Fletcher Cox

[CATCH17]

Just looks pretty solid in this vid


knp2RT5Ijsk

controlling the LOS

[DWAREZ]

I have absolutely no idea if the Cowboys select FC but I am absolutely sure that this guy is a good player!

[CowboyFan74]

4-3....

[theogt]

4-3....?????

[CowboyFan74]

?????


We play a 3-4, dude would be considered a bust around here after 2 seasons with 3 sacks per year (Or less.) He's better off playing for a team that runs the 4-3...

[CCBoy]

We play a 3-4, dude would be considered a bust around here after 2 seasons with 3 sacks per year (Or less.) He's better off playing for a team that runs the 4-3...

Sometimes, technique can be coached up. But going on that one film, Cox seemed to be generally light on engaging directly, and spent most of his effort trying to shed and slide off or around a block. Against a strong interior line of Alabama, they were able to nullify his presence, and run around him. He was part of a general effort to muddle the running lanes, but rarely isolated and on his own.

As stated, that would be more of a Leon Lett type of 4-3 player from this group of film sets.

[Canadian BoyzFan]

Cox/DeCastro....end of story.

[GloryDaysRBack]

My gut feeling is he is our #1 target

[dantheman41]

We can only hope... Otherwise Philly is taking him. That's not going to b fun going against him twice a year

[CowboyFan74]

Sometimes, technique can be coached up. But going on that one film, Cox seemed to be generally light on engaging directly, and spent most of his effort trying to shed and slide off or around a block. Against a strong interior line of Alabama, they were able to nullify his presence, and run around him. He was part of a general effort to muddle the running lanes, but rarely isolated and on his own.

As stated, that would be more of a Leon Lett type of 4-3 player from this group of film sets.

Yeah at the pro level he would get pushed out of the play in a 3-4...

[theogt]

We play a 3-4, dude would be considered a bust around here after 2 seasons with 3 sacks per year (Or less.) He's better off playing for a team that runs the 4-3...This guy looks to me to be that rare pass rushing 3-4 DE. I'd bet a good deal of money he averages more than 3 sacks per year in the NFL.

[CCBoy]

This guy looks to me to be that rare pass rushing 3-4 DE. I'd bet a good deal of money he averages more than 3 sacks per year in the NFL.

At this point in discussions, it is not settled if he could in fact hold the point required to function in a 4-3...or be better skilled to shoot gaps as in a 4-3. If he doesn't stand up to the run, then he would be a package player, but coming at the top of the Cowboys' draft.

[theogt]

Sometimes, technique can be coached up. But going on that one film, Cox seemed to be generally light on engaging directly, and spent most of his effort trying to shed and slide off or around a block. Against a strong interior line of Alabama, they were able to nullify his presence, and run around him. He was part of a general effort to muddle the running lanes, but rarely isolated and on his own.

As stated, that would be more of a Leon Lett type of 4-3 player from this group of film sets.

Yeah at the pro level he would get pushed out of the play in a 3-4...What's obvious from that game is he was told to get up field every play. If you watch other games he didn't do that. If you're getting up field you're giving the opponent an opportunity if your teammates can't fill the gap. His teammates couldn't. When he's asked to control the line of scrimmage he does it. When he's asked to get upfield he does it. The guy basically goes wherever he wants because of his unnatural size and speed. It's hard to pass up on a 300 lb lineman who has a burst like a 260 lb 3-4 OLB.

[CowboyFan74]

This guy looks to me to be that rare pass rushing 3-4 DE. I'd bet a good deal of money he averages more than 3 sacks per year in the NFL.

Maybe we could line him up as an OLB and send him after the QB on passing downs, like we did with Greg Ellis. A situational pass rusher at 14? Hmmm...

I guess that's the price you pay for "Premium" pass rushers...

[theogt]

At this point in discussions, it is not settled if he could in fact hold the point required to function in a 4-3...or be better skilled to shoot gaps as in a 4-3. If he doesn't stand up to the run, then he would be a package player, but coming at the top of the Cowboys' draft.Have you watched anything besides this game?

[Chocolate Lab]

Not claiming to be an expert on him, but he's my #1 hope and has been for a while. Very encouraged that we're bringing him in for a visit.

[theogt]

Maybe we could line him up as an OLB and send him after the QB on passing downs, like we did with Greg Ellis. A situational pass rusher at 14? Hmmm...

I guess that's the price you pay for "Premium" pass rushers...or you could line him up at 3-4DE in rushing downs and anywhere along the front in passing schemes.

[CowboyFan74]

or you could line him up at 3-4DE in rushing downs and anywhere along the front in passing schemes.

Well then he will get neutralized more often then not like all the other 3-4 DE's, which are bigger and stronger than he is...

Do we really want to spend a 14rth pick on a guy who Might get 4-6 sacks per year and probably closer to 3-4 sacks per year in a 3-4 scheme?

[theogt]

Well then he will get neutralized more often then not like all the other 3-4 DE's, which are bigger and stronger than he is...

Do we really want to spend a 14rth pick on a guy who Might get 4-6 sacks per year and probably closer to 3-4 sacks per year in a 3-4 scheme?In my opinion, this guy isn't "like all the other 3-4 DEs". You disagree. If you can't see it from watching him play, there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Happy Friday.

[Chocolate Lab]

Well then he will get neutralized more often then not like all the other 3-4 DE's, which are bigger and stronger than he is...

Do we really want to spend a 14rth pick on a guy who Might get 4-6 sacks per year and probably closer to 3-4 sacks per year in a 3-4 scheme?

I think people vastly underestimate how many sacks come on nickel downs. On those downs where you know a pass is coming, you can throw the 34/43 stuff out the window -- you're going to put your four or five best rushers out there to rush the QB. No one is two-gapping on 3rd and 9.

That's why 34 DEs like a Watt or Justin Smith are so valuable.

[GloryDaysRBack]

I think people vastly underestimate how many sacks come on nickel downs. On those downs where you know a pass is coming, you can throw the 34/43 stuff out the window -- you're going to put your four or five best rushers out there to rush the QB. No one is two-gapping on 3rd and 9.

That's why 34 DEs like a Watt or Justin Smith are so valuable.

This^^^^^^

People really arent in tune w how often we are in our nickel formation..probably 40% and it might even be close to 50% of the time

[CowboyFan74]

In my opinion, this guy isn't "like all the other 3-4 DEs". You disagree. If you can't see it from watching him play, there's nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Happy Friday.

Hey it's cool man I'm just happy to be talking about football again. I don't expect you to agree with me. If you've watched him play several games you may see something I don't.

I just checked again he's 6'4', 298lbs (For some reason I was thinking he was closer to 275lbs,) yeah he could play DE in a 3-4, maybe even put on 10-20 lbs if need be.

If he could get 6-8 sacks per year in that position it may be worth it, I dunno....

[CowboyFan74]

I think people vastly underestimate how many sacks come on nickel downs. On those downs where you know a pass is coming, you can throw the 34/43 stuff out the window -- you're going to put your four or five best rushers out there to rush the QB. No one is two-gapping on 3rd and 9.

That's why 34 DEs like a Watt or Justin Smith are so valuable.

That's called a situational pass rusher. Are you saying he's only coming in on obvious passing situations? If so then 14 is a steep price to pay for a part time player...

[Chocolate Lab]

That's called a situational pass rusher. Are you saying he's only coming in on obvious passing situations? If so then 14 is a steep price to pay for a part time player...

No, Watt and Smith aren't situational pass rushers. They play every down. That's the point -- they can do both, so you don't have to take them off the field at any point. On run downs they play 34 DE, but they're athletic and versatile enough to pressure the passer on obvious passing downs. That's what makes them so much more valuable than a Spears... Or on the LB side, a Victor Butler type.

[rags747]

He reminds me somewhat of Jim Jeffcoat, not exactly sure why.

[theogt]

Hey it's cool man I'm just happy to be talking about football again. I don't expect you to agree with me. If you've watched him play several games you may see something I don't.

I just checked again he's 6'4', 298lbs (For some reason I was thinking he was closer to 275lbs,) yeah he could play DE in a 3-4, maybe even put on 10-20 lbs if need be.

If he could get 6-8 sacks per year in that position it may be worth it, I dunno....He certainly moves like he's 275 lbs (or lighter). With a year in NFL strength training I think he'd be crazy good.

[cowboysooner]

He is 6-4, 300 lbs, long enough arms, runs a 4.8, has a running back short shuttle time, knows how to use his hands and has a spin move and makes plays. He can play for anybody. If he can't help you, you should fire your defensive coach.

There are some guys that do some stuff better (Brockers taking on double teams). But you can go years of NFL drafts and not have a 300lbs guy with his burst. I just don't think he gets within 3 picks of us.

[theogt]

Hey man, it was a 4.79. No rounding. :)

How many 300 lb guys in the history of the combine have broken into 4.7s? I'd guess it's only a handful.

[cowboysooner]

I can only think of Geno Atkins at the combine and Tommie Harris at his pro day. Neither are as tall and long as this guy. He is a JPP level freak with some good film.

[SDogo]

I would have no issues with the pick, would actually endorse it but he's not getting number 94!

[AmishCowboy]

Not claiming to be an expert on him, but he's my #1 hope and has been for a while. Very encouraged that we're bringing him in for a visit. Mine too, my pet cat of this draft

[Dash28]

I think people vastly underestimate how many sacks come on nickel downs. On those downs where you know a pass is coming, you can throw the 34/43 stuff out the window -- you're going to put your four or five best rushers out there to rush the QB. No one is two-gapping on 3rd and 9.

That's why 34 DEs like a Watt or Justin Smith are so valuable.
Agreed.

I could see Cox being our Smith,Watt at end.

[CCBoy]

I would have no issues with the pick, would actually endorse it but he's not getting number 94!
(chucklng to self) :)

[MichaelWinicki]

Spears & Coleman... 800+ snaps. 2 sacks, 16 pressures.

I'm betting Cox can do much better.

[supercowboy8]

Cox is the only DT I would take at 14. But I don't see much of a difference between Cox and Reyes or Still.

3-4 DE is a important spot in the 3-4 but I think Reyes Still, and even Winn and Wolfe can do a really good job also.

I think th eonly time you take a 3-4 DE in the top 15 is when he is another Watt, Justin Smith, or Nagata. I don't see any of those players in this draft.

[supercowboy8]

Spears & Coleman... 800+ snaps. 2 sacks, 16 pressures.

I'm betting Cox can do much better.

maybe but can Reyes, Still, or Winn. I think so.

[theogt]

Spears & Coleman... 800+ snaps. 2 sacks, 16 pressures.

I'm betting Cox can do much better.Yeah, that's not good, even for 3-4 DEs. A 4-2 front of Ware, Ratliff, Hatcher and Cox, with Spencer blitzing from the LB spot would be something.

[theogt]

maybe but can Reyes, Still, or Winn. I think so.Massive drop off in talent from Cox to those guys.

[fortdick]

I think people vastly underestimate how many sacks come on nickel downs. On those downs where you know a pass is coming, you can throw the 34/43 stuff out the window -- you're going to put your four or five best rushers out there to rush the QB. No one is two-gapping on 3rd and 9.

That's why 34 DEs like a Watt or Justin Smith are so valuable.

I think most people understand that most sacks come on passing downs.

[fortdick]

Spears & Coleman... 800+ snaps. 2 sacks, 16 pressures.

I'm betting Cox can do much better.

Aren't Hatcher and Lissimore the starters? they had like 6 or 7 combined, didn't they?

[Chuck 54]

We play a 3-4, dude would be considered a bust around here after 2 seasons with 3 sacks per year (Or less.) He's better off playing for a team that runs the 4-3...

You could have a 3-4 DE who didn't get any sacks, but if he beats his man in 1-1 battles or commands double-teams and flushes the QB from the pocket with hurries and hits, he's going to be an impact player for a 3-4 team with a guy like Ware.

We don't need a DE or any DL who gets 10 sacks, though that would be nice, but having a DLineman who gets upfield, makes penetration, and brings a pass rush element that improves the defense would make us soooo much better.

As much as we all love Ratliff, he doesn't give us much at all in pass rush from NT and our DE's are basically invisible men who never get double-teamed and almost never get any push into the backfield. A quality DE, sacks or not, will make a huge difference to Ware and Spencer.

[tm1119]

We play a 3-4, dude would be considered a bust around here after 2 seasons with 3 sacks per year (Or less.) He's better off playing for a team that runs the 4-3...

I agree with this 100%. Cox would be more than solid on the 3-4, but i also feel there are 4 or 5 other guys in this draft that could do the same job. Reyes, Thompson, Worthy, or Still can all do the same job in my opinion and at least 1 should be there at 45. Cox is for sure the best for a 4-3 team though.

[supercowboy8]

Massive drop off in talent from Cox to those guys.
I dont see it a major drop off.

[MichaelWinicki]

Aren't Hatcher and Lissimore the starters? they had like 6 or 7 combined, didn't they?

Hatcher is the starter over Spears, but due to injuries (Hatcher is always hurt... or it seems to be the case), Spears still managed 400 snaps.

Quite often on passing downs Coleman was pulled and Lissmore was in there, but I'm not sure Lissmore is trusted vs the run.

Other teams have the Cowboys at a disadvantage on first downs when they elect to go to the pass. You have one guy, Coleman who's non-existent when it comes to pass rush. And Spencer doesn't pass-rush on first down.

[MichaelWinicki]

maybe but can Reyes, Still, or Winn. I think so.

I like Reyes.

Very similar player to Cox.

If the Cowboys focused on a different position in the first round, I would be A-OK with Reyes in round #2. I don't think Reye's is as explosive as what Cox is but he's athletic.

I wouldn't touch Still. He runs so hot & cold that I wouldn't want him. Plus he's no where near as quick as Cox or Reyes. Winn's hot & cold also. And he relies on power rather than speed. I think he would be better as a 4-3 DT. I think as a 3-4 DE, you're looking at another guy who would contribute a couple sacks a year and a few pressures but wouldn't produce the same pass pass as Cox would.

[dallasfaniac]

Meh, I would have preferred Josh Boyd had he not returned for his Senior season.

[InmanRoshi]

I dont see it a major drop off.

Cox is over a year younger and dominated at a much higher level of competition. Reyes was a nice player, but nothing jaw dropping, at UConn. Reyes wasn't really even considered to be a 2nd round draft pick type of player until he had a nice Senior Bowl week. Cox was 1st team all SEC playing against the best power offensive lines in the country, and is still just scratching his surface. Cox' ceiling is Richard Seymore. Reyes' ceiling is Anthony Pleasant.

[supercowboy8]

Cox is over a year younger and dominated at a much higher level of competition. Reyes was a nice player, but nothing jaw dropping, at UConn. Reyes wasn't really even considered to be a 2nd round draft pick type of player until he had a nice Senior Bowl week. Cox was 1st team all SEC playing against the best power offensive lines in the country, and is still just scratching his surface. Cox' ceiling is Richard Seymore. Reyes' ceiling is Anthony Pleasant.

I disagree, Cox is the better player but he still wasn't dominate in the SEC. I watch every SEC game of every SEC team. Cox layed much better than Brockers did vs the same teams with a worse team. But I don't even consider Brockers a 1st round talent. I like what I see in Reyes. I think Reyes in a late first round pick. Yes Cox is better player in a 4-3 at DT but at 3-4 DE he doesn't seperate as much from Reyes.

Thats what I look at, how these players can perform as a 3-4 DE.
When I do that COx is #1 yes but I don't see him being a dominate 3-4 DE, just like I don't see Reyes, Crick, or Still either so they aren't that far off form each other.

[InmanRoshi]

I disagree, Cox is the better player but he still wasn't dominate in the SEC..

I guess the SEC Coaches who voted him First Team All SEC and SEC Defensive Lineman of the Week four different times last year disagree with you. Brockers wasn't even the best defensive lineman on his own team.

[supercowboy8]

I guess the SEC Coaches who voted him First Team All SEC and SEC Defensive Lineman of the Week four different times last year disagree with you. Brockers wasn't even the best defensive lineman on his own team.

I don't like Brockers so whats your point.

I like Cox, I have said if you can read that he is the best 4-3 DT and even the best 3-4 DE in the draft. I just don't think he is that far apart from Still or Reyes. I just don't see a big drop off from those three.

I would be fine with Cox at 14, like I said many many time that Cox is the best 4-3 DT and best 3-4 DE. But I also wouldn't mind passing on him and getting and DE in the 2nd or 3rd.

If Cox is another Seymour then he should pick top 5.

[Dcowboy84]

my wish list for round 1 right now is Barron/Cox so i would have no problem with him at all.

definitely looks like a great potential 3-4 DE

the only part that has me favoring Barron right now is the depth at defensive line that there seems to be in this draft vs the depth at safety.

most draft experts have been saying that the defensive line is pretty deep in this draft, whereas after Barron and Smith the drop off at safety is vast

[InmanRoshi]

I think most people understand that most sacks come on passing downs.

The trouble is that a lot of people dont understand that defenses play a lot differently on passing downs, and a lot of defensive players line up in different positions on passing downs.

[cowboy_ron]

Cox/DeCastro....end of story.
That's the way I see it too