaze2004]

-10.5

Bernadeau was +3.4

I am shaking my head.


:bang2:

can anybody get a list of our offensive lineman grades from last season, nagy, holland, dockery, kosier, free, smith???

[RoyTheHammer]

Guess Redball is done with FA, and Jerrah has taken over. This looks like a Jerrah pick.....

Horrible....Just horrible....Jerrah could not stay away.

:laugh2:

:rolleyes:

[Doomsday101]

Guess Redball is done with FA, and Jerrah has taken over. This looks like a Jerrah pick.....

Horrible....Just horrible....Jerrah could not stay away.

Picks you like Jason one you don't Jerry? :laugh2:

Whatever

deal is 3.8 mill a year bit higher than I would have liked to have seen

[Disturbed]

Happy 30th Birthday Nate Livings.... he birthday is today.

Welcome to the Youth Movement... ;-)


Yeah...youth movement with Geritol, a cane, and depends.....holly crap what happened!!!

[Alexander]

Horrible.

Inexplicable.

Brainless.

Take your pick.

[RoyTheHammer]

Livings turned 30 today.

The good news is that he's never had more than two false starts or allowed more than two sacks in any season. He also didn't miss a single snap last season.

Hey! Pipe down with your facts and whatever.. he's awful Adam, he's a scrubby toy!

:laugh2:

[johnnyd]

Say hello to Fletcher Cox, Igram or Upshaw looks like

Im fine with this . Kid is really good and is a postion of need.

[Dallas4ever]

Livings turned 30 today.

The good news is that he's never had more than two false starts or allowed more than two sacks in any season. He also didn't miss a single snap last season.


Why add facts to the discussion??????? :)

[Joe Rod]

Say hello to Fletcher Cox, Igram or Upshaw looks like

This. I hope they still try for a guard and center in rounds two and four though.

[CaptainMorgan]

Picks you like Jason one you don't Jerry? :laugh2:

Whatever

deal is 3.8 mill a year bit higher than I would have liked to have seen

The dissapointing part is the 6.5 guaranteed... that is journeyman starter money, they arent paying him that to compete with the younger guys on the roster.

That and he sucks.

[Qbert]

heres what espn insider says,

Grade

67



Expert's Take

Livings has good size and strength but is adequate athletically. He uses active hands and a good initial punch to stymie defenders at the line of scrimmage. He has good strength to anchor well against powerful bullrushers but can struggle with smaller, quicker interior defenders. Livings is solid when reacting to stunts and twists on the inside. He understands angles and pad leverage to gain an advantage on combination blocks but is inconsistent to stay connected on the second level.

[dhaber]

I hope that this is one of those "coach'em up deals" because things I've read about Mr. Livings is very mixed, better pass blocker than run blocker. Guess we'll see.....

[Alexander]

Bye bye Decastro
Correct.

We just did not hand Bernadeau and this one the kind of money they are getting to sit on the bench.

This also affects the future of players like Nagy, Kowalski and Arkin.

[RS12]

or mark barron (depending on his proday thingy):starspin

Not in the first.

[NorthTexan95]

This has nothing to do with whether we are drafting DeCastro or not. It has everything to do with providing more competition on the offensive line. His cap hit is small enough that even if he gets cut during camp it's not a big deal. We can easily recover that cap space with contract changes.

Maybe this is a Callahan decision. He may see something in this guy that could work for us.

[strongbomb3]

What the hell....

[RS12]

I'm ok with this. I'll trust our braintrust on signing him up. I personally was against drafting another OL in the first round back to back years, even though I love T Smith.

Based on?

[speedkilz88]

$6.2m guaranteed?
Sounds like it's really a 2 yr, backloaded deal.

[Doomsday101]

The dissapointing part is the 6.5 guaranteed... that is journeyman starter money, they arent paying him that to compete with the younger guys on the roster.

That and he sucks.

How bad does he suck? Cinn gave up the 3rd fewest sacks and seem to have a good running game. I agree more money that I would have liked to have seen for this player. What gets me is the statement good pick Garrett bad picks it is Jerry.

[JBond]

Just what we needed. Another crapy O-Line player. The Orton signing is making more and more sense. We better get a backup for the backup, because we are going to need several QB's this season.

[Future]

Well if Bernadeau can play center, which I seem to remember hearing he can, perhaps DeCastro isn't out of the picture.

[CaptainMorgan]

This has nothing to do with whether we are drafting DeCastro or not. It has everything to do with providing more competition on the offensive line. His cap hit is small enough that even if he gets cut during camp it's not a big deal. We can easily recover that cap space with contract changes.

Maybe this is a Callahan decision. He may see something in this guy that could work for us.

6.5m guaranteed training camp fodder??? I dont think so man

[RoyTheHammer]

Correct.

We just did not hand Bernadeau and this one the kind of money they are getting to sit on the bench.

This also affects the future of players like Nagy, Kowalski and Arkin.

What did we play these guys again? 50 million each?

No, Bernadeau got 4 years 11 million, and Livings got 5 years 19 million.

Do you realize what that averages out to, or how either deal is structured?

All this really tells me is that we arn't going into camp again this year, betting on the young guys to be able to handle anything. Its a wise strategy considering what happened last year. I don't think we'd have any problem cutting one of these guys after a year or two and taking the tiny cap hit if there is even a cap hit for it at that point.

People are simply overreacting to a sound strategy by our guys. We're trying to make sure we have a solid OL this year, no gambling that our young guys can hang.

[RS12]

My question is to give him this kind of money, who were they competing against? If they were really interested should have waited him out. Wouldnt care if there was no cap.

[JohnsKey19]

This has nothing to do with whether we are drafting DeCastro or not. It has everything to do with providing more competition on the offensive line. His cap hit is small enough that even if he gets cut during camp it's not a big deal. We can easily recover that cap space with contract changes.

Maybe this is a Callahan decision. He may see something in this guy that could work for us.

He'd have to completely bomb to get cut. Livings is very likely your starting RG for 2012.

[UncFelix28]

lol I am guessing most of the clowns on this forum watched very few Bengals games this past season to be able to pipe up on here how horrible the signing is..

[burmafrd]

This is insurance if we do not get DeCastro.

This guy will start at that amount of money.

Bernadue will start if we do not get DeCastro.

More and more I am thinking that Arkin is being groomed as a center or nothing.

[speedkilz88]

If you think about it, Garrett just wants interior OL that can give Romo a clean pocket by keeping the bull rushers out. As far as run blocking he lives off the draw play anyway. This guy appears to fit that.

[Pabst]

Sounds like it's really a 2 yr, backloaded deal.

This is my initial impression as well.

I'm guessing the long years on the contract are just to spread out the bonus money on what is effectively a 2-3 year deal.

[RoyTheHammer]

Based on?

Pretty much all the other moves we've made since Garrett was handed the coaching job, and based on the fact that Callahan is a very good positional coach and probably knows alot better than you what the hell he wants on his team.

Good enough for you, bub?

[burmafrd]

Livings is solid when reacting to stunts and twists on the inside.

how much you want to bet that was a big selling factor?

[The Quest for Six]

It indicates to me that we'll be taking the BPA. So if DeCastro is there that could very well be the pick.

not when you sign two guards in free agency a year after you selected Nagy and Arkin in the draft last year....move down is a strong posibility I believe now, Decastro is off the board now, which I think is a major mistake, rather sign a center and take decastro...

[CaptainMorgan]

How bad does he suck? Cinn gave up the 3rd fewest sacks and seem to have a good running game. I agree more money that I would have liked to have seen for this player. What gets me is the statement good pick Garrett bad picks it is Jerry.

He was our Costa for them. Their line as a whole was a solid unit but Livings individually was below average. My dad is a lifelong Bengals fan.

Decastro would have been on another planet from this guy. All this says to me is that they want to draft pass rusher witht the 14th pick.

[burmafrd]

Pretty much all the other moves we've made since Garrett was handed the coaching job, and based on the fact that Callahan is a very good positional coach and probably knows alot better than you what the hell he wants on his team.

Good enough for you, bub?

probably afraid to trust the staff based on the YEARS of FAILURE at developing young guys. We have developed a grand total of TWO starting O linemen since 1998. Gurode and Free.

[RoyTheHammer]

This is insurance if we do not get DeCastro.

This guy will start at that amount of money.

Bernadue will start if we do not get DeCastro.

More and more I am thinking that Arkin is being groomed as a center or nothing.

In JG's PC that he just had, i thought i saw that he stated that Arkin is being looked at as purely an OG.

[speedkilz88]

This is insurance if we do not get DeCastro.

This guy will start at that amount of money.

Bernadue will start if we do not get DeCastro.

More and more I am thinking that Arkin is being groomed as a center or nothing.Garrett already said that Arkin is being looked at as a OG, and that the other young guys are looked at as interior lineman.

[Dash28]

The premature evaluators strike again.

:laugh2:

[RoyTheHammer]

not when you sign two guards in free agency a year after you selected Nagy and Arkin in the draft last year....move down is a strong posibility I believe now, Decastro is off the board now, which I think is a major mistake, rather sign a center and take decastro...

I don't believe you have any idea what the Cowboys plans are, and i don't think you have any clue what you're talking about when trying to say that DeCastro is off our board now.

That's what i think.. :)

[UncFelix28]

He was our Costa for them. Their line as a whole was a solid unit but Livings individually was below average. My dad is a lifelong Bengals fan.

Decastro would have been on another planet from this guy. All this says to me is that they want to draft pass rusher witht the 14th pick.

Yup signing a 30 year old guard tells you everything about what the Cowboys want to do in the draft

[speedkilz88]

not when you sign two guards in free agency a year after you selected Nagy and Arkin in the draft last year....move down is a strong posibility I believe now, Decastro is off the board now, which I think is a major mistake, rather sign a center and take decastro...I think it means DL or OLB. I think Poe is the guy if they have a shot.

[Hoofbite]

Any body got his PFF rankings out of curiosity?

Yeah, he sucks.

Ranked 54th or worse for the last 3 seasons.

[RoyTheHammer]

He was our Costa for them. Their line as a whole was a solid unit but Livings individually was below average. My dad is a lifelong Bengals fan.

Decastro would have been on another planet from this guy. All this says to me is that they want to draft pass rusher witht the 14th pick.

I think Costa had a few more than 2 penalties and let up a few more than 2 sacks.. lol. Nobody on ANY team was OUR COSTA. He's one of a kind.

:laugh2:

[Romo 2 Austin]

Beyond disappointed.

[reddyuta]

I am speechless,this move makes no sense .There were several top FA centers out there and instead we sign another average guard to a big contract,I am not looking forward to one more year of Costa at center.Tony Romo must be really hoping we draft a Center in the draft.

[RS12]

Pretty much all the other moves we've made since Garrett was handed the coaching job, and based on the fact that Callahan is a very good positional coach and probably knows alot better than you what the hell he wants on his team.

Good enough for you, bub?

Not based on history.

[Alexander]

People are simply overreacting to a sound strategy by our guys. We're trying to make sure we have a solid OL this year, no gambling that our young guys can hang.
I don't have a problem with the strategy.

It is just they are banking on a very very average player with little to no upside.

[AbeBeta]

Wow.. 5yr deal

Wow. People still don't get that length is pretty much meaningless

[RoyTheHammer]

The premature evaluators strike again.

:laugh2:

Its mind boggling how many pro scouts we have on this board, isn't it?

:)

[CaptainMorgan]

Yup signing a 30 year old guard tells you everything about what the Cowboys want to do in the draft

his age is irrelavant. the 6.5 signing bonus says they didnt bring him in to backup.

I really dont get the signing but oh well.

[AbeBeta]

Ranked 54th or worse for the last 3 seasons.

It is a real shame that teams don't use those rankings.

Instead they waste time watching film and making their own evaluations. Stupid.

[Deep_Freeze]

Yup signing a 30 year old guard tells you everything about what the Cowboys want to do in the draft

I think it means DL or OLB. I think Poe is the guy if they have a shot.

The secret is out.

Jerry played guard, gotta hate it when people act like hes knows nothing about the position, he was at guard in college.

Read the signs, whether you like them or not.

[RoyTheHammer]

Beyond disappointed.

Cheer up, bud. Its only because you're clueless.

:laugh2:

[johnnyd]

It is a real shame that teams don't use those rankings.

Instead they waste time watching film and making their own evaluations. Stupid.

Awesome post

[Hoofbite]

It is a real shame that teams don't use those rankings.

Instead they waste time watching film and making their own evaluations. Stupid.

What a vote of confidence.

The same guys who said Alan Ball was a starter and Costa could play center are the same guys making their own evaluations here.

[RoyTheHammer]

It is a real shame that teams don't use those rankings.

Instead they waste time watching film and making their own evaluations. Stupid.

:laugh2: :bow:

[RS12]

I think the guy are praying falls to 14 (highly doubt it happens) is Coples. Just on clues from Jerry talking at the combine and some things Vela said.

[RoyTheHammer]

Not based on history.

How many bad moves has Garrett made since he took over, in your opinion?

[Alexander]

It is a real shame that teams don't use those rankings.

Instead they waste time watching film and making their own evaluations. Stupid.

I am sure this franchise spent quite a bit of time evaluating the talent we have had on the offensive line for the last ten years.

Their tireless efforts have led to the Cowboys having to buy talent in free agency over and over again. They are just that good.

Try this ridiculous excuse on a franchise with a proven track record for evaluating offensive line talent. It will not work here.

[RoyTheHammer]

What a vote of confidence.

The same guys who said Alan Ball was a starter and Costa could play center are the same guys making their own evaluations here.

I believe Wade was the coach that decided Alan Ball was his starting FS, not Garrett.

[Joe Rod]

Wow. People still don't get that length is pretty much meaningless

Not what she said.

[CaptainMorgan]

I am sure this franchise spent quite a bit of time evaluating the talent we have had on the offensive line for the last ten years.

Their tireless efforts have led to the Cowboys having to buy talent in free agency over and over again. They are just that good.

Try this ridiculous excuse on a franchise with a proven track record for evaluating offensive line talent. It will not work here.

or just keep pumping sunshine, whichever works best

[Hoofbite]

I believe Wade was the coach that decided Alan Ball was his starting FS, not Garrett.

I was talking more about the collective.

[Alexander]

I believe Wade was the coach that decided Alan Ball was his starting FS, not Garrett.
Nice convenient dodge of the Costa issue.

[AbeBeta]

What a vote of confidence.

The same guys who said Alan Ball was a starter and Costa could play center are the same guys making their own evaluations here.

Great point. Every decision ever made on other teams is 100% correct. Why can't we do that?

[RS12]

How many bad moves has Garrett made since he took over, in your opinion?

Garrett hasnt taken over, he'd be naming his own staff if he had.

[Dash28]

Garrett hasnt taken over, he'd be naming his own staff if he had.
:confused:

[RoyTheHammer]

Nice convenient dodge of the Costa issue.

I'll ask you the same question.. how many bad moves has Garrett made since he took over, in your opinion?

L Rob? Sammy Morris? Callahan as the OL coach? Getting rid of Campo? Henderson? The 6 other FA's we've signed that everyone has loved?

How many?

[fuzzanoon]

I feel like I need to add some humor to this discussion....

Madden 12 roster ratings improved Livings' rating as the season progressed...that says it all for me!

[casmith07]

Backup money. Churn, baby, churn!

[speedkilz88]

I am sure this franchise spent quite a bit of time evaluating the talent we have had on the offensive line for the last ten years.

Their tireless efforts have led to the Cowboys having to buy talent in free agency over and over again. They are just that good.

Try this ridiculous excuse on a franchise with a proven track record for evaluating offensive line talent. It will not work here.The Cowboys compared to other teams around the league have actually done just as well with their picks on the OL, they just don't draft as many OL as the rest of the NFL.

[RoyTheHammer]

Garrett hasnt taken over, he'd be naming his own staff if he had.

Dumbdedumbdumbdumb..

:rolleyes:

[AbeBeta]

I am sure this franchise spent quite a bit of time evaluating the talent we have had on the offensive line for the last ten years.

Their tireless efforts have led to the Cowboys having to buy talent in free agency over and over again. They are just that good.

Try this ridiculous excuse on a franchise with a proven track record for evaluating offensive line talent. It will not work here.

You must be right. The guys at PFF are clearly much better at this. After all, what is more lucrative? Having a web site that a number of geeks subscribe to or actually working in the NFL?

[LarryCanadian]

Adam will analyze and determine what the real contract is for this guy - once all the details are out.

Probably is a 2-3 year deal in reality, but still a bit surprising - ableit our depth/experience in the interior of the line last year was atrocious.

Compare to last year, where we had a 7th rounder starting his first NFL game at guard and a couple of undrafted free-agents playing their first games in NFL at Center (maybe Costa had played a game or two before, but Kowalski was new). Here we have a couple of guards added that have played a lot of snaps in the NFL.

Trying to find the reasoning.
Can't see Dockery or Holland back now that is for sure, and Kosier has to be iffy as well.
Do you think they feel one of Nagy or Arkin is a bust?

I just maybe feel they reached a bit early here for a veteran and could maybe have gotten someone a bit better or used the money elsewhere - but I don't know anything about the guy.

I still think we are going big NT in 1st round of draft or a pass rusher. Love Rat, but he isn't super young and is undersized and wearing down a bit, and now we have 3 relatively small ILB's. I think we go Poe if he is there in the 1st round, and move Rat around even more.

LarryCanadian

[TheCount]

You can't be serious. If this is an excuse not to draft DeCastro, I will be livid. And we signed him long term too, this is ridiculous. First miss of the offseason in my opinion.

[RoyTheHammer]

I was talking more about the collective.

Gotcha.. my bad.

I see alot better moves being made since Garrett took over though, than in recent years. Probably as good as we've done since BP was here, so im not going to sit here and whine about this one move with some of the others that are doing it (not saying you) because they didn't like one move out of the 30 other unanimously good ones that we've made under Garrett. Just think people are being a bit silly.. though i expected it from here.

[Joe Realist]

Bengals fans did not want him back. Who knows

[BraveHeartFan]

I don't think this keeps DeCastro out but what I do believe is that this solidifys the fact that they're absolutely going to go with BPA when they draft rather than drafting best player at a position they just have to have.

I don't understand the freak out over the money. IT's not like they've signed these guys to enormous deals. These guys are going to fight for starting spots. They've created at the very least quality depth and even more important competition along that interior O-Line.

And they're slowly putting themselves into the position where they don't have to take any particular position in the draft they can stay true to their board and go BPA.

[Disturbed]

I am sure this franchise spent quite a bit of time evaluating the talent we have had on the offensive line for the last ten years.

Their tireless efforts have led to the Cowboys having to buy talent in free agency over and over again. They are just that good.

Try this ridiculous excuse on a franchise with a proven track record for evaluating offensive line talent. It will not work here.


I agree. They need some new blood in the scouting department that can do a better job of evaluating offensive lineman.

Two issues with signing: 1) kills youth movement for OL, and 2) money paid.

[Hoofbite]

Great point. Every decision ever made on other teams is 100% correct. Why can't we do that?

Oh please, nobody expects that at all.

Some people however, do believe it. I'd say supporting a guy who graded as poorly as he is would qualify.

Sure, surprise me Livens. Prove those 3 years of suckage were a fluke.

And before you get to adamant about PFFs grading. Whether or not you agree with how they translate to the field is debatable. Whether or not they are as accurate as any grade could be is doubtful.

But, they hold the guys to the same standard and as long as someone is coming out in the 50s, it's gonna take a huge amount of errors in their grading to change that.

[canters]

No oline pick at 14 for us. We still may take a Center later on,,,,remember Callahan has been working several out....

[ScipioCowboy]

Ugh...

Ah, well. We can only cross our fingers, hope it works out, and hope it doesn't deter them from drafting DeCastro.

[WPBCowboysFan]

At least this thread provides some entertaining reading.

Based on the other "good" FA signings, Im inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one - for now.

[Wood]

I am gonna say Callahan has had major influence on all OL signed in FA. Not sure what plan is yet...but Callahan and Garrett are just too intelligent to just be throwing darts on these OL. Curious what Broaddus is saying.

[RoyTheHammer]

Trying to find the reasoning.
Can't see Dockery or Holland back now that is for sure, and Kosier has to be iffy as well.
Do you think they feel one of Nagy or Arkin is a bust?

LarryCanadian

As i said earlier, the reasoning that i see in all of this, which seems to be pretty clear.. is that the Cowboys have learned from last year, and don't want to go into camp this year betting that their young guys can get the job done. We want to go in with options, and guys who are proven and have alot of starts under their belt in the NFL who they know can handle the job if necessary. I think if one of the young guys shows they are ready to step up, we won't have any problems at all cutting one of these guys in a year or two. We're just saying that we're serious about shoring up the line this year, and we arn't gambling that the young kids will be able to get the job done.. that's all. We didn't pay these guys 50 million each, we gave them very modest contracts, most likely structured in a way that if we cut them we wouldn't take much of a hit.

[Hoofbite]

You can't be serious. If this is an excuse not to draft DeCastro, I will be livid. And we signed him long term too, this is ridiculous. First miss of the offseason in my opinion.

I'm not big on Bernadette but I'm trying to hold a smalle kindling of hope that his inexperience will be developed into a suitable player.

This guy, I have little hope. Has started multiple games and just doesn't appear to be good at all.

[ScipioCowboy]

To quote Billy Bob Thornton from Bad Santa, "They can't all be winners."

[Hoofbite]

To quote Billy Bob Thornton from Bad Santa, "They can't all be winners."

Aspirin?

[TheCount]

Backup money. Churn, baby, churn!

4mil a year is backup money? Maybe overpaid backup money. What, exactly, was the point of drafting Nagy and Arkin if you're going to pay a backup 4 mil per?

[cowboyjoe]

Hey Guys. Help me here please....am I suppose to be excited about this and is this an improvement to our horrid O-line play?

Thanks, Mark

No, most of us dont agree with this move. Reports are that he struggled at OG, and bengals board reflects this. However, keep in mind Callahan might know something about this player we dont know. Not saying its a good move,.but Callahan may have had something to do with this move.

[Doomsday101]

What a vote of confidence.

The same guys who said Alan Ball was a starter and Costa could play center are the same guys making their own evaluations here.

Bill Callahan was not here. I think we spent to much but to think that Callahan and scouts were not reviewing tapes of Livings is foolish at best.

[Alexander]

I'll ask you the same question.. how many bad moves has Garrett made since he took over, in your opinion?

L Rob? Sammy Morris? Callahan as the OL coach? Getting rid of Campo? Henderson? The 6 other FA's we've signed that everyone has loved?

How many?
You are shifting the discussion away from the real issue which is the offensive line.

How many decisions in regards to the line has he got right?

Cutting Gurode for Costa?

Cutting Holland and then bringing him back in desperation?

Signing Derrick Dockery?

Drafting David Arkin and refusing to play him a single down?

Paying Doug Free and getting average returns?

Save the next to no-brainer decision to draft Tyron Smith, I am struggling for the rest of the good moves.

The preponderance of the evidence suggests this has a stronger chance of being a bad move than a good move.

[Joe Rod]

This seems to be Montrae Holland's replacement. A long-term back-up that could fill in for an extended period if need be (or if your younger players aren't good enough to play).

This is what I am telling myself right now anyway.

[hra8700]

*** just happened.

What were they THINKING.

OMG. :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

We could have had ben freaking grubbs for the amount they paid livings and Bernadeau.

***

[RoyTheHammer]

You are shifting the discussion away from the real issue which is the offensive line.

How many decisions in regards to the line has he got right?

Cutting Gurode for Costa?

Cutting Holland and then bringing him back in desperation?

Signing Derrick Dockery?

Drafting David Arkin and refusing to play him a single down?

Paying Doug Free and getting average returns?

Save the next to no-brainer decision to draft Tyron Smith, I am struggling for the rest of the good moves.

The preponderance of the evidence suggests this has a stronger chance of being a bad move than a good move.

How was Free the year before last? We drafted Arkin in the 4th round.. does that mean he should be playing the first year, with no offseason? Who out there was better than Dockery at the time? Did we cut Gurode because of salary or because of his play? Was Holland playing well when we cut him.. or did he need the time at the OL school because he was already a good player?

[nablives]

Maybe this moves helps the Cowboys go BPA? They had O-line issues, they signed a couple of guys. The had an ILB issue, they signed a guy. The have secondary issues, they signed a couple of guys. This could create the mentality that they don't have to have an OG, or a CB, etc., but instead, they can simply draft the BPA instead of focusing solely on 3 positions or so at that spot.

[stasheroo]

Wow. People still don't get that length is pretty much meaningless

Funny, that's not what they tell me...

:D

[ScipioCowboy]

Aspirin?

We're going to need it after a 40 page thread on this guy....

[SilverStarCowboy]

Cool, no Guard at 14!

[AmishCowboy]

He's been durable, and will at least be a competent backup, the trio of Holland,Dockery and Kosier are done here.

[Goku]

very frustrating signing.

[Chocolate Lab]

You are shifting the discussion away from the real issue which is the offensive line.

How many decisions in regards to the line has he got right?

Cutting Gurode for Costa?

Cutting Holland and then bringing him back in desperation?

Signing Derrick Dockery?

Drafting David Arkin and refusing to play him a single down?

Paying Doug Free and getting average returns?

Save the next to no-brainer decision to draft Tyron Smith, I am struggling for the rest of the good moves.
Don't forget passing on Waters when he was out there...

I'm just wondering where we're getting a center. Maybe that one pic of the Carolina guy snapping in practice is the grand plan. :cool:

[Dash28]

Don't forget passing on Waters when he was out there...

I'm just wondering where we're getting a center. Maybe that one pic of the Carolina guy snapping in practice is the grand plan. :cool:
Dal only team to pass on Waters?

That's news to me.

[AbeBeta]

Oh please, nobody expects that at all.


Then don't point to one or two bad decisions as evidence. You can find that one any team.

[TheCount]

He's been durable, and will at least be a competent backup, the trio of Holland,Dockery and Kosier are done here.

I don't think you pay a backup 4mil. Chance are we will address G later in the draft and now feel free to take a guy that has no chance of starting this year because we have this guy to buy us time. That's pretty much how we've dealt with the offensive line for years here.

Smith being the exception, and that worked out horribly, obviously.

[Fla Cowpoke]

4mil a year is backup money? Maybe overpaid backup money. What, exactly, was the point of drafting Nagy and Arkin if you're going to pay a backup 4 mil per?

Don't consider the average of the deal...wait to freak until you see what the hits are. Minimum salaries his first two years and a 5m signing bonus would give cap hits well under 2m a year and taking off a $400k bottom salary for rule of 51 the net increase to cap could be 1.5m the next two years.

With that structure...after two years he could be cut and we would get cap space back that year with a couple million in dead money the following year. It's not the end of the world.

If he is at least an average NFL starter, the price would be reasonable.

[Bluestang]

The Eagles seem to do better with CIN washouts, maybe the problem is not with the players but the caoches over at CIN.

[SilverStarCowboy]

What a bunch of cry babys, buck it, this is a good signing.

[AbeBeta]

Adam will analyze and determine what the real contract is for this guy - once all the details are out.

Probably is a 2-3 year deal in reality, but still a bit surprising - ableit our depth/experience in the interior of the line last year was atrocious.


I don't think we really need a cap expert for that.

Every deal that is 5 years or longer works out as essentially a 3 year commitment. That's the point at which you break even (or even save a little) by cutting the guy.

[PullMyFinger]

Giving Holland ,Dockery, and Kosier one way plane tickets as we speak.


Holland and Kosier are about a million times better than this bum

[stasheroo]

Dal only team to pass on Waters?

That's news to me.

No, the only team in Texas (where Waters actually wanted to play) with a g-a-p-i-n-g h-o-l-e at the guard position.

But that's now news.

They absolutely screwed the pooch there.

There's no denying it.

[Disturbed]

He's been durable, and will at least be a competent backup, the trio of Holland,Dockery and Kosier are done here.

Durability in your 20's is one thing...you recover quicker. I hope he is only a backup in his 30's.

Cincy fans cheering his leaving....Dallas fans groan at his arrival. Probably not the mark of great player.

[TheCount]

Don't consider the average of the deal...wait to freak until you see what the hits are. Minimum salaries his first two years and a 5m signing bonus would give cap hits well under 2m a year and taking off a $400k bottom salary for rule of 51 the net increase to cap could be 1.5m the next two years.

With that structure...after two years he could be cut and we would get cap space back that year with a couple million in dead money the following year. It's not the end of the world.

If he is at least an average NFL starter, the price would be reasonable.

It's not a matter of freaking out. I think he's a terrible player and will give the team an excuse to not take the line seriously, yet again. I don't care about the cap number, I care about what they are thinking with the signing.

If they signed him to be a backup, then fantastic. If not, then we are in trouble. We don't have the best track record here.

[Alexander]

How was Free the year before last?

Wait, I thought this was about Garrett. Wade was the coach the year before last.

Please make up your mind how you want to proceed with the discussion.

Or continue to look completely foolish and desperate.


We drafted Arkin in the 4th round.. does that mean he should be playing the first year, with no offseason?


Was he the only fourth round choice who was also robbed of the offseason? No. There were linemen drafted after him who were able to play and even start. Jason Pinkston started for the Browns. Jason Kelce started all sixteen games for the Eagles. Even our own Bill Nagy. Try another excuse. This one does not fly.


Who out there was better than Dockery at the time?


Brian Waters for one. Both signings were announced September 4.

Did we cut Gurode because of salary or because of his play? Was Holland playing well when we cut him.. or did he need the time at the OL school because he was already a good player?

And you are really using these moves as proof that Garrett is making all the right moves? Both of these were questionable at best. If Gurode was cut over money, that is a victory? If Holland was too fat, we got Dockery in a wash, so that too is all winning?

[Doomsday101]

Durability in your 20's is one thing...you recover quicker. I hope he is only a backup.

Cincy fans cheering his leaving....Dallas fans groan at his arrival. Probably not the mark of great player.

True but then a great player at G is getting 47 million for 5 years.

[jjktkk]

Based on?

That they are more qualified as coaches, scouts, etc. than us fans. The Boys have a new O-line coach, and a new strength coach, so I'm going to take a wait and see approach, before I start bashing the O-line and Jerry for the O-line changes. Also, I'm sure that this isn't the last moves made, regarding the O-line.

[Kangaroo]

What did we play these guys again? 50 million each?

No, Bernadeau got 4 years 11 million, and Livings got 5 years 19 million.

Do you realize what that averages out to, or how either deal is structured?

All this really tells me is that we arn't going into camp again this year, betting on the young guys to be able to handle anything. Its a wise strategy considering what happened last year. I don't think we'd have any problem cutting one of these guys after a year or two and taking the tiny cap hit if there is even a cap hit for it at that point.

People are simply overreacting to a sound strategy by our guys. We're trying to make sure we have a solid OL this year, no gambling that our young guys can hang.

It is also cheap enough to keep them at backups if a young guy beats them out and give us quality depth for a few years. So it will be open competition in training camp and i expect one of the two young guys to start at center.

In fact with these two signings that gives us 6 interior o linemen one of those guys is not going to make it out of camp on this team my bet is who ever lose out between Kronk, Costa and Nagy which ever one takes the starting center job and who ever is deemed the best backup will be kept and the 3rd one out.

I look for Dallas to try and draft a Tackle in this draft imo because we have Free, Smith, Parnell and who am i missing

[BiffWellingtonIII]

Good signing

Low cap hit - low bonus

Doesnt take penalties - doesn't go offsides - this is a coaches player / Callahan will get the best out him.

I'm sick of the recycled stiffs we've had on the OL .

[Doomsday101]

I'm not impressed with the signing of Livings I also think we have some over reaction when people claim this will prevent Dallas from getting any other OL player.

[RoyTheHammer]

Wait, I thought this was about Garrett. Wade was the coach the year before last.

Please make up your mind how you want to proceed with the discussion.

Or continue to look completely foolish and desperate.



Was he the only fourth round choice who was also robbed of the offseason? No. There were linemen drafted after him who were able to play and even start. Jason Pinkston started for the Browns. Jason Kelce started all sixteen games for the Eagles. Even our own Bill Nagy. Try another excuse. This one does not fly.



Brian Waters for one. Both signings were announced September 4.



And you are really using these moves as proof that Garrett is making all the right moves? Both of these were questionable at best. If Gurode was cut over money, that is a victory? If Holland was too fat, we got Dockery in a wash, so that too is all winning?

I never claimed Garrett makes all the right moves. I asked you how many bad moves has he made, in your opinion, since he's gotten here.. compare that to how many good ones he's made and i think he's done a fine job.

Call me foolish if it makes you feel better, but i'll wait until we get to see what becomes of Livings through half a season at least to cry and moan about this player that you know nothing about like some of you want to do now.. that's all.

:)

[Teague31]

Not a good pick up but certainly confirms we are not taking decastro at 14.

[Alexander]

I think he's a terrible player and will give the team an excuse to not take the line seriously, yet again. I don't care about the cap number, I care about what they are thinking with the signing.

It is the idea that we have shown again and again when we invest resources (especially free agent signings) in a particular position.

The response is that things are all set and we move on to the next leak in the dam thinking that one is successfully plugged.

I fail to see how anyone can look at this player and consider the problem as being solved.

[JBond]

It's not a matter of freaking out. I think he's a terrible player and will give the team an excuse to not take the line seriously, yet again. I don't care about the cap number, I care about what they are thinking with the signing.

If they signed him to be a backup, then fantastic. If not, then we are in trouble. We don't have the best track record here.

We don't need o-linemen. We need 3-4 DE's or so I have been told. I am terrified the Cowboys believe the retreads they brought in are good enough to be starters. I am going to be pissed if the pass on Decastro.

It sure would be fun to see what Romo could do with a real NFL quality line playing in front of him. To bad we wont see it this year.

[Hoofbite]

Then don't point to one or two bad decisions as evidence. You can find that one any team.

Then don't pimp the evaluators like they haven't screwed the pooch.

[Dash28]

Not a good pick up but certainly confirms we are not taking decastro at 14.
We have no way of knowing that.

[RS12]

No, the only team in Texas (where Waters actually wanted to play) with a g-a-p-i-n-g h-o-l-e at the guard position.

But that's now news.

They absolutely screwed the pooch there.

There's no denying it.

The defend "Jerry running over puppies gang" is out in force on this signing and in general today.

[stasheroo]

I never claimed Garrett makes all the right moves. I asked you how many bad moves has he made, in your opinion, since he's gotten here.. compare that to how many good ones he's made and i think he's done a fine job.

I'll wait until we get to see what becomes of Livings through half a season at least to cry and moan about this like some of you want to do now.. that's all.

:)

And the white flag gets waved...



:flagwave:

[RoyTheHammer]

And the white flag gets waved...



:flagwave:

:confused:

[stasheroo]

The defend "Jerry running over puppies gang" is out in force on this signing and in general today.

Good thing the 'Kool-Aid gang' is out in full force to shut their brains off and blindly praise every thing the teams does...

:rolleyes:

[RoyTheHammer]

Not a good pick up but certainly confirms we are not taking decastro at 14.

:rolleyes:

[Deep_Freeze]

I'm not impressed with the signing of Livings I also think we have some over reaction when people claim this will prevent Dallas from getting any other OL player.

True, he ain't great.

But what is the only position of real need we haven't made an addition to in free agency??

DL.

[Alexander]

I never claimed Garrett makes all the right moves. I asked you how many bad moves has he made, in your opinion, since he's gotten here.. compare that to how many good ones he's made and i think he's done a fine job.

And I spelled out for you the moves he has made with regards to the topic at hand on the offensive line which are questionable at best.

[MichaelWinicki]

Neither sad or happy over the signing.

Just sorta... Hmmm.

I'll keep an open mind and see how he does come training camp.

I will say that I think the team will definitely go defense early & often, except for possibly drafting a center in either rounds 2, 3 or 4.

[RoyTheHammer]

Good thing the 'Kool-Aid gang' is out in full force to shut their brains off and blindly praise every thing the teams does...

:rolleyes:

I don't think anyone is praising this move on their hands and knees, just saying that some of the whiners who had no idea who Livings even was until they heard about him coming in for a visit need to shut their holes and stop acting like such pre-pubescent little girls about this signing.

Go Cowboys! :starspin

[Doomsday101]

Good thing the 'Kool-Aid gang' is out in full force to shut their brains off and blindly praise every thing the teams does...

:rolleyes:

I just find it funny that we get Carr, Connors, Pool and those are Garrett picks but as soon as a pick is made that people don't like well that is Jerry.

I'm not defending or condeming the pick, I think it is a bit more money then what I would have liked but I also do not think it will determine one way or other of who we will select in the draft.

[Kangaroo]

We don't need o-linemen. We need 3-4 DE's or so I have been told. I am terrified the Cowboys believe the retreads they brought in are good enough to be starters. I am going to be pissed if the pass on Decastro.

It sure would be fun to see what Romo could do with a real NFL quality line playing in front of him. To bad we wont see it this year.

They are good enough to be starters solid unspectacular starters. They are not getting paid Pro Bowl money and they are not expected to be Pro Bowl guards if they play like one great but they are expected to play like 90% of the starting Guards in the NFL solid and unspectacular and not making a probowl.

Once again expecting pro bowlers at every spot but if you looked around a probowl Linemen is quite expensive and the team that had him let him walk instead of keeping two probowl Guards and will be starting guys similar to what we will be starting.

The Myopic view if he is not a stud Probowl player than they suck and we should not sign them

[jjktkk]

I don't have a problem with the strategy.

It is just they are banking on a very very average player with little to no upside.

Which tells me, imo, that Livings was signed to be bridge/stop gap to either Arkin, Nagy, and Bernadeau eventually beating out Livings for a starting gig, within a couple of seasons, if not this year.

[RoyTheHammer]

And I spelled out for you the moves he has made with regards to the topic at hand on the offensive line which are questionable at best.

I think he's made some questionable moves on the OL as well, but what we've done so far this year seems to show that we're learning from what happened last year and making sure we shore up the line this year. If you look at his moves during the year last season, he brought in 2 guys in the middle of the season that nobody thought were anything, and they turned out to be productive players for us. Same thing when we brought in Kosier.. no one thought he was anything even though he had started for Detroit, ended up being a productive player for us. We brought in Callahan this year too, who is a very good positional coach.

I've just seen too many good moves to crap on this one before we get a little idea of how its going to play out. There's no point in acting that way.

[Dallas]

I see our negative nancy's all made this thread. They have been SIMMERING and marinating in the hatred just LOOKING for an excuse to pounce.

Glad they got a moment to release some of that hormonal excess. :laugh2:

[TheSport78]

They are good enough to be starters solid unspectacular starters. They are not getting paid Pro Bowl money and they are not expected to be Pro Bowl guards if they play like one great but they are expected to play like 90% of the starting Guards in the NFL solid and unspectacular and not making a probowl.

Once again expecting pro bowlers at every spot but if you looked around a probowl Linemen is quite expensive and the team that had him let him walk instead of keeping two probowl Guards and will be starting guys similar to what we will be starting.

The Myopic view if he is not a sud Probowl player than they suck

What's wrong with just ATTEMPTING to have a Pro Bowler on the interior? By how the team has approached the OL in FA so far, I feel sorry for Romo. He deserves better.

[MichaelWinicki]

I just find it funny that we get Carr, Connors, Pool and those are Garrett picks but as soon as a pick is made that people don't like well that is Jerry.

I'm not defending or condemning the pick, I think it is a bit more money then what I would have liked but I also do not think it will determine one way or other of who we will select in the draft.

Yeah, to give that kind of bonus tells you that someone or someones in the Cowboy hierarchy really thinks highly of this guy.

[stasheroo]

I don't think anyone is praising this move on their hands and knees, just saying that some of the whiners who had no idea who Livings even was until they heard about him coming in for a visit need to shut their holes and stop acting like such pre-pubescent little girls about this signing.

So the 'praisers' did know about him?

You somehow know more about him?

Sorry, I don't buy that.

You want to be happy about the move, feel free.

I'm not and I see quite a few others who aren't either.

And if this move does result in this team passing on DeCastro, it will look that much worse.

[Disturbed]

It is the idea that we have shown again and again when we invest resources (especially free agent signings) in a particular position.

The response is that things are all set and we move on to the next leak in the dam thinking that one is successfully plugged.

I fail to see how anyone can look at this player and consider the problem as being solved.


Agree. And everyone saying this guy is a good backup...well, I would prefer a young guy as my backup who has upside and can be a possible future starter. Not an old guy with diminishing skills.

Dallas should draft a lineman each year which continuously brings in new guys to compete for job (and eliminate FA overpaid signings; typically old and overpaid).

I was okay with the OL struggling a little at times since the young guys will get better...hope for the future. But this move, well....I don't get it.

[Mash]

I dont know ......throwing 20mil at a average player....if that.

I cant really understand this and the other OL signing.

If we miss on these guys as well.....its safe to assume...it doesnt matter what coaches we have...what OL coach we have....what GM we have.....the scouts for this team have no clue about OL

nada

IMHO 6.2 mil and 2 years of taking up a roster spot is what will happen here......Im sorry but I dont like seeing money thrown away on two scrubs

Sorry....not a fan of this move....I can let one bad OL signing go....but two?

Couldnt we just combined these 2 contracts given to these scrubs...added maybe 10 mil and got Nicks?

[CaptainMorgan]

What's wrong with just ATTEMPTING to have a Pro Bowler on the interior? By how the team has approached the OL in FA so far, I feel sorry for Romo. He deserves better.

It certainly appears to be status quo with the way we are approaching the Oline this offseason.

Its equivalent to throwing darts.

[stasheroo]

I just find it funny that we get Carr, Connors, Pool and those are Garrett picks but as soon as a pick is made that people don't like well that is Jerry.

I'm not defending or condeming the pick, I think it is a bit more money then what I would have liked but I also do not think it will determine one way or other of who we will select in the draft.

I'm not pinning it on either one, but both.

Just stating that I'm not happy with this one.

I hope it doesn't impact us taking DeCastro if he's there.

[jjktkk]

What a vote of confidence.

The same guys who said Alan Ball was a starter and Costa could play center are the same guys making their own evaluations here.

Proof? IIRC, didn't Jerry hire a new Oline coach recently? Just guessing, but I would think the new O-line coach would have some input as to the team bringing in some new O-linemen.

[bounce]

It's funny to me that people are up in arms over this signing based on a couple of numbers and articles. I don't know anything about this guy - had never even heard of him. But, face it - none of you guys do, either. Probably 90% of you never even knew Nate Livings existed before a few days ago, and now you're firm on one side of the fence or the other. This is a total wait and see signing. I'm assuming Callahan saw something he liked, or felt he could work with.

But, let's not all pretend we're scouts just because we've seen a +/- number in the last couple of days. Since a good bit people people don't even understand how that number is even calculated.

[Doomsday101]

Yeah, to give that kind of bonus tells you that someone or someones in the Cowboy hierarchy really thinks highly of this guy.

More than I think they should have but he is not being paid as an elite G. Nicks is getting paid like an elite G.

I trust that Callahan and others have watched and reviewed tapes and this is not just a shot in the dark.

[Dallas]

I'm not pinning it on either one, but both.

Just stating that I'm not happy with this one.

I hope it doesn't impact us taking DeCastro if he's there.

Stash you ain't happy with ####. You are getting just as bad as the rest around here, no offense.

Nobody is saying jump up and down and raise the roof but for god's sakes man, you want a pro-bowler at every position just like the rest of the screamers around here. Not so thrilled myself, but I ain't jumping no nearby cliffs, if you feel what I'm saying.

:laugh2:

[Hoofbite]

Proof? IIRC, didn't Jerry hire a new Oline coach recently? Just guessing, but I would think the new O-line coach would have some input as to the team bringing in some new O-linemen.

Proof of what? They've added 1 guy and all of a sudden the whole group of guys who evaluate are going to be better?

[RoyTheHammer]

What's wrong with just ATTEMPTING to have a Pro Bowler on the interior? By how the team has approached the OL in FA so far, I feel sorry for Romo. He deserves better.

I know it sucks we can't just get a Pro Bowler at every position. Damn you Jerry! Why do we have to settle for ONLY guys who are good at handling the bull rush and diagnosing and picking up stunts and twists, which are the things that almost got Romo killed the past couple years?!

THAT MAKES NO SENSE! :rolleyes:

[JBond]

They are good enough to be starters solid unspectacular starters. They are not getting paid Pro Bowl money and they are not expected to be Pro Bowl guards if they play like one great but they are expected to play like 90% of the starting Guards in the NFL solid and unspectacular and not making a probowl.

Once again expecting pro bowlers at every spot but if you looked around a probowl Linemen is quite expensive and the team that had him let him walk instead of keeping two probowl Guards and will be starting guys similar to what we will be starting.

The Myopic view if he is not a stud Probowl player than they suck and we should not sign them

Hey Roo...I understand all that. Just sick and tired of the Cowboys making the same mistakes every year. I am tired of horrible line play. We have had it all before. Strong Oline and pro bowlers at the skill positions. We can again with better decisions. We are wasting Romo's career and it will take Jones another decade to find his replacement. I would like more than one playoff win in the next 15 years. I would have been happy with Grubbs and drafting Decastro, but the first guy is signed and hope is fading on Decastro.

For whatever reason the board consensus seems to be we need a 34 DE over a productive o-line. I disagree with that philosophy

[stasheroo]

Stash you ain't happy with ####. You are getting just as bad as the rest around here, no offense.

Nobody is saying jump up and down and raise the roof but for god's sakes man, you want a pro-bowler at every position just like the rest of the screamers around here. Not so thrilled myself, but I ain't jumping no nearby cliffs, if you feel what I'm saying.

:laugh2:

I don't see where I'm 'jumping' anywhere.

I don't like this move.

And if it causes the team to pass on DeCastro, I'll like it even less.

[Kangaroo]

It certainly appears to be status quo with the way we are approaching the Oline this offseason.

Its equivalent to throwing darts.

Overreaction they are not throwing darts they went out and got two guys that have started before in the NFL and one was on a team that made a playoffs with a rookie QB no they are not all world players but this is not status quo for the oline they are not injury prone players we took a gamble, they are not 34 year old players or payed a ton of money to sign. They have started in the NFL add quality depth and give us a chance to protect Tony. the oline is about playing as a unit not how many Probowlers you have. :banghead::banghead:

[Bowdown27]

Wow goodbye decastro. Very surprised with this. Guess there banking on Tyron and our younger guys

[Dash28]

I'm not excited about this move and I hope we draft DeCastro.

This move doesn't take away the other good moves we have made so far in FA imo.

I will be upset if this is their reason to pass on DeCastro though.

[Doomsday101]

I'm not pinning it on either one, but both.

Just stating that I'm not happy with this one.

I hope it doesn't impact us taking DeCastro if he's there.

As you know I support getting DeCastro as well and I think yes that it is still possible. I have also said there are others at 14 I like as well. I never pin my hopes on 1 player because you you said at the very end "If he is there" There are a lot of things that can happen in the draft.

[TheSport78]

I know it sucks we can't just get a Pro Bowler at every position. Damn you Jerry! Why do we have to settle for ONLY guys who are good at handling the bull rush and diagnosing and picking up stunts and twists, which are the things that almost got Romo killed the past couple years?!

THAT MAKES NO SENSE! :rolleyes:

Or guards that have graded out as one of the worst at their respective position...

[stasheroo]

Proof of what? They've added 1 guy and all of a sudden the whole group of guys who evaluate are going to be better?

No, it's more of the whole 'coach 'em up' thing we got last year with Rob Ryan.

Remember how he was going to make all of our same defensive players better?

[RoyTheHammer]

So the 'praisers' did know about him?

You want to be happy about the move, feel free.

I'm not and I see quite a few others who aren't either.

No, sir. 99 percent of the people on this board, including myself, didn't know he existed before a couple days ago.

You arn't happy about the move, but on the other hand, you have no idea who he is and you've never seen him play.. so you be grumpy and miserable and whiny about it.

The rest of us "praisers" as you call us, will continue to say "Ok then" about the move and take a wait and see approach, assuming Callahan and the offensive group see something they can work with about him.. rather than coming on the internetz to cry and bilch about this right now.

Good day, sir. :)

[JBond]

THAT MAKES NO SENSE! :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: You know what makes no sense? Having a great QB with no time to throw. Get of the insanity wagon. We have gone the cheap route year after year with the same crappy rate of success. Maybe we should get serious about the weakest unit on the team. Or do you like 8-8?

[Dallas]

As you know I support getting DeCastro as well and I think yes that it is still possible. I have also said there are others at 14 I like as well. I never pin my hopes on 1 player because you you said at the very end "If he is there" There are a lot of things that can happen in the draft.

QFT. There are a lot of others I like at 14. This board is gooey over Decastro at 14 and I understand but I am never one who wants to draft for need like most here appear to want to do.

We need some help on the DL just as bad. People like to wash aside that for some odd reason.

[RoyTheHammer]

Or guards that have graded out as one of the worst at their respective position...

I've seen the "grades" that the geeks at PFF have given out before.. i'll take opinions of NFL scouts, coaches, and front office men over the opininos of those twats and their "highly intellectual" grading system.

To each their own, though. :)

[Dallas]

No, sir. 99 percent of the people on this board, including myself, didn't know he existed before a couple days ago.

You arn't happy about the move, but on the other hand, you have no idea who he is and you've never seen him play.. so you be grumpy and miserable and whiny about it.

The rest of us "praisers" as you call us, will continue to say "Ok then" about the move and take a wait and see approach, assuming Callahan and the offensive group see something they can work with about him.. rather than coming on the internetz to cry and bilch about this right now.

Good day, sir. :)

I'm not liking agreeing w/ you but I agree with you. :banghead:


:)

[Deep_Freeze]

I'm not pinning it on either one, but both.

Just stating that I'm not happy with this one.

I hope it doesn't impact us taking DeCastro if he's there.

Well, first of all, I don't think that anyone would think 'hey we got Livings, why do we need DeCastro'.

Your looking at it from the wrong direction.

Its more about how we want to spend our resources.

[TheCount]

Stash you ain't happy with ####. You are getting just as bad as the rest around here, no offense.

Nobody is saying jump up and down and raise the roof but for god's sakes man, you want a pro-bowler at every position just like the rest of the screamers around here. Not so thrilled myself, but I ain't jumping no nearby cliffs, if you feel what I'm saying.

:laugh2:

You are so brave. Stay strong, brother! :laugh2:

[AbeBeta]

Then don't pimp the evaluators like they haven't screwed the pooch.

all I did was point out that information from a bunch of dudes who have a web site may not be the greatest.

Of course the PFF folks have the Martellus Bennett signing as one of the best of the year. So at least they nail that

[Hoofbite]

No, sir. 99 percent of the people on this board, including myself, didn't know he existed before a couple days ago.

You arn't happy about the move, but on the other hand, you have no idea who he is and you've never seen him play.. so you be grumpy and miserable and whiny about it.

The rest of us "praisers" as you call us, will continue to say "Ok then" about the move and take a wait and see approach, assuming Callahan and the offensive group see something they can work with about him.. rather than coming on the internetz to cry and bilch about this right now.

Good day, sir. :)

Some people are sick of wait and see regarding the OL.

Having a QB suffer a broken bone in 3 of the last 4 seasons might do that to some. Others not I guess.

[RoyTheHammer]

You know what makes no sense? Having a great QB with no time to throw.

I KNOW, RIGHT?!

So why the hell would we go out and sign guys who will be able to hold up against the bull rush and not let the pocket be caved in every other play like it was last year against us?!

MAKES NO SENSE!

:laugh2:



PS.. I love some of you guys. Some of these comments are great. :starspin

[cowboysooner]

Our cap situation means that we are not likely to sign a bunch of players to 1 or 2 year deals. I would bet this is a 2 year 6.2-7.0 million deal for a player with a bunch of starts, that does not give up alot of sacks, and has not been hurt. This does concern me in that I wish this deal was for a quality/serviceable center with the same decent money. That is our biggest hole. This guy is Kosier's replacement. They must think Kosier's legs won't hold up any more.

[Hoofbite]

all I did was point out that information from a bunch of dudes who have a web site may not be the greatest.

Of course the PFF folks have the Martellus Bennett signing as one of the best of the year. So at least they nail that

That's an opinion.

Not an observationally based grade that is held consistant among the numerous other guys at a players position who outperformed him.

[stasheroo]

No, sir. 99 percent of the people on this board, including myself, didn't know he existed before a couple days ago.

You arn't happy about the move, but on the other hand, you have no idea who he is and you've never seen him play.. so you be grumpy and miserable and whiny about it.

The rest of us "praisers" as you call us, will continue to say "Ok then" about the move and take a wait and see approach, assuming Callahan and the offensive group see something they can work with about him.. rather than coming on the internetz to cry and bilch about this right now.

Good day, sir. :)

Be sure to check your brain at the door.

It must be a bit liberating not to suffer the burden of thinking for yourself.

[Hoofbite]

I KNOW, RIGHT?!

So why the hell would we go out and sign guys who will be able to hold up against the bull rush and not let the pocket be caved in every other play like it was last year against us?!

MAKES NO SENSE!

:laugh2:

PS.. I love some of you guys. Some of these comments are great. :starspin

Leonard Davis was big and fat.

He got benched by Wade Phillips at one point.

[RoyTheHammer]

Some people are sick of wait and see regarding the OL.

Having a QB suffer a broken bone in 3 of the last 4 seasons might do that to some. Others not I guess.

Yet those same guys will bilch and moan when we go out and sign a guy who has never given up more than 2 sacks in a season or committed more than 2 penalties in a season and is noted for being good at handling the bull rush and picking up stunts and twists well.. the main problems our interior OL had last year.

You can't win with some people, hoof.

[Bluestang]

:rolleyes: You know what makes no sense? Having a great QB with no time to throw. Get of the insanity wagon. We have gone the cheap route year after year with the same crappy rate of success. Maybe we should get serious about the weakest unit on the team. Or do you like 8-8?


8-8 had alot to do with the defense. How many turnovers did we get in the opponents redzone or side of the field for that matter? How many defensive touchdowns did we get? Despite the number sacks we had what was the 3rd down coversion rate we gave up?

What were Romo's stats for the season? Based on that would you say the offense is still the problem?

[CaptainMorgan]

No, it's more of the whole 'coach 'em up' thing we got last year with Rob Ryan.

Remember how he was going to make all of our same defensive players better?

Good point

Not to mention that everyone thats ever played for Callahan wants to murder him. So much for inspiration.

[Dallas]

Be sure to check your brain at the door.

It must be a bit liberating not to suffer the burden of thinking for yourself.

Call him a homer Stash. You know you want to. :laugh2:


Say it! Say it !!!

[RoyTheHammer]

Leonard Davis was big and fat.

He got benched by Wade Phillips at one point.

Who cares if a guy is big and fat? :confused:

[Doomsday101]

QFT. There are a lot of others I like at 14. This board is gooey over Decastro at 14 and I understand but I am never one who wants to draft for need like most here appear to want to do.

We need some help on the DL just as bad. People like to wash aside that for some odd reason.

I would love to get DeCastro not because of need because of all the player in the draft he grades out as one of the top players regardless of the position.

I also like some other guys and have said that from the get go. I like Ingram and Upshaw, I like Kirkpatrick and yes I like DeCastro.

Cowboys said before FA they want to address needs in FA and use the draft to find the best players. Of course need will always play a part for any team but going after the best players they can regardless of position is still open to us.

Unlike others I'm not scratching anyone off the board due to FA pickups

[Jaxonsdaddd]

Our coaches have done there home work and have targeted this guy as someone who can help us and offered him a contract.

Instead of being happy with this, the people on this board choose to put more credibility into Bengal fans who dont know there *** from there elbow.

I will trust the Cowboys would'nt offer him a contract if they felt that he "sucked" as everyone here is saying. I will defer to our coaches who have studied the tape and you all can side with overweight internet football fans and the rankings they have come up with on PFF

Now lets go get Whitney Mercilus at #14

[RoyTheHammer]

Be sure to check your brain at the door.

It must be a bit liberating not to suffer the burden of thinking for yourself.

:laugh2:

You are a joke right now stash. You call "thinking for yourself" poo poo ing on a guy you've never even heard of before a couple days ago? Ok bud.

You think for yourself then.. i think, your thoughts about how good or bad a guy you've never heard of or seen play mean absolutely nothing.

That's what i think. :)

[Bluestang]

I don't get this "pass on DeCastro" attitude...It has been stated numerous times by Jason Garrett that he will draft BPA when our number is called. If Decastro is there and he is graded out as the BPA then it will be so. You folks just don't listen.

[John813]

It's funny how people can be disappointed with signing before the player steps onto the field.

It's not like Jerry, Stephen, Jason and Bill threw darts on the wall and sign Livings to that contract. Obviously, they think he can contribute for us, so let's just hold off the overreacting till we at least see him in preseason.

[jjktkk]

Proof of what? They've added 1 guy and all of a sudden the whole group of guys who evaluate are going to be better?

That one guy's job is the O-line coach, who has input to any O-lineman acquistions. Doesn't make any sense to me to bash the Oline moves made so far, until we actually see the finished product.

[Hoofbite]

Yet those same guys will bilch and moan when we go out and sign a guy who has never given up more than 2 sacks in a season or committed more than 2 penalties in a season and is noted for being good at handling the bull rush and picking up stunts and twists well.. the main problems our interior OL had last year.

You can't win with some people, hoof.

Pretty sure Adam said "fale starts"

He had at least 4 holding penalties last year and a personal foul.

[Nightshade]

Never really thought he was in the discussion at 14

Neither did I. He's a great prospect but you get a great pass rusher or CB or Tackle at the top of the draft.


You don't draft a guard when your D sucked as bad as ours last year.

Still, I have to admit that this guy Livings and his new contract is worrisome.

The Jones' thinking has been sound thus far but 6 mil guaranteed?

Definetly worrisome.

[jjktkk]

No, it's more of the whole 'coach 'em up' thing we got last year with Rob Ryan.

Remember how he was going to make all of our same defensive players better?

A shame that the lockout got in the way of being able to coach em up in a normal offseason schedule.

[AbeBeta]

That's an opinion.

Not an observationally based grade that is held consistant among the numerous other guys at a players position who outperformed him.

You can give an exam and rank people that way too. If the exam is crap then the rankings are worthless, despite the fact that everyone got the same exam.

[RoyTheHammer]

Pretty sure Adam said "fale starts"

He had at least 4 holding penalties last year and a personal foul.

My bad.. 2 false starts. You're right. Never given up more than 2 sacks in a year though.. and is noted for being able to handle the bull rush and being quick to diagnose stunts and twists and use good leverage and angles to pick them up. Sounds like a guy who might be useful to this interior OL.

[jr40usa]

It appears the blocking scheme will change next season. I believe the BC & JG know better than us what OL player work best in the new scheme.
Besides, the way this OL played last season - I am open to any changes.

[TheCount]

Our coaches have done there home work and have targeted this guy as someone who can help us and offered him a contract.

Instead of being happy with this, the people on this board choose to put more credibility into Bengal fans who dont know there *** from there elbow.

I will trust the Cowboys would'nt offer him a contract if they felt that he "sucked" as everyone here is saying. I will defer to our coaches who have studied the tape and you all can side with overweight internet football fans and the rankings they have come up with on PFF

Now lets go get Whitney Mercilus at #14

You do realize you are an internet football fan? Are you calling yourself overweight and proclaiming your opinions entirely baseless?

If so, then you can file your trust in the staff to make all the right decisions in the same trash can you want to file every differing opinion in.

You want Mercilus at #14? That sounds like something an overweight internet foolball fan would say. :rolleyes:

[stasheroo]

Call him a homer Stash. You know you want to. :laugh2:


Say it! Say it !!!

Only if the 'you-know-what hurt' comments 'rears' its' ugly head!

:laugh2:

[JBond]

8-8 had alot to do with the defense. How many turnovers did we get in the opponents redzone or side of the field for that matter? How many defensive touchdowns did we get? Despite the number sacks we had what was the 3rd down coversion rate we gave up?

What were Romo's stats for the season? Based on that would you say the offense is still the problem?

So you are on the record as liking this offensive line and believe it is good enough to win a championship. Great. I just happen to disagree.

How many 5 play and out drives did the Cowboys have? Especially in the first half of games? The numbers are ugly in many areas. I happen to believe that long sustained drives that result in scoring will set our defense up better because they will be well rested and ready to go all out. The defense was wasted by the end of games last year. We must keep them fresher.

If you remember many of those long third down completions were completed on someone we cut this week.

[Iago33]

Livings turned 30 today.

The good news is that he's never had more than two false starts or allowed more than two sacks in any season. He also didn't miss a single snap last season.

And we're getting the bad news in the rest of the postings, right?

[stasheroo]

A shame that the lockout got in the way of being able to coach em up in a normal offseason schedule.

Tell that to the rest pf the league.

It didn't seem to hurt teams like the 49'ers who practically had to waer name tags thoughout the organization.

I don't buy that excuse for the Cowboys' failures.

[Kangaroo]

Hey Roo...I understand all that. Just sick and tired of the Cowboys making the same mistakes every year. I am tired of horrible line play. We have had it all before. Strong Oline and pro bowlers at the skill positions. We can again with better decisions. We are wasting Romo's career and it will take Jones another decade to find his replacement. I would like more than one playoff win in the next 15 years. I would have been happy with Grubbs and drafting Decastro, but the first guy is signed and hope is fading on Decastro.

For whatever reason the board consensus seems to be we need a 34 DE over a productive o-line. I disagree with that philosophy

We need line help DE and OLB that is part of the trenches the issue this year in FA was there was not very many solid de or OLB one of the reasons they franchised Spencer. That is not even talking about the thin FS market.

There where a lot of solid guards in play quality players. The Cowboys did upgrade the line and did not go status quo or over spend for a guy like Big in years past. These two signings are similar to the Kyle Kosier signing we had many years ago. Would I prefer to have Nicks heck yea anyone in their right minds would be we are in a salary cap world. So they did what was best for the team at this time and junction.

Yes it is very likely means we will be adding a defensive player in the draft round one but if you look at last year we lost in the trenches along the dline at times last year as well.

[JohnsKey19]

I just have to give Callahan/Garrett the benefit of the doubt on this. On the surface, the OL signings are puzzling but they pretty much targeted these players at the beginning of free agency when more reputable players were available. They must see something in these guys that would indicate they could be more than serviceable in our blocking scheme. We'll see...

[Jaxonsdaddd]

You do realize you are an internet football fan? Are you calling yourself overweight and proclaiming your opinions entirely baseless?

If so, then you can file your trust in the staff to make all the right decisions in the same trash can you want to file every differing opinion in.

You want Mercilus at #14? That sounds like someone an overweight internet foolball fan would say. :rolleyes:


Yes I am an internet football fan but the difference is I am not bashing someone I know nothing about as the rest of the board is. I am saying I dont know either way and dont believe our team picked a name out of a hat and offered him a contract. I feel they like him and offered him a contract and that holds more weight than the joe six pack talent "evaluators" at PFF

[stasheroo]

:laugh2:

You are a joke right now stash. You call "thinking for yourself" poo poo ing on a guy you've never even heard of before a couple days ago? Ok bud.

You think for yourself then.. i think, your thoughts about how good or bad a guy you've never heard of or seen play mean absolutely nothing.

That's what i think. :)

And what makes you think I give a :pee: what you think?

I just watched you get factually pummelled in this very thread and then tuck tail, spin, and run when you did.

[AdamJT13]

And we're getting the bad news in the rest of the postings, right?

Basically.

[Bluestang]

So you are on the record as liking this offensive line and believe it is good enough to win a championship. Great. I just happen to disagree.

How many 5 play and out drives did the Cowboys have? Especially in the first half of games? The numbers are ugly in many areas. I happen to believe that long sustained drives that result in scoring will set our defense up better because they will be well rested and ready to go all out. The defense was wasted by the end of games last year. We must keep them fresher.

If you remember many of those long third down completions were completed on someone we cut this week.


I was arguing the fact that our record was more indicative of the play of our defense. The weakest unit we had was the secondary. I agree that OL can be upgraded but you can't go out and sign pro-bowl type players to every position that you have a hole at. Even with the JAGs we had on the OL our offensive stats were pretty damn good, especially the running game with Murray.

[RoyTheHammer]

And what makes you think I give a :pee: what you think?

I just watched you get factually pummelled in this very thread and then tuck tail, spin, and run when you did.

:laugh2:

I couldn't care less what you think of me, sir. Im simply stating that its a joke to try and evaluate a guy good or bad that you have no clue of and have never watched. I certainly appriciate you keeping your biased score of my discussions with other posters on this site though. Good stuff.

[silverbear]

We are not drafting Cordy Glenn. He is a fatty. Our OL scheme is moving away from fatty OL.

And yet, we've signed a 330 pounder and a player listed at 308, but Jason Garrett said was weighing 325...

[Hoofbite]

And yet, we've signed a 330 pounder and a player listed at 308, but Jason Garrett said was weighing 325...

Yeah, which is odd considering they were moving away from that when Houck was here.......now their going back to it.

So, move away from a guys philosophy that wasn't working and then go back to it when that guy happens to leave.

[silverbear]

I hope this is a joke. Thats putrid. WHY sign this scrub? First signing that make me go W T F ???

You were OK about Bernadeau, but you're pissed about Livings??

That makes no sense to me...

[Woods]

:) I LOVE this move. :starspin



(starting the bandwagon early)

[speedkilz88]

Yeah, which is odd considering they were moving away from that when Houck was here.......now their going back to it.

So, move away from a guys philosophy that wasn't working and then go back to it when that guy happens to leave.They went back to it so that Romo could once again step up in the pocket. Both of these guys move well though.

[Hoofbite]

You were OK about Bernadeau, but you're pissed about Livings??

That makes no sense to me...

The other dude has little experience. At least there's hope he can develop.

This guy's a 3 year starter who's been bad the whole time.

[silverbear]

Guess Redball is done with FA, and Jerrah has taken over. This looks like a Jerrah pick.....

Horrible....Just horrible....Jerrah could not stay away.

Oh, gimme a freakin' break with your anti-Jerry agenda... apparently, in Disturbed's world, every time the Boys do something right, it's Jason's fault, but if they do anything with which he disapproves, it's "bad Jerry" who's to blame...

That's an asinine, child's mindset... I guarantee you both of these moves were driven by Garrett and Callahan...