Vic Koenning... Comment Regarding Whitney

[SDogo]

Vic Koenning is the Defensive Coordinator for Illinois, back in 2005 from 2008 he was the DC at Clemson. He still comes to town often for a charity he belongs to. While in town I suggested to a radio show I have some dealing with that they feature a draft segment and see if they can get Koenning in.

While he was not able to make to the station he did a interview over the phone that the station will air.

While talking about A.J. Jenkins because of his work with Koenning's charity he mentioned that several kids at Illinois were high character and that Whitney recently signed a bunch of stuff to be sold at an auction for him. He then went on a 5 minute rant about how great of a player Whitney is and the last time he has ever coached someone with his skill set was when he coached DeMarcus Ware at Troy. Little did I know till he said it was there a connection there. He said Whitney has the "want to" and the explosive ability Ware showed and believed he can be every bit the player Ware is. Koenning said he does not say that lightly because he and Ware are very close and thinks Ware is the premiere pass rusher in the NFL but he see's every bit of Ware in Whitney.

[NeonDeion21]

Likely candidate for Dallas in a trade down? I love this guys length, athletic ability and his motor. I believe he has the highest ceiling of the pass rushers.

[Dcowboy84]

great stuff

quite a lofty comparison using arguably the best defensive player in the NFL.

but if anyone can have the authority to name drop Ware this would be the guy

[SDogo]

Likely candidate for Dallas in a trade down? I love this guys length, athletic ability and his motor. I believe he has the highest ceiling of the pass rushers.

I would not mind, I'm just not comfortable doing it at 14. I don't think he is going to drop far despite some rumblings he could. Pass rushers are at a premium this year and with Whitney's ceiling some team is going to take that shot.

[Eskimo]

I would not mind, I'm just not comfortable doing it at 14. I don't think he is going to drop far despite some rumblings he could. Pass rushers are at a premium this year and with Whitney's ceiling some team is going to take that shot.

Early 20s for Mercilus, say 20-23?

I've had dreams of dropping to 33 and getting him but it sounds like that isn't going to happen.

Oh well, if we trade down a bit and draft him we won't do the flier on Bruce Irvin that I have favoured so we save ourselves a pick there.

[Oh_Canada]

Early 20s for Mercilus, say 20-23?

I've had dreams of dropping to 33 and getting him but it sounds like that isn't going to happen.

Oh well, if we trade down a bit and draft him we won't do the flier on Bruce Irvin that I have favoured so we save ourselves a pick there.

Zero chance Mercilus fallls to #33. Everyone is looking at the Giants right now as the model and the model says pass rush, pass rush, pass rush.

[RS12]

One year wonders make me nervous. If they could trade down get him and a second two, that would be OK.

[CowboysYanksLakers]

Ware is going to destroy the sack record books... Hard to believe this kid will be on that level.

[Sasquatch]

Pretty high praise. A month ago I thought Marcilus was a possibility at #14 but it seems a bit high unless management has plans for Spencer's departure.

[Eskimo]

Pretty high praise. A month ago I thought Marcilus was a possibility at #14 but it seems a bit high unless management has plans for Spencer's departure.

I know some consider it unpopular but if we draft Mercilus in round one we should release Spencer so we can save the cap space and use it next year while we throw Mercilus to the wolves out there.

I know some won't accept it and don't want to hear it but we aren't going to be ready in 2012. The OL is being rebuilt again, the front 7 needs more talent and secondary needs more talent - it'll take a year to draft and bring in those players and then have them gel. Cutting Spencer this year, our non-contending year, gives us $8.8M extra cap dollars to push into next year's cap and would nearly entirely undo the effect of the salary cap penalty that was imposed upon us.

[jjktkk]

Thanks for posting this Sdogo.

[M'Kevon]

I know some consider it unpopular but if we draft Mercilus in round one we should release Spencer so we can save the cap space and use it next year while we throw Mercilus to the wolves out there.

I know some won't accept it and don't want to hear it but we aren't going to be ready in 2012. The OL is being rebuilt again, the front 7 needs more talent and secondary needs more talent - it'll take a year to draft and bring in those players and then have them gel. Cutting Spencer this year, our non-contending year, gives us $8.8M extra cap dollars to push into next year's cap and would nearly entirely undo the effect of the salary cap penalty that was imposed upon us.

No such thing.

NY was 6-6, with a 4 game losing streak on Dec. 10, 7-7 as of the morn of Christmas Eve.

There is no such thing as "not ready" when all it takes is to be average thru November, then get hot (or gel).

[Dash28]

Where do you believe he will go in the draft?

14 seems a little on the high side. Possibly a trade down in the 19-25 range?

[Bluestang]

I know some consider it unpopular but if we draft Mercilus in round one we should release Spencer so we can save the cap space and use it next year while we throw Mercilus to the wolves out there.

I know some won't accept it and don't want to hear it but we aren't going to be ready in 2012. The OL is being rebuilt again, the front 7 needs more talent and secondary needs more talent - it'll take a year to draft and bring in those players and then have them gel. Cutting Spencer this year, our non-contending year, gives us $8.8M extra cap dollars to push into next year's cap and would nearly entirely undo the effect of the salary cap penalty that was imposed upon us.


I agree with you that this team is not ready to contend this year because we have too many holes and so many unknowns. The 2009 draft, the Roy Williams trade, and the high price veteran contract penalties have taken their toll. Next year we should be in prime position so long as we continue with our draft trends from the previous two years.

[Idgit]

...I love this guys length, athletic ability and his motor.

Can't we all just agree that this is a horrible phrase that should never be used in a draft context?


...He then went on a 5 minute rant about how great of a player Whitney is and the last time he has ever coached someone with his skill set was when he coached DeMarcus Ware at Troy. Little did I know till he said it was there a connection there. He said Whitney has the "want to" and the explosive ability Ware showed and believed he can be every bit the player Ware is. Koenning said he does not say that lightly because he and Ware are very close and thinks Ware is the premiere pass rusher in the NFL but he see's every bit of Ware in Whitney.

If this is remotely true, you can take the guy at 14 and not give it a second thought. It doesn't matter where he's expected to go if your scouts and sources say he's got the ability to be the best pass rusher in the NFL.

That said, this same thing's probably going to end up being said about 10 defenders in this draft before it's all said and done. When you have access to tidbits like this, it's got to make it so hard to decide which of them to believe. Especially when they come from sources like this, with experience with current players they can compare the draft prospects to.

[fanfromvirginia]

Likely candidate for Dallas in a trade down? I love this guys length, athletic ability and his motor. I believe he has the highest ceiling of the pass rushers.
One reason I expect us to trade down, maybe as far as near the end of the round, is that there are several guys who I think Dallas really likes, including Mercilus, who are generally expected to be available after 14. Each guy could be long gone by the time we trade down and select but there is a low probability that all of them are gone. The other reason is that it seems we may get some good offers.

[fanfromvirginia]

I know some consider it unpopular but if we draft Mercilus in round one we should release Spencer so we can save the cap space and use it next year while we throw Mercilus to the wolves out there.

I know some won't accept it and don't want to hear it but we aren't going to be ready in 2012. The OL is being rebuilt again, the front 7 needs more talent and secondary needs more talent - it'll take a year to draft and bring in those players and then have them gel. Cutting Spencer this year, our non-contending year, gives us $8.8M extra cap dollars to push into next year's cap and would nearly entirely undo the effect of the salary cap penalty that was imposed upon us.
I for one agree and would say the same for a few others, especially McClellin.

[Chuck 54]

Ware relies on beating the OT at or before the snap. Mercilus had a ten yard run time that was down with the running backs.

[Randy White]

mocked him at 11 to Seattle on my last mock and I haven't seen any concrete evidence to change my mind.

[burmafrd]

Tap the brakes a little on this. Coaches are prone to hyperboly on their players.

Sorry I do not see in Merciless what Ware has. Not in the same class.

[Eskimo]

Tap the brakes a little on this. Coaches are prone to hyperboly on their players.

Sorry I do not see in Merciless what Ware has. Not in the same class.

Mercilus is not a Ware but it is interesting that his former coach would speak so highly of Mercilus in terms of Ware.

You do have to remember that Ware never put up a season like Mercilus did last season while at Troy and presumably playing against on average lesser competition.

Mercilus is not quite the athlete Ware is but he is probably more advanced than Ware was at the time of the draft in having a decent passrush move.

The other thing I want to mention about the kid is his determination and make up. Remember how Ware was finishing his degree while driving long distances for his pre-draft workouts - that sold me on him. I think Mercilus has demonstrated similar type character traits that make me very comfortable with the thought of taking him in the first. However, I think I'd like to trade down into the early 20s.

[Eskimo]

No such thing.

NY was 6-6, with a 4 game losing streak on Dec. 10, 7-7 as of the morn of Christmas Eve.

There is no such thing as "not ready" when all it takes is to be average thru November, then get hot (or gel).

NY was underachieving last year up until that point - they had much superior talent on defense both in the front 7 and in the secondary. They also have equal talent on offense with the development of Cruz and the play of Eli down the stretch and in the clutch plus the emergence of the young OL.

I know I won't convince the board but we aren't ready to contend for the SB - we can't beat that many quality teams in a row. We couldn't do it in 2011 and we won't be able to do it in 2012. Time will show whose interpretation is correct.

I truly believe that I am right here - if we go OLB in round one Spencer will be released from his franchise tender.

[burmafrd]

Mercilus is not a Ware but it is interesting that his former coach would speak so highly of Mercilus in terms of Ware.

You do have to remember that Ware never put up a season like Mercilus did last season while at Troy and presumably playing against on average lesser competition.

Mercilus is not quite the athlete Ware is but he is probably more advanced than Ware was at the time of the draft in having a decent passrush move.

The other thing I want to mention about the kid is his determination and make up. Remember how Ware was finishing his degree while driving long distances for his pre-draft workouts - that sold me on him. I think Mercilus has demonstrated similar type character traits that make me very comfortable with the thought of taking him in the first. However, I think I'd like to trade down into the early 20s.

Just not as good as ware; just do not see it.

[Eskimo]

Just not as good as ware; just do not see it.

Of course he doesn't have Ware's ceiling - only JPP does.

[honyock]

One reason I expect us to trade down, maybe as far as near the end of the round, is that there are several guys who I think Dallas really likes, including Mercilus, who are generally expected to be available after 14. Each guy could be long gone by the time we trade down and select but there is a low probability that all of them are gone. The other reason is that it seems we may get some good offers.

Agreed, and the Mrecilus info makes me suspect even more that the team would jump at the chance to trade down to the 20-22 range. They might have their choice of Mercilus, DeCastro if he slides, or Kirkpatrick/Gilmore in addition to the extra high pick.

[DBOY3141]

Ware is going to destroy the sack record books... Hard to believe this kid will be on that level.


Did you think Ware was going to do what he is doing today when he came out of Troy.

I think prior to the Senior Bowl, no one had even heard of Ware.

You just never know when it comes to players.

[theogt]

No such thing.

NY was 6-6, with a 4 game losing streak on Dec. 10, 7-7 as of the morn of Christmas Eve.

There is no such thing as "not ready" when all it takes is to be average thru November, then get hot (or gel).Yup, there's a very thin line between the top teams and the average teams. That's just parity in practice. To write off any season would be utterly foolish.

[burmafrd]

Of course he doesn't have Ware's ceiling - only JPP does.


Not sure about that. Maybe but only one year so far

[burmafrd]

Did you think Ware was going to do what he is doing today when he came out of Troy.

I think prior to the Senior Bowl, no one had even heard of Ware.

You just never know when it comes to players.

he does not have the physical gifts that Ware does.

[Gaede]

he does not have the physical gifts that Ware does.

Duh. Few do.

They're saying Ware and Mercilus might have the same intangibles, drive, hustle, and 'it' factor. That's something we can't watch in YT highlight. So I'll take the coaches word for it.

[InmanRoshi]

If the Bears don't end up with Malcolm Floyd, I think that's where he goes. Lovie Smith and Rod Marinelli both worked him out in person.

[Future]

Ware is going to destroy the sack record books... Hard to believe this kid will be on that level.
Not to be a jerk, but Ware is entering his 8th year and still needs another 100.5 sacks to catch Bruce Smith.

The odds are against him.

[InmanRoshi]

Not to be a jerk, but Ware is entering his 8th year and still needs another 100.5 sacks to catch Bruce Smith.

The odds are against him.


It just depends on how long he wants to play. He could follow the Jason Taylor mold of just being a part time nickel pass rusher and play well into his late 30s if that's what he wants to do. If he has 4 more prime years of 15+ sacks, and does that for another 3-4 years after that, he should break it.

[Oh_Canada]

Tap the brakes a little on this. Coaches are prone to hyperboly on their players.

Sorry I do not see in Merciless what Ware has. Not in the same class.

Guess everyone thought Ware was going to be Ware when he was drafted. Ware also never got 16 sacks in any college season playing against inferior teams.

[cowboy_ron]

Likely candidate for Dallas in a trade down? I love this guys length, athletic ability and his motor. I believe he has the highest ceiling of the pass rushers.
:eek:

[NeonDeion21]

:eek:

I'm going to have start saying the word "arm" a lot more.

[cowboy_ron]

I'm going to have start saying the word "arm" a lot more.
:laugh2: Just couldn't pass up the opportunity to mess with ya

[BIGDen]

IF Koenning is correct in his assessment of Mercilus, and our scouts see the same thing, then take him at 14. To get a player even comparable to Ware (one of the best EVER) @ 14 would be incredible. Personally, I am impressed with a guy who led the nation in sacks and is a hard-worker with the physical tools needed to succeed. His coaches comments (if they are not hyperbole) say everything you want to hear about a prospect. I am not concerned with the fact that he did it for just one year. He did it at a big program and it was the most recent year (unlike Coples who had a big year then dropped off). Some guys turn the corner/the light goes on and blow up like JPP did for the vagiants last year. Mercilus could be just hitting his stride. I think DeCastro and Cox are certainly safer picks and those guys would help this team, but I am really intrigued by this guy and hope we get him (preferrably in a trade down because it would mean we have another high pick).

[Eskimo]

IF Koenning is correct in his assessment of Mercilus, and our scouts see the same thing, then take him at 14. To get a player even comparable to Ware (one of the best EVER) @ 14 would be incredible. Personally, I am impressed with a guy who led the nation in sacks and is a hard-worker with the physical tools needed to succeed. His coaches comments (if they are not hyperbole) say everything you want to hear about a prospect. I am not concerned with the fact that he did it for just one year. He did it at a big program and it was the most recent year (unlike Coples who had a big year then dropped off). Some guys turn the corner/the light goes on and blow up like JPP did for the vagiants last year. Mercilus could be just hitting his stride. I think DeCastro and Cox are certainly safer picks and those guys would help this team, but I am really intrigued by this guy and hope we get him (preferrably in a trade down because it would mean we have another high pick).


Sometimes you get a good idea of what the draft board is like and what competitors want and whether a player is likely to slide. Then you can decide if you can safely slide down and still get your guy. If we can trade down for #14 and still get our target we really should because an extra premium pick will make a huge difference for our team because of several major holes in the roster - OLB, DE, OG and CB - need one of each. I'd also like a slot WR/PR. Furthermore, this is a good draft for it with great depth.

The thing about sliding back at OLB is there are several really good ones with late first round or early second round grades that I like - Branch, McClellin, Mercilus, Curry, Upshaw and Hightower. Then there is Bruce Irvin in the 3rd. So we certainly can trade down and get a very good OLB even if Mercilus is off the board.

BTW, I like the sentiment of the coach but as Burm has said we often hear this stuff and the next player amounts to nothing. I do love the kid's story and his work ethic and I also agree that his light just turned on this year both as a young man and as a football player. Everyone matures at a different rate and he has hit his stride now.

I guess I'd be okay with taking him at #14 if Ingram is gone and we don't think we can trade back and still get him (I do think he is a cut above the others as a pass rusher and you can't luck into 9 FF) but we should then start thinking about trading down from #45 to get an extra 3rd. We really need to take advantage of all the depth in this draft.

[xwalker]

Just for reference:

http://www.walker-texas.com/mercilus-ware-compare.jpg (http://www.walker-texas.com/mercilus-ware-compare.jpg)