Barron and DeCastro: smokescreens?

[Chuck 54]

No, I don't believe we are really at all interested in drafting a G in round one after bringing in Nagy, Arkin, and Kowalski last year and signing two Gs in FA this year. I think we are praying someone else will buy into the hype and take an OG before 14, dropping others to us. If we were at all interested in OL, I think we'd take Glenn somewhere in round one due to his size and experience at T. I'd also take DeCastro's partner on the line, Martin, at OT, and move Free inside.

No, I don't think we're really interested in Barron either. The guy doesn't have elite speed...just decent at 4.55. The guy is not considered a good man coverage guy, but more of an in the box safety, yet he's been hurt two years in a row...first a torn pectoral; then a double hernia which has limited his evaluation since the combine. I think we prefer Sensy in the box and covering TEs...the signing of Poole tells me we are looking for a center fielder who can make plays on the ball and cover...that's not Barron's MO....it's a wishful projection for #14. I'm not convinced he'd start over Sensy or Poole except on the goal line.

I really think the Cowboys are eyeballing a combination of DE, OLB, or CB at 14, and they love being associated with OG and over-rated S in hopes that both eat up spots before #14. I think we look elsewhere at 14 or trade down to secure an extra pick.

I think we want to come out of this draft with C, WR, TE on one side and DL, CB, OLB on the other side while also finding a returner (I love the L. James projections for round 3).

[rash]

Don't worry Chuck. Your prediction is no better than anyone else's at this point. Who do you want us to get Chuckaroo?

[Chuck 54]

Don't worry Chuck. Your prediction is no better than anyone else's at this point. Who do you want us to get Chuckaroo?

I'm 100 % on board with Fletcher Cox.

[GloryDaysRBack]

lmao at 4.55 being decent speed..the guy is a safety, not a cornerback

[AMERICAS_FAN]

I want Hightower. Team captain and IMHO the best player on that Bama defense - better than Barron, Upshaw and Kirkpatrick

[Chuck 54]

lmao at 4.55 being decent speed..the guy is a safety, not a cornerback

So a half second slower at 4.6 wouldn't bother you?

The point was Barron does not have any particular aspect making him special...he doesn't have man to man skills...yet...he doesn't have impressive catch up speed like some formerly high first round picks at safety.

Every scouting report I've read call him an instinctive, downhill in the box safety.

I don't see that as a priority for us, and I don't want to see Sensy in the deep patrol frankly.

[jnday]

So a half second slower at 4.6 wouldn't bother you?

The point was Barron does not have any particular aspect making him special...he doesn't have man to man skills...yet...he doesn't have impressive catch up speed like some formerly high first round picks at safety.

Every scouting report I've read call him an instinctive, downhill in the box safety.

I don't see that as a priority for us, and I don't want to see Sensy in the deep patrol frankly.

Great post . Barron at 14 would be a waste .

[GloryDaysRBack]

Great post . Barron at 14 would be a waste .

great post? lmfao

half a second doesnt = 4.6

even if he got it right..half a tenth is A LOT...

nice try

[Risen Star]

I hope the Cowboys draft talent and not positions like ole Chuck is suggesting.

[jnday]

great post? lmfao

half a second doesnt = 4.6

even if he got it right..half a tenth is A LOT...

nice try

Chuck made good points . You may not like them , but his evaluation was correct or at the very least , it sounded good .

[Dash28]

Chuck made good points . You may not like them , but his evaluation was correct or at the very least , it sounded good .
His evaulation was correct because you like the sound of it?

:laugh2:

[btcutter]

great post? lmfao

half a second doesnt = 4.6

even if he got it right..half a tenth is A LOT...

nice try

Regarding speed and not on Barron.

S position is about play recognition and instinct. Those counts for at least a FULL second if not more. That's how plays are made. Sure raw speed is bonus but I take instinct and intelligence at that S position any day.

[GloryDaysRBack]

Regarding speed and not on Barron.

S position is about play recognition and instinct. Those counts for at least a FULL second if not more. That's how plays are made. Sure raw speed is bonus but I take instinct and intelligence at that S position any day.

just so happens to be barrons greatest strengths...instincts and intelligence..

[jnday]

His evaulation was correct because you like the sound of it?

:laugh2:

Yeah , I like the way it sounded . LOL
Actually , his points on catch up speed was spot on . Barron is slightly above average , nothing special . I am tired of average . At 14 , I expect more . Slightly above average can be drafted in the second round .

[AKATheRake]

Yeah , I like the way it sounded . LOL
Actually , his points on catch up speed was spot on . Barron is slightly above average , nothing special . I am tired of average . At 14 , I expect more . Slightly above average can be drafted in the second round .

You've got corner and safety mixed up.

By the way, half the corners at the combine can't even run a 40 in 4.55 seconds. Let alone while recovering from a double hernia.

When covering deep zone, the balls in front of a safety typically. Therefore they need breaking speed on the ball to make the play.

Some safeties will periodically cover the slot and the WR playing it. Orlando Scandrick is our highly paid slot corner, regardless of what is thought of him.

Now in the box coverage behind and between the LB's to cover TE's and RB's is not an issue for Barron and matches up very well in those "coverage" responsibilities. That's typically what safeties not in a cover 2 or 3 zone scheme are asked to do coverage wise.

[Beast_from_East]

No, I don't believe we are really at all interested in drafting a G in round one after bringing in Nagy, Arkin, and Kowalski last year and signing two Gs in FA this year. I think we are praying someone else will buy into the hype and take an OG before 14, dropping others to us. If we were at all interested in OL, I think we'd take Glenn somewhere in round one due to his size and experience at T. I'd also take DeCastro's partner on the line, Martin, at OT, and move Free inside.

No, I don't think we're really interested in Barron either. The guy doesn't have elite speed...just decent at 4.55. The guy is not considered a good man coverage guy, but more of an in the box safety, yet he's been hurt two years in a row...first a torn pectoral; then a double hernia which has limited his evaluation since the combine. I think we prefer Sensy in the box and covering TEs...the signing of Poole tells me we are looking for a center fielder who can make plays on the ball and cover...that's not Barron's MO....it's a wishful projection for #14. I'm not convinced he'd start over Sensy or Poole except on the goal line.

I really think the Cowboys are eyeballing a combination of DE, OLB, or CB at 14, and they love being associated with OG and over-rated S in hopes that both eat up spots before #14. I think we look elsewhere at 14 or trade down to secure an extra pick.

I think we want to come out of this draft with C, WR, TE on one side and DL, CB, OLB on the other side while also finding a returner (I love the L. James projections for round 3).


Who knows, it could all be a smokescreen and they are really wanting a pass rusher at 14.


I guess we will find out in 2 weeks, I cant wait.:D

[jnday]

You've got corner and safety mixed up.

By the way, half the corners at the combine can't even run a 40 in 4.55 seconds. Let alone while recovering from a double hernia.

When covering deep zone, the balls in front of a safety typically. Therefore they need breaking speed on the ball to make the play.

Some safeties will periodically cover the slot and the WR playing it. Orlando Scandrick is our highly paid slot corner, regardless of what is thought of him.

Now in the box coverage behind and between the LB's to cover TE's and RB's is not an issue for Barron and matches up very well in those "coverage" responsibilities. That's typically what safeties not in a cover 2 or 3 zone scheme are asked to do coverage wise.
I'm not mixed up at all . The area that Barron struggles in coverage with is turning his hips and keeping up with the recievers . It has been listed as a problem for him again and again . Roy Williams was always a step behind . Barron is usually 3/4 step behind . Is a safety with average cover skills worth a 14 th pick ? You say yes , I say no . I expect and want more from the 14th pick . With a second round pick , you expect average coverage skills .

[stasheroo]

I hope the Cowboys draft talent and not positions like ole Chuck is suggesting.


I'm with ya.

'Pass on the hype' of 'the next Steve Hutchinson' because we drafted Arkin and Nagy and signed Kowalski, an undrafted free agent?

And then people have the nerve to then ask why the offensive line continues to struggle?

:rolleyes:

[Leadbelly]

Why create all of these smokescreens? Seems easier to just not say anything.

Less than a smokescreen, I think Garrett stopping by the Alabama pro day has been severely over-analyzed and that's the media's source of the Barron interest. "Well, last year he went to USC and Dallas picked Tyron Smith." That's the kind of logic a lab rat would use to get a treat.

I just don't view him as much more than a Kenny Phillips with NY - taken 31st overall - which is where Barron would go in a good draft.

As far as DeCastro, the team has barely shown interest, real or fake.

[burmafrd]

LMAO at someone that cannot even recognize superior talent. But go ahead Chuck, you are amusing.

[InmanRoshi]

If we were truly interested in DeCastro, at the very least, I think we would have sent Callahan out to scout his Pro Day rather than sending the TE coach out to scout Fleener. So Garrett goes from being super-dilligent sending himself and Houck out to personally watch T. Smith at USC, and sending him to Valley Ranch for a personal one on one visit, to make the 9th pick in the draft in 2010, but he's not even going to bother to send the position coach to watch DeCastro workout for a pick just 5 spots later in 2011? I have a hard time believing Garrett just got that carefree and flippant about the vetting process for a Top 15 pick in the course of a year.

[stasheroo]

If we were truly interested in DeCastro, at the very least, I think we would have sent Callahan out to scout his Pro Day rather than sending the TE coach out to scout Fleener. So Garrett goes from being super-dilligent sending himself and Houck out to personally watch T. Smith at USC, and sending him to Valley Ranch for a personal one on one visit, to make the 9th pick in the draft in 2010, but he's not even going to bother to send the position coach to watch DeCastro workout for a pick just 5 spots later in 2011? I have a hard time believing Garrett just got that carefree and flippant about the vetting process for a Top 15 pick in the course of a year.

I would prefer to think that they are hiding interest over the thought of them going back to status quo and their poor track record of thinking they can find offensive linemen later.

They were fortunate enough to be in position to draft an obvious talent at an obvious position of need like Tyron Smith last year and now they have a quality lineman for the next decade.

They are now again in position to draft another obvious talent at an obvious position of need in DeCastro this year and have another quality lineman for the next decade.

I can only hope they are smart enough to realize the opportunity that they again have.

[cowboyuptx]

Great post . Barron at 14 would be a waste .

Agreed... Bobby Carpenter all over again...

My dream pick would be Melvin Ingram, but it's looking doubtful that he'll fall even close to 14...

Also wouldn't mind Luke Kuechly, I know we have Lee and Carter, but I think this guy is at least a cut above Carter... Wouldn't hurt to have 3 good young ILB's anyhow...

If it really is to be a member of the Crimson Tide at 14, then it had better be Upshaw! Between Kirkpatrick, Barron, and Upshaw, Courtney Upshaw is the only one worth a shot at 14... And personally, I find the defense is in desperate need of another legit pass-rusher...

Any one of Poe, Cox, or Brockers would make for a sufficient consolation prize...

I would find a selection of DeCastro marginally acceptable...

[burmafrd]

I would prefer to think that they are hiding interest over the thought of them going back to status quo and their poor track record of thinking they can find offensive linemen later.

They were fortunate enough to be in position to draft an obvious talent at an obvious position of need like Tyron Smith last year and now they have a quality lineman for the next decade.

They are now again in position to draft another obvious talent at an obvious position of need in DeCastro this year and have another quality lineman for the next decade.

I can only hope they are smart enough to realize the opportunity that they again have.


and by the way Red Ball's brother was at the Stanford Pro day. Was he really looking at Luck?

[Chuck 54]

LMAO at someone that cannot even recognize superior talent. But go ahead Chuck, you are amusing.

I'm happy I could bring a smile of amusement to an otherwise dull day. :)

It's just an opinion, just a thought, like those of everyone else, and most of our opinions change from week to week during the process. I see clips; I watch a few games, and I read reports. I'm not studying film or pretending to be an expert.

If Barron is the draft pick, I'll be happy. If DeCastro is the selection, I'll be happy. If they manage to get Cox, I'm happy. If they trade completely out of round one and draft a Center, WR, CB, OLB, etc., I'm happy. On draft day I assume the coaches know the players and the scheme and make the correct choice.

If it's Barron, and he turns out to be our starting safety for the next 5-6 years and plays well, I'll be thrilled. It's just my opinion that he's not automatically going to walk in at Valley Ranch and be better than Sensabaugh or Poole...that's why I question the pick.

[casmith07]

Last year the only pro day that Jason Garrett attended was USC.

Take from that what you will.

[burmafrd]

I'm happy I could bring a smile of amusement to an otherwise dull day. :)

It's just an opinion, just a thought, like those of everyone else, and most of our opinions change from week to week during the process. I see clips; I watch a few games, and I read reports. I'm not studying film or pretending to be an expert.

If Barron is the draft pick, I'll be happy. If DeCastro is the selection, I'll be happy. If they manage to get Cox, I'm happy. If they trade completely out of round one and draft a Center, WR, CB, OLB, etc., I'm happy. On draft day I assume the coaches know the players and the scheme and make the correct choice.

If it's Barron, and he turns out to be our starting safety for the next 5-6 years and plays well, I'll be thrilled. It's just my opinion that he's not automatically going to walk in at Valley Ranch and be better than Sensabaugh or Poole...that's why I question the pick.

I would throw something large and heavy at the TV if we stay at 14 and pick Barron. Way too high for him

[stasheroo]

and by the way Red Ball's brother was at the Stanford Pro day. Was he really looking at Luck?

Some would have us believe that the 'braintrust' was looking to draft yet another backup TE in round 2.

(Since the past two times they've done it worked out so well...)

[stasheroo]

I'm happy I could bring a smile of amusement to an otherwise dull day. :)

It's just an opinion, just a thought, like those of everyone else, and most of our opinions change from week to week during the process. I see clips; I watch a few games, and I read reports. I'm not studying film or pretending to be an expert.

If Barron is the draft pick, I'll be happy. If DeCastro is the selection, I'll be happy. If they manage to get Cox, I'm happy. If they trade completely out of round one and draft a Center, WR, CB, OLB, etc., I'm happy. On draft day I assume the coaches know the players and the scheme and make the correct choice.

If it's Barron, and he turns out to be our starting safety for the next 5-6 years and plays well, I'll be thrilled. It's just my opinion that he's not automatically going to walk in at Valley Ranch and be better than Sensabaugh or Poole...that's why I question the pick.

Can't argue with your approach.

I wish I could but I feel I'll inevitably set myself up for disappointment!

:D

[Chuck 54]

Can't argue with your approach.

I wish I could but I feel I'll inevitably set myself up for disappointment!

:D

Hey, even though we knew Tyron Smith was the smart selection last year, I'll admit that I was hoping for someone more exciting at another position, but after the selection was made, it was certainly the correct one.

We all want an exciting, difference maker at #14, but the truth is that there are usually only 4-6 super blue chippers in each draft. The most important thing at #14, despite what and whom we all think is most important, is that we get a solid starter for the next 5-6 years, regardless of position.

He doesn't have to start on opening day this fall, but he has to be in the rotation, making a difference and making us a better team.

I think that could happen on the DL, in the secondary, on the OL, at WR.

However, if a miracle happens and a top rated prospect slides to us at 14, then you take him whether you need him or not, imo.

[InmanRoshi]

I would prefer to think that they are hiding interest over the thought of them going back to status quo and their poor track record of thinking they can find offensive linemen later.

They were fortunate enough to be in position to draft an obvious talent at an obvious position of need like Tyron Smith last year and now they have a quality lineman for the next decade.

They are now again in position to draft another obvious talent at an obvious position of need in DeCastro this year and have another quality lineman for the next decade.

I can only hope they are smart enough to realize the opportunity that they again have.

Yeah, quite a bit of difference between being fortunate enough to draft a franchise left tackle and a right guard. Franchise left tackles go in the Top 15 picks every year because they're extremely rare. Right guards never go in the Top 15 picks, because they're not that hard to find.

[stasheroo]

Yeah, quite a bit of difference between being fortunate enough to draft a franchise left tackle and a right guard. Franchise left tackles go in the Top 15 picks every year because they're extremely rare. Right guards never go in the Top 15 picks, because they're not that hard to find.

It seems to me that when teams do find good guards, they pay them.

The Saints were happy to have Evans and Nicks while they did and moved quickly to replace Nicks with Grubbs when they lost him.

And I'm personally not hung up on the number 14 or 15 either. From what I see, over the past decade plus, the interior linemen that have been scouted and deemed as worthy of first round selection have more than panned out.

I think DeCastro is certainly considered as such a value.

[Gaede]

Free agency is not the same as the draft.

Sure teams will pay big money to a proven all-pro G. But that being so, they STILL don't invest a top 15 pick on the position. Mainly because they can get more important positions filled with that pick and then go around a develop an all-pro guard from the 4th round. Or buy one in free agency.

[stasheroo]

Free agency is not the same as the draft.

Sure teams will pay big money to a proven all-pro G. But that being so, they STILL don't invest a top 15 pick on the position. Mainly because they can get more important positions filled with that pick and then go around a develop an all-pro guard from the 4th round. Or buy one in free agency.

Teams draft interior linemen - guards and centers in round 1 quite frequently with great success I might add.

Conversely, the Cowboys struggle drafting them and are forced to sign free agents like Marco Rivera, Leonard Davis, Kyle Kosier, Nate Livings, Mackenzie Bernardeau, etc.

With decidedly mixed results...

[ware1manarmy]

lmao at 4.55 being decent speed..the guy is a safety, not a cornerback
D, Ware ran that fast. do you want him covering the 3rd WRs and RBs? on a regular basis?

[btcutter]

D, Ware ran that fast. do you want him covering the 3rd WRs and RBs? on a regular basis?

does he get beat consistently deep?

40 time is nice but what's game speed?

4.55 is plenty fast for safety. Again, it's instinct and play recognition that are most important as a S.

don't get too caught up on 40's. for most part its just underwear olympics.

[cowboysooner]

Teams draft interior linemen - guards and centers in round 1 quite frequently with great success I might add.

Conversely, the Cowboys struggle drafting them and are forced to sign free agents like Marco Rivera, Leonard Davis, Kyle Kosier, Nate Livings, Mackenzie Bernardeau, etc.

With decidedly mixed results...



Stash, nobody in the NFL makes a habit of drafting 1st round guards and centers. Teams take quarterbacks high, tackles high, corners high, defensive linemen high and big wide receivers high.

[InmanRoshi]

Please if it were any other offensive guard drafted in the Top 15 picks these same people would be throwing their remotes at the TVs.

Only our Little Davey Wavey Poo is worth drafting in the Top 15. He's the dreamiest.

[Phrozen Phil]

I hope the Cowboys draft talent and not positions like ole Chuck is suggesting.

Agreed. Let's not reach. Last year we got good talent for our O-line, LB, and RB. I like the idea of BPA, but also believe we can address need without compromising value.

[jblaze2004]

does he get beat consistently deep?

40 time is nice but what's game speed?

4.55 is plenty fast for safety. Again, it's instinct and play recognition that are most important as a S.

don't get too caught up on 40's. for most part its just underwear olympics.

this......if you want someone with a fast 40 we would of just keep ASA.:cool:

Ill take a guy with instincts. Instincts will get you to the spot faster than a fast guy thinking slow or a fast guy just lost.

[stasheroo]

Please if it were any other offensive guard drafted in the Top 15 picks these same people would be throwing their remotes at the TVs.

Only our Little Davey Wavey Poo is worth drafting in the Top 15. He's the dreamiest.

Ouch! Sounds like it hurts!

[btcutter]

this......if you want someone with a fast 40 we would of just keep ASA.:cool:

Ill take a guy with instincts. Instincts will get you to the spot faster than a fast guy thinking slow or a fast guy just lost.

Yes, ASA was a good example of an incredible athlete that can't play football.

BTW, Ed Reeds 40 time was 4.57. I just watched some Ed Reed college highlights and just don't understand how he lasted into the 20's in the 1st round. He was dynamic.

[jterrell]

Teams draft interior linemen - guards and centers in round 1 quite frequently with great success I might add.

Conversely, the Cowboys struggle drafting them and are forced to sign free agents like Marco Rivera, Leonard Davis, Kyle Kosier, Nate Livings, Mackenzie Bernardeau, etc.

With decidedly mixed results...

That is simply not even close to true.

Int OL are not drafted frequently in r1 and it is a decade long rarity for them to go 14 or higher.

It is one thing to have an opinion but another to just be outright dishonest.

Last year there was Pouncey and Watkins... neither set the world on fire.
Watkins was actually just a pure disappointment.
But many years there wasn't any 1st round interior OL.
Or they were at pick 29, or 31.

That isn't close to being the same thing as pick 14.
Markice Pouncey has been excellent at OC. The Steelers had a great defense and fairly few holes anywhere.
The best OG draftee is probably Iupati. He was also drafted a by a team full of high R1 talent because the franchise drafted high forever it seems. Yet and still the guy who has SF excite dis Aldon Smith not Iupati.

But I'd take Haloti Ngata or BJ Raji over both those interior guys right now.
It is just too hard to find even mediocre players along the DL while you can hire a free agent mediocre OG any time.

[cowboysooner]

That is simply not even close to true.

Int OL are not drafted frequently in r1 and it is a decade long rarity for them to go 14 or higher.

It is one thing to have an opinion but another to just be outright dishonest.

Last year there was Pouncey and Watkins... neither set the world on fire.
Watkins was actually just a pure disappointment.
But many years there wasn't any 1st round interior OL.
Or they were at pick 29, or 31.

That isn't close to being the same thing as pick 14.
Markice Pouncey has been excellent at OC. The Steelers had a great defense and fairly few holes anywhere.
The best OG draftee is probably Iupati. He was also drafted a by a team full of high R1 talent because the franchise drafted high forever it seems. Yet and still the guy who has SF excite dis Aldon Smith not Iupati.

But I'd take Haloti Ngata or BJ Raji over both those interior guys right now.
It is just too hard to find even mediocre players along the DL while you can hire a free agent mediocre OG any time.

Stephen Bowen makes $1mm less than Ben Grubbs. Chris Canty makes $1mm more. Neither are Calais Campbell or Darnell Docket, but both are more in demand than anyone in our 4 man rotation.

[stasheroo]

That is simply not even close to true.

Int OL are not drafted frequently in r1 and it is a decade long rarity for them to go 14 or higher.

Again, unlike you, I am not fixated on numbers, 14 or otherwise.

It is one thing to have an opinion but another to just be outright dishonest.

Last year there was Pouncey and Watkins... neither set the world on fire.
Watkins was actually just a pure disappointment.
But many years there wasn't any 1st round interior OL.
Or they were at pick 29, or 31.

My quote states 'decade plus' and you try to reduce that to 2011 and then claim I'm being dishonest?

That isn't close to being the same thing as pick 14.
Markice Pouncey has been excellent at OC. The Steelers had a great defense and fairly few holes anywhere.
The best OG draftee is probably Iupati. He was also drafted a by a team full of high R1 talent because the franchise drafted high forever it seems. Yet and still the guy who has SF excite dis Aldon Smith not Iupati.

Pouncey (both), Iupati, Mangold, Mankins, Hutchinson, Alex Mack, Eric Wood,
Ben Grubbs, Davin Joseph, all the way back to Hutchinson in '01. When teams have taken interior linemen in round 1, their return on investment has been very good.

But I'd take Haloti Ngata or BJ Raji over both those interior guys right now.
It is just too hard to find even mediocre players along the DL while you can hire a free agent mediocre OG any time.

And that's what we've been getting, 'mediocre OG's' with the expected underwhelming results.

We continue to have to go out and sign Marco Rivera, Leonard Davis, Kyle Kosier, and now Bernardeau and Livings because we have repeatedly failed to identify and acquire any talent at that position through the draft.

The team's history clearly shows that they have done an abysmal job of it and have repeatedly needed free agency to correct that problem.

[erod]

Draft DeCastro, and the Cowboys have the best left side o-line in the league for 10 years.

Somehow get Konz, too, and the Cowboys have the best offensive LINE for the next 10 years.